The Rest Is Politics – Episode 470

China vs Japan, the BBC at Breaking Point, and The Future of Satire (Question Time)
Release: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart

Overview

This Question Time episode of The Rest Is Politics focuses on international flashpoints, the state of the BBC, democratic backsliding, and the role and fragility of satire in contemporary politics. Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart, with their trademark wit and candid disagreement, delve into pressing global and domestic issues: Japan's escalating row with China, the polarisation of Chilean politics, Israel and the collapsing two-state solution, the mounting pressures on the BBC, violence and populism in Latin America and Mexico, the future of satire, and how to educate young people for democracy in an era of fake news.

Key Segments and Discussion Points

1. Japan’s New Prime Minister, China, and Rising Asia-Pacific Tensions

[03:30 – 13:45]

• Catherine from Edinburgh's Question: Is Japan’s new PM provoking a crisis with China over Taiwan/Senkaku Islands for domestic purposes, or responding to legitimate threats? Can democracies deter aggression without succumbing to nationalism?
• Background:
  • Ms. Takaichi, Japan’s first female PM, likened to Thatcher or Liz Truss, is not from an elite samurai background, breaking the mold in Japanese politics ([04:05]).
  • She's closely linked to Shinzo Abe’s nationalism ([04:54]).
  • Her parliamentary comments indicated possible deployment of Japanese Self-Defense Forces if PRC aggression against Taiwan is seen as existential for Japan — an enormous escalation in Chinese eyes ([05:06]).
  • Historical context: Japan’s 1897 occupation of Taiwan, atrocities in Manchuria, and complicated post-war identity ([06:00]-[08:05]).
• Chinese Response:
  • Threatening — including a Consul General’s remark that Takaichi 'should have had her hair cut off' ([06:59]).
  • Military maneuvers and diplomatic protests followed ([09:25]).
• Impact of US Policy:
  • Trump’s tariffs and transactionalism undermine traditional US-led alliances against China, leaving Japan more economically vulnerable ([10:23]).
  • China weaponizes tourism as leverage; cessation of Chinese tourists could cripple Japanese cities like Kyoto ([11:28]).
• Internal Pressures in China:
  • Major purge underway at the top of China’s military — raising questions about whether a new, more nationalistic officer corps could accelerate conflict over Taiwan ([12:29]).
• Historical and Emotional Resonance:
  • The Japanese-Chinese relationship is likened to Russia-Poland for its depth of wounds ([12:29]).
  • Campbell: “It’s a tribute to restraint that we haven’t seen open conflict — we shouldn’t underestimate how serious this is.” ([13:46])
• Notable Quote:
  • Rory Stewart: “She is tapping into a surge of nationalism... Maybe that’s because Trump has introduced a form of politics where politicians feel they don’t need to watch their words so much; they can appeal to a domestic audience... without worrying about the international consequences.” ([08:05])

2. Democracy in Latin America: Chile’s Authoritarian Pendulum

[13:57 – 18:54]

• James Robertson (Bristol): How did Chile swing from progressive Borich to a presidential runoff between a communist and a Pinochet-admiring far-right candidate? Is this inevitable pendulum or a failure of progressives?
• Analysis:
  • Borich, initially radical left, governed pragmatically, reassured business, but couldn’t pass constitutional reform ([14:34]).
  • Current runoff between Comm. Jeanette Jarrah and far-right Jose Antonio Kast echoes return to an era of military rule.
  • Latin America’s volatility is more analogous to populist waves than 1930s Europe.
  • Re-emergence of nostalgia for authoritarian figures (Pinochet/Indonesia’s Suharto) — even in school curricula ([16:55]).
• Takeaway:
  • The region faces democratic backsliding, rising corruption, and external right-wing influences such as Trump’s support for authoritarians in the hemisphere.
• Notable Quote:
  • Rory Stewart: “What the whole world is becoming is Latin America… Latin America really shows us what populism looks like, what the lurch between the far left and the far right looks like, how democracies fray and collapse into these positions.” ([15:43])

3. Collapse of the Two-State Solution and Rising Violence in Israel/Palestine

[19:46 – 23:07]

• Nikaya from London: What diplomatic options remain as settler violence soars, and Israeli leaders openly discuss annexation?
• Current Landscape:
  • Israeli far-right ministers calling for executions of PA leaders; Netanyahu for the first time criticizes settler violence during olive harvest ([19:46]).
  • Russia and China abstain at UN, asking “where is the path to a two-state solution?” ([20:54]).
  • Campbell and Stewart cite Yuval Noah Harari’s FT piece on the intractable narratives that block empathy ([21:40]).
  • Netanyahu’s coalition with extremists emboldens settlers.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Alastair Campbell: “The numbers are going through the roof. So it’s not a good scene.” ([20:54])
  • Rory Stewart: “Will the IDF actually intervene on behalf of Palestinian communities if attacked by settlers? Generally, the story is the IDF takes the settlers’ side; there’s surprisingly little prosecution.” ([22:42])

4. The BBC at Breaking Point: Impartiality, Political Attacks, and Leadership

[30:10 – 37:22]

• Tim (West Sussex), James (New Zealand): With controversy around Trump video splicing, can we still trust BBC impartiality? What explains the endless attacks?
• Key Points:
  • Campbell: BBC remains far more trustworthy than most of the partisan press ([31:09]).
  • Murdoch/MAGA forces and right-wing press have vested interests in undermining a publicly-funded, universal, non-partisan BBC ([31:31]).
  • BBC’s structure (“left-wing” concept of license-fee funding) unattractive to market-driven moguls like Murdoch ([31:48]-[32:32]).
  • Increasingly, the BBC seems to pander defensively to its enemies rather than stand firm; leadership vacuum cited ([34:20]).
  • Proposals: Rory floats a citizens’ assembly to appoint the BBC’s board, lessening direct party-political influence ([36:15]).
• Notable Quotes:
  • Alastair Campbell: “The BBC is still way more trustworthy than these newspapers and GB News types.” ([31:09])
  • Rory Stewart: “I think we should get rid of the way the board is appointed… This could be a really good opportunity for a citizens’ assembly.” ([35:25])

5. Electrification, Clean Energy, and Britain’s Prospects

[25:39 – 29:41]

• Isaac Chapman’s Question: Given stalled continent-wide electrification, could Britain lead on clean energy?
  • Electrification rates in Europe are just 22%, much lower than China (30%) or the U.S.
  • Britain leads in offshore wind but network and infrastructure costs remain high.
  • Discussion of Europe's proposed tax on imported “embedded carbon,” and global pushback ([27:52]).
  • Hosts note that renewable cost per megawatt has plummeted, but network capacity is a challenge.
  • Campbell: “The costs have plummeted. Unbelievable. Far more than people like me anticipated.” ([27:32])

6. Mexico’s Deadly Violence and the Dismissal of Protest Movements

[37:22 – 39:58]

• Maria Gonzalez (Manchester): When does dismissing youth protests against cartel violence as 'orchestrated' foreign manipulation become dangerous? (Annual murders in Mexico: 30,000 vs UK’s <600.)
• Rory highlights scale and Sheinbaum’s left-wing populism—her government’s odd maneuvers in court appointments, security control rise, leading to discontent among centrist young people ([39:03]).
• Alastair’s take: anger at failures is genuine, but external manipulation overlays activism in a polarized media landscape ([38:21]).
• Trend: Gen Z mobilization globally, but many protest movements face both grassroots and outside manipulation.

7. Ongoing Democratic Backsliding: Bangladesh Example

[40:30 – 41:18]

• Brief discussion of the sentencing to death of ex-PM Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh. High-profile case with UK resonance, raising questions about the fragility of democratic gains.

8. The Role and Future of Satire in Politics

[41:18 – 45:46]

• Listener video from impersonator John Tot: “How does it feel to be impersonated and what is the role of satire today?” ([41:42])
• Campbell relishes satire — “I love The Thick of It,” references classic impersonations and how they permeate into public assumptions ([42:16]).
• Stewart points out the challenge for satirists when reality outpaces exaggeration—“When you’ve got Marjorie Taylor Greene saying Rothschilds are firing space lasers… if [Rory Bremner] makes Trump say something preposterous, people will be like, well, did he say that or didn’t he?” ([43:16])
• Social media now blurs lines between satire and fake news; concern that irony is misread or weaponized as disinformation.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Rory Stewart: “How do people know when you’re making a funny joke about an excess or making a serious point? Maybe we have to label satire.” ([45:32])
  • Alastair Campbell: “I’m amazed at how often I’ll post something clearly ironic and yet it gets taken at face value. Maybe that is mainly the bots—maybe the bots can’t read humor.” ([45:46])

9. Democracy, Fake News, and Voting Age Debate

[46:15 – End]

• Campbell plugs “Big Democracy Lesson” by Young Citizens, highlighting the need for civic education as ever-younger voters enter the franchise ([45:45]).
• Discusses the risks of misinformation: “98% of 12-year-olds in Britain could not tell the difference between something true and something that wasn’t” ([46:38]).
• Rory pushes back, worried about extending the vote further, given young people's susceptibility to extremes (statistic: 18-30 is most attracted to authoritarianism) ([47:44]).
• Campbell insists on the value of educating the young, arguing, “I have better debates in schools than I do with most adults… You need to know more. Develop your own thoughts” ([47:11]).
• Ends on a good-tempered disagreement, signaling the show’s spirit of disagreeing agreeably ([49:12]).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “She is tapping into a surge of nationalism... Maybe that's because Trump has introduced a form of politics where politicians feel they don’t need to watch their words so much; they can appeal to a domestic audience without worrying about the international consequences.” – Rory Stewart ([08:05])
• “What the whole world is becoming is Latin America… Latin America shows us what populism looks like, what the lurch between the far left and the far right looks like, how democracies fray and collapse.” – Rory Stewart ([15:43])
• “The BBC is still way more trustworthy than these newspapers and GB News types.” – Alastair Campbell ([31:09])
• “How do people know when you’re making a funny joke about an excess or making a serious point? Maybe we have to label satire.” – Rory Stewart ([45:32])
• “98% of 12-year-olds … could not tell the difference between something that was true and something that wasn’t.” – Alastair Campbell ([46:38])

Episode Flow & Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Japan-China Tensions | New Japanese PM, her rhetoric, Chinese response, US policy| [03:30-13:45]| | Chile’s Political Pendulum | Borich, new runoff, Latin American populism | [13:57-18:54]| | Israel/Palestine | Settler violence, collapsed peace prospects | [19:46-23:07]| | BBC in Crisis | Impartiality, Murdoch, citizens’ assembly idea | [30:10-37:22]| | Clean Energy & Electrification | UK/eurogrid, renewables, carbon tax debate | [25:39-29:41]| | Mexico’s Murders | Youth protests, populist response | [37:22-39:58]| | Bangladesh Sentencing | Hasina’s death sentence | [40:30-41:18]| | Satire in Politics | Impersonation, satire, fake news | [41:18-45:46]| | Democracy, Fake News & Voting Age | Educating youth, age-of-vote disagreement | [46:15-End] |

Tone and Language

The episode is lively, candid, and often self-deprecating—reflecting Campbell and Stewart’s willingness to challenge each other and themselves. They combine in-depth analysis with humor (especially on media and impersonations), and their sparring on issues like the voting age rounds out the show’s commitment to thoughtful, “agreeable disagreement” on all things politics.

For First-Time Listeners

This summary captures the episode’s main content, providing context for global stories that might otherwise slip by in British media. It showcases the podcast’s blend of insider knowledge, reasoned opinion—and the odd affectionate dig—offering a nuanced take on politics at home and abroad.