The Rich Roll Podcast: Gregg Renfrew Is Making Counter Moves in Clean Beauty

Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Rich Roll
Guest: Gregg Renfrew (Entrepreneur, Founder of BeautyCounter/Counter)

Episode Overview

This compelling episode is a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and re-invention, as Rich Roll welcomes clean beauty pioneer Gregg Renfrew back to unpack the rise, fall, and rebirth of her company. Moving far beyond business, their conversation navigates personal identity, corporate hubris, lessons for women in entrepreneurship, and why the fight for clean consumer products—and for women’s empowerment—remains so urgent.

Major Themes & Purpose

• Navigating professional collapse and personal identity
• The tension between ego and humility in leadership
• The pitfalls of private equity takeovers for purpose-driven brands
• The shifting landscape of 'clean beauty' and consumer trust
• The power, challenges, and promise of rebuilding with integrity
• Lessons for entrepreneurs—especially women—and actionable clean beauty advice for all

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The BeautyCounter Story: Billion-Dollar Rollercoaster

[09:34–29:10]

• Early Success & Sale: Gregg built BeautyCounter into a $400+ million business, pioneering "clean beauty" before selling a majority stake to private equity firm Carlyle in 2021 for a $1B valuation.

  • "I sold it for a billion dollars. And they believe so much in me and my business model... they're gonna let me continue to really grow this business." —Gregg [13:16]

• Post-sale Struggles: Due to post-pandemic consumer shifts and leadership missteps, the business sharply declined.

  • Disconnected leadership: A new CEO marginalized Gregg, and major strategic changes (e.g., a rapid Ulta retail rollout, abrupt changes to the sales commission structure) alienated the brand’s foundational network of women sellers.
  • "Arrogance has no place in business... To ignore those who built the business and have all the institutional knowledge is just a really bad decision." —Gregg [16:37]

• Foreclosure & Redemption: The company faltered and entered foreclosure; however, in an unprecedented move, Bank of America offered Gregg an opportunity to buy back her company for a small sum.

  • "We made the crazy-ass decision to buy the company out of foreclosure within 48 hours... a sort of surreal moment." —Gregg [32:14]

2. Letting Go and Identity Transformation

[34:06–40:29] [44:22–49:56]

• The Pain of Shutdown: After repurchasing, Gregg faced the heartbreak of having to lay off almost all staff and navigate public backlash.

  • "I had to shut it down in order for it to live to see another day." —Gregg [34:06]

• Reinvention and Ego: Deep self-reflection led Gregg to let go of her identity as “CEO of BeautyCounter” and focus on rebuilding something new, for today’s consumer.

  • "I'm not good at sitting around...I started trying to focus on, what do I care about in life? ...empowering women... health and love." —Gregg [46:22]

• Letting Go of Anger: She describes the necessity of forgiving herself and others, and moving forward with humility.

  • "You have to make a decision now. Are you gonna be angry for the rest of your life, or let it go and move on? At that point, I did decide to let it go. And now I actually have no anger." —Gregg [47:40]

3. The State of Clean Beauty: Progress, Problems & Greenwashing

[52:11–56:51] [53:25–55:17]

• The Dilution of 'Clean': Gregg laments how “clean” has become a virtually meaningless label, co-opted by retailers and brands for marketing.

  • "Now the word ‘clean’ out there means absolutely nothing...I feel I have an opportunity to set a new standard." —Gregg [51:30]

• Legislative Advances & Holes:

  • The “Modernization of Cosmetics Regulation Act” (MOCRA) passed, updating a federal law for the first time since 1938, but regulatory gaps (especially with "fragrance" as a loophole) persist.
  • "Fragrance is having a huge moment right now...there are opportunities in small ways, but at the federal level everything’s at a standstill." —Gregg [54:18]

• Industry & Consumer Pressure: Suggests business coalitions and educated consumers are crucial for real change, given regulatory inaction.

4. Counter: The Rebirth and Rethink

[48:19–50:02] [67:33–76:10]

• Why "Counter"?

  • Dropping “Beauty” (from BeautyCounter) signals broader, bolder ambitions and makes men more likely to engage.
  • "This time around... not only did I have to reimagine the business model, but also we needed to go counter to what all the large box retailers have done." —Gregg [52:04]

• New Business Model:

  • Retains community-based commerce, but reworks compensation to avoid past MLM pitfalls.
  • "We're not building teams anymore...We're paying out more to the people that are doing a little bit, less to people who aren't active." —Gregg [70:06]
  • Focus on personalizing the experience for each rep—not just financial reward but advocacy, education, or community.

• Slow Trust Rebuilding:

  • "Some people came right back, others have been slower, and some maybe never will. But slowly people realize I'm walking the walk again." [68:06]

5. Lessons in Leadership, Business, & Womanhood

[77:25–100:43]

• On Emotional Leadership

  • "I'm trying to lead from a place of being calmer...a little distance from decisions. It actually makes me a better CEO." —Gregg [77:44]

• On Humility & Gratitude

  • "I've learned a lot about leading from a place of gratitude...the only business you're ever in, is the business of people." —Gregg [79:30]

• For Women Entrepreneurs:

  • "When I sit in a room with a bunch of men and I know they're underestimating me, I don't get offended...Think of yourself as an asset and dig deep." —Gregg [95:26]
  • "Don't let people overrule your gut instincts...if you're the founder and CEO, then do it." —Gregg [97:16]

• On Taking Investment & Growth:

  • "If you're going to sell the controlling interest of your company, you are letting go of a certain amount of control—know what you're signing up for." —Gregg [88:58]
  • "I'd rather build a smaller, profitable business that has optionality." —Gregg [91:08]

6. Practical Clean Beauty Advice

[105:53–108:16]

• Never List Ingredients:

  • Beware of PEGs, parabens, EDTA, and chemical sunscreen agents (like oxybenzone, avobenzone), but especially hidden fragrance chemicals (phthalates).
  • "If there's one thing you can do, shop fragrance free. That's where some of the most offensive chemicals are found." —Gregg [107:33]

• On Labels & Claims:

  • Don’t trust “natural,” “clean,” or “reef safe” without reading the actual ingredients.
  • Use resources like Environmental Working Group’s SkinDeep database.

• Simple Household Tips:

  • “Just wash your baby with water, not soap...store food in glass, not plastic...don't microwave in plastic. Take your shoes off at the door."* —Gregg [111:03]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Purpose, Power & Pain

• "I think our health is worth fighting for. I think women are worth fighting for. There's no better way to change the world than lighting a fire under the asses of a bunch of women who care." —Gregg [00:36]
• "I had to shut [my company] down in order for it to live to see another day." —Gregg [34:06]
• "You have to let something go. If you let it die, there's a chance it can be reborn." —Gregg [37:11]
• "Wrinkles aren't a problem. They're just a thing the beauty industry tells you is a problem so they can sell you product. It's all bullshit." —Gregg [61:00]

On Business & Leadership

• "Arrogance has no place in business." —Gregg [16:37]
• "If you think you're going to sell...and be in charge, you're not." —Gregg [88:58]
• "The only business you're ever in is in the business of people." —Gregg [79:30]
• "I'd rather build a smaller, profitable business that...has optionality." —Gregg [91:08]
• "Doing it is now doing this this year and next year, and the forthcoming years, and getting it right all over again." —Gregg [86:01]

On Resilience, Recovery & Realism

• "If I'm being completely honest, it's still hard that there are people that hate me or are angry with me about things I didn't actually do, and I have to just live with that." —Gregg [85:50]
• "I'm more mature and more humble and I don't take anything for granted anymore." —Gregg [113:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [09:34] – Picking up the story post-sale, rise & fall after selling to Carlyle
• [16:07] – Leadership shift, CEO clash, and organizational alienation
• [28:53] – The foreclosure and miraculous buyback
• [33:05] – Painful layoffs and emotional aftermath
• [44:42] – Decoupling identity from company and letting go of anger
• [52:11] – Industry greenwashing and current state of “clean” standards
• [54:18] – Legislative progress and what’s still lacking
• [67:33] – Slowly rebuilding trust with former sales force & customers
• [74:40] – Why Gregg retains a direct sales/community model
• [77:25] – Primary business & leadership lessons learned
• [95:10] – Advice for female entrepreneurs on confidence and gut instinct
• [105:53] – The “Never List” and practical ingredient safety advice
• [111:03] – Small, daily actions for safer living
• [111:41] – Reflections: "Has it been worth it?"

Final Takeaways

• “Clean” beauty is now nearly a meaningless term, but its underlying importance is greater than ever. True transparency and standards remain rare.
• Resilience in leadership means letting go, learning from mistakes, and daring to reinvent oneself and one’s business.
• Community, honesty, and mission-driven work are deeper moats than mere claims of “purpose” or investment dollars.
• Women, in business especially, must see their differences as assets, trust their instincts, and demand respect.
• For consumers: distrust marketing labels, learn to decode ingredients, and make safer incremental choices.

To learn more or shop: counter.com

This summary captures the full arc of Gregg Renfrew’s extraordinary journey through triumph, collapse, and rebirth—offering hard-earned wisdom on business, leadership, and conscious consumerism for everyone striving to live and lead with integrity.