Quitting Bodybuilding - Ramon Limacher

Summary

The Revive Stronger Podcast

Episode Title: Quitting Bodybuilding – Ramon Limacher
Date: June 13, 2026
Host: Steve Hall (Revive Stronger)
Guest: Ramon Limacher

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Episode Overview

This episode features elite natural bodybuilder and coach Ramon Limacher, who recently stepped away from competitive bodybuilding after achieving two world titles, earning his pro card, and a pro debut. Steve and Ramon discuss Ramon's journey into bodybuilding, his competitive highs, the evolution of his motivations, physical and psychological recovery post-show, his changing training philosophies, and the difficult decision to step away from contest prep. The conversation offers deep insight into athletic identity, longevity, and redefining personal success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ramon's Bodybuilding Journey

• Early Beginnings & Motivation

  • Started training at 13, inspired by German natural bodybuilders and podcasts like 3DMJ.
  • 2019: First show, self-prepped, no show experience. Motivated by the challenge itself (“I just loved training… it was like a natural evolution for me” – Ramon, 02:07).
  • Recognized good genetics early; progressed rapidly compared to peers.

• Competitive Achievements

  • Competed as a junior/teenager; rapid progression due to favorable genetics and disciplined training.
  • Earned pro card in 2021 with coach AJ Morris, then prepped with Daniel Kubrick for 2024 pro debut.
  • “With my last season, I was generally very happy with how I looked… That was actually my favorite look ever.” (Ramon, 00:54)

2. Learning and Coaching Experiences

• Coaching Influence

  • Coached by AJ Morris and later by Daniel Kubrick (“He did a flawless job, it was just immaculate from front to end the prep.” – Ramon, 08:57).
  • Now coaches others, leveraging his journey and insights for clients.

• Reflections on Recovery and Competing

  • Each prep became easier mentally due to experience, but physical recovery remains hard every time (“Practice and experience makes it more comfortable…but it doesn’t actually make it any physically easier.” – Steve, 12:09).
  • Post-show recovery is often underestimated—physiological and psychological adjustments last months (“It took me like 12 months to get back to an awesome state.” – Ramon, 19:58).

3. Shifting Motivations and Life Beyond Bodybuilding

• Loss of Competitive Fire

  • After 2024, felt satisfied with physique and achievements; the “fire” for competition faded.
  • “I just didn’t feel that fire to get back on stage… the fire just died down a bit.” (Ramon, 13:26)
  • Transitioned focus to looking and feeling good, emphasizing health, aesthetics, and athleticism.

• Redefining Training and Goals

  • Reduced training frequency, prioritized upper body and cardio, focused on fitness and VO2 max while maintaining a high FFMI (“My new mission: keep the standards from bodybuilding, but get fitter and healthier.” – Ramon, 25:53).
  • Embracing the “life athlete” mindset: “I’m training for life… maximizing how good I feel and how healthy I am.” (Ramon, 48:41)

4. Post-Competition Recovery and Psychological Impact

• Recovery Insights

  • “The prep is not over when you step off stage… It also needs a lot of discipline.” (Ramon, 20:49)
  • Discussed the two types of post-show mindset: those gaining aggressively, and those who gain slowly (overly strict); both face challenges.
  • Stressed the importance of being aware that bodybuilding is taxing and recovery is a process (“After that, you’re just looking… feeling not perfect, and it’s a very unproductive six months after a show.” – Ramon, 20:49).

• Identity Shift & Social Media

  • Identity crisis after stepping away from competition: “So much of my identity was attached to being a good bodybuilder…There was a time where I felt kind of lost and I had to redefine the love for training for myself.” (Ramon, 30:48)
  • Found new passion in training for health and performance, not just stage outcomes.

5. Social Media, Pressure, and Coaching

• Impact of Social Media

  • Building a large following enhanced Ramon's trajectory and created pressure (“For sure it impacted my decisions…In 2021 I felt a lot of pressure from social media, self-inflicted pressure to be honest.” – Ramon, 35:16).
  • Now sees social media as a way to share a wider message beyond just contest prep.

• Message to Others

  • Focus on intrinsic rewards: “The work is the reward…If you attach to something you’ll get on that day X, you are losing.” (Ramon, 38:16)
  • Winning is fleeting—lasting value comes from the process, character-building, and daily commitment.

6. On Winning, Natural Status, and Future Plans

• The Reality of Winning & Credentials

  • The sense of accomplishment fades quickly: “Winning is the best feeling, but it’s like 30 seconds, maybe the next day…and then you go back to being a normal guy.” (Ramon, 38:16)
  • True value in journey, not titles: “No one will pat on your back because you won… the reward is really the journey.” (Ramon, 38:16)
  • Credentials and social media mean less in the digital age; real progress documented and shared is more valuable (Steve, 45:29).

• Remaining Drug Free

  • Maintains “natty” status and is open to future competing if the fire returns (“I'm still very aware about my natty card… I'm able to walk it in the future if I want to.” – Ramon, 56:43)

7. Supplementation and Longevity

• Perspective on Supplements
  • Originally skeptical; now sees value in targeted, individualized supplementation for health and client results (59:36).
  • Emphasizes testing (e.g., bloodwork) and optimizing health markers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Satisfied Achievement
  • “I can confidently say… I was generally very happy with how I looked.” – Ramon (00:54)
• On Genetic Potential
  • “It’s a very genetic sport… you’ll know pretty fast if you have good genetics.” – Ramon (04:44)
• On Growth & Coaching
  • “AJ Morris… showed me that I’m still a big fish in a small pond and believed in me.” – Ramon (08:57)
• On Recovery Awareness
  • “The difference after 2024 was that fire for bodybuilding… was gone. With that came more questions.” – Ramon (10:43)
• On Post-Prep Challenges
  • “It was a hard journey, but… I realized what actually are the consequences to my body and mind.” – Ramon (10:43)
• On Leaving Bodybuilding
  • “I always acted very hard on alignment of what I feel… The fire just died down a bit.” – Ramon (13:26)
• On Redefining Self
  • “So much pride and so much of my identity was attached to being a good bodybuilder.” – Ramon (30:48)
• On Winning’s True Value
  • “The work is the reward… If you don’t feel that, you should not do it.” – Ramon (38:16)
• On Social Media Pressure
  • “In 2021 I felt a lot of pressure from social media, self-inflicted pressure to be honest.” – Ramon (35:16)
• On Natural Status
  • “I’m still keeping that track open… I would say I’m retired, but I would not say I will never, ever step on stage again.” – Ramon (56:43)
• On Growth after Competing
  • “You need to be ready to listen to these thoughts… In the beginning, I just identified them as being weird, weak…” – Ramon (54:00)
• On Supplements
  • “I changed my opinion… the magic of customized supplementation really makes a difference in my opinion.” – Ramon (58:33)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:54 – Ramon's satisfaction with his peak physique and stage memories
• 02:07 – Early training, inspirations, and entry into bodybuilding
• 04:44 – Recognizing genetic advantages and coaching others
• 08:57 – Transitioning coaches and refining approach
• 10:43 – Post-show recovery, changing fire for bodybuilding
• 13:26 – No longer feeling aligned with competition prep
• 16:45 – The reality of maintaining a muscular physique after years of training
• 19:58 – Timeframes and markers for true post-prep recovery
• 20:49 – Underestimating the difficulty of post-show periods
• 25:53 – Ramon's new “life athlete” philosophy and program structure
• 30:48 – Managing identity, passion, and the transition from bodybuilding
• 35:16 – The impact of social media on decision-making
• 38:16 – The fleeting nature of winning and the journey’s rewards
• 45:29 – Credentials and sharing the journey vs. winning
• 48:41 – Message evolution: from “achieve naturally” to “life athlete”
• 54:00 – Honesty about judgments, identity, and embracing change
• 56:43 – On retirement and keeping the door open for a return
• 58:33 – Updated perspective on supplementation and health

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Conclusion

This episode is a candid exploration of what it means to compete, succeed, and ultimately step back from the world of bodybuilding. Ramon Limacher offers hard-earned wisdom on aligning training and life with personal values, the importance of finding joy in the process, and the necessity of adapting identity beyond athletic achievement. Both aspiring and retiring athletes—plus coaches and fitness enthusiasts—will find invaluable lessons on resilience, self-awareness, health, and personal evolution.

Follow Ramon on Instagram: @ramon_limoger
See his prep series on YouTube: Ramon Limoger

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Transcript

[Ramon Limoger]

So good, so good, so good.

[Steve]

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[Ramon Limoger]

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[Steve]

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[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, I wouldn't say I achieved everything I wanted. I mean, everyone wants to be world champion in the pro league. But in terms of my physique, I can confidently say that with my last season, I was generally very happy with how I looked. That I can say, I mean, it would be nice to win against everybody, but I was generally very happy with the physique that I brought, especially the pack package. When I stood on stage with you, next to you next to bubble car, that was actually my favorite look ever.

[Steve]

That's awesome. Yeah, if people want to see, obviously I'll have your Instagram linked in the description so there might be some photos they can see there. But I did do a vlog on the Switzerland show, so I have like a whole stage time and yeah, just I look back at that, I'm like, everyone looked incredible on stage in fact, but I was just like, dude, these guys some mass monsters right on that stage, including you, Ramon, to kind of circle back. I wanted to start with that because like people get an understanding of how impressive of a bodybuilder you are and how much you've done in the space. What got you into competing in the first place?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, I started training very early on when I was 13 years old and I just followed a few German people in terms of natural bodybuilding. And I got into the 3DMJ bubble and actually your podcast as well, very early on in my career. So I was just watching or listening to the podcast three DMJ for a long time and I had that in the back of my mind to compete one day. And in 2019, a friend of mine decided to compete and I said, let's do it. I never been to a bodybuilding show before. I prepped myself for that show with the prep Guidebook from Lane Norton and Cliff Wilson. Like, I just read these two books and prepped myself for that show in 2019. So I didn't really have much surface area with the sport when I got into it. I just loved training, and it was like a natural evolution for me to just get into that challenge of doing a competition prep. That was like, the exciting thing for me, seeing these people so shredded, watching to this episode of 3DMJ, like, with their horror stories about prep. I don't know about you, but that kind of, like, excited me to see how that would feel like, to do that myself. So it was just a genuine interest in how I would do. I was. I mean, I was 18 years old when I entered my prep, and I just want to. To do that challenge and see what. What's happening. And I had no expectation. I mean, I have never stood against anyone. I was just training in my gym. I don't even have, like, videos of me, like, doing any bodybuilding poses before I tried to posing for the first time in my First Prep in 2019.

[Steve]

You truly went in at the deep end, and so it must have been quite a learning curve at that point. Did you do any sports before you got into bodybuilding, or have you always been kind of weightlifting?

[Ramon Limoger]

I did. I played football or soccer before I got into bodybuilding, but I was not that good at it, to be honest. And, like, weight training was the first thing in my life where I was really, from the beginning, I just saw I was really good at it. Like, I progressed fast. I saw this is something I can excel at. And I think that's what got me hooked as well. Just to see that progression and see that I'm really good at it and

[Steve]

progress very fast was that you knew that versus, like, your friends you were also training with, you were just, like, seeing progress faster than them.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes. I mean, I think it's. No, it's not something nobody knows about the sport. It's a very genetic sport. And I mean, if you have the potential to be among the best in the world, I always say, you don't need to do your first show. You will know. And I knew pretty fast that I have good genetics. I mean, I outperformed everyone in a very short period. Like, when I was 16, I was already benching, like, three plates, squatting, almost four plates, things like that. It's just also, like, I coach a lot of people now, and I never saw such a fast progression like I had, like, I was starting with 13 years old, my first. My fitness Pole entry was with 55kgs and like three years later, four years later was 90kgs. So I just added added tissue and strength very, very fast. So yes, I knew that this is something I'm good at, but I had still no like, comparison to what that means in a, in a bigger picture. I just knew that like I'm better than, or I progress faster than my friends.

[Steve]

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think it's always interesting to think back to when you first get into the gym and like, I don't even remember really noticing those things so much. I just remember like enjoying the process of going to the gym and bettering myself.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes, me too. I mean, now I see it, but back then I just knew it's a lot of fun and I knew I'm better than the two friends or progressing faster. But I mean, that could just be a coincidence. I just had a real love for what I was doing. I had no plan on competing for the first six years. I mean, I did no social media, I did not record myself. I did nothing. I just trained for six years straight, bulked, got really strong. And honestly, I had also not a lot of friends who I shared that with. So it was just me watching videos, enjoying myself, going to school, eating my meals, training hard. And I just really, really loved doing that.

[Steve]

And was I so 3 dmj. Was mat ogus before your time or was it, did you catch on to Mount Ogus? Were they your first, like, influences?

[Ramon Limoger]

Matt August, I mean, I watched him a bit, but not, I think it was a bit before my time.

[Steve]

Yeah, you're not as old as me. How old are you now, Ramon?

[Ramon Limoger]

I'm early 20s.

[Steve]

25?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes.

[Steve]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm a decade, I'm a decade on from you. So there's quite a bit of difference there. And I think I got into it when Matt was at his like, peak in terms of popularity.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, I, I, I saw some videos of him like front squatting and all these things, like back squatting, front squatting with amazing technique. Me for sure. But I think I was a bit too late to like, really become a fan and, and, and, and watch him closely. I just saw some videos of him. Yes.

[Steve]

Your second prep, Ramon, was that 2021? Because I think we both competed that year as well.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes. My second prep was 2021. Yes.

[Steve]

And that's where did you, you earned your pro card that year, was that right?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes. I got very close in my first year in the overall as a junior, I Almost beat the one who won the overall. And then in my second year, I teamed up with AJ Morris and I did my second prep and I won my pro card there on the world Championships.

[Steve]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, I remember because I think we had. Me. I know Martin Lamont also came over and he was in that overall, so he must have. Yeah. In there with you. And so. Yeah, that's. That's incredible. And 2021 was a funky year, but to think that you were close to earning your pro card as a junior is a little bit mind blowing.

[Ramon Limoger]

I was a teenager back then, so I competed afterwards in the teenage division in the WNB Worlds. Yes.

[Steve]

Nice. And from then you competed obviously 2024 and that was like your pro debut season. Was that self coached throughout that entire prep?

[Ramon Limoger]

No, no, no. I. I worked with a few coaches. I started with AJ Morris. Like he really showed me what is possible and like showed me that I'm still like a big fish in a small pond and showed me like in terms of strength and all these things of what's really possible. He really believed in me and put me on that next level. We had a Harsh Prep in 2021, and afterwards I worked with two German coaches. Daniel Kubrick, you might know him, sure. He is amazing. And he prepped me for 2024 and he did like for real, a flawless job. I don't think like that one decision gate was like wrong. It was just immaculate from front to end the prep.

[Steve]

And with each prep, I'm guessing you learn and you experience things differently. Did it get easier for you going from prep to prep?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, for. For sure. It got. It got easier. It got easier for me.

[Steve]

Yes.

[Ramon Limoger]

I would, I would say that 100%.

[Steve]

And obviously now as we're just talking off air very briefly, it's been a while since you stood off stage. I think you probably ended similar time to me. You managed to make it to WMBF Worlds, because I know that was a bit of a challenge kind of traveling and everything, which is just some of the. The beauties of prep. So you ended 2024, November, and then ever since then, actually I think I have seen you doing some diet periods and things. Not too much, but you basically have been recovering. And I know this was this recovery phase post show more challenging than other times, or was it similar? What was different for you?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, I think it was pretty similar than from the other ones. My awareness levels and my priorities were just different. I mean, when you're 19 years old, you're recovering from prep, you don't really like get what's actually going on in your body. Same thing with 2021 there. It was just I got off stage, I felt like I have something to prove and like that fire for bodybuilding was so strong that I just saw like, what's happening as a price to pay to do bodybuilding. And I was willing to. And the difference after 2024 was that that fire for bodybuilding also because, like I said, I was very happy with my phys sick and I felt like I did what I wanted. That was gone. And with that came more questions that I asked myself during that recovery period. And I had a higher awareness level on what's actually going on and how I'm feeling. And I let these feelings closer to me than I did before because I think a recovery period from prep sucks. Most of the time the question is how you frame it. And therefore, I mean, it was a hard journey, but it wasn't like the point or what got to me. It wasn't that it was so hard, just I realized what actually are the consequences to my body and my mind.

[Steve]

I see. Yeah. It's always because I think practice and experience makes it more comfortable in some ways because you know what to expect. You have better skill sets to be able to handle it. But. But it doesn't actually make it any physically easier. It's still, you're taking yourself down to essential levels of body fat. Your hormones are way out of whack, hunger's really, really high, libido's in the floor, energy levels are poor, you're irritable. All those things still occur. You just maybe have skills that you're able to manage them better and hopefully you get to that point and maybe you reserve some of that. You don't quite have to dig yourself into as big as a whole, but it's still something you have to recover from. Right. So it's still painful. And it makes sense that as you mature and you age and go through it and you have more experiences, you kind of have those like critical thoughts of like, is this what I want to be doing with my kind of life and energy and everything there? And I guess for you, having taken your physique to such a high level, was it part of it also feeling like, hey, you feel like you've achieved most of what you kind of the physique, obviously at the start you hadn't achieved the kind of world titles and things, but in terms of taking your physique to that level, do you feel like you've Met like as high a standard as what you think you'd get to, or do you think there's not much left juice to squeeze out?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, there are two parts in me to answer that question. One part is still that competitor in me that says for sure there is more potential. And I will never deny that. I mean, I didn't max out my physique. If I would give it another 10 years, for sure, I would be great. For me, it was just I always like acted very hard on alignment of what I feel and what my heart and my head thinks. So that was just kind of gone. Like, I just didn't feel that fire to get back on stage and walk through life with that lens of being a perfect athlete, because that's the way I function. Like the last 10 years, I just made my decisions out of that lens. I wouldn't say, like I was one of these extreme bodybuilders, but still it was just constantly in the back of my head that I want to do that. And I think the fire just died down a bit. And like I said, I started to ask myself different questions. And I had to realize for myself that like spending next two years improving again, doing bulking phases, trying to put on more weight and or more muscle is not really what excites me. And therefore I had to realize that I want to. Want to go into a different route,

[Steve]

have interest. What excites you now?

[Ramon Limoger]

It excites me to look really good. Like if you are a bodybuilder, you are like, I put in 10 years of work into my body and I actually look amazing if I have the right body fat percentage. But the amount of time you spend in that body fat percentage is ridiculously small. Like either you're coming down to get stage lean and you're spending in that comfortable area like maybe four weeks and then you. Or eight weeks and then you go past it. And if you're going up, you're spending again, 10, maybe 12 weeks there and then you're going above this point again. So this excites me also. Feeling really good, like taking care of your body, actually being very healthy, having high energy and feeling like an athlete. I started training because I wanted to feel good, wanted to look good. And I'm trying to maximize these things now. And also the topic of like being healthy long term, like doing a bit more cardio and just not having that single goal of just maximizing my muscle potential at all cost on the other side, I mean, I'm in a comfortable position where I can Say I have an FFMI of above 25% so I can do that and still look great. I mean you need to put in the work to get to that place. But I would just want to enjoy the fruits of my labor, to be honest. Yes.

[Steve]

Yeah, that's totally fair enough. And I think actually this off season for me is the first time I feel like I've been able to do that a little bit too. But it's as you said, it's only because of all the muscle I've built over close to two decades of training that's got me to a level of. But body mass, lean body mass that's allowed me to look like big in clothes or like whatever in clothes.

[Ramon Limoger]

I saw this. Well, you're still pretty, pretty lean looking great. So that's, that's amazing.

[Steve]

Yeah. And that's one of the things I guess is it differs a little bit person to person. That post show recovery have you found obviously you've coached people to stage before and you've probably seen this difference between individuals. Do you think you're someone who finds it a little tougher than others?

[Ramon Limoger]

I wouldn't really say that. I think honestly that with most people it takes approximately the same amount of time no matter what you're doing. Like if you're taking it a bit slower, it might take you a bit longer, but you end up in the same position as someone who then goes a bit harder after a show and then needs to diet down again. So I think after two years everyone is approx. Or after one year everybody's approximately at the same stage. No matter which approach you're taking. I don't really think it took me that much longer or it's particularly harder for me. I'm always very disciplined. I just think there were a few things that made it harder this time because we just pushed it very hard. Like I was my first show was in August, mid of August and my last show was end of November and I had striated glutes in August and I was in ridiculous shape end of November. So that for sure made it harder.

[Steve]

Yeah, I think it's. There's definitely this, I kind of think about it once you get below that like lower body fat intervention point where above that the body's happy at that the body's happy, but below that the body is like hey, you get those kind of reduced energy deficit symptoms. So all those negative aspects happen and the body's trying to fight you at every kind of left, right and center. And the longer you stay in that it's like you're on fire at that point. You're just burning. You can kind of dose the fire out a bit with a refeed, a peak week here or there, deloading, but you're still on fire. It's not fully out. So I definitely can see how being in that zone for so long could be really challenging and detrimental. And I definitely think on average most people, like you said, I totally see that where some people are a bit aggressive out the gates and they recover maybe a bit faster than someone takes a bit longer, but they kind of end up pretty much at the same point. I do think there's some outliers who seem to take much longer to recover and some people recover quicker. I definitely seem to be like for me the post show. I don't know why, I just don't seem to suffer as much as other people do during that phase. And similarly I managed to stay quite lean and yeah, not, not feel too bad about it. And that's one of the good parts I guess of my genetics. Like I have that aspect. I don't have the kind of the muscle building and the other aspects of genetics that obviously I would say that,

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean you're amazing. So you.

[Steve]

I don't think I've hit above a 25 FFMI, but I would love to at some point. That'd be great. But yeah, it's just very. When you mentioned, I think you said it took maybe about a year post show to feel like you were fully back and recovered. What's. What were some of those markers? Did you get blood work or anything like that done?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, I mean I got blood work done now after a year and it looked great then and I mean I felt pretty okay like six months after it but like amazing. It took 12 months like not to be comfortable, like to feel great and that's what I expect of what I'm doing or my body because like I'm putting so much work into, into being healthy, into feeling good. So it took me like 12 months to, to get back to an awesome, awesome state. Yeah.

[Steve]

And do you think that's one of the things people underestimate when they're going through a prep? Maybe they understand feeling that way during then feeling elements of that for so long post show. Do you think a lot of people underestimate that?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, I think for sure. I mean if there will just be the prep, I would not really have a problem with it. Like I like these weeks leading up to the last six weeks and I also enjoy the last like 10 weeks, that grind. And if you could just say, I'm done now, let's go back to baseline, that would be a very different story. But like, after that you're just looking, looking like. Or looking shit. You're feeling not perfect. And it's just, it's a very unproductive six months after, after, after a show. And I think a lot of people underestimate that part because it's. The prep is not over when you step off stage. And it also needs a lot of discipline. That's maybe. And I take full accountability for that. I mean, I probably was a bit too strict after the shows as well. I always had a bit of a more strict approach to eating and gaining slowly, not an extreme. But maybe I would just need to allow my body to go a tick faster. But yes, you need to be aware of that post show. You're not. Not done after that. Yeah.

[Steve]

And it's, it's interesting. I do. There's generally two character types or there's two extremes. Obviously. There's the person that just can't. They're just like, I'm done. It's off season. Like, I just need to gain body fat. Let's just eat. And they obviously can rapidly gain body fat, unfortunately, but they feel recovered and better much sooner than the person that's overly strict trying to kind of hold a bit of a tighter ship because they're so maybe overly concerned about gaining. Except excessive body fat. And I'm definitely on that side.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes.

[Steve]

So actually post show. So this time, how did it look? Did you allow yourself? I imagine you had still macros and calories that you were somewhat kind of monitoring. Did you allow yourself meals out and things like that, or you quite strict, that sort of thing?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, for sure. But I just never had like big overeatings. I had meals out. I was flexible. I enjoyed good food. I mean, I was in New York after the show as well, but I like never like overeaten. I have never eaten like more than 4, 500 calories, I think a day after the show, like a lot of other people do. And I got back to a calorie range afterwards and was pretty strict. But I mean, I still got like meals out with my girlfriend and all these things. So that's. I did all of that, but just maybe the gaining rate could have been a bit faster. I just was very concerned with putting on too much body fat.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's easy to get in that mindset too. Your actual post show sounds exactly like Mine, I was in New York and I never went over like that sort of calorie number either. And Cliff, who was coaching me through that prep and he did my kind of post show, he puts a precedence on maybe taking a bit longer to recover but staying leaner. So you've got like this huge Runway basically to kind of gain for.

[Ramon Limoger]

Well, that was also my goal to especially then accumulate more body fat when you are in a healthier state. Because I think one of the reasons why you look so horrible post prep is because you accumulate so much body fat in a hormonal environment that is just very bad. So I try to like experiment with that, getting out of that slowly and then putting on more body fat when I'm more recovered. Like the approach you took, I guess. Yes. I mean, it worked out kind of, but I was still not. Not happy with how I felt. Yes.

[Steve]

Hi, guys. Steve here. Just wanted to take a moment of your time to remind you of our online coaching service. At Revive Stronger, we pride ourselves on providing personalized service that will take your physique and knowledge to the next level. If you're interested, check the description and sign up. Yeah, I think a lot of people, I remember my limbs were like shredded, but I'd be like, my chest and my abs, they're so soft and worried what's going on? This is weird. I've got strayed glutes and feathering through my quad, but yeah, I barely got any abs. So yeah, it was really. Actually, I guess the way it looked with Cliff was it almost looked like to some extent just like off season gaining immediately. So quite conservative, slow rate of gain and then it didn't really change. Whereas I think the lesson for me was I know kind of the weight now that I need to get to, which is around 180 pounds to feel healthy and good again. Because it was like you said, you can go as slow as you like and take as long as you want, but it's like there's a weight or amount of body fat you need to have on your physique to just feel normal again. And so that's just a good lesson in learning I can take on for future preps. With regards to your training now, Ramon, it sounds like it's basically bodybuilding, but maybe it's a little bit less. Trying to be, quote unquote, that most optimal bodybuilder bodybuilding is the only thing that matters. So what kind of, what are the key changes to your, like off season now?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, so I mean, the lens, I'm Looking through that just changed a bit. I'm just not trying to like maximize muscle growth in every area. Like I have the lock that my legs are pretty big, so I just deploy, deprioritize them pretty hard and focused more on the upper body. Because when I'm saying I'm not going on stage soon, I don't really need the legs as much. So I'm just training them once a week. Then I also switched from five strength training sessions down to four strength training sessions a week. And I incorporated more cardio. Like I do zone 2 cardio for over a hundred minutes a week. Then I also do some interval trainings in zone 4 and 5 to just get my VO2 max up. So I also did a VO2 max test and I just want to see where I can take it there as well while holding on to an FFMI above 25. So that's like my new mission. I want to keep the standards and the things I learned from being a bodybuilder and keeping that physique from an aesthetic perspective, but getting fitter as well and even healthier from a. Yes, I hate the word longevity perspective, but like just maximizing these variables as well. Because this is something that excites me and it's just fun for me. So I incorporate them as well. But I don't know what the future holds. Maybe if I'm a bit older I'm gonna go back on stage. I'm not like against that or hate bodybuilding or anything like that. I have huge respect for the sport. I love following it. It's just, it just doesn't feel aligned for me to put all my eggs into that basket at the moment. And also there is a big business focus as well. So it's cool to do a lot of sports sessions a week. I do nine sports sessions a week, but they are a bit quicker. I can go out for a run, I have my cardio bike here and it's just to keep that base of strength training to keep my physique, keep building my physique in the areas I want, deprioritized areas I don't want. But I'm still ambitious to get stronger. I want to build more muscle in the right areas. I want to like squat heavy, bench heavy, deadlift heavy, do a lot of pull ups. That's still the goal.

[Steve]

Yeah, very cool. Yeah, it makes sense as well. Once you, the good thing is once you built the muscle, maintaining it is so much easier. And then it means you can be a newbie at these Other things. Which sounds, to be honest, like as someone who's like prioritizing bodybuilding through and through and have no room for anything else, it sounds like I'm like, ah, man, it would be quite cool to get into runny and be like a newbie and see those newbie gains and see those benefits.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, we both know if you are at a high level as an actual athlete and you want to get better, you need to like really hammer it. Like there is no like min max approach to making gains if you're advanced. Like you need a fully maxed out training plan. You need to hammer these body parts really, really hard. You need to like sleep really well, your nutrition needs to be on the money. And I'm really, really confident about that, that this makes an immense difference if you are at that level. Like I see that in coaching. Like if you want to get better, you just. There is no yes. People say it's not that important, meal, timing, all these things, but if you are at that level, I totally believe it makes a huge difference. It's that 1% that compounds over 12 months. And that's the decision I had to make. Like, I saw Bubba Carr, I saw these guys and I just knew no matter what I do, I will never reach them competitively. I will never. I mean that's just facts. And I'm very happy with my physique and I don't feel a fire to compete anymore. So why should I put all my eggs into that basket?

[Steve]

Yeah, no, I think that makes complete sense. Certainly makes life. I imagine you went through this. I don't know if I can call it an identity crisis, but I know

[Ramon Limoger]

for me it was, it was, yeah, yeah.

[Steve]

I just think, and it's so easy for me to guide myself through various decisions and thinking about stuff through that one lens of is this going to maximize my bodybuilding? Because if it's not, fuck it, I'm not doing it. Whereas if I'm like, well, I'm not trying to maximize that, I have lots of things I can do. So I imagine that transition was a bit uncomfortable and I think credit to you for taking the leap because, yeah, it's weird because everyone looks at it through their own lens. So I'm like, oh man, if I had Ramon's physique and I could take it to that level and be that high of a competitor, what would I do? But you are your own person in your own environment, in your own situation. So respect for you for following what Ramon wants, not what anyone else wants.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, it was a big identity shift. I mean, so much pride and so much of my identity was attached to being a good bodybuilder. I mean, that's who I was on social media. I mean, I got so much praise for it. Like, people are not that interested in seeing like a half ass run from my side, which is way below average. They want to see me compete, be shredded, be on stage. I got so much praise for that. Yes, those are like, from an identity perspective. There was a time where I felt kind of in the air and kind of lost and I had to redefine the love for training for myself. I think this was also a big part. I don't know if you had that as well, especially after your preps, like in your prep or during prep training gets really attached to that end goal. And after prep, for me, always I had to redefine like the love for training for myself. Just train for the sake of training. And I just really discovered that love again, to like doing sports, exhausting yourself, trading hard and, and that's really a part I had to redefine my identity and also my love for training. But I really found that again. So I love strength training so much at the moment. I love all the things I do besides that. And also from a coaching perspective, I mean, it opens up the lens of people you can help and lives you can change because you are. Or people who maybe are not identifying as much as a bodybuilder can relate better to you as well.

[Steve]

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And yeah, I can only imagine. I don't know if I got an injury that might take me out from bodybuilding and it's like, oh man, what do I have to kind of focus on? And that would be challenging, but I'm glad you found that passion. And it definitely makes sense also business wise that now it's like, hey, you're learning about other kind of avenues of fitness and health and how that can kind of be integrated into. Still trying to maintain or grow a good amount of muscle. Your social media following. I haven't checked how many followers recently you have on Instagram, which I don't even know if it's your biggest platform, but I'm going to assume it is. Yeah. Okay. It is. And you have a lot of followers. You might have to clarify. I know it's. I'm pretty certain it's over 100,000.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes.

[Steve]

How was growing that for you and kind of did that impact your, your own bodybuilding journey in any sort of way? Did you feel pressure from it? Did it make you, do you think it changed any of your actions or decision, decision making at various times?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean if I'm completely honest, for sure it like impacted my decisions. Like if you're 19 years old, you very good at it, you get praise on social media, you get the first few followers. It for sure like just created a very clear path that I, or a lifeline I just are able to take because it's like just in front of me and I just walked it. So it was all passion or it was a lot of passion but it also was it for sure impacted how I viewed bodybuilding. I don't know if I would be or I was as much into it if I would have placed like sixth place and I would have gotten no praise on social media. But I really loved it for these years I did it. In 2021 I felt a lot of pressure from social media, self inflicted pressure to be honest. It was the first time like there were eyes on me and I was also very unsure about the look I will bring. So that was pretty hard because that prep was hard. I was like losing 24 or 25 kgs in 26 weeks. So we really pushed it very hard and at the end I was still not in the shape I wanted to be. So that was not easy to manage that especially you know it yourself, you're not happy and you step out there and you're presenting a physique, you step out on that platform. But in 2024 I really enjoyed it like to share my journey. I was very confident in what I was bringing and, and during that time I really felt that push to share natural bodybuilding, to share what I was doing and to make cool videos about it and I really, really enjoyed that.

[Steve]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And I think it's, even if it was subconscious, there's definitely going to be some influence. Especially when I guess like social media for us it's not just sharing our journeys and our passion. It's also also marketing and business related and it definitely has downstream effects there. You obviously I believe you're a full time online coach, right? How long have you been doing that?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean I started in 2019, it's 2026 now, so six to seven years. I was very young when I started and then in 2023 I finished my degree in economics and then I straight away went. Went full time. Yes.

[Steve]

Oh cool. I didn't even realize you had a. You did a degree in economics. That's great.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, I Did, but I'm not using it at.

[Steve]

Yes, you'll be using it in ways. That's why I try and tell myself of my degree. I'm like, I sure I use that degree in some way.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, I would doubt that. But maybe subconsciously, like just the awareness.

[Steve]

You said min max.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yeah, I heard that.

[Steve]

That's a bit of an economic term, no.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes. So maybe statistics and all these things. Maybe I use them subconsciously. Yes.

[Steve]

And I'm jealous. Actually. Economics is what I wanted to do at university, but I needed to have done maths at A level and I hadn't done maths.

[Ramon Limoger]

So what did you, did you study

[Steve]

Geography with business, I was like, I'll do geography because I'm good at it. But the business side was like a bit of economics. I was like, I'll get that in there. So. But yeah, I also didn't do anything relating to my degree in any sense of the word.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, looking back to it, I was really like, if I could go back, I would like study like exercise science or biochemistry or something. Something like that. That would be so amazing to like really be an expert on that field. I mean, you are an expert in your field for sure. You're reading so many studies and you're very into all of this. But I would really like have that permission to call myself an expert. Like having the background of university and being able to be on that level. Yeah, yeah.

[Steve]

The credentials. And even having like a bsc versus a BA kind of, I think is economics are like arts or is it science? I actually don't know what you get. Is it a Bachelor of Arts or a Bachelor of Science? Maybe you don't even know. Let's just say it's science. There you go.

[Ramon Limoger]

I guess it's science, yes.

[Steve]

Whereas mine's a ba so it's Bachelor of Arts. So I'm like, God damn it, why is it arts? I wish I could at least have a bsc. Something you've done, done a great deal of content on. And I really, really love this content. Was talking about kind of winning and how like it didn't really make as big a difference as maybe many people think. How did. Like, I'd love to hear about some of your wins, like what are the, the best memories you have? But also that talking to that point of like how winning doesn't really change anything for you.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, maybe I have some topics I need to reflect on deeper there and I, I not, I'm not aware myself, but like winning just didn't give me as much as I imagined it would. Like what I always said the work is the reward during my prep because I knew it already because like winning is a great feeling to just in that moment like be on top there and beat everyone. Like there's no comparison to winning. It's so much better than getting second place. Like winning is the best feeling but. But it's like 30 seconds, maybe the next day you feel great and then you go back to being a normal guy from Switzerland, doing your coachings in your room and nothing changes. And for me in the beginning that was a big learning like that. Nothing changes. I mean I achieved dreams. I mean I remember when I was 13 years old I put into my WhatsApp status like don't let your dreams die with you. And I knew back then I want to be self employed and I want to get a WNBF pro card. That was the big or when I was six at now 16, 16 and that was my big vision that the big most ridiculous goals I could think about and now I achieved both of that and just nothing changed. And, and I had that thing in my 2024 prep already where I was always saying the work is the reward and I am sharing how it feels post prep, how it feels when you're winning. Because the biggest message I have for bodybuilders is bodybuilding is amazing. If you love it, bodybuilding is such an amazing sport, prep is such an amazing thing to do. But as soon as you attach it to something you will get on that day X on stage you are losing. Like bodybuilding is amazing, but only if you do it for the love of the journey because you actually enjoy it, because that's the real reward. No one will pat on your back because you won. You will not feel any different. And, and the reward is really the journey. And I prepped a lot of people and I'm sure you did too that were kind of disappointed after their show and felt kind of down and left the sport because they felt like it was not giving them as much as they thought it would. And I think the most important part is it won't give you something on stage day or on day X. It's giving you something during that whole journey and if you don't feel that you should not do it, it's something that yes, the work is the reward, the journey is the reward. That's an important message I learned because even if you win, I won, I won the world championship titles, I won shows, I won overalls and still the journey was the reward. And not the win. Like I said, I'm biased. That's how my head works. Maybe for some people winning is the most rewarding thing ever and they can do it just for that moment, but for me, it wasn't the case.

[Steve]

I really appreciate that perspective coming as someone who has won the number of shows I could count on. I don't even need one hand, I need a couple of fingers. I think I've only won a couple of times, actually been the best in a lineup. So I certainly haven't experienced much winning. So the only way I continue to keep going was was that knowledge of. I just love this journey. Like, I love what I'm going through, I love who I'm becoming, I love what I'm learning. The kind of discipline and kind of the. The other elements it's given me to the character development and the skill sets. It's given me to push through hard things in other areas of life. And I don't think I could be here and like with. Even in the business. Obviously it's very bodybuilding specific, but have got to the size and the platform even to like weekly podcast episodes for 10 years. Like over 400 episodes. Like, I just don't miss because bodybuilding, like, I have the bodybuilding to thank for that consistency and structure. So I really appreciate hearing from someone who is like one of the best in the world also saying, like, hey, you know what, guys? Winning isn't really like, it's not that big a deal. So I think more people listening will be able to relate to that than someone who is like, yeah, I just do this to win. Like winning is everything that's like, I chase that high every time. So I love, love that you feel like actually whilst. And I agree with you in the moments, like I was ecstatic about the win. It's the journey, the person you become, you reflect upon where you've come from, where you're looking to go that makes the big difference. So if people have passion for that, that's the best way to be in. Nothing more crushing than as a coach when you have your client who is devastated with a result. And I'm always like, that's fine in the moment. And I'm sure you've been there, Ramon, where you've been pissed off and devastated a result. But like, you can't hold on to that because it's so out of your hands. You can only hold onto your process and how you adhered and the dedication and work and effort that you put towards the outcome and then take Pride in that versus the outcome. Effort over the outcome, I guess.

[Ramon Limoger]

100%. 100%. And it just, like, that really broke my heart a lot of times when I saw these competitors, like, getting on stage, working so hard for that day, and then being disappointed afterwards, like, quitting strength training, quitting bodybuilding, because they feel like it's not what they want, they want to do because they attached so much to that, to that day, that day X, that show day, and what they get out of it. And I mean, something we just need to be very realistic about as well. Natural bodybuilding is just a very niche, niche, niche, niche sport. And I mean, maybe it's something different if you're competing for the Olympia or you're competing in Formula one or soccer. Like, it's just a bigger scale of an event and you actually profit from it way more. And in actual bodybuilding, unfortunately, that's just not really the case. And yes, that's also something or the reality. And also. So from like a social media perspective or a coaching perspective, yes, the two world championship titles are cool, but I don't think that they make that big of a difference in coaching or social media. Like, yes, for sure they do, but it's not worth it to go through all of that if you just want to do it for that. Like, I want the credibility. I want to be a good bodybuilder. You will never become a good bodybuilder if you just do it for the credentials.

[Steve]

Yeah, for sure. No, I totally agree. I think if, like, take you documenting the journey and your process and everything you've gone through and getting to a physique that could win a world title, that person is going to have a bigger following, more social media, better business than the person that has everything. But they don't document any of you, they don't share it, and then they just win the title. It's like, well, that's not, that's not going to give you anything or even if you came second, second. But you documented it all. You talked about the process, your journey, your lessons, and how, like, giving value and information to other people, that's. That's what's going to kind of drive your business. Same way, like, I think even it's happening with, like, the IFBB Pro card, which is like the creme de la creme. Right. I think people are even now seeing that, where it's like, people don't even take that all that seriously. It doesn't mean all that much anymore, even any credentials, actually, like a Ph.D. now, you have people with PhDs with which I feel like I can't really say this because I don't have one, but who aren't that credible, who are spouting misinformation. It's like, well, like, these things matter so much less in this day and age where information is so widely available and you can become an expert without any credentials, or you can have a great physique without stepping on stage and getting anything there. On that note, actually, I imagine being as prolific as you are on social media, with as crazy a physique as you have, and even from a young age, a very impressive physique. Like, I'm sure there's a lot of people that have been like, ramon, there's no way in hell you're natural. How does that make you feel? Do you get those accusations often? How do you tend to deal with it? What's your mindset surrounding it?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, I mean, I still get them a lot. Always when I upload something from a. Or prep file or anything. It's always. It's always the same thing, like, no way this is natural. I mean, I think in our bubble, in our space, we accept for sure that my physique is natural and nobody doubts it. I mean, there are people who are way better than I am. But as soon as you have things that go viral and go out of that space, you always get these acquisitions or accusations. For me, honestly, they don't really bother me at all anymore. I just see it as a cool compliment and just a funny thing to watch that, like, how that bar of what is possible, natural just changes from year to year. I feel like now, at the moment, it's like rock bottom. People feel like it's not possible to have abs or be lean without steroids. Yeah. So I just find that very interesting to watch and see.

[Steve]

I think that was one of your biggest whys for your bodybuilding journey, was to share what was achievable naturally. I guess that's kind of changed a little bit. Like, you won't be sharing that message as much, or will you be doing it just differently? Like, it's a refined message. Like, I got to this naturally, and also now I can do all this other fun stuff with my physique where it's like, quote, unquote, functional, if you want to use that terminology. I know it's not quite right.

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, that was the message for me when I. When I competed. I want to just motivate people to, like, stay natural. And I still can 100% stand behind that I think the message right now I'm trying to share is like what it takes to look good, feel good and be healthy. Like I always say, I'm a life athlete now, which means I'm training for life. I'm not training for a competition, which still means for me I want to look incredible, but I want to maximize how good I feel and how healthy I am. And I want to share this journey and, and share what's needed to get there with having the knowledge I have from bodybuilding and competing at an elite level, but making it more attainable for normal people, like dosing what we learned right for normal people, like taking these very effective methods we as top coaches and top bodybuilders have, have but dosing them right for people who might not have that high of ambitions. Because the problem is most people who don't have high ambitions are training with stupid methods. But actually they need the biggest leverage on their time because they are not ready to invest as much. So I'm just trying to leverage the investment people are ready to make into the sport as much as possible with what I learned from the years competing and coaching also. Bodybuilder. Yes, that's, that's, that's the goal and I call that being a life athlete now.

[Steve]

Cool. Yeah, I love that.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yeah.

[Steve]

I think a lot of people think, oh, to get in shape I have to do all these extreme things. I remember when I was a weird vivid memory of being, when I was a one on one personal trainer, I had a woman that I was, or actually it was a girl I was coaching and she was like, Steve, I just don't like chicken and I don't like peanut butter and I know I have to eat these things to get in shape. I'm like, no, you don't. Even then I Knew back in 2014 this was flexible dieting and if it fits your macros was just growing in popular clarity. And it's like, no, these are the bodybuilding foods. But it's like people at that, like there's people that really do think that way still. And we both know that law of Pareto really applies where it's like, well, 20 of your efforts drives 80 of the results. You don't have to go into this other 80 that us extreme bodybuilders like live our life with because the same principles apply. Like you said, it's just dosing. You don't have to take it anywhere to the same extreme, but the same habits, the structure, taking care of like energy, balance, step counts, these sort of things, they're all going to be super beneficial for that person. So that's really cool that that's kind of the trajectory that you're going on. I'd be remiss. I think you. Oh, sorry.

[Ramon Limoger]

Go for it to, to add one point. Like, to be honest for myself, I want to like push it to the extreme and see, see what's possible. I, I'm gonna see what the future holds, but like, I'm not done with like maximizing my body. I, I feel that I have other areas as well while maintaining that physique. So I'm not quite sure where it's going to take me, but I'm pretty confident that I will not myself do a balanced approach. I want to max it, but that's the new message I want to preach.

[Steve]

Do you know Sam Okanola?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, yes, I do. He's very cool. I met him 2019 at Worlds. He competed there.

[Steve]

Yeah, I'd have to. I'll probably have to get him on at some point because he's done not the same transition as you, but he's like running marathons in a contest prep and competing as a pro and still doing pretty well. And obviously he wasn't at his best. As we've discussed, it's hard to be like your absolute best as bodybuilder if you're tagging along like a marathon running at the same time.

[Ramon Limoger]

That's incredible.

[Steve]

Yeah. So I can see you going down a similar trajectory and yeah, maybe I don't need to. I don't want to watch too much of content because it'll start making me be like, oh, I reckon I could be a good runner alongside and. But like you said, I need like every duck in a row to be able to gain that little bit more muscle. So right now for me, that's the journey I'm excited about. And I think from our chat at least what is really important, aside from being very aware of what you're putting your body through and kind of getting into those reduced energy deficit symptoms and the fact that there's post show recovery too, where you're not going to feel 100% that new competitors should understand. I think a big take home for any current competitors or new competitors that I've got from you today, Ramon, is you should have a really good why and for when you first started that first season, second season, and even this past 2024 season, you had a strong why the fire was you knew why you were getting into what you were doing. But it sounds like art now that why is kind of dwindled. The strong passion for bodybuilding has. And if people are feeling that I would encourage them them to lean into that versus if you were to continue to try and bat your head against like a brick wall doing everything for bodybuilding, I think you'd probably just burn out. And you might be that person that you said you took to stage. They're disappointed and they give up weight training altogether. Is that fair to say? Like that why is a big message for you or that's something that you've learned?

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes, 100%. And also being ready to like listen to these thoughts because they can be very scary. Like in the beginning I just identified them as being weird, weak. Like if you're an athlete, you're very disciplined, you just hear these voices and you're just like, you want to get, you want to run, like who the fuck are you? Like, and also like if you are a very competitive bodybuilder, I mean maybe you don't see that in my perspective, but like I was also low key judging people who like made that transition. Like I was like seeing these people and thinking like, ah, he's getting soft, like he doesn't want to compete anymore. Like he's, and he's into running now, he's into his identity crisis. Like he's not one of the hard guys who are still doing bodybuilding, who are very hardcore and you're, you're always most afraid of what you're actually touching yourself or what you're trudging other people on. So that was for me a very big step, like to accept these thoughts because I had to make that reflection for myself as well that I was judging these people for doing that. So at the end of the day I was judging myself as well. And that's why I probably had so much fear around that topic. But I think it's important to have these thoughts and letting them in. I mean you were now super understanding of that and I would have maybe said the same, but a voice in my head would have also charged the other people for like being weak. Yes, yes.

[Steve]

Thank you for being so honest and so mature to have that self reflection of yourself because totally. And I'm sure I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but at least been times where I've done that myself, seen other people doing things where I'm just like not putting myself in their shoes. I can't, I don't know what's going on in their world, but I'll be Judging them for an action that they've taken because, I don't know, it doesn't align with what I think. And like you said, it does normally come from. It's like when people accuse you of steroids, right. It's like, it's really because they're small and they've tried a little bit and they just haven't got to where you have. They haven't put the time and investment in. It's like their own insecurity is coming out. So, yeah, the. To be able to reflect on that and hold on to that and be past it now is great. And I would be remiss, Ramon, not ask you this question. I think you've hinted on it a little bit, but you would you say you've officially retired? Have you hung up your bodybuilding trunks or do you still hold onto this chance that, hey, in future it might be that I get that flame back?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, I can't imagine myself stepping on stage at the moment, but I'm, as an example, still very, like, aware about my natty card. So I'm not going into peptides or taking anything that could compromise my Nnedi state. So if we are completely honest like that, I still, I'm still keeping that track open so I'm able to walk it in the future if I want to. So I would say I'm retired, but I would not say, like, I will never, ever, ever step on stage again. I can see myself maybe like with. In 10 years, I would be 35, like doing an arc of like strength training again, building muscle or. And then doing a prep again just to. But out of pure enjoyment, like, just if I feel the pull to do it again, I would do it, but I will never, ever force myself to prep again.

[Steve]

Yeah, no, I think that's so well said and I think you being aware of. Yeah, again, because they're all over the place, these sort of various things that people think are natural. It's like I actually know they might not even be on the wider band

[Ramon Limoger]

list, but I think I'm not taking any of these, even if they are not banned. Like, I don't want to do any injections, I don't want to take. Take anything that could be possibly be banned. So I'm still very, very aware of that.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, I don't know, you tend to get two types of natural. The type of natural that takes everything under the sun to try and see if it has any benefit or you get the ones who are just like, man, Supplements, they're not really going to do that. Well you probably at first when you get into the gym you think supplements are going to do something, but then you realize you mature. It's like a very small thing if not negative. So don't take that much.

[Ramon Limoger]

To be honest, I, I changed my opinion on that a bit. In terms of like supplements I was completely that person. Like I was even like rarely taking my omegas or vitamin Ds. Like I was just like, I don't feel any difference. I was maybe taking the creatine and everything else. Like fuck that. But like when I got deeper into blood work and I also started to work with Dom Kousas, my, my mental mentor and we just went through client case after client case together and he really showed me the magic of like customized supplementation. It really makes a difference in my opinion. And I was able to like solve very cool problems with only supplements. So that's. I know it's not really the topic we're discussing, we are discussing today, but that's something. I changed my opinion kind of because I was totally that guy. Like totally the. I'm not even taking my omega because they. I don't feel a difference.

[Steve]

Yeah, I think that's a good actually caveat I guess when I think about supplements and actually I probably need to change my wording around this because I do agree with you where like supplements are seen as the last thing in that nutritional hierarchy. But if you are vitamin D deficient or if you're deficient in any of those like vital minerals, like you could have the most well rounded diet but if you're not getting out in sunlight or you're completely covered all the time, like that's going to be a problem for you. So yeah, I think, yeah, that's actually an interesting discussion because I agree there are some really important key ones that if you bring up to normal it's going to help a lot.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes. And also like if you have specific problems like gut issues or things like that, supplements can be very, very powerful.

[Steve]

And yeah, I think it's like you said the targeted.

[Ramon Limoger]

Yes.

[Steve]

It's the, it's just the people that I don't know, they take every like slight evidence on a new supplement that maybe is going to boost their testosterone this small amount. It's like ah, guys, they start injecting like injectable carnitine is one of the ones I think that's not banned. But I'm just like man, when you start injecting stuff like I'm for fat loss for health. Kind of like these things. It's a bit of a different discussion, I think. But Ramon, we won't get into that. Like that's a whole different discussion probably for now, but interesting nonetheless. And thank you so much for your time, Ramon. This has been great. If people want to keep up to date with the new kind of lifelong athlete journey that you're going through or kind of dig into some of your content, where should they be heading?

[Ramon Limoger]

I mean, on Instagram, just Ramon underline Limoger. You will find me there. If you want to look at my prep series, you can watch that on the YouTube Ramon Limoger as well. Yes, but I'm mainly on Instagram, so if you want to see my content, you need to check out Instagram.

[Steve]

Yes, fantastic. Thank you so much for your time, man. It's been great discussing this with you and I'll make sure your socials are linked in the description. Thank you guys for tuning in. We'll catch you in the next episode.

[Ramon Limoger]

Thank you very much.

[Steve]

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