The Rest Is Politics – Episode 476: Polanski’s Problem, Westminster’s Russia Blind Spot, and Justice Without Juries? (Question Time)

Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart
Main Theme:
Campbell and Stewart take listeners’ questions on the week's most controversial and under-reported stories: the Green Party’s shift under Zac Polanski, the confusing rise of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) on the left, challenges to Labour from new Corbynite parties, Russian influence in Westminster, the lack of jury trials in UK justice reform, climate change’s mounting toll, and peculiarities of British political coverage. The hallmark "agreeable disagreement" is warmly on display as they probe the big issues dividing and uniting the UK’s political landscape.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Zac Polanski, the Green Party, and Economic Credibility

[04:11–13:02]

• Polanski, new leader of the Greens, has pushed the party’s poll numbers up to nearly 20%, pivoting away from traditional Green issues to bold economic policies.
• Rory critiques his lack of grasp on economic fundamentals during their interview:

  “He was asked what the top rate of tax was, and he didn’t know that the top rate of tax was 45%. ... He didn’t know how much we’re paying in interest, which is £100 billion a year… If you’re going to sell people on saying, we’re going to do something that basically no government has done in Britain ever… you better have your figures right.” — Rory Stewart [08:26]

• Listener feedback surprisingly leaned positive (60%), but Campbell notes Polanski “could do with trying to slow down the way he speaks… answers weren’t good enough. They’ve got to get better answers.” [07:04–13:02]
• Notable moment: Polanski confuses deficit and debt, cannot answer basic economic figures, but maintains likeability and social media skill.

2. Modern Monetary Theory and Populism on the Left

[13:02–21:35]

• Chris Williamson submits a challenge on MMT, arguing government debt is misunderstood.
• Rory explains MMT: Government can "create money," taxes and bonds "come later," but this doesn’t mean there are no consequences.
• MMT’s complexity is a strategic asset for populist parties: “A brilliant trick for the populist left to pull off because it sounds on the surface as though they’ve got these kind of brilliant technical arguments which basically amount to, say, you don't need to worry about the debt and deficit.” — Rory Stewart [14:43]
• Alastair reflects: “His people would say, that’s because you don’t understand the way the economy works… What you’re saying is, it doesn’t matter how much we borrow; answer was, we don’t need to borrow. So what we do then is print money? We don’t need to print money. Well, I don't quite understand…” [16:29]
• Core issue: Economic debate should focus less on technicalities, more on the desired size and role of government.

3. The Fragmenting Left: Corbyn, Sultana, and Labour’s Challenge

[23:06–29:52]

• New “Your Party” of Corbyn and Sultana struggles with infighting, “fiasco” of a launch, and old-school leftist caricature.
• Campbell: “There are clearly pretty profound divisions on organization, in particular between Corbyn and Sultana… It did feel very backward looking.” [24:25]
• Stewart links this to economic debates: A “huge space now in the left of British politics which Labour isn’t feeding … vulnerable to Corbyn and Polanski."
• Humorous moment: Corbyn and Len McCluskey heckled as “an MI5 plant” at a poetry reading. [29:52]

4. Westminster’s Blind Spot: Russian Influence, Lobbying, and Media Failures

[33:29–42:13]

• Listener question highlights lack of scrutiny of Reform Party’s Russian ties.
• Stewart notes MPs’ trips funded by questionable foreign sources; some have gone down over odd connections.
• Campbell recommends “Sergey and the Westminster Spy Ring” podcast for deeper context and is troubled that serious allegations “haven’t been properly looked at” by the mainstream media.
• Campbell claims, “Why doesn’t the government announce an inquiry into this stuff? There is so much stuff right across Whitehall.” [35:13]
• The media avoids tough probing, sometimes for commercial reasons: “What Farage was doing is saying to the papers, listen, loads more where this [ad spending] came from… So they went easy.” — Alastair Campbell [37:12]
• Stewart warns of a general “conflict of interest” crisis in UK, US, and Europe, using examples from Trump to AI lobbying. [38:49]

5. Media Neglects Climate Crisis and Asia Floods

[42:13–47:31]

• Campbell laments the absence of mainstream coverage on a major national climate emergency briefing:

  “We don't really have a serious media anymore... dumbing down, numbing down, dumbing down.” [43:11]

• Listener Alan, in flood-ravaged Thailand, asks why countries should even bother with G20 led by climate deniers.
• Stewart summarizes devastating toll: "502 people killed in Indonesia, 355 in Sri Lanka... this is connected to the fact that the world is getting warmer." [44:11]
• Both agree that water—flooding and drought—will be the frontline of climate impact.
• Tension in Ethiopia-Egypt relations over the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam underscores how climate and water security will generate geopolitical flashpoints.

6. Justice Reform: Government Moves to Limit Jury Trials

[47:31–58:43]

• New government proposals would restrict jury trials to cases that carry sentences of over 3 years.
• Stewart is outright opposed:

  "Trial by jury is the most miraculous, wonderful thing that we have in this country... The answer is not to abolish the jury system." [48:48]

• Campbell sympathizes with backlog and collapse of the courts but worries about impact on victims and risk of justice being delayed/denied.
• Stewart argues the underlying problem is austerity—system is crumbling for lack of investment—“but... the solution is more money, not abolishing the jury system.” [51:27]
• Discussion touches on tradeoffs in public spending, Stewart's priorities: "If you had to make me choose, would I choose to save the trial by jury system and sacrifice the other things? I'd keep the trial by jury system." [52:49]

7. Notable Moment: The “Secret Plot” to Rejoin the Customs Union

[59:49–62:54]

• The Telegraph accuses Campbell of a “secret plot” to re-enter the UK into the Customs Union with Tim Allen and Tom Baldwin.
• Both hosts mock the idea of secrecy. Campbell: “There was literally nothing in the story. I wish there was a plot. Maybe there should be a not so secret plot.” [61:48]
• Listeners offer donations to the supposed campaign. “No, George, I’m not secretly plotting. I am openly campaigning.” — Alastair Campbell [62:50]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Polanski’s Economic Literacy:
  “If you’re going to sell radical economic transformation, you better have your figures right.”—Rory Stewart [08:26]
• Populism and Economic Complexity:
  “This is a different form of populism: highly technical arguments... but misleading implication there’s a complete set of options available which will transform the economy.”—Rory Stewart [14:43]
• Media and Russian Influence:
  “Why doesn’t the government announce an inquiry into this stuff? There is so much stuff right across Whitehall.”—Alastair Campbell [35:13]
• The Value of Jury Trials:
  “Trial by jury is the most miraculous, wonderful thing… You cannot seriously be saying that our courts are in such a state that with money, focus, energy, you can’t get those lists down.”—Rory Stewart [48:48; 56:11]
• Dumbing Down and Climate:
  “We don't really have a serious media anymore… dumbing down, numbing down, dumbing down.”—Alastair Campbell [43:11]
• Open Campaigning on Europe:
  “No, George, I’m not secretly plotting. I am openly campaigning.”—Alastair Campbell [62:50]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:11] – Critique of Zac Polanski’s economic answers
• [13:02] – Listener question on Modern Monetary Theory and economic populism
• [23:06] – New Corbyn-Sultana party and left wing fractiousness
• [33:29] – Russian influence in Westminster, media’s blind spot
• [42:13] – Climate change, flood disasters in South Asia, media neglect
• [47:31] – Debate on proposed abolition of jury trials for lower sentences
• [59:49] – The "secret plot" to rejoin the Customs Union; media construction of stories

Tone and Style

• The conversation flows with a blend of informed debate, wit, and the hosts’ signature “agreeable disagreement.”
• Both hosts offer candid insights, critique their own parties and the press, and pepper the discussion with sharp asides and personal anecdotes.

To Sum Up

This episode delves into the turbulent currents running beneath British and international politics, from the Green Party’s growing pains and far left economics to Westminster’s “Russia problem,” media failures on climate coverage, the core values of justice, and the enduring hope (and farce) of European re-entry campaigns. With quick repartee and deep dives into policy, Campbell and Stewart model how to disagree agreeably—and make political argument engaging, even when the news itself rarely is.