The Rest Is Politics – Episode 473

"Europe vs. Trump: Competing Visions for a Ukraine Peace Deal (Question Time)"

Date: November 26, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart

Episode Overview

In this Question Time edition, Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart unpack major international developments, focusing on the shifting dynamics around the Ukraine war, competing peace proposals from Europe and Trump’s America, the effectiveness of global summits absent US leadership, and the far-reaching implications of foreign influence in UK politics. The episode also tackles the West Bank's intensifying economic emergency, Addiction Awareness Week, and the challenges facing the BBC.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Europe, Trump, and the Ukraine Peace Deal

([03:39]–[17:38])

• Dueling Plans for Ukraine:
  The hosts compare the US-Russian 28-point draft for a Ukraine peace settlement with Europe's counter-proposal. Campbell details key differences:

  • The US draft includes soft language on Ukrainian sovereignty, NATO expansion, troop limits, and mediation by the US.
  • The EU revision toughens language: sovereignty is “reconfirmed” (never in doubt), troop caps are higher, ambiguous language is removed, and robust—not just "reliable"—guarantees are promised.
  • Quotes Campbell: "What struck me was the extent to which, if the Americans really were serious... this would have been the paper in the first place." ([06:20])

• America’s Unreliability and Europe’s Delusions:
  Stewart cautions about Europe’s ongoing denial regarding Trump’s true positioning:

  • "Europeans keep deluding themselves... that America’s basically on Europe’s side against Russia... but by now they should be beginning to realize... that these two different documents show two completely different worldviews." ([06:48])
  • Trump’s view aligns with Putin, believing Ukraine is “naturally part of Russia,” and NATO’s expansion provoked Moscow.

• Strategic Errors and Missed Opportunities:
  Both lament Europe’s inaction, misallocation of resources, and strategic dependence on US support:

  • Europe should have independently ramped up defence and support for Ukraine long ago ([10:33]).
  • "Ukraine has been firing a lot of American missiles, which it probably would have kept in reserve if it had known that the US was going to stop the future weapons supply." —Stewart ([11:27])
  • They agree Europe must now recognize Trump’s unreliability and prepare for US disengagement.

• Memorable Analogy:
  Stewart: "It would be like... going out for the night and putting my young child in charge of my house... I'm going to disable the alarm. I'm going to hand a pep astray to the person who's coming in through the door. Farewell. See you later." ([15:03])

2. Can Global Summits Succeed Without the US?

([17:38]–[29:34])

• G20, COP, and the “Multilateral Vacuum”:
  The hosts review recent summits (G20 in Johannesburg, COP in Brazil) in the shadow of Trump’s US withdrawal.

  • Stewart: The postwar multilateral system was created and sustained by the US. Its absence threatens the entire architecture: "When the United States is removed... the basic heart and engine of multilateralism collapses." ([18:06])

• Mixed Impact:

  • Campbell notes that European and “like-minded” countries must fill the vacuum and forge new agendas, especially as China and Russia court Africa and the Global South ([20:52]).
  • Despite US withdrawal, some diplomatic progress continues—summits matter more than ever for smaller states, and symbolic outcomes (protests at G20, for example) can have real local impact ([24:38]).

• Climate Deadlock:

  • On COP, Stewart notes: "80 countries sign up to a roadmap to phase out fossil fuels and 80 countries reject it." ([26:19])
  • Europe shows relative leadership but without robust US commitments, global progress is slow or stalled.
  • Stewart laments worsening global inequality and ineffective panels unable to address rising poverty ([28:17]), and questions whether long-held UN ideals mean anything in the new world order.

3. Russian Influence, the Far Right, and UK Politics

([29:34]–[42:56])

• The Nathan Gill Scandal:
  Triggered by a listener’s question, the hosts are indignant about the muted coverage of Nathan Gill’s conviction for accepting Russian money to promote pro-Kremlin messaging in the European Parliament.

  • Campbell: "Nathan Gill should by now be a household name on a par with the spies of the past... That is a total chronic failure... of our media." ([30:27])
  • Stewart outlines Gill’s trajectory from UKIP to Reform UK and his “astonishingly cheap” price—*“£5,000 at a time”—*for political influence ([31:48]).

• Broader Threats and Systemic Corruption:

  • Stewart: "Is it actually plausible that there was only one involved?" Calls for wider investigations as other MEPs made near-identical speeches.
  • The issue extends beyond Russia; Gulf states, Azerbaijan, and “the American private sector” all have means to influence MPs, sometimes subtly (advisory contracts, paid trips, future jobs) ([37:44]).

• Failures of Political and Media Accountability:

  • Campbell: "Honestly. If I were the Labour government right now, I would publish all the stuff that came out during the Brexit referendum. I would have a major inquiry into Russian interference..." ([33:37])
  • The current political climate allows allegations of foreign influence to be brushed aside, while trivial matters dominate headlines.

• Russia’s Long Game:

  • Stewart references Chekhovstov’s work on Russia’s deliberate destabilization of Western democracies via support for far-right movements:
    "There will be hundreds of Russian intelligence officers... to shape the space... against liberal democracy, against NATO, against the European Union." ([41:16])
  • Concern is voiced that MPs’ reluctance to address this may stem from their own “guilty conscience” over foreign-funded perks.

4. The West Bank’s Collapsing Economy

([54:51]–[60:54])

• Severe Economic Crisis:
  The West Bank’s economy is unraveling due to Israeli-imposed financial strangleholds post-October 7:
  • Withheld import taxes, new surcharges, blocked remittances, and a threat to indemnity for Palestinian banks has triggered a 2.5 billion deficit, making it nearly impossible for the PA to pay public sector wages or provide services ([55:35]–[58:28]).
  • 240,000 Palestinians previously working in Israel are now jobless due to border closures.
  • The situation is described as “economic warfare,” risking collapse of the PA, as warned by the World Bank ([58:02]).
  • Stewart: "If there's no economy in the West Bank... those millions of Palestinians... can't function at all." ([59:37])

5. Addiction Awareness & Society’s Blind Spot

([60:54]–[67:24])

• Addiction’s True Cost:
  Prompted by Joe Wolff’s question, Campbell echoes the view that addiction is central to the business model for industries from tobacco and alcohol to gambling and social media.

• Personal Story – “The Conversation That Changed Everything”:

  • Campbell movingly recounts the moment a counselor gently helped him realize the grip alcohol had on his life ([63:00]–[67:24]).
  • "He kind of opened it up... I honestly think that conversation saved my life." ([66:40])
  • Both hosts praise Princess of Wales’ involvement in awareness campaigns, noting that destigmatizing addiction through public storytelling is crucial for societal progress and individual recovery.

6. Other Topics: BBC, UK Parliament, and Leadership

([50:08]–[54:51])

• BBC’s Leadership and Parliamentary Committees:
  Campbell and Stewart discuss the current crisis of confidence at the BBC, with Campbell highlighting the toothlessness of select committees and the growing difficulty of appointing non-partisan leadership ([51:35]–[54:51]).

• Parliamentary (Un)Professionalism:
  Stewart: US Senate hearings are far more rigorous than UK select committees, many MPs lack training, and witnesses can easily flatter their way through without real scrutiny.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stewart on divergent US/EU Russia views:
  "These two different documents show two completely different worldviews." ([06:53])

• Campbell on urgency of Europe’s response:
  "We have reached this point of saying that Trump is a deeply unreliable ally..." ([09:46])

• Stewart’s analogy about US “abandoning” Europe:
  "I'm going to disable the alarm. I'm going to hand a pep astray to the person who's coming in through the door. Farewell. See you later." ([15:03])

• Campbell on the media’s “total chronic failure” over Nathan Gill:
  "I've been doing events and saying, who here has heard of Nathan Gill?... we're still talking single figures." ([30:27])

• Stewart on Russian influence operations:
  "The difference between us and the British is that we're not fundamentally an intelligence gathering organization. We're fundamentally about destabilizing and shaping other people's politics..." ([41:16])

• On addiction and recovery:
  Campbell, narrating his “conversation that changed everything” ([63:00]–[67:24]):

  "I said, No, I've had a breakdown, I was hearing voices... And then as I got through to about 11:20, went to the Lord High Admiral pub... had lunch with David Mellor... Suddenly, this very, very large penny dropped."

• Stewart on progress:
  "Maybe the biggest ever human achievement isn’t one invention or moment... it is... the way we keep moving forward together." ([49:30])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ukraine, Trump & Europe: Competing Peace Plans: [03:39]–[17:38]
• Effectiveness of G20, COP and global summits without US: [17:38]–[29:34]
• Russian (and other) Foreign Influence in UK Politics, Nathan Gill case: [29:34]–[42:56]
• West Bank economic collapse: [54:51]–[60:54]
• Addiction Awareness Week & Alastair Campbell’s personal story: [60:54]–[67:24]
• BBC, select committees and parliamentary professionalism: [50:08]–[54:51]

Tone & Style

• The episode maintains an urgent, candid, and often frustrated tone regarding the state of Western politics and international institutions, with both hosts melding their political experience with blunt, sometimes darkly comic, observations.
• They blend serious, sometimes personal testimony (Campbell on addiction) with policy analysis and sharp critique of media and political failings, always circling back to themes of public responsibility and the cost of delusion.

For Further Engagement

• Newsletter sign-up and exclusive content: therestispolitics.com
• Addiction Awareness Week – “Conversation That Changed Everything”: #Letstalkaddiction, mention @ForwardTrust

Final Takeaway

Europe stands at a crossroads: the era of relying on American stewardship—especially under Trump—is over. On Ukraine, the climate, or safeguarding democracy, only clear-eyed leadership, self-reliance, and public vigilance will hold the line. Failure to adapt—to foreign manipulation, to economic warfare, to addiction—brings grave consequences. As Campbell and Stewart repeatedly urge: "We can't give up now." ([29:34])