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The Rich Roll Podcast
Introducing Feel Better, Live More: The Secret To A Happy Life With Eliud Kipchoge (The World’s Fastest Man)
01:47:43
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- [00:01]
A
I'm super proud to announce my next venture, Voicing Change Media. This beautiful consortium of thinkers, storytellers, artists and visionaries all committed to fostering meaningful exchanges and sharing thought provoking content. Voicing Change Media will feature shows like Soul Boom with Rainnnnnn Wilson, Mentor Buffet with Alexi Pappas, Feel Better live more with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and the Proof with Simon Hill. You can explore this network and all its offerings at VoicingChange Media. Hey everybody.
- [00:38]
B
Welcome to the podcast.
- [00:39]
A
You guys are in for a treat because my good friend, the good doctor, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is in the house. Longtime listeners know Rangan well. He's been on the show, I think four times, but not since before the pandemic. It's been a couple years, but Rangan, for those who are new, maybe you. I'll let you give your bio. But Rangan's here because he has an amazing podcast called Feel Better Live More. He's part of the Voicing Change family and we're gonna introduce you to his show by sharing one of my favorite episodes of his show and I think maybe of yours, I don't know.
- [01:15]
B
Yeah, it's definitely one of my favorites.
- [01:17]
A
Pinned down, but maybe share a little bit about who you are, what your background is and your show.
- [01:23]
B
Yeah. So I am a medical doctor. I qualified from Edinburgh Medical school back in 2001 and my career has been on somewhat of an evolution ever since. I don't think what I am doing today is what I thought I'd be doing when I left and stepped out of Edinburgh Medical School for the last time. Because today I'm a podcaster like you. I'm an author. Yes, I'm a doctor. I teach doctors. But really, in essence, I think what's evolved over my career is this understanding that it's our collective modern lifestyles, how we live, but also how we think that impacts the quality of our lives. It impacts our health, yes, but it also impacts our happiness and our relationships. And I've gone through many iterations throughout my career of being slightly frustrated in medicine and feeling that a lot of what we have to do is to suppress symptoms with drugs. I threw a few personal experiences with my son and my father. I really got more and more passionate about the idea that lifestyle can be our best medicine if we know what to work on. And that led to me back in 2015, I think it's almost 10 years now, maybe it's 2014. I got my own primetime television series in the UK called Doctor in the House. That got shown to 5 million people a week in the UK and has gone to 70 countries around the world. It's still probably the proudest. It's still probably the things that I look back on and go, yeah, that was pretty incredible what I managed to show the British public and people around the world through that series. I think now, on reflection, that show was ahead of its time. I think if it landed today, it would land in a completely different way. I think back then what I was doing was deemed a little bit what's going on here? And I'll give you an example on that ship.
- [03:20]
A
You mean like woo woo?
- [03:21]
B
I wouldn't say woo woo, but, you know, basically, Doctor in the House was where I went to live alongside families who were sick, right? They were under GPS and specialists. They usually had a diagnosis and they were on medication usually. But they applied to go on the show because they couldn't get better. And so the whole premise is that the doctor goes into their house and so for four to six weeks, I spend time with these guys and I helped a lady put her type 2 diabetes into remission in 30 days. I helped another lady with panic attacks, reduced them by 70 to 80% in just six weeks. I helped a lady with severe pains, with fibromyalgia, ibs, depression. I helped her become pain free for the first time in 10 years. I helped her become pain free in six weeks. I helped a lady with menopausal symptoms without the use of hormones get almost completely better. But the incredible thing was that I did it all with nutrition and lifestyle and mindset. It was using no pharmaceutical drugs. And so when I say that, that was a bit ahead of its time. I remember when the episode, one of the first episodes was me helping her reverse her type 2 diabetes in 30 days back in 2014, Rich, that wasn't common knowledge. You know, there was a bit of pushback online saying this is an irreversible disease, it's a chronic progressive disease. This is not true. Don't get me wrong. There was mostly great feedback, but it was my first. It was my first interactions with social media and I very quickly had to learn how to deal with negativity, which I did find really hard back then, if I'm completely honest. But today, 10 years on, it is widely accepted that type 2 diabetes can be put into remission. So that series was really quite profound for me in so many ways that I've only really appreciated. Even in the last two, three years, even in writing this new book, I've gone, why Do I have such a different perspective on health than so many doctors? I think my cultural upbringing, you know, being in an Indian family, where we understand or we get infused with the idea that food is medicine from a young age, that if you're sick, your mum actually puts extra turmeric in your curry, or if you've got a sore throat, she'll make honey and grated ginger and turmeric. Like, you grow up with this idea that food is medicine, and then you don't get taught that in medical school. So there's a slight conflict. But then also most doctors, even if they are practicing in a more holistic way and may get one hour with their patient, let's say they still won't see what I got to see. I got to see how every single input in these families lives impacted their health. Even if I had an hour with them, they still wouldn't tell me the stuff that I saw. I'd be like, ah, could this person's symptoms be in some way related to the fact that the husband is talking to the wife? This kind of emotional stress, this relationship stress that's there, that's impacting how they feel about themselves. I got to see all of this and go, wow, Health is so much more than just what I see in the consultation room. In fact, 99% of our health outcomes basically pretty much come from outside the consultation room. Right. So these experiences, that primetime series led to me writing books, and I'm blessed to have this podcast, which has been going for seven years now. I've said this publicly. I'll say it again, Rich, you were a huge inspiration for me to actually start my show because of the way you conducted your conversations. That's what inspired me the most. This is a guy who is bringing real intentionality to each conversation. Each conversation feels like a special event. Nothing is just dialed in. The way that you dress it up and put it online and the audio quality, all these things were like, oh, that's the kind of show I want right now. I think I've evolved into having my own style now. But definitely you inspired me massively to have the confidence to go long as well. Because in the uk, back then, people were saying to me, your show should only be 40 minutes. That's the length of the average commute. So my first six shows were 40 minutes. I mean, I haven't listened to them. I'm not sure I could put myself through that.
- [07:42]
A
Well, no one should go back and listen to the first. Anyone who's been doing this thing should go Back and listen to the beginning. But I think, I mean, first of all, thank you. And I think what you've built is really potent and powerful. There's a reason why it's the number one health podcast in the uk. Not only is it the number, I mean, you're in like the top 5 to 10 of all podcasts in the UK. Like, what you've built is incredibly powerful. It's reaching millions of people and not just reaching them, like really impacting them in meaningful ways. And so I love not only what you do, but, like, how you do it, because I do think that you bring a level of integrity and intentionality to, you know, this medium with your experience, and there's a reason why it's successful. And I'm really proud to be supporting you in this venture and also just to be your friend, so.
- [08:31]
B
Me too, man. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah.
- [08:33]
A
And so the idea here is like, we just wanted to introduce all of you, and by you, I mean the audience who might be new to Rangan, to what his show is. So we're going to share an episode of it. What episode are we gonna be sharing with everybody?
- [08:48]
B
Well, we're gonna share, I think, what might be one of the only long form conversations that exists with Eliud Kipchoge, the Kenyan marathon runner. The only human, to our knowledge, that has ever run a marathon in under two hours.
- [09:03]
A
I'll admit to a little bit of jealousy when I saw that you published that. I was like, damn, Rangan, how did you get him? Like, that is not a guy who's like, doing the podcast rounds. I don't think he's ever done a podcast except for yours.
- [09:15]
B
I think he's, you know, when his film came out, I think he popped him on a couple. I got offered him then, actually. But interesting enough that these were gonna be 10 minute conversations on Zoom. I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna have a 10 minute conversation on Zoom. It's not really what my show is about. It's like yours. It's long form. We wanna go deep. And so I appreciate how lucky I am. I know what it's like when you see another podcast host and they get some guests that you've been trying for years and you're like, how do they manage that? Like, I tried this and I tried that, but I didn't get a response, really. That came about through my relationship with the London Marathon and the team there. I've helped support them for a number of years, promote them. I spoke to Hugh Brashner, the kind of the head of the London Marathon on my show a few years ago, and it's again through developing good relationships with people and they knew I wanted to talk to Elliot. I didn't get much notice. I live in the northwest of England. My studio is in the northwest of England, outside of London. I'm lucky that because of the size of the show, people will travel up to my studio.
- [10:20]
A
How long does it take from London to get there by train?
- [10:22]
B
It's on a quick train, but it's still one hour and 40 minutes. It's a really nice, relaxing train with only two stops, so people really enjoy it. But really that's your day. If you're in London and coming up to mind, that's your day done. Now, most guests do come, unless it's, let's say, a top US guest who's in London for just two days and they literally can't fit it in. And if I really want to speak to them, I'll go down. But I think with about two weeks notice or maybe 10 days, someone from the London Marathon reached out and said, hey, Rongan, I know you've been trying to get Elliot for a while. We have some time with him when he's in London in like 10 days. You know, what do you think? I'm like trying not to sound overly keen. Yeah, yeah, sure, I'd love to do that. And we basically set up an interview. I was told that you don't have long. He's very, very busy. He's got lots of press engagements. And I thought, okay, look, this guy, I've always been drawn to him. I just find his manner, there's an.
- [11:22]
A
Elegance to his demeanor and his disposition. That and a gravitas and like a grace, but also like a humility. Yeah, that's rare in such a extraordinary champion.
- [11:34]
B
Yeah. And I thought, I have to do this. I really want to do this. And I, you know, I remember sitting with my children for his first sub 2 hour events. My wife was away. We were watching it early morning in the uk. He didn't make it. We saw it the Nets and we watched it together. So it's a kind of family thing for us as well. Like, we talk about Kipchoge a lot.
- [11:52]
A
Your kids are fans, My kids are fans.
- [11:54]
B
Yeah. So what happened is that I thought, okay, it's a weekend. Why don't we all go down for the weekends, stay in a hotel in London. I was interviewing him on the Sunday morning of the marathon. He was gonna like, I think, start the race or something. So I think I was told it has to be in this hotel room at 8am or in this hotel where he's staying. It cannot be anywhere else.
- [12:14]
A
He wasn't running, he was starting. Like announcing the start, you mean?
- [12:17]
B
I think so. He had run the week before in Berlin and that's when he got the world record, literally.
- [12:22]
A
So he was literally a week off of setting the world record when you met up with him.
- [12:27]
B
Exactly. So a very fortunate time to have him. And what's really interesting is that my kids said, daddy, can we meet? Elliot and the team were amazing, but they were like, they didn't say I couldn't bring my kids, but they were like, we've only got this time. You don't get longer. He has to run out straight away. So obviously I knew in which room we were recording because my cameraman, Gareth came down and he set up and he really tried to make it look beautiful. I said, mate, we, we've got to make this look good. I think this is the only long form conversation with Elliot that I've seen. So just in honor of this individual, let's try and make it look good. So Gareth came down, he spent a whole day trying to light the room, which is, you know, it's a standard London hotel room. And then I tell you the things I remember, Rich, Elliot came in and I can get quite excited, to say the least, right? I can be quite an amped up guy sometimes. He is so calm and quiet that I started to respond to him. I started to talk quietly and slowly and it was amazing to see what power, what magnetism can exist with another human being. Like, their energy starts to change the energy of the people around them, which I found really profound. So we have this conversation. I had told my kids that morning we were staying in a different hotel. I said, guys, if you want to meet Elliot, I don't know, like, it's hard with the team being really precise on times. And I said, guys, I'm recording in this room, in this hotel. I said to my wife, make sure you and the kids are outside the door 10 minutes before the end. And I gave them the time. And my wife tells me afterwards that they couldn't even get there. Like, Elliot's team were like, where are you going? Like, you know, no one can come in here. And she's like, no, no, wrong is my husband. Like. So she insisted, no one's going to stop my wife getting anywhere. So they're waiting outside the room. I finished with Elliot, I think we Go for about an hour and 15 in the end. So I managed to irk out a bit of extra time. And then one of the loveliest things that I remember was that the publicist decided, okay, yeah, great, no problem. We need to take Elliot now. My kids came in and he just stopped. He sat down, he spoke to them. His publicist is trying to move him on. He's just sitting there. My son takes his T shirt off. Elliot writes a handwritten message, signs it for him, gives it him back. I have seen Rich, maybe like you, I've seen people on the mic and off the mic, and it ain't always the same thing. And what I realized that day was that Elliot is the same person on and off the mic. He was gentle, he was calm, he was present. He was so lovely with my children. He gave them gifts. He said, anything else you want? He went and asked them if it was PR to get something. He signed it for them. Another thing I've reflected on since that is that I've spoken to Eli Kipchoge on my podcast. I've also, like you, spoken to Kylian Jornay. And I've always thought it's incredible that two of the humblest people I've ever met on my show, I would say, are Elliot and Cillian. And I always thought, this is so interesting. Why is that? Is it because their sports are in nature? They see the magnitude of existence. Like, you know, you don't see that as much with football in the UK or, let's say, basketball, where we can often see ego attached to someone's fame and their success. I didn't get a hint of ego from either Kylian Jornay or from Elliot. And that is something I think a lot about. But it was a beautiful conversation with a quite beautiful man.
- [15:54]
A
It's so cool, man. I love it. That's a great story. And what an extraordinary human being to be able to, like, share space with. And it's always cool when it's somebody who is so accomplished and fascinating, but isn't kind of like doing the podcast, like, there's a specialness to it.
- [16:12]
B
Right.
- [16:12]
A
Cause, you know, like, this guy's not going next door right after you to go somewhere else. Like, this is a very, like, kind of special moment in time.
- [16:20]
B
Yeah. And I feel lucky. And the truth is, you know what? It's like, we're not always gonna get the guests that we want, and sometimes those guests appear on other shows, and that's just the way of the world. I feel that, yeah, for Whatever reason, karma, the universe, whatever. For some reason that happened for me. And, you know, it's still. It's like, pinch me when Elliot sends me a DM on something or he'll comment on something on my Instagram and I'm like, oh, that's Athena Kipchoge. Do you know what I mean? It is nice, but I kind of. I feel we built up a rapport that day, which of course is what we do when we have these conversations.
- [16:55]
A
When you have these experiences, you know, we're always striving to create something meaningful and that comes with authenticity and intentionality and true curiosity, I think, you know, to try to create something authentic. So, anyway, I love it. I can't wait for all of you, the audience, to hear or watch what's about to follow. Rangan, thank you for being a member of the Voicing Change family, for being a friend. His podcast is fantastic. Feel better Live more. Available on YouTube, wherever you get podcasts, Apple, Spotify, like all the places, right?
- [17:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, you know it, man.
- [17:31]
A
All right, then. Cheers. Cool. Enjoy, everybody.
- [17:34]
B
Peace.
- [17:40]
C
I'm not a believer of success. I believe in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning. We should live by it, sleep by it, run by it, relax by it, walk by it. You need to have the right system. You cannot sit and wait for success. You need to do it.
- [18:01]
B
Hey, guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better Live More. Today's guest is someone who I've been trying to set up a face to face conversation with for around two years. And a couple of weekends ago, it finally happened. Eliud Kipchoge is a Kenyan athlete who's widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. He's won two successive Olympic marathons, 10 major titles. And of course, he's the only man to have ever run a marathon in under two hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part of the 1:59 challenge. This was an incredible achievement for humanity, but was not recognised as an official world record because it was not an open competition and he used a team of rotating pacemakers. Now, our conversation took place in London on the weekend of the 2022 London Marathon, exactly seven days after he had once again broken the official marathon world records in Berlin. Now, I want to be really clear at the start of this episode, this is a conversation for everyone. Whether you are a runner or not. I think you're going to find Elliot's insights highly relevant and applicable in your own life. One of the main reasons I wanted to talk to Elliot was not actually because of his running ability. It's because I've always been fascinated by the energy that this man radiates. He has a calmness, a humility, a modesty and a complete lack of ego which I and millions of others around the world find ourselves drawn to. In our conversation we cover many different topics. We talk about reflection and why in this tech heavy world he still keeps a handwritten training journal. We talk about success and why he doesn't actually believe in success, which I think is remarkable for a man who has achieved so much of it. We discuss why he always does his runs as part of a community, why he smiles in the latter parts of a marathon, how he manages to stay injury free, and what he really thinks about retirement. But for me, one of the most insightful parts of this conversation is hearing Elliot talk about self discipline and why he feels that this is one of the most important skills that we can develop. Elliot is probably best known for the phrase no human is limited. And hearing him explain what this means to him really brings to life the idea that it's self discipline that will help you reach your own potential. This really was a special conversation with an incredible man. I hope you enjoy listening. And now my conversation with the one and only Elliot Kipchoge. As we're having this conversation, it's pretty much exactly seven days almost to the minute where you were running in Berlin and when you broke the marathon world record again. How's the last week been for you?
- [21:23]
C
Last week actually was. Sunday was great day. I broke a world record. But from Sunday afternoon it's been a little bit busy walking up and down, doing some sponsor stuff and making sure actually everybody is happy. Before I fly back to Kenya.
- [21:40]
B
Yeah. Looking forward to going home, I'm sure.
- [21:43]
C
Absolutely. Yes.
- [21:44]
B
Yeah. Obviously you've done many interviews since you broke the world record. We've watched many of them on television or on the Internet. What's it like for you though, when you're not in public? So last Sunday, for example, what's it like for you when you're in your hotel room at night and you go to sleep? What is it like in those private moments for you.
- [22:09]
C
When I am actually in the hotel room alone? I think it's a crucial time for me to audit myself, internalize what has happened that day and actually try to to go back what has been happening for the last four months and actually appreciate what we have been Doing actually for four months, we just reap the good fruits on that day. So it's internalizing and accepting and just making your mind really calm that it has happened and tomorrow is another day.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah. Many people struggle to keep their minds calm. Big things may happen in their life at work or with their family or pressure, and they really struggle to calm their mind. You seem to be someone who has a very Zen approach to life. A very calm approach. How do you manage to calm your mind when you've achieved something so huge?
- [23:17]
C
I am a believer of some philosophies. I'll give an example. I am a believer of a philosophy whereby if you are going up the tree, you are stepping on the branches of a tree. And immediately when you actually you grab a branch, you test the branch. If it's strong enough to hold your weight, and if strong enough to hold you away, then you cohab immediately you stepped on the branch. Then you aim for the next branch. Then you have already actually caught this branch. You forget the branch, you wait for the next one. Cut the crap. The next one. Test equally with us. Enough. The branch itself has enough muscles to hold. You await. Then you go up. What I'm trying to say is this violin marathon was a branch. I worked for that branch for four to five months. And last week, on Sunday, on 25th, I got a branch.
- [24:25]
B
Yeah.
- [24:26]
C
After getting the branch, actually. What else? I've got a branch. I need to aim for the next one. So just forget it, aim for the next one. Because that's how I believed in that philosophy. The philosophy actually helped me to know that in life, every day is a challenge. Every day is a challenge. You know, you are in a lobby actually with somebody on 26th at 10 in the morning. And I told that person that, you know, you see now the organizer of the Berlin is thinking of next year.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah.
- [25:08]
C
So Berlin Marathon 2022 is already out.
- [25:11]
B
Yeah. It's really inspiring. Is that an approach you've always had to life, even as a child, or is it something you've learned through your career?
- [25:21]
C
It's something I learned through my career. I have grown enough in the career, close to 20 years in and running. And I know a lot. I know what can actually knock you out and what can actually uplift you. What can make you actually to be a real person.
- [25:38]
B
Yeah. When you're about to embark on something like last Sunday, the Berlin Marathon, do you know beforehand that I'm going to try and break a world record today? Is that already in your mind or I guess there must Be things you train for four or five months, but you can't control the weather. For example, you know, many of us who run at weekends, let's say some days we're not feeling it. You know, our legs don't feel as though they've got the energy or we don't have the mindset. So I'm really interested for you. When you have done so much training to build up for one race where the world is watching, do you have a strategy in your head that today I'm going for the world record.
- [26:24]
C
I'll start by saying that I don't actually. I'm not a believer of success. But first thing, I don't believe in success. But I believe in good preparation and planning, which can bring success. That means within actually the five months, if I don't work hard, I will not be successful. But if I got well planned, well prepared, then I'm sure of success. What I'm trying to say is this. For four months, I am really training, eating the targets for over 80% is that I feel I'm really comfortable in my body, my legs are good. Then actually one day to go, then I. I start to audit what I've been doing. If what I've been doing actually went well as I expected, then the next day, I'm ready for the next day. Anything might happen. If the rain comes in, if it's too hot, or if the weather is okay, then I will handle it. But I will accept the results. You know, there's actually. If you don't accept their solace, then if you want to enjoy the sport, you need to accept it out there. Be it any outcome, I will not regret.
- [27:50]
B
Acceptance seems to be a really key part of your approach to life. You mentioned of course already that the bill of marathon's gone. That's the branch. You've got the branch now you accept it and move on. Irrespective of what had happened. You also mentioned that you don't believe in success. That's really interesting to me. Does that mean, is it you don't believe in success? Or certainly when I hear you say that and describe it, is it that the success is the four months of training that's the success?
- [28:24]
C
Let me explain that when I say I don't believe in success, success is there. But you cannot sit and wait for success. Yeah, success is waiting for you to actually say, hey, just corrupt me. But rule number one, you should be prepared. Rule number two, we should be well planned. Rule number three, you should be actually capable of grabbing the Success. That's what success is. Saying success is there, I don't deny, but I believe in preparation, in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning can lead to success.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah.
- [29:15]
C
I don't think that you can actually believe that I will be successful in a marathon. And you don't follow actually the program to the leather, you know, the moment you don't, you skip one, the body will actually count on the very day.
- [29:34]
B
Yeah.
- [29:35]
C
Yes.
- [29:37]
B
It's so fascinating. What I'm hearing from you is that, yes, you happen to be a marathon runner, but you're saying that actually this approach kind of applies to all of us.
- [29:54]
C
Yes. You know, success is. You can define success in different definitions. 10 or 20 or anything you have, but at the core of everything you know, I'll give you an example that you are in class and you are last year curly examination in December and you have three months to study. If you don't start hard, if you don't actually go into a group discussion is to share what you know and somebody else can give you what he or she knows. I don't think you will actually be get the first class on us, you know, success, you can be successful in running, but you can run through 10 and it's that successful that success according to you. Yeah, you can be successful in life and you run two or five. You can be successful in life and run to one. That's different of success. You can be successful in education and you have a pass. Yeah, you can call yourself you are successful, you have credit, you can call yourself you are successful and you have distinction. So it what's success really? I think success, what I'm trying to say is the mastery of what you are doing. If you have master what you are doing, then that's success. But you need to do it. You need to have the right systems for success to come in the real right systems. The moment you lack systems, the moment you lack the positive systems within here, you will really look for it, but you will not get it. So it's good that in life you need to weigh yourself and declare that, hey, I belong here. If you are a sportsman, you really need to actually stand and say, no, I need to be successful, I belong here. It doesn't mean that people can see you are successful, you are not. People can drill stilt out, please. It's good to actually tell yourself, I need to be successful, but I need to wake up, I need to be actually doing what's right at the right time, at the right place.
- [32:11]
B
We all need our own individual definition of success, don't we?
- [32:15]
C
Absolutely. If you want to be successful, define in my own words. Yeah, yeah, in your own words, the way you understand your own language to find success in your own language.
- [32:26]
B
Because someone who's never run before, if they were to complete a 5k, if they were to build up to running 5km, that could be success for them.
- [32:37]
C
Absolutely, yes. It depends. They are building up and they have a complete 5K.
- [32:43]
B
Yeah.
- [32:43]
C
In the next three months, they are completing 10K. That's success. But you cannot wake up today and actually completed that 20km last Sunday.
- [32:59]
B
I was glued to the race and actually I want to share with you. There are three moments in my life where I have witnessed a great sporting occasion with my two children. Two of them actually involved you. One of them was when Tiger woods won the Masters in 2015. But the other two were last weekend when you broke the world record and also when you went under two hours in 1:59. I was sitting with my two children around the computer watching. It was really special moments. Now, at halfway, when we saw the splits, of course, you all know 59 something at halfway. I was feeling nervous, which is ridiculous because I'm not running. You're running and you look really relaxed. But I'm thinking, oh, man, is he going to break two hours a day? Has he gone off too fast? How aware of the time are you in that moment? What was going through your head?
- [34:02]
C
You know, what happened is that I was feeling, well, pacemakers were actually on the. On the right ship. And we crossed the halfway. We crossed the 20k and realized, hey, 1056 so fast. Then I tried to calculate to give another 2 minutes and 50 seconds. I saw it will be actually under 60. But all in all is that that was a big motivation for me, that if I am crossing actually under 60 with half, then I will not miss a world record. So I was giving myself a morale that please let me push. If I run two hours flat, well done. Good. If I missed and run a world record, that's what I need. So it was a plus on my side. It was a plus on my mind.
- [34:53]
B
Do you feel any pressure because of who you are? Because of the amount of people who look up to you and watch you? Are you aware of that pressure from the outside or is it just another race for you?
- [35:07]
C
It was a huge pressure, actually. It's a pressure from all sides. You know, on Friday, actually, I just jump in to press conference for whom? And all the channels were asking me, are you going for world record I told them, no. Who told you I'm going for world record. I'm coming here to run a good race. And if that race can be translated to be a course record or if you can call it a world record, I will appreciate. That's what I told them. But there was a lot of pressure from the channels. Everybody was expecting you can run. Then I told them, no, I'm coming for a good rest.
- [35:44]
B
Yeah, it's that approach, isn't it, that you keep talking about? It's process over outcome. It's the journey over the destination. That's what I'm hearing as I hear you speak.
- [35:54]
C
Yes, yes. You know, you cannot actually say, you know, human being is not machine. You cannot, it's. You cannot set yourself and for a certain time and run that time. No, you, you never know what will happen.
- [36:10]
B
Yeah.
- [36:11]
C
On the way. Marathon is live and all, all challenges are on the way. But always put my mind that I need to run well, I need to run certain time, try to push myself according to what I've been doing in training, thinking. You know, before you do something, you need to internalize first. Yeah, you need to internalize. You need to really put in your heart and in your mind. You need even to think and imag crossing a finishing line with the world record.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah.
- [36:40]
C
Then you will cut it. You cannot work and just rush the moment. You cut it, then you, you say thank you and. And you move on.
- [36:55]
A
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- [37:47]
B
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A
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- [38:12]
B
Will AI be our new best friend or our future overlord? Hi, I'm Baratunde Thurston, and on my.
- [38:19]
C
Podcast Life With Machines, we explore this.
- [38:22]
B
Crazy AI moment we're living in. I talk with all kinds of people.
- [38:26]
C
From folks hitting the gas pedal on this transition to those trying to pump the brakes. Watch and listen to Life with machines.
- [38:34]
B
On YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Last Sunday after the race, I went to the kitchen with my kids. We were having a late breakfast because we missed breakfast to watch you break the world record. And my 12 year old son had a question for me, which, if you don't mind, I was going to put to you. Yes, he said, daddy, Elliot was celebrating just before he got through the line. If he hadn't celebrated, do you think he would have gone one or two seconds even quicker than what he did do? So this is a child's question and I watched the video again on YouTube this morning and it certainly appeared that obviously you knew you'd broken the world records. There was a smile, there was some sort of hand celebrations, and it did appear to me that your pace slightly slowed at the end. So the question from my son is, could you have gone one or two seconds faster had you not celebrated?
- [39:41]
C
It's a very good question and I want to answer that. I already saw that I'm inside the world record. So I didn't mind actually celebrating, provided I need something called a world record.
- [40:00]
B
Yeah.
- [40:00]
C
So I was sure of a world record and decided to celebrate and got it.
- [40:07]
B
Well, huge, huge congratulations. Thank you. You know, I know you want to inspire people to run. I've heard you say that in many interviews and many conversations. And I've been thinking about inspiration recently. What is it about people like you that inspires so many of us around the world? Because, you know, I'm a doctor, okay. So I. I may dream about being an elite marathon runner, but I'm not an elite marathon runner. But I remember after that race I felt inspired. I went into the garden and I did some sprints. I got my skipping rope out and did some skipping. There was something about watching you, a fellow member of the human race, achieve something so special that really inspired me within my life to do a bit more. Why do you think that is?
- [41:05]
C
Inspiration, actually, is that I always say that life is about movement and I want to inspire people to move. All the professions, actually, be it you are engineer, a doctor, be it you are a teacher, be it you are a manager, all sorts of professions in this World for them to survive, for them to live longer is the spirit of movement. What I'm trying to say is this. If you move, that's how to earn a good life. If you move, that's how to live longer. But the only movement which is available is the less expensive movement which is running. If you run then you know, I'm trying to tell people that you can't run actually to be a record holder. But I need you to run to Akala to be fit and to live longer. That's my inspiration. That's why I always say I want to push running to be a family lifestyle. The moment all the families are crap running and actually put in in their family and call it family lifestyle, that will be great. Whereby in the morning you can see the kids and the parents just putting on shoes. Just walk around, just move. It's about movement. Just move. The world will be fruitful.
- [42:45]
B
Are you familiar with Parkrun? It's a big global movement. It started in the UK in many, many towns and villages around the UK and now in the world there's a 5k every Saturday morning and people of all abilities come, children, adults, they all get a time. But the fastest will be running in 15, 16 minutes. The slowest will maybe be an hour. But it's a big community spirit and people run together. And you know what you just said about running as a family, I'm pretty sure if Parkrun did not exist, I'm not sure my kids would be runners. Like my son loves running but I think he loves running because of Parkrun. So the way we start every weekend is me and my son, we go down to the local 5K, rain or shine, windy, cold, hot, doesn't matter. We turn up and we do a 5k. And so for me it's how we spend our family weekends together. Which I think speaks to what you're talking about.
- [43:54]
C
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. And if all of us actually, if the spirit, what you are doing in UK can go to every country in this world then actually will be far the two years actually the world will change. Yeah.
- [44:12]
B
Why did you start running?
- [44:15]
C
I started running. My neighbor was running. I wanted to run like him, which is my coach now. And the aim was of running actually and training hard was just to feel how life will be up the skies by actually getting a ticket and fly. But at long last I traveled to Europe and I realized that so sport can give me life. Sport actually can keep food to my table, to my siblings and my parents and the rest So I started to focus in a professional way.
- [44:52]
B
And did you know from the start that, hey, I'm pretty quick here, I can beat people around me, or did that come later?
- [44:59]
C
No, that one came later. No, Chiles, I just training and wanted to just perform, go to compete and actually compete with other people, get a position and come back home.
- [45:16]
B
As I talk to you, Elliot, I think back to a conversation I had a few years ago on this show with Kylian Journey. The, you know, regarded by many as the greatest mountain runner of all time. You, of course, are regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. And what really strikes me from chatting to both of you is there's a real modesty, a real humility, and I'm really interested. Why do you think that might be? And do you think there's something unique to running that kind of gives off that flavour in the people at the top of the sport?
- [46:00]
C
I think it's about understanding life and understanding what you are doing. That always when you are at the top of something and you have an ego, that's the sign of actually failure. And at the end of it, actually when you are at home and you realize that your ego is up, then you doesn't feel like you are human. So it's the way you think that you treat the world as full of a human family and eco will go away. And I trust that the moment you chase away Eco, that's the best place to really get into. Cause the best place to think. The best place actually to think with other people and respect other people. The best place actually to. To get your trainings in a good way.
- [46:54]
B
Yeah. Do you think there's something about running or running long distances that it kind of burns the ego out of you?
- [47:05]
C
I trust the long runs when you are running for long, training for long helps you to actually know how to handle suffering. And if you know how to handle suffering and pain, that's. That's what long run Saab is helping me or helping any other person. But all in all, I think it's the only way to calm your mind that, hey, what do you want again? And if something happens, then it does happen and we need to move on. You know, I don't know, I can't explain because I don't understand more as far as ICW is concerned. But I believe actually at the end of the day, you know, before you go to bed, I think everybody actually is reflecting what has happened for the whole day, that you actually affect the world in a positive way or in a negative way. For the whole day that you actually. What did you do to do anything negative or positive? That's what people actually should be asking themselves at the end of the day before you go to bed. And if you happen to actually have those thoughts, then actually you'll realize that there is no need of actually having an ego. Life is actually good when you are on the ground.
- [48:31]
B
You come across incredibly calm and Zen in your manner. And you mentioned there that running and particularly long runs is a good way to calm the mind. So I guess for me I'm thinking, were you always calm and Zen and relaxed, or do you think it's the fact that you run so much that has made you calm and relaxed?
- [48:58]
C
I think it has been my personality, but running has helped me to. To be more calmer.
- [49:06]
B
Yeah. You mentioned reflection and how important it is maybe every evening to think, you know, what have you done in the day? Have you contributed to other people? You know, have you behaved in a way that. In a manner that you wanted to behave in? And I know that you are a very keen journaler. You have a journal?
- [49:27]
C
Yes.
- [49:27]
B
And in one interview you've mentioned that your pen and your journal are two of the most important things that you possess. I wonder if you could speak to journaling. Why is it so important to you and why do you still do it by hand in an age where we have computers and technology?
- [49:46]
C
I have a lot of channels. I have a channel for training every day. I have a channel for the shoes that I am using every day. I have a channel that when I'm reading a book, I just highlight the best points. I need to put down on a notebook. I have a notebook, whereby it's a word to do in that day. I write all of them down and actually focus on the day to day. My daily programs that I need to do to rush up and down when I'm at home. So believing actually on the hand or writing actually is that I believe that they say write it and you'll remember.
- [50:33]
B
Yeah.
- [50:34]
C
So the moment you write it, you will remember. So that's why I'm still carrying around the channel. The channel. I have 90 now at home. If you happen to come to Kenya and visit me, I will show you what I was doing 2003, 2004.
- [50:47]
B
Well, I would love to. So that's every year you write down all of your running?
- [50:55]
C
Absolutely.
- [50:56]
B
Every single run.
- [50:57]
C
Every single run.
- [50:57]
B
And what are you documenting? Like what are you writing down? Like what? Distance, pain.
- [51:02]
C
I'm writing the time I cover and the distance, everything I'M doing if the ice pack massage, everything I'm putting there.
- [51:13]
B
So it helps you remember. Does it help you also when you're reviewing it, kind of see patterns or when I do this, this happens, or when I do this, I'm running quickly, that sort of thing.
- [51:26]
C
The cool thing is that, you know, if you are writing everything every day, it helps you not to miss the training. Because the moment you miss training for two days you'll just put. When you refer to your channel, you say, oh, I missed the training last week three times. I miss the training this week two times with no reason at all. So it's good actually that I really need my book to get filled. That's why I don't miss training.
- [51:58]
B
Do you do it when you wake up? Do you do it after the run? Do you do it in the evening? Or does it just depend day to day?
- [52:07]
C
When I wake up, I don't handle anything. I just wake up, cut my clothes, put on. When I wake up, I don't see, I don't handle my, my phone, I'm waking up, prepare for a run. After the run, I go back for breakfast, coming back to relax. Then I start now to my training was 20 km. Then I write actually the time I cover and the kilometers and I close the channel and start to check the phone if there is some texts or to refer or emails or anything else. But all in all, I treat myself first for other things.
- [52:49]
B
So you wake up, you get yourself ready for a run, you're not looking at your phone, you do your run. It's only after that important thing is done for you that you then get into what the rest of the world wants you to do.
- [53:03]
C
Absolutely, yeah. I always tell people that even in the camp that during breakfast actually don't bring the phone even. We set a law in our camp whereby mobile phones are not allowed in the kitchen or dining where we are eating to make people actually eat well and concentrate. Reason number one is that is to avoid these people actually to cut their phones immediately after training. So you need to cut one hour of taking shower, taking breakfast, taking care of yourself. What do you respond to the whole world? Most of them are colleagues were saying that hey, you know, emergency might be in. Then I asked them, we are out of, out of our rooms for 1 hour, 30 minutes. If any emergency happens within 1 hour, 30 minutes, we lose all of them, say no, then there is no need for actually rushing to the phone.
- [54:05]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [54:06]
C
And what has happened after has happened, you can actually bring it back.
- [54:12]
B
Yeah, I love that. So what kind of time do you normally wake up? And then, you know, I'm interested in that sort of routine. You wake up, is that with an alarm? Is it without an alarm? And then how long does it take you to warm up before you're out for your run?
- [54:29]
C
Usually my alarm is actually on at 5, 5 foot 5, that's quarter to 6. Work up, do the necessary change and put on 10 past 6. Then I'm on the road with the whole team and we start training.
- [54:49]
B
Do you always run in groups when you're training?
- [54:52]
C
We always run in pick groups.
- [54:57]
B
How does that go? Because if you're one of the fastest human beings on the planet, which I think you are and most of us think you are, how does it work then, when you're running in groups? Because presumably at some point, depending on what kind of run you're doing, presumably you're the fastest. So help me understand, how are you running groups?
- [55:24]
C
You know, training actually is not about competing. We are training, we are not competing. So we normally run. Well, I am even 5 meters actually at the park. But all in all, is that my life? I need to be with people and run with the young people to actually motivate them. When I am there, actually, everybody is life. There is life when I am there, when I miss training in the morning or when I am doing something else, then everybody. I will receive hundred calls after one and a half hours. Where are you? So it's, it's about training, it's not about competition, but you can train actually for four months in a kudui with everybody. But I think the Mayana people should not should learn or actually practice or practice their minds to handle pressure and have hard work and believe in pushing their limits. The moment they believe in pushing the limits and under the pressure, they will run very fast. You know, it's about what you think that can carry your day.
- [56:37]
B
Yeah. Hey, I'm going to interrupt Rich for a second and introduce myself. I'm Alexi Pappas and I'm so excited to tell you about my new podcast, Mentor Buffet. The central question of Mentor Buffet is who influenced the people who influence us? I sit down with writers, athletes, musicians and so many other influential people to learn about the mentors who shape their lives and the wisdom they've shared along the way. Mentors can change our lives if we let them. Let's all learn from each other. Tune into mentor buffet on YouTube or wherever else you listen to podcasts in the west, certainly here in the uk, and I think also In America, the relationship a lot of people have with running, or I guess movement in general, is to help them deal with the stresses of their day. These days in the uk, people will talk about running for their mental well being. My taxi driver, a chap called Daniel in the northwest of England, he told me a few months ago that he runs 10k every day, seven days a week. And he says if he doesn't run those 10k, he doesn't feel good, he doesn't feel he's settled. A lot of us also do this by ourselves. Right. You know, culture in the west has become quite isolated. People often don't live near their families, near their friends. They're living, maybe they've moved to a different city for work and they often work by themselves and then they go running by themselves and they struggle to motivate themselves to keep going. But what I'm hearing from you is that you run in groups and of course that makes sense, like if you're not going to show up, you're letting people down, they're going to say, hey, Elliot, where are you? Why are you not running today? What's going on? And it makes me, it really fits into what I think, where I think we're really going wrong in the west. We're becoming more isolated, we're doing more and more things by ourself. And I think that's why that group Parkrun every Saturday is proving so successful for so many people across the UK and around the world, is because people are running in groups, which helps motivate you. Have you noticed this when you go around the world, you're speaking to people. Have you noticed that culturally the relationship to running we may have, let's say in the UK or in America is different from the relationship people have with running in, let's say, Kenya.
- [59:16]
C
Absolutely, yes. In America and Europe, most people actually are running by themselves. But my encouragement is that I always say I want to make running a family event, is that if you want to enjoy more running, you run. Cut a group, get 2, 3, 4, 5 people actually assemble yourselves actually in a point. If it's every day, then that's well done, good and just run, you'll enjoy, you'll just talk as you are going, ideas are coming in and you put on paper teno beat and you know it's good. You know, sometimes when you are alone, you think you are running and you are not running. Your mind is in another place. You know, running is not about legs, running is about actually the mind. Your legs might be on the back. But your mind might be actually on the plane. So you need a group web so that it can actually protect your thoughts from actually exploding, going away and bring back to where you are running. So group running actually is crucial to keep you on the course, make you enjoy running and you cannot actually get tired. You know, the moment you are alone you start to think a lot, then you cannot finish. 10km if you are actually aiming.
- [60:43]
B
Yeah, yeah. Many of us struggle with motivation. Do you ever wake up in the morning and you know you're due to have a run and do you ever think, like many of us, I can't be bothered today. I'm not feeling it today. I want to stay in bed. You know, help us understand. Are you as human as the rest of us or do you wake up and yeah, it's time to run?
- [61:13]
C
Actually there's some days whereby I don't feel like running.
- [61:16]
B
Really.
- [61:16]
C
Absolutely, yes. But just lie in the bed and I ask myself, if I don't run, what will happen? And you know, if you don't run in the morning, you lie to yourself that at 10 o'clock I will go for a run. At 10 o'clock you'll say no, 4 o'clock I'll go for a run. Then the day actually will be off. So I'll ask myself what will happen then I wake up, cut my shoes, cut my clothes, got the road in 10 minutes time jogging. Then my body will come up again in training and I will come to life again.
- [61:54]
B
Yeah, no, I love that. Do you tend to run every day usually?
- [61:57]
C
Yes, I run every day.
- [61:59]
B
Every day?
- [61:59]
C
Yeah.
- [62:00]
B
Even like. I don't know, like I know you're in recovery now because you obviously you ran last weekend. Are you still running every day?
- [62:07]
C
No, I'll start next week to Atlanta.
- [62:10]
B
Kenyas and for many of us when we do a marathon, the next day can be quite painful in terms of going up and down stairs. We can really, really feel it.
- [62:21]
C
Yes.
- [62:22]
B
Is it the same for you or can you walk effortlessly the day after?
- [62:25]
C
No, it's the same for me.
- [62:26]
B
Same for you.
- [62:27]
C
Going to stairs. Actually, you know where. And there has been, there has been actually in your muscles and you know all that impact from the road is hard.
- [62:42]
B
Yeah. So you have the marathon hobble like the rest of us. Okay. Hearing what you're saying about groups and running together, I'm drawn back to last Sunday's race again where I don't know. Obviously you had the pacers. There was a fellow competitor who was with you for quite a Long time. I don't know if you were aware of that. If you're thinking, wow, people are still with me. I don't know what goes in your head at that time. I'm very interested. But then there comes a moment where you no longer have your pacers, you no longer have competitors to help push you. What goes on in your mind there, because then it's down to self motivation at that point. You don't have. Many of us know that actually we can run faster if there's people around us, if we're trying to beat someone or we're trying to keep up with someone. But in many of the races I've seen you do, you're out in front by yourself. Is it hard to keep that motivation going for you when it's just.
- [63:48]
C
You learn to start it? When people are around me, yeah. First I always say, I'll run my own race. If anybody actually wants to run my race, then he's welcome. I will not actually deny you are welcome to run my race. So if you want to run your own, that's okay, but I'll run my race. That's why I don't see. I don't actually turn myself and look back. Who is there? Because I am running my own race, actually. The distance cycle is going up and the speed is going up and the muscle starts to actually soar and nobody's there. Then I'm motivating myself. I'm still pushing. I'll push by my own because I trust in my trainings, I trust in what I've been doing. So I know what I've been doing will just take me to the finishing line. So I'm not actually scared of maybe losing some minutes because I am alone or. Yeah.
- [65:02]
B
And yeah, you say you're pushing. One of the most striking things for me, Elliot, when I watch you run, is how relaxed you look. There's an elegance. You look majestic, your posture is fabulous. In fact, I find it very hard to tell the difference between you at mile one and at mile 26. To me, maybe I've got an untrained eye, but it looks remarkably similar. Whereas if you go to a local race here, towards the end, you will see all kinds of postures and people somehow trying to struggle to get through. So you're saying that you're struggling and you're pushing? Of course. Why would you not? In order to break a world record, yet at the same time, you look super relaxed. Can you help us understand that?
- [66:04]
C
Oh, looking super relaxed is. That's a good for me, and on the other hand is that I have actually trained well and train my putty actually to run in a super relaxed way, but in a high pace. So when I am in the rest, I'm just maintaining it. But, you know, to maintain that speed is what actually is really hard to maintain. But it's good to maintain in a good posture without actually struggling so much.
- [66:41]
B
Yeah. I've spoken to many people on this show before about nasal breathing, about some of the benefits that we have when we breathe through our nose instead of through our mouth. And I can't tell when I watch you, you look so relaxed. Certainly for the first half of that marathon last Sunday when I was watching you, I thought, is Elliot just breathing through his nose or is his mouth open? Do you think about this? Is this something you're aware of?
- [67:12]
C
Yes, but I breathe through my mouth.
- [67:14]
B
You breathe through your mouth?
- [67:15]
C
Yes.
- [67:15]
B
From the start to the finish.
- [67:18]
C
The more the speed, the more the motor. You cannot breathe in your nose at.
- [67:23]
B
The speed you're going. No, I can believe that. I can believe that. But thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. And what about your smile, what I call the Kipchoge smile? We hear that you smile when you're in pain. Is that true? Or maybe explain to us. You seem for someone who is running such long distances at such, frankly, a pace that we can't fathom. I know you were at the running show yesterday, so I'm guessing you saw people trying to run your pace, and I'm guessing nobody looked. First of all, what is it like for you when you watch amateur runners trying to run at your pace?
- [68:10]
C
I feel tense.
- [68:11]
B
You feel tense?
- [68:12]
C
Yes.
- [68:13]
B
Why?
- [68:13]
C
No, you know, it's even seeing yourself running on tv, you just feel full.
- [68:21]
B
But do you worry they're going to injure themselves on the treadmill and fall off?
- [68:25]
C
Yeah. I saw last year somebody who fall, fall, but I think it was not injured. So.
- [68:32]
B
Yeah.
- [68:32]
C
But I call it a smile is to enjoy. You know, if you feel that pain, please keep that pain. If you feel the pain, then feel it. The more you actually move with the pain. That's where success is.
- [68:50]
B
Yeah.
- [68:51]
C
Everybody, if you are 10 and you feel the real pain, then everybody is feeling the pain. And few of them who actually know how to handle pain will be successful and will move on to another level.
- [69:04]
B
So how do we learn how to handle pain?
- [69:07]
C
You should understand that pain is part of success. Just combat pain in the positive thing. That success is not coming on a silver platter. You need to work for it. The moment you are working for it, that's how you undergo pain. Pain in your body and pain in your mind thinking. But at the end of it, you will enjoy immediately. You cross the line immediately, the pain is no longer there.
- [69:39]
B
So you think pain is a good thing?
- [69:40]
C
Absolutely, yes. It's a good thing. Pain is a good thing. It actually guides you to know that you need to work hard. It's guiding you to respect that success that you have earned.
- [69:52]
B
Yeah.
- [69:53]
C
Yes. If all people, all successful people actually did not undergo pain, then you can see other things in this world. But because pain is guiding them, that if I play, I am successful, but if I don't do the right thing, actually, I will not earn success again.
- [70:12]
B
Yeah. It's fascinating hearing that, Elliot, because I keep thinking about what you said earlier, that planning. It's about preparation. That's almost where the success lies, not in the actual outcome of the race. You know, you didn't quite say that, but that's certainly what I'm.
- [70:31]
C
That's what I meant.
- [70:32]
B
Yeah. That's what I'm taking from. I found that a really powerful idea. And you say on the day, then no matter what's happening, the crowds, the weather, things you can't control, well, you can trust yourself because you know you've done the training.
- [70:49]
C
Absolutely.
- [70:50]
B
Now that's really powerful. If we apply that to pain, I'm asking you, how can we each of us learn to handle pain better? But I keep thinking about what you said. Well, if you've never practiced being in pain, how would you know ever how to handle it? So it sounds as though you have trust in your body. Cause you know, you've done the work, you've experienced pain, you've got through pain, you've overcome adversity. So, you know, on the next day or the next day, you've got that experience in your body. I know I can do this. And it sounds like that's a key thing for you, the trust that you have because you've done the hard work.
- [71:33]
C
The harder the work you are doing, the more the pain. But that one doesn't prevent you from actually the big day that let us say I've trained for four months. In a good way, there is pain. But you enjoy the pain in that very day that you are running a marathon. Pain should be there on training is not the last days. You will experience pain here. But what I'm trying to say is that the moment you actually encounter that pain. Please pac fear with the land of fear. Because that's where success Is the moment you don't feel pain, then you are not approaching success. The moment you really feel that, please, I need to just quit. That's why success is don't quit. Still keep on. I always tell people, press on, press on, and press on. The material. You press on, you press on, you press on. You will get to where you are you are going.
- [72:38]
B
Yeah. Many people feel nervous the day before, let's say a marathon or a big work presentation or something big in their lives. They feel a little bit nervous and anxious and they don't sleep very well. So it's pretty well known many amateur marathon runners. I did my very first marathon last year at the London Marathon, which didn't go particularly well, but I did finish. I did complete it, and I'm planning to do it in April. Do you ever find yourself the night before a race, lying in bed thinking, man, I need to sleep. I can't sleep. I've got a big race tomorrow. Has that ever happened or have you trained yourself to sleep well the night before a big race?
- [73:26]
C
Not really. I'm like other people. I sleep for two hours, wake up, or it's no longer another two hours. So it's common. It's a good thing, and it's good for us. It shows that you are prepared to handle hard work tomorrow.
- [73:41]
B
Yeah. I know you wear an OURA ring to track your sleep. Yes. And I'm really interested in technology and how it can help us with our health. I think sometimes we can overuse it potentially. You obviously are an elite athlete, so knowing how you're running, how you're sleeping, these things are really, really important for you to do your job. Is it demoralizing for you the night before a race? I don't know what happened the night before. Berlin, for example. If you have a bad night's sleep and you look at your aura ring in the morning and you see a really bad readiness score, or has that ever happened and does that demoralize you, or have you learned not to take too much notice.
- [74:26]
C
The next day? I don't actually click to the app.
- [74:29]
B
And you won't look.
- [74:31]
C
I won't look.
- [74:32]
B
Oh, so if you've had a bad night, you won't look?
- [74:34]
C
I won't look.
- [74:35]
B
Yeah.
- [74:36]
C
Yes. But I know I've been running many marathons, and it's hectic for one day to go to really sleep.
- [74:45]
B
Yeah. I'm always fascinated by talking to people like you who are at the top of their game. And, like, I think of other people at the top of their Sports people who are regarded as the greatest. And you know, in golf, for example, Tiger woods is regarded as by many people as the greatest or certainly one of the greatest golfers of all time. Now, I've heard Tiger woods say in interviews that when he is playing his best, he's so focused on what he's doing with the ball and where the hole is that he doesn't hear or see the crowds. I've heard you say, Elliot, that actually you do hear the crowds. You enjoy hearing what they have to say. So I'm interested as I share that sort of insight from Tiger. Do you ever get like that where you're not hearing them and you're really focused or does it just depend on what stage of a race you're in.
- [75:45]
C
Starting from beginning? Actually, I hear what the crowd are saying on the way. People are actually singing and I'm not looking up at them, but I'm focusing on the road. But I hear that people are actually cheering on the way and I have no problem. That's good. Cheering is good.
- [76:05]
B
Yeah. So you hear it.
- [76:08]
C
But I block my mind from thinking outside and bring the mayanaka to the. Every mile splits, every kilometer splits and forecast you on the projected time.
- [76:22]
B
Yeah, you're obviously very well known around the world. Many people with profiles like yours will face maybe 95% positive comments online, but maybe 5% negative comments. When those negative comments come, if they do, how do you deal with them?
- [76:46]
C
Negative comments are there in all the sport. You know, the law of nature cannot allow us to think together. There is optimists and pessimists in this world and we need to respect all of them because we are all human beings. So any negative thought actually respect. And that's life, you know, you know, other things actually is that you don't, you need to just forget, just see it and forget. You know, you don't put in your mind, but a lot is there. There is a lot of positive remarks. Negative remarks. What can you do?
- [77:30]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [77:31]
C
You cannot prevent them from talking, but you can prevent them from coming inside your life because they are negative.
- [77:40]
B
Some top athletes have struggled when they have retired. You know, Michael Phelps, another great, you know, all time swimming, great. It's been well documented that he has struggled with mental health problems in the past. And I watched the documentary he made about Olympians and how many of them have really struggled. You know, the four years is all about that one race and then the day after there's, oh, what am I getting up for? I've got nothing to Train for nothing, to practice for. And I'm really interested. You appear to be to me, at least in the prime of your career. I hope we're seeing you running for many, many years to come. Have you thought about retirement? Have you thought about how you're going to feel when you no longer do this as your job?
- [78:33]
C
Yes, in front of my mind, I know I will retire, but I will retire when the time comes in. I'll retire running actively, but I'll still go around all the big city marathons running for charity to actually raise funds for my foundation, to build libraries and actually construct the environment. I think I'll be more busy when I retire and I'm looking forward for it.
- [79:08]
B
So you don't need the running the world records to make you feel good about yourself?
- [79:14]
C
Not at all. I could have retired in 2019 when I break up to our party. So I will retire when my muscles are no longer consuming the trainings, when my mind is no longer actually actively consuming the training.
- [79:32]
A
So.
- [79:34]
C
I want to retire in a good way. I don't want to retire because I have made an history. Then why do I die? If I made history, if I've inspired a billion people by running under two hours and then the next day a kid, a 10 year kid, asks, is that person who inspires still running? No, he retires. Then what's the meaning of running?
- [80:05]
B
Yeah.
- [80:07]
C
The meaning of running is that you inspire many people, you still run and show them running is life. Making history and actually removing the barriers in the minds people is a great thing, but we need to keep on.
- [80:23]
B
Yeah, yeah. So you think you'll still be running in your 70s, your 80s?
- [80:27]
C
Absolutely, yes. You know, seven years ago I met an old man in Athens in Greece. I was there for some awards and the old man actually was 91 years. He was a very good old man. 91 years, still working. And then we were thinking, he told me, no, now you are running marathon. And I told him yes, he told me that just be running in his life, all his life. But he will stop running at hundred, I trust. Now he's 98. I've never followed him, I've not got his contacts, but I think he has no. Two more days, two more years to run because he's becoming old because of the knees and everything, but still running. So if you want to, I asked him then, what's the secret? Actually you have a coat, you are actually clean with a tie and you don't look like you are 91. You tell me. The secret is running wow. Yeah.
- [81:37]
B
Yeah. I guess if you were to stop running after, let's say, another Olympic gold or another world record, then I guess in some ways it's not consistent with your philosophy, which is those are just outcomes. There are things that happen as a side effect of you just concentrating on getting up each day, doing the work, having a plan, preparing, executing on your plan. And I guess whether you're a competitive athlete or whether you're just running for fun to raise money, you still seem to have that real love of running. I mean, do you ever get up, Elliot, and forget the log, forget what my coach has said. I just want to run today because I'm free and I just want to experience what it feels like.
- [82:24]
C
Absolutely. Our coach actually are leaving us free on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. In the morning, we are running as a group in a freeway. Just run and Enjoy running for 20km easy. Just the way you feel.
- [82:44]
B
Yeah. How have you managed to stay clear of injuries in a way that seems to be quite rare? The context of me asking this is in the UK and I think in America, there are various statistics going around that 60 to 80%, maybe of runners have to stop or give up at some point because of injury, whereas you appear to be someone who, touch wood, manages to stay relatively clear. Is there anything you can share about that?
- [83:19]
C
First is that injuries are a part of life in sport. Injuries are part of actually a challenge in sport. But what I am doing is that when I'm resuming training after marathon, then I take care of my body with the massage and making sure my muscles are good. I will start the first amount of vocal resuming training by going to gymnasium for the old man. Three, three days a week, running on steps, lifting some weights, aerobics for the old man. That old man actually is really intensive, mixing with some brands. And it makes my muscles actually to. If there is something going on, it can actually keep a sign immediately and I can handle it. And after that one man, I go to another step of actually endurance speed and endurance training to build my muscles. So two months actually of my training is building the muscles and actually like chasing the injury. And you'll never, if you do that, you'll never get an injury. Or if you get an injury, it will just a small injury, it will bite away because you can't prevent everything. But you have done a lot which it's 80% of your. It's. You have an 80% chance that you cannot get an injury.
- [84:57]
B
Would you say you're good at if an injury is starting to come up or you feel a niggle? Are you quite good at saying, hey, look, I'm not going to do that long run today. I just need to look after this.
- [85:08]
C
Absolutely. When I get immediately something which is wrong, I address it immediately. Yeah, it's good to address as highly.
- [85:18]
B
As possible because I think a lot of people, a lot of my patients that I speak to, their work is so pressured, they're so looking forward to their Saturday run that even if they're injured, they run through and they often then get injured and then they're off for two months, they can't do anything. And I feel like I see this a lot with training plans. Elliot, I don't know your view on this. Of course, you are an elite athlete whose job revolves around running. Many people with busy jobs, and I'm not saying you don't have a busy job. I mean, let's say a non elite athlete, let's say a busy parent trying to do their job, look after their children, they're trying to squeeze a run in at the weekends, or they're trying to train for a marathon and they see a published training plan online. Okay, three runs a week. This one's 12 miles, this one's 14. My feeling as a doctor is that sometimes we don't trust ourselves enough. We see the plan and we think, even though I'm tired or my knee's hurting, I must stick to that plan because that's the published plan. Whereas I kind of feel we should be using plans as guidance. But we also have to trust ourselves and go, it's not the right thing for me today. What's kind of your perspective on that?
- [86:44]
C
My perspective actually, is that you should have a feeling of yourself. Feel for yourself. Is it, am I good enough to do this established thing? You should have that personal belief that listen to your body. If you listen to your body, actually that's really crucial. So it's good to listen to your body do what is necessary. It can save you energy, can save you actually of not being injured and many things. It's really good to listen to your body.
- [87:19]
B
Self discipline is something that I've heard you speak about before. You said it's very, very important. When you say self discipline, what exactly do you mean by that?
- [87:32]
C
That's crucial thing and that's value number one. You know, in our camp I set up, I printed a huge pillboard. When you hand our gate, the second gate, you get a huge billboard with 60 values.
- [87:55]
B
66, 060 values. Wow. Yes.
- [88:00]
C
I encourage everybody to cut 15 values.
- [88:05]
B
15.
- [88:06]
C
After cutting 15, they should narrow them to three. Those three values, you should live by it, sleep by it, walk by those values, run by those values, relax by those values, go around with your friends, guided by those values. Then we come to self discipline which is inside those values. What I mean by self discipline is it's that sacrificial or personal passions and pleasures that you sacrifice those passions and pleasures to allow you to do or to work on your career. How can you hand self discipline? The rule number one is to get.
- [89:02]
B
Vitamin N. Vitamin N?
- [89:06]
C
Yes. That's the rule number one. You need to inject yourself with vitamin.
- [89:10]
B
N. N is for N is to.
- [89:14]
C
Learn to say no. That's a vitamin.
- [89:19]
B
Yeah.
- [89:20]
C
That's how to get self discipline. Secondly is setting your priorities right. Thirdly is avoid complaining. Those are the three factors which can lead you to self discipline. I want to tell you that doing all these things is not one night. Eventually it's a process. It's like going to a gymnasium. If you go to gymnasium for nine hours, I go for three months. Who is going to get the muscles, good muscles? It's me because I'm going for three months. If you go for nine hours, it's just nothing. You destroy your body. So it's a process. It's process. It's a real process that you can actually in the three month time you have absorbed the self discipline. That's why I always tell people it's not a one night event to get vitamin. And learning to say no in everything is not easy.
- [90:26]
B
No.
- [90:27]
C
Setting your priorities right is not easy. Avoid complaining in anything is not easy. But if you combine the three things you can hand self discipline and without those three, then there is no self discipline. That's what I mean by actually trying to tell people. Self discipline is the key to any professional sportsperson or sportswoman.
- [90:52]
B
And I've heard you say before that the discipline, it doesn't restrict us, it actually gives us more freedom.
- [91:01]
C
Absolutely. As I always say, that discipline ones are free in life. The indiscipline ones are not free, they're in prison because you are in discipline. And when wherever you go, you know that I am not supposed to do this and we are doing it, that means you are in prison. In this world you need to be. We need to be free, walk free, live honest life. And that's the way to go.
- [91:31]
B
Yeah. You're commonly known for the phrase no human is limited. When you say no human is limited, what do you mean by that?
- [91:45]
C
No human is limited. Actually is not applying purely to sportsmen and sportswomen. It's not for running alone. It's for all the professions in this world. I want that engineer actually to remove that barrier in his mind that he or she can think and innovate something which can help the world. I want that teacher actually to have the best mind to inject knowledge to the kids. I want that psychology to have the best knowledge to actually talk to people and remove what they have as a problem. I want that coach actually to have the best skills to instill to his both women and men. I want that policeman to really know how to talk to people and to handle peace and security in his or our own country. I want that leader to really provide the real skills of leadership. I want those world leaders actually to impress that they are not limited and make sure that the world is in peace and the world is developing towards a positive direction. That's what I mean by no human is limited. It applies to everybody. It's a universal thing which affects every human being in this world. And if everybody actually absorbed and cracked that press, no human is limited. You can wake up tomorrow and walk. You can wake up tomorrow and run. You can wake up tomorrow and do anything. I want that student actually to get a first class on us because he or she is not limited. I want that person actually to get that expensive course and work on it and pass it because it's not limited. That's what I mean.
- [93:41]
B
How do you instill this sort of philosophy in your own children? Is it hard? Do they see what you do and that inspires them? Or do you also have any sort of specific ways that you talk to your kids about things like this?
- [93:58]
C
I'm trying actually always to talk with my kids in a free way, to tell them, I always ask them, do you know I am going to come from Monday to Saturday morning? They say yes. To do what? To train after training. You can't compete after competing. You win after winning. Then you make us comfortable and pay our school fees. That's what my children are saying. So I told them, you are also not limited. Go to school, work hard, come and play and do anything else and you will be successful. And they are accepting.
- [94:45]
B
Yeah.
- [94:46]
C
Yes.
- [94:49]
B
It's been such an honor, honestly, Elliot, to talk to you. You're someone who has been incredibly inspirational for me in my own life. You know, when I go running and I'm feeling tired, I often think of you. I think, come on, run. Like Elliot. That literally happens in my mind. I stand up a bit taller I think keep your form, keep your good posture like he does. So I know, you know, you're inspiring millions of people around the world. You're certainly inspiring this British guy here talking to you right now. Before we finish up, just a couple of things in my mind. Many people these days when they run, they. They try and distract themselves from the pain with music or podcasts. Do you have any view on the benefit of running with music and or podcasts?
- [95:44]
C
During Daisy runs, it's good to listen to music and listen to podcasts.
- [95:48]
B
During the easy ones, yes. Yeah.
- [95:50]
C
But with the intensive runs, I don't think you will listen because you are pushing your body and music and podcasts cannot work. But with the easy runs, when you are relaxing, when you are at the gym, when you are at the pike, how after pike, podcast and music is really good.
- [96:12]
B
Fantastic.
- [96:12]
C
Yeah, because you. You can actually listen for podcasts for an hour and you forget that it was running for one hour. Hey, so it's one hour.
- [96:22]
B
The breaking two hours was of course done in specific conditions. You obviously have shown yourself that you can run a marathon in under two hours, which is still one of the most incredible things I have seen. Do you think within your career it's going to be possible to do that in a competitive marathon?
- [96:47]
C
Absolutely, it's possible. I've demonstrated actually in an organized marathon, which I personally cannot say it was in a specific condition because, you know, few people actually are there to try. Not even dare to try, dare to think, to run under throes. Phew. I think I am the only one who has been there to think and dare to try. None are there to try. Leave alone. Even leave alone. They have never even dared to think, leave alone to try. Just thinking, running their minds that, can I run two hours? Never. So it's still a job for people actually to accept. But all in all is that I know running under toes in a normal mountain, like in Atlanta and Palin, Chicago is absolutely possible.
- [97:52]
B
And where's that going to come from? Where's that improvement going to come from? Is it training, nutrition, mindset, shoes? I mean, where do you think? Because to me, like my kids we were talking about this last week, goes, ah, daddy, just another minute to go. If he can do that. But of course, at that level, 10 seconds is huge. A minute is like another marathon. Where do you feel that improvement is going to come from?
- [98:25]
C
To improve? My cycle will follow many things. Nutrition will be there, technology will be there, teamwork, teammates. You are right. System, circle like teammates, those who are working, people Walking around, you will take their key positions and all will be well. So I think if actually the right systems will be there on an athlete after those right systems, if that athlete has the right man and he has really thin and he wants to try, then he will run under two hours. First and foremost is that the systems might be there in a good way. But is this person actually as he agree in his heart and mind to try to run under two hours? That's a big question. Which we should put on and we should actually make it tackle. Before we tell somebody to come and try, we need to himself. I need to come in a broad daylight and say, hey, I have thought enough and I wonder trying to. Then the system comes in.
- [99:51]
B
Yeah.
- [99:51]
C
And we set the date.
- [99:54]
B
It's so inspiring speaking to you and I'm pretty sure this conversation is going to inspire everyone to do their own version of a sub 2 hour marathon in their own lives. It may not be a sub 2 hour marathon, but it could be, you know, whatever it might be for that person. But as you say, you need to imagine it, you need to believe it first before you're ever going to achieve it. I think that's a very, very powerful message. Elia. This podcast is called Feel better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves, we get more out of our lives. And finally, at the end of for me, a wonderful conversation with an incredibly inspirational guy. I just wonder for people who are struggling around the world, they're struggling with the state of their lives. They're struggling with making things consistent, doing the things that they said they were going to do. Have you got any final words for them?
- [100:50]
C
First and foremost is that many people are struggling. Many people actually have lost hope. You know, when you lose hope, they say first and foremost is that you can survive with water for 40 days. But if you lose hope, it's only five seconds and you are dead. So it's good to have hope. On the other hand is that we should actually try to understand about life and to know what life entails. I know. Then it will actually help us not to struggle so much, but to understand it, work on it slowly by slowly and you learn all well.
- [101:32]
B
Eli Kupchagi, thank you so much and good luck for everything you're doing. I really appreciate it.
- [101:36]
C
Thank you very much.
- [101:41]
B
Really hope you enjoyed that conversation as always do have a think about one thing that you can take away and start applying into your own life. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week and always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it, because when you feel better, you live more.