Clear Eyes, Pink Nips, Can't Lose

Summary

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Mess World, Episode: "Clear Eyes, Pink Nips, Can’t Lose"

Podcast by Jessica DeFino & Emily Kirkpatrick
Date: July 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and incisive episode, Jessica DeFino and Emily Kirkpatrick take listeners deep into the convoluted trenches of pop culture’s latest beauty and celebrity phenomena. They kick off with the emergence of Japan’s “nipple tint,” segue into a trenchant recap of the Pornhub Awards red carpet, and dissect everything from body-as-billboard marketing, AI smart glasses, to celebrity plastic surgery drama. Throughout, they bring their signature wit and skepticism, questioning the ever-evolving (and often ludicrous) standards of beauty, fashion, and fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nipple Tint Trends and the Weaponization of Body Insecurities

• [01:00] Jessica introduces a Japanese nipple tint product, highlighting its “one-shade-fits-all” pink and the cultural myths it feeds (“newborn pink flush” as beauty ideal).
• Critique: The product encapsulates racism, ageism, and gender essentialism, with all these themes “laid bare.”
  • Emily: "All the things in one product that most people will never even see in use.” [03:27]
  • Jessica: “They’ve created insecurities on all fronts imaginable for women...The color feels fresh to me, that feels like a fresh take on making you feel bad about yourself.” [06:48]
• Product Mechanics: Works like a lip stain, "Pepto pink" and highly pigmented but only comes in one shade—ignoring any nuance around actual skin tones.
• Historical Fun Fact: Benefit’s Benetint, now iconic as a lip/cheek stain, was originally invented as a nipple stain for strippers. [05:51]
• Satire: They joke about future pubic hair leave-in conditioners and bush-optimized silk underwear, illustrating the infinite monetization of female “imperfections.” [07:47]

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2. Pornhub Awards: Coverage, Fashion, and Cultural Shifts

• [09:02] Emily laments not being invited to the awards despite persistent pitching, decrying the lack of detailed red carpet coverage in mainstream media.
  • "Nobody's asking these people the questions that I need answered. There are just details about their outfits, I desperately need to know..." [09:37]
• Censorship & Platform Prudery: YouTube demonetizes Emily’s recap for merely mentioning “Pornhub,” highlighting stricter content moderation for sex-related events—even when educational. [10:43]
• Red Carpet Trends:
  • Posing: Adult performers excel at diverse, daring poses, overshadowing mainstream celebs. “Celebrities are so concerned about their angles and looking good... they won't take a risk.” [13:14]
  • Covered-Up Looks: Unexpectedly somber, with many black cocktail dresses, reflecting possible economic downturns and shifting public moods ("funereal times”).
  • Slutty Normcore: Men’s fashion is “so normal, but so tight,” tiptoeing into sexiness but often missing the tailored mark. "Men need more, like, casually slutty things..." [25:33]
  • Aura: Some performers radiate star power and mystique (“you can sense their energy... it's aura, baby”), which mainstream celebrities seem to lose in their hyper-managed image. [23:16]
  • Notable Standouts:
    • Kazumi in “black tape project”-inspired attire [20:27]
    • “Cottagecore queen” with crocheted lingerie [22:27]
    • Jelly Filled Girls & other face-obscuring looks as subversive resistance to bodily commodification [23:16]
    • Lana Smalls: "Cyber slut gone rogue with body mods,” earning Emily’s award for the evening [28:03]
• Underlying Theme: The red carpet, even at Pornhub, is less wild than in past years—a symptom, perhaps, of the industry’s own uncertainty and global malaise.

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3. Human Body as Billboard & Dystopian Beauty Marketing

• [28:19] Jessica points out the increasing use of the body in advertisements, from skincare billboards spraying mist onto pedestrians to Harry Styles’ interactive “kiss me” 3D lips posters in London.
  • Emily: “That feels like... biochemical, like terrorism.” [29:31]
  • Jessica: "It's making love to marketing." [32:59]
• Social & Physical Implications:
  • These campaigns blur physical and digital boundaries, inviting (or demanding) bodily interaction with advertisements—even potentially at the level of changing your skin microbiome.
  • Comparison to historical “lipstick kisses” on graves: Victorian grave tourism meets modern pop stardom. [33:02]

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4. Celebrity PR Stunts, Aura, and the Banality of Nudity

• [37:02] Emily muses on the death of nudity as transgressive currency on the red carpet: “When nudity is everywhere, nudity isn’t the exciting thing. Suddenly, thinking and wearing clothes is the transgressive exciting thing.” [42:38]
• Memorable Quote: Madonna: “Because now everyone’s naked, now I don’t want to be naked because everyone’s naked...I want to do what people are not doing, which is thinking and wearing clothes.” [42:36]
• Red Carpet Stunts: Discusses how stunts—like Patty Harrison’s fake red carpet birth or Eric Andre’s suit being ripped off—are the new PR tactic. [39:44]
• Clever Analysis: The more celebrities admit to staging their paparazzi photos, ads, and “moments,” the less mystical and “aura-filled” they become, raising the question: “Can celebrities survive without aura?” [49:04]

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5. Clavicular’s Botched Nose Job and Dr. Miami Exposé

• [51:00] Jessica and Emily break down the saga of incel influencer Clavicular’s much-memed “after” photos.
  • Emily: "It's honestly the perfect punishment for the crime. You know what I mean?" [52:58]
• Social Fallout: The internet turns Clavicular’s own beauty-maxxing logic on him after an underwhelming surgical outcome.
• Dr. Miami:
  • Deep dive into Dr. Miami’s shady history, including the ethically dubious children’s book "My Beautiful Mommy” and offering free nose jobs to Orthodox Jewish singles to improve marriage prospects. [61:30]
  • Commissioned an Orthodox Jewish pop-punk band to make a nose job music video in exchange for surgery.
  • Ethics Violations: The American Society of Plastic Surgeons tried to investigate, but consequences seemed minimal. [64:29]
  • Dr. Miami’s normalization of live-streamed surgeries is discussed as an extension of Real Housewives’ transparent approach to cosmetic procedures—both driving desensitization. [67:04]

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6. The Rise (and Ugliness) of AI Smart Glasses

• [67:10] Jessica and Emily react with alarm to new “Meta” and “Snap Inc.” AI eyewear:
  • The Kylie Jenner x Meta glasses (“Rise and shine!”) are derided for their lackluster, oval, gas-station shape and the triviality of a mirrored charging case marketed as “everything.” [71:26]
  • Zuckerberg, as public face, is “very lizard people coded to me” [74:07]. Vanity Fair’s mystery over his secret stylist—hiding perhaps out of embarrassment—is teased with off-the-record gossip [75:00].
  • Snap’s AR specs (“SPECS”) are “heinous” and “massive,” evoking car eyelashes and looking like a poorly executed Jacques Marie Mage knockoff [79:02].
• Critical Take: No one really wants these; tech is forcing new forms of self-surveillance and data capture without any real consideration for privacy or consent, particularly for women and vulnerable groups. Red “recording” lights are spoofed as a laughably insufficient safety measure. [87:57]
• Predictions: Beauty and fashion will be quick to exploit this technology—think skin analysis, virtual dressing rooms, even “metal lashes” or projected eye makeup. [84:23]

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7. Mess of the Month

• Emily’s Mess: The QR code resurgence—“It feels like a technology, it's a 90s technology that they're trying to sell us as the cutting edge future and it's just not.” [90:30] Hilarious moment: Lizzo discovering QR codes as if for the first time—“Gagging. This actually works" [92:37].
• Jessica’s Mess: Media packaging of “glow down” as anything other than budgeting; a Bustle headline frames young women scaling back their routines as “getting uglier,” missing any critical questioning of beauty’s hold or celebrating less-is-more. “You're not ugly, you're poor.” [95:52]
• Related Quote: “Using fewer products can actually be a glow up...” [95:11]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “They’ve created insecurities on all fronts imaginable for women.” — Jessica [06:48]
• “No one wants that either. First of all, history.” — Jessica on hypochlorous acid mist billboards [30:25]
• “Sexual about it anyway…and there’s literally nothing sexual about it whatsoever. Anyway, that was a new lesson for me.” — Emily on content moderation of adult content [11:35]
• “No, you can’t be using the word newborn. Sorry.” — Emily on “newborn pink flush” [02:31]
• “When nudity is everywhere, nudity isn’t the exciting thing. Suddenly, thinking and wearing clothes is the transgressive exciting thing.” — Madonna, read by Emily [42:38]
• “The design is oval. The design is oval. It's not a design.” — Emily on Kylie Jenner’s glasses [70:57]
• “If you don't have any money, you're probably looking worse.” — Jessica, paraphrasing the Bustle “glow down” [97:03]
• “He is...very lizard people coded to me.” — Emily on Mark Zuckerberg [74:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nipple Tint & Beauty Insecurity: 00:30–08:42
• Pornhub Awards Red Carpet Recap: 09:02–28:03
• Body as Billboard: Interactive Ad Campaigns: 28:19–36:21
• Celebrity PR Stunts & Loss of Aura: 37:02–50:38
• Clavicular’s Nose Job & Dr. Miami Deep Dive: 51:00–67:10
• Smart Glasses, AI, & Self-Surveillance: 67:12–89:45
• Mess of the Month (QR Codes, 'Glow Down'): 90:02–98:03

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Tone & Style

True to Mess World’s ethos, Jessica and Emily blend pop culture sharpness with comedic irreverence, maintaining an informed but anti-hype stance on every topic. Their signature blend of critical skepticism, deadpan, and industry insider knowledge keeps the conversation both rich and relatable throughout.

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For More:

• Jessica’s newsletter: Flesh World
• Emily’s roundup: I <3 Mess
• Related episode: 2 Niche Podcast with Elizabeth Cot ([see show notes])

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Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to Mess World, a podcast dedicated to discussing the highs and lows of pop culture. Every month. I'm Jessica Defino and I write the newsletter Flesh World.

[B]

And I'm Emily Kirkpatrick, and I write I heart message. Welcome.

[A]

I think we're going to start with what facialist Joanna Check calls the start of your face, which is your nipples. Have you heard this before?

[B]

I haven't heard this before, but Joanna Check once told me that I have very thick skin. And I. I've really relished that compliment ever since. And I bring it out, it means probably nothing, but I love to tell

[A]

people it's no, I can. You know what? Looking at you right now, I'm like,

[B]

you see the density?

[A]

Hardy skin.

[B]

Joanna saw it.

[A]

She says, yeah, skincare starts at your nipples. And I have been fascinated by a new product that is coming out of Japan just now from the Japanese drugstore Matsuki, maybe. They released a nipple tint, and it's called retouch. You just. You retouch you to tint your nipples pink.

[B]

Is it one shade fits all or

[A]

it's one shade fits all naturally. Very clear. You want your nipples to be this exact shade pink. The TikTok that I watched about it is from this, a creator who goes by Patricia in Tokyo. Her app is what the Pato said that in Japan specifically, pink nipples are desirable and they're associated with youthfulness, femininity, and purity. Like, there's a myth there, I guess, that the darker your nipples are, like,

[B]

the more people you slut you are. Exactly. Makes sense. That tracks.

[A]

So pink nipples are, like, what you want, apparently. And so I start researching it because I'm like, is this a big thing? Do people care? One phrase keeps popping over and over again, popping up over and over again. In my research on this particular nipple tint, and that is the phrase newborn pink flush.

[B]

No, no, no, no, we can't. No, you can't be using the word newborn. Sorry.

[A]

Every time. I can't read.

[B]

Where is it coming from?

[A]

The text on the Japanese site. But when I see people talking about it, they're quoting, newborn pink flesh for your nipples.

[B]

No, you can't be doing that.

[A]

You cannot be doing it. And yet. And yet they are. And I'm just, like, fascinated by the convergence of, like, racism here, obviously, because

[B]

this is primary in this sort of thing.

[A]

Ageism, because it's about having your nipples look like young, youthful, just like newborn pink nips being eroticized. Gender essentialist, because obviously there's no need for men's nipples to be a certain color.

[B]

They can be as dark and slutty as they want with their nipples.

[A]

All the things in one product that most people will never even see in use.

[B]

Totally. And also just how laid bare it is. Right. It's like all the themes of the beauty industry at large, and they're like, let's consolidate it and just, like, push that all to the front with. No, like, make the subtext the text, you know?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's cool. I have a lot of, like. I was just gonna have a lot of, like, practical questions about this. What. I guess my first question is, like, kind of, what is the formulation of it? Like, is it a. Like a. Oh, nail polish? Like, is it a paint? I guess is my question. It's a stain.

[A]

Stain. So you put it on. It sort of looks like a lip gloss. I think it has, like, a doe foot applicator.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

You, like, put it on, you let it dry for, like, five minutes, and then you wash it off. And like.

[B]

Okay, so just like a lip stain. Okay.

[A]

It's like a lip stain. And then it supposedly stays on through showers and water and lasts for, like, 24 hours. And you only have to.

[B]

Exactly what I want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So easy. So convenient. Thank God for that. I guess my next question is, does this product contain bleach? Because, like, what if you do have dark, slutty nipples and you want to lighten them to a newborn?

[A]

I think it's youthful pink. I. I actually did not look up the ingredients. I wouldn't be surprised. Something in it, maybe, but I. I think. No, I think it's more of, like, a paint. It's like a very pigmented, like, Pepto pink, maybe a little darker pigment that, like, looks super thick. And when I was looking at videos of people swatching it and trying it, they would draw. They would draw like, brown on their wrist or something and then put the

[B]

tint over it to show you how

[A]

it would cover it up different shades. So it. Okay, not like lightning, but it's covering.

[B]

Right. And it's so opaque that it doesn't matter the color of your real nipples because it's creating a fictional narrative at that point.

[A]

Matter. I'm sure it doesn't work for all, but at that.

[B]

Right. It obviously doesn't work for all because they're like, literally there's only one shade. And they've only considered that, like, you could ever have one skin tone or, like, one shade of areola. So obviously it's not for all. I guess at that point, I'M wondering, like, why not just use a lipstick or a nail polish? Or like, if you are just painting your nipples, let's really paint them. Let's go crazy.

[A]

But this brings me to my one of my favorite fun facts in beauty, which is that the like very popular benefit Bene lip stain started out as a nipple stain. See, well, that was invented to be like, look how practical for strippers. And now it's like one of the best selling, you know, lip and cheek stains in the world. And yeah, I, I've tried this before. I was writing a story about nipples and lipstick a couple of years ago and I was like, I got to, I gotta try. I literally have never cared about the color of my nipples before.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Until I put Benetton on them. And I was like, this looks so good.

[B]

Oh, this could be better. Oh, this could be improved. Oh, now you know the true state.

[A]

It ruined me because I was like, wow, look at how good my nips.

[B]

No wonder this is trending then. I was gonna say, like, it is kind of a perfect product. Just in terms of like, it feels like beauty has kind of conquered all frontiers, you know what I mean? Like, they've created insecurities on all fronts imaginable for women. And obviously they've now moved on to men and like making men deeply insecure, as we'll continue to talk about clavicular later today. But I don't know, it just feels like nipples. Like we've been. Women are already insecure about their nipples, but it's like not the color. The color feels fresh to me. That feels like a fresh take on making you feel bad about yourself. And in that way I can see it being incredibly powerful.

[A]

Right. Like, luckily that that feeling lasted for like five minutes. And I've never thought about my nipple color again for sure. But it was kind of a wild little experiment. You know, I was thinking too, today, speaking of products that like seem so just like, how, how did this become a product? I, I feel like we're gonna get like pubic hair leave in conditioner.

[B]

I don't, you know, I've been waiting

[A]

for it and I think it's coming.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I've been counting down the days. How better to show off our pubic hair than to have it deep conditioned? And then we're going to have hairstyles for it. Oh my God. There's going to be a curly girl routine for your pubic hair.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

Oh my God. Yes.

[B]

A little, what do they call those, like hair genies. Or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. Those little, like, microfiber towels that you like, right?

[A]

You. Oh, yes, yes.

[B]

They're going to create, like, an underwear version of that, I feel like, to wrap up your pubic hair. Oh. Or like a silk. Put, like a silk pillowcase for the, like, silk underwear.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Silk. Yes. But, like, specifically marketed to, like, for non breakage, so your curls can be optimized. Like, if we're gonna have a full bush, like, let's let the full bush really thrive. Wow. This is. See, these are the moments where I'm like, I'm in the wrong career.

[A]

I know. We could be such evil geniuses if

[B]

we wanted to abandon our lot of money. A lot of money, man. I don't know.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

We could get feeling a little regretful

[A]

to sponsor us, you know?

[B]

Well, you know, is it my time to talk about my favorite event of the year? Oh, my God. It's the pornhub Awards, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

It's my time to shine. Even though they are ignoring me and they will not invite me to their event, I cannot tell you how many times I emailed their PR people all year, starting in January. I found yes, because I was like, I'm not going to miss this again. Like, I cannot miss this again. This is my event.

[A]

Like, they're not getting a ton of coverage in the media. Why wouldn't they want.

[B]

I don't know. I feel like it's me. I feel like I'm the coverage and I'm being ignored. And then my. My inter. For. My Internet friend Dave went to the pornhub Awards this year, and I was like, how the did you get invited? And I didn't get invited.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Unfair. Anyway, they're ignoring me. Yeah, that's true. I'll ask him next year about attending because I gotta get in there. Because also, like, when I was doing the recap, it's always the same problems for me. It's like nobody's asking these. These people the questions that I need answered. Like, there are just details about their outfits. I'm like, I. I desperately need to know how they did that or what that is or what their thought process was behind that. And, yeah, I can't get it because no one's even asking them what their names are, let alone, like, who are you wearing? Like, what was the inspiration for tonight? No one's asking them these questions that I genuinely don't get. I even pitched on something. I mean, low key. I didn't, like, formally pitch them But I was like, Playboy sent me. Send me. That was before I was working at Interview, too. I should get interviewed. Just send me, actually, next year.

[A]

I feel like that's your way in.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I feel like that is your way in. Yeah.

[B]

Also, I just wanted to say that I also realized this year because I did a little. Well, I did a recap for paid subscribers in the newsletter, and then I decided to do a little video recap for paid subs on YouTube as well. And I didn't realize what prudes YouTube are.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Like, they totally censored my video. They completely demonetized it. Which is fine because it's behind a paywall. You know what I mean? Like, I get member subscriptions for it anyway. But they completely demonetized it, and I was like, that's insane. And they're. They're demonetizing. I even asked for a human review because I was like, literally no one's even naked in the video. Like, everyone's completely covered up. There's not a nipple and there's not pubic hair, and there's nothing even close to suggestive or salacious happening with these outfits. And it seems like it's literally me saying the words pornhub awards that gets it demonetized. And I'm like, that's insane to me because it's like, if you watch the video, I'm clearly. What I'm doing is educational, which is one of the rules of YouTube is like, if nudity is educational, then it's fine, actually. And I'm like, well, what I'm doing is critique, and it's educational. It's commentary. Like, there's nothing inappropriate about this and everyone's parts are covered. And they still demonetize me.

[A]

Sexual about it anyway.

[B]

And there's literally nothing sexual about it whatsoever. Anyway, that was a new lesson for me. I didn't realize. I knew that YouTube was, like, a little bit of a prude. I just didn't realize what. To what degree I. They're as bad as TikTok, which, tick tock, really censors me in a crazy way. Really? Yes. Like, Instagram will. Will, like, have no problem with a. With a clip that I post and, like, spread it around, doesn't kill the traffic, whatever. And TikTok will immediately dead it and be like, this is against all of our policies because you can, like, see under boob or something. It's, like, really strict. It's very crazy. Anyway, that's not what. That's not the point of what they're talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I just wanted. We did the AVN Awards recap earlier this year, and some of the trends I saw there. So I thought I would just share some of the pornhub awards trends I saw on that red carpet. I guess the most exciting part of the night was kind of like, they're just incredible at posing, which, like, shouldn't be a surprise, but, like, when you really see adult entertainers and, like, the poses and the repertoire they have on the step and repeat, you're like, oh, celebrities are bad at this, actually. And again, it kind of like.

[A]

Like a different way they use their bodies and, like, are familiar and intimate with their.

[B]

Yes, totally, totally. And I also think it's something like. Well, I. I complained about this a lot with Kim Kardashian, but it's like her refusal to ever look bad actually makes her look worse. You know, like, her obsession with looking perfect and composed and extreme glam, extreme, like, tightness and body. And it's like, it actually makes her unfashionable and look. Look much worse than she would if she would, like, embrace a little.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know, a little. A little flare, a little something falling apart. Something not quite perfect and not quite right.

[A]

So, you know, a little.

[B]

A little freedom. Yeah. And so I think it's also the posing is partially. That is, like, celebrities are so concerned about their angles and looking good in photos and, like, what this means or whatever, they won't take a risk on, like, maybe I do a different type of posing besides just, like, resting my hands on my thighs or whatever, you know, and, like, coyly smiling. So, yeah, there's a lot of great posing. There was what I called a sexy conga line for two, which is just kind of like ass to dick, you know, Posing. It's like. It's a prom. Prom picture posing. I would also call that, I guess you don't ever see though, a red carpet. And I was like, why not? I love that. That looks great. It's a classic for a reason. There's also a couple we'll talk about in a second, but she's grabbing her. Her wife's ass. And I was like, I never. We never get an ass grab anymore. Like, where's the romance?

[A]

A little public ass grab between Dua Lipa and Callum Turner recently.

[B]

And look at how people lost their minds.

[A]

Everyone was like, you know, we're back. Heterosexuality is back, baby.

[B]

Oh, God, that's. And that's so depressing. That's like a man A man not even grabbing, just like reaching out to cupcakes. His, his new wife's ass can cause this sort of meltdown in the public. It's like we're not seeing enough ass grabbing then. I'm sorry. Like we're not seeing enough appropriate PDA from these hot people if that's going to send us into a tailspin. Anyway. So I was thinking about that on the red carpet also. There was a couple who, I don't know if they are professional bodybuilders, but they certainly had the, the physiques of professional bodybuilders. And they were kind of just like doing a little like flexing, pose off in the middle of the step and repeat. I'm like, that's honestly so cool. And, and it's like these people do work so hard on their bodies. Like, I, I wouldn't mind seeing them kind of like do a, a Mr. Universe kind of moment and like show us that, you know, hit the.

[A]

Yeah, I'm like imagining all the poses right now. I know.

[B]

Hitting all the good poses with. Exactly, exactly. And also it just made me think too about. I just, I would love to see more muscular physiques in general, especially on women. I don't. It is like such a different type of beauty that we don't. We aren't often treating to. It was reminding me of. I forget the actress's name, who was in Love Lies Bleeding, who is a professional bodybuilder.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Did you ever see that film?

[A]

I never know what you're talking about.

[B]

Interesting. But she's like the professional bodybuilder and I just, I am obsessed with her physique because it's so just like not what we're told is like feminine and beautiful and. But she's so like, visibly strong. It's very interesting to see otherwise though, outside of the posing, this red carpet was quite alarming to me, frankly. It was very covered up, very sedate, very sedate, very funereal, very. A lot of black cocktail dresses.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes, a lot of very covered up black cocktail dresses that you would see like at any regular event. And I was kind of like, that is so against the pornhub, like, ethos all about. Well, I think like, the obvious answer is like, recession. You know, like we are headed into dark time. I don't know. To me, it's like, it's always a reflection of the, the state of society and it's like, well, yeah, we're definitely in funeral times, so I do understand the impulse, but like, yeah, I Don't know. Just, like, the lack of. Of overt sexiness I found, like, really kind of concerning and alarming. Yeah. Even amongst the men. The men were also, like, like, hilariously covered up, but in a way I kind of talked about in the newsletter as it being a slutty norm core. Like, it. It was so normal, but also, like, so tight that it's like, you clearly, like, wanted this to be, like, sexy and suggestive in this way that's, like, actually very funny. And there was one gentleman who was wearing just like, a. Like, a knit sweater that was, like, a little bit see through, but then with, like, a scarf over it. And I was like, a scarf is like a sassy accessory to me. Like, there's something a little, like, flirtatious about it, but, like, to be completely covered up with that. There's another man in, like, a full suit, like a banker, like, power suit, but it seemed like it had stretch to it. Like, it seemed like it might be a stripper costume. Yeah, like a banker. Yeah, yeah, it was like, it was quite clingy and stretchy. And it's like, I. And again, it's like, I understand the impulse for slutty normcore is like, you want it to be super tight, but it's like, I actually think if you had just worn a regular suit and tailored it really well in, like, a slim cut way, it would be sexy in the same way, but actually, like, more powerfully sexy. And there's another man who I called slutty Steve Jobs, and it was like, yeah, a tight chino and a. And a really tight black turtleneck. And again, I think, actually I get the impulse, like, tightness is sexiness, like, skin bearing or, you know, figure bearing is sexiness. But I really do think, like, it's actually for men often and women, the better something fits the. The more, like, precise and tailored and sharp. Like, that's actually what is sexy, and that's actually what people are responding to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, and men also. A lot of men doing, like, an Isabella Rossellini in death becomes her, like, bejeweled top.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

I like that. Yes.

[B]

I like it too. The execution wasn't quite at the level I would like it at, but I certainly respect the impulse and I do want to support them there because I do love to see it. It's a little Timothee Chalamet, but that's okay. Um, I think, again, people keep doing these tops. I'm. I'm thinking about Jenna Ortega specifically wore Like a Givenchy version of this top as well. And like, my problem with all of them is kind of just like what people aren't getting about what's fabulous about it is like one. The. The excess of it. Like, the opulence of it. Like, Isabella Rossellini's top was like so thick and heavy with like beads and jewels. Like, that's what kind of made it fabulous. And these are quite sparse, I would say. And then also, like, what was fabulous about Isabella's is that didn't seem to be like super tethered in place. Like, it seemed like kind of a loose necklace and it would like move with her body in this way. That kind of again, something I always talk about. But like, the implication of a wardrobe malfunction is like a very powerful, I think, like mental gymnastics thing that can make an outfit more interesting. And so it's like when you have this kind of slosh of the beads back and forth over the bosom, you feel like, oh my God, like her tits about to pop out. Of course it. Because the garment's constructed, so that doesn't. But it's like. But that's the thrill of that top for me. And I just feel like we kind of keep missing the point on that front.

[A]

It's like the will they or won't they fashion.

[B]

Yes, totally. A couple other stars for me that night. There's a performer. Her name is Kazumi, which I just think that's a fabulous name. I love that. She was actually one of the only people who I thought was appropriately revealing in that attire. Oh my God. I also just realized that when we post this video on YouTube, it's going to get demonetized. That's okay. Maybe, maybe Mimi can bleep out every time I say pornhub and they can. They can have a chill pill.

[A]

Yeah, that is very funny.

[B]

Anyway, Kazumi is the only one who's like appropriately exposed, in my opinion. It was very black tape project, which long term readers of my newsletter will know that the black tape project is a brand, quote unquote a brand. It's a strong word for what they are. But they, they show during Miami swim week and they basically just like put black electrical tape on models bodies in various geometric patterns and then call it a bikini. It's inspired by. In Brazil, black tape is used to create like bikinis so that women can not get tan lines. And so that's like a long, a long time tradition there. Anyway, so that's where it came from. And that's what Kazumi's outfit reminded me of. I really liked it. There was another young lady who I've been calling my cottagecore queen because she wore like a lingerie set that was fully crocheted. And I desperately need to know her name. If anyone out there knows who she is, I would love to know her name because I'm just so curious about who she is because she genuinely has like star power. I don't know how to explain this, but, like, there's certain people in photographs. I mean, it's why we have celebrities to begin with. Like, there are certain people in photographs who. It's like you can sense their energy, like so acutely and like you want to like, look at them and. And like it's aura, baby. Yeah, it's aura. It's totally aura. And she has aura. And I'm so curious who she is and who else. There's another performer, Ellie Clutch, who's doing like Stepford Wives drag. Just reminding me she looked a lot. A reader pointing this out to me. She looks a lot like the model on the COVID of the book Blink 182 album in the nurse uniform whose name is escaping me at this exact moment. But it just reminded me. The blue eyeshadow, we're really not using it enough. We're not using it to its advantage. She also had like a little Blair Waldorf, like matching headband and I don't know, the matchy matchiness. And then the latex, like the. The PVC latex gloves. I don't know. Very like doctor, very like medical fetish adjacent. Something very powerful there. And then there was one couple whose names I didn't get and another couple who are called the Jelly Filled Girls, which of course I'm so con. I'd love for them to chime in as well about where that name comes from because I didn't do too much research. But they do appear to just be like a married lesbian couple. And so I'm like, the Chili Filled Girls, like, where is this coming from Anyway? They both attended with like complete, completely like face obscuring masks. Like the one couple whose name I don't know wore like KN95 masks with then just blackout sunglasses so you couldn't see their faces at all. Hilarious. And then the Jellyfield girls wore like these big rhinestone sunglasses that like covered half their face so you can't really see. I think that's their bit too, in their work is that you could only kind of ever see the lower half of their face.

[A]

Called this so long ago. I love when we get new examples of obscuring the face.

[B]

I love it. And I think it's so much. I think my point is made so much more clearly and more powerfully with adult entertainers doing it as well. Where their bodies are, their careers, you know what I mean? And like being fully exposed and like fully consumable by your public, like is your career. And to withhold this one aspect of yourself, which is usually the aspect you lead with. I think that inversion is like really something. And I just something I can't believe that celebrities don't play into more. It just seems like such a, such an obvious. And then I guess I'll just say my two of my faves. Well, one, I finally identified this, this performer. His name is Austin Spears. And I loved him last year because he dressed up like a rodeo clown. Do you remember that at the. Because last year they did like a Wild west kind of themed red carpet, which also bring back the themes. Pornhub Awards. Because that was really fun. The, the cowboy one, they like really turned it out. Like there's cod pieces, there's cowboy. I don't know. I. I think giving them a theme. Yeah.

[A]

Love to have a reason to go crazy. It's like Met Gala.

[B]

Exactly. It felt like more Met Gala last year where they were like really curating their looks to the, to the night. And it's like, I think much like celebrities, like when you give them a narrower purview to operate in, it's going to come out with like a. Yeah. A stronger aesthetic. But so Austin Spears this year wore lace up trousers with like, with like a cropped tank top. And so he was one of three gentlemen that I've noticed recently wearing lace up pants. There was another adult entertainer at that event who also. He wore a pair of lace up pants. And then Paul Downs at the American Music Awards, I believe also a pair of flakes of pounds when he was doing like Matty Healy cosplay. And I just think that's very fun and slutty and men need more like casually slutty things I think introduced into their garments in a way that's not Alexander Skarsgrd doing like kink cosplay to promote a film. You know what I mean? Just like the way that a woman's dress will have a oblique cutout or something. I think a men's trouser can have a lace up, you know, fastener. Like why not? Yes.

[A]

A little glute cut out.

[B]

A little glue cut out. My God. But they're so scared that I feel like a lace up trouser feels like the, like dipping a toe in to the paw. You know what I mean? I'm not telling them to go ass out, but like we're gonna get there.

[A]

When I think of lace up trouser, I think of like Britney Spears. I'm like picturing a very specific pair that she wore and pirates. Like it feels like a pirate costume to me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I feel like those are great, great references.

[B]

Yes. It does feel very Pirates of the Caribbean. There's also something to me that's a little Heath Ledger in a Knight's Tale about it. It feels very, I don't know, like something that a knight would wear under his armor or something. And again, I don't know. I think that's powerful. I think that's interesting. And also Austin did it with, with like he wore his super low slung within like a cropped white tank top and that too. I was like, that's so such a powerful combination. Like a little male midriff. They're just not doing it enough. They're just not showing us enough body. And then I'll, I'll conclude with my favorite of the night. And I say she's my favorite because she, she was in my comment section of my newsletter because she's a, she's a, she's a sister of a friend of a reader of my newsletter who then sent it to her, looped her in and then she came into the comments wing and yes, and that is Lana Smalls. Everyone out. Go out and show some love to Lana. Go find her on Instagram, go find her work out there on the Internet. She is wonderful. So she wore this look that I described it as like Margiela crossed with the fifth element, crossed with a straitjacket. Cause it was like corsetry but hosiery. And like it's just really cool, really interesting, very modern. And again, on a red carpet that was like very quiet this year. I really liked what a big swing that she was taking. And then she had these little boxes. You're gonna. People who are watching the video, you'll see the picture. But she had these little boxes on the outsides of her calves that she just like affixed there in place. And I. She hasn't responded to me yet, but I'm like, I literally have to know what that is. And I have to know how you got that to stay that way because it stayed in the same place all night. And I don't know how you did it. And I Asked her how she described her look, and she said that she was going for cyber slut gone rogue with body mods. And I was like, girl, you could literally not describe something more up my alley than cyber slut gone rogue with body mods. Like, that's all I'm ever looking for.

[A]

That's so good.

[B]

Yeah. So that's. That's Lana. And that. Yeah, that's my pornhub awards little trend recap. Not its finest year, but still better than like any normal red carpet on any other year.

[A]

You know, I always look forward to your commentary on these.

[B]

Thank you. So fun.

[A]

Something I've been noticing lately is the incorporation of the human body into an advertisement or a billboard.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which, like, I don't even know how to describe it exactly. Like, I've been talking a lot about, like, in beauty, people using the body as a billboard. Like, you'll put those Chanel under eye patches on or whatever it is, but selfie is shelfie.

[B]

I think that's what you used to say.

[A]

Exactly. Although I've come up with a much better name for that. I'm writing an article about it right now. Vanity. You become the vanity genius.

[B]

Yeah, literally. Yeah, literally, vanity. Yeah.

[A]

So expect that article.

[B]

So simple.

[A]

Three to four months. When I finally finish it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I'm so excited about it. But this is kind of like the opposite of it. So. Yeah, two examples recently. One Tower 28 skincare brand released this billboard in New York, Canal street, that literally sprays its face mist onto passersby. You, like press a button and you get sprayed in the face.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

SOS face mist.

[B]

Yeah, that feels like. Like a biochemical, like terrorism.

[A]

It does feel strange, right? So it retail boss is I follow the Instagram account and. Which is where I saw this first. They framed it as Tower 28 Beauty has installed the first hypochlorous acid spraying billboard in history. And I'm like, that is so specific. That's such a funny way to describe it.

[B]

I love. I. But I love when brands do stuff like that where they're like, we're the first people who ever did this hyper specific thing that we just made up right now. Like, isn't that so cool and crazy? It's like, well, no one was competing with you. This is when I fell for the poster girl C string thing that you remember the April Fool's joke. And they were like, this is the most expensive C string in history. I'm like, literally, you had no competition for that. No one is fighting for that for

[A]

that title, it's like, of course, there has never been a hypochlorous acid.

[B]

Right. No one wants that either. First of all, history.

[A]

I know.

[B]

There's no demand.

[A]

It's like this interesting thing where the physical body of the advertised to completes the purpose of the advertisement. Like, interacts with it in this really, like, intimate way. The other one I saw less related to beauty, but I could see him incorporating it into his beauty brand advertisements in some way in the future. Harry Styles. There is a tour poster for him in London that is outfitted with realistic, like 3D lips for people to kiss. And then the lips pop out and they look like real lips. They look like lips that, like, are dehydrated. Actually. They look like lips that need a little tlc. And like, there's like real hairs, like mustache hairs.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Like, you could feel the sweetness of it. And it. It looks really weird. And it says kiss me all the time. And people are literally going to this billboard, kissing it and kissing it. And I mean, I think doing some other.

[B]

I was gonna say what it sounds like is a glory hole is what it sounds like sounds to me.

[A]

And people.

[B]

Oh, it's gonna be used as one.

[A]

Yes. People are leaving comments to that effect on Internet posts about it just being like, what could we stick in here?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Sort of thing. It's really weird. Like, I thought this was AI which is fine.

[B]

I mean, they're welcome. I. They should be using Harry Styles mouth as a glory hole if he's gonna put it out there. Like, that's clearly one of the intended uses for it.

[A]

Judgment. But I. Because it's so strange. I thought it was AI and I like, researched it because I was like, there has to be a debunking thing. Like, this poster cannot exist. But it does. And I think, like, it's very dystopian to have this, like, embodied experience with an advertisement. And like, the ad literally changes your body as it is, like, working on your mind. So, like, if you're kissing the Harry Styles poster, you are picking up like, microbial life from other people who have

[B]

kissed the poster before.

[A]

It is like changing your body. Like.

[B]

Well, I was just thinking about. We've really. Isn't it funny to think. Not funny. Not funny to think that six years ago it was Covid.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And here we are. Here we are all mass kissing a poster of Harry Styles, like, putting our mouths on the. The same public object. It's like, like what a time.

[A]

Like making love to marketing, which is, you know.

[B]

Yeah. It also reminds me of. I don't know if you've ever gone to, like, Oscar Wilde's grave or something in, like, Perilous in Paris. Oh. It's like, there's a tradition to, like, put on lipstick and to kiss his grave. I don't know. So it kind of reminds me of that. Like, that is a big thing in, like, gravestone tourism is like, kissing leaving a mark, like, rubbing. Or there's like, a famous sculpture in Perilous chaise of a man lying down. People rub his dick, or women ride on it, supposedly because it gives you, like, fertility. It's like a fertility charm.

[A]

What about this? I bet there just feels like something like.

[B]

That's what I mean. It feels comparable.

[A]

Soon, like, yeah, it's gonna be worn down. I don't know.

[B]

Lip nubs.

[A]

But like. Yeah, but even with, like, the Tower 28 billboard, which is a little bit more conventional, I guess, than something that, like, asks you to kiss, et cetera, it.

[B]

It's acting. Asking for your engagement.

[A]

It's asking.

[B]

It's requiring your engagement.

[A]

It's requiring your engagement. But more than that, it's literally changing your body. Like, this is going into your face and pores. Even if it's just landing on the surface. It's interacting with your, like, physical, like, your biology on, like, a microscopic level, which I just think is, like, kind of fascinating and weird and like, on one hand, I'm like, okay, like embodiment. At least. Like, we're. We're physically interacting in a real way with things like, instead of a screen, but on the other end, like, bleak. That it's like advertisements that were, like, kissing and touching.

[B]

Yeah. Interesting. It also just makes me think about, like, when you originally were. Were saying this. Like, my first thought to me, the body as. As Billboard is always Macy Gray. And so you remember when she, like, put. What year was that? Like, 2004 or something, where she put, like, my album is dropping on oh, yes, date on the front of her dress. Well, I just always think about that because I don't know if younger people know, but, like, the reaction to her doing that was, like, insanely negative. Like, in, like, she was literally dragged for like, a month after doing that. Was, like, tacky, insane, like, so ugly. How could she. Blah, blah. Like, people are really going off on her for promoting her album at, like, the Grammys or whatever, right? And now, I don't know, just thinking about, like, where promotion for things is now, Like, I don't know.

[A]

And it's like the compliment you can get from someone is like amazing marketing.

[B]

Exactly. Totally. Yes. Like, the marketers really did their big one. Yeah. It is funny too, the way that like we become, I guess this will is kind of to my next point, but it's like the way we become more conscious of like, how this stuff is orchestrated and how it functions. And then instead of like, how do I put it? Like, instead of using that to, to approach the material more critically or like, think about it, you're just like, slay marketing team. Like, you did it, you did your big. I don't know, it's. It's just interesting. Instead of being like, oh, oh, this is how this operates. This is how this is functioning on me. Like, this is how I'm being manipulated

[A]

by other things than ever. But yeah, it's like we want to be like, less. But I think it's. I think it does have to do with like personal branding and the branding of the self and identity and stuff. It's like people relate to corporations on that level and it's like we're incorporating marketing stuff into our daily lives all the time. From like what we post on Instagram to like what we wear and how we present ourselves to people. And so it's like, true, because that is so important to identity. Yes. It's inspo. People are like, oh my God, amazing. I like, I'm gonna do that with my next launch myself to a potential new friend at this party or something, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Interesting. I mean, I guess that goes hand in hand with kind of my, my vague musing of the moment, which is just that it feels like, I don't know, that increasingly kind of the answer. You know, I've been kind of asking this question for a while now that celebrities haven't heeded my warning, which is like, as we get nakeder, like, what happens when nudity, full frontal nudity is normalized? And then like, where do we go from there? Like, how do you get the PR that you so desperately crave in this, like, low lift way on the red carpet? That's like a stunt. And I feel like increasingly the answer to that question, especially this month, has become like, we are replacing fashion statements with like more red carpet stunts than ever before or like even fashion that that transforms into some sort of like stunt behavior. I don't know. And also I was thinking about, you know, I've been asking for these kind of like time based fashions or outfits that evolve over time. And so I think inherent in that too is like a stunt, right? Like, if your Clothing is dissolving over time. Like that is technically like, would be a red carpet stunt. And so it does feel like these are kind of the logical conclusions of that request as well. The first one that got me thinking about it is Patty Harrison at the Lost Culture Baristas Awards. She pretended to give birth. Basically since the, since they announced these awards, she's been like doing this bit on her Instagram that she's like pregnant. She's like that she's immaculately conceived and she's. And this baby is growing inside or whatever. And so she's been doing this I think very funny bit on Instagram. And then it culminated with her at the awards, like fully with this fake, like nine month pregnant belly, like giving birth to this little fake baby on the red carpet. So I, I thought it was very good. I'm. To be clear, I'm pro red carpet stunts. I just think it's an interesting new fence that, that celebrities are taking that, that I wanted to highlight the other one. I cannot tell you how many people sent this to me on social media. I think not since the skims Mirkin have I been so barraged with a piece of content which is Eric Andre, the comedian at the premiere of his new film Little Brother. He, he, he basically he got out of a, a car and then like slammed the door behind him and intentionally like slammed part of his suit into the car door and had the car drive off. So it rips the suit from his body and then he's just like in ripped up torn underwear, like scrambling on the red carpet. And then so all of his step and feet photos were just him and his like torn underwear. And when was this? Probably a week ago, two weeks ago. Okay, if you look at, you look, look at his Instagram and you'll see the video.

[A]

That's so funny. I wonder if his desire for like a PR stunt had anything to do with the new Emrata essay on.

[B]

Oh, on her. I didn't even think about that, like

[A]

post divorce as a mother because he was like her first public.

[B]

He was. I didn't even think about that. Wow, interesting that, let's say also a PR stunt. Those two together was very much a PR stunt. But you're so, so right. I didn't even think about her essay.

[A]

Feuding, PR stunts.

[B]

Yeah, totally hand in hand, at least part and parcel of some sort of bit. Also, Eric Andre, as I'm, he's always, he's very much my cup of tea. He's very like his, his comedy, like his point of View. I don't know. Like, the Eric Andre show was very formative to me.

[A]

I never watched it.

[B]

Oh my God. I think it's one. I think it's so brilliant. It's so insane. It's very Andy Kaufman. It's a commitment to the bit just above and beyond and the, and the way he was genuinely fooling celebrities also quite, quite delightful because they really did not know what to make of him. And also it was a time slight like before. I don't know. I feel like his bit is kind of very normalized now. And that is kind of like, especially with TikTokers and like YouTube prank people. I feel like what Eric Andre does is now kind of like hit max saturation point and kind of like its worst common denominator. But he was doing it at like such a high brow, low brow way. I don't know. It's perfectly, it strikes my fancy perfectly. So him doing this, I was just like, yeah, of course he, like, of course he and I are on the same page about a red carpet gimmick such as this. And yeah, I don't know, it was also just making me think, like I said again about like what a flop nudity has turned out to be. And I think we're, I just, I mean, I think we've seen since Bianca Censori, it's like we really haven't kind of seen anything provocative like that. And even people who are going kind of nude, it certainly isn't making the waves that it would have made in the past for the same outfit. And I, I was also struck by this week interview public. We published our Madonna cover story and even. Big deal. Very exciting. But even in the COVID story, she and Mel are talking about nudity and how she kind of paved the way for like just how naked pop stars are today. And she said, I'll, I'll read the quote because I thought it was. It's mess all over. She said, because now everyone's naked now I don't want to be naked because everyone's naked. That's my nature. I want to do what people are not doing, which is thinking and wearing clothes. And that's awesome. I do.

[A]

I love that so much.

[B]

Yeah. But that really just gets to the crux of it for me is like, right. What people aren't doing is like thinking deeply and wearing clothes and like. And when nudity is everywhere, nudity isn't the exciting thing. Suddenly thinking and wearing clothes, like, is the transgressive exciting thing. And yeah, and so like, yeah, we have to like think beyond just like

[A]

flashing people like a message for Madonna. If she's listening, which is.

[B]

Sure she is.

[A]

I love that so much. Apply that to your beauty ethos. Like, please, please.

[B]

Now you're asking a little too much of the Queen of Pop. Come on now, you can do that with beauty too.

[A]

No one's aging in your industry, Madonna. You could be the first wrinkly ass sexy pop star. Let's do it.

[B]

You know that I agree with you a thousand percent. I mean it would literally be the most radical, transgressive thing she could do is like let herself age naturally and also not put her face through all the facetune filters in the Photoshop and let us really see what an aging pop star looks like and just like fully embrace it. Like filler, Botox and all. Like just let us see it. I don't know, I think that would be like radical in a way that to me feels truly Madonna. Like that's who she always has been. That's who's the figure she's always been in society. And it's, it's sad to me that like, yeah, she can't break free of that beauty. I mean, I certainly understand why also given who she is and the figure that she is in society. But it's just like, it's, it just sucks. You want to see that person grow up to be the same transgressive feminist figure and do the cool things. But yeah, that's, that's a no, that's a bridge too far. But she will be having thoughts and wearing clothes, so I, I value her for that. And then just like one other random musing I'll tack onto this just on the topic of like stunts that I, I don't have like a profound thought about it. Just something I've been thinking about all month because I guess people are watching the video, we can insert the photos. But did you see these photos of Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds, these paparazzi photos they staged?

[A]

Oh, I saw them and I said immediately. I wonder what Emily has to say about these very obviously staged photos. Woo.

[B]

Yeah, they were rough. I found them to be very dark sided. I found them to have like a very sinister energy to them just, just below the, the veneer of like light hearted, joyous carefreeness they were trying to project via them.

[A]

Yeah, basically like desperation underneath.

[B]

Oh, the darkest desperation I've ever felt palpably in a, in an image of two strangers. Very alarming stuff. I just frantic, frantic energy is kind of raining off off this paparazzi set. And it came kind of like, I don't know, a couple weeks after the Met gala. And of course, the same day that Blake attended the Met gala is the same day that she settled with Justin Baldoni in court, or they both settled together in court. And so it's very clearly them trying to, like, distance themselves from these negative headlines and create kind of like this weird buffer fluff content that, like, ultimately just, like, pushes down the Google SEO search results for, like, the bad stuff that their names are attached to. But I don't know, looking at how, like, overtly staged these were, like, to the point that they're looking dead in the camera. And at one point, Ryan Reynolds is doing his kind of, like, cheeky thing he does in, like, advertisements. He does, you know, like, the knowing wink of like, no, I'm in on the joke. Like, I'm part. It's like, no, you're not, because you're still doing it. Like, if you were in on the joke, it's. None of us would have to suffer through this moment at all. At all. But I don't know, I just. I was thinking about the overtness of that and also the level of fame that those two are and this is. And the combination of the overtness and how famous they are is kind of something we never would have previously seen in another decade of celebrity. Like, it was very, very frowned upon. I actually. Yeah, sorry, this is another tangent, but I feel like ID or the cut also just had a story about, like, we used celebrities used to be ashamed of selling out. Do you know what I'm talking about? Someone just wrote the story because Timothy did, like.

[A]

I feel like I saw.

[B]

I think it's ID on substack. Yeah. I think it was an id and I. I thought it was a really good story. Yeah. But I think they did it because Timothy Chalamet just did, like, a cal. Like a sports gambling betting bad thing. And they were like, you know, celebrities used to be, like, ashamed of selling out. And I don't know, I feel similarly about this paparazzi thing. It's just like, yeah, there did used to be more of, like, a shame around kind of the trappings of what one has to do to be famous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think is both, like, the horrible advertisements and, like, selling stuff. It's also calling the paparazzi on yourself and, like, staging tabloid narratives and, like, planting stories and planting source quotes and stuff and all of that. They've becoming radically less shameful about and more overt about and like, just embraced Brace wholeheartedly. And I was thinking specifically about in 2021, when I worked at Vanity Fair, I wrote this story about celebrities calling the paparazzi on themselves, specifically, a list celebrities for the first time calling paparazzi on themselves specifically because of Ben Affleck and Anna De Armas, because they were going out every single day of the pandemic. They were walking their dogs, quote, unquote, down the same street with the same paparazzi with, like, crystal clear views, no one blocking them, no one behind them. That's a. That's a staged photograph. Right. And so I wrote the story at the time being like, wow, that's like kind of a crazy radical act for, like, someone as famous as they are to be, like, doing this so overtly. And now flash forward five years, it's like, that is totally. It was always the norm, but now they've kind of embraced it as, like, a meme of the norm. And I don't know, it's just curious to me, again, along with kind of the. What we're talking about with the marketing and stuff, like, we've never been more aware of how this stuff operates. And to me, this is an extension of kind of the thought I originally had when social media first came around in the 2010s, is like, how does a list celebrity. How does aura, as we've talked about, like, the Benjamin, Walter Benjamin aura. How does it survive this? Yeah, you know, like. Like when kind of the machine of fame and celebrity is in your face like this, like, what becomes of the aura? And can celebrities survive without aura? I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

That's a very good question in my mind, because it's like, yes, my instinct is to be like, oh, there is no aura left.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't feel any aura from Blake.

[B]

Right. And I. And I don't either. But so is the machine just, like, too big to fail? Like, there's so much invested into these people and. And this. This arm of capitalism.

[A]

Some people feel something from them. Like, I don't.

[B]

But do they? Or are they just programmed to feel that way from being, like, indoctrinated in Hollywood and celebrity and, like, what we're supposed to feel, quote, unquote, for these people versus, like, what is actually inspired with us? Because, yeah, I don't know. Like, when I think about growing up with someone like a Rihanna or a Beyonce, like, I do genuinely. There were moments when I genuinely felt the aura, and I do feel that for them. I'm not saying I feel that all the time for them. But there are certainly moments of you're like, oh, and that is why you're a famous person. Like. Like I said with. With my cottage core queen. Like, there are. There are people, and there are moments where you're just like. You are fascinating for some X factor. Beyond that I can't put my finger on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that. And thus why you are a celebrity, why you're in front of the camera. But I don't know. I don't really feel that way about anyone anymore. And I don't know if it's like, aging or our times or how celebrity is produced now or.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't have any concrete thought. I just wanted to put it out there because I thought it was. I thought the photo set was so insane. It is. And it just felt like a crystallization of everything that's going wrong with our. Our current relationship with celebrity. And, like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also because they are. I don't know. They all are just doing it for the check in a very tangible way where I feel like they used to be better at kind of hiding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The transactional nature of all of this from us, in a way.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, speaking of, you know, destroying your own aura.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I feel like we have to talk about the clavicular nose job.

[B]

Oh, baby, it's tough.

[A]

Have you seen this?

[B]

Of course. Of course I have. I've been sent it from every angle.

[A]

Okay. So there's some interesting stuff here that I feel like hasn't quite been covered the way it should be. First. So clavicular looks. Maxing influencer extraordinaire contacted Dr. Miami, who's this plastic surgeon who goes by Dr.

[B]

Miami, which is how you know he's good.

[A]

He's the best.

[B]

That's how you know he's the best. He posts your surgery on social media and calls himself Dr. Miami. Live streams it. Horrifying.

[A]

So he got in contact with the plastic surgeon about a scar revision. Apparently.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then somehow, within the course of their meeting, decided, oh, no, actually, I want a lot of surgery and.

[B]

Makes sense. Schedule sounds. Right.

[A]

A rhinoplasty. An autoplasty.

[B]

What's an autoplasty?

[A]

I am so jealous. If I were to abandon all of my values tomorrow, I would get an autoplasty. A S, a P. Okay. Is pinning your ears back?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. To, like, pin them closer to your head. I want this.

[B]

I've heard you talk about this before. I forget the name of it. Autoplasty.

[A]

Yeah, I know. So I'm super jealous, but he did that. But anyway, so he gets a nose job from Dr. Miami. Procedure is live streamed. He unveiled it recently, like a month post procedure. It does not look great.

[B]

Oh, it looks real bad, actually.

[A]

Yeah, I know. The Internet definitely doesn't like it. And they're, you know, ironically using clavicular's own metrics of, like, what is attractive to tear him down. They're saying, like, his nostril hair is off. It looks too feminine.

[B]

It's honestly the perfect punishment for the crime. You know what I mean? Couldn't have happened to a. To a worse person. More perfect subject.

[A]

It's like a Dr. Frankenstein thing. Like, you created these metrics and now your creation is going to destroy you.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Also, I don't know if you've seen the memes. Maybe you're about to get to it.

[A]

No, I don't. I didn't really see any.

[B]

Oh, there's a lot of memes about it. Comparing him to young Sheldon. Sheldon.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I know this because my friend Emily is recently become obsessed with the show Young Sheldon for some reason. So she's like, barraging me with information about young Sheldon. She's gonna love that. I'm calling this out too, on the podcast, but. So she was showing me the memes of. People are comparing him with his new nose to young Sheldon. And then the actor who plays young Sheldon was commenting on the post and being, like, mogged the hell out of him.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

Like, I look 10 million times better than him. I am mogging the hell out of him as young Sheldon.

[A]

I mean, he is.

[B]

He is. And he's not wrong.

[A]

Is Mogging clavicular? Yeah, people have been saying that he's, like, descending.

[B]

Yeah, he's descending.

[A]

He's saying, you know, once the swelling goes down, I'm going to be mogging again. It's all very.

[B]

Unfortunately, I don't.

[A]

No, he look. He just looks like. And I mean, the point of this is not to say he looks better or worse. It's more of.

[B]

I'm gonna say he looks worse.

[A]

The interventions. And let me take in what we get. Yeah, I mean, he just looks, like, plainer. He does not look plainer anymore. He doesn't have.

[B]

He looks more generic.

[A]

Yeah, he just looks generic. There's nothing about him that would, like, grab you to be like, oh, let. Let my eyes, like, attach to this person, you know? And look.

[B]

You know, my co worker was saying that her mom told her this, and I actually think it's a great. I Don't know. It's very powerful to me. I think it's very true. And I think more people should say this, that her mom told her that your nose is like the fingerprint of the face and that it is made specifically for you and that. And it, like, works in harmony for you. And so when you start messing around with it, it's like it throws everything else about your face into weird proportions because it's. It was designed to fit your face. And I was like, I think that's really beautiful, actually.

[A]

I think that's a beautiful way to look at it. And I feel like this. Like, we've seen such a wave of media coverage of clavicular pre nose job, and it was like these kind of glowing profiles from everywhere. And I'm like, this is such a more interesting story of, like, the sort of cautionary tale.

[B]

I agree. Yeah.

[A]

But we really haven't gotten much mean.

[B]

And succumbing to your own warped values and your own, like, metrics of beauty and stuff and having it used against you and also thinking, I think, really interesting him saying, like, oh, well, once the swelling goes down, like, I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna mog so hard, blah, blah, blah. Because it's also, like, a failure to understand your own weird alpha male culture that you've created where it's like, no, literally, like one slip up, like one misstep, one perceived weakness and fall from grace and you'll never come back from. Because that's the culture that you build.

[A]

That's the way he's slipping into now is like, his. His defensiveness is feeling very Elon Musk to me. He, like, posted a picture of him with his, like, nose job, like, bandages on, posing next to, like, a Michael Jackson impersonator, being like, who wore it better Sort of thing. And I'm like, I don't know. That feels like a very musky way to try and make fun of yourself, but you're just like, you're not there. You're not.

[B]

Yes. That feels like. Do you remember when Elon bought Twitter and he, like, carried a sink into the office or something? Do you remember? And he was like, it's a joke. Like, it's a pun. And everyone's like, it's literally not fun funny at all. It doesn't make any sense. It's not funny. It's like, a lot of work for a joke that no one is amused by. That's what clavicular feels like to me right now. Or it's like, no one's laughing.

[A]

Yeah, no one is laughing. It's all very sad to me. But what the real story is here that I don't feel anyone has adequately covered yet at this moment in time, is the story of Dr. Miami, the story of his surgeon. Do you know anything about Dr. Miami? Has this a little circulating?

[B]

Okay, I know, like, a tiny bit about Dr. Miami just because I. I am obsessed with all the weird celebrity plastic surgeon fraudsters and scam artists. And then I do know a little bit about his assistant and, like, the tick tock drama. Oh, he was like, whatever. He was, like, not paying her appropriately and, like, also, like, bullying her into getting plastic surgery. Like, telling her every day that she needed to, like, fix this thing about herself until she got it fixed. And then he's told her, like, it actually didn't fix it. Whatever. It's a lot of, like, weird kind of like sexual assault or not assault, sexual harassment. Like a Jason. Yeah, but you know what I mean. It's like that weird gray zone because you're also, like, you're in an aesthetic office. Like, you're in a plastic surgery office. So it's like, also part of your job. But he is, like, commenting about the shortcomings of your body every day until you feel so bad about something you never thought about that you are fixing it. I don't. That feels like a new form of, like, workplace harassment that.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. No, that's not okay. But I'm not surprised.

[B]

Anyway, that's my Dr. Miami.

[A]

A little bit more about this guy. Well, first of all, yes, they say he's, like, a celebrity plastic surgeon, but his biggest clients, I think, are two former Teen mom cast members.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Abraham and Caitlin Lowry. Which I'm like.

[B]

Which Farah is not.

[A]

Advertisement.

[B]

No, no, no. Farah is not a great advert. She's also. She's spoken, I believe, about having botched work done. Yeah, I don't know if it was his work, but the first result when

[A]

you're like, what celebrities does Dr. Miami.

[B]

Okay, cool. Teen moms Sick.

[A]

That's. That's who it is. Okay. He was. Before his nickname was Dr. Miami. His name was Dr. Schnoz, which. I'll get to that in a minute. But his real name is Michael Salzhauer.

[B]

Okay, so does it sell as well as schnoz or Miami?

[A]

Dr. Salzhauer. Okay. He's just not. Well, in 2008, he wrote a book called My Beautiful Mother. It's a children's book called My Beautiful Mother.

[B]

I love he's just not well. As the summer. He's just not well.

[A]

I mean, he wrote this children's book, this illustrated children's book to explain plastic surgery to kids. And it's about a girl whose mom gets a tummy tuck, a nose job, and a boob job.

[B]

And now she's beautiful.

[A]

And now she's beautiful. Like it literally says in the book, like, mommy's new nose will be prettier.

[B]

Like, sure.

[A]

Wild stuff. There is one copy of My Beautiful Mother left on Amazon, but it's $70, and I'm like, do I have to buy it?

[B]

You have to buy.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna pull up it right now as we're talking. I don't forget. Right.

[B]

Have you looked on ebay?

[A]

No. Okay. I have it.

[B]

Oh. Or, you know, go to, like, go to ABE books or thrift books, and they will have it for sure.

[A]

It's actually called My Beautiful Mommy, not My Beautiful Mother. My Beautiful.

[B]

And I just said that as a joke. And of course, I was just. I said My Beautiful Mommy as a joke. And of course, it's actually My Beautiful Mommy.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

Gross.

[A]

My Beautiful Mommy.

[B]

Okay, stop it. Also, why do you need to explain that to children?

[A]

It gets so much worse.

[B]

Do you need to explain mommy's plastic surgery to children? I just don't know that that's happening enough to.

[A]

I don't think there's a big enough market, but for. I mean, see, like, I just don't think Dr. Miami is the man for the job to explain it.

[B]

No, definitely not.

[A]

Maybe a need for it for some children. Like, I remember, you know, someone I went to college with, everyone in their family got nose jobs, and she remembers her mom getting her nose job, and she got the same nose as her mother, and it was just kind of like a given. Like, you are going to get a nose job at 16, too. And, like, she has very complicated feelings like. Like growing up like that. And she did get the nose job, and she sort of regretted it. And. Yeah, I mean, I.

[B]

And you know what? I retract it now because, like, all of the Kardashians children's do need My Beautiful Mommy. Not this book, but like, a version

[A]

of your beautiful mommy.

[B]

But they need a version of my beautiful mommy. They need the person. They need your. My Beautiful mommy. Not. Not Dr. Miami's beautiful mommy.

[A]

I'm gonna be writing My Ugly Mommy.

[B]

My Ugly Mommy. Please write My Ugly Mommy. I would buy the hell out of that book. That sounds so good.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

My Ugly Mommy.

[A]

My Ugly Mommy. Okay, that's my next project. But no, Dr. Miami gets so much worse. So he was in the News in 2012 for offering free nose jobs to young Orthodox Jews to help them find a husband, as reported by the Washington post.

[B]

Hence the Dr. Schnauz.

[A]

He is Jewish.

[B]

Okay, I was just gonna ask, because I was like, you really can't be doing that and calling yourself Schnoz if you aren't Jewish. Like, then we have a really big problem. It's already a problem.

[A]

But you, Emily, it gets so much worse. It gets so much worse.

[B]

I'm not prepared.

[A]

So in 2012, he commissioned a music video. He commissioned a song about rhinoplasty about nose jobs from this band called the Groggers, which is an Orthodox Jewish pop punk band. So he asked them to write a song about getting a nose job and do a music video incorporating him into it.

[B]

What year is 2012?

[A]

You know, which is, like, not long enough ago for this to have been, like, happening.

[B]

Not at all. But, you know, I was just thinking, HBO posted that clip of Remembering Girls where Marnie makes that terrible music video to what I am. And I was watching that clip this morning, actually, and I was thinking, it's like, no, people were really doing this, like, on the Internet in the early 2000, like, in the 2010, 2012 era. And now you're just proving my point exactly with, like, they were making music videos like. Like, that was not even a parody. Like, people were actually making music videos like that on early YouTube. So.

[A]

And to, like, get them to make this song and music video, he offered a free nose job to anyone in the band. And the lead singer did it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

The lead singer did it. And they filmed the video. The premise of this video was about a guy in high school with a big nose who, like, wants the hot girl but can't get her because his nose is big. So he gets a nose job, and then he gets a different really hot girl at the end of the.

[B]

Well, he gets the real hot girl now that he's hot with a hot nose. You know, you don't have to settle.

[A]

And, like, he literally. He literally got the nose job. Dr. Miami gave him the nose job in the middle of filming so that they could film it before and film it after. And, like, that's how this video came about. And, I mean, this is horrifying. And the American Society of Plastic Surgeons was really upset about it, and they called the video, like, inappropriate and offensive. They opened up an ethics investigation into him because it. They did find that it violates the American Society of Plastic Surgeon code of ethics. But I cannot find any information on whether he faced any consequences. And in fact it looks like he did not. Like, it seems like he wasn't fined, he wasn't kicked out of the Society of Plastic Surgeons. I mean fact check me on that, if anyone knows any differently. But I could not find anything about him facing a consequence for this other than like the outrage in the news and from the Jewish community.

[B]

Right. Because also I mean this is worse obviously. But I, I was even just thinking with like the live streaming and sir of surgeries and stuff too like that to me also feels like it's probably some sort of code of ethics violation

[A]

or at least traditionally there are ethics papers on it because I was looking up in like pubmed and everything like anything about what happens to an ethics violation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What, what's the causes an ethics violation and the first things that popped up when I like googled his name were some papers on the ethics of like live streaming surgeries and posting surgeries and things like that.

[B]

But there's no like, but it doesn't actually like violate any like HIPAA law or like your license doesn't get dinged or consent.

[A]

I think it's fine, it seems like but like yeah, it's crazy because even

[B]

if you're consenting to it, like you're unconscious ultimately during it. So it's like can you, can you really consent to it when you don't actually know what's even happening? Right. You can't revoke consent. You don't actually know how you're being portrayed or like what's being shown because you're unconscious. Yeah, I don't know, it seems bad.

[A]

Very bizarre. I wonder what the clavicular live stream was like. They, I know they did on his.

[B]

Couldn't possibly watch.

[A]

But yeah, I just thought this was going to be a crazy story about, you know, clavicular doing another crazy thing and I was like, oh my God, his surgeon is crazy. So much more fascinating and so much worse. And like I, I think Dr. Byami needs to be stopped.

[B]

Well, if anything positive comes out of clavicular, I do think it's like he's surfacing kind of all the freaks of this industry, you know what I mean? And who have been operating like just quietly successfully along this whole time. But like the extremeness of him is bringing out the extremeness of them. I feel like in a way that's probably at least we can start like pointing to like okay, here's some of the worst operators right in the field.

[A]

My fear is just that it like desensitizes people to the extreme things. But I guess we will see.

[B]

We will see. I do think desensitization is probably right. Because I do. I remember when I wrote that essay about everything as Real Housewives for essence. Part of it was about kind of the way that they ushered in the normalcy of plastic surgery by just like being super transparent, taking you into the doctor's office, showing the procedures, filming operations and stuff. And the normalization of that, I think led to a lot of normalization site. And like even the transparency we're seeing now is very much to me Real Housewives originated.

[A]

Yeah, I agree, I agree. That was such a prescient piece, you know.

[B]

Thank you. It's fun.

[A]

Should we talk about smart glasses?

[B]

The meta glasses, the Snapchat glasses, the gorgeous, gorgeous Panopticon.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Stunning self surveillance tools.

[A]

Stylish and surveillance you cannot.

[B]

It's nothing. I'm sorry. Nothing will surveillance will ever be stylish. Like they can put this into whatever package they want. No one is tricking me into thinking this looks good or is a cool thing. You're not fooling the general public. Sorry, Never.

[A]

I think your point about like celebrities used to feel ashamed really applies here. I think. Anyone like wearing these glasses, designing these glasses, shilling these glasses? I mean, like, what.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

And we all know it's like no one's buying that you think this is a cool accessory that you like, love to have and you think it's cool to like film everything. It's like where no one is tricked by this. We all know you're getting a huge paycheck. And also we're talking about a group of people also who are like famously don't like being filmed secretly.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, we are talking about the specific group of people who extra hate surveillance of themselves and have been waging war against it for a century. They are the ones promoting us to surveil them. Like I just. Bullshit. Well, whatever.

[A]

I don't know. They engage in a lot of like self putting their own self surveillance out there for sure.

[B]

But can you imagine if you were waiting on the Kardashian wearing these like, yeah, yeah, they would. Their security guard would come and snap them off your face. Like it's just a very. It's like for you, not for me. You know what I mean? Like this is for you to monitor yourself and make yourself a social media Celebrity. Not for you to survey me, which is illegal. And how dare you. Yeah.

[A]

Complete. So, I mean, this week, basically, two competing kinds of AI Eyewear have come out. There are new glasses from Meta, and then there are new glasses from Snap Inc. The meta glasses are getting. And they're. I mean, all.

[B]

Both are heinous.

[A]

All ugly. One uglier than the other.

[B]

I'll get into the. I'll get into the uglier one in a second. I'm saving my thoughts on that. But they are both ugly. But make no mistake, okay? Nerds. They're both for nerds.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So the Meta glasses are getting a lot of pickup because there was a pair designed by Kylie, you know, designed, we'll see, by Kylie Jenner. And her voice is embed. Is programmed into the glasses so you can have Kylie, like, talk to you through the glasses.

[B]

Rise and shine.

[A]

Yeah, Like, I guess she says rise and shine when you put them on in the morning. I just. If we're going to get a Kardashian voice in an AI eyeglass experience, I want it to be Courtney. Like, I did.

[B]

Like, I agree. I agree.

[A]

So much better.

[B]

I really do agree. I'd rather be in my ear.

[A]

First ever in history line. The fir experience. The first ever AI glasses designed with Kylie Jenner is the tagline.

[B]

We have to stop. We have to stop using the word first ever. We have to stop it. Like, it doesn't mean anything.

[A]

Like, that's just so specific and weird. Like, right. Of course we know. But I guess they're anticipating a world in which Kylie Jenner will be designing

[B]

multiples of AI glasses. What an exciting proposition. Oh, my God. Thrilling.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Also signing. They're literally like, the most generic black shape. Like, I know that she modeled those off her own Chanel vintage sunglasses. Like, I know that shape. I know where you got that shape. I also just feel like.

[A]

Like at the drugstore. Like when you go into, like, a gas station.

[B]

It's just oval.

[A]

That's just the. Like, it's a nice shape.

[B]

The design is oval. The design is oval. It's not a design. It's an oval sunglasses that she put one rhinestone on one side and not on the other, which also, again, is insane to me. It's ugly. Stop.

[A]

Her big design thing for this is the charging case has a mirror inside. She said to. In an interview with Elle, she says, I know that sounds like a small thing, but to me, it's not small at all. It's everything.

[B]

It's literally nothing. It's Literally nothing.

[A]

Literally nothing. But it's also kind of like highlighting one thing that I think makes smart glasses less appealing than carrying around a phone because that's kind of how they're being positioned is like someday you won't have to carry around your phone. Like everything will just be like on your head so you can be present in the world. But I think people like to check what they look like in the back of their phone. I think, of course, to look at their phone and be like, oh, what do I look like? And like I do it on the subway all the time. I'm just like, okay, are my bangs right?

[B]

Well, that's why it's hilarious, her saying it's. That's why it's hilarious, her saying it's everything. It's like, well, no, actually my phone is everything because my phone does that. It already does that. I already have all these tools in the phone. I don't have to add a mirror onto the carrying case because my phone has everything. That's what you're describing.

[A]

$400, which is actually like pretty cheap,

[B]

I guess, compared to the other ones.

[A]

So it's like, it's. What's built into the glasses is like an AI that you can talk to. Mark Zuckerberg used the example of, hey, meta AI, tell me what to make for dinner tonight so you can talk to your glasses and get some dinner ideas.

[B]

He Mark, the smartest thing Mark Zuckerberg could do is not be public facing at all. Like, like, literally stop associating your personality and your face with this brand because you're the reason that nobody likes it. Like, you are off putting. You are scary.

[A]

Did you watch his.

[B]

Let Kylie do the work.

[A]

He did like a video interview with Emily Sundberg, a female.

[B]

I try not to consume him in any capacity because he alarms me and upsets me and I. The way he dresses is.

[A]

It was scary. He like truly sounds like a cyborg.

[B]

Yeah, he's not a human being.

[A]

And just the way the video was filmed, it like flashed back from like the interviewer. Oh, sorry.

[B]

It like how scary it was.

[A]

It was like full screen interviewer asking questions and then full screen him answering and they're clearly in different places. Like it's a virtual interview. But I don't know, it was just so creepy. I just felt like he wasn't actually in a real place or, or time. Like just sort of flowing.

[B]

That's probably what he wants.

[A]

I know, but it was really off putting and I was like, of course. I got the distinct impression that this was filmed, like the interviewer's questions and then his answers and like you just kind of like flip back and forth rather than a real time conversation. And I don't think that's what happened,

[B]

but it's just right. That's how it feeling that I got. Yeah.

[A]

And he's wearing the glasses and he's

[B]

reporting live from the back rooms. Yeah.

[A]

Yes, Literally. I don't know. It was all very strange feeling.

[B]

I find him very alarming.

[A]

Want to wear the glasses at all. Like, you should not be the face of the glasses. He's not the voice of the glasses.

[B]

Yeah, no, he's very lizard people coded to me. And again, just like, let someone more attractive and more like, let Kylie Jenner just be the face of your brand. Genuinely, like recede into the background. Like, you are never going to be the famous hot person.

[A]

Let somebody less attractive. Attractive with.

[B]

Like, let somebody less attractive. Yes, Literally just anyone with personality. Anyone with charisma or charm who can like communicate with human beings.

[A]

An ugly guy who's like, yes, they

[B]

don't have to be hot.

[A]

I'll probably buy them. You know, I.

[B]

Yes, I agree a thousand percent. Like, he is just so specifically off putting. And there's no amount of like peptides or human growth hormone or steroids or like fancy clothes from the Row or Prada that are going to fix this man. Did you see. Oh, this is also something I learned about him recently. Did you see this Vanity Fair story about how his secret stylist and how everyone's trying to figure out his secret stylist?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, Vanity Fair published. Well, Vanny Fair published this big story about how, like, everyone's hunting for Mark Zuckerberg's secret stylist and nobody knows who it is. And then at work we had this conversation. Everyone at Interview knows who it is. We're not allowed to say, but I'll tell you offline, but a little teaser for the audience. Everyone at Interview magazine knows who Mark Zuckerberg styles is. It's not a secret. It. We know we could have, we could have told Vanity Fair if they had asked us. We know who it is. But they wrote this big piece being like, oh, it's like the most like tightly held secret in the industry. Like, how is he getting it dressed so well? Like, where are the Prada pieces coming from? It's like, well, I feel like it's

[A]

probably being kept a secret because the stylist is embarrassed.

[B]

Yes, okay, I will say a thousand percent. Yes, that's exactly why it's being kept a secret. And it's anyone out there who has any vague ideas about the most famous stylists on earth, you can probably guess who it is. There's like, probably two people it could be. And it's the one who would be embarrassed by that. There's one who wouldn't be embarrassed by that. And there is one who would absolutely be embarrassed by that. And that's who it is. I'll tell you offline.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we'll chat.

[B]

Once you know it is, you're like,

[A]

oh, I have some good, juicy, off the record gossip for you too. That will be a flesh world story in a matter of.

[B]

So that's exciting.

[A]

Stay tuned.

[B]

Stay tuned, everyone.

[A]

But, yeah, no, they. He should not be the face of the menace.

[B]

I also just wanted to say about this Kylie Meta event that to me personally, the most egregious thing that transpired at this launch was the dress that Kylie was wearing. I don't know if you saw it. I find it unforgivable.

[A]

It's archival. Right. But I didn't.

[B]

It's archival. It's archival with a massive alteration made to it. And that alteration, to me, is unforgivable. And I actually need answers. I need answers as to why. I need answers from Kylie or I need answers from Meta about why this happened. So basically, she wore this Gucci by Tom Ford fall 1999 dress. And it's a beautiful dress, don't get me wrong. It's like tan, like a light buff, tan color. It's like leather. It's a halter neck with a rosette at the neckline. Yeah, well, the original is leather. I don't know if the version that she has is leather. The Runway version was leather, I believe, and it's a halter top, but it has a big cutout at the neckline. Down, down the sternum. Kylie. Kylie sewed that shut. And I find that to be criminal. It literally ruins the line of the entire dress to sew that shut. And I need to know, did she do that because of her own chest, like it was spilling out of the middle, or did she do that because Meta has some like, freak morality clause and they're like, you can't show tit at this event. And I bet you Meta has some freak morality clause that's like, you can't show tit at this event. I kind of low key think that's the case because I don't know why she would have sewn it shut otherwise. Yeah, because it wouldn't have Helped with the size chest, you know what I mean? Like, it would have helped to have it open with if it was to accommodate her chest size. Yeah, I don't know. I genuinely don't know. It makes it ugly.

[A]

Sometimes when you have a cutout and you have implants, it does look weird because, like, they're maybe just sitting so high. But I guess everyone knows that's never

[B]

stopped her before, so I don't know why. I don't. Her boobs sitting too high has never stopped her from wearing something before. Just putting that out there. But I don't know why they sewed it shut. But I really think it ruined the entire dress to sew it, like, doesn't hang right. The silhouette is like lost and I. And it's Matt. It's maddening to me that no one said that to her or saw that. I don't know whether to blame her or meta, but I'm blaming someone for ruining a Tom Ford dress.

[A]

The other glasses that came out are the Snap Ink Baby unveiled. These were unveiled at the augmented World Expo 2026. They're called SPECS. These are augmented reality glasses. They are humongous, huge. They look like they're out of like the Terminator movie or something.

[B]

Did you see it from the side? I was. I actually was speechless seeing the arm of the sunglass from the side. It's massive. It looks like he has a tiny baby head. It looks like when you put like your sunglasses on your cat or something, like as a joke. But, like, that's actually the size, that's actually the scale of these sunglasses.

[A]

That would have been a genius campaign for this because they did a big fashiony campaign for these glasses. Did you see?

[B]

No, I haven't seen the campaign for this one.

[A]

Stephen Meisel shot Jimmy Butler, Jack Harlow, Kaia Gerber. They're all wearing these glasses. And like, I don't know, in the images, the glasses don't look like that bad. They don't look good, but they certainly don't look as bad as they looked on the Snapchat.

[B]

CEO Evan Spiegel, again, stop being public facing. Just turn back face into your company and let other people be the face of your company. It's not for y'. All. You're not good at it. You're scaring people like you're nerds. It doesn't look right. We don't like it. Stop it.

[A]

Well, I think he might because good when pictures of him. Evan Spiegel, who, by the way, is married to Miranda Kerr.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who is the Victoria's Secret angel, founder of Quora Organics, which I always think is when pictures of him in these glasses at the expo started circulating, apparently the snap stock price dropped, like immediately.

[B]

I don't blame them. I don't blame them because they look so silly.

[A]

Like, no one's gonna wait.

[B]

So silly. Hideous.

[A]

What, like $2200?

[B]

Yes. That's why I was saying that 400 is not bad because, like, what makes these 2200? Like, what's happening in there? No, and it's not even like the. The microprocessor or something because it's. Again, it's. They're massive. They're three times the size of the metal one. I don't understand. They're so insane. And also looking at them, I was thinking what's also insane about them is they look a lot like Jacques Marimage sunglasses, which are like thousand dollars sunglasses. Yes. And I was like, why would you not work with them to make like a normal looking. Because those are like very trendy, popular sunglasses right now that everyone is buying that already cost $1,000. So you'd even be speaking to the right customer in the right, right price bracket. You know what I mean? Like, why wouldn't you just let them make you a.

[A]

No, I was heinous version, I would say.

[B]

Oh, I wouldn't. No, of course, of course, of course. Maybe they didn't, but like, knock them off better then. Knock them off better. You don't have to do this. I. I can't wait for people to see the photo of it on his head because it's so crazy. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Yeah, but also, like, is, nobody wants this. That's also the thing I keep coming back to is like, who's asking for this? Who wants this? This feels like AI where they're just like foisting it all. So they're like, look at this new technology. Definitely be part of your everyday life.

[A]

It's like worry about, like, if it's like AI and they're sort of forcing it, will it just become normalized?

[B]

I think, yeah.

[A]

Wearing these glasses. Yeah, I guess so. It makes me worried about like data surveillance, privacy.

[B]

Of course, of course. Normal things we all should be concerned about for sure. But I think it definitely will become normalized because I even just think about the way young people talk about, like, you know, wanting to capture moments for like social media and TikTok or whatever and not getting their phone out fast enough. And if that is your number one anxiety about content creation and, like, missing viral moments. Like, of course, having it built into your glasses where you could just be like, boop. Yeah, well, there's a market for that.

[A]

A big marketing word for Mark Zuckerberg with these glasses is presence. And, like, they're pushing the idea that wearing these glasses actually helps you be more present in the world because you're not looking at your phone or taking out your phone, but then what, you're

[B]

looking at your phone on your glasses.

[A]

I know the way that he describes being present in the world is then the merging of the physical and digital worlds. And I'm like, that's literally not presence in the real world. That is kind of augmenting the real world in a way that you cannot

[B]

separate one from ultimate distraction. Right.

[A]

Yeah, that's not. That's not presence, my guy.

[B]

But he's obsessed. He, you know, ever since the metaverse flopped so hard, he's, like, obsessed with getting us into this, like, weird digital augmented reality world that none of us want to be in. And we keep telling him we don't want to be in, that you're bad at it. And he's like, well, let me try it this way. And we're like, hey, so that's still creepy. And, no, nobody likes it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Unfortunately, remember when he introduced legs, Maybe my favorite? I think that was his best invention. I was, like, honestly, the most pleased with him I've ever been. When he. When he let us have legs. Yeah. When he invented legs and, like, let us have them in the metaverse, I was like, honestly, you're doing your big one there that you finally figured it out. That is all that people wanted was legs in the metaverse.

[A]

All we need is leg. All you need is legs. I do, unfortunately think that there are going to be some, like, beauty industry applications for the glasses. I feel like we're seeing a big surge of, like, AI and beauty, specifically for, like, skin scanning and skin checks, which could be helpful with, like, skin cancer, but is mostly being used for, like, how deep are your wrinkles underneath?

[B]

You're old, you're ugly.

[A]

Like, there's probably some sort of use case for the glasses incorporating that kind of technology.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was also thinking, like, we already have magnetic lash extensions and fake lashes. Like, how far away are we from getting metal lashes?

[B]

Wow. You know, they should be working on that right now. If they are, they're making a huge mistake. And also, just, like, eye makeup in general, like, if they could just project, like, eye makeup and lashes onto your real eye, like, through the glass.

[A]

They're already doing like a beauty filter. It's a beauty filter completely because it's really like a process prosthetic. What's happening is like the technology is a, as a prosthetic on your body. So there's just like a real natural fit with like plastic surgery and procedures that I feel like is going to blow up once this becomes a little bit more normal.

[B]

Also, can I tell you that whenever people talk about magnetic lashes, literally the first mental image that appears is, you know that those eyelashes you can put on cars.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Every time people talk about magnetic lashes, that's literally the picture that comes in my head. I'm like, right, car eyelashes. Car eyelashes. That's what it is.

[A]

I'm thinking of merch. I'm thinking, how can I make car eyelashes mess world merch with love? I don't know. With love.

[B]

I don't know either. But I would love to see it. I'd love for you to ruminate on that also. I can see a lot of use cases in fashion for this as well with like, because they're already trying to do those like AI dressing room things. So I can see like virtual tropics try ons like you can like purchase, you know, like put a 99 cent deposit down or whatever and like try on this dress at home with your

[A]

virtual dresses yourself in the mirror and

[B]

in the mirror with the dress like projected onto your body. Yeah, that's. That would be my guess because they've been really pushing that agenda for a long time and it's not working and it's not taking off. But I can see it. I can see the like try on aspect or like, or styling also like, you know, like meta styling options where like people project outfits onto you.

[A]

Yeah, I could see that. There's also a lot of issues that could pop up with it obviously. But like I'm thinking of last year.

[B]

It's perfect,

[A]

you know, obvious statement, but I'm just thinking of like in appointments and stuff, like beauty appointments with people wearing the glasses. Like last year at European Wax center there was that. Yeah, I remember item where a tech was wearing the meta Ray Ban glasses and said they weren't recording but the client like rightfully felt uncomfortable about somebody waxing her labia while wearing smart glasses. So yeah, I don't know, I'm like imagining the type of behind the scenes plastic surgery content we're gonna get from

[B]

the surgeon influencers and just like horrific invasions of privacy on every front. Like my thought with new technology always is like of course the only people in the rooms making these decisions are like billionaire white men. Because it's obviously like when tech comes out like this, every, I think woman and every person of color, like, your brain immediately goes to worst case use scenario, which is always going to be like, violence, rape, you know, horrors. It's like, obviously these glasses are going to be used to horrific violating ends specifically against women, I feel. And there. It's like, there's no safety precautions. There's no concern for that put in place. They don't bring that up at all as like, oh, yeah, we've thought of that and here's what we've put in place. Like, make sure that is up there. Like, well, there's a red light on the front and it's blinking when it's recording. So that'll keep you safe.

[A]

Nobody could hack that.

[B]

No one could possibly. You can't put electrical tape over that. Yeah. There's no mods you can do for that. Like, that's foolproof. That's going to keep all you gals real, real safe. It's the same when there's some technology they're rolling out. Oh, it was Instagram. Where? The new Instagram thing where it like shares your location with everyone. Do you know about this?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, it like, you should check then that it's turned off because it's always. It's automatically turned on. You have to go manually turn it off. But it literally, like, it's a Snap mat, you know, because Snapchat always had that where it would like, show you where your friends were on the map. It's that but for Instagram. And so it like shows people like, literally where you are. And I'm always like, right, so that's for stockage murder.

[A]

I love, like, right. For me, that's a no.

[B]

I do it with one person because they bullied me into it. But. And also I do. I share with my friend Cass. And when Cass was pregnant, it honestly was helpful to share location with her because I didn't have to ask her all the time. If she'd gone into lab, I could just see if she was at her house or not. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay, she's still good.

[A]

I can see it being convenient, but

[B]

that's the only time I've ever found it convenient. But like, all these, they're always tracking her location. I'm like, right, so that's going to be used to track down women and stalk them and harass them.

[A]

Be good. The one, like, interesting, potentially good use case, I Could see, although you just don't, you don't need glasses to do this. So I don't know why I'm convincing

[B]

myself any glasses to do any of

[A]

this, but I can see there being a big integration in the sun care space with the sunglasses and like, no, you know, UV index numbers for where you are, temperature numbers, air quality when your sunscreen has worn off. I think, like, I'm not saying we should totally saying that's going to happen next year. Prediction, put it on the list right now.

[B]

That is a very smart way they should be used, but it's honestly too practical, I think is the problem with that. And also your, again, I will say your phone does do that. Your phone does track. You don't need it in your eyeglass.

[A]

But yeah. Oh, God. Mess of the month.

[B]

It's mess of the month. I can go. Yeah. Mine's very simple and straightforward. It's just QR codes. I got in a fight with some of my readers about this, but I just think they're stupid. I think qr, not my readers. Sorry. I think QR codes are stupid. No.

[A]

Who, who is defending QR codes as not stupid people?

[B]

Oh, no, I don't know. People like them. People are defending them.

[A]

You are correct.

[B]

Thank you. Correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wrote about this in my newsletter, but I just think that it's, it feels like a technology, it's a 90s technology that they're trying to sell us as the cutting edge future. And it's just not. There's too many steps, there's too many states. Like, it's just, it's not the seamless dream of a technology dissemination that it's being promised as. Like, we surely can do better. Like, honestly, even airdropping is like radically better and more futuristic to me than a QR code will ever be. And I don't know why I'm being sold it at every turn as though it's like, cool in the future. Anyway, this, this came up because I saw a picture of Lizzo and Lizzo was wearing a T shirt with a bedazzled QR code on it that, like, took you to her new album. And I was just like, it's just not cheap chic. Like, you're not going to trick me by bedazzling. Doesn't even look like QR codes aesthetically don't even, like, look good. It's not a good way to share information, I maintain. And so anyway, I was, I was pissed about that. But then, honestly, this is a new development that just came in today that kind of reframes. The Lizzo thing for me is I was, I was just doing some, like, googling about it, writing as I was prepping our doc for today. And then I realized that for Lizzo, QR codes might actually be the coolest thing ever because it's. I think she just found out what they are. I mean, like, literally, I think she found out what they are on, like the first of June. So to her, this is a brand new cutting edge technology that, like, actually is very, very cool. And in that light, I. I don't blame her for thinking that's like, way to disseminate your album. Because basically I saw that one of her fans had tweeted out a photo, like, had photoshopped a photo, and they said, like, oh, like pre, pre, save her new album, you know, and they have the QR code on it to go pre, save her new album. And Lizzo retweeted that tweet and said all caps, gagging. This actually works with like five question marks and exclamation points. And I was like, what do you mean? There's actually like. Of course it actually works. It's a QR code. But I think she'd never seen a QR code before.

[A]

I don't know how, but that's beautiful. That's a really nice.

[B]

I don't know how either. Like, did you not go anywhere during

[A]

the pandemic and just, like, relive the magic of my first QR code?

[B]

Sure. Wow. Yes, that I agree with. The first time I ever used a QR code. Sure. At this point, no, it feels like a punishment to me. Anyway, QR codes are my mess of the month, but I am thrilled for Lizzo that she's never interacted with one before this album cycle. Like, good for you. Honestly, may we all be so blessed to never experience a QR code ever again.

[A]

I love that for Lizzo.

[B]

I love that for her too.

[A]

My mess of the month actually came courtesy of a few. Emily sent me a link to this bustle story called the Gen Z Glow down is Real. I was immediately filled with rage because I was like, I know this isn't going to be anything that I want it to be. It's not. So the glow down. Yeah. Bustle in this piece defines the glow down as well. It says 20 somethings may not be able to easily score promotions or control the cost of living, so they're sacrificing elements of their beauty routines for the sake of their wallets. It goes on to say The Gen Z glow down doesn't mean feeling straight up drab. But instead of committing to hair, skin, makeup, tanning, waxing and nails, they're giving up certain luxuries or downgrading the cost of others. And the story, like, tracks the stories of a couple people within it or getting uglier. But they're not. Like, none of this is about reevaluating their relationship to beauty really, or getting uglier. What this article is describing is budgeting.

[B]

It's just budgeting, finances, inflation.

[A]

This is a budget for those who still want to be beautiful but don't have a ton of money. Like, which is a lot of people. It's most people. Like, this is not a trend or phenomenon.

[B]

Yeah. Especially women who are overwhelmingly spending a lot of that money, you know, like, who are taking on that burden financially in much larger numbers than men.

[A]

And like, in the beginning of the article it talks about how like, not having these funds is changing how people feel about beauty. But no, like, later in the article it says, like, while for the time being, figuring out what's worth the money may lead to some sacrifices, 20 somethings are looking ahead to when their budgets allow for more beauty treatments.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Like, it's not like we're learning any lessons here. I also just think it's like crazy to describe using fewer products as glowing down.

[B]

Yeah, that's why I sent it to you originally is I just found the framing of the piece to be really nefarious and to imply that like, right, you're glowing down, you're getting ugly simply because you're saying scaling back on beauty investments for practical financial reasons. Like you're making smart financial decisions for yourself as a woman. And therefore you're glowing down even though you're still participating in beauty, you're still getting certain procedures. Like you're still getting stuff done. Like, you are still investing in beauty, you are still like caring about your appearance. Like, yeah, I don't know, it's like, okay, so you don't want us to be. Have any savings. I guess.

[A]

I mean, it's basically like the, this article is just saying you're not ugly, you're poor.

[B]

Yeah, that's literally it. Yeah.

[A]

But it's also just like, you know, on a practical level, using fewer products can actually be a glow up. Like, I, my skin has never been better than when I stopped using skincare. I've never gotten compliments on my skin in my life until I stopped caring about products and using it. And just.

[B]

I agree, never.

[A]

So it's like, this could be a glow up. But what really annoys me about this story, I'll make it quick. Is that I wrote the same story over a year ago basically for Vogue business. And it was called will we ever burn out on Beauty? And it literally was about the same thing of what people are going to do as they have less money for beauty, but beauty is more important in society than ever. And it came to just like very different conclusions with the same information. So I'll kind of put. I'll put that in the show notes because I think it did a better job. I'm sorry.

[B]

Yes. You just didn't rage, bait, package it, you know, Exactly. And that's your bad. That's how you up. You. You failed to understand our modern attention economy and that we need to like, neg women into reading articles that are helpful.

[A]

If you don't have any money, you're probably looking worse.

[B]

You're ugly. You're glowing down.

[A]

Poor and ugly.

[B]

Bankrupt yourself for beauty. That's your next article.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Put yourself extreme poverty to be gorgeous and then the world will respect you.

[A]

Yeah, people do. I know someone paying off a loan for a big plastic surgery that they really could not and should not have afforded. And I'm like, how did you even get a loan for this? But, you know, people really are bankrupting themselves for these things.

[B]

I know. They do it for fashion too. They'll. They'll bankrupt themselves to, like, buy a Birkin bag for some reason. It's like. And they're like, well, it's an investment.

[A]

I gotta say, the person I'm talking about, you cannot notice a difference at all.

[B]

And that's how you know it's good work.

[A]

Financial. That's good work. Financial. Life in shambles.

[B]

But there are beauty procedures. Undetectable. Undetectable. And that's true Glamour, smart investing people.

[A]

Oh, God. All right, well, I gotta go. Dinner with my future in laws and my parents. We're all meeting. We're all meeting for dinner.

[B]

So gorgeous. We love it.

[A]

I'm off. I'm off.

[B]

Thank you for your time today. As always. Thank you for your thoughts and your time.

[A]

All right, we will.

[B]

Oh, also, should we say we were on another podcast? I guess we forgot to say that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we. This is. Is the second time we've. We've podcasted together. This week we were on the 2 Niche podcast with Elizabeth Cot. So we'll put that link in the show notes too. It was so fun.

[B]

Yeah. Check it out. It's really fun.

[A]

Emily had some great summer trend predictions that we. Actually, I thought we would maybe overlap topics more, but we overlap at all.

[B]

I know. I kept it. I siloed it. So if you want an exclusive summer trend prediction from yours truly, you have to go listens to the 2 Niche podcast. I've truly only told that prediction on that podcast. And like, to my beleaguered co workers who are sick of me saying it

[A]

out loud, there's some exclusive topics from from Law on that podcast too. It was fun.

[B]

Yeah, it was really fun. So go listen.

[A]

If this, if this hour and 40 minutes is not quite it's not enough,

[B]

doesn't satisfy, treat yourself to another hour and a half.

[A]

Until next month.

[B]

Okay. Until next month. Bye.