Want a Healthier America? Cancel Student Loan Debts

Summary

The Revolutions Within Us
Ep: Want a Healthier America? Cancel Student Loan Debts
Host: Dr. Shamard Charles
Date: March 22, 2021

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Episode Overview

In this deeply impactful episode, Dr. Shamard Charles takes a no-holds-barred look at the crushing impact of student loan debt in the United States, especially on Black Americans. Weaving together statistics, personal stories, social critique, and sharp humor, Dr. Charles argues that student loan cancellation is not only an economic or education issue—but a matter of public health and racial justice. The conversation explores the origins and scale of the debt crisis, its specific impact on Black borrowers, and offers a passionate call for systemic change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scope and Severity of Student Loan Debt

• Student debt is pervasive and grows relentlessly:
  • Seven out of ten graduates leave college with loans ([00:48]).
  • Total student debt in America surpasses $1 trillion—bigger than credit card or auto loan debt ([00:48]).
  • Student debt is described humorously but truthfully as being like HPV: "If you go to college, you're almost certainly going to get it. And if you do, it will follow you for the rest of your life." ([00:48])
• Debt is inescapable:
  • Student loans are "the most collectible kind of debt there is. It is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. They will sue you in court." ([01:44])
  • "They'll steal your wallet. They'll pawn your baby shoes. They will shrink themselves down to 2 inches high, hide in your pocket, and take that money back one dime at a time." ([01:56], quoting John Oliver for satirical effect.)

2. The Myth of Meritocracy and the American Dream

• Many, especially first-generation and low-income students, are sold the belief that college is the only path to freedom or financial security—what Dr. Charles calls "bullshit" and "the American dream myth" ([02:07]).
• "If you feel triggered, welcome to being Black in America, where we are lied to literally every single day. Our nation's financial aid system is failing us, and it's been failing us for a long time." ([02:07])

3. Personal Debt Stories: Long-Term Struggle

• Scott Rennie:
  • Had $80k in loans in 2006; 15 years later, after never missing a payment and maintaining an 800+ credit score, he still owes $68k ([03:31]).
• Saeeda Shabaz:
  • Owes upwards of $100k in debt twelve years after graduation—one of millions burdened by the system ([03:43], [03:46]).

4. Racial Disparities and Compounding Financial Barriers

• Startling statistics reveal systemic inequity:
  • 86.6% of Black students take out loans to attend four-year colleges vs. 59.9% of white students ([05:09]).
  • After four years, Black undergraduates owe almost twice as much on average—$53,000 ([05:21]).
  • For graduate school, Black students borrow $25,000 more than their white peers ([05:39]).
  • Black students often earn less after graduation, deepening issues of repayment ([05:46]).
• "We are running the treadmill like fucking hamsters." ([06:00])

5. Lack of Financial Literacy and Transparency

• Colleges rarely explain compound interest, consequences of defaulting, or the long-term effects of borrowing ([06:26]).
• Financial strain contributes to mental health issues—stress, anxiety, and depression ([07:08]).
• "Borrowers struggle to keep up with payments and other obligations while also navigating complex work environments for the first time." ([07:12])

6. Life Choices and Delayed Milestones

• The mounting debt crisis forces many to delay or forego typical life steps:
  • 21% delay marriage, 26% delay having children, and 36% delay buying homes ([08:16], [08:21]).
  • "We get a late head start on life. And the most important thing that we can ever do is live. So if you're saddled with student loans, I strongly encourage you to start living your life, because the data says that you’re not." ([07:59])

7. Connection to Public Health and the Racial Wealth Gap

• "Eliminating student debt would result in significant leveling of the racial wealth gap in this country." ([09:46])
• The racial wealth gap is the #1 social determinant of health disparities such as diabetes, obesity, asthma, and heart disease ([10:13]).
• White households aged 25–40 possess 12x the average wealth of Black households—much of it linked to educational debt ([10:19]). Canceling debt would cut that disparity by more than half.

8. Political Momentum and Public Sentiment

• Surge in advocacy after COVID-19 laid bare economic and racial inequalities.
• Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders proposed $50,000 in federal student loan forgiveness, which would erase about 80% of all student debt and disproportionately benefit women and people of color ([11:28]).
• Public perception is shifting: 60% now favor outright loan forgiveness, another 22% are open to it under certain circumstances ([12:13]).

9. Policy as a Matter of Life and Death

• Student debt isn’t just an economic drag—it’s a health and survival issue for generations.
• "Cancel student loans. It’s more than an acute economic jumpstart. It’s the type of generational lift that can positively impact our economy and the lives of young people for years to come. Do the work." ([13:16])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On debt’s “stickiness”
  • “Student debt is like HPV. If you go to college, you’re almost certainly going to get it. And if you do, it will follow you for the rest of your life.” ([00:48], John Oliver segment)
• On the burden of the Black experience
  • “If you feel triggered, welcome to being Black in America, where we are lied to literally every single day.” ([02:07])
• On running in place
  • “We are running the treadmill like fucking hamsters.” ([06:00])
• On policy implications
  • “Eliminating student debt would result in significant leveling of the racial wealth gap in this country.” ([09:46])
  • “Cancel student loans. It’s more than an acute economic jumpstart. It’s the type of generational lift that can positively impact our economy and the lives of young people for years to come. Do the work.” ([13:16])
• On the urgency for systemic change
  • “Maybe that’s why it’s actually not happening. When has America ever done anything to benefit women and people of color? Let’s get real.” ([11:59])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:36–02:07 — Introduction and John Oliver’s satirical breakdown of student debt
• 02:07–03:26 — Dr. Charles on the myth of meritocracy; transition to real debt stories
• 03:26–04:05 — Personal stories (Scott Rennie and Saeeda Shabaz) illustrate the neverending nature of repayment
• 05:09–07:12 — Data deep-dive: Racial disparities in borrowing, debt load, and post-graduation earnings
• 08:16–09:12 — Impact of debt on life choices and societal milestones
• 09:46–11:28 — Health outcomes and the connection between wealth, race, and well-being
• 11:28–12:51 — Political action and shifting public opinion on forgiveness
• 13:16–13:59 — Closing arguments: Why cancellation is urgent and transformative

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Tone & Language Notes

• Unapologetic, candid, and liberally uses humor for emphasis.
• Direct calls to action—especially for Black listeners not to mortgage their future for a "dream" that might never come.
• Supports every argument with concrete data, personal stories, and cultural critique.

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Summary

Dr. Shamard Charles makes a vigorous, data-backed, and personal case for canceling student loan debt as an essential step toward economic and physical health for Black Americans and the nation as a whole. With sharp critiques of systemic inequality and heartfelt pleas for change, this episode frames student debt crisis as not just a matter of dollars, but of health and survival. Canceling this debt, he argues, is reform that cannot wait.

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For further engagement, listeners are encouraged to follow the show on Instagram (@hohthepodcast).

Transcript

[A]

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Heart Over High podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Shemar Charles. This podcast focuses on the goal of providing unique and culturally sensitive perspectives on physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health and wellness. Our goal is to provide you with the best millennial and Gen Z health news you can use. If you like this podcast, follow us on Instagram at hoh the podcast and give us a rating of 5 stars on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. Now, without further delay, let's get.

[B]

Hey y'.

[A]

All. Welcome to another episode of Hard Overhyped. Today we're talking student debt and why it's the bane of our fucking existence. Here's some information to get us started.

[C]

This week, hundreds of thousands of students started classes at colleges and universities. And one thing is increasingly clear. By the time they graduate, most students are going to be leaving with a lot more than just a tacky polyester robe and a copy of oh the Places yous'll Go that their tearful aunt got them. They'll be leaving with this. Seven of 10 graduating students left college last year in debt. The total bill due for students in America tops $1 trillion. That's right. Student debt in the US is now bigger than debt from credit cards and auto loans and is second only to mortgages. Essentially, student debt is like hpv. If you go to college, you're almost certainly going to get it. And if you do, it will follow you for the rest of your life. Because legally, student debt is a special kind of debt.

[A]

It is the most collectible kind of debt there is. It is non dischargeable in bankruptcy. They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. They, they will sue you in court.

[C]

Well, they won't stop there. They'll steal your wallet. They'll pawn your baby shoes. They will shrink themselves down to 2 inches high, hide in your pocket, and take that money back one dime at a time.

[A]

Y' all have probably figured it out now, but what you just heard is a John Oliver piece from six years ago and his diatribe on student debt still reigns. True, student debt is a fucking black hole. But taking on this risk feels almost necessary. But oftentimes, I wonder, is it really? Growing up poor or first gen in America means you were literally sold the American dream myth. This idea that education is the only key to financial freedom and that more degrees equals more money. We were even sold bigger bullshit, which is this idea of meritocracy where people are treated fairly and equally rewarded for their hard work. We know that is bullshit. Right. Which is. Well, let me tell you, all right? Not only is it bullshit, but it's one of the many lies that we have been told to. And if you feel triggered, welcome to being black in America, where we are lied to literally every single day. Our nation's financial aid system is failing us, and it's been failing us for a long time. Never before has a college degree meant so much in this highly competitive global marketplace. Yet the enormous financial barrier standing in the way of earning that degree but put many Americans, especially black Americans, behind the eight ball. Here's two stories from PBS NewsHour of people who are diligently paying off their student loan debt, but can't get out of the hole.

[B]

Scott Rennie earned a bachelor's and a master's degree. He's been paying ever since.

[A]

So in 2006, I had 80 grand of student loan debt.

[C]

It's 2021. I've never missed a student loan payment.

[A]

My credit is over 800 and I still owe $68,000.

[D]

Yellow, orange, red.

[B]

A dozen years after graduation. Saida Shabaz.

[D]

Deeper in the hole, I have upwards of $100,000 in debt at this point,

[B]

just 2 of the almost 45 million Americans saddled with student loan debt. $1.7 trillion worth more than double what's owed on credit cards. With an average load of $28,000.

[D]

We shouldn't have to take out so much money to fund an education. You know, my generation, as millennials and the generation before and generations after us, we were told that ahead and to make a name for ourselves and to have a life, was to go to college.

[A]

Hearing these stories is heartbreaking. Saeeda, you've been lied to. That's exactly what I'm gonna scream when I hear this bullshit. Our society has failed you. Our parents did the very best that they could possibly do, but they didn't know what we were in for. The cost of higher education has skyrocketed in recent decades, but average wages, especially for those at lower income levels, has not increased to match it. In fact, recent data shows that from 1987 to now, public and private university tuition costs have gone up by 150%, while minimum wage and early career salaries have gone up by 20% and 3%, respectively. That sucks, right? That's what keeps us in the fucking hole, right? This helps to explain how educational costs contribute fundamentally to our exaggerated U.S. wealth gap. And don't get me started on the fucking racial wealth gap that exists in this country and is powered by by structural Racism. This leaves black people with little disposable income to offset educational costs such as tuition, housing, meal plans, et cetera. Black Americans who aspire to use education as a vehicle for upward mobility are literally forced to take out student loans with high interest rates. You know what, let me tell you guys a stat because it's going to blow your mind. According to Business Insider, 86.6% of black students borrow federal loans to attend four year colleges, compared to federal 59.9% of white students. After four years, black undergraduates hold almost twice as much student debt as their white counterparts at $53,000. So that means black students start on average $53,000 in the hole. These statistics are even worse for black graduate students. The center for American Progress found that black students were more likely to borrow money to attend graduate school than white students, resulting in a 50% higher median debt burden than their white peers. Black graduates often have a higher amount that they need to borrow as well. Black graduate students. Federal loans are on average $25,000 higher than white graduate school students. And black graduates earn less money out of college, making it harder for them to pay off their loans. You guys are seeing this yin and this fucking yang. It just goes over and over and over. We are running the treadmill like fucking hamsters. And to make matters even worse, colleges downplay the potential long term economic and social impacts of student loan debt. Conversations about financial literacy are few and far between. And the financial minutia like compound interest and the consequences of defaulting on your loans are often not explained, or at least not explained well, leaving young borrowers in the dark about what they have truly signed up for. After graduation, black grads are left with a hefty bill. The financial strain causes stress, anxiety and depression. And borrowers who struggle to keep up with their payments and other obligations while also navigating complex work environments. For the first time, you guys can see how this just poses a huge, huge, huge issue. A huge strain on not just our lives, but our health. With the mounting debt, many young black Americans are forced to defer their career paths to are put off their dreams, like getting married or buying a home. Data shows that mounting student debt influences decisions on employment. In fact, According to a 2010 survey that was conducted by Princeton University, black college students report that they are more likely to choose a certain career path based on their ability to pay off their student loans rather than fulfilling a mission. And 21% claimed rather that they were delaying marriage or buying a home. We get a late head start on life. And the most important thing that we can ever do is live. So if you're saddled with student loans, I strongly encourage you to start living your life, because the data says that you're not. Here's some pertinent information from my colleagues at cnbc.

[E]

One of the most talked about side effects of the student debt crisis is how it's forcing borrowers to delay traditional markers of adulthood. One survey found that 21% of borrowers had delayed getting married, 26% had pushed back having kids, and and 36% had put off buying a home, forcing an entire generation of borrowers to question the opportunity cost of going to college. At the same time, advancements in technology, especially automation, is making it harder to earn a living wage without some type of college degree. Today, college graduates earn 80% more than those with just a high school diploma. College is more expensive and more important than ever before. And that dichotomy is putting students in a difficult situation. Do they risk going into crippling debt at the beginning of their adult lives in the hope that their investment turns into a career and financial stability? So what are students to do?

[A]

Ooh, ooh, pick me. I have an answer. Literally, if you guys saw me right now, I am literally waving my hand in the air. This is how passionate I am about this topic. Parents, please start saving for your kids college fund early. It is the best investment that you possibly can make. Also encourage your children to always, of course, reach for the stars while also considering the future financial impacts of their decisions. Finances is not the end all, be all, but it's certainly something that we have to pay attention to and we have to consider that in our decision making. Also really important to emphasize the importance of making the most out of your college experience. There is nothing wrong with taking a full ride to a lower ranked school or going to an hbcu. We need to normalize financial health and wellness. Being crippled by student debt has proven over and over to not be worth it. And one more thing, probably the most important thing for black people, eliminating student debt would result in significant leveling of the racial wealth gap in this country. The racial wealth gap is the number one social determinant of health that contributes to health disparities such as higher rates of diabetes, obesity, asthma and heart disease. Income is a significant contributor to good health. Wealth often determines one's proximity to access to healthcare resources, safe neighborhoods, healthy foods, reliable transportation and low pollution areas. The Roosevelt Institute, a liberal think tank based in New York, my hometown, found that white households headed by people between the ages of 25 and 40 have 12 times the amount of wealth on average than black households. So unsurprisingly, many white people enjoy better health than black people. It's not literally anything that they're doing, except that the society is literally positioned to keep them living longer. By eliminating student debt, the aforementioned ratio would just be five times the amount of wealth, and that would actually shrink. Literally our life expectancy, our morbidity and mortality rates would literally plummet if we didn't have targeted junk food marketing and other bullshit that just placed in our society to literally kill us off. By eliminating student debt, as I previously mentioned, the ratio shrinks precipitously and we live longer. It is the key, y'. All. We need to eliminate this stuff. And it's not necessarily progressive. It's just life or death. We need student debt relief and we need it now. But while we wait for that day to come, if it ever comes, really seriously consider not taking on student debt. It's not worth it. A slumping economy and the disproportionate impact of the coronavirus on black populations has helped to at least resurface discussions around the racial wealth gap. It's even prompted senators like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders to address the issue during their presidential campaigns. Both called for $50,000 of federal student debt forgiveness, which would eliminate about 80% of debt from all Americans. And it would really benefit women and people of color the most. Maybe that's why it's actually not happening. When has America ever done anything to benefit women and people of color? Lets get real. Many Americans were skeptical of robust loan forgiveness at first, but the prospect of lessening economic gaps while jump starting the economy has changed some minds. A recent survey of 1,000 people conducted by Invisibly found that 60% of people are actually in favor of outright student loan forgiveness, with an additional 22% in favor of student loan forgiveness, depending on whether it's is subsidized or unsubsidized. And the numbers in favor of loan forgiveness are obviously way higher. For people who are actually currently in debt. There is no doubt that, you know, it is much more difficult now than it's ever been to work your way through college and to pay for it afterwards. Student loan debt is literally holding back an entire generation from buying homes, starting small businesses, and saving for retirement. It is crushing the hopes and dreams of many Americans, especially black Americans. And any chance we have at becoming a healthier black America is in the hands of our federal institutions. They must, they must eliminate Student loans. So, President Joe Biden, if you are listening, you're probably not, but if you are, cancel student loans. It's more than an acute economic jumpstart. It's the type of generational lift that can positively impact our economy and the lives of young people for years to come. Do the work. Thank you all for listening. It is so amazing to have you all with me week after week. Stay safe, wear a mask and get vaccinated if possible. See you next week.

[F]

Look, hey. A lot of people got fear of making mistakes Thinking about all the criticism they'll face. I don't sleep well got a lot of shit on my plate but that same shit keeping me wake making me great Talk to the moon when nobody listen Back when I didn't have shit bro I had vision I heard every word you said it's just not hidden I wrote all of my shit down and it's non fiction that's why I hit him like an uppercut I didn't put in way too many hours to be runner up I know everybody quick to tell you get your money up and get your self love up too Cause it hit a little different when you love you not for real I wanted therapy and got a little clarity Went on sway with Dr. Phil just laugh the out of myself to make sure life is real sometime it tripped me out I don't know how to feel I think I'm desensitized Don't know how to feel is traumatized like when Bugsy died It ain't real yet. You was just on the other line. You was at my Atlanta show, bro. It never fail. When it was done, we did dinner, bro. Me, you and Shell. You was telling me what your goals is telling me I gotta write it down and stay focused. Had a couple plans we was finna put in motion. I wish I would have gave you your roses. I wish I wouldn't have cat at the times I acted like shot I could have kicked it out more often for a chip shot I wish I did. It'll be a learning lesson that I implement. Sending all my love to the infinite Sending all my love. I close my eyes just to feel the things I can't see no.

[A]

Hey, awesome. Quick ot we are at episode 25. Thank you so much for your just loyalty and tuning in every single week. You guys make the show happen and it's amazing that y' all are still here with me. I love you all. Hug someone that you love. Spread love to the world. Drink your water, stay focused and remember we got a lot of work to do. Thank you again.

[B]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.