Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Politics, Episode 487

Title: Is Starmer Rethinking His Approach to Europe? (Question Time)
Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts: Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart

Episode Overview

In this incisive episode of The Rest Is Politics, Campbell and Stewart field audience questions on the major political issues of the moment. They debate Keir Starmer's shifting stance on Europe and Labour's political strategy, dissect the political fallout from the Bondi Beach terror attack in Australia, reflect on the risks and realities of AI progress, discuss the optics of a senior lawyer representing sanctioned oligarch Roman Abramovich, and offer a behind-the-scenes look at how journalists choose stories from newly-released National Archives. As ever, the hosts disagree agreeably, blending expertise, candor, and wit.

Key Discussion Points

1. Is Starmer Rethinking His Approach to Europe? (01:49–08:15)

Context

• Labour leader Keir Starmer's recent BBC interview suggested moving closer to the EU but avoided full-throated advocacy for single market or customs union return.
• Labour figures like Wes Streeting and David Lammy have pushed for a closer EU relationship.

Analysis

• Campbell: Summarizes Starmer’s statements: Not calling for single market re-entry, but for deepening cooperation—leading right-wing press to decry a "Brexit betrayal."

  "I wish." (on press claims of a Brexit betrayal, 03:18)

• Stewart: Breaks down the difference between the customs union (trade-focused, no free movement) and the single market (includes free movement). Calls the Customs Union more politically feasible.

  "Single market is probably tougher for Keir Starmer to sell because the free movement of people bit is the bit..." (04:10)

• Campbell & Stewart: Debate whether Labour should chase a "wow moment" by campaigning to rejoin the EU, citing Peter Kellner’s analysis: Labour’s ratings are flat; they need boldness to shift the narrative.

  "Brexit has been catastrophic economically, strategically, politically, and actually, over time, my big legacy is I’m gonna take us back in." (Campbell, 05:32) "You’re doomed anyway if you continue in the current way you are." (Stewart, 06:14)

• Strategic Risks: Stewart points out the potential loss of "Red Wall" voters and the challenge of shifting Labour’s electoral coalition.

Notable Quotes

• "They’re going to need something pretty big." (Stewart, 07:35)
• "We’ve got to be fighting for big things." (Campbell, 05:50)

2. Australia’s Terror Attack and Albanese’s Leadership (08:16–18:59)

Context

• Bondi Beach terror attack provokes public outcry; PM Albanese resists calls for a Royal Commission amid accusations he bears responsibility.

Analysis

• Stewart: Details criticism from the Australian Jewish community and media for Albanese’s handling and alleged lack of action against antisemitism and radicalization.

  "This is now the rawest, most contentious issue, I’d say, in Australian politics." (08:47) "Albanese’s response seemed a bit more wooden…" (09:36)

• Campbell: Questions necessity and effectiveness of a Royal Commission; argues a review into the intelligence services is already underway, and scapegoating the PM is "completely unreasonable."

  "I just think that’s completely unreasonable." (12:40)

• Stewart: Predicts Albanese will ultimately call for a commission, citing public and political pressure; draws parallel to the 9/11 Commission’s value in the US.

  "Why not have a Royal Commission? Everybody’s asking for a Royal Commission. I predict here on the show Albanese will agree within the next week…" (11:05)

• The hosts agree emotionally-charged criticism often oversimplifies cause and blame.

Notable Quotes

• "The blood is on your hands—I just think that’s completely unreasonable." (Campbell, 12:40)
• "I don't think you’re really convincing me and I suspect you’re probably not convincing most listeners why they’re not having a Royal Commission." (Stewart, 13:00)
• "Do most of our listeners even know what a Royal Commission is?" (Campbell, 13:33)
• "The Jewish community in Australia has a higher Holocaust survivor population than any outside Israel." (Stewart, 17:52)

3. Political and Ethical Dilemmas of AI Development (20:34–29:00)

Context

• Stewart’s AI miniseries (exclusive to subscribers) covers risks, ethics, and global competition in artificial intelligence; listener asks about declining debate in schools.

Insights

• Campbell: Praises miniseries for making AI accessible and asks about kids’ disengagement.
• Stewart: Expresses deep concern at big tech leaders (Musk, Altman) warning of extinction risks—while still racing to build AGI.

  "Elon Musk, Sam Altman…on record…they are seriously worried that artificial general intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity…they’re all running companies which are racing to build this thing." (Stewart, 21:55)

• Campbell: Wonders if people just feel numb and powerless regarding AI warnings.
• Stewart: Argues AGI could literally be stopped—if world leaders wanted—because it’s concentrated in a handful of huge data centers.

  "If Trump and Xi Jinping wanted, they could shut it down." (Stewart, 25:10)

• AI’s Dystopian Potential: Discusses the threat of AI-induced unemployment, misinformation, and existential risk—most leaders are "techno-optimists" who may not fully grasp the risks.

  "The problem is that somebody like me who’s grumbling about this is increasingly being excluded from meetings... who now call me a Luddite." (Stewart, 26:35)

• Political Response: Notes Sunak and some Labour figures are engaged, but there’s limited broad political debate or public engagement in the UK.

Notable Quotes

• "I think that AI will probably most likely lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there will be great companies created." (Stewart quoting Altman, 24:27)
• "Election campaigns are still run as though they were happening in the 1980s." (Stewart, 28:14)

4. Lord Wolfson, the Tories, and the Abramovich Question (29:00–35:13)

Context

• Lord Wolfson, Tory Shadow Attorney General, represents sanctioned oligarch Roman Abramovich in a case about frozen Chelsea sale funds meant for Ukrainian war victims.

Analysis

• Campbell: Questions political optics and appropriateness of Wolfson’s involvement, even if legally permissible.

  "I think it is very, very weird." (Campbell, 34:05)

• Stewart: Suggests Wolfson’s defense would be the "cab rank" principle (lawyers can’t refuse cases).

  "It’s probably unwise. I mean, it looks pretty peculiar..." (Stewart, 33:32)

• Both agree: The principle generally holds, but the politics in this case are "ugly," especially for somebody poised to be Attorney General.

Notable Quotes

• "But, but in general… it’s not fair to attack lawyers for who they happen to be defending or representing." (Stewart, 34:39)
• "This guy would be part of a government. So I think this is in many ways a lot worse." (Campbell, 34:47)

5. National Archives: How Journalists Pick Stories from the Files (35:13–41:18)

Context

• 600 files from the Blair era released; various news outlets focused on different stories from the same batch (Blair’s slow-clapped WI speech, Zimbabwe, Iraq).

Insights

• Campbell: Recounts behind-the-scenes drama over Blair’s unpopular Women's Institute speech (he advised against it). Explains how hundreds of documents get released—most journalists rely on the Press Association’s triage.

  "I'm really, really worried about this speech. You’re sounding like John Major…" (Campbell, 36:12)

• Stewart: Notes Al Jazeera and others focused on Iraq war allegations; draws attention to how different media priorities shape coverage.

  "A more controversial one… is what Al Jazeera picked up on, which is Blair seemed to be resisting… a big investigation into allegations of British soldiers conducting atrocities in Iraq." (Stewart, 39:05)

• Campbell: Observes that FOI and archives mean this material always comes to light eventually—journalists choose what’s "newsworthy" based on audience, contemporary relevance, and time pressures.

Notable Quotes

• "These meetings get recorded and then out they go… big decisions, all the internal correspondence… we always assumed this stuff’s going to come out at some point anyway." (Campbell, 39:30)
• "There's a whole kind of system where… the Press Association go in there, they sit down… they put out loads of stories and then the papers… make their take their pick." (Campbell, 40:45)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• "You’re doomed anyway if you continue in the current way you are."
  (Rory Stewart, 06:14, on Labour’s need for a bold European policy)

• "The blood is on your hands—I just think that’s completely unreasonable."
  (Alastair Campbell, 12:40, critiquing attacks on Albanese)

• "I think that AI will probably most likely lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there will be great companies created."
  (Sam Altman via Stewart, 24:27, on the mad logic of AI entrepreneurs)

• "This guy would be part of a government. So I think this is in many ways a lot worse."
  (Campbell, 34:47, on Lord Wolfson’s representation of Abramovich)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:49–08:15 — Starmer’s EU strategy and Labour’s dilemma
• 08:16–18:59 — Bondi Beach attack & Royal Commission debate
• 20:34–29:00 — AI miniseries, risks, politics, and public understanding
• 29:00–35:13 — Tory Shadow Attorney General, Roman Abramovich, and legal ethics
• 35:13–41:18 — National Archives files and media selection bias

Overall Tone

The episode is characterized by candid, nuanced debate, mixing political realism, dry humor, and insidery perspectives. Campbell is energetic, combative, but thoughtful; Stewart is reflective, sometimes wry, playing devil’s advocate and bringing global comparisons and historical context.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of The Rest Is Politics offers sharp, informed takes on Labour’s post-Brexit navigation, leadership during tragic events, the real (and existential) politics of AI, legal ethics in the era of oligarch sanctions, and how front-page stories are made from government archives. If you want to understand how political strategy, public emotion, media narratives, and technological risk interlock in today’s politics—with the benefit of two Westminster insiders’ insight—this is a must-listen (or read!).