The Phone-Hacking Scandal: How Murdoch's UK Empire Fell

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: The Phone-Hacking Scandal: How Murdoch's UK Empire Fell
Podcast: The Rest Is Politics
Date: October 25, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell (with guest Michael Wolff)

This episode explores Rupert Murdoch’s tumultuous influence over the British media, focusing specifically on the phone-hacking scandal that rocked his UK empire. Alastair Campbell and journalist Michael Wolff dissect the origins, fallout, and ethical implications of the scandal, discuss key political and social repercussions, and reflect on whether it truly marked the beginning of Murdoch’s downfall in Britain.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Murdoch’s Power and the Scandal’s Scope

• Murdoch’s Impact:
  Both hosts acknowledge Murdoch as an unmatched power broker in international media.

  • Michael Wolff: “He holds power longer than anyone else in our time and it’s meaningful power. It’s phenomenal power.” (11:04)
  • Alastair Campbell: “Power without responsibility. The prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages.” (11:19)

• Nature of the Scandal:
  The phone-hacking scandal exposed widespread illegal activity within Murdoch’s UK newspapers, notably targeting private individuals, celebrities, political figures, and, with tragic implications, victims of crime and national tragedy.

  • Campbell: “This was industrial illegal activity. And that I think is what really cuts through to the public and thinks you people are really, really bad.” (11:47)

2. The Turning Point: Public Outrage and Political Pressure

• Escalation:
  The scandal reached a moral tipping point when it was discovered that journalists had hacked the voicemails of murder victim Milly Dowler and other vulnerable subjects.

  • Campbell: “Once it was people like me and John Prescott and Hugh Grant, political people, celebrities, they probably didn't really care... When it emerged that Millie Dowler... that they were actually hacking the phones of murdered children... You got to one point where Millie Dowler's parents... didn't know she was dead, were phoning and leaving messages... So they think, oh my God, she's deleting her messages. That's great. That means she's alive.” (03:29–04:50)
  • Wolff: “That’s the point at which this story becomes horrific... This is just human suffering that tabloids make some of their living on.” (05:11)

• Broader Victims:
  Other victims included families of British soldiers killed in Iraq/Afghanistan, bombing victims, and additional murder victims such as Sarah Payne.

  • Campbell: “They’ve been doing it to British soldiers who’ve been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan... the mother of another murder victim, an eight-year-old girl called Sarah Payne. So this is just off the scale.” (05:44)

3. Fallout: Legal, Political, and Institutional Responses

• High-Profile Consequences:

  • James Murdoch forced to resign (06:03).
  • Concerns he could be arrested prompted his quick departure from the UK.
  • Andy Coulson, former News of the World editor, arrested and ultimately imprisoned.
  • Rebekah Brooks, despite being charged (alongside her husband), was acquitted after a protracted trial.
    • Wolff (on the trial): “I sat through that trial actually. I got held in contempt for that trial because I wrote about the trial... I probably said [Brooks] was guilty.” (06:57–07:22)
    • Campbell responds: “You can’t do that, Michael... You are innocent until proven guilty.” (07:28–07:32)

• Political Fallout:
  Public shock catalyzed calls for reform in press ethics.

  • Campbell: “That’s what led to David Cameron... saying we have to have this inquiry into press ethics. And that was the Leveson Inquiry.” (04:50)

• Missed Opportunities:
  The hosts express frustration that Leveson’s recommendations for meaningful press regulation were ultimately watered down or abandoned.

  • Campbell: “It was another win for the press... Leveson 2... was dropped subsequently by the Conservative government... That was a massive missed opportunity and I still think we’re paying a price.” (07:32–08:45)

4. Legacy: Lasting Damage and Declining Tabloid Power

• Tabloid Decline:
  Wolff and Campbell debate whether the tabloid culture retains its power.
  • Wolff: “It’s a broader discussion about whether you think the tabloid press has continued with its particular power, given the fact that the tabloid press is a shadow of what it once was even 15 years ago.” (08:45)
  • Campbell: “That is true. As somebody who comes from a tabloid journalist background, I find that very sad... But I still think our media culture has been very, very badly damaged.” (09:02)
  • The written press still exerts influence over broader media and politics, even in a digital age.

5. Memorable Moments and Candid Commentary

• The Parliamentary Select Committee Incident:
  Campbell recalls the infamous parliamentary hearing, where Murdoch’s wife Wendy Deng protected him from a protester, overshadowing James Murdoch’s ineffective reaction.

  • Campbell: “Wendy standing up and prepared to take this guy on, whereas James... doesn’t quite know what to do.” (02:22)

• Missed Reform:
  The hosts reflect on whether British media culture will ever truly reform given institutional and political resistance.

• On Murdoch’s Vision:

  • Wolff: “There is no Donald Trump without Fox News. His dream was always to elect a president of the United States. The bitter irony is that that turned out to be Donald Trump, a man he detests.” (12:05)

6. Looking Ahead

• The episode concludes with a teaser for the next discussion: Murdoch’s impact on American media, the ascent of Fox News, and its relationship with Donald Trump.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Alastair Campbell:

  • “If you can match the reputational damage to the financial damage, I could see that it might have done.” (02:22)
  • “That I think is what really cuts through to the public and thinks, you people are really, really bad.” (04:50)
  • “I am by now... absolutely convinced this is the moment at which this wretched media culture in our country has to be changed and Cameron has the opportunity to do it.” (07:32)
  • “I still think our media culture has been very, very badly damaged.” (09:02)

• Michael Wolff:

  • “This story becomes horrific... This is just human suffering that tabloids make some of their living on.” (05:11)
  • “James is not only, not only resigns, he's basically forced out…they have to get him out of the country as fast as possible.” (06:03)
  • “There is always a lot at every point in Murdoch’s career.” (09:41)
  • “There is no Donald Trump without Fox News. His dream was always to elect a president of the United States. The bitter irony is that that turned out to be Donald Trump, a man he detests.” (12:05)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Murdoch’s downfall and the Select Committee – 02:20–03:29
• Milly Dowler revelations and the breaking point – 03:29–05:11
• Phone-hacking victims beyond celebrities – 05:44–06:03
• James Murdoch resigns, legal fallout – 06:03–06:57
• Rebekah Brooks’s trial and contempt incident – 06:57–07:32
• The Leveson Inquiry and political response – 04:50, 07:32–08:45
• Decline of tabloids and lingering media damage – 08:45–09:41
• Murdoch’s lasting influence and teaser for next episode – 10:06–12:29

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Conclusion

Campbell and Wolff offer a frank and broad-ranging analysis of the phone-hacking scandal, its disastrous human and political consequences, and the inability (or unwillingness) of British institutions to fundamentally reform press practices. While the tabloid press may have diminished, its toxic legacy and cultural influence persist. The episode sets the scene for an equally provocative follow-up tackling Murdoch’s American empire and the Fox News effect.

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Transcript

[Alastair Campbell]

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[Michael Wolff]

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[Alastair Campbell]

Welcome to the Rest is Politics. Alastair here, not with Rory, but with Michael Wolff. Because this week in our series on one of the 21st century's most significant figures, Rupert Murdoch, we're looking at one of his worst legacies within the uk the scandal of phonaking when it was revealed that they were even hacking the phones of dead children. It shocked Britain to its core, exposed the very, very dark side of our media. If you're interested in more, we've left a clip for you here. To hear the full episode and get all the benefits of a trip membership, sign [e-mail] did you think that phone.

[Michael Wolff]

Hacking would bring him down?

[Alastair Campbell]

I thought it had the capacity to, not necessarily because of the crime itself but because of their catastrophic handling of it, I mean, I can't remember what some were up to, but they're into the hundreds of millions in terms of the cost already now, in a sort of multi billion company, that may not be so much. But I thought reputationally, if you can match the reputational damage to the financial damage, I could see that it might have done. And I thought the. His appearance at the Select Committee, when Wendy Deng probably first entered public consciousness here in a big way, because when the guy somehow smuggled through parliamentary security, accustomed, whatever it was, and of course, in a weird sort of way, I think that sort of helped Murloc in a bit because that's what people remember about it. And then they remember Wendy standing up and prepared to take this guy on, whereas James, who's sitting there looking like a bit of a kind of wet fish, doesn't quite know what to do.

[Michael Wolff]

No. And actually because the marriage is breaking up at that point, although no one knows it, so Murdoch is pissed and that she comes out looking like the hero.

[Alastair Campbell]

I think the moment of maximum, maximum vulnerability was this revelation which really shocked people because once it was, when it was people like me and John Prescott and Hugh Grant, political people, celebrities, they probably didn't really care when it was.

[Michael Wolff]

Important or they thought you deserved it.

[Alastair Campbell]

Or that we deserved it, Michael, because we'd sold out Rupert Murdoch, which I'm grateful that you've retracted that statement. Earlier, when it emerged that Millie Dowler, this who'd been murdered and others who'd been kidnap victims and children who'd been abducted, that they were actually hacking the phones of murdered children to find out whatever. You got to one point where Millie Dowler's parents, at this stage didn't know she was dead, were phoning and leaving messages to the extent that with all the other messages going on there, the voice box ended up being full. And the reason this was so horrific is because her parents are out of their minds with worry. They're phoning constantly, leaving messages and they get this message that the mailbox is full and then they keep phoning and after a while they can leave a message. So they think, oh my God, she's deleting her messages. That's great. That means she's alive. So this actually leads them to think she's alive. And that I think is what really cuts through to the public and thinks, you people are really, really bad. And that's what led to David Cameron, who people felt had been very soft on Murdoch for the obvious reasons, political Chipping Norton Et cetera. That's what led to Cameron saying we have to have this inquiry into press ethics. And that was the Leveson Inquiry.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I mean, that's the point at which this story becomes, I mean, it becomes horrific. You know, the point is celebrities and politicians, well, maybe you do have something to hide and maybe they should find it out. But suddenly we're in this territory of hacking people who have nothing. I mean, they have. No, this is not. There is no news value here. This is just human suffering that tabloids make some of their living on.

[Alastair Campbell]

And it emerges they've been doing, doing it to British soldiers who've been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan to find out what their families are saying and doing. Bombing victims in the 77 London bombings. The mother of another murder victim, an eight year old girl called Sarah Payne. So this is just off the scale. James Murdoch resigns.

[Michael Wolff]

James is not only, not only resigns, he's basically forced out because, and certainly within the company they believe that he may be arrested and they have to get him out of the country as fast as possible.

[Alastair Campbell]

Right. Andy Coulson is then arrested in July 2011. He's charged, he's convicted, he goes to prison. He's the only one of this whole escapade of the senior management that goes to prison. Rebecca Brooks, as we've said earlier, she was charged but not convicted. And including her husband, who was also charged because there was laptops going missing, usual stuff. Then we have this committee appearance. They were obviously trained out of their, you know, they were media trained like to the nth degree. But I don't think they really did themselves much good at that. Rebecca Brooks is then arrested July 2011. But she gets off now.

[Michael Wolff]

But she goes through a long trial, a long, you know, and it, it's, you know, I sat through that trial actually. I, I got, got held in contempt for that trial because.

[Alastair Campbell]

Why I.

[Michael Wolff]

Because you. British laws are kind of.

[Alastair Campbell]

What did you do?

[Michael Wolff]

I just wrote something. Apparently you're not allowed to.

[Alastair Campbell]

Well, you're allowed to write about it. Tell me what was you. You know, what education do we have to give you now, Michael? What, what, what do you do?

[Michael Wolff]

I wrote about the trial and you said she's guilty. Yeah, I probably said that.

[Alastair Campbell]

You can't do that, Michael.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, in, in my country you can.

[Alastair Campbell]

I know you can. But that's why the rule of law is breaking down here. You are innocent until proven guilty. So then we have the Leveson inquiry and this I think is where your justified criticisms of us, the political class and our. I think this is where it comes to a head. I am by now in what Tony Blair used to call my jihadi mode. I'm absolutely convinced this is the moment at which this wretched media culture in our country has to be changed and Cameron has the opportunity to do it. David Cameron said that if Lord Leveson produces recommendations which are not bonkers, was his phrase, we will implement them. The regime that was brought in for press regulation was little more than a sort of. It was another win for the press. And what's more, Leveson 2, which wasn't happening at the time because of all the criminal investigations going on, which was into relations between News International and the police, that was dropped subsequently by the Conservative government. So you talk about missed opportunities and blame it on me for not challenging Murdoch at the wedding. That was a massive missed opportunity and I still think we're paying a price.

[Michael Wolff]

It's a broader discussion about whether you think the tabloid press has continued with its particular power, given the fact that the tabloid press is a shadow of what it once was even 15 years ago.

[Alastair Campbell]

That's true. That is true. And as somebody who comes from a tabloid journalist background, I find that very sad on one level. But I think in a way, the good that was in tabloids had gone anyway. But I still think our media culture has been very, very badly damaged. I think it's damaged our broadcasters because I think the problem with our broadcasters today is they're still massively influenced by written press. So even though the sort of numbers of people who read the written press has their influence within the political debate is still pretty strong, even with social media, AI and all the other stuff that's coming along. So there we are. My God, we got through a lot in that episode, Michael.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, I mean, it just goes that there is always a lot at every point in Murdoch's career. I mean, more than in all other careers in some sense. I mean, because he's partly. Partly because he's operating at so many. In so many different. Different venues at a given period of time, but also because he's doubling down constantly.

[Alastair Campbell]

Good. Well, that's this episode. And in the next episode, we're going to be back in the United States and we're going to be talking about the rise and rise of the Fox News behemoth alongside the rise and rise and fall and rise of Donald Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

We'll see you then.

[Alastair Campbell]

See you then, Michael.

[Michael Wolff]

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[Alastair Campbell]

Alastair Campbell here. Now we've just released a series on one of the most controversial and consequential people of the past 50 years, Rupert Murdoch.

[Michael Wolff]

I think you can argue that he is the most consequential figure of the second half of the 20th century. He holds power longer than anyone else in our time and its meaningful power. It's phenomenal power.

[Alastair Campbell]

Power without responsibility. The prero of the harlot throughout the ages. This is where he becomes not just a newspaper owner, he becomes a major newsmaker.

[Michael Wolff]

Fuck Dacre publish. There is always a premium on bringing him gossip.

[David (Rest is Classified)]

I don't know what you mean by downmarket and upmarket. That is so English class ridden snobbery.

[Michael Wolff]

When you talk like that, how you get it doesn't make any difference. Actually to be perfectly honest, whether it's true or not doesn't make much difference.

[Alastair Campbell]

There is a massive, massive scandal brewing. This was industrial illegal activity. And that I think is what really cuts through to the public and thinks you people are really, really bad.

[David (Rest is Classified)]

I would just like to say one sentence. This is the most humble day of my life.

[Michael Wolff]

There is no Donald Trump without Fox News. His dream was always to elect a president of the United States. The the bitter irony is that that turned out to be Donald Trump, a man he detests. He is conquering the world. There is nothing less than this methodical step by step progress to take over everything.

[Alastair Campbell]

To hear more, sign up@the restispolitics.com hi.

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