All Aboard The Glambulance!

Summary

Mess World Podcast: "All Aboard The Glambulance!" (August 7, 2026)

Hosts: Jessica DeFino & Emily Kirkpatrick

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Episode Overview

This episode of Mess World dives into recent happenings at the crossroads of pop culture, beauty, and media criticism. Jessica and Emily commemorate their "birthday month" with musings on king-sized beds, AI’s infiltration into publishing, rage-bait media tactics, celebrity weddings (Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce’s!), plastic surgery discourse (including a critique of Gia Tolentino’s New Yorker piece), influencer culture, beauty product oddities, shredded fashion, and much more. The two give their signature sharp, funny, and occasionally exasperated takes on everything from the "glambulance" beauty PR stunt to the ways AI is draining the soul out of media.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Birthday Musings & Book Club Return

• Jessica & Emily open by discussing their July birthdays and the Leo kinship that led to three-hour-long monthly talks. (00:27–03:11)
• Emily regales her king-sized bed upgrade:
  “Maybe I’ve never fit in a bed before because I feel like it’s finally like my whole body fits in this bed. And I’m sleeping more soundly than I’ve ever slept in my life.” (01:57–02:10)
• Lowbrow Book Club is back for August, tackling John Berger’s Ways of Seeing—called “seminal” and “an absolute touchstone for so many books on theory.” (03:37–05:04)

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2. AI Ruining Media & The Marie Claire Australia Debacle

• Fresh outrage: Marie Claire Australia published an AI-written article, accidentally leaving in the AI prompt, exposing the use of generative tools. (09:01–13:08)
• Key Quotes:
  • Emily: “To me, it’s like, if we are going to live through this AI apocalypse… voice is literally the only thing we have. Voice is the one thing these robots can’t fucking imitate and they can’t replicate.” (15:17–15:33)
  • Jessica observes the irony: “There’s also something really bleak about the fact that it was an AI generated article about the Odyssey, which is like sort of the origin of storytelling and literature and what it’s been reduced to.” (12:54–13:08)
• Timestamps:
  • AI incident introduction: 09:01
  • Arguments about what editors do: 13:08–15:40
  • Rant about “algorithmic lobotomy” and content factory culture: 10:39–19:50

Substack & AI Detection Angst

• Both are skeptical about Substack’s new AI-detection partner, Panagram:
  “If you think my newsletter or your newsletter is made by an AI bot… you need to read more.” (21:35–22:02)
• The stance: They refuse to enable the Substack AI check on their own newsletters. (21:14–22:14)

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3. Plastic Surgery Discourse: The Gia Tolentino Controversy

• Jessica’s work misinterpreted: Gia Tolentino references Jessica’s words in a New Yorker essay, but frames her as using a “careful” tone, which Jessica finds baffling:

  “This is the first time in my life I have been called careful or cautious or delicate… the insults thrown at me on a weekly basis are like, fear mongering asshole bitch who’s radicalizing people…” (24:23–25:30)

• Editors at big publications have often tried to moderate or soften Jessica’s language—the opposite of what Gia implies. (27:11–27:49)
• Emily: “If you are reading your Guardian column, which you are the columnist of every month, and you’re quoting it, you wouldn’t click through to the author? I don’t believe that...” (29:01–29:21)
• Both critique omissions from Tolentino’s analysis, particularly not including gender-affirming care issues:
  Jessica: “There is no mention of gender affirming care… I just think that’s kind of a glaring omission.” (34:11–34:37)

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4. Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce’s Tacky Wedding Extravaganza

• Emily’s mini-rant about the spectacle, filled with rage and delight.

  “Is it good? No. It’s one of the tackiest things I’ve ever seen in my entire life.” (36:26–36:31)

• Points of complaint:
  • Date (July 4th weekend!) disrupting NYC, “psychotic” scheduling
  • Hideous raffle prizes (“Chanel bag... Hideous. It’s just the one that everybody has.” 41:29–42:31)
  • Guest list (“It felt like a guest list made in a marketing boardroom… very squad coded… like, who haven’t I co-opted?” 44:13–45:12)
  • The “mystery dog makes big debut” Page Six headline brings great joy (50:19)

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5. Carolyn Calloway’s Ozempic Essay & Pro-Anna Nostalgia

• Jessica dissects Carolyn’s Byline essay glorifying Ozempic-induced weight loss:
  “This is just, like, revamped Pro Anna content from the early 2000s… I think I want to call it... Glop Slop.” (51:29–51:59)
• The most disturbing lines:

  “First, Ozempic will make you skinny, and then being skinny will make the world kinder to you if you’re a woman. Then after that, if you have a hedonistic brain chemistry… GLP-1s will subdue you…” (53:44–54:12)

• Discussion shifts to how beauty and diet culture trick people into believing clichés (“It’s literally one of the most boring thoughts you can have.” 54:12)

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6. Mess Trends: Shredded Fashion, ‘Sea Hag’ Couture, and Decrepit Luxury

• Red-carpet recap: Zendaya, Gabriette, and Cardi B in tattered, shredded, or “distress-luxury” fashion (62:58–67:59)
• Analysis: High-end fashion now mimics decay, referencing “Golden Goose energy,” and the trajectory from logomania to distressed authenticity.

  “There’s something there, and it gives me real Golden Goose energy… The new form of luxury being something that looks decrepit.” (67:40–68:08)

• Strategic Botox as ‘worn’/natural, performed imperfection (69:08–69:57)
• “Not an embodied life, but an embodied life”—Jessica muses on the trend of bottling experiences and selling signifiers (71:03–75:41)

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7. The “Glambulance”: PR Stunt or Dystopian Beauty Satire?

• Jessica recounts the Tarte Beauty “Glambulance” campaign:

  “Telling people to call 1-800-SNATCHED… come in to get an upper bleph, a jaw lift, a rhinoplasty… but it’s actually a new contour product, and they’re positioning it as giving you surgery-level results.” (93:23–94:49)

• Models in the campaign wear medical gauze; makeup is applied like surgery marks.
• Both echo: This is the medicalization (and now medical emergency-ification) of beauty standards, with Jessica noting how her trend predictions are coming true.

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8. Influencer Backlash & The “No Influencers” Nantucket Sign

• Viral story: A Nantucket store posts ‘No Influencers’—sparking accusations of anti-woman, anti-feminist bias. (77:07–80:10)
• Emily: “It’s not a feminist right to again make a front-facing camera video of you dancing... We’ve made a leap in logic there.”
• Discussion:
  • The overuse and dilution of “feminism” as a defense
  • The real issue: commodification of self, influence, and the public experience (83:50–86:31)
  • “...To make customers feel comfortable and secure in their store that they can, like, live their life and be themselves.” (85:50–86:02)

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9. Mess of the Month

Emily: Jimothy the Seattle Raccoon

• Internet-viral raccoon with a rare short-spine syndrome. Emily contacts a pet psychic for (possibly-unpublished) Interview Magazine piece!
  “I love when the world collectively becomes obsessed with one animal… I think it’s healthy for us as a global community to fixate on an animal that makes us all happy.” (90:53–91:50)

Jessica: The Tarte “Glambulance”

• “A glammed out ambulance… telling people to call 1-800-SNATCHED… lay down on a gurney and they give you a fake ‘snatch stick’ contour makeover with surgical marks.” (93:03–94:49)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On king-sized beds:
  “It’s nice to feel petite for once in my life.” (02:01)
• “Wrestling is very mess.” (06:48)
• On AI’s effect:
  “Linguistic lobotomy.” (11:00)
• On media clickbait and AI:
  “I tell the interns this all the time, but I’m like, if you use chat, you don’t want to be a writer.” (14:24)
• On being mischaracterized in media:
  “I actually had to go back and forth with my editor to keep that in. They were like, it’s a little much.” (26:41–26:58)
• On influencer identity:
  “It’s not a feminist right to again make a front-facing camera video of you dancing. We’ve made a leap in logic there.” (80:38–80:52)
• On “Glambulance”:
  “It’s just glorifying the look of invasive procedures.” (96:01)
• On the trend of shredded clothes:
  “There’s just something there to me about, like, the new form of luxury being something that looks decrepit.” (68:00)

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Additional Highlights

• Real talk on “algorithmic slop talk” and how AI shapes human language (10:04–11:01)
• The issue of beauty culture producing “homogenously beautiful thin bodies” and inability to value originality (55:05–55:14)
• Noticing how luxury is now feigning decrepitude to signal status and authenticity (68:08)
• Repeated calls for transparency or awareness in plastic surgery, influencer, and beauty trends

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Connect & Follow-up

• Both hosts plug their newsletters: Flesh World by Jessica DeFino and I <3 Mess by Emily Kirkpatrick (find on Substack), for more deep dives, rants, and pop culture decoding.
• Reminder: “We are not AI. Our content is real and you can find us on every platform!” (99:49–99:58)

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A brilliant, sprawling episode—messy, witty, critical, and unafraid to name the strange undercurrents shaping fashion, beauty, and the digital spectacle.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to Mess World, a podcast dedicated to discussing the highs and lows of pop culture every month. I'm Jessica Defino and I write the newsletter Flesh World.

[B]

And I'm Emily Kirkpatrick and I write the newsletter I Heart Message.

[A]

And it's our birthday month.

[B]

It's our birthday month. Two July leos. It was right. This is gonna come out in August, but I think we say this every year, but it's like, are you surprised two July leos found each other and talk for three hours straight once a month?

[A]

No. No. Not surprised at all.

[B]

It makes a little too much sense, I feel.

[A]

I know. How was your birthday?

[B]

My birthday was great. It was very chill. As I said in my newsletter. My parents gift to me was shipping me a king size mattress out of their storage unit.

[A]

That's so nice.

[B]

Yeah. So it's fucking crazy. It's really crazy that king size beds are this size. I guess I never realized I never have had a king bed in my life because, like, why would I? Yeah. Also in New York City, like, why would I? So I wasn't. I wasn't aware the. I just don't think we're talking enough as a society about the difference from a queen to a king. And it's like not a normal step. You're not like. I think a lot of people to

[A]

a king don't know the difference. I couldn't talk about it.

[B]

It's crazy. It's like a square. It's a perfect giant square square. It's crazy.

[A]

I do know this because I've bought king sheets before for a queen bed. And I'm like, how?

[B]

Yes. How? It's impossible. Yeah, I just feel like twin to fold to queen. Feel like logical, like benchmarks to me. Like that is a normal amount of stepping up. And a king is like quadruple. A queen is what it feels like. And also remember this is a 6 foot 2 person saying this. Like, I am the giant who like should be feeling normal in this bed. And I feel like a tiny little pea with a giant paw.

[A]

I love that for you.

[B]

Yeah, it's nice. It's nice to feel petite for once in my life. And also I have an extended room. Yes. And also this is like sometimes I'll sit down in a chair places and my feet will just barely touch the floor. And that is such a rare experience. I'm like, who is this chair for? Like, what, what monsters are sitting here anyway? I love it. I love feeling small. But yeah, it's monstrous. But also I've kind of realized that maybe I've never fit in a bed before because I feel like it's finally like my whole body fits in this bed. And I'm sleeping more soundly than I've ever slept in my life. And I'm like, oh, have I been sabotaging my own sleep? Because I just refuse to get a monstrously large bed. Maybe. Yeah, maybe I'm loving it.

[A]

I mean, this is so great.

[B]

I encourage everyone to get a bed three sizes larger than you think you deserve. Try it out now.

[A]

I want a king. I have plenty of room in this apartment. Our bedroom is so big.

[B]

I know. That's what I figured. I was like, I do literally, for the first time in my life, have the physical space. Like, why not just be gratuitous?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Max it out.

[A]

So exciting.

[B]

As my single self. Literally sleep. Literally. I wake up every morning diagonal across the entire bed.

[A]

Is Fran allowed in the bed?

[B]

She is. And she is also sprawling in a major way. Yeah. She is the tiniest dog in this bed. It's very funny. She loves it. She thinks my bed is her bed. It's a real issue, actually, that we face. I mean, it kind of is. Yeah. No, Yeah. I cede it to her.

[A]

Yeah. My cat thinks the same thing, but it's less of a problem with.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With a little cat. We're also coming back with the book club soon.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We took July off to celebrate, and now we're back. Back to our intellectual labor at the club.

[B]

We are back for the month of August. We are turning the subscriptions back on. We are going to be reading a seminal text called Ways of See. Maybe you heard of it? I think we only talk about it every episode. So if you haven't heard about it, you're not paying attention.

[A]

Yeah, you haven't listened enough.

[B]

But it's literally, I don't know, like, one of my favorite books. It's truly so important. And I feel like every book of theory that we've read in this book club, you and I have both tied it back to Ways of Seeing. Or, like, references. Ways of Seeing in some way. Exactly. And it just feels, like, so important. And it's like, not everyone in the club has read it, so we should just read it. And it's also so easy. And also, honestly, if you don't want to read, read it. There's a beautiful BBC miniseries that you can just watch instead. And you can fall in love with John Berger and. And find him inexplicably sexy. Like everyone Else does.

[A]

Apparently, there's a John Berger, like, film festival going on in New York as we speak. It might be over by the time this I would love to See that Sucks comes out. But, yeah, John and I are going to see something at Metrograph on Sunday. I can't remember what we're seeing, but, yeah, it's like, all different places over the city are doing John Berger films, apparently.

[B]

Love him. So cool.

[A]

So that'll be exciting. Yeah. That's at the Lowbrow Book Club, if you're interested in joining us for some group theory reading.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then I just wanted to say this on the podcast because I said it in my newsletter and my friend texted me with a lot of questions about my new vocal stem, which is that I just realized at work the other day that I've started referring to everyone as brother, but, like, in a Hulk Hogan kind of way. Brother. Yeah. And she like, well, you just have to. You don't do the voice, but I do realize that you have to kind of hit it in a Hulk Hogan way. You just gotta do like a brother. I don't even know how to. I don't know how to do it out of context, but it's like, you just gotta hit it in a Hulk Hogan way where it's like, naturally. Yeah, it's happening naturally. And it's really taken over my vocabulary. And it's like, replace dude. It's replaced bro. Like, it's replaced everything. And I just love it so much. And I really highly recommend it to anyone out there who's looking to obsessively pick up a new little slang.

[A]

John will say brother sometimes, and I think it's so funny.

[B]

It's nice. It is funny. And I like the. I don't know. I like the friendliness of it. I like how personal it feels without. You can do, but you need to do it to strangers. I remember my old roommate Eduardo, when we first moved in this apartment, he would always. We would, like, walk around or we'd go to the bodega or whatever, and he's always say primo. And I was like, that's so sick. Do you know about this?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, Primo's like, cousin and. But it's like Spanish speakers say, like, primo. So he would, like, call everyone primo. And I was like, that's such a sick cool thing.

[A]

Like, I sounded cool even.

[B]

It sounds cool regardless.

[A]

Another word for, like, cool.

[B]

Right? Right. Totally, totally. But I think that's such a cute, friendly. I don't know. But Obviously, I can't. Me saying primo doesn't hit the same. So. So I'm. I'm adopting. I'm adopting a little wrestling, which is my culture, you know, it feel at home with me.

[A]

I mean, wrestling is very mess. It.

[B]

Wrestling is very mess. It's also very like pre teen me. So I feel like I'm returning to my roots in a way.

[A]

My bit of news for the month is that I set up a little Shopify shop to sell some of the leftover merch I had made for events and just hadn't. I just made too much. So for limited time only, there are some Flesh World bumper stickers.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And mirror clings available on the Internet. I think I, like, messed up the inventory count. I'm really bad at this. So I have bumper stickers that with like, my little newsletter catchphrase, you're gonna die someday, no matter how young you look on it. And I thought I put the right amount in the inventory and they sold out within, like 30 minutes. And I shipped everything, and I was like, wow, that sold out so quickly. But I had seven left over, so now there are seven more on the site because I think I just messed up the order somehow.

[B]

Listen, you're a writer. You're not an entrepreneur. You're just like, this is a side hustle.

[A]

I'm not a girl boss. I can't.

[B]

You're not girl bossing.

[A]

I can't handle this. So, yeah, if you're listening there, there still might be some. Some bumper stickers that you could steal from someone else.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you have great merch, too. People should get on it. I have. I don't think people. No, people can't see it, but I do have your. The get a honk on my. Get off my hole. Is that what it is?

[A]

Yes. Yes, I have.

[B]

It's up on my bookshelf. No one can see it from here, but.

[A]

So I made these bumper stickers for the whole debate, which I've done twice now. Once in New York, once in la. And one bumper sticker says, honk if you heart your hole. And the other says, get off my hole. And I think they're so funny.

[B]

They are.

[A]

I've had get off my hole on my car for two years now. And I had the most of those. I think I had, like, 38 ready to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Literally two of them have been sold. I'm like, this is the funniest one to me. Nobody wants get off the hole.

[B]

People are scared. They're scared. They're chickens.

[A]

Don't be scared.

[B]

Get your holes out there.

[A]

I get so many compliments on get off my hole.

[B]

So it's a great one. I recommend it.

[A]

Buy it now.

[B]

Buy it now.

[A]

Should we get into it?

[B]

Yeah. I wanted to just start by talking about truly the scourge of my industry, which is AI, of course. And that also that we learned this month what we all learned, already knew, really, which is that major publications are writing articles with AI instead of real writers, even though they have real writers on staff. Of course. I'm talking about Mary Claire Australia went viral, I think, just this week, actually, that we're recording this, and basically they published a story about the new Odyssey movie, and they forgot to delete the AI prompt at the end, and someone screenshotted it and it went around. So the AI prompt at the end of the article said, this version feels a little tighter and more magazine style. And quote, embracing his villain era lands more naturally than, quote, stepping into his villainous arc.

[A]

But it's so funny because that's just like, kind of like Internet slop talk. It's completely my blank era.

[B]

Yeah, it's completely Internet slop talk. And my question also immediately was like, does that read more naturally or does that just read more like, what a robot thinks is, like, natural, generic copy? Because you know what I mean? Like, they both read to me. And one actually sounds more like a human. Well, it's one stepping into his villainous arc. Sounds like a writer to me. I don't know. Versus, yes, exactly.

[A]

The other one sounds like a human who has been influenced by the algorithmic repetition of in my blank era and is just, like, mimicking it and repeating it.

[B]

What was the. Didn't you have a phrase for this that's like, algorithm lobotomy? Do you know what I'm talking about? I swear to God. On someone out there. Tell us. On another episode, I swear to God, you had some little phrase that you coined for, like, this type of, like, slo. AI slop writing that is like. It's like you take in the whole algorithm of the Internet and. But you are, like, lobotomized.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I'm riffing now. But, like, linguistic lobotomy.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. But I do feel like that is kind of what this is, because it's like, the stupidest person has been fed, like, you know, coated, pilled, like, just all the Internet slop words that we use. So, anyway, so that went viral. Everyone was very unhappy about it, obviously. And then the parent company of Mary Claire Australia R Media defended the practice, stating that the reporter used the prompt only to polish text and that it was, quote, in line with our media's AI policy and then they removed the article entirely. So, first of all, I gotta say from like a PR strategy, like, is it in line with your policy or is it not?

[A]

Because if you remove it, you're not

[B]

really kind of like sticking to your guns there in a way that makes me believe that, like, this was a thing that you're totally cool and okay with. And also, I imagine the traffic on that article is pretty banging, right?

[A]

Like, I know. I imagine ad clicks they got.

[B]

I imagine the rage clicks on that were like, probably better than anything Mary Claire Australia's ever published.

[A]

Is that going to be like the new media strategy and like rage, Like AI rage bait. Mistake Rage bait.

[B]

You know what it does remind me of is the way, of course, Kardashians. It reminds me of the way that the Kardashians leave Photoshop fails intentionally in their images so that people point them out and then get mad and it's more engagement and then people write about it. It feels very that. I mean, obviously they did not do this on purpose. This is not a strategy for them. But I do wonder if it could be now. Right? Because I imagine after seeing the success of a story like that being shared around and a nothing story, you know, a story that otherwise would be completely unremarkable, I do wonder if, cynically, people will start using that as a marketing tactic, which is so depressing.

[A]

There's also something really bleak about the fact that it was an AI generated article about the Odyssey, which is like sort of the origin of storytelling and literature and what it's been reduced to.

[B]

Yes, yeah, that too. And then also I was really struck by this idea that, well, they only used it to polish the text. And it's like, right, that's literally half your job as a writer. That's truly half your job. You write it and then you polish

[A]

it well, and it's kind of making the right. The actual writers worse at their jobs. Because they didn't scan it. Yeah, they didn't proofread it because they assumed the AI had proofread it and they left in this AI prompt.

[B]

But also I would say they're getting

[A]

worse at their jobs.

[B]

Absolutely. Absolutely. But also I would say if you can't read through your own writing and improve it and tighten it yourself, you are a bad writer. You are bad at your job. That is absolutely a part of your job, especially as a blogger on A website. I don't know. It's just maddening to me. And I think it just, especially this one, hit a nerve because it's like, I know that this is everyone in our industries. This is the bane of our existence. I do think a lot more major publications are doing this than we think they are. I know even at Interview, we've had issues with, like, interns and stuff using ChatGPT. And, like, of course I know it's the same problem they have in colleges is like, you just can't fucking prove it. And there's not. You know, it's like, all you can do is be like. My human brain senses that this is, like, too clean, like, too precise, like, too logical almost. I don't know. My associate editor, Emily, she's probably listening. Hamley, she said something really interesting to me, which is like, you can tell a human is writing something when, like, the sentence kind of meanders. Or you might, like, jam two ideas together that don't make necessarily logically make sense together. And she's like, that is so human and normal for a writer. And you break that up, you know, it's like. But when you see things kind of, like, too cleanly flowing, I don't know. I thought that was very insightful. And it's just, like, such an issue. And to me, I mean, I tell the interns this all the time, but I'm like, if you use chat, you don't want to be a writer. I don't know how to be any clearer about that.

[A]

Just, like, voice. You're able to pump out content, but you are not going to be memorable and hired or whatever. There's no voiceiness anymore.

[B]

I love voicey writers. Exactly. I love voicey. I mean, obviously, I think we're both very voicy writers, but it's like, also to me, it's like, if we are going to live through this AI apocalypse and writing is still going to exist on the other side of it, it's like, voice is literally the only thing we have. Voice is the one thing these robots can't fucking imitate and they can't replicate. So, like, cultivate it. That's the only way you're ever going to get a job in this dwindling industry where no one has jobs. If you sound like yourself, if you sound singular, and I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. Have you ever asked AI to write like you, or have you ever experimented with it? I did it once. It was very intriguing.

[A]

It can't mimic You.

[B]

No, it's so, it's so. I just wanted to see what it would do because it's like, I think my writing is so insane. Like, I just think it is so singularly a product of my weird brain. Like, I don't think even. I mean, there's no way to mimic you, right? I just don't. I, like, I've often thought, like, I don't even know how to get like guest writers to come in because it's like what I do is truly a product of just like my sick, twisted mind. Like, I can't inflict that on someone else. But I wanted to see if the computer could do it. It really, really cannot. It's really pathetic. And that makes me feel good. And it should make all writers feel good. But you have to have a fucking point of view. Anyway, I also just wanted to bring this up because I just thought it was so funny because there's actually. When I was in the height of my blogging, in my pit of blogging for all these websites, I actually used to think about that AI and having a computer write these idiotic clickbait regurgitated stories that are pumped across every website would be a huge boon to real writers because, like, if you could farm out all of the stupid clickbait blogs that are just to like meet traffic goals or whatever, and you could liberate all your real human writers to like actually research and like write well reported long form stuff and pursue their interests and cultivate their voices, like, how liberating and beautiful would that be? And you could get all these dumb suits off your back who are like, well, we have to meet these metrics and we have to make this ad revenue by just like farming it out to a computer. Because they don't want personality, they don't want tone in those stories anyway. But of course, this is very idealistic because that's not how capitalism works. Like, they would never, they would never see this as an opportunity to pay

[A]

the audience to want a specific thing. And I think people are being trained to want just like slop, easy to read ChatGPT generated slop, rather than these like unique reported features.

[B]

And then of course, but this to me is also the myth. This is to me is the maddening loop of publishing. Because publishing's like, we're a dying industry. It's so confusing. Like, why does no one want to. It's, well, you're pumping them full of AI clickbait slop. And even if it's not AI, it certainly feels that way. Like, and you're reading the same tabloid story on every single website, and it's

[A]

all pulled from Instagram, so it's like, you didn't even need to read the story.

[B]

Thank you. Yes, it's all pulled from Instagram, so if you had just scrolled to your faves feed, you would have seen exactly what you're reading about now. And then they're like, it's so weird, but we have to meet these crazy, ever growing traffic goals.

[A]

The scary thing to me is, like, you know, different eras have different writing styles. Like, you can pick something out and be like, oh, that's like early 2000s writing. Or that's like 2010s feminism writing. Like, the tone changes with, like, time and trends, which is just normal. And I feel like real people are sort of writing like a chatbot now and talking like a chatbot, because that's more in the culture and that's like, what we're absorbing, and so that's what's coming out.

[B]

And, like, I also think they're using chatbots, frankly. Like, I, you know, it's like one to one, it's like they're writing like that, and then they're putting it through the chatbot to make it sound more like that.

[A]

I read like, it's not this, it's that my brain starts to think in. It's not that.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

It's that it's even worse. Like, you know, and so my brain is making those associations and I have to, like, remind myself, like, no, this is a. A symptom of AI writing.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You could come up with better framing.

[B]

I also think it's a symptom of the content factory that we've produced. It's the same. People in fashion talk about this a lot too, about, there's no good design, there's no good ideas, really. Or good ideas are kind of beaten into the ground. Because if you're showing eight 12 collections a year, you don't really get to iterate. You don't really get to have deep thoughts or be creative or have inspiration. And I don't know, I think it's the same thing with blogging. It's like they're making you. I mean, if Andy Farah is writing five articles a day in four hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So no, there's like, no way to do it. You know what I mean? There's. There's not a lot of room for these conditions. Right. And there's not a lot of room to be a person or to have a tone or a point of view or. Or honestly even to like, take in the content, like, let it sit with you and then create your own response to it. Because it's like, well, you have 20 minutes to write 250 words. Yeah. You got to figure it out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, it's just a holy nightmare that I just find fascinating.

[A]

Yeah, there are a few.

[B]

Well, I was just. I just remembered also. Have you looked into the new Substack AI whatever thing the tech they've given us to like prove that you're real or fake or whatever the fuck Substack

[A]

has collaborated with Panagram, I believe it's called. I don't know, to detect whether substack writing, whether it's a post on substack or a note is AI generated. Yes. I'm going to look it up right now. So I don't misspeak, but I believe. Isn't Panagram AI?

[B]

I do think so. Yeah. I do think it's an AI tool. It's telling you if you're a human or AI. I also just love the framing of it.

[A]

Yeah. It's a artificial intelligence detection company and software designed to identify. It's like, perfect.

[B]

What could go wrong. And it's studying all of our writing and collecting the data on how humans write versus how computers write. What could go wrong, Jess?

[A]

So I had kind of a dilemma about this the other day where when I went to go publish something, it said, do you want to enable the Panagram thing on this to let people check if it was AI detected? And I said, no. And I was like, worried that people are gonna be like, oh, she turned it off. It's because it's AI generated. But I'm like, I just don't want to be a part of that in any way.

[B]

Me neither.

[A]

I think you can tell

[B]

again if you think that my newsletter or your newsletter is made by an AI bot, like, you need to read more or something. I don't know what to tell you. Wild. There's a lot of writing on subset. That's a chatbot. I'll tell you that. It's. It's much easier to detect. If we're doing chatbots, we're doing it very well. High end chatbots.

[A]

No, I just. I turned it off and I'm not going to be using it and I'm not going to be like checking other people's work. And I think it's weird.

[B]

I can, for the most part, honestly, I can tell. And also I know a lot of the people who newsletter as I read And I know if they would be using that or not. And I don't read people who would use that. So, yeah, I'm not worried.

[A]

You know who I don't read anymore, please? Gia Tolentino.

[B]

Yeah, I got a feeling.

[A]

Critic at the New Yorker. That's kind of a joke. The thing is, it's like I've admired Gia's writing for a really long time, of course, in some pieces, but so of course in the New Yorker.

[B]

I admire what she's up to, though.

[A]

Well, who knows what she's up to? I'm just so confused about all of this. So this month, Diatlelentino wrote a piece for the New Yorker called Our Plastic Surgery Nightmare, which is just about plastic surgery culture right now and how it's, you know, sort of taking us away from reality and perhaps from our own humanity. And this piece has sort of become my plastic surgery writing nightmare because. And I wrote about this on my newsletter a little bit, but so she quotes me in it. There was a lot of buzz when this piece came out because it's kind of, you know, Gia's thing is that she takes something that's happening in the culture that's already very big in the culture, and she sort of, like, analyzes it and synthesizes it in her own unique way. So with the kind of plastic surgery discourse that's been happening over the past, you know, year or so, this feels kind of like behind the ball. You know, we've been doing this discourse. So it came out and a lot of people were like, this sounds like what I've written. This sounds like what I've written. Gia's, like, plagiarizing all of us. And I was like, no, it's just that we're all talking about this.

[B]

It's in the zeitgeist.

[A]

Yeah, it's in the zeitgeist. But, okay, so she quotes me.

[B]

But it turns out.

[A]

But it turns out she did me dirty. I feel so ji. Ah. Quotes me in this piece. She doesn't name me. I'm a Guardian columnist. And she quotes me in a section on the, quote, grim state of the current media environment in which, quote, critique of anything has become radically attenuated. So that's the section I'm under, which I was like, we know you.

[B]

Radically attenuated, for sure. Always interesting.

[A]

So her quote is. Is as follows. She writes, Last year, a 36 year old woman asked a Guardian advice columnist. That's me, if it was wrong to judge her peers for getting facelifts or even to judge herself for kind of wanting to get a facelift as a result. The columnist replied supportively, it is a little weird that beauty culture is convincing so many people to surgically saw off some of their facial skin and sew it back on tighter before adding, am I being judgmental? Yes. But judgment, like mimetic desire, is both human and unavoidable. She goes on to say, this exquisitely careful tone indicates the caution of a woman writing in the delicate space between the slightly ironized worship and heavily ironized contempt that now dominate the Internet. And I'm just like, this is the first time in my life I have been called careful or cautious or delicate. Like, what I'm just shocked by because the insults thrown at me on a weekly basis are like, fear mongering, asshole bitch who's radicalizing people, communist, radical, feminist. Just like, how

[B]

I'm kind of actually lost from the first part of that where she says, you replied supportively. Is that supportive? That doesn't seem supportive to me. To be like, yeah, it is kind of weird that you want to, like, hack off a part of your face. It's like, I don't read that as supportive. I read that as, like, cheekily, like, pointing out the strangeness of the whole situation, literally.

[A]

And I mean, I went line by line in my newsletter, so I'll put that in the show notes if people want to read more. But basically, the idea of, like, describing facelift as surgically sawing off some of your facial skin and sewing it back on tighter, in what world is that supportive, careful or cautious? I just don't understand how somebody could read that and be like, wow, this is a really not strong criticism. This is really a balancing act.

[B]

She's like, she's walking a real tightrope here. Wow, she's appeasing both sides. I will tell you, though, that after I read that line from you, I've been really inspired to start, like, instead of using the words facelift, I'm like, hacking off a lump of your skin from your face. It's very fun to say to people.

[A]

It's so fun to say to people. And the other reason this part pisses me off so much is I actually had to, like, like, go back and forth with my editor to keep that in. They were like, it's a little much. And I was like, I think it's very powerful to restate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These things in terms of what's actually happening rather than using, like, the sanitized, medicalized language. So I won't keep it in. So Just the fact that there was a tension there for the exact opposite reason that Gia Tolentino is saying that line is bad.

[B]

I also, as someone who's known you for quite a long time now and has heard many of your stories about, like, going through the editing process with any pieces that you, like, actually publish at major outlets, it's been nothing but them, like, moderating you, like, like making your language less harsh and like, less hard hitting and like, pulling you back constantly. I mean, even the. The story that we've talked about on the podcast with like the eugenics thing. I mean, think about that. Like, they literally cut out the whole section about Nazis, which is the whole story. And it's like, right. That is your experience at every major publication that you write for about beauty is them being like, whoa, Nelly. Like, that's crazy talk.

[A]

Yeah. You need to be more careful and cautious. And I say both of that. I'm not publishing here. I'll just publish it on my newsletter where I can be less careful and cautious. Yeah. So I was just like shocked and offended by the whole thing. I really think she just, like, to me, this proves she's, like, not doing a lot of research in the beauty space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I think, like, yeah, no.

[B]

Well, yes.

[A]

I just, like, I don't think she knows who I am. Not like, do you know who I am? But, like, she just was clearly not familiar with any of my other work. Maybe.

[B]

I don't know. I think that's an incredibly generous read of the situation. I think, like, maybe, potentially, possibly, I am much more skeptical of that perspective. Just because, like, the level of fact checking you even have to do at a New Yorker article, it's like the level of journalist that she is and how rigorous she tends to be in general in her work. It's like the idea that she doesn't know who you are. I just can't. I can't believe it. And I don't mean that in a way as, like, you're so famous, she must know who you are. I mean that quite literally. Like, if you are reading your Guardian column, which you are the columnist of every month, and you're quoting it, you wouldn't click the through to the author or, like, read the about section and be curious about who you're quoting. I don't believe that. And also, again, you downsell yourself. But, like, you are literally the biggest beauty newsletter on all of substack.

[A]

This is true. I can so to be talking, but

[B]

I'm just saying to be. To be so confidently making These assertions about you as well as the entire beauty space and how the industry talks about these issues and how they like couch it for women and like, like apologize and backtrack. It's like, that is super fucking weird when you're talking about the biggest beauty newsletter writer who explicitly doesn't do those things. Explicitly.

[A]

Well, that's the other thing is like, there's so much of that, of what she is talking about on the Internet. Why not. Why highlight those articles? That's actually, like, this is actually really empowering.

[B]

That's what I mean. Because I just feel like it's, it's truly a click away to see like, oh, who is Jessica Defino who I'm quoting? Yeah. Oh, actually she's a bad example of this. Maybe look at the body of workshop she has. Maybe I just find literally the 20 million other articles on like Allure or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That are perfect examples of that. I think it's weird.

[A]

Exists. Just like not exists robustly.

[B]

It exists hugely, especially in women's media. It exists. It is the only way people write about beauty in women's media. And so to. I don't know, I find it odd and I find it odd to leave your name out of it. Honestly. I just find it strange. Like if you're going to quote someone, use their name, give them a chance to, like.

[A]

Well, I sometimes if I'm quoting somebody and it's not like I'm not saying something nice about them or, you know, I'm. It's. It's usually when I'm not talking about the individual. If I'm talking about like a larger industry trend or like, this is how beauty culture talks or this is what's happening in the industry at large. I won't, I sometimes won't quote the individual writer. I'll say, you know, Marie Claire Australia did this, blah, blah, blah, which she. I mean, because it's like I'm trying to make a larger cultural point or point about the industry. And I don't want to implicate a writer who is just like, random blog, pump out six stories a day. And of course they're not going to be, you know, factual completely or whatever. So I, I do that myself a lot. But I do think it's weird that she didn't name me when she specifically she's. What does she say? She calls me like the caution of a woman writing in this delicate space. So like, to call me a cautious woman writing in the delicate space is singling me out rather than saying a larger Industry trend or something. And that's where I think, like, you know, just say it to my face, I guess.

[B]

Just say it to your face. I find it very strange.

[A]

I also, I just have to say I think it's so absurd to single me out for not going hard enough against beauty culture. When Gia Tolentino promoted her book Trick Mirror and the like big essay from it against optimization about beauty culture with an into the Gloss feature in which she promotes lash extensions because you can wear no makeup at all and still feel like you look a little bit better than normal. Like, I would love to see some deconstruction of that in this New Yorker piece. Gia, how has plastic surgery culture warped your idea of reality and what's normal?

[B]

Maybe this is your next essay. Maybe you need to deconstruct her into the gloss profile.

[A]

Maybe I do.

[B]

And never name her. Never name her. Just say like a random.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Influencer on into the Gloss. A journalist influencer. She also extensions.

[A]

She suggested it Cosmetics, Confidence in a foundation and Shani Darden Retinol. That on the site is promoted as a skin refining tripeptide to deliver youthful looking skin. So I'm like, okay, if these are the kind of product recommendations you made. Granted this was many years ago, seven years ago. But I want to see some, some acknowledgement of that self analysis writing on the beauty industry. Because I analyze my old self all the time and say I was a fucking idiot. Don't read my old stuff.

[B]

Yes, I would like this woman at the New Yorker writing in this delicate space to perhaps be a little more introspect about her own relationship to beauty and how she's quoting people in the space. In this delicate space. It's important to mention it's delicate.

[A]

Yes. There's one delicate issue that was not covered in her piece, which I think is weird for like this big overarching story on plastic surgery today, which is there is no mention of gender affirming care and plastic surgery for trans people, which like there is an attack on the availability of that in our government and the stigma of that is informing like undetectable work that's proliferating right now. And I just think that's like kind of a glaring omission if you're going to write one big overarching piece on the state of beauty culture.

[B]

I do agree. I do feel like that is kind of like you've got to put that one sentence in every piece you write about plastic surgery like that because it is important and it is under attack.

[A]

I mean, I Don't put it in plastic surgery.

[B]

But I'm writing something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All encompassing. So overarching. I feel like you have to at least dedicate a sentence to just mention like, hey, so sometimes, like sometimes people get gender affirming care and it's okay.

[A]

Well, and it's also just like a big part of like she writes about, you know, this super feminization that's happening to women with plastic surgery and like hyper masculinization that's happening to men with looks maxing and like, like that is in reaction to an attack on trans rights and gender affirming care. So to leave it out is wild to me.

[B]

And also like, so obviously a response to like our fear at not of trans people not being able to detect gender or like non binary people and not knowing like, what are you. Like I have to be able to categorize you. So it's like the two genders moving further to extremes that are. It's obviously a circle and they come back together into a weird non binary plastic surgery space almost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I'm kind of fascinated by, honestly, like the.

[A]

Okay, I want to more. I like that. Yeah.

[B]

It literally just occurred to me. But I'm like it is kind of forming its own new like gender aesthetic gender. I don't know. Something to think about.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

That's my rant for Gia to think about.

[A]

I guess that's my little Gia rant.

[B]

Well, thank you for that. And now I'm going to go on a very, very brief rant because I hate talking about this, but I do just want to express some thoughts because. Can you believe that Taylor and T.R. travis got married this month?

[A]

It feels so long ago.

[B]

Can you believe that fairy tale fantasy happened just at the beginning of July? I can't. I was swept away with the magic and the wonder. And I would just like. I just have a few quick points I need to make about that wedding. Obviously we haven't really seen any of it, so I can't speak too in depth. I do have a little bit of insider knowledge about some things that were inside from people who know. But I would just like to start. I wanted to start by giving them both a compliment on their wedding. It was extremely them.

[A]

It was every detail about it.

[B]

I do believe they liked and they enjoyed and this is what I think they both wanted. And to their credit, I'll give them that. You know, is it good? No. It's one of the tackiest things I've ever seen in my entire life. And that's really As a connoisseur of tacky things that is really saying something. Thing hideous. Really, truly a hideous capitalist affair from top to bottom in a psychotic way that, like, I. She really one upped herself. And like, it's just beyond my wildest imagination, every choice beyond my wildest imagination that this is a choice someone would make for their personal, private, untelevised wedding. Because it really feels like a. Like a television spectacular. It feels like a Kim Kardashian Kris Humphries wedding.

[A]

Like, is this.

[B]

They're gonna sell it, right?

[A]

Pictures. Are we getting a.

[B]

A special Netflix special, I assume.

[A]

Something I don't.

[B]

I bet. Oh, you know what? I actually bet we're gonna get a Netflix special that's like their love story and then it culminates in the wedding footage. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Like a Meghan and Harry sort of thing.

[B]

Exactly. Like a Megan. I wasn't even thinking them, but that's exactly what it's gonna be like. A Megan and Harry, like, love story against all odds. Everybody wanted them to, like, break up and they hated them and they had to, like, fight for their love. And then they got married at msg. I think that's exactly what going to be good for them. Become trillionaires. Why not? Why not? So I just wanted to list some of my complaints quickly. One July 4th weekend. Psychotic. Psychotic choice. Rude. Crazy rude. Because let me just say, for people who don't live in New York City, it's already a bad weekend. It's already a very, very bad weekend here. It's like choosing the weekend that they light the Christmas tree in Rockefeller Plaza and be like. And we will have our wedding in Rockefeller Plaza and you will stay out of it. Tourists and losers. It's like, okay, great, perfect. And the shutting down of the trains. Whatever. She gave them money and that's supposed to fix everything. So we're not allowed to complain about that. Yes, I'm right there with you. But she gave. Technically, they gave them millions and millions of dollars. And so we don't get to complain about how rude and difficult and horrific this made everyone who lives here's life for a weekend. Fine. I don't like the choice of date, regardless of. Regardless of the traffic problem. I just think. Again, corny, tacky, cheesy. Yeah, I. I know. It's like a whole numbers thing and she's adding it up to her favorite numbers. And the July 4th.

[A]

What is. What was the thing?

[B]

Oh, the date. It adds up to. I don't 7 or 13 or so she has a favorite. You're asking, like, way too much of my Taylor Swift knowledge. She has some special number. I think it's 13, and I think the date adds up to that. And so all the, you know, all the private eyes who are in her fan base were, like, crunching the numbers and really making some cork boards with some red string about that. Also, she loves July 4th. I don't know. That reads very maga to me, but that's cool. Her husband is maga, so that makes sense. Also, honestly, I just, you know, it's making me nostalgic for the simpler times when I did just have to, like, see Taylor Swift posts that, like, 500 photos of her and her girlfriends in bikinis on the 4th of July. It's like, simpler times. Yeah, I kind of miss it now. Kind of miss it.

[A]

I mean, that was its own media frenzy.

[B]

It was its own media frenzy. And now it just feels so tame in the light of this wedding, honestly. And everything about her. Okay, next thing that I find unbearably tacky. The raffle prizes.

[A]

I cannot believe that was real. That was real.

[B]

I can't either, because again, every detail I read about this wedding, I think, surely this is a lot being perpetrated by tree pain to, like, see how stupid and gullible we are. And then I'm seeing people post the prizes that they won, and I'm like, oh, they did it. They did it. And again, I just. I think that's very tacky and gauche and why raffle? You could literally buy every guest you have at car, Literally give every guest a car and a Chanel bag. Like, why are we raffling off prizes? And also, the raffle makes me think that it's. There's some sort of weird tax loophole happening here. And I'm not an accountant, so I can't put my finger on that or say that definitively. I just think when you giving away door prizes, you're entering, like, weird charity zone. And all the money they gave to the city, all the money they gave to the city is also a tax write off because that's charity or whatever. And so I just feel like I'm suspicious. I'm just suspicious of everything going on here. I feel like they have some evil genius accountants who have, like, gotten them out of paying for all of this somehow through, like, writing it off via raffles. I don't know. Here's my second complaint about the raffle. That Chanel bag that she raffled on off. Hideous. Hideous. It's just. It's the one that everybody has. It's the knockoff. It's. Everybody has a knockoff. I see this bag, okay, I work near Canal street, so I literally see like the hot bags that everybody's buying fakes of. This is the bag that everyone's buying fakes of. It has the two flaps that go up.

[A]

I'm looking at it.

[B]

You know what I'm talking about. We'll insert a picture in the video version. But I mean, if you guys know anything about the new Chanel bags everyone's buying, you know what bag I'm talking about. It's kind of a tote situation. Not a tote, but it's open on top. It's got two flappies on the side. It's very overdone. Everybody has it. And my point is just like, again, you are a billionaire raffling off a Chanel bag for some reason. Do better. At the very least, make it like a one of one or, you know, like have Matthew Blasey make a custom Taylor Swift wedding Chanel bag that only you own. Or some like super rare exclusive from the archives or. Or like previously owned by Marilyn Monroe. I don't. I don't know. But you, like, come on. If we're gonna raffle off weird crap, we could. Let's raffle off some weird crap that people care about and actually want to have. Not like something I can buy in the Chanel store today. Also. Everyone can buy.

[A]

If that was on the RealReal for $50, I wouldn't even buy it. Like, it's so. It's boring.

[B]

But also, you were talking about. I agree, but you were also just talking about a room full of multi millionaires who literally could step outside into the chane elsewhere and purchase that day. Same with the car. They could just go by that. That is not like. You gotta flex a little harder for flexing like that. Sorry. Okay, I got. I got like four more to go through. And I swear I'm done with this. Their. Their wedding outfits. So this is probably. Why can't I think of proprietary. This is proprietary knowledge I have. I'm not going to. I'm not going to expose what they wore, but let me just tell you that if these photos ever come out, Mess is gonna have a fucking field day. This is gonna be like a Fourth of July Christmas. Like, this is my Super Bowl.

[A]

Excited.

[B]

These are two nightmare outfits that they're exactly what you think they are. Honestly, that's all I can say when this photo of Travis Kelce comes Out at his wedding. I will be dining out for months. It's so. It's exactly what you think it is. It's exactly what you think it is. That's all I can say.

[A]

Like, trying to think what I think it is. Is it a white tuxedo with tails?

[B]

Not. Not. No.

[A]

That's what my dad wore in 1984 when he got the.

[B]

That was the time for it. And I'll just say there were some excesses. There are some accessories that are going to be memeified.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Because this.

[A]

It's like what he wore during the concert. I can't. I can't.

[B]

Yes. Oh, God. So that's a personal hell that I'll have to live through one day that I. Again, I'm hoping that this footage was burned. I hope we never see it. The next complaint I'd like to lodge the guest list. What? Who are these people to you? Do you know these people? I feel like many in the room she'd never met before. It was just vibes.

[A]

It really felt that way.

[B]

It felt like if you were in a certain circle of pop culture fame, you got the invite. And it also seems like there, I don't know, it feels like a guest list made in a marketing boardroom. Cause it's like they're like, gotta hit this demo. Gotta make sure we have some diversity there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gotta get touch on that touchstone. This. You know, it's like it's the same thing that, honestly, it's the same thing that she was doing in the not the Eras tour, the 1989 tour where she was bringing out the squads. It's very squad coded where it's like, what she's actually doing is co opting those women's fan bases into her own. But what it looks like is this great show of feminist generosity, of like, we're all on the same playing field and I'm all lifting up my girls. Like, it's like, that's. It's marketing. It's a marketing ploy. But that's exactly what this guest list feels like to me. It's is like a marketing ploy. Like, what. Who have. What fan bases haven't I touched? Like, who can I leverage to get more attention and more eyes on the spectacle?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Here's a random soccer player. Here's a random actor I've never met. Here's Brad Pitt for no reason.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'm surprised.

[A]

I'm surprised.

[B]

And also some of the ghost choices, like a Brad Pitt. Like, are we not doing our Due diligence about. Right. Are we reading the tabloids? Are we looking into. Are we doing background checks of any kind? The guest list tells me no. There's a few people on that guest list that are telling me no, and we don't care. But I was just very. I thought that was kind of like, sloppy, honestly, from like a. They're just such a controlled couple, and they're so controlled about narrative. I thought that was like a weird, sloppy mistake that doesn't. Didn't need to happen.

[A]

Yeah, I. They just probably don't care. I don't know.

[B]

They probably don't care. It's kind of. I think it's like at a. It's a too big to fail situation. You know what I mean? Like, nothing can touch me. Cancellation doesn't. She likes her friends Canceled, I believe is a lyric in one of her songs.

[A]

So she likes him cloaked in Gucci and in scandal.

[B]

Right. Poor Gucci really took a hit from that one. Yeah. You know, I guess I'll skip to the point of Brad Pitt at all. Did you see in my newsletter the image of him from the wedding that I included? Because that is high art and that honestly made the whole wedding worth it to me. For those who didn't see Brad Pitt's girlfriend, I'm not going to remember her name. I think it's Inez something.

[A]

Inez something.

[B]

Inez. I'm not going to remember her last name right now. That's okay. Brad Pitt's girlfriend posted this photo of the two of them at Taylor Swift's wedding, and she facetuned this man into oblivion. He doesn't even have a face. He is like a smudge. It's like a smudge on the lens. It's a thumbprint. It's like nothing. I love it. It's so good. I have. So good. And it's such, like, a logical conclusion for Brad Pitt because, you know, he's been doing all these little tweaks and tight ends with his facelifts and whatnot. Allegedly, I guess. But I think we can all see with our eyes. And so anyway, he's been going through all that, so I was just like, of course. It's so beautiful for you to end up in kind of a Kris Jenner, Dina Lohan place where you're just, like, so disassociated from what the human face looks like and what you should be looking like at your age that you just, like, blur. Tool yourself into nothingness.

[A]

Oh. And

[B]

yes, it's total dysmorphia. I do think. I don't know, I always talk about this, but I do think there's some sort of like social media facetune dysmorphia that we are going to have to diagnose in the future. Because, like, what these women are getting up to is like, it's. It's not. I don't know, it's a different level. It's a break from reality in a very simple way. You know, she was right. After all. It turns out no one said it before. No one ever said it before. And she was so brave to be the first one to say it. And she should let Brad Pitt know. But. Oh, you know, what I was gonna say is Brad Pitt, when I was trying to describe him, it just conjured up the memory of that art book club rear of Cassandra. I think her name is from Doctor who. It's very that. It's very that. Just a piece of skin stretched taut across a board. And that is Brad Pitt in this image. I love it. Everyone go check it out. We'll put it in the video. Last two points. One, the font, terrible. The graphic design, abysmal. What are we doing here?

[A]

Just and T married.

[B]

Just and T is insane. And you really couldn't come up with the best minds in the biz couldn't come up with a more catchy catchphrase that the.

[A]

The most celebrated lyricist of our generation and we got just nt like Taylor

[B]

girl, I know you're not like a madman. You're not. You're not on Madison Avenue like creating advertisements. But like you are supposed to be the greatest lyric. You could do better. You could do. Everybody could do better. Just TNT was crazy and it looked like an AT&T ad as we all know. Part of me still wonders if it is. I think it was cynically. Part of me still wonders, was it not? Yeah, that is the question I kind of find myself, but I just am. I'm shocked at the graphic design and the fonts that were used. And it just seems lazy to me. And cheap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Again, there's just a level of money here that's not vibing with the product that I'm seeing put forth. And I don't understand why. And it is equivalent to like her fashion. I feel like in a similar way, you know, where it's like, it doesn't make sense.

[A]

This like is her style, unfortunately.

[B]

This is her tail. That's what I mean though, when my compliment. It's extremely thick. Them. I don't like it, but I do believe it. And Then my last point. The only thing that was good that came out of this wedding for me. And the only important thing is, of course, the mystery dog makes big debut, which is a turn of phrase that I'm using and abusing, much like calling people brother. Mystery dog makes big debut was a Page Six headline for. They got these photos of. I guess Taylor and Travis have a situation. Samoa Samoy Dog. I don't know how you say that name. Anyway, they have a dog that apparently no one knew about and no one's ever seen. And so the dog was, like, getting off of their private jet at Trump International Airport, by the way. Just want to put that out there. I think that's funny. And so Page Six wrote this headline and said, mystery dog makes big debut in Florida. And I just think that's so funny. The idea of a mystery dog making their big debut, I'm obsessed with.

[A]

In Florida.

[B]

All I ever want is mystery dogs to make their big debut. I think the world would be better if mystery dogs were making their big debut on, like, a weekly basis. For sure. Yes. Anyway, so those are my major complaints about the wedding.

[A]

I'm ready now to say. I can't believe that Carolyn Calloway's Ozempic essay was published in July, too. It already feels so long ago.

[B]

The discourse has been so fast and furious about it. I also can't believe it was. It's just this month. So much has happened.

[A]

I know know so much has happened. But it was a July news item, so I feel like I want to talk about it a little bit, Please. For those who, you know, have been blessedly unaware, Carolyn Calloway wrote an essay on using Ozempic for Byline. Basically saying, like, nothing tastes as good as my fraudulently acquired Ozempic feels. It's called the drug that Made Me Want Less. She says it delivers a quieter appetite for everything and almost like that's what the drug does.

[B]

So crazy.

[A]

So weird. It's so weird. But you know what? I came up with a name because I was like, this is. This is just, like, revamped Pro Anna content from the early 2000s, for sure. And I was like, what. What should we call it when it's like, Pro Ozempic and I think I want to call it. It's. It's Glop Slop. Glp.

[B]

Glop Slop Slop. That's fun.

[A]

So this is like, Pro Anna Glop Slop is what I'm gonna say.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

But what really bothered me about the essay, obviously Was that she, like, outlines her height, her starting weight, her ending weight, how she tricked doctors into giving her a prescription when she need one.

[B]

Like, all good pro Anna Content. You have to tell the people how you did it, and you have to give them your measurements to make sure that you did it right. You know, everybody knows the rules.

[A]

We all grew up for, you know, cheating the. The medical system and giving yourself an injectable eating disorder.

[B]

Inspired.

[A]

You know, I'm just gonna say this is not. I'm not, like, anti GLP1. Like, obviously there's plenty of people I know who are on them for, like, medical reasons, and they've enrich their lives or whatever. Whatever, Whatever. This essay was very much saying, I want to be skinny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the world is better for skinny people. And I. This has made me less healthy. She's, like, puking every day, unable to get out of bed. She says she only gets out of bed to clean her puke so that her cat will eat her puke. And she still finds it better than being 20 pounds heavier.

[B]

Well, because the thesis of this essay is like, hey, you ever want to be anorexic, but, like, don't have the willpower. Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I got the drug for you ladies. Like, let's. Let's do this thing.

[A]

Yeah. So that's just the background. The thing that I can't stop thinking about with this piece is that she has this compulsion. She says it at least three times in the piece that she. She says, I have a pathological compulsion for writing sentences that no one has ever said before. She says, again, in this day and age, is it even possible to say things no one has ever said before?

[B]

No.

[A]

A quote then is, first, ozempic will make you skinny, and then being skinny will make the world kinder to you if you're a woman. Then after that, if you have a hedonistic brain chemistry that skews always toward addiction, like a fucking heat seeking missile, GLP1s will subdue you in a way that feels like peace. Am I allowed to write this? Am I the first? And it's like, Caroline, that everyone thinks that. Everyone says that. That is like the. The thesis of beauty culture, of diet culture.

[B]

Like, it's literally one of the most boring thoughts you can have.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Like, what is it that's making you think this is an original thought or an original way to say it? This is the foundation, like, being a solipsist. And I'm like, I feel like it's such an interesting parallel to beauty culture, which Is unoriginal group think that you're conditioned to think and then you're conditioned to think. It's your unique self expression. And I'm like, this.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

This is like beauty culture working on your brain. That's true in a way. Like, she val. She's saying she values originality in her writing, but then she's writing about not valuing originality in her body also.

[B]

Sorry, I've read her writing. She doesn't value originality. She does not value originality. She thinks she does.

[A]

But like, if the valuing originality. If she's valuing unoriginality in her body, she wants like a homogenously beautiful thin body.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And she's thinking that her unoriginal thoughts are very original. I'm just like, is this like a beauty culture brain thing where you just don't. You've like lost touch, I guess.

[B]

Like, or maybe she really is a special snowflake and having unique and different experience of life that no one's ever experienced before and that experiences thinness.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That experience is starving maybe. You know what, when you're very, very hungry, you don't think clearly and you don't think. Well, that's what I was going to say. Perhaps you don't think it's original.

[A]

I don't. I don't want to go so far as to say like, oic makes you stupid, but I do think beauty culture makes people stupid. Like, it's like the foregoing common sense for the sake of being more beautiful.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And literally undernourishment or malnourishment is linked with decreased cognitive function. So I just feel like we're getting to this point in the culture where like, everyone is beautiful and no one can think clearly, everyone is thin and nobody is having coherent thoughts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't know. Also in this month there was a story in the Wall Street Journal. The headline was, they used GLP1s to lose weight. They ended up in treatment for anorexia. So like in certain people it is like inducing actual like life threatening eating disorders. Like, this is a public health issue.

[B]

And yeah, I mean, just also the thing that Caroline's citing that she enjoys so much is literally control, control over her body, control over her mind, control over eating. Like, and that is part of a disordered relationship with food. It's like I have to control. I have to beat my body into submission essentially. Like, yes, completely.

[A]

And like, literally the last sign in the essay is like, I recommend this. So it's like, she is telling people to do it. She's not just recounting her own.

[B]

And she gave you the blueprint.

[A]

She is like, you should do this, and here's exactly how to do it.

[B]

And which, again, is the formula of all pro Anna content that has existed on the Internet since the dawn of the Internet, is like, here is the exact formula about how to, like, waste away and get away with with it in a way that, like, is publicly acceptable. Like, that is kind of the.

[A]

Yeah, that's the. Of the genre.

[B]

Right. It's so depressing. I would. I mean, I've had Caroline Calloway muted on literally every platform since I found out that she is a thing that exists. But I will say the last. I was taking a poll at the office and kind of saying, like, well, what do you think? And it's like, we all kind of came to the consensus that the last time that we were genuinely interested in Caroline Calloway was when her ex best friend wrote an essay about her.

[A]

Her.

[B]

And it's like, that was enough. Yeah, we're like, all okay. Actually, like, we're good on that. We can check out on that.

[A]

Downfall really started when she. For me, when she started overlining her lips and being like, I don't use lip filler. Here's how I make my lips look so pouty. And I was like, this isn't Hallmark that you are more influenced than you are influencing. And there's nothing that you could share that I would be.

[B]

That's very Kendall Jenner of her.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, very Kendall Jenner. I'm just overlining. I didn't get lip injections. I'm overlining my lips. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. It was like the faux lip injection to real semiglutide injection pipeline.

[B]

I'm kind of more curious. I don't give a shit about this essay. It's bad. Obviously, I think that's very obvious from the title to the actual text. But my question is kind of like, did Byline publish this as, like, their attempt at a. The cut style, like, rage bait?

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Because doesn't it feel like way like. Yeah, they don't really publish stuff like this. And they certainly are. Like, there's plenty of good enough editors and writers on staff that, like, they know that's not, like, a good, interesting essay. Surely.

[A]

I'm not super familiar with what Byline's publishing these days, but I've seen some pieces on there that I'm like, did anybody read or edit this at all?

[B]

Sure. I'm not super in depth with them, it just seems like so, I don't know. I, I don't think.

[A]

Yeah, it's the cut rage bait formula for sure.

[B]

Like let the SAs fall on their own sword, you know, like, let them think they're really cooking and doing something and then let the Internet tell them that they're stupid. Is the cuts formula.

[A]

Exactly. That's cool, but that's it.

[B]

Good for her. Okay, I just wanted to give people a quick update on one of my trends of the year. We've seen a lot of examples this month. Well, I guess first of all, let me just give you a quick, quick catch up on some trends of the past that we've talked about. One, there was like five more chickens this month.

[A]

So much chicken.

[B]

There's so much chicken. Chickens abound. No surprise to anyone there. I don't even want to go through it because you know what the vibes are. I want to say there was another exposed butt crack on primetime tv. Ariana Maddox wore a dress with her butt out on Love Island Us. And which prompted me to say that crack is now normcore and crack is not exciting any longer. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if you're seeing butt crack on mainstream television, like, who the cares?

[A]

Like it's, you know, what is whole. So hunk if you heart your whole. I'm waiting or get off my hole.

[B]

I've been waiting for someone to get their hole out and nobody's doing it. Even, like a bedazzled butt plug. Oh, my God. You know what? I've been, I've been dming with this porn star about putting looks together for her for the award season. And I should tell her she should consider a bedazzled butt plug. It could really be something anyway.

[A]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[B]

So we're seeing that. So I think butt cracks are over. The butt's over. We gotta move on. We gotta find a new erogenous zone to mine for content. And then we got our first male celebrity in lace up crotch pants, which is very exciting. Exciting?

[A]

Oh, you called this?

[B]

Yeah, well, I, I mean, I simply analyzed the data that was given to me by the professionals, you know, by the adult entertainers. And I, I, I took their message and I related to the public, which is lace up pants are happening for men. And we got our first example on the red carpet. And I think that's so exciting. And I just think it's a really great idea. I don't know why more men aren't doing it. It's Swae Le Cool.

[A]

Very.

[B]

Yeah, he looked great. It's very cool. And it's very like 60s 70s rock star, you know, it's very Jim Morrison to me.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So to me, it's like a way for men to be slutty that's still coded like super hetero, you know, like aggressively macho. Like cool guys do this so like I can be slutty in this way. So that's exciting. But the main trend I wanted to talk about is everyone's wearing shredded clothing in various states of shred. I guess the two most notable ones are both Zendaya and Gabriette wore Matiere Fikal. Zendaya, of course, to the Odyssey press tour, wore a matier fickle I believe, custom gown that had big feathered, again, chicken, had big feathered angel wings coming off the back, but then also had this big tattered train that looked like it had kind of been like ripped apart or like washed up on shore. I guess it's kind of, you know, I didn't really put together how much the Sea Hags look I've been documenting really like meld into the kind of disintegrating, dilapidated fashions that we're now also getting. So Zendaya did that. And also I just. For any readers out there of mine who are listening, I want to make an amendment to my assessment of Zendaya's dress because a friend pointed out to me, me afterwards that there's like a crazy big exposed zipper going up the back of it. And if you know one thing about me, I hate exposed zippers. Yeah, I hate them. They look awful. I've never seen a good looking one. And when you were talking about a couture gown.

[A]

Yeah. With an exposed zip.

[B]

What are we doing here? We're cutting corners is what we're doing here. I don't want to see that. Hide it. Put a flap of fabric over it. Don't make me see that. Anyway, and then Gabrielle, who married Maddie Healy, for those who don't know, she's like a famous model. She also wore a Matiere Faquel custom wedding gown, the first wedding gown I think they've ever made. And I feel like that was the first mess wedding that I've ever seen. Really, it felt like, I don't know, both her bridal looks to me felt very, very mess coded in such a funny way.

[A]

I could see that.

[B]

And I've never like responded to bridal content like before. I mean, maybe, maybe the closest was like Esti Haim's Louis Vuitton gown. Oh, yeah, man, it was wild.

[A]

Do you remember that now? Yeah.

[B]

But that also felt. I don't know, it wasn't pure mess because it was. Felt very trad wife and like a little puritan and I, you know, like it didn't have all the notes that I like, but it was so strange that I was like, okay, well, that's fun at least. But Gabriette's really hit so many of the mess notes that I was struck by it. I mean, for starters. I guess I should explain further. For starters, the gown itself, incredibly sea hag. I believe even her mother or her called it something like that.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes, they did that.

[A]

The Vogue video?

[B]

Yeah, I guess it was a Vogue video with the try on of the dress and stuff. And someone in the room like, calls it basically like dragged from the ocean depths. And I'm like, thank you. Finally people are seeing what I'm seeing. And so the. So that was all same thing as Zendaya's dress is like the hem of the dress was all kind of like tattered and torn and ripped apart. And then also the look she changed into for the after party was extremely mess. Talk about a top.

[A]

Top hat. What was the after party dress?

[B]

Oh, it was like a little suit situation with kind of a flood pant that was like, looked like it had been burned, like an old piece of paper around the. The bottom. And then she had a little. A little.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

She was kind of flourishing in a.

[A]

I do like this, you know, in such a fashion.

[B]

And I don't know, it was very circus, very ringleader. Yeah, yeah. And so I just. I was really struck by that. So I started thinking about this, I don't know, like deconstructed gowns there or disintegrating gowns there. And then just some other random examples I've seen this month. This is a new one I actually just saw this morning. But Charli XCX was on. I always forget the name of the show, but there's this French talk show where the desk lights up and so everyone looks like super fucking snatched and like gorgeous because they're like illuminated from below and sweat is like, like. So Charlie was on that and she was wearing this skirt that looked like kind of loose Ace bandage wraps were just like quickly swirled around her body.

[A]

Mummified.

[B]

Mummified. But it was kind of sl. Like it was just kind of falling apart in this way where I'm like, that's very funny. Yeah, kind of mummy. Yeah, I guess it was mummy. And then we also at the World Cup, Justin Bieber performed wearing this, what I've been calling a polo poncho because it was a polo and a poncho shape atop another polo. Very striking. I am so compelled by this idea. I've just never thought of such a thing. I never thought about slicing open a shirt to make it to drape it atop another shirt.

[A]

He's on a yearly level.

[B]

He's an innovator and a revolutionary. I don't know what to tell you. And then Cardi B at Couture Week, she wore the same top. I think it's the same top. I haven't been able to confirm the designer on either outfit, so I'm not positive. But it looks like the same top that Maddie Ziegler wore months ago that I think I talked about in this, in the podcast, but I definitely talked about in the newsletter, that it looks like a couch, an upholstered couch that a cat has just, like, gone to town on, you know? You know, the vibes.

[A]

I love that. Yes. I've been very inspired by upholstery lately. Like, that's my whole vibe. It's like I want my clothes to look like they could have been a pillow or a couch.

[B]

Nice, you know? Yeah, beautiful. So Cardi B wore that to Couture Week, so another just kind of like, falling apart garment. And also, I've talked about this. I've compared it a lot to. At Dior, I believe it was their couture show. They had all this distressing on, like, jeans and stuff that was actually heavily embellished with, like, pearls and gilded threads and stuff. So it's kind of like this reversal of, like, distressing, almost, like luxurious distressing. And I don't know, it feels like all of that is something at play here for me because it's like these are all luxury, if not couture garments that you're paying. Like the. Or paying. These people aren't paying, obviously, but, like, theoretically paying, like, the highest possible price for. For something that's, like, crumbling. I don't know. I think there's something there, and it gives me real Golden Goose energy. If you're familiar with Golden Goose sneakers, they're, like, crazy expensive and they look so fucked up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, right. And so there's just something there to me about, like, the new form of luxury being something that looks decrepit. I don't know. I think it makes sense, too, when you think about. I'm trying to think of how to, like, parse this for people, but, like, we Kind of In the late 2010s, we see the rise of, like, Logomania, which is, like, really overt consumption of design in a way that's like, very flashy and gauche and I don't know. And at the same time, in celebrity fashion, you were seeing celebrities gravitate away from those, like, kind of Runway pieces in Logomania and towards, like, vintage archival pieces because they needed, like, a new benchmark of exclusivity and rarity. And so to me, this is like another hallmark of that, like, now everyone can afford. If they can't afford the real luxury good, they can certainly afford a very believable knockoff of it. And so it's like, there's almost something that's triggering about someone looking too perfect, perfect, or like, too well done or like, like, that's the new kind. That's like, new money look now is like you're too branded, you're too luxury.

[A]

It's happening with Botox now too. There was just a big piece that came out this week about strategic Botox.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where people are preserving some wrinkles in certain spots, but Botoxing other areas. And it's like, it's exactly about. It's like this strategic look of living, but not quite. You're like, I'm still gonna spend a crazy amount of money on this. I'm gonna still funnel all my time and energy and effort into looking different than I currently do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm gonna pretend it's also a little fucked up. Well.

[B]

Cause it's like you're aspiring for this, like, lived in quality, you know what I mean? Like, oh, like, oh, this is just like me, but better. But it's casual and no big deal, because that is our perception of people with real money, you know, this way or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the same idea of, like, people are obsessed with, like, you know, the Olsen twins, like, beating the out of their Birkin bags and stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's very that. It's like, I am so rich, I don't even care about this luxury good anymore. I don't care about, like, looking perfect or having, like, an overly taught face.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because also, like. Well, I'm sure that's also partially because of MAGA stuff. The, you know, wanting to have a more natural, lived in Botox face is also a response to a certain right wing look.

[A]

Yeah, yes, for sure. But like, crucially, not just opting out. It's like never, never opting out. Participate in this behavior. But look like, I don't. Yes, yes. Yeah.

[B]

And that's what it feels like in the fashion as well. Like, how do I look like I participate in luxury without looking like I'm a like a luxury hound basically. Or like. Or that I've owned these pieces for 30 years and like, oh, oopsie, there's like a moth hole in my. The roe turtleneck or whatever ever. It's like I couldn't possibly just like live a life where I own a piece of clothing long enough for it to get holes organically. I have to purchase them in the store because these will be gone next year.

[A]

It's actually like very related to the thing that I wanted to talk about next, which I've been thinking about, which is like, I've been trying to come up with a way to describe like, what beauty products are advertising in some of their like, marketing copy. And I would say it's like not an embodied life life, but an embodied life. So we're taking embodied experiencing experiences and putting them in a bottle and promising that this bottle will deliver the look of the embodied experience sans experience.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So I've been. Yeah. Just noodling on that for a little bit. But I started thinking about it after I came across this article on the Birdie Beauty site and it was about smelling like a kitten. It said kitten fur is the. The hot new fragrance note of the season. And I was like, this is weird. And then of course, almost none of the perfumes actually use a note of kitten fur. Of course it says they use soft notes like rose powder and musk to capture the playful softness of kittens.

[B]

This is like when we were talking about the horse perfume.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And there's like nothing horsey involved. Like no grass, no hay, no nothing. No barnyard yard.

[A]

No. So there's that fragrance brand, Demeter. I think that's how you say it. Demeter Kitten fur is one of their fragrances and they say it's designed to smell like the perfect spot just behind a kitten's neck. But like, of course has no actual smell of kittens on it. There's a perfume from Odette. Yeah.

[B]

Can I just say my perception of Demeter also is like, like I have always considered them a brand that is like rage baiting and doesn't know that they're rage baiting because they always.

[A]

I like some of their stuff. Yeah.

[B]

I just mean they've always had like weird ass fragrances like this and marketed them so strangely. And I'm like. But you like believe that, don't you? Like, they love it. You know what I mean, like, they're sincere, but they're always making shit like this where you're like, no, that doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Apparently this cat perfume from Odette actually has. Has a kitten Fur Accord cat pen. Yeah, well, that's what I'm like. I'm like, crabs don't really smell that. They're not known for their good smells, I don't think. It's not like a baby's head or something. Like, they're not great smelling creatures. I'm sorry, but I'm just like, if that's what you want in your life. The playful softness of a kitten. Like, cuddle a cat cafe perfume for this. Yeah. Go to a cat cafe. Go hang out at your friend's house who has a cat that. I don't know, say Beauty just launched a new like. Or they're about to launch a new glowy skin makeup thing and they're marketing it as a summer day bottled. And it's just like, that's just bleak to me. There was like a perfume that I forgot. Future Society, I think the brand was called where it's. The perfume is based on the scent profile of a cloud. Like, they went up into space and grabbed a bit of a cloud and then made a perfume out of it. And it's just like these. That's not co cool to me. That's just like we are bottling the unbottleable. We are like commodifying that which cannot and should not be commodified.

[B]

Like, interesting.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

How do you feel about a bottle?

[A]

Doesn't sound good to me. That sounds.

[B]

Well, you've just reminded me, you know, that Gap Beauty relaunched this week. How do you feel about those fragrances? How do we feel about. How do we feel about a Dream?

[A]

I know exactly.

[B]

Oh, I have it right here, actually.

[A]

Really? Really?

[B]

Dream.

[A]

Dream, yeah. Dream is an interesting name. I'm not offended by the name Dream

[B]

because I do not like the new packaging. I would just like to say I don't like the updated packaging. They should have done the original 90s packaging.

[A]

I remember the old packaging.

[B]

The old packaging was like a cylinder tube and it was like bright purple.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it was more.

[B]

I would say that it was more Clinique Inspired in the 90s. I just think this is too minimalist. This to me is Calvin Klein inspired packaging. And that's not the true. That's not the truth of what Dream was and who. Who was buying Dream, which is me as a middle schooler.

[A]

So I Don't really remember the Gap fragrances, like, if they were marketing them as, like, important to me, you know? I mean, it reminds me of, like, the boyfriend blush thing. If it's like, look like you were just rolling around in the grass. Like, just go roll around in some grass. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, obviously, this is nothing new. I'm just thinking of, like, embodiment as a. As a new wave.

[B]

Embodiment's fun. It's a fun framework. I like it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would just like to add a rumor that I'm trying to spread our listeners to help me spread, is that I just want everybody to believe and get the word out that Aaron Rodgers, the football player, is dating an AI chapter. But. And I just. I'd like to keep pushing it. He's just such a weird guy. We haven't ever seen his wife. She has no last name. There's no photos of her that exist in the world. They've never been spotted together, ever. I just think it's. Yes. Literally.

[A]

Literally, yeah.

[B]

Never ever has anyone seen her. We haven't heard from a friend of hers, a family member of hers. I'm just saying it's weird. He's a weird guy. And I want to spread this rumor until we get to see her in real life somewhere that she's an AI Chatbot. And I know that we already had this rumor, but I think we need to. We need to assign it to a different man.

[A]

Yeah, I'm on it.

[B]

And that man's Aaron Rogers. Spreading.

[A]

I will be spreading the script for you.

[B]

Thank you. We need to get all our friends at Sports Gossip behind. Behind this agenda.

[A]

Do you want to talk about influencers?

[B]

I guess if we have to.

[A]

We don't have to.

[B]

No, we don't have to. Let's talk about, say, a little.

[A]

A little influen.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I guess there was a. There was a sign in a Nantucket antique store that said, no influencers, and it went outrageous.

[B]

Outrageous. How dare you.

[A]

I read. Just read an article on the New York Times about it. I was. I wasn't, like, keeping up with this particular gossip until today, but I guess my overall reaction was like, what's a big deal? I don't know. I'm, like, so shocked that it became this big item.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's so not a big deal. It's fucking crazy. The framework it's being put through to make it a big deal feels so overwrought and, like, they're working like they're trying to whip themselves up so hard into a frenzy of outrage. But I do think that's also just like, of course they are. Because that is literally how influencers make their money and get attention is like whipping up something out of absolutely fucking nothing. Like putting up aside, this is no influencers. First of all, obviously a joke. Second of all, no one would ever know you're an influencer if you don't take out your camera and like, you know, weirdly record yourself and talk to yourself in public. So like you could still go like, they can't technically exclude you. Also like, they're not going to stop you. If you went in there and you recorded, they'd be like, well that's annoying. But like we're not going to kick you off the property. But also like, that is the right of a private business. No shirts, no shoes, no service. Ever heard of it? Like, are we discriminating against shirtless people, shoeless people? Like, what's, what's happening? I just don't, I don't think it's the, the upset that it's being made out to be. But it's fascinating, especially fascinating framework that it's anti feminist to me is just come from an iconic misunderstanding of feminism. It came from Paige Lorenz.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If you're familiar with her.

[A]

So she's going by Paige Paul now. So.

[B]

Excuse me. I'm so sorry. I'm so, so sorry. She got married. I forgot.

[A]

Paige Paul.

[B]

I was honestly, to be quite frank with you, I was barely like latching on to who Paige Lorenz was. Like I have a real hard time retaining her in my brain. It's like no fault of her own. It's truly just like a white blonde woman syndrome in my brain that I cannot latch onto her, that she's changed her last name. Every time I hear it. I think she's like a secret Jake Paul Logan, Paul sibling that I've just not learned about until right now.

[A]

So is that not who she's married to?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. I don't know anything about these.

[B]

No, she married like a super famous tennis player. But that's very funny. And that's. Wow.

[A]

Could be anyone.

[B]

Could be anyone could marry a Paul brother. It would actually maybe be more interesting. I don't know. Anyway, she's to my knowledge of this situation, which is a very light knowledge. I've only dabbled in this controversy. The anti feminist thing does originate from her because she was the first person to like speak out about the sign being like, that's weird. You Know like I'm on the anti and I'm an influencer and I could have brought you business basically. And like this is a woman's profession and thus it's like anti woman to hate on influencers. Oh, woman's God given. Right.

[A]

Common ish argument, I guess for like being anti influencer or critiquing influencers in any way, shape or form. And I'm sure there is like a very misogynistic way to go about critiquing influencers.

[B]

But also like what they're citing us. Yeah, absolutely. And what they are actually citing is that the, the industry is gender. Like it is predominantly women who occupy this field. And so that way it does feel. Feel sexist to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because most influencers women. But it's not, it's not a feminist. Right. To again make a front facing camera video of you dancing. I just, we, we've made a leap in logic there. That's like tough.

[A]

Yeah, I think like, yes, ideally the world wouldn't be structured in such a way that the, the people who have to commodify their themselves online in order to make money are mostly Agreed women.

[B]

Now that's an interesting conversation.

[A]

Like that doesn' make any critique of influencing and what it has done to our culture anti feminist or anti woman. Because you're right. I mean like we hear the same thing with beauty all the time. Like people will critique beauty or fashion because they're assuming it's frivolous feminine or something stupid to spend your time on, which is misogynist.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then there are ways to critique beauty in fashion because it is serious and powerful and, and affects everybody and is, you know, with beauty, like proven public health issues. Like, and that's a feminist way to critique.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The industry. And I'm like the same thing.

[B]

Misogyny within this industry.

[A]

Yeah. Yes, yes.

[B]

And that is rightfully critique. I don't know. It's really. Yeah, it's a very silly little controversy. And of course, I don't know. I brought this to the docket today because I was just thinking Jess is not involved in our social media output. That is a me product.

[A]

Because I'm too scared to, I'm too scared to read the comments.

[B]

I love it. I love getting in the mix of it. But last month we posted a clip from our last podcast talking about Rosie o' Donnell's facelift, of course. And whether or not she's being a bad feminist for getting a deep plain facelift that no one noticed, apparently. And there was a large Debate in our comments section and basically about, like being feminist, faceless being feminist. And it was just like, it was hitting a lot of the same notes for me as this conversation about like not having a problem with influencers also being like, inherently not feminist. It's like we're conflating a lot of choice feminism to my mind.

[A]

Oh, completely. Yeah. I mean, I was reading about this influencer, no influencer sign again. And like some of the quotes in the piece with people who were, who were, I guess, anti influencer were saying. So someone who like owned a store in Nantucket said she saw a rise in people just here to take their picture and be seen on Nantucket. Yeah. Somebody else said it can feel like a fake world that's so close to the real thing. And I think, like, it's good to be against it. Like, it's good to kind of question, why do we value an image of doing a thing more than we value doing the thing? Why do we value the image of this rather than the embodied experience of this? And there are reasons to kind of like scoff at the reduction of modern life to an image or something that you like, didn't actually do or experience fully.

[B]

So it's very Guy Debord. It's very notion of spectacle.

[A]

Yes. Oh my gosh.

[B]

The images replace reality. The only thing that matters is the image. It's not about acquiring, it's about showing that you own influence. Not liking that I think is very normal. Finding that weird or disembodied. And also I just keep thinking about like, well, you. There's a. You could say like the no influencer sign to me is also a statement of like, hey, I don't like being surveyed. I don't like being in the background of your videos. I don't like being part of your content. I don't like being made into your content. And I'd actually like to have like a shopping experience in the real world where I don't have to live in fear of those things. And I think we're especially seeing that. Like, you just. I don't know if you saw the story this week about the weird like lawyer guy and. And his like underling who were caught making out and now it's like thrown their lives in the tunnel. And it's like that was from an influencer, Jay Guapo, filming himself walking around and he caught. He walked up on a couple and he filmed him and he caught them doing that. Because it, to me, a lot of what young. I mean, this makes me Sound. I know this makes me sound very old, but I do think that a lot young folks today, a lot of the content that the young people are making on social media, to me, is just being narcs and bright prudes. Like, you are just, like, putting random strangers on blast for doing, like, normal normal. And even if you for some reason are such a prude that you can't believe people have affairs or that, like, affairs aren't punishable by, like, death, like, yeah, I don't know. I'm sorry. Like, welcome to the real world. Like, people have affairs with their underlings. Like, and it doesn't mean you could. I don't know. I think it's so strange that people aren't safe to live their life and, like, can't feel comfortable in public because they literally are. Are now fodder for other people's content. So, like, again, a store putting up a no influencer sign to me isn't even inherently about, like, being against influencers so much as it's about making customers feel comfortable and secure in their store that they can, like, live their life and be themselves. I don't know. I was thinking about this recently too with, like, festivals and stuff. I don't know. Like, some festivals are having, like, no phone policies and stuff. And I'm like, right, because I imagine, like, if you were like an attorney and you go to some, like, EDM festival and you're like, up on Molly and you just are like, wandering through the background of some influencer's video, like, that could ruin your life. Totally, totally interesting.

[A]

I. I mean, I think about it when I'm out and about sometimes just being like, oh, God, I'm not. I don't know, I'm not even like, doing anything weird or bad. When I see someone around me filming, I'm just like, I just don't want to be.

[B]

Oh, my God. I think about all the. I get stuck behind people who are filming, like, front facing, like, talking to themselves, and I'll get stuck behind them on the sidewalk and I'll, like, see myself in the room. Oh, no. Oh, no. Like, how do I get out of this? And even just, like, being perceived. I don't know. It's just the modern world is so strange. Even just being perceived in public, being recognized by strange. I don't know. Like, that's what I've been thinking about recently. Cause I keep getting recognized in public and I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, I need to start, like, thinking about. It's very weird. No, I think it's my theory is that Instagram is feeding my content, my direct neighborhood. Like, I think they're directively directly sending it out to like within a 10 mile radius of me. So. Because I mostly get recognized in my own neighborhood. But I don't know. Anyway, but that has already made me start thinking about like, oh, like maybe I should put like a little more effort into my dog walking outfits because I like might run into someone who like knows me from the Internet and I don't know. And then it's whatever. That's a very niche experience. But like, I do think it's a wider. But it is kind of like this wider concern of when you go out in public, you are suddenly like, you can be consumed by the public in a different way that you didn't necessarily intend. And that's weird and scary and most people are not opting into that life, you know, like I put my videos on the Internet. I am opting into the life that like, that's my own doing and my own problem. But yes, you know, these people having an affair in the park or whatever, like, they didn't sign up for this. They are not public people, you know, it's weird.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, that's what I was going to say. It's like we have to acknowledge in this conversation that like people could categorize what we are doing as a sort of influencing. Even though I wouldn't call myself an influencer, like I wouldn't be offended by that sign or anything. But in terms of just like the commodification of the self or the compounding, commodification going into social content. Like it feels like you can't opt out of it sometimes.

[B]

But yeah, I think, I think it's like a worse. I think it's like a, a poor mental symptom if you can't opt out of this identity of influencer when it literally means just like, don't take out your phone, like go into a store and don't record yourself in it. That's like all that's being asked of you and you're like literally impossible. Like, they are discriminating against me. Like, how dare they?

[A]

It's like, yeah, all that's being asked is like, no women allowed.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. It's like, I can't change this fundamental aspect of who I, I am. Okay, all right, buddy, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, I don't have strong feelings on it either way, I guess, but I

[B]

just think it's silly.

[A]

It's so silly. It's so silly.

[B]

I Just feel we are fundamentally. I think the silliest thing about it is we were just like in an era of like, willy nilly feminism, of like throwing this word around in a way that's like, so crazy and just so divorced from its real meaning, it's like, not helpful ultimately.

[A]

Yes. Okay. There's this book that I've been reading called Non Things, and it talks about, like, because of the proliferation of things and stuff and little objects and just like, we can buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. It actually shows that we don't value those things. Like, things that we value tend to be treated with a little bit more like respect or care. And so it's sort of like the volume is. Has an inverse relationship to the value. And I kind of feel that about the word feminism. Like, the more that we're saying it and saying, like, this is feminist, this is not feminist, blah, blah, blah, actual feminist action is being devalued.

[B]

Totally. And I also feel like that's an intentional move because the more you devalue it, the less important it is. The less. The less we have to fight for it, the more everything's feminist and fine. Have you ever read the book Perfection?

[A]

Yes. Vincenzo.

[B]

Something, something? Yeah, I was just thinking about the accumulation of objects that, like, don't actually mean anything to you, but, like, are stand ins for, like a certain type of person or place or time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, very interesting.

[B]

I want to read the original one. Did you read the original one?

[A]

I didn't read the original, no.

[B]

I really want to read it because I'm just very curious, like, how it's similar and how it's different and. Yeah, I don't know. And interesting. Anyway, yeah, we can do mess of the month.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, let's be silly. You want to go first or you want me to go first?

[B]

I can go first. Mine shirt. My mess is Jimothy.

[A]

I love Jimothy.

[B]

I love Jimothy. For those who don't know Jimothy, he's a little raccoon in Seattle who. I forget the name of the syndrome he has, but he has a short little spine. He has a short little baby spine. So he's an abbreviated raccoon and he just scampers about. And I just love him. And I just wanted to say that I love when the world collapses collectively becomes obsessed with one animal. And I think it's healthy for us as a global community to fixate on an animal that makes us all happy. And I think we need mu dang fever at least once a year. In order to boost morale and maintain sanity amongst the public. And we should look into that. And then I will say this podcast will probably come out before I ever publish the story. If I even end up publishing this story. She's kind of ghosted me, so who knows? But did on behalf of Interview magazine, I did contact a pet psychic to commune with Jimothy.

[A]

Oh my God, I have so many questions for him. Incredible. Emily, I'm just so proud of you. Like, you're doing amazing things. These are such fun ideas.

[B]

Thank you. I was really crack. I was really cracking myself up at work and none of my co workers thought it was funny. They were like, okay. I was like, okay, well, we need

[A]

to know what Jim thinking.

[B]

I was like, I'm giggling and laughing over here. So I'm emailing. That's incredible about Jimothy. And she was like, oh, yeah, I could. Because I was like, is that something you could even do? And she's like, I could absolutely do that. And she's in Seattle. And I was like, what are the chances where the fortuitous turn of events. Anyway, she's kind of ghosting me at the moment. So maybe that story won't even be up by the time you hear this and someone else can steal it.

[A]

Maybe Jimothy said told her, like, he didn't want to be.

[B]

He didn't want to talk to me. No press. Jimothy said, no press. I'm shy, but yeah, I literally have so many questions for him. And my first question is, does he know he's famous now?

[A]

I need to know.

[B]

I think he probably does.

[A]

He must.

[B]

He's gotta know there's like extra cameras and eyes on him. Right?

[A]

I'm sure he senses it.

[B]

Yeah. He feels the love of the. Of the nation.

[A]

I hope so. I really hope so.

[B]

God, I hope so too.

[A]

That love in his heart.

[B]

Yeah, me too. Anyway, so my mess of the month is Jimothy.

[A]

Sweet, sweet Timothy.

[B]

Sweet, sweet Jimothy.

[A]

My mess of the month is Tarte Beauty's glambulous. Uh oh, and we have an ambulance going at the same time. Okay. Today, Tarte unveiled its glambulance, which is a glammed out ambulance that is roaming the New York City streets.

[B]

Confusing.

[A]

Telling people to call 1-800-SNATCHED. And on the side of this glambulance, it says, come in to get an upper bleph, a jaw lift, a rhinoplasty bow drop, Botox for real. And then no, no, you go inside, you lay down on a gurney and they just. They Give you a fake BLF or flake, fake Botox lip flip with what they're calling the snatch stick, which is just a new contour product, and they're positioning it as giving you surgery level results. The models in the campaign for this are all wearing gauze. Gauze bandages on their face.

[B]

Very, very Vogue Italia.

[A]

Very vocatelier, very Kim Kardashian face shaper. The makeup artists in the glambulance are dressed up as surgeons. The ads for it positions the snatch stick next to a scalp, a syringe, like, all on, like, that medical tray. They're using, like, RX prescription graphics. Perfect. And this is. This is my favorite. They're drawing on the contour for using the snatch stick as, like, classic surgeon's marks, like, nip tuck marks.

[B]

Amazing. Wow.

[A]

It's. So they're doing the damn thing dystopian. Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, okay, one, I'd be very interested to know what cosmetics procedures the makeup artists, influencers, and models promoting this have done. And I actually kind of want to look into it. That would be kind of like, wanting for that. I know. Like, that would be like, you're promoting makeup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's also. It's just like, you're promoting this makeup saying you don't need surgery because this snatch stick is so good. But I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people promoting it are totally.

[B]

But I also. There's just something really compelling to me about that, like, in a world of this weird, radical plastic surgery, transparency. And there's something incredible to me about, like, an ad. And then on the corner of the ad, it's, like, all the procedures listed of, like, who you're looking at, you know, I don't know. There's something very, like, subversive. It's dark, but it's like. I don't know. It's very intriguing.

[A]

It's dark. I don't know. I just feel like, I don't know, compelling way similarly about, like, this, like, idea of an undetectable cosmetic surgery or, like, cosmetic transparency and just general was just like, we know it's detectable.

[B]

Of course we can see it. Right.

[A]

We know what you're doing. And I just sort of like, I don't know. This glamorizes plastic surgery and promotes the look of plastic surgery in such a strange way of being like. But don't get this. Instead of the plastic surgery. But it is still glorifying the look of just, like, invasive procedures.

[B]

Honestly, I think that. Can I just Say, I think this whole situation has a real just NT problem, which is that glambulance to me only makes me think of the wambulance like wham, whambulence. Like I just can't. That's in my brain so prone to that glambulance, I like can't even hear it because I'm like, oh, it's the wambulance.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, we've had like this big medicalization of beauty standards already and this is like framing becoming beautiful as not only like a medical issue, but like a medical emergency. Like, yes, emergency. Right.

[B]

The ambulance has to come and fetch you because it's such a dire situation. Right?

[A]

Yes, crisis.

[B]

A crisis.

[A]

But anyway, I mostly I, I like this because it confirms two of my predictions from earlier in the year, from the beginning of 2026, which I was, I said we're going to see Blef in a bottle. So lots of non surgical products marketed as giving you the look of an upper brief, which we have here. And then another one that I had was post op without the op in the style of skims. And I was thinking you'd see like faux fresh injection marks in lip liner. But I think the contour stick as like the nip tuck marks is pretty close.

[B]

That, that fits the bill certainly. I'm, I'm personally still waiting. Fingers crossed on that heavy bluff. You know me, Max Bluff. Max Bluff is coming. Friends, don't count it out just yet. We're going to swing right back around

[A]

the filler in the eyelid. Bleff. Done.

[B]

Yeah, a real like hang dog. A real like droopy, droopy dog, you know, Beautiful. Can't wait.

[A]

Well, that's it. If you. Two hours later and you like, yeah, leave us a, a kind remember, review wherever you're listening or comment. We recently found out you can comment on Spotify, so love getting those comments.

[B]

Oh, I don't know how to see those.

[A]

Somebody commented, I'll send them to you. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

I can see them either.

[A]

I get like a little email now every time somebody sends one. But I got a comment the other day from somebody who signed up to my newsletter and said, I discovered you through the Mess World podcast. And I was like, oh my God, this is so fun. Fun because I just thought it would be like the opposite of just like people who read our newsletters are listening to the podcast.

[B]

But no, they're not.

[A]

It's fun to think like the podcast has its own audience that doesn't even know what we do regularly.

[B]

Definitely what I've learned from being on multiple platforms is that they are all completely siloed from one another. Despite me constantly saying, hey, I have a podcast. Hey, I have a YouTube. Hey, I'm on Instagram. I write a newsletter. It's like, if you know me in one of those verticals, that's the only place you will ever know me. And I don't know why. Constantly on Instagram, people are like, wow, I wish I could watch like a longer version of your thoughts on all of this. I'm like, it's literally, these are clips from a YouTube video. These are clips.

[A]

Where do you think this comes from?

[B]

A long form YouTube video? I don't know. One person tried to tell me that it was AI Because I'm wearing the same shirt in every video and I'm like, from one 20 minute video? It's like, what?

[A]

I also own this shirt.

[B]

I'll wear it all the time. I'll wear it again. Oh, I'll wear it again.

[A]

Whoa. Well, let's just take this opportunity to remind our listeners that you can find so, so, so much more on our newsletters.

[B]

Real human beings. We are not AI. Our content is real and you can find us on every platform.

[A]

Okay, all right, we'll see you next time month.

[B]

Bye.