The Monster He Made: Murdoch, Trump, and the Price of Power (Part 4)

Summary

The Rest Is Politics

Episode: The Monster He Made: Murdoch, Trump, and the Price of Power

Date: November 3, 2025

Hosts: Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart

Guest: Michael Wolff (Author, Media Commentator)

---

Overview

In this episode, Campbell and Stewart continue their deep dive into Rupert Murdoch’s legacy, focusing especially on his reign over the American media landscape via Fox News, the channel's explosive impact on U.S. politics, and its key role in facilitating Donald Trump’s rise. They examine Murdoch’s entrepreneurial style, his complicated relationships with lieutenants like Roger Ailes, his children, and U.S. political figures—unpacking the price Murdoch’s pursuit of power has exacted on politics and society. The episode features a rich, insider conversation with Michael Wolff, author and seasoned observer of Murdoch and his empire.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Murdoch’s Mastery: Illusionist and Endurer

• Illusion and Entrepreneurship

  • The episode opens with a discussion of Murdoch’s “master illusionist” quality—a capacity not just to project, but to drive belief and action even before he delivers (01:02).
  • Quote:
    • Michael Wolff: “It’s the essential entrepreneurial skill to convince people you are what you have yet to become.” (01:06)

• Means Justify the Ends

  • Murdoch is portrayed as unstoppable, willing to overpay for major prizes like The Wall Street Journal purely for influence and legacy, regardless of financial wisdom.
  • He bought the Wall Street Journal at triple its value (02:35), leading to a massive write-down within 18 months.

• Not Just About Money

  • Murdoch’s acquisitions are discussed as not merely commercial, but strategic—ways to gain “command of a political space” (03:07).

---

Fox News: The Murdoch-Ailes Dynamic

• Creating Fox News: Out of Spite, Not Strategy

  • After failing to acquire CNN in the mid-90s, Murdoch’s “knee jerk” impulse was to build his own 24/7 news network, hiring Roger Ailes—a well-known TV exec with deep right-wing credentials, fired for an anti-Semitic remark (05:32).

• Ailes’ Carte Blanche and Newsroom Culture

  • Ailes is given full editorial freedom (“carte blanche”) and rapidly shapes Fox into a tabloid, agenda-driven platform—a style of television journalism Murdoch neither understands nor particularly cares for, but values for its profitability.
  • Quote:
    • Michael Wolff: “[Murdoch’s] only interest in television is that it make money for him.” (07:25)
    • Andrew Neil: “It makes its bones on Clinton, Monica Lewinsky...the tabloid culture comes out in a television news product.” (06:26)

• Murdoch’s Detachment

  • Murdoch is largely indifferent to Fox News itself and uninterested in interfering with Ailes’ direction so long as the network’s cash flow is strong (08:11).
  • He finds Fox “low-rent” but remains pleased that it “starts to get numbers” and requires little attention.

• Ailes as the Power Behind the Throne

  • The power dynamic is clear: “Ailes creates this fiefdom which only he controls. All of the people at Fox are loyal to Ailes. They’re not loyal to Murdoch. Murdoch is just a remote, unpleasant cloud somewhere out there.” (17:08, 17:45)
  • This leads Murdoch to feel a painful disconnection from his own “news accomplishment”—Fox News—which he can’t truly claim as his own (15:00).

---

The Politics of Fox News and Polarization

• Shift toward Aggression and Toxicity

  • Fox transforms from a tabloid news outlet to an aggressive political force, especially after the Obama election (2008), when the Murdoch family actually supported Obama—but Ailes’ Fox doubled down as opponents (09:46-13:17).
  • Memorable Moment:
    • When Obama finally meets Murdoch (and then Ailes), Obama “rips him apart—you’ve accused me of being a Muslim. Just a full, full-force attack.” (11:24)

• Fox as Cultural Engine

  • Fox News is said to create a new, right-wing, nationalist, and xenophobic “catechism”—its constant messaging drills a worldview into a loyal audience, creating “a cult.” (17:56-18:29)
    • Quote:
      • Michael Wolff: “It becomes elemental. It teaches a whole population of the country a new catechism...it’s propagandized by Fox. The repetitions of Fox drill it into the heads of people who become only Fox listeners. It becomes cult-like.” (17:56)

• Conflict with the Murdoch Family

  • Murdoch’s children (Lachlan, James, Elizabeth) and their circle are publicly ashamed of Fox News’ toxic influence—Matthew Freud (Elizabeth’s husband) issues a statement attacking Ailes and Fox for sustained journalistic disregard (19:37).
    • Quote:
      • Matthew Freud via NYT: “I am by no means alone within the family or the company in being ashamed and sickened by Roger Ailes’ horrendous and sustained disregard of journalistic standards.” (19:37)

• Ailes’ Resentment and Power Play

  • Ailes sees not just liberals, but the Murdoch children, as enemies. When threatened by their criticism, he leverages his indispensable status to force Murdoch to renew his contract on better terms (20:28).
  • The children, sidelined, “stew,” with the family’s internal divisions worsening (20:32-20:41).

---

Succession, Internal Conflict, and the Price of Power

• Succession Crisis

  • Ailes forces Murdoch to choose between trusted lieutenants and his son Lachlan, effectively pushing Lachlan out for a time (14:16-14:37).
  • Ailes undermines the family—he spreads rumors about Murdoch’s children, highlighting a toxic, profoudly homophobic workplace culture (14:49-14:54).

• Murdoch’s Private Pain

  • There’s exploration of Murdoch’s emotional response to having lost control of Fox News and the credit for its success: “Is Fox News, and he has nothing to do with it...it is Roger Ailes creation.” (15:00)
  • On Murdoch’s personal life: his third marriage unravels, partly due to rumors of infidelity involving Tony Blair—contradicting the expectation that Murdoch’s private life would be less dramatic than his public one (20:41-21:39).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (Timestamps)

• On Entrepreneurship and Illusion

  • Michael Wolff: “It’s the essential entrepreneurial skill to convince people you are what you have yet to become.” (01:06)

• On Murdoch’s Grit

  • Michael Wolff: “He just sits there until it gets done. He never gives up.” (01:51)

• On Roger Ailes’ Genius and Cynicism

  • Michael Wolff: “They are so vivid and cynical and in their own ways, honest...out of the other side of his mouth, he will tell you the truth. They’re incredible storytellers.” (03:46–04:03)

• Murdoch’s Detachment from Fox Success

  • Michael Wolff: “He doesn’t really care about Fox News. It’s kind of a low rent...but it starts to make money.” (08:11)

• On Fox’s Political Aggression

  • Michael Wolff: “It starts to become...more aggressive, more toxic, more clearly agenda driven.” (08:54)

• On Fox Shaping America’s Ideology

  • Michael Wolff: “It teaches a whole population...a new catechism...it becomes cult-like.” (17:56)

• Family Schism over Fox

  • Matthew Freud: “Ashamed and sickened by Roger Ailes’ horrendous and sustained disregard of the journalistic standards that News Corporation, its founder and every other global media business aspires to.” (19:37)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:02 — The illusionist quality of Murdoch’s leadership
• 02:35 — Murdoch’s overpayment for The Wall Street Journal
• 05:32 — The hiring of Roger Ailes after his NBC ouster
• 06:26–07:01 — Fox's rise through tabloidism and Clinton/Lewinsky scandal
• 09:46–13:17 — The Obama era and the intensification of Fox’s political stance
• 15:00 — Murdoch’s emotional separation from Fox News
• 17:45–18:29 — Fox News as a “catechism,” driving U.S. political polarization
• 19:37–20:06 — Family disavowal of Fox and internal Murdoch clan crisis
• 20:41–21:39 — The collapse of Murdoch’s third marriage and its implications

---

Conclusion

This episode provides a vivid, behind-the-scenes examination of Rupert Murdoch’s influence in America through Fox News, the internal rivalries and personality clashes that shaped the channel’s divisive ethos, and the profound, often unintended consequences for democracy and Murdoch’s own legacy. With incisive analysis and first-hand anecdotes from Michael Wolff, the conversation captures the paradox of Murdoch’s drive for power: the empire he built is the monster he cannot control.

Transcript

[Andrew Neil]

Thanks for listening to the Rest is Politics. Sign up to the Rest is Politics plus to enjoy ad free listening, receive a weekly newsletter, join our members chat room and gain early access to live show tickets. Just go to therestispolitics.com that's therestispolitics.com this.

[Spotify Ad Narrator]

Episode is brought to you by Spotify Portal for Backstage. But you're wondering what's Portal? Well, it's an internal developer portal built to improve developer experience and boost productivity. All software components are centralized. Documentation is automated and easy to maintain. New projects and components, just a few clicks. With your best practices already built in, think less friction, more innovation. Ready to double your productivity? Try Spotify [e-mail] hi there, it's Alastair here.

[Andrew Neil]

And in the penultimate episode of our miniseries on media magnet Rupert Murdoch, we look at his big power base in the United States, Fox News. The rise of Fox News over the past couple of decades has influenced so much of American politics and frankly, facilitated the rise of one Donald J. Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

Trump.

[Andrew Neil]

If you're interested in more, we've included a clip here from this week's episode. But if you want the whole thing and get all the benefits of trip membership, sign [e-mail] there's an amazing line in your, in your book which makes me think of Trump, but this is you writing about Murdoch. He is, and this is a fundamental entrepreneurial talent, a master illusionist. It's the essential entrepreneurial skill to convince people that you are what you have yet to become. So it's back to this point about people aching to believe that he's not as bad as everybody says. He'll be good for the Wall Street Journal. He'll respect the rules that we put in place. And then every time he lets them down. Is that his great skill?

[Michael Wolff]

I think Rupert has a lot of skills in the end, as, as mendacious as you certainly, and I would agree, you want to characterize Murdoch, you have to say somehow he accomplishes what he sets out to do and this becomes a perfect. You know, the means justify the ends. You know, most people never get to the end. They give up. And he manages to. It's like he just sits there just until it gets done.

[Andrew Neil]

He never gives up. So that's his purchase of Dow Jones. It's a big, big thing in the American media landscape. But in a sense, what's had the really big influence certainly on American politics is Fox News. And we mentioned it.

[Michael Wolff]

And just before you get there, because I think it's important. He buys the Wall Street Journal at the top of the market. So it's still in his head. He's pursuing something that other people in the media business know has passed. And he will overpay. Overpay by a factor of probably three for the Wall Street Journal. And they will write down almost the entire value of that business within a year. Within, I guess, 18 months.

[Andrew Neil]

Yeah. So he's actually not just doing this about money. This is about owning the vehicles that allow him to have greater command of a political space as well.

[Michael Wolff]

Even that. I think it's just owning newspapers. Just the love of newspapers.

[Andrew Neil]

Okay. We mentioned briefly in the last episode, Roger Ailes. I don't think I ever met Roger Ailes. He might have been at one thing I spoke at in Mexico. I can't remember.

[Michael Wolff]

I came to know Roger very well and, and to like him considerably. And he was. And yes. And he was even more mendacious than. Than Rupert.

[Andrew Neil]

Why do you like these lying people? What is it, Michael, about these liars that attract you?

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, yeah, it's a. It's a really, really good question. Because they are, I don't know, because they are so vivid and cynical and in their own ways, honest.

[Andrew Neil]

Right, honest. Because he doesn't hide the fact that he's a liar.

[Michael Wolff]

Exactly. And out of the other side of his mouth, he will tell you the truth. They're incredible storytellers also.

[Andrew Neil]

Roger Ailes was a storyteller.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Neil]

But Murdoch is not a great storyteller.

[Michael Wolff]

No, no, he's a myth maker. He's a. My feelings about Murdoch is. I actually, I actually like Murdoch when you're with him, you know, because first thing, first thing, he actually tells you what he's thinking at the moment. He just doesn't have any self awareness, so he can't tell you why he's done something. You're not really drawn to Murdoch because, you know, he's closed off. Somebody like Roger Ailes is not.

[Andrew Neil]

And Roger Ailes is somebody who's well known, pretty well known in the political world. He's worked for Ronald Reagan. He's worked for George H.W. bush. He worked for Rudy Giuliani when he was running for mayor in New York. Why does Murdoch hire him?

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, let me just dip back a second here. So in the mid-90s, Murdoch is actually trying to buy CNN. CNN. They won't sell it to him. So in a kind of a Murdoch knee jerk reaction, it's like, okay, you won't sell it to me, then I'm Gonna start my own. So he starts his own 24, 7 news network which is incredibly expensive. He hires large. He doesn't know him. Roger Ailes is a, you know, conservative political.

[Andrew Neil]

Why did he choose him though?

[Michael Wolff]

Guy? Because he was available. He had been working for NBC. He was a, you know, well known television guy who had political experience. He was working for NBC and had just been fired from NBC actually for making an anti semitic comment about someone, someone else in the company. Actually that someone else in the company is a guy by the name of David Zaslav who now runs Warner Discovery. So one of the big people in the, in the industry. So he was out of a job and available and Murdoch got together with him, they hit it off and Murdoch hired him.

[Andrew Neil]

Some of the people Ailes did not hit it off with were Murdoch's kids later.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean at the moment. So at the moment Fox's Fox begins, it's kind of nothing.

[Andrew Neil]

For how long is it nothing?

[Michael Wolff]

It makes its bones on Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, it gets out front of that and it immediately the tabloid culture comes out in a television news product. And again, tabloidism has never worked for Murdoch in the US it does in the form of Fox, although not because of Murdoch. So Fox News is started. Ailes asks for basically carte blanche on the editorial side. Murdoch gives it to him and he goes to town now and Murdoch doesn't.

[Andrew Neil]

Just on that though, Michael, what is it in Roger Ailes that it seems to me throughout Murdoch's life story, uniquely amongst these media executives, Murdoch goes along with that. Doesn't intimidate, doesn't interfere. Is that Elle's force of personality?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, but more importantly, it's television and.

[Andrew Neil]

Murdoch doesn't get it.

[Michael Wolff]

Murdoch doesn't get television. His only interest in television is that it make money for him. The exclusive charm of the business for Murdoch, cash flow. Ailes almost immediately starts to produce this. The numbers start to go up and because of again this tabloid thing, Clinton Munch, Monica Lewinsky starts to go up. So within it starts in 96 and by 2000, 2001 is beating CNN.

[Andrew Neil]

Yeah. And that's when Ailes, I think this is in your book, said, you know, he wanted cnn but I've given him Fox News.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Andrew Neil]

How long before Murdoch starts to feel a bit queasy? Because what's amazing about your book, I get the feeling he doesn't really like Fox News very much.

[Michael Wolff]

He doesn't really care about Fox News. It's kind of a low rent. But it starts to make money. It starts to get numbers. He's pleased with it because it's making money. He doesn't have to spend a lot of time with it. It's not horrible at this point. It's.

[Andrew Neil]

It's okay.

[Michael Wolff]

It's. Yeah, it is what it is. It's a kind of tabloid thing.

[Andrew Neil]

When does it become very political? When do we get to the point and tell me this is true? Somebody once told me that I was at one of these Murloc events and somebody told me that Roger Ailes every morning sent out a note to all staff that these are the propaganda points that we're making today.

[Michael Wolff]

Roger's a good storyteller. He's very. He sees television as a coherent thing. He sees news as a. It's not cnn, it's not running a newsroom. It's very top down. You know, I'm speaking to an audience. I'm not telling. Giving the world the news. I'm giving an audience what it comes here to get. It starts to become something else, something more aggressive, more toxic, more clearly agenda driven. In 2008, what happens then? Obama becomes president in 2008, during the campaign, Murdoch becomes and everybody in his family is an Obama person.

[Andrew Neil]

The children willingly. And Rupert may be more.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, he's brought along and Wendy too particularly. And the whole world remember that world just to go back, it's very hard to remember now. 2008, there's an incredible moment. Obama is optimism.

[Andrew Neil]

Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

During the campaign, Murdoch has been trying to get a meeting with Obama. Obama won't meet with him, but finally agrees. They show up, I think this is in New York. And Murdoch brings Ailes along first. Murdoch sits down with Obama and they have a good meeting. And actually Murdoch says to him, the one thing that I, that I've learned, I've known every president something Murdoch is very proud of.

[Andrew Neil]

You know what's really interesting about that? I can remember George W. Bush, I'm sure, this saying to us once, what's this guy Murdoch like? I don't really know.

[Michael Wolff]

I don't know. I mean, I know that Murdoch has said point of pride. I've known every president whether he's forgotten one. Very possible. But he says to Obama this. I've known every president. I have one piece of advice for you and that's you have six months. That's the moment when you can do something. And then Obama curiously talks to him about his father. I mean, asks Rupert about Rupert's father, Keith. So they have a perfectly civil, respectful discussion. I think they get along. Then he brings Ailes in and Obama goes to town on him.

[Andrew Neil]

Good for him.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, rips him apart. You know, you've accused me of being a Muslim. Just a full, full force attack, which.

[Andrew Neil]

Hold on, Murdoch probably didn't enjoy.

[Michael Wolff]

I don't know if that's, if that's true. And I've wondered if maybe he staged this because he's nice. No, it's not. He would like to bring Ailes under control and he would like, you know, the. As I say, the family, including Murdoch, has decided they are supporting Obama because.

[Andrew Neil]

I'll tell you why I say that. I was once in Tony Blair's flat in Downing street and Rupert Murdoch came with the two sons, Lachlan and James, and we ended up talking about the Middle east and James started speaking really quite passionately from a pro Palestinian perspective and got quite, you know, aerated about, about Israel. And of course Murdoch is, you know, full, very, very pro Israeli. I remember I said in my diary that I was quite impressed by the way that even though there's the Prime Minister sitting there, Murdoch kind of let James do a lot of the talking. But then when it got where he could sense that Tony was maybe just thinking things were going a bit far and James started swearing and saying the fucking Israelis and this sort of stuff. And that was the first point when Rupert Murdoch stepped in and said, James, you don't talk like that in the Prime Minister's house. But so I always say he doesn't quite like those really.

[Michael Wolff]

No, no, he's a conflict averse. But if somebody else is conducting the confrontation, he can sit back. Yes. But at any rate, I think that this phenomenally backfired on all concerned because Obama as well, because, yes, because Ailes became an enemy, just doubled down and it gave Fox a whole, whole new edge, the Obama thing.

[Andrew Neil]

And if you go back to our first discussion when I was talking about how the way Murdoch operated with his editors and he threw out hints and off they went and thought like he did. Ailes is not doing that. Ailes is thinking like Ailes thinks, not.

[Michael Wolff]

How Murdoch thinks completely. And Ailes is undermining to a large degree, undermining Murdoch.

[Andrew Neil]

And when he said so, there's this phrase, this sentence that Ailes comes out with, with once it has become the Fox News that we know today. It's not enough that conservatives like us, but that liberals hate us. In his head, liberals includes Lachlan Murdoch, James Murdoch, Elizabeth Murdoch.

[Michael Wolff]

Ailes is always, I mean, I mean, takes a visceral dislike and opposition to the children they spend the money I make. Ailes says.

[Andrew Neil]

He also says at one point that Rupert Murdoch is kind of pathetic around those children.

[Michael Wolff]

Completely.

[Andrew Neil]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

So Lachlan Murdoch, who was brought back from Australia to be sort of, you know, his father's lieutenant, the number two, he's forced, basically forced out of the company. Or Ailes and another executive, Peter Chernin, force Rupert to decide it's us or him.

[Andrew Neil]

I don't know what Elsie's kind of social views were, but he sort of seems pretty profoundly homophobic. He's constantly sort of running the line that both the boys are gay.

[Michael Wolff]

Totally. And then he has evidence and pictures.

[Andrew Neil]

Which we've never seen.

[Michael Wolff]

No.

[Andrew Neil]

So he probably doesn't have.

[Michael Wolff]

Of course not.

[Andrew Neil]

Would Rupert Murdoch be remotely jealous of the fact that Els is.

[Michael Wolff]

He becomes increasingly. He becomes increasingly. Because this is in. This is painful to Murdoch. Is that the news accomplishment of his life? And remember, Murdoch sees I'm a newsman is Fox News, and he has nothing to do with it. It's not his. And there's no way he can claim that it is his. It is Roger Ailes creation, and everything happens there because of Roger Ailes. Murdoch doesn't know what to do about this. So when. When I was writing my book, the only stipulation I could do anything, I could say there was no. They had no control over it. The only stipulation was that I not speak to Ailes because Rupert clearly thought he was gonna claim the credit here.

[Andrew Neil]

And I assume you spoke to Ailes.

[Michael Wolff]

I didn't. Oh, I didn't.

[Andrew Neil]

You did. As you told Michael.

[Michael Wolff]

And I was friends with Ailes before this. I always liked him. As a matter of fact, he hired my. Once hired my daughter and. Which was an Ailes thing. Very Godfather like, I'll take care of you.

[Andrew Neil]

Remember we talked when. About the. The Titanic, that Murdoch was really pissed off that, you know, was it Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet were getting these sort of mega bucks. Did he get pissed off that Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson and these people became multimillionaires from.

[Michael Wolff]

They. They don't become multimillionaires until later. So we're still in the period in which Fox is running at a. You know, is a cheap place.

[Andrew Neil]

Okay, so he's growing, but when he.

[Michael Wolff]

Is, people at CNN are still making a lot of money. Yes. And later. So Ailes will be ousted in 2016, and then this whole salary scales change at Fox.

[Andrew Neil]

But does that piss him off or is he. Because you get the. I get the sense with Fox News that it's almost like it becomes a bigger brand than any of.

[Michael Wolff]

Everything is complicated about. About Fox News as it for vis a vis Murdoch, as it will be complicated about. About Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean, these are things which he theoretically should control but can't control anymore. They have a life of their own. So Fox is set in motion, set in motion by Ailes. Ailes creates this fiefdom which only he controls. And all of the people at Fox are loyal to Ailes. They're not loyal to Murdoch. Murdoch is just a kind of a remote unpleasant cloud somewhere out there.

[Andrew Neil]

And today, with Trump in charge again, it's become a given that we talk about a very polarized America. What's your assessment of the role of Fox News?

[Michael Wolff]

It becomes elemental. It teaches a whole population of the country a new catechism. And it's a right wing, nationalistic, xenophobic way of thinking. It is articulated by Fox, it's propagandized by Fox. It's the repetitions of Fox drill it into the heads of people who become only Fox listeners. It becomes cult.

[Andrew Neil]

Like, so you've got the Rupert Murdoch there. You've got the kids who are feeling a bit kind of bruised by stuff. They don't like Ales, they don't like Fox. They're still sort of probably back of their mind thinking, dad's getting on a bit. This succession stuff's gonna be real. How are they dealing with all this?

[Michael Wolff]

I'm not sure that they know how to deal with it yet, but their first step and the first thing that they respond to is Fox News. I mean, and this is. This becomes. I mean, I mean, Fox News. And this is by about 2012, Fox News is a major power and it is a disruptive power and a toxic power. And the kids take a stand against it. This is done by a statement from Matthew Freud, who, who we've spoken about before. I mean, he becomes in his relation, his position in the family is an interesting one. And he's working this and he has his own agenda, but he steps forward and becomes the spokesman for the children and issues a statement about Fox News which is devastating.

[Andrew Neil]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. The New York Times and Matthew Freud on the record. He's married to Elizabeth and he's also openly speaking for her and her siblings. And he says, I am by no means alone within the family or the company in being ashamed and sickened by Roger Ailes horrendous and sustained disregard of the journalistic standards that News Corporation, its founder and Every other global media business aspires to. It's quite strong stuff.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, he's throwing down a flag here. And it is an open challenge now. And it immediately backfires because Ailes goes to Rupert and says, you fucking children, I'm gonna quit if you don't do something.

[Andrew Neil]

And what happens?

[Michael Wolff]

Rupert gives them a new contract worth significantly more money.

[Andrew Neil]

And where did the kids go?

[Michael Wolff]

They stew. This. This goes on to create more dissension, and the kids vow to do something about this.

[Andrew Neil]

Well, we'll come on briefly shortly to when they finally see the back of Ailes. But meanwhile, Rupert's third marriage is falling apart. You think it's already fallen apart, but that's now becoming public and it's ending.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, but even that surprises everyone. I remember, actually, I was in London, and I remember the moment people started to call. They could not believe it, that, again, a Murdoch marriage was breaking up. Now, in hindsight, there have been so many marriages that have broken up, why should this be a surprise? But there's just something about Murdoch that you just don't expect him to have that kind of dramatic personal life, which it turns out he does.

[Andrew Neil]

The age gap was not good. Come on, be honest. And she's quite a vibrant socializer.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, she's a social being, a social climber. She's out there. And I think living with Rupert would be, frankly, very difficult because, you know, he is only interested in work and he's only interested in talking about the media business. And he is, again, I mean, I can't imagine Rupert's personal life, the cause, the. You know, and this is. This is going to be an awkward moment here, but the proximate cause is an affair that she is said to have had that Murdoch certainly believes she has had and believes he has evidence of with Tony Blair.