The Cult of Cuteness

Summary

Mess World — "The Cult of Cuteness"

Podcast: Mess World
Hosts: Jessica DeFino, Emily Kirkpatrick
Date: May 4, 2026

Overview

In this riotous, razor-sharp episode of Mess World, Jessica DeFino and Emily Kirkpatrick wade through the surreal, ever-weirder landscape of beauty, fashion, and pop culture—specifically, the rise of “cuteness” as a commodified aesthetic (and cult). From April Fool’s beauty pranks indistinguishable from reality, to logofied acne patches and the metaphysics of celebrity chickens, the duo dive into the collapse of the line between branding, fashion, and a collective loss of reason. Against a backdrop of AI mirrors, fusion influencer weddings, and the commodification of human emotions via skincare, they analyze not just what’s happening, but why, referencing CN Nye’s "Our Aesthetic Categories" and wider philosophical/cultural shifts.

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Key Discussion Points

1. April Fool’s Fake Products – When Parody is Reality

• [01:22] Jessica and Emily dissected a plethora of April Fool’s Day products from beauty brands—only to note most are indistinguishable from “real” releases.
  • Emily: "All of these pranks, quote-unquote pranks, feel like they're testing product or so... like, this is the trial run or something." (05:49)
  • Examples included protein peptide eye patches, Baja Blast body spray, and “Emotional Protection SPF 1000.”
  • Jessica: "The beauty industry is already a parody of itself in 2026... parody is not effective." (05:40)
  • Debate over the infamous Poster Girl 'C string' hoax and a campaign to make it real.

2. Trend-Spotting: Chickens and Domesticated Animal Aesthetics

• [08:12] Emily details the persistent “chicken” fashion—a flurry of feathered celebrity outfits exemplified by Chrissy Teigen, Lisa Ann Walter, and Emily Blunt.
  • "If you thought they were chicken, the things I showed you before were chicken, you haven’t seen chicken…" (08:38)
  • Discussion around animal personification vs. human thingification, the recurring motif of domestication (dogs, chickens), and synching this with current politics.

3. Joutfits: The Return of Full-Denim—But Why?

• [17:03] A resurgence of "joutfits" (jean outfits à la Canadian tuxedo) surfaces with celebs like Alondra Carthen and Ciara.
  • Emily: “It’s lazy in its badness, which I find more offensive than taking a risk and being bad.” (19:00)
  • The contradiction between 'relatable' working-class denim and the high-camp of red carpet trains.

4. Food & Body: Scented Cosmetics, Fat, and Diet Culture

• [24:27] Jessica traces the weird Venn diagram of food-inspired cosmetics and fatphobia:
  • NYX’s “Fat Oil Body Oil” (Caramel Mommy flavor) as "a calorie-free way to consume."
  • Estee Lauder’s push on monitoring sugar—and a speculative future of branded glucose monitors for “biohacking” beauty.
  • The underlying obsession: ultimate control over the body amid chaos.

5. Surveillance & Selfhood: The Swan Smart Beauty Mirror

• [41:02] The rise (and business intrigue) behind the $800 Swan AI smart mirror—exposed, literally, at a lavish influencer bachelorette party.
  • Jessica: "It's just like a self-surveillance machine, but also a regular surveillance machine." (47:15)
  • Data privacy concerns: the app’s biometric data consent page links to generic info; how much is being collected and to whose benefit?
  • Gamification of dysmorphia: "Give your reflection a compliment today"—not yourself, your reflection.
  • Discussion of "cosmeticorexia/dermarexia" as an emerging diagnosis (coined by Jessica).

6. The Cult of Cuteness – Critical Theory & Cultural Context

• [57:37] Deep dive into CN Nye’s analysis of cuteness as an aesthetic tied to capitalism, commodification, and consumer desire.
  • Emily: “She just maps cuteness onto capitalism in a way that I've genuinely never considered.” (59:25)
  • The cycle: personification of objects → thingification of people.
  • Kawaii, soft power, and the threat of the “uncanny valley.”
  • Hyper-cuteness as soft power (see: Japanese kawaii post-WWII) and the duality of “cuteness” and hidden aggression.

7. Biebercella: Branding, Image-Self, and the New Marriage

• [72:53] The Rhode (Hailey Bieber) x Justin Bieber pimple patch drop at Coachella, exploring how products are now made for the “mirror self”
  • Emphasis on products for image, not reality: “None of the marketing shows the after. The point is wearing the patch. The point is status signaling.” (78:13)
  • The commodification of a couple’s romance as a joint venture.
  • Justin’s self-reflexive “before & after” performance: "It's not clocking to them. Like, he is standing on business, you know." (90:01)

8. Messes of the Month

Kris Jenner’s Tautness

• [95:48] Media frenzy over whether her $100,000 facelift is already “slipping”—a parable of celebrity denial and the search for total facial immobility.
  • “What Kris Jenner wants from her face is like, a hundred percent immobility. So why not just paralyze yourself at that point?” (98:26)

Euphoria x Half Magic 'Beam Trap Blush'

• [101:35] Collaboration aiming to market the look of Cassie’s breakdown—“I have never, ever been happier”—as a blush.
  • Layered simulacra: the blush is “a simulacrum of simulacrum of out of control hysteria.” (104:02)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "The beauty industry is already a parody of itself in 2026... parody is not effective."
  —Jessica, 05:40

• "All of these 'pranks' feel like they're testing product... like, let's see how they react to this one."
  —Emily, 05:49

• "The personification of animals and the concurrent thingification of people... the thingification of women in particular."
  —Jessica, 14:48

• "If cuteness is there, something more sinister and nefarious, I think, is also there. Are we the chickens in the factory farm?"
  —Emily, 14:09

• "It's about status signaling through the patch. The point is the ad placement, not the after."
  —Jessica, 80:04

• "What Kris Jenner wants from her face is a hundred percent immobility… Maybe Botox should come out with a pro version that kills the nerve endings."
  —Emily, 99:39

• "Give your reflection a compliment today."
  —Jessica, on Swan AI Mirror, 50:21

• "The illusion of control in a world that grows more uncontrollable… that's what beauty is always selling."
  —Jessica, 28:07

• "She just maps cuteness onto capitalism in a way that I've never considered."
  —Emily, 59:25

• "Love as a joint capitalist venture—marriage is co-selling and creating a product together."
  —Emily, 82:18

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Essential Timestamps

• 01:22 — April Fool’s “fake” beauty products and the blurring of satire and commerce
• 08:12 — Hollywood “chicken” trend and animal–human objectification
• 17:03 — The return of head-to-toe denim (“joutfits”)
• 24:27 — Food-inspired cosmetics; fatphobia and the “Caramel Mommy” era
• 41:02 — Swan Smart Beauty Mirror, influencer weddings, and surveillance
• 57:37 — ‘Cuteness’ as an aesthetic, cult, and capitalist weapon
• 72:53 — Biebercella, Rhode pimple patches, and the capitalism of romance
• 95:48 — “Mess of the Month” — Kris Jenner’s tautness & Euphoria’s emotional blush
• 104:02 — Simulacra in beauty: makeup for hysteria

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in playful, critical dissection of the pop culture-industrial complex. Jessica and Emily blend irreverence and sharp theorizing—whether decoding the soft power of cuteness or the recursive mind-warp of influencer skincare trends. Vivid in detail, nihilistically funny, and laden with pop-academia references, "The Cult of Cuteness" both documents and satirizes an era where every feeling, feature, and malfunction are not only marketable but mandatory.

For anyone distanced from the discourse, this summary will leave you as fluently cynical—and disturbingly entertained—as any Mess World regular.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to Mess World, a podcast dedicated to discussing the highs and lows of pop culture every month. I'm Jessica Defino and I write the newsletter Flesh World.

[B]

And I'm Emily Kirkpatrick and I write I heart message.

[A]

And we're back for April.

[B]

Another pod.

[A]

Another pod. Another pod where we're like, what the hell are we going to talk about? And we having, like, 10 pages of notes because there's just.

[B]

I know it's always the pre pod panic. I feel like that I. I haven't had. It's the same when I write the newsletter. Honestly, I think, like, oh, I haven't had a thought all week. Like, what could I possibly. And then I write like 3,000 words about nonsense. But if people out there do have things they want us to talk about, you should tell us. Oh, yeah, we're available for commissioned conversations. I guess if there's some topic that you're. You're desperate to hear our thoughts about, I can't imagine what it would be.

[A]

But yeah, let us know what you want to hear. We could also do, like a mailbag episode one day where we, like, solicit questions and just do like a fun Q and A, maybe like a bonus episode or something.

[B]

I like that. That's a good one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, well, give us your questions, I guess.

[A]

Leave some questions in the comments. Okay. I want to start this review of April with April Fool's Day fake products. The joke is on us. The joke is on us.

[B]

Yeah, Quite literally. I got got. I hate April Fool's Day. It's really one of my least favorite things that America does. I don't like being tricked. I don't like being tricked. And sometimes as the trick that I got, I fell for the Poster Girl trick. For any readers of mine, I assume you fell for it too, because I presented it as though it was real, because I just thought it makes sense as a product. Basically, Poster Girl made a C string, which is a word I didn't know before, but it is the technical word for like, a G string without straps. So I've been calling them just cod pieces, which I think is also apt.

[A]

Maybe that's what C string is short for.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I didn't even question it. I was just like, well, the shape is a C. So I was just. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, it could be both.

[B]

It could totally be both. I didn't even think about that. Well, the fact of the matter is it doesn't exist, so it doesn't even matter. Poster Girl said they Made the most expensive C string in the world. And I believe them because why would I not? Like it's very up there out. That's the type of clothing and things they make anyway. They should be making that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Anyway, it was fake. Stupid.

[A]

A lot. I mean, obviously a lot was fake that could have been real. Which is kind of. My point is like April Fool's day products in the beauty space are pretty much indistinguishable from actual products that actual people are spending an actual big amount of money on throughout the year. So some examples of like joke products that I was like, where's the joke? I saw Accure do protein peptide eye patches and in fact like protein infused skincare was like a big joke across, across the board for a lot of brands. But I'm like, that's like you make things that have collagen. It like collagen is a protein. That is what we're. You're selling, right? That is what we're buying and that is what you're selling.

[B]

They're putting forth protein as though that's ridiculous and absurd. As though none of the claims they make could possibly be conflated with infusing protein into something.

[A]

Right, Exactly. The skincare brand experiment put out, you know, a picture of a fake version of their supersaturated serum kind of collab with Mountain Dew Baja Blast as a joke. It did happen. Like I looked it up and Mountain Dew did a collaboration with a brand called Blind Barber last year and they literally put out a Baja Blast body spray. So that's real and people bought it. Okay. My favorite was Beauty stat Emotional Protection SPF1000. And it's just like we have like self made secure attachment comfort serum which I have made fun of to no end, which you can buy with a copy of a book on attachment styles.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Metaphysical.

[A]

I know.

[B]

But also, didn't you say before that like rare beauty has similarly like mental health named type of like products so completely. Right. Like emotional wellness to me is part and parcel of that.

[A]

Yeah. It just doesn't read as a joke. Dyson Beauty put out a video insinuating they were developing a range for pets of pet blow dryers. We're doing that. Yeah, we're doing that. There's an entire dog beauty industry. In the past year alone we've had Lil Love Dog Welltail and Beach launch and then dude wipes put out a fake butt mask as if that was a joke. And I'm like, there's a whole product idea, no pun intended, There is a whole industry right now. Like, we have plenty of butt masks. We have whole serum, and then this is a real product that I wish was an April Fool's Day product. Olipop and the brand Good Wipes just collaborated and released flushable wipes that are flavored with Olipop soda flavors.

[B]

Flavored for whom? Your butthole. Your butthole can't taste, can it?

[A]

I mean, somebody could taste your butthole.

[B]

Oh, that's. That's right. Okay, I don't think you got the wrong way. Yes, someone could taste the Ollipop on your butthole. I guess that's a selling point.

[A]

So it's just like, you know, the beauty industry is already a parody of itself in 2026, and so parody is not effective.

[B]

It's like, right, all of these pranks, quote, unquote pranks feel. Feel like. Like they're testing product or so. You know what I mean? Like, this is the trial run or something. Like, let's see how they react to this one. And everyone's kind of like, yeah. I mean, that seems like everything else you make, and they're like, gotcha. And it's like, no, you should just. You should be making a butt mask, dude wipes. Like, that is actually a very logical extension of your weird product to begin. Like, it's no weirder than what you're doing. It's. That's very funny. I'm glad that they don't understand their own joke about themselves.

[A]

I know. Well, you know the. The April Fool's Day product that pissed me off the most because this was my idea. Glossier and Fish Wife pretended to release a collaboration of sardines to get Dewy Skin from the inside out. And I feel like we literally reached out to Fish Wife to sponsor our event. I never heard back because I have been saying I want to do Flesh World, like, fishmonger collab for. For salmon and, you know, all the omega fatty acids.

[B]

But yeah, again, it's just a good idea. Like, it's just smart brand synergy to me. I'm not sure that they're making a joke anywhere.

[A]

I feel like out of all of these, like, this is the one that could materialize into a real sort of collaboration.

[B]

I felt about Poster Girl C string, and now it's being denied to me. And also, you looped Guinness World Records into this, so they fooled me too. Like, I'm just. I'm offended. I don't like being tricked. I'm the one who does the trickery.

[A]

We need to rally all Mess World listeners to petition Poster Girl to release the C string. We need to get in their DMs. We need to be flooding their customer service email.

[B]

We've never rallied our troops before, and I feel like this is such a worthy call. Like, can we flood? I don't even know how many people listen to this podcast. I assume it's like, 10. Can all 10 of you, like, flood the comments of Poster Girl and tell them that Mess sent you? And then they need to make this product for real and it's not funny.

[A]

I think we could get it to happen. I really do.

[B]

Just. It's so irritating to me. It's such a. It's so obvious. And somebody has to make the C string. COD pieces are coming. The pornhub Awards told us last year that COD pieces are coming. And who will be the first Poster Girl could be you. Should I. Should I continue my. My other various fashion rants?

[A]

Yes, I would love to hear.

[B]

I just wanted to update everyone on the status of the chickens in Hollywood. They persist.

[A]

They really do persist.

[B]

I know this is one of those trends, too. That's like. I know I say this every time I come up with a trend, but this is a very good example of one that I am always joking at first. Like, I just think it's goofy, silly, laughy. You know something I noticed that's fun for everyone. And then it starts spiraling out of my control in a way that it becomes undeniable.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I have to admit that I've actually, like, accidentally put my finger upon a trend that is genuinely happening. And that's how I felt all month. Because the things that I was seeing out there were so explicitly chicken. I like if you thought they were chicken, the things I showed you before were chicken. You haven't seen chicken. Like, let's just start. Chrissy Teigen wore this Balenciaga look, and the skirt genuinely looks like it is made from the. The hide of bits. Big Bird.

[A]

I saw this.

[B]

It is the exact shade of Big Bird. It is feathers that look like Big Bird. Like, it looks like they murdered Big Bird and made this skirt. And I think that's. That's very strange. And then I saw Lisanne Walter from Abbott Elementary. For those who aren't familiar, she's the redhead. She went on Jimmy Kimmel in a feather jacket that, like, you. You couldn't invent a better chicken Halloween costume than this jacket. Like, it is the exact floof of a chicken. The exact coloring even. I was trying to put my finger what this color is because it's like, it's like white with a little bit of like burnt sienna maybe to it. But it's almost like when a, when a little white dog gets dirty, you know, the way they yellow and they brown. It's very much that is happening on the coat and it's, it's read so chicken. I don't know how she doesn't see it. I don't know. Everyone doesn't see it. It was so interesting.

[A]

Maybe they do. Do you think none of these people know that they're doing chicken?

[B]

I mean, I'm sure they, like, make a joke about wearing feathers, but I don't think they think I myself look like a chicken walking around a life like a human sized chicken. And then my last one for this month, of course it's ongoing, was Emily Blunt in Schiaparelli at The Devil Wears Prada 2 London premiere. And as I said in my newsletter, I just think that, like, Emily Blunt is Schiaparelli's bravest soldier. Like, they are giving her gowns that are just like monumental feats to pull. Like, nobody could pull the. Like, Zendaya couldn't pull this off. You know what I mean? They are just really tasking her with difficult gowns. And I was specifically thinking about she wore one to the Oscars in 2024 that, like, everyone on social media at the time was really fighting over because it had both. It was the shoulders, it was the raised shoulder straps that everyone thought was an accident, but, like, was obviously very intentional. And then they also had like a sequined tromp loy tighty whitey on top of the gown. Do you remember that part? I think that part got overshadowed because of the straps. But both were very challenging elements to an Oscars dress. And I just thought, like, and Schiaparelli just makes like such beautiful, I don't know, elegant, high fashion, conceptual gowns. And then they give Emily Blunt these things that I'm just like, what? Why are you doing them, my girl? Like that. My fellow Emily. Anyway, so she wore this dress that the whole bodice is like fully feathered. And honestly, even the boob part kind of looks like beakish in a way that's. That's very odd. And it comes up above the. Yeah, of course. Photo will be inserted in the video version of the podcast for those curious. Or just Google it. I mean, you'll find it. But like a big feathered circle comes up onto her decolletage, I suppose I would say. And that alone is like, that's what A silky chicken's head is shaped like. Like, that's what it looks like. They have these big, round, like, halos of feather. And it looks like her dress.

[A]

Completely correct.

[B]

And then so someone on my YouTube, I think it was on my YouTube channel, someone somewhere on the Internet said to me that all of these feathers that they think that they're just happening because it's spring and it's. So it's Easter and hence chicks. And I just want to say, like, I hear you. Like, it's. It. It is. It is florals for spring coated. But I just want to say we've lived through a lot of springs and a lot of Easters, and there were no feathers.

[A]

We don't get those.

[B]

I just want to put that up. All right. This is not a yearly occurrence. This is a very specific, this year occurrence. So I just wanted to push back on that a little bit. And then also, of course, like, there's, like, the logical side of my brain that knows how this industry works, and then there's, like, the trend side of my brain that's like, well, why, though, is it happening? Like, the logical side of my brain is like, well, of course feathers are happening because, like, all luxury brands get their materials from the same textile manufacturers, but they're all going to the same source. So that's why you'll. That's why trends happen. Honestly, like, you'll see a lot of the same colors in collections or a lot of the same materials, because that is what the big textile companies are, like, pushing that season, or, like, that's what they have excess of. So I assume what they have excess of for the last couple of collections I've shown is feathers. And so that's why we're seeing feathers everywhere. But I just feel like. I don't know, like, it's. To me, fashion is never, like, even though there's a logical business answer, it's, like, never an accident to me why certain looks are happening at certain times, even. So. So I'm like, I'm very stuck on this idea of, like, I don't know why. Why feathers right now. Like, what about the aesthetic? And I know we talked before about kind of just, like, the opulence factor of it. Like, there's. There's something kind of the. Visually, it seems to support the price that you're, like, the overly inflated price that you're paying for these things, because, like, look at their ornateness. Look at, like, the difficulty of the material, the rarity of the material, whatever. And then I don't know, today I was thinking about it and I don't. It just started making me think about yesterday. We had the book club for. For our latest book, and we're talking about cuteness. We'll get into that more in a minute. But I don't know, I was kind of thinking about the cuteness factor of being like a feathered little chicken or a little bird or something. And there's something. I don't know, it feels like something is there to me, which also implies, like, if cuteness is there, something more sinister and nefarious, I think is also there. And then I was like, are we kind of like, are we the chickens in the factory farm? You know?

[A]

Well, this kind of relates to. To my theory on the rise of dog beauty that I wrote about last year, which is the. And it actually relates to the CNI acuteness theory. But talking about, like, the personification of animals and the concurrent thingification of people creating a sort of, like, relation, like almost an equal footing sort of thing. And I guess I probably would take that further and be like, the. The thingification of women in particular.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

So I don't know why chickens, but I do think that we're seeing, like, even if you think of like, all of the, like, dog kink play or

[B]

like, costumes we've seen lately.

[A]

Sabrina Carpenter, man's best friend, of course, the Wuthering Heights scene, the scene in euphoria, like, there's a lot going with,

[B]

like, the Juno Awards.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's just like, so much happening with, like, adopting animal aesthetics.

[B]

Yeah, that's very true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And also interesting at a time where we're like, we've kind of never been further from our animal ness. You know, like, we're entering this, like, computer age and we're. We're weirdly like, relating ourselves back to animals.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, dogs and chickens, I would say, are both very related to domestication. These are two animals that have been sort of domesticated and brought into the nuclear family unit as like, pet or as like part of like, the, the food source chain, you know, so in talking about, like, the domestication or, you know, of, of women and women's role within the home and all that's going on politically there, there's some interesting, I guess, angles to consider when we're thinking about, like, domesticated animals and how we may relate to them.

[B]

Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah, I was thinking about it, I guess more from, like, I don't know, specifically that this is happening with celebrity Women being products like you are like you being the product in the way that chickens are product and thingified. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it can be all the above. I think it's all a mixed bag of.

[A]

Yes. And chickens, like as a product that produces a product.

[B]

Right, right. And multiple products, actually. Yeah. I don't know. I think. I think it's a rich text.

[A]

I know, I know. I'm ready for an overarching theory. We need an essay.

[B]

It's building. It's coming. And then I just wanted to touch down on a trend of yesteryear that I've seen troublingly reemerge this month that I also don't quite know what to make of. But again, I don't think it's a good sign, whatever it is, which is the return of the jout fit.

[A]

I'm excited about this one.

[B]

Just you like this one? Just like a real head to toe denim situation. Again, just thought that we were finally done with this because it really, like, Julia Fox really terrorized us with a joutfit for it felt like three years straight. And because she was terrorizing us with a jowlfit, it like gave permission, I feel like, to every celebrity to suddenly, like cheekily do a outfit of their own as though they were like participating, like tongue in cheek in this Julia Fox moment. But really it was just like denim. Denim overload, denim exhaustion. And so I thought by about 2023 we had really like abandoned it. But there were two outfits this month that came back in full force that. That really pissed me off, to be honest. They were quite bad. Alandria Carthen. I've never said her name out loud. I hope that's how you say her last name.

[A]

I didn't even know she had a last name.

[B]

Yeah, I've only ever heard people call her Alondra. Yeah, exactly. From Love Island. She attended the Fashion Trust Us event in a. In an area gown that was. Yeah, it was a denim evening gown with kind of a little pleated, like the way they fold fancy napkins, you know, kind of a pleated flourish at the neckline of. Of jean. And then had a long denim train. And then it was really aggressively distressed at the knees and hems, so kind of like torn away as though she had been doing like, I don't know, BMX riding or something in this gown and just kind of like got into a crash and it tore open. So I found that very strange to begin with because we just haven't seen any joutfits. Let Alone. Kind of a black tie take on one that still tries to reincorporate, like, the distressing, which I found odd. Anyway, so that was already. That stood out to me. And then more recently at The Devil Wears Prada 2 premiere in New York, we get Ciara

[A]

in.

[B]

Just a nightmare of an outfit, if you ask me. I don't know why this really offended me so badly. You know, with all the things that I see in my line of work, I'm always surprised which ones, like, get me still. And for some reason, this one got me. I think it's just, like, it's lazy in its badness, which is I think I find more offensive than, like, taking a risk and being bad, which I always think is interesting. But so she basically, she wore what I'm calling a summer Canadian tuxedo because it. It's like a jean jacket with a jean short with a jort. And then over the top of that, she wore a huge long jean duster jacket.

[A]

Oh, I saw this. I did. I saw this.

[B]

The duster is, like, unforgivable to me. It took me right back to the beginning of my career, honestly, when I was at People magazine and there was this stylist named Monica Rose. Do you remember Monica Rose? How could you not? You were at the Kardashian.

[A]

Oh, we worked with Monica Rose.

[B]

Monica Rose. And I always want to say Mimi Rose, too. Because of girls. I'm always like, Mimi Rose. I'm like, no, it's Monica Rose. Monica Rose. For those who don't know, she was kind of, like, low key. The Rachel Zoe of the 2010s for, like, very basic celebrities.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she would always put them in the same version of the outfit, which was like, duster tank top, jean short, and then like a high boot. Like a thigh high boot.

[A]

Yes. We put so many dusters on Chloe's app. She was always in a duster.

[B]

Literally just gonna say, like, if you don't know what this looks like, think of anything Khloe Kardashian's ever worn to this day. To this day, she is still dressing like Monica Rose styles her, which blows my mind. Anyway, The Ciara look was extremely Monica Rose to me, and I was like, girlfriend, it's a decade later. You got to give it. You've got to give it up. And also, this is a. This is an outfit worn to a film about fashion with a capital F. Yeah, this is a high fashion film. What are you doing? And then, I mean, and then she put this choker with it that was like Paris Hilton's 21st birthday choker. And I was like, you're killing me. You're trying. You're actively trying to hurt me. Anyway, so I got. I had two outfits this month that were troubling. And yeah, you know, I'm just, I'm mulling them over. I don't know what to think of it. It did, of course, make me think of the Vivian Westwood quote again, because it's like, especially the distressed gown, because it's like, what life? Where would that, where would that garment come from? You know what I mean? Like, it's clearly trying to tell a story of, like, as Vivian Westwood said, like a life fully lived, like, experiences had. And I was like, right, we're, we're so beyond that. Like, we're in this weird camp, kitschy place of, like, there is no experience, there is no reality even attached to a garment such as this. Like, it is pure performance of. Of everything. It's. I don't know, it's very interesting to me. And also that we would be using this material that feels to me so grounded in, like, the working class and like, this gesture towards, like, relatability while simultaneously being like the most unrelatable garment imaginable. Like, it's a jean outfit with a three foot train.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's not built for anything but a red carpet, you know?

[A]

Yeah, totally. My best friend, like, sent me a picture of her parents who are visiting her in L. A A couple weeks ago. And I was like, oh my God, they look so cute. And they're matching denim on denim, like Brittany and Justin. And she was like, oh my God, I didn't even realize. But her like 60 something parents were both wearing joutfits and they looked very cute.

[B]

I have to say a whole different breed of.

[A]

But in regards to the distressing John, he teaches high school seniors and they threw a 2016 party. And so we were looking back at pictures of us from 2016 and. And I, like, sent a picture and I was wearing the most distressed, like, tight denim skinny jeans. And I was like, oh, we can't, we can't be doing this again. We can't be teaching the kids to do this.

[B]

Well, then also, I don't know if you recall, but the way that, that distressed skinny jeans and women's wear fed into like, the amiri man, that's what I call him in my head, like the fashion brand Amiri, they make. They like exclusively make jeans that are like shredded from tip to tail. Like, they are just like barely clinging to the leg, and they're for men. And anyway, I feel like that that led straight into the. That look, which is also very Love Island, I have to say. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's. Maybe I'm overthinking it. And at the end of the day, like, Alandra is just doing like a Love island classic. That's the aesthetic of the show.

[A]

I think that might be it.

[B]

And Ciara is just like lost in the 2015s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And has never evolved her style.

[A]

Like, kind of her defining era. Yeah.

[B]

Right. I don't actually need to be concerned about this. Maybe I'm. I just. I'm just, you know, I like to raise the red flag. I like to shoot the warning shot before it's everywhere. So we all know it's coming. And also, we haven't read this chapter yet in the CNY book, but I was thinking, like, is there an element also of zaniness at play here?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Maybe of being playful with workwear.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I don't know. Or the labor. Yeah. Undermining the labor inherent in the garment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like making it playful. Black tie or elegant or so. I don't know. We haven't read the chapter, so I couldn't say.

[A]

Well, we should keep that on our radar as we read and see if we can get to the bottom.

[B]

Percolating in the back of my brain.

[A]

So I have noticed some interesting developments in the evolution of the food inspired cosmetics space and its intersections with diet culture. So last episode, I was talking about how the resurgence of diet culture and specifically the uptick in use of GLP1s for weight loss has created a very morbid demand for cadaver fat in the cosmetics industry. So we're using cadaver fat for fillers, for boob jobs, for butt lifts, because a lot of people in this elite class of people who want to modify their bodies don't have enough of their own fat. And then I noticed this month. Yeah. Nyx released a new product called Fat Oil Body Oil. And the flavor is Caramelt Mommy. Megan. Thee stallion is the face of it. And so from the product copy, it says, this formula is sweet, sensual, dripping and decadence. Drench your skin in the addictive Caramel Mommy scent with warm ribbons of melted caramel mixed with velvety layers of pistachio cream. And it's like a really indulgent, decadent description. Like the whole description.

[B]

Like ice cream.

[A]

Yes. Well, it sounds like a. Like a TGI Fridays dessert commercial or something. But it also feels like, do you know that TikTok of the diet influencer who was like eating broccoli while smelling chocolate to like trick her brain into feel like she was eating chocolate. No one viral a couple of years ago, but I feel like that is that TikTok distilled into product copy and I feel like it's. Yeah, it's like further evidence of us sublimating a desire for sweets, a desire for decadence, a desire to indulge into cosmetics. Because this is like a quote unquote safer way to consume. A calorie free way to consume. Like where snack wells were like the guilt free snack. These like fat oil, body oil, caramel mommy thing is like the guilt free fat of cosmetics or something.

[B]

Like a way to indulge without calories. Yeah, I think that's very classic. Also, there's something weird about like, yeah, turning. I guess this is beauty always, but like turning the woman into like a confection, like consumable dessert instead of a person.

[A]

Yeah, of. Of course, yeah. This has so much to do with like the inanimation of it all that objectively, I mean literal objectification. But also at the beginning of the year, I wrote a bit about how I think fat is the new ha. By which I meant, like, it's going to become so much more normalized to remove it from one area and then add more to other areas that are like millimeters away. The way we do like with like eyebrow waxing or bikini waxing, but using like hair growth supplements and whatever or tattooing your eyebrows on or something. And so I feel like this is more proof of that trend. Like as fat is demonized in the diet space, it's glorified in the cosmetic space, but only as something to add to the body via other means besides food.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can't eat fat. You gotta get the fat oil. Body oil, totally.

[B]

And I mean, I feel like we've already seen the Kardashians like pioneer that with fat grafting. It's like. And slimming down their butts and plumping up to other parts. It's like. Right. It's like fat is only good if you can control exactly where it exists on your body and the exact dimensions of it. Like, it's crazy to me also just the way all of it always just boils back down to control over kind of uncontrollable. Like it is just like a weird existential cry for raging against the death machine.

[A]

Yeah. Everything outside feels chaotic. The one thing I can reliably control

[B]

is my body is not eating. Yeah.

[A]

Related piece of news was that Estee Lauder companies released new research linking sugar consuming sugar to aging. There was a big piece in Glossy about that, I think, today or this week, which is, like, true.

[B]

Know that before.

[A]

Well, this is the thing. We. We do know that. We know that, like, most aging isn't from, like, biological years going by aging. It's from exposure to different substances in the environment, in your diet caused by stress, et cetera. Like, 80% of aging. Is that. So we knew that, but they just came out with more research that they're now using, instead of using it to deconstruct our ideas about what aging is and being like, oh, it's not actually about aging. They're using to push new topical skincare ingredients to supposedly, you know, combat the effect of sugar on skin cells. And I thought it was really interesting when Glossy reported on this. They brought up how glucose monitoring devices, which are often used by people with diabetes, are becoming more normalized for people who are into biohacking and longevity. And, yeah, they were speculating that maybe Estee Lauder companies could be getting into glue skills, glucose monitors for skin health. And to me, that's like, just a really interesting parallel because it's. That's Ozempic, like, developed for diabetics, being used more widely for aesthetics.

[B]

Yeah, but I can. I can totally see that. I mean, I was just thinking. I have to embarrass myself in admitting this, but I've recently, I've given into the. The dense beans craze.

[A]

Oh, I love a dense bean.

[B]

I. And now I know that I, too, love a dense bean, and I'm annoyed about it. It's good. I get it. But, like, a lot the. The talk around dense beans is about, like, bioregulation and stuff and, like, you know, the fiber, the protein, whatever, but they also. One of the big things that everyone who's into beans talks about is, like, insulin regulation and, like, not insulin spiking or whatever, which also feels like. I don't know, it's like, it feels like the cortisol spiking thing, too. Conversation around looks maxing where it's like, we're looking for all these new, like, bio indicators to, like, regulate and control ourselves that are like. Like, we've done as much as we can externally, so now we need to, like, dive internally to, like, regulate processes that were, like, always functioning fine without our knowledge or intervention. But, like, we're like, no, no. Like, we have to get in there and optimize it well, and with cortisol,

[A]

it's so silly because this pressure to optimize and surveil is probably spiking your cortisol chronically. Like, this is another thing for you to stress over.

[B]

Totally. Right. It's just. Right. It's just, I mean, the never ending, like creation of new things to worry about and be concerned about and think it's going wrong in your, in your body. Even though it's like, it's, it's a thing that's made to operate within itself. It's, you know, it's like when they talk about like douching and stuff.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, actually, like your vagina is like a, like an organism that's already. Right. It's self cleansing. It actually handles itself. Like that's the whole point of it. Or they talk about like detoxing the liver. It's like, well, livers detox. That's like what I do.

[A]

That's what it does.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Right.

[A]

Well, I always say, like beauty brands get their best ideas from the human body. Like that's how they know what to market. It's like, what does the body do already? Let's come up with a product to do that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, of course also all of this stuff. I mean, I know that you know this because it's a constant touchstone for you, but it really just makes me think of Jessica Simpsons.

[A]

Oh, dessert body spray. Oh my God. Yes.

[B]

It always brings me back right to that. And I'm like, so ahead of her time. Like, she was really mocked for the whipped cream and stuff, but like, man, she was right on it.

[A]

Consuming to be consumable, you know, lick it off. I, I wore that quite a lot. I wore like. There was like a creamsicle one that I had in high school that like had a little bit of glitter to it. I bought it at Claire's. I wore it all the time.

[B]

I think that I probably at that age felt that it was like too scandalous and sexual. So I was like embarrassed to buy it in front of my parents. So I didn't.

[A]

Yeah, no, I definitely didn't buy it in front of my parents. That was, that was snuck into the house.

[B]

That's a sneaky mall purchase for sure. Well, I just have one last trend I'd like to share with you. Well, it's not a trend yet. It's a trend I've been hoping for, but it's just one I've been really excited to buy, so I wanted to share it with you is basically, I've been like Pretty obsessed with this idea of inflatable attire or, like, accessories since this Rick Owens. I can't remember exactly what season it is, but they're called Porterville boots. And people might remember them because they were like big inflatable shoes that go up to the knee and they kind of turn the whole, like, bottom half of your leg into, like, a teardrop shape. I would say they feel very much like. People also might remember that summer where that, like, joke, brand mischief made the big red boots and they, like, seeded them on all these influencers, but they were like giant clown boots. They look like Ronald McDonald shoes. Like, literally they're big foam.

[A]

You know, I love that they're big

[B]

foam, oversized clown shoes. And they were putting them on all these, like, hot models and stuff as, like, that was kind of the gag of it. But then they, like, actually became really popular and people were, like, fighting over them to get them and stuff. Haven't haven't seen a single one since that summer. But people were fighting over them anyway. So I feel like the Rick Owens boots were very inspired by that. And I just. I loved the idea of a shoe that came with a bicycle pump. There's just something, like, very interesting about that to me. And it felt. I don't know. The thing with me about Rick Owens is I love the way that he always, like, plays with the shape of the human body. Like, he just, like, does not believe in letting a body be human shaped. And I think that's like, a really fun design perspective to come from. Is like, I can kind of build whatever I want and, like, turn you into whatever kind of alien I want. Who else really does that?

[A]

Right? And often I feel like by adding, rather than, like, demanding. A model.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I would say.

[B]

Yeah, Rick Owens, I would say, is very much not about subtracting, but, like, expanding exponentially. Yeah. From the body. Like, he wants to make you taller, wider, fatter, like all of the above. Like, just pumping up the shape into whatever shape he wants you to be that season, I guess. But anyway, so I've. I've been thinking about it since then. And then there's this only fans, model and influencer, Camila Araujo. I'm probably saying her name wrong as well. I don't. People always comment on me pronouncing things wrong. And I'm like, well, I'm a person who lives on the Internet. Like, I'm barely ever speaking aloud. So this is my first time on planet Earth.

[A]

Sorry, we.

[B]

Sorry. Sorry. I read so much bullshit on the Internet. That makes it sound like I'm a rudite. I'm like literally reading gossip websites all day. Sorry. Anyway, I, I became kind of obsessed with her a couple months ago because she came on my radar because I'm like a Reddit, a Reddit user now. And someone had posted, she wore this like mini dress that was snakeskin print, but it had kind of a turtle shell quality to it. I put in the newsletter, maybe you've seen it, but the neckline came up really high and it was like rock hard, like exoskeleton. And she just looked very silly walking around it. And I really liked it. And then so I've been like tapping in on her occasionally, just seeing what she's up to, fashion wise. And she recently has been wearing fully inflatable outfits. Like, like the whole garment is totally ballooned. And like, I know, it's just so complicated with her because it's like, I know that she's doing this stuff for engagement bait because it like upsets people. You know what I mean? It upsets people and they click through and then they're like, oh, she's an only fans model. Oh, I should go look at her onlyfans. Like it's a, it's a perfect little racket she has going over on Instagram. But like some of her fashions genuinely are really good and like really thought provoking. And I do feel like these inflatable costumes are one of them. Like they do remind me of the Halloween costumes, I guess, where people like dress up as sumo wrestlers or they like are riding a horse. It's very much that.

[A]

But like the top half, bottom half sort of like.

[B]

Yeah, except I do believe that hers are all made out of latex, so I think they're.

[A]

It sort of reminds me of like a kink based trend that you called at the beginning of the year, which was like maybe the opposite of this.

[B]

The opposite? Yeah, the, the suction beds.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Being like sandwiched between. It's, it's literally.

[A]

This is like reverse suction bed.

[B]

Yeah, this is a reverse suction bed garment. I'm sure there's like a real kink name for them that I don't know. But yeah, there is something kink adjacent to it because it does seem like someone's fetish or it feels like it's like latex plus inflatables plus like a feeder fetish almost. Yeah, like you're balloon. You're literally ballooning.

[A]

Well, like inflatable balloon latex makes me just think of condom Dressing.

[B]

Yeah, that too. And then again, like, for an onlyfans model, I think it's like, kind of a clever play on, like, the figure you are anyway, but you're doing it in, like, a conceptual fashion. Fashion way. And I just think it's super interesting. And I think, honestly, what. What takes these outfits that she's wearing to me from, like, these standard Halloween costumes into, like, something more high brow is honestly, she's posting these videos of her, like, Weeble wobbling down the stairs in them. And there's something about, to me, about seeing the garment in motion and, like, how laborious it is that actually makes it a more interesting and compelling aesthetic movement. Like. Like the overcoming of an obstacle or like, I don't know, kind of like the wardrobe malfunctions inherent in it or something. Like, I don't know, it seems like there's a threat to the person wearing it. There's a threat that it could get popped. There's something about seeing these things in motion. And I don't know. I was also thinking about, like, modernity is largely about, like, living a frictionless existence. And so there's something compelling about watching someone intentionally put something on that causes so much friction.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, and I was thinking about that too with, like, another trend that I've been talking about in the newsletter is, like, restricting famous people's arms so that they can't use them. And it's like. Right. What's compelling about that is, like, the creating a problem when there was no problem for people who never have any problems. Like, I think there's something really compelling about that that you can kind of get wrapped up in.

[A]

I like that a lot.

[B]

I've just really been enjoying the way that she's been laying that out and. Yeah. I don't know. Also just interesting. I think this is something I've kind of been talking about for years now. But, like, with the build a body movement with all of these kind of like shapes, shaped garments, it's always just interesting to me the way that we are quite literally expanding in fashion as we're physically shrinking.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's. It's kind of like that Emily Ratajkowski photo shoot where she's wearing.

[B]

Yes. With the jeans.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I love her in the giant pants. So funny. The Jenny Craig act where it's like,

[A]

oh, so you can make giant pants, but just only as a spectacle on a very person.

[B]

Exactly. Well, that. I mean, that was the conversation too, around a lot of the build a body stuff and a lot of the, like, Big geometric shapes is like, oh, so you could accommodate a large body, but yeah, but you just don't want it. Which is always the truth about fashion. They, they know how people are always trying to argue about like how it costs more or whatever. It's like. No, it doesn't. It literally doesn't. It's that also like fractions of a penny more maybe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I don't think you understand how much money, how much revenue brands are making compared to the cost of production.

[A]

But plus it's like if you just expanded your size range, you'd make more money.

[B]

Yes. Because everybody is outside of the size range that you currently. Literally all Americans are outside of the size range you currently offer. So yeah, they make a ton more money. It's very silly, terrible excuse. Oh, yeah. And also, just my last thing about the blow up inflatable fashion is I was also just thinking, like, maybe this is how I finally get my temporal fashions on the red carpet. Because I could see like if you had an inflatable dress that was slowly leaking as you walk down the red carpet and deflating and like it's collapsing in on you. And I was thinking about the way bouncy castles collapse in on the people inside and like, I don't know, the panic, the stress, the like chaos that ensues and it's like, I think that could be very captivating.

[A]

Yes. Oh, I hope it happens.

[B]

Well, I'm, I'm always hoping. Fingers crossed.

[A]

You brought this up to me and I wasn't going to talk about it, but then I was like, okay, we need to talk about it. The Swan Mirror sponsored bachelorette party. I had heard like rumblings of this, but I guess it's gotten like huge. A lot of people are talking about this bachelorette party.

[B]

Well, because I think that a lot of people, the level of money, yeah, I think got a lot of people's attention. Like the private jet and the private yacht of it all for this random influencer. I think got a lot of people's attention. And then I think a lot of people had never heard of Swan Beauty before. So additionally, they were kind of like, what is this brand? And like, why does it have like crazy money to splash out on this kind of nothing event?

[A]

Right. So I've written a little bit about Swan Beauty before. It's essentially an AI smart mirror. It costs $795. Pretty creepy why people are talking about them now. Is that smart? I'm not smart. I was gonna say smart. Water. Smart Water. Swan Beauty. Swan Mirror Swan Beauty. Swan Beauty. Swan Beauty sponsored a bachelorette party for the influencer Bridget Felong, who goes by the handle Acquired Style. She also owns a clothing brand with her sister called Fifi. And yeah, Swan sponsored her bachelorette party in St. Barts and flew her and 16 guests there in a private jet. So a lot of people were like, how can this new company, because Swan just launched in like July, afford a private jet and a St. Bart's villa and all the swag? Because every attendee got their own like $800 mirror too. So the founder, I know the founder is this woman, Colby Mitchell. The company is owned by Mitchell family office, which is owned by Mark Mitchell, who is Colby's husband. This brand, Mitchell family office also acquired Cost Bar, which is a beauty retailer, so that they could from Cost Bar through the Swan mirror. So they're making money that way too. But the Mitchell family office's bread and butter is that it invests in pharma, in hospice care, in psychiatric care. It's got like a lot of ties to the medical industry. And Swan Beauty is just like this woman's passion project. I guess. The family is so wealthy that the private jet used for the bachelorette party is their own family private jet. So they didn't have to rent a private jet, they just had a private jet.

[B]

They're saving money actually.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. So Glossy reported on this a little bit and they wrote that although rumors flew on social media about the funding the brand had secured, one reel referenced a 12 and a half million dollar investment. Mitchell confirmed that she self funded the company and said two and a half million was definitely not enough to fund the company. So it's. So it's taken a lot more to get Swann going, but. So the founder of Swann connected with this influencer with acquired style through a brand building company that they both work with called the LEO Group. And they were sort of like set up at a dinner to talk about their brands and like women supporting women and how they could connect, you know, and then this like sponsored bachelorette party

[B]

came along organically, naturally.

[A]

They literally use the word like, oh, this is such an organic natural partnership.

[B]

It's organic because their brand agency organically set them up for dinner so they could organically plan a Spawn Con event together. I don't know what you don't understand.

[A]

You know, I just also find it hard to believe that like people want to use this mirror. Like I don't when I think of what I want technology to do, having a smart mirror with AI and augmented Reality features is not something that I care about.

[B]

Like you said, it just seems like it's this woman's like, vanity project that like, she comes from like this big pharma money family. So they're like, cool. Have your like, cute little AI mirror. Like, we can lose money on that. Like, again, what is $3 million a lot into it?

[A]

So here is what I think they have a lot.

[B]

You know what I have again? I think that they can just like pump money into this thing that's like, like kind of a flop. And then like peg some influencers to it and they're like, see, people like it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then maybe they sell a couple. I don't know. With all these kind of AI tech mirrors, I'm just like, are these people who want this? You know, and there's that fitness one too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're just like, who. Who's using this? Like, who are these people? I don't know any. I've never met anyone who has a smart mirror like this. I'm.

[A]

No, me either.

[B]

I'm very curious about their market share.

[A]

The. The, like. I don't know if it's exactly spawn con or advertorials or just seeding product to editors at different beauty platforms, but I would say about like a month or two ago, there was a big wave of swan beauty mirror reviews everywhere on like Coveteur, on Byrdie, Zo Report, whatever. And all of the reviews were very positive from these editors.

[B]

Well, they were gifted, so they better give.

[A]

Exactly. But okay, so what the mirror does, it does AI skin scanning. So it evaluates your skin for wrinkles, texture, oil, sunspots, hyperpigmentation, acne, and it gives you a score out of a hundred.

[B]

Great. Gotta gamify it.

[A]

It's got a smart makeup artist, so it uses augmented reality to overlay tutorials directly onto your reflection in the mirror. And it tells you how to apply makeup, like based on your specific bone structure. So, you know, eugenics is programmed into the system and then there's like a shoppable marketplace. So it'll promote products that tells you you need based on your reflection. And you can just buy them right through the mirror. Yeah, well, it's the same company that owns.

[B]

Right, right, them. Right.

[A]

And then it also has a content studio feature, so it has lighting and recording capability so that you can film like really high quality. Get ready with me's in the smart mirror.

[B]

Oh, I. I assume. I mean, I feel like you're probably also signing some weird contract that's like we can kind of film you at any time and we can use that footage for anything we want.

[A]

So here is what I want to say about that. One of the reasons that I hate this is because it's just like a self surveillance machine, but also just a regular surveillance machine. It collects your data through your images. It films you getting biometric, like feedback from your skin. Every time you scan your skin, it's getting like your face. So I actually signed up for the app today because not only does the does Swann have the mirror, the mirror hooks up to an app and you can use the app separately.

[B]

And let me guess, the app has a subscription.

[A]

Yeah, 9.99amonth.

[B]

Of course, it's the peloton model and

[A]

I signed up, baby. So when you sign up for links to like in the terms of use thing, it clicks a link to the biometric data and use consent page for you to click through and read through before you consent and sign up. But when you click on biometric data, use and consent, it links out to the generic about page and has no information about how that data is used and who it is shared with. I like took screenshots of it because I was so shocked. I know. So who knows where all this data.

[B]

Wow. Because like, I always forget about like the biometric data of it all. Like, my first impulse is always like, if something has a camera, like that footage is being used for something and sold to something nefarious. You know what I mean? Like the same way ring cameras, it's like. Right. Hops in most states are like allowed to tap into ring cameras and just like, like watch through them, even if there's not like a crime currently happening in front of them. And so I always just assume, like, if you have a camera, someone's going to tap into it and watch you and then sell that. But. Right. The biometric data of it all, it's like, it's. It also, I don't know, it seems like a logical extent. Like they got us here because we already feel this way about our data on the Internet. Like actually our data is like the most incredibly valuable thing that we have. And like in America, for some reason we've just decided that like company, it's not ours, we don't own it. Like companies own it and they're welcome to just collect it and sell it at will. Which is like, obviously the EU has all these laws against that now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it should be your own. But it's like, right. So because we already have that mindset, I don't know, it just makes so much sense to me that also with, like, our own bodies, we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, you can have that data. Like, what? What the hell are you going to do with it?

[A]

Right? We're just so used to it. This is why I care.

[B]

Yeah. What am I going to do with it? Why would I want to protect.

[A]

Every app that we are on is collecting our data, and it just doesn't seem that scary anymore. But it is. I just feel like it's like, of course our deranged dysmorphic dystopia has birthed AI mirrors that people are actually using. You get messages on the screen, it'll say, like, give yourself. No, it doesn't even say give yourself. I misspoke. It says, give your reflection a compliment today.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That's so interesting that it's divorcing your reflection from you as a person.

[A]

I know. Which is actually, like, good, I think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, well, this is an altered thing that we've made up that has nothing to do with you. So, like, compliment this fake version of you we've created in your reflection.

[A]

You know, it's very healthier. It's much healthier. Although a lot of a lot about this mirror is not healthy at all.

[B]

I mean, if you're using the mirror, it's not good, but if you have to be using the mirror.

[A]

The thing that I'm, like, most intrigued by is, you know, faceless AI chatbots. We already have some data that they trigger, you know, what researchers are calling AI psychosis by mirroring your language back to you. And I'm just like, what are the consequences of turning the AI into a literal mirror that mirrors you and talks to you? Like, I just wonder what this is going to do to us. It feels like a mental breakdown waiting

[B]

to happen, for sure. And also, I imagine a lot of them. I don't know if there's, like, a clinical word for this. I don't know. I'm just thinking about, like, orthorexia. Like, there's just, like, this inability to ever be as perfect or as clean or as precise. I guess it's this, like, digital doppelganger version of yourself. Seems like psychosis.

[A]

There is research starting for a clinical term. They're calling it cosmeticorexia or dermarexia in the literature, and dermarexia I coined. So they just started studying this year based on articles that came out around dermarexia, which I had been writing about for years. So we're starting to get some data on this as an actual, like mental health.

[B]

You need to be bragging about that. That's fucking crazy.

[A]

Well, I do want to. I do want to brag about it more, but I got so much hate in the beauty industry for.

[B]

You know, you coined a word.

[A]

I know, but it was like normal. This is girlhood. This is girlhood in here. What's the word that I'm trying to think of? Like, not stigmatizing, but like diagnosing normal behavior. But.

[B]

Oh, pathologizing.

[A]

Pathologizing girlhood. But no, that's not what I'm.

[B]

You're literally not. And that's. This isn't about girlhood. This is about technologies like intervention in our self conception and like the mental problems that it creates. I think that's like very obviously legitimate.

[A]

Yeah. So they're studying it. They're studying it. Thank you. Luckily, I don't care about this stuff, but if I did, I would 100% have a mental breakdown. Because let me tell you, I did a skin scan on the Swan app of myself. I wanted to see what it was going to. I got a 90 out of 100, which I was like, oh, that's. That's pretty good. But then it overlays your image with like little dots and hot spot areas and you cycle through where it highlights your hyperpigmentation, your acne, texture issues, sunspots and wrinkles. Like, maybe I can pull it up and show you on here, but I.

[B]

I want to put my face through it now.

[A]

It's also just like, I don't want to get raped. Terrible photo of me in my leopard print head thing after the shower. But like here it's. Those are my hyperpigmentation areas.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Where's the other one? There's like texture, hot spots. I don't know if you can see it.

[B]

I can see it.

[A]

Acne just like.

[B]

And this is on a 90.

[A]

This is on a 90. So I don't know if it's like vanity scoring or what, but I'm like, if I cared about those things. I think it's like a mental breakdown waiting to happen to be like, oh, this AI just put a green dot over every area of my face that has a problem and it's actually my whole face.

[B]

And also just like, I think inherently the putting a number on it, it's like, oh, so you're saying I could be 10 points higher and then this obsession with getting more points and building it up. Right. I can see how that would become an endless feedback loop. Also is this not like exactly the same idea that Deepak Chopra is doing.

[A]

Right. It sounds very similar. It's just more beauty focused than like health and wellness focused. And there's not like mental health aspects to it. But yeah, I think it's all part of the same sort of like AI dystopia that's.

[B]

They want us to have an AI doppelganger so bad.

[A]

So bad. And it like, what if their saddest is. I know the saddest thing to me is that this seems to really have worked for Swan. The brand's total impressions across TikTok and Instagram after this bachelorette party surged 3,800% to 19.9 million views. In the past week. Engagement surged 11,000%. They earned 1.7 million in earned media. 2,700% increase in Google search traffic. 4,000% increase in app downloads and subscription signups rose 1900%.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

They captured a lot of people. And I really hope that this is not like the new thing that everyone's going to be getting.

[B]

That's very wild. But also, can I just say, when you're. When zero people are googling you, it's easy to have a 1900% growth or whatever completely.

[A]

But they did have a press run a couple months ago, so who knows? Who knows?

[B]

It's just a very interesting little corner of the influencer world. A new development that was happening and so I had to. To ask your opinion on it.

[A]

Yeah. I think a lot of people are also upset about, like, the commodification of wedding stuff and just like a brand sponsoring your. Your wedding.

[B]

Is that not just weddings? Like, what?

[A]

I don't care. Like, that doesn't bother me. I'm planning a wedding right now and I'm like, maybe I can buy some coverage in order to get a discount on the venue.

[B]

You know, Fish wife. Fish wife. It's time to collab.

[A]

Wedding favorite.

[B]

What is. What is. What do they expect from an influencer? Also, like, is that not kind of their whole thing? Commodifying every event and getting a brand sponsor to pay for it? Like, I thought that was just kind of the. The thing.

[A]

Yeah. Doesn't bother me any more than regular beauty influencer stuff.

[B]

I assume that any, any time I'm ever seeing a brand logo or hearing mention of a specific product, someone is getting paid to. To sell it to me. Me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't assume anything is organic or anything is happening naturally anymore on the Internet, because it isn't. Nope. I mean, just like a TikTok except

[A]

for the meeting between Acquired Style and Colby Mitchell. That was organic.

[B]

Well, that was organic. That was natural. That's the one. The true thing left in this world. Can an influencer sit down with a brand founder and have a nice meal? Huh?

[A]

Yeah. Can't women support women?

[B]

That's right. The last thing that I just want to talk about before we move on is I just thought it might be interesting to have a little talk about cuteness.

[A]

Yeah. We had a really fun book club the other day. We at the Lowbrow Book Club, which if you aren't signed up, Emily and I do a book club together once a month. We pick a new book. We get together at the end of the month on Zoom and discuss it with readers. And it's really fun. Everyone's so smart and cool. But we read our aesthetic categories by C.N. nye. Oh, yeah, this month, and we just had our discussion. We focused on her chapter on cuteness.

[B]

And I just. I know that it's like a text that you constantly cite in your work, but this was my first time reading it, and it really. I don't know, she rocked my world. She is such an interesting perspective. I've genuinely. It's funny because as someone who, like, my whole business is aesthetics, I really haven't liked, like, thought very much, philosophically, I guess, about the nature of aesthetics and how they're used and that, like, I don't know, that they could be leveraging so many different things and ideas beyond simply the aesthetic nature of them, I guess, was kind of surprising to me.

[A]

I know. No, I know what you mean. And cuteness in particular, for nigh, is a product of consumerism and capitalism and consumer culture, commodification, production, and circulation. And it's really interesting to see how you can't really separate cuteness, the cute object, from production commodification.

[B]

Yeah. And she just maps cuteness onto capitalism in a way that I've genuinely never considered. And also while I was reading, I kept thinking this was like, the craziest thing to me about our book club is that, like, you and I don't have some, like, grand master plan of, like, which books we're reading and why, and, like, how they relate to each other where it's truly just vibes based and, like, oh, like, I've always wanted to read that. We should read that. And then I just keep finding with, like, each book that we read that they are building on each other in this, like, really insane way. And while I was reading the cuteness chapter, where she's talking about kind of the Industrial Revolution and the rise of capitalism creating this. This weak aesthetic category of cute as a means of, like, selling things. I'm thinking about, well, both Angela Davis, which we've talked about before, of, like, Angela Davis mapping similarly onto the Industrial Revolution, like the rise of, like, civil rights as well as women's rights, and, like, how those are all intermingled in this moment. And then I was also thinking about Naomi Klein and Doppelganger and, like, the way that. That these cute figures often stand in as doppelgangers for ourselves. Both, like, both in our obsession, like, wanting to be them and in, like, our obsession with wanting to destroy them. Both feels like projections of, like, feelings about self onto the object in a crazy way. And even it tracks onto our book Cultish because, like, cute, as we talked about in the book club, like, the category of cute, like, a cute object elicits from the viewer, like, a certain mode of speech, like, your speech becomes cute ified. And in Cultish, we learned that, like, that is the makings. Like. Like level one for starting a cult is you start creating its own kind of, like, sub language. And I was just like, wow, cute is a cult.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God, the cult of cuteness. Oh, my God. We should email Amanda and be like, let's do a podcast episode.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Cult of Cute. I was actually slightly removed from cuteness. I was just thinking, like, how relevant our random book picks from the past couple of months have been to current events. So we read Females by Andrea Long Chu, which has a lot in it about bimboism. And then Kristi Gnome's husband, the big bimbo, quote, unquote, scandal. I thought, like, that timing was pretty wild. And then I don't.

[B]

I'm also read. I'm also like, actually, I'm thinking. I've been thinking about writing this essay. I'll probably write it hopefully this week for Interview, where just weirdly, I was, like, connecting the dots between all these different, like, manosphere movements, because we just interviewed. Maybe you don't know this guy, but there's this guy on TikTok called Anwar White, and he recently coined this phrase, catching print. Have you heard of this? No, It's. It's apparently, according to him, like, this is something in the queer community that's, like, always been happening. And he just, like, put a name to it and, like, made a structure for how you do it. But catching print is basically like looking at a man's crotch and knowing exactly how big his dick is. Oh, yes.

[A]

Okay, yes.

[B]

And so a lot of the pushback on catching print is that it's objectification of men. Like, and men are getting treated the way women have always been treated about their breast size. And so I was thinking about that, and then I was just, like, thinking about all the other manosphere movements we've talked about and kind of like, connecting this dot of, like. Right. So, like, men are experience objectification of their genitals in a way women have, like, always experienced and are being treated that way. And then we have, like, clavicular and look smacking, obviously, and kind of like this very submissive, traditionally feminine role that men are being put on. And then I was thinking about the manosphere and, like, Andrew Tate. And this, like, disgust with women is like. Like, women are only to fuck, but, like, their vaginas are disgusting. That's a direct quote. And. And, like, you just fuck them and you want to go back to your bros, because that's who you really have these, like, deep emotional bonds with. And I don't know, I was just connecting it all to, like, I don't know. I think my title or, like, my thesis is basically, like, Men are the New Women. Like, they're experiencing all these, like, traditional female roles and using. Using females, the book as, like, a lens through which to see it all. I don't know.

[A]

That's exactly why I wanted to read Females. It was like, looks maxers 100%. I feel, like, female completely. It, like, gets a new angle on the phenomenon that hasn't really been covered that much yet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I really want to read that. I don't know. Did you read the Actor from the Pit? Supriya Ganesh wrote an essay for Vulture, My Strange Dysphoria. And they wrote about the phenomenon of transvestigation gaining steam and how it's affecting women of color more than white women because they're, like, masculinized in the culture. And I was like, this is Women, Race and Class by Angela Davis.

[B]

All of this.

[A]

So many, like, pop culture moments happening right now just happen to align with our reading picks. And it's felt so good to be like, ah, yes, I know. I know what this is about.

[B]

Yes. And also, I mean, like, obviously I appreciate Angela Davis so much too. Cause it's like, she's making those connections, and she's like, it's not an accident. You know what I mean? Which I just appreciate that historical perspective of, like. No. That trend that you're noticing that's predominantly happening to, like, women of color. She's like, right. That's intentional. That comes from slavery. Like, here you go. Like, here's the exact pinpoint moment I can point to of, like, why this ideology started, and you can see how it warped through time and, like, adapted to, like, the. The age we're living in. But it's the exact same racism from slavery all over again. Like, they're not real women because they need to work with the men in the field, you know, and they're not real women because they're being raped. And so you have to, like, as we talk about in cuteness, like, the thingification, it's like you're removing the humanity from them in order to, like, treat them as objects.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. I think cuteness is strangely relevant right now, too. I know in our group, we talked a lot about, like, Labubus and Trad Wives. There's, like, a connection there. I was thinking a ton about the Starface mascot and I guess just pimple patches in general as an aesthetic of cuteness. But, yeah, there's just, like, a lot relevant to the cute aesthetic right now, or even.

[B]

It just occurred to me. Hold on. Let me just Google this to make sure I'm saying the right. Yes. I just occurred to me. It's gremlins. Gremlins are, like, the perfect cute.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Because right at nighttime, or they get wet, and then suddenly they're like these evil demon creatures. But, like, they're. They. And they want you to be their mommy, and they want you to take care of them. And, like, that is the perfect, I feel like, cuteness archetype.

[A]

Yes. There's a great part in the cuteness chapter of our aesthetic categories where Nye talks a little bit about the kawaii aesthetic in Japan and talks about how similar the word is to, I think kawai, which means scary, and uses that to kind of show the duality of cuteness and aggression. Like how violence or something scary is always part of the cute object. And Gremlins is such a good example of that.

[B]

Yes. And also that, like, it's, like, part of the cuteness is, like, the sublimation of that terror. You know what I mean? Like, you knowing that it's right behind the veil of this sweet, innocent thing, and it could come out, but it's not bringing that out because it loves you or something like that is also part of the dynamic. And, yeah, I mean, I talked about this at length in the book club meeting, but the kawaii section, to me, was revolutionary. She just. Basically, she connects kawhi and its Proliferation in Japan as, like, a response to World War II and, like, and the atomic bombs and Japan kind of no longer being this world power in, like, quite an obvious, like, physical way. And so the response to that being, like, okay, like, we create this aesthetic of cute and, like, kind of diminish ourselves with. Sublimate ourselves in a way to these other, like, world powers. But actually, the cuteness of Kawhi ends up being a soft power that, like, culturally has taken over the world. Like, everything is kawaii now. And that too being like. The duality of cute is, like, it seems like this innocent nothingness, and it's actually, like, nefariously seeping into every, like, nook and cranity of society. Like, as Nye also suggests that cuteness, right, is closely related with consumption. Both, like, it consuming us, us consuming them. And in that has a very powerful link to capitalism. And. Yeah, I think I forgot where I was going with that.

[A]

Well, I think one of my favorite things about this chapter was the talk about personification of objects and the thingification of people, which we were talking about a little bit earlier with, like, the dog thing and the chicken thing. But, yeah, CNAI has, like, this really excellent explanation for. As we sort of anthropomorphize objects more, we're almost bringing them closer into equal status with humans, and there ends up being this thingification of the person where we want to become more like the object. And part of the cute aesthetic is an identification wanting to be just like the cute object or wanting the cute object to be just like us.

[B]

Hence, chickens.

[A]

Hence chickens. Hence chickens.

[B]

But also, we were just saying in book club, it's like, isn't. I don't know, it's funny, this thingification. And meanwhile, we have, like. So basically, they're saying that if. If you don't kind of mitigate the thing with the cuteness, it becomes uncanny valley. Like, it becomes too human. Like, which creeps us out because then we think that there isn't this power differential between ourselves and the object. Like, suddenly we're on equal playing field, and that's bad. And we don't like that. And I don't know, in book club, we were just talking about, like, isn't that funny? Because AI, they're, like, not trying to do anything to make it not uncanny valley. Like, they're not even putting this guise of cuteness over it to make us feel more comfortable with it. They're just, like, full onslaught. Like, the horror of, like, a humanoid interacting with you.

[A]

Yes, the uncanny horror Is like part. Part of it. But we're going to be reading next month the chapter of our aesthetic, our aesthetic categories on the zany aesthetic, which is so fun and so mess. Like, Emily, I can't wait for you to.

[B]

I know. I'm so excited for you. You should see in the introduction, because we also read the introduction as well as the cute chapter for this month. And you should see my notes in the introduct time zany is mentioned. I'm like underlining and highlighting. I'm like, this is me. Like, this is my part.

[A]

Yes, 100%. I think she described zany as an aesthetic where work and play collapse into each other. And like this line between labor and leisure are really blurred. And there's a lot beauty wise there too.

[B]

Totally. And like I was saying in book club, I just think, like, that is kind of the definition of celebrity fashion, like obfuscating the. The intense labor that goes into all of it and making it seem, like, playful and joyous in this way that's like actually very bleak and dark.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I just, I'm very excited.

[A]

I wonder. I wonder if Coachella aesthetic could be considered an offshoot of zany labor and leisure. Recording the content, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I'm also curious. I don't. I mean, we haven't read the chapter, so I don't know. But I'm curious if she gets into kind of like, like where camp exists within the zany universe or like pastiche or like kitsch and stuff. Because that to me feels like within zany, but I don't know. Slightly.

[A]

Yeah, I know she writes a bunch about like, almost like jesters. Like the zany. I know, exactly. I didn't know this, but in like, I don't know, Renaissance period, maybe before a zany was kind of like a jester, it was like this court person where you could be. It was your job to be a little crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I think there's going to be some Pagliacci core references in there too.

[B]

Amazing. I'm really looking forward to it. Anyway, so we all say that. Just to say if you want to read with us, get into it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Plenty of time.

[A]

Book club reading is not too long.

[B]

I will say it's. It can be dense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And tough to parse at times, but it's not long and you can do it. And the trick that I learned, honestly, again, why I'm so glad we read Simulacrum and Simulation first, is because the reader, our group, taught me the best trick for reading dense Text which is read aloud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it really. Reading. Reading this book aloud to myself has really helped so much me understand what the hell I'm reading.

[A]

I gotta try that.

[B]

It's so helpful. It's so weird. I think it just, like, forces your brain to focus.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you, like, can't have, like, a rogue thought while you're reading this. There is no room for rogue thoughts. Like, you better be locked in.

[A]

You gotta be paying attention. Yeah. I'm excited. I think it's gonna be a good. Another good month at the lowbrow book club. But should we move on to our big discussion of the day, which is Biebercella.

[B]

Biebermania.

[A]

Biebermania at Biebercella. I don't really care about Coachell. I've never, like, paid much attention and I don't have much, much thought on the performance. No. I've been a stagecoach once.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Courtesy of Botox. Botox cosmetic sent me on a press trip to stage.

[B]

Disclose that you're compromised.

[A]

I've written about it so much. Yeah. I wrote so many articles using stuff that I got from Botox on that trip, and I think that they were, like, thanks to the press. Even though every article I wrote was, I think, not positive.

[B]

I mean, I'm sure Botox does not care.

[A]

I mean, this is back in, like, 2018. These were all, like, fashionist stuff.

[B]

I feel like Botox probably thinks if people are talking, it's good. I mean, like, yeah, I don't think they care.

[A]

Have you been to Coachella?

[B]

I have, yeah. I went. I went once with Reebok.

[A]

Oh, okay. Look at us. Look at us at our little sponsored trip.

[B]

A nightmare. I hated it. You can only imagine, the whole time I was there too, I just kept thinking. I was like, you are doing this in, like, the bougiest way possible. You know what I mean? Like, Reebok splashed the hell out. Like, we had private buses to and from the event. We were, like, in the VIP section or whatever. They gave us credit cards to get food. Like, like, you know, we had a little villa we were, like, staying in or whatever. And I was like, this is literally the fanciest way to possibly do this event. And I hate every living moment of it. I was like, it's not for you, girl. Like, just give up the idea of Coachella. Like, it's not a good fit. But it was interesting. I mean, it was informative. It does feel like I'm happy to have seen what's happened, experienced it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I just think knowing what it's like on the ground is very different than the photos you see of it. It. It's like a very punishing weekend is what, how I would describe it. Yeah, I think that's like everything about it, because it's like it's even in a place that feels like humans aren't supposed to be there. You know what I mean? Like, it's just too hot. It's too hot. It's too windy. So it's also dusty as hell. And then, I don't know. And then everything costs a million dollars. A bottle of water is $30. That's not even a joke.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So it's like everything about to me is like, we're not supposed to be here doing this. Nobody wants us here. I could have complained about Coachella for a million years, but it's also insanely large. So you're just like walking across a field for 50 years and you're not even getting anywhere. And then you'll realize you're walking in the wrong direction because the map is very confusing. And so you're like, great, I've been walking for 20 minutes in the wrong direction towards the wrong stage. Let me try.

[A]

Good thing you had your Reeboks on.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thank God for my Reeboks. Anyway, it was very stupid.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So the reason I'm so intrigued this year is of course, because Hailey Bieber and her beauty brand Rhode collaborated with headliner and husband Justin Bieber to put out pimple patches. And Rhode has been teasing these pimple patches for a long time. And after seeing Justin's set where he basically like streamed old YouTube videos of him as a child and like sang a long to them, I was like, oh, this is really interesting because I've talked so much about how Hailey Bieber and Rhode are successful not because they make products for the real world, but because they make products for the mirror world. And it's all about image creation and experiencing this self through imagery. So with road, like I would say, you know, the. The mirror self or the image self that I'm talking about is the version of you that you see in like the front facing camera or in an image. It's the objectified self, like an image is an object. So it's like a flattened two dimensional photograph or online avatar. And as the world becomes more virtual and more visual, more people start to identify with their online avatars or their image selves more than their real selves. Saying, I feel most like myself online. And Rhode is So good at catering to that image person. It makes products to be photographed to appear in a customer selfie. Like the branded phone cases meant to be taking selfies that hold the lip gloss tube. They make mirror clings branded under eye masks. And now the pimple patches. So these, like, are primo selfie material. You're living through images. The pimple patches are a product for image, not for person.

[B]

It's funny, too, because it just feels like. I mean, from a fashion person's perspective. It also just feels like beauty is going through, like, its Logomania era.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Like they just finally figured out a way to, like, get the logo straight up on your face instead of on

[A]

the bottom as ad space, as a billboard.

[B]

It's just, like, such a fashion idea. It's very funny.

[A]

Well, even more of a fashion idea, Rhode is categorizing their pimple patches as spotwear. So it's like talking about it as if it is sort of a clothing category.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Isn't that wild?

[B]

That is wild.

[A]

I think the other thing that really struck me about this and, like, the digital doppelganger of it all, is that none of the marketing for these pimple patches, none of the product pages, none of, like, the Instagrams promoting it, show the after of the product. Like, after it says these pimple patches are supposed to make your acne spots smaller, flatter, and less red. All of the pro promo pics are in progress, pics of people wearing the patches, and you never see an example of what it might do.

[B]

I wonder if it's just because it's, like, too regulated. Like, the. Like, legally, like, the before and after or, like, making false claims or something, or, like, like, I don't think so.

[A]

I think, like, everyone. Everyone does that. I mean, that's like, proactive 101.

[B]

I guess so. But I wonder if, like, the results. I mean, I guess what I'm wondering is, like, proactive probably actually does produce those results. I'm wondering if her product doesn't actually produce the results. So they can't.

[A]

The thing is, I don't think they're not effective. Like, hydrocolloid.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Does what they say it does. Like, whether that's, like, a great thing for your skin, I think is up for debate. Sure. But, like, in terms of, like, doing what it says it does, like, I trust that these patches probably do. It's like a pretty, like, hydrocolloid dressings are very, like, old and well known in. In medical settings. So I feel like they probably do do what they. Which Is like, you know, how. How often do I say that? Not very. But I think that we're shifting away from a before and after into a before and mid. Or like, before and in progress. Like, you're always going to point. The point is wearing the patch. The point is status signaling through the patch. Like, the point is the ad placement not.

[B]

But also like, after implies that, like, there's a solution. Like, you actually can resolve this. And like, for beauty, it's like, there can never be a resolution because then you would stop buying the product. So, like, it makes sense to me to eliminate the after photos because it's like, well, there is no after. The after is you wearing this.

[A]

You just keep buying this forever and ever. And I really suspect. I really suspect a lot of people are putting these on non existing.

[B]

No, they are.

[A]

This is not.

[B]

I know they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, even. I'll just say anecdotally, my editorial assistant was telling me that with Starface that she doesn't wear the Starface patch when she has a pimple. She uses, like, the real medical, like hydro. What are. What is the word?

[A]

Yeah, hydrocolloid. Hydrocolloid.

[B]

Hydrocolloid. And then she said that she only uses the Starface patches once. It's like healing just to, like, hide it.

[A]

It. That's so fascinating.

[B]

But she's using it aesthetically just as, like, this looks cool and cute and that way it just hides the ugliness of the healing pit bull. But she's not using them for, like, the medical purpose of, like, actually fixing the p. I don't know. I just thought that was so interesting. And then she has two separate kinds that she's using. Like, this has this purpose. This has a necessity.

[A]

This is the effective one. This is like the pretty one.

[B]

Yeah. And I was like, that's really actually very interesting. And I'm sure that's how most people are using them.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because it's about the ones

[B]

that work are for privacy and the ones that don't work are for public.

[A]

For image creation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then. Yeah, I just thought that was so interesting in light of, like, Justin Bieber releasing this product with his wife before hitting the stage. And the product is very much about the mirror self or the image self.

[B]

And then his whole show, famously proactive spokesperson Justin Bieber.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wow. And if you think about it, his show really was a before and after performance. Wow.

[B]

Yes. But also not after because he's in progress and he continues to put out music and continues to be an artist. So it's like a retrospective to this point, but implying that it doesn't end here. Totally. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I just think that it was a spectacle of the image self for husband and wife.

[B]

I love that. And also as I wrote, I love the idea of love as a joint capitalist venture.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like marriage is co selling and creating a product together. I think that's really cool.

[A]

It's more romantic than that.

[B]

Yes. It's very modern. Also, I mean, the funny thing about me and Justin Bieber is I've accidentally become a fan over the course of my life. I never intended to be a Belieber and now here I find myself one. Yes. And I was thinking, I literally when we were prepping the segment, I was like thinking back on like, when did this happen to you? Like, when did you get so into Bieber? Because I wasn't, I always felt like I wasn't young enough for him. When he came out, like he felt a little babyish to me and I just felt creepy to be like into his music and stuff as like someone who's like, I don't even know, 10 years older than him. Yeah. So I wasn't into it at first. And then I feel like what got me is kind of around, well, the bad boy behavior. When he was really having a public ra, I started to be interested. Like the peeing and mop buckets and stuff. I was tapping in on that gossip. And then I think because I was tapping in on that gossip, I got really into his fashion. And Carla Welch, who, for those who don't know, is a very, very high profile celebrity stylist, was working with him at the time and them together, I don't know, it just was like really spoke to this moment in fashion and was really like, I, I mean, people surely know this about me, but I love a celebrity who has their own specific perspective on fashion. And it's not necessarily good, but it is so them that I. It's like undeniable. Which is Kristen Stewart, of course, is who I'm thinking of. But I would say that Justin Bieber is very much my male Kristen Stewart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he's doing something very similar where it's like that is undeniably like him, him. Like when he wears outfits, I'm like, yeah, that's.

[A]

I love your writing on his princess pants.

[B]

Oh, I love his princess pants. For those who don't know, he's been wearing like, I think I've talked about on the pod even he's been wearing insanely long pants. Just, like, comical. Like, double the length of his actual legs. And then he'll. He'll scrunch them all up and stack them on top of his shoes. Like, so he has to lift them up with both hands. Yes. And he literally. So he shared this tweet that was someone saying, like, like, I want to lift up my pants. Like a. Like a princess lifts up her skirt going downstairs. And he was like, finally, somebody gets me. And, like, once that image clicked for me, I was like, oh, my God, the pants make so much sense to me. Because I also, like, I really understand that feeling. Like, do you ever. When you're, like, going up the subway steps or something, like, lift up your dress and it makes you feel so elegant and fancy, even though you're doing something so stupid in my. And I fully get what he means by that. I'm like, I hope he does have his princess moment. Comments. This is so random, but I also have this feeling about when you're walking around with a tiny open container, something about it feels incredibly chic and elegant to me. Like, it's so dangerous, you know? But you're like, oh, this, my tiny little espresso.

[A]

Like, anything.

[B]

I'm just casual like this. Yeah. But I'm just chill like that. Who needs a cap? Like, it's just me. I don't know. It feels the same to me as the princess pants.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm so off track now. I don't remember even where I started this conversation because I just got lost. Oh, why do I like Justin Bieber? I think I just. I think I explained.

[A]

You've explained it. I think we got it.

[B]

That's what got me into him. And then I heard some songs I liked, and now I'm on the Justin Bieber bandwagon. And I do think he's doing. I think he's doing interesting things, even though people like to. I think this is kind of my pet passion, too, is like, I like people that are, like, a cultural underdog. Like, obviously, my passion for Kim Kardashian for, like, decades is proof of that. But it's like, I think people, like, when the public is underestimating the intentionality of what a celebrity is doing or, like, the depth of it or that to me is always, like, the person that suddenly I want to go to bat for. And that's kind of how I'm feeling about Bieber lately. I mean, obviously, I already felt that way in terms of fashion, but now I think what he's doing in terms of, like, music and performance to Me seems very comparable and it's really being dismissed as like laziness. And it all seems so intentional to me that I don't know how people do don't see it.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. I saw a lot of like uproar about how lazy of a show. Yes it was, but like conceptually I thought it was and it's like, I don't know who goes to see Justin Bieber and is expecting like a Katy Perry dancing in fireworks sort of totally.

[B]

Like he's not a choreography guy. Like, you know, he's not ever been known for true to him a crazy like showgirl stage experience. Like, I'm not really sure what people want want from their performance of Justin Bieber, but also like it's very much in line with I can't remember what award show he performed. Was it the Grammys when he was in his boxers? Anyway, he did a big performance at some award show where he was just in his boxers and kind of like making the song live almost. And like, and it felt very intimate. And there was a mirror on stage again, the mirror self. And he was like looking at himself in the mirror like while he was performing. And people said a lot of similar stuff about that, that it was like lazy, it was ill conceived. Like he didn't put any effort into it. And I'm like, I'm not sure what the disco, like, how are you not seeing the effort and the intentionality. Those are all choices he's actively making to make a commentary about the figure he is in the world and the expectations put upon him. And also I think this new era where he is very much like as you see in both of these cases, I think performing for himself, like performing on his own terms, like creating his own environment, creating how he feels comfortable to be an artist and to express himself. That is kind of sure it is kind of. I don't know, it's. I guess the audience feels like slighted, as though he's not doing it for them. But like that's kind of the point of what he's making is like his whole life has been for them. And so like what if he took back this thing for himself? I think. And like, I think the outrage is kind of his point. Like you're mad cause I'm not serving myself up on a platter exactly as you want me to be. Which is also yummy. Music video frankly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Him serving himself up on a platter.

[A]

Well, it also makes me think of, you know, Doppelganger by Naomi Klein, which we also Read in the book club a couple months ago. And this idea that, like, the appearance of your doppelganger in sort of any form, whether it's like the mirror on the Stage or the YouTube video of Justin or like the selfies you're taking. She writes, it's almost always chaotic, stressful, and paranoia inducing. And I think that paranoia inducing aspect of celebrity is such a part of Justin's work now, or at least his Persona in the public eye. So I think it's kind of fun to be playing with these sort of doppelganger themes in his shows and dealing with that tension between the you that is not you, which is your image.

[B]

Yeah. And I was thinking that quite. I think that really comes to a head even in that clip of him yelling at the paparazzi that's now been reconverted into a meme. And a meme that he used of himself at the Coachella performance, which is like, not talking to you, which I'm sure everybody knows that reference by now, but I don't know, I just thought that was so interesting because here he is making this like, like, really definitive public statement about the abuse that he suffered at the paparazzi, but it's like, turned into this iconic meme joke. But it's like. And he too is now reappropriating it as like, a meme and a joke. But it is a very real serious thing about the position that he occupies in the world and how his image is used, how his doppelganger mere self is, like, used and proliferated across the Internet. Right. Where even him attempting to set a boundary for himself and his family ends up turning into a. A joke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Yeah, I think that's very interesting. And. And again, a moment where, like, he was kind of laughed at by the paparazzi and kind of like establishment media as like, he's crazy, he's losing it. And like, everyone who watches that video, like, it turned into an iconic meme because we're all like, word like that that is an appropriate response to the moment. Like, it's not clocking to them. Like, he is standing on business, you know, Like, I don't know. Yeah. And something. I. I mean, I think what was most interesting for me about the performance to his own YouTube videos is. I mean, maybe I say this as someone who is an EMDR therapy, but it seemed very much like an EMDR therapy experience because, like, yeah, harmonizing with your childhood self and like, when you think about all of the insane trauma from everything that Justin has experienced from that age until now. And like being able to go back to your childhood self before those experiences and harmonize with yourself and sing those hit songs. I don't know, it feels like what you do in EMDR therapy, like you go back into these traumatic. I think it is kind of. I think it is kind of meaningful and beautiful. Like, you go back and you. You tell your childhood self like, hey, do you know what age we are now? Like, do you know all I've been through and like, how okay I am? And I've like survived all that stuff and like, you don't need to worry about. Like, I know you're holding on to all these like, fears and anxieties because of what you think is protection, but, like, I can actually protect myself now. And that felt to me like what he was doing through these moments of like, harmonizing and I was thinking about it even. Cause there's this TikTok thing that went viral. He's singing one of his. I don't know the names of any of his songs. He's singing one of those, like early hit songs from when he was like a child. And he's singing along with his childhood self and you. And it went viral on TikTok as a sound because you hear this moment, moment where his singing voice changes, where he goes from singing along with it and kind of mocking it and being like, you know, like this. This stupid old song I used to have to sing all the time. And then you see it kind of click with him, like his fans reaction and like how like, much they love him in this song. And he starts singing for real on the next line. And people were saying they were making this meme on TikTok, like, oh, Justin Bieber remembered. He's Justin Bieber. But to me, I was like, well, I. I think that's quite literally true. I think he's having this moment of, I don't know, solace or synergy or something between these two selves and seeing that childhood self not through his own lens of the trauma that he experienced, but through the lens of his fans and how much they love that version of him and this version of him. I don't know. I think there's something very healing in that and therapeutic and. Yeah, I don't know, it made me think too. I used to think about this a lot when Kendrick put out that album, Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers that has all these Eckhart Tolle interludes that he mixed into it. And I thought in that album, I never saw anyone write about this and I thought it was so odd, but to me, that album was so clearly Kendrick going to therapy and then boiling down and regurgitating his big takeaways from therapy for his audience in a really palatable way, which is rap music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. I don't know. And so this, to me felt like a similar thing of Justin taking probably decades of therapy and kind of like boiling it down to this, like one kind of cathartic experience, artistic moment that's like, let me kind of just show you. I don't know, like high level therapy through art.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like his next collab with Haley Bieber is going to be emotional support. Sunscreen.

[B]

Oh, there you go. Exactly that.

[A]

Therapy into a topical skincare product. Product.

[B]

Yeah. But also just. Yeah. I guess my last point is just like, also so interesting that this performance did elicit these responses of like, oh, laziness. Or like, Justin owes us more or something. Because I do think both that performance and, like, everything Justin's kind of said coming back into the spotlight again is kind of questioning, like, what do celebrities owe us? Like, what are they obligated to provide us with and what are they not? Which I think we've long overstepped the idea of, like, what they. What celebrities should be giving us of their person hood. And even the fact that the big meme is like, it's not clocking to you, them standing on businesses. And it's still literally not clocking to us that he's standing on business because we're still like, where's the performance? Like, you should have sung this and that and, like, had these fireworks go off and shit. And it's like, okay, Right, right.

[A]

Such a good point. Such an iconic line. It's probably his career.

[B]

You know, he'll have more. I mean, I think he is quite iconic. I think he is weirdly tapped into the present moment in a way that I think he doesn't always get credit for.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And same for Halian Road. I don't agree with what they're doing a lot of the time, but it is. It's working for a reason. They are tapped in.

[B]

And I always think too, it's like, Haley is not for me. She is not like, interesting to me or, like, my type of, like, celebrity figure. But I know that there are millions and millions of women in this world who, like, absolutely, that is what they identify with and that's what they want. And they want, like, a weird, fake Carolyn Bessette Kennedy for the Digital era. And, and that's what she's given. She's giving it to them. So you got to respect the. The branding. Branding. The branding is the literal branding and the figure.

[A]

I know she's branding your face with her branding. Is it time for mess of the month?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Talk about faces.

[A]

Let's get to it.

[B]

My mess of the month is Kris Jenner's tautness. It's been the talk. It's been the talk of all the tabloids. And I'm obsessed with just the way that we're talking about the language we're using to talk about her taut face. I love all of the it. I have to, I do have to say first, though, that this was a very difficult mess of the month for me to choose because just today I found out that Channing Tatum has been posting through the Zoe Kravitz engagement to Harry Styles. And you all out there know how I love a sad famous Tom Brady. You know it. And you know I love a sad famous man posting his art break on the Internet just foolishly for all to enjoy. And he's really been doing. I'll talk about it in the newsletter this week, though. Don't worry. But anyway, so I had to put my feelings about that aside because I do need to talk about Chris because she's really been cracking me up. There's all these stories out this week that she's reportedly really pissed off that her hundred thousand dollar facelift is starting to sag. And apparently she's been comparing, I mean, how long has she had this facelift? Like, over a year. A year?

[A]

At least a year, I guess maybe a year. Wow.

[B]

Yeah, well, because I saw the. The Daily Mail was showing me. The Daily Mail was showing me her face when it first got done, or like close to when it first got done. And it did say 2025 on it, but I forget what month it was. And then it was showing me at the Vanity Fair after party to show me how much that the tautness is weighing the slippage. Exactly. The quote, unquote slippage. So apparently Chris is really mad about this and she's been comparing her current face to those of freshly lifted starlets. Like Denise Richards just got a big facelift. And so she's like, well, why is my face not as taut as Denise's?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And then I learned from your newsletter this week that apparently this whole story about the slippage was planted by a rival surgeon who's jealous of all the good press that Chris's surgeon, Dr. Steven Levine, has been getting.

[A]

Yes, that was reporting from Rachel Strugatz at Puff, who gets a little, a lot of gossipy tidbits. So she was saying. Yep. Sources told her it was rival surgeon.

[B]

Well that's delightful. Although I do still believe that Chris is probably upset. Like I, I think that's both are, can be true. I think that when you're. We're a 70 year old woman who's battling against the tautness of your skin. Like the, the flagging elasticity that's like flagging every day that like it probably does upset you that you're not, not that there's any change in tautness ever. But I, I, yeah, but I understand that it is a story planted by arrival. I just can't get enough. Honestly. I just the idea and just that like a refusal to understand how gravity works or like time or aging. I just really think that's amazing and so, so funny. And if anyone is disconnected from reality like that, it's absolutely Kris Jenner. And then also kind of what I was realizing is what Kris Jenner wants from her face is like, like a hundred percent immobility. So like why not just paralyze yourself at that point? Like isn't wouldn't that be the dream of tautness? Like if you can't use your face all over? Yeah. Or is there something more extreme?

[A]

I don't know that there is something more extreme.

[B]

I was thinking like, is there a way to like sever nerves that like go to the face or something? Because genuinely what she wants is like, like sub, like she wants to pull it extremely tight and then never use her face again so that like nothing ever moves. So that never has to be taught in again. And I was like, you can only get that through paralysis.

[A]

Yeah, but that's what Botox does. It paralyzes your muscles totally.

[B]

But I want, but I think that it's not enough.

[A]

It's not. No, it's not enough, Chris.

[B]

That's what I'm suggesting.

[A]

It's never enough for Chris.

[B]

Maybe Botox can come out with like a Botox Pro or like a Botox Max and it does something to actually like kill off nerve endings so that you can't actually control your face anymore. Oh, stroke, I guess is what I'm gesturing at.

[A]

Yes. And she Stroke.

[B]

An aesthetic stroke. If we could, if we could control the dimensions of the stroke and just point it to the face muscles. I feel like,

[A]

I feel like this is going to be the new lobotomy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like this is the lobotomy for the modern age.

[B]

Yeah. And I think they'd love it. And so I'm just putting it out there for all our doctors listening, all of our aesthetic derms, perhaps in the audience. I think that this is maybe the future and that I'm scared that you

[A]

just predicted the future.

[B]

Would love it. The last thing I just wanted to say about Chris's face is that I wanted to bring up one of our readers during book club yesterday. Reminded me of this character, Cassandra, from Doctor who, who is just a flap of skin stretched tight like a Dr. Over a metal frame, like a sentient flap of skin. And I realized that's what Chris wants. She wants to be a Cassandra, and someone should figure out how to make that happen for her.

[A]

I need to watch Doctor who. I need to know what this is all about.

[B]

You need to at least have you looked at the pictures of her?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. You do need to at least, at the very, very least, look at the picture, because she's literally like your mascot. She is your muse.

[A]

Oh, my God, I love her.

[B]

Yeah, she's really incredible. And she's a bitch. She's, like, really mean, which I think is also really fun. Fun.

[A]

Okay. I'm gonna be Cassandra for Halloween. I don't know how.

[B]

Oh, that would be such a good Halloween costume. Talk about the latex beds that suck. You could do that.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. I really can't wait.

[B]

This is. This is our Swan Beauty, Advanced style or whatever, Meeting of the minds.

[A]

Okay. My mess of the month is the Euphoria and Half Magic collaboration. They came out with a project called Beam Trap Blush. So the makeup artist for Euphoria, Donnie Davey, she has a makeup brand called Half Magic. And so they just did an official collaboration with the show Euphoria to celebrate season three. And I just thought this was so strange and fascinating. But their high beam blush and highlighter set is specifically inspired by that very famous scene of Sydney Sweeney as Cassie, like, sort of hyperventilating in the bathroom, and she's, like, perfectly made up, but she's crying through her perfect makeup, and she's insisting, I have never, ever been happier. So on the front of the package of this blush, it says, I have never, ever been happier. And on the back it says, I think being single is really stressing you out, which is a quote from another character, Maddie, in that scene. And so Donnie Davey told Allure. That is the inspo for this product. It's Hysteria, Love, Rage Blush.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then Allure. Right.

[B]

I'm just Looking at the. I Googled it because I was like, let me just get an eyeball on, like, what this scene, what she actually looked like in the scene. Blush is, like, kind of the least of what's happening here.

[A]

Yes. Okay. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, there's so many beauty products involved in this look, and blush is kind of, like, not the one that's registered.

[A]

And this is why it is my mess of the month. So Allure says the palette helps you create the flushed cheeks of someone who just cried in the bathroom. And so I'm just fascinated that in this scene, Cassie's perfectly made up face is supposed to be part of her performance of being in control of putting on this front of happiness. The blush is not very apparent, and as she starts screaming and crying, her language and her makeup betray the truth that she is not actually happy. And now this blush highlighter that's come out is supposed to help people evoke the look of hysteria and love rage. So it's a makeup product meant to evoke the emotion underneath the actual makeup in the scene. Like, the makeup is a simulacrum of control in the scene, and the makeup inspired by the scene is a simulacrum of simulacrum of out of control hysteria.

[B]

It's bringing your eternal makeup to your face makeup.

[A]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's, like, just kind of mind blowing to think of the levels of, like, construction of an image there.

[B]

Yes. And also, it's just, like, it's logically, like, not sound. I know this is the least of the problem here, but, like, whose cheeks become flushed because they just cried in the bathroom room?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I don't think cheeks flush because of that. Also, love rage, like, y' all made that up. That's not a real, like, thing that anyone's talking about or feel or. I mean, I guess we're feeling it, but just to coin the phrase love rage, blushes is so wild to me. She's in love rage. And also, nobody wants to be Cassie.

[A]

Like, you're in a love rage, a

[B]

horrible love triangle where you're actually being, like, used and abused by, like, an evil. An evil boy. No, not really. And the whole thing about, like, nobody wants to be Cassie, that's, like, kind of the moral of the show is, like, nobody wants to be her. And that the appearance is, like, very much belying a messy internal landscape of, like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Nightmarish insecurities.

[A]

Yes. Which is why it's just so funny that this makeup product is not like, oh, do your Makeup, like Cassie. It's like, do your makeup to look like you have the nightmarish insecurities and emotional outcomes. Bursts of Cassie.

[B]

Right. But, like, it's just wild to me. Like, if you're gonna peg it to a. Like, everyone wants to be Maddie. Like, at the very least, just say, it's like, Maddie's blush or something. You know, this is a very interesting, strange marketing gimmick. And the more you point out these, like, weird. I don't know, these emotional pegs to these products, the more I, like, can't unsee them even. I think maybe it was last month that you were talking about it was because we were talking about butt blush, and you were saying that it's like, it's something that's evoking, like, a natural response in the body to stimuli, and it's, like, one of the only beauty products that does that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Any. Any blush, almost look deep enough in the marketing and you'll see some sort of reference to what emotion you'll look like you're feeling when you wear it. Yeah.

[B]

Maybe Kris Jenner needs this love rage blush. Go see her plastic surgeon in a love rage. Help with tautness.

[A]

She needs something.

[B]

She needs something, I guess, all the time.

[A]

I think just like, inner peace.

[B]

Impossible. Can you buy that?

[A]

How much is the opposite of love rage? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe half magic will come out with a inner peace blush.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sure Selena Gomez has supplements.

[A]

Oh, she does, actually. I think she did. I think it's like, inner light, something. Yeah.

[B]

There we go. That'll fix it.

[A]

All right, well, we've done it again. Thanks for listening.

[B]

Nothing to talk about. Two solid hours of talking about this month. That's how it goes.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you for listening. If you liked this, please, you know, review, subscribe, listen next month.

[B]

Month comment, ask us questions.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. If you want a mailbag episode. That would be fun.

[B]

Would love to, with pleasure.

[A]

All right, bye.

[B]

Bye.