← The Rich Roll Podcast
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- [00:01]
Rich Roll
We interrupt your programming with an important psa. Happy gut, happy body, happy life. It's important, but to get there, you need a ritual. Mine starts right here with C DSO1, because here's the thing about probiotics, and many people don't know this. Most of the products out there don't even survive your stomach acid. Which is why I was intrigued by Seed, because they have this capsule in capsule system which is designed to safeguard 24 probiotic strains and actually deliver them all the way to the colon with precision, where they can be released intact. Seeds DS01, Daily Symbiotic, is a two in one, meaning both a probiotic and a prebiotic, which was precisely formulated with these 24 strains that are not only clinically studied, but actually proven to survive the digestive journey through your GI tract and stomach acid. But DS01 isn't just about your gut. It's about supporting your entire body, your whole body, from your immune system to your energy levels. And since starting DSO1, I actually have noticed improved digestion and steady energy. I feel lighter after meals, and I really love knowing that I'm supporting my gut barrier integrity and my immune function. So go to seed.com richroll and use the code richroll25 for 25% off your first month of DSO1. If you care about your health, you care about your longevity, you got to start with your gut. So visit seed.com richroll and use the code rich roll25. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Look, everybody's got a story to tell. Experience earned on the field of life, gifts that are worth sharing, which is something I am consistently encouraging people to do. Because when we do it, it turns strangers into friends and creates community where before there was none. To do this effectively, though, you need an online presence. It's just a fact. But even if you're building one from scratch or have an allergy technology, there's really nothing to fear, because Squarespace's all in one platform, makes the process incredibly simple, with everything you need, from claiming a domain to building a super pro website, or even when you're ready to scale to a supersonic level, all in one place. The newest feature is their blueprint AI, which basically creates a custom website for you in just a few steps. You tell it about your industry, your goals, your personality, and it generates content and design recommendations that actually fit who you are. But here's the thing that really matters. The real juice. They make it ridiculously easy to offer services and get paid consultations, coaching workshops, whatever you can Showcase your offerings, handle scheduling, send invoices, take payments, and it's all integrated because the world needs what you have to offer. But if people can't find you or easily work with you, it doesn't matter how good you are. So head on over to squarespace.com rich roll for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch Rich roll to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
- [03:29]
Jay Duplass
The movie is set during six months of sobriety. And that's one thing that Michael talked about a lot, is how there aren't a lot of movies about early sobriety, as the movie's about what it takes to get sober. But this movie really is about being early sober and still being an alcoholic and really not knowing how to do it. And, you know, there were so many poignant moments about that when Michael was telling me his personal story that made me want to tell this story. And, you know, one of them was, you know, his desperate fear of like never being funny again. That was your biggest fear in terms of getting sober is like being funny is everything that you were at the time and what you felt like you had to offer the world. And if you are sober and you can't do that, obviously you made the decision that it wasn't worth living in that moment.
- [04:20]
Michael Strassner
I was downstairs in my basement and my best thinking was, I don't think I want to be here anymore, you know, So I tried to hang myself and luckily the belt broke and the next day was the first day I actually asked for help.
- [04:42]
Rich Roll
So there was a brief chapter of my life, this period of time in which I was beginning to kind of give my curiosity wider birth to explore new projects and do interesting and different types of creative things, while also looking for kind of ways out of my lawyer career. But also before the full blown existential crisis meets health scare incident that basically precipitated the chapter that I'm most well known for, which was my period of lifestyle upheaval and then ultra endurance competition. But the phase I'm talking about right now is a phase of my life that I actually don't think I've talked about very much. It all went down when I was working as an entertainment lawyer, no longer in the big giant law firms, but in a small firm that I had formed with a couple friends at the time. I was working with writers and producers in the then, I think very exciting independent film space. And I actually had a fair amount of fun doing this. Probably the most fun that you could have as a lawyer at Least in my opinion. I have very fond memories of attending the Sundance Film Festival and being energized by supporting and just by being around young artists, young filmmakers who were so devoted to realizing their dreams. And there was something very inspirational about that. I have this one memory that really stands out among many great memories attending the Sundance Film Festival. And it was for the premiere of a film that was called Love Liza. And on one side of me, sitting in the audience was my friend Gordy, who had written that movie and would go on to win the Waldo Salt Screenwriting Award that year at Sundance for the Best screenplay. And sitting on the other side of me was Gordo's brother Phil, as in Philip Seymour Hoffman. And then next to him was their mother, Marilyn, who was a judge in Rochester at the time and somebody I had become friends with. And I guess I'm sharing that because this was the kind of experience I realized that, you know, kind of a peak experience that no corporate law firm was ever going to be able to deliver to me. And another reason why it was a somewhat enjoyable period of time for me was because it sated the appetite of my inner shadow artist. Because I think what I really wanted to do back then was what my clients were doing, which was write and direct low budget independent movies. But that was too risky, far too scary. Whereas being just in the proximity of other people that were doing it felt fun, but safe, you know, because it gives this illusion of being part of something that you're actually kind of not. Anyway, this fascination with film that I had wasn't exactly a new idea. I'd been a PA on sets when I lived in New York City for a couple years at the beginning of the 90s. I attended NYU for a filmmaking intensive one summer. But steeping myself in it as a lawyer began inching me towards stepping more into the art form itself. So I did what you do when you live in LA as a requirement, which is to begin writing a screenplay. So that's what I did in collaboration with my wife Julie, later with my friend Drew, on the script that I would truncate into something that in 2003 I could realize as a short film that I was capable of directing. That film was called Down Dog, which was like this 15 minute, very broad satire on the very ripe to be made fun of yoga scene in LA at that time. And the film's fine, I guess. It's not like I've gone back and watched it. Parts of it, I suppose, might hold up. But I will say that there was a very brief moment in time back then when the script, the feature version of it, caught the eye of Matthew McConaughey's then production company called JK Levin. And it appeared for like a millisecond, like maybe this project would turn into a movie that would get made with Double M in the starring role. Of course, that all quickly ended. That script ended back up in a drawer and I would get interested in other things, things that would eventually lead me here. Anyway, I bring all of this up only because this little film that I made, Down Dog, ended up playing a bunch of film festivals. It even won an award here and there. And one of those festivals was the Bend film festival in 2000. And at that festival, the feature that everyone was talking about was this film called the Puffy Chair. It was a super low budget lo fi indie production by first time writer directors Jay and Mark Duplass, who also happened to be brothers. I made a point to see it and I knew immediately that the guys behind it were, unlike me, very much the real deal. Jay was not there in person. He was with the Puffy Chair film at another festival that weekend, but Mark was. And I got a chance to meet him, got to hang out with him a little bit. And so, partly because of that, I've always felt emotionally invested in these brothers, maybe more than I should. And watching them succeed, seeing them rise to such a high level in the crazy business that is the movie industry, has been a real joy for me over the years. These two have made tons of great stuff, but these days they're off doing separate things. Part of this sort of conscious uncoupling of sorts, in which Mark has gone on to become basically a legitimate movie star. Jay in his own right, a producer and executive producer on like a zillion television and other projects out there. He started acting for the first time. You should check him out in season two of HBO's Industry, which is a show where he plays a hedge fund guy. He does a great job. In addition to that show just being next level, his performance is very unique and memorable. But the thing that Jay had not done is direct a film all on his own was this hole in his experience that he began to fill when he came across this improv guy, Michael Strassner, by way of Michael's short comedic videos on social media. And Michael's also this guy who happens to have this pretty extraordinary addiction and recovery story. These two connected, Jay and Michael. They concocted a plan to work together and came up with a creative idea for a movie that they ended up co writing for Strasner to star in and for Jay to finally solo direct. The culmination of this collaboration is the Baltimore Ons, which is this really great, heartfelt little indie that could with all the elements that bring up all of my Sundance nostalgia, and a film that is getting not only unanimous rays, but also what is almost impossible for a tiny feature in 2025, which is a theatrical release, meaning you can and should see it immediately in theaters. So this one is a little bit of everything. It's an old school what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. Miracle of a sobriety story. It's an artist origin story. It's a state of the union on filmmaking and television in the streaming area. It's about venturing creative and it's about finding your voice, along with all the kind of hows and whys of cultivating and sharing it. This one plays a little bit like a James Fry Craig Maude mashup, along with a few other recent guests that fall squarely into the old school category, which as I've been talking about, is really the direction that I'm interested in moving the show more towards, more so than I have in recent years, at least in part because I'm a little fatigued. I'm a little bit bored by the recent over emphasis of podcasting on things like protocols for self optimization, this reverse engineering of podcasts that are turning into conversations that are basically predetermined. And I'm not crazy about that. And I really want to intentionally fall back in love with what led me to fall in love with this thing so long ago, which is just honest and open ended conversations informed by real life stories, earnest stories that are lifted from real life lived experience. Because to me, I mean, that's the shit, man. And I actually think that this is what we're missing and right now especially what I think we need more of. Or at least I know that I do because it leads to what we happen to be lacking, in my opinion as a culture right now, which is more empathy and more understanding. So that's what we're going to do today. And this is what I'm going to focus on more going forward. So if you're into that, great. If you're not, that's awesome too. There's lots of other stuff out there for you. Have at it. But here I'm going to do my best to keep it true, to be true to what moves me, true to what I think is important when it comes to getting our head around the human condition. And I think this conversation is exactly that. So with that, this is me, J. Duplass and Michael Strossner. So have at it. Well, this is a big moment for both of you guys. It's your first solo directing effort. And, you know, Michael, obviously this is like a launchpad for you. So that's gotta be like, you know, like, it's wild, very cool, but possibly deranging. Also, you don't keep yourself cool, grounded.
- [14:25]
Michael Strassner
Exactly.
- [14:27]
Rich Roll
But I think, Jay, as an outsider looking in on your career, you and your brother, you've gone off and you've flexed in all these different areas, and you've got your hands in so many different projects, but it feels like your compass is pretty well calibrated. There is a pretty solid understanding of this is what I do, or these are the areas in which I excel. And all of the products feel, on some level, of a piece with each other, even if you're stretching over here or over there. And I believe there's a narrative around the Baltimorans that this is sort of a return to your roots. But I don't necessarily see it that way. I just feel like it's an extension of what you've always been doing. There's a purity to it, perhaps that makes it unique and special. But like many people, like everyone, like, my introduction to you and your brother was the puffy chair. And I actually, I met your brother in 2005 at the Bend Film Festival when he was there with the movie, because I had written and directed a short film that was also screening at that amazing. At that festival called Down Dog. It was like this parody of the LA yoga scene.
- [15:42]
Jay Duplass
That's great.
- [15:43]
Rich Roll
And I kind of palled around with your brother a little bit and got to know him. And I just remember when I saw that film, I was like, oh, like, these guys are for real. This is a real movie. Like, they're going places. And your brother, at that time, you know, he was telling me, like, oh, they were. You guys were getting writing assignments already and stuff like that. Like, the foundation of your career was already kind of taking place at that time. And so that kind of, like, gave me an emotional connection to, like, the career that the two of you have been having. But this movie now, like, I was living in New York when Slacker came out, and, you know, it was all Hal Hartley and Elle Mariachi, and, you know, then it was Sex Lies In Videotape and Blue Velvet, these movies that just really changed, like, my young mind around, like, what A movie could be. And there was so much hope and, like, earnestness and excitement and possibility during that period of time. And I would go to Sundance every year, and it was just like, so exciting to go to these premieres and see these filmmakers get up on stage and just, you know, their dream had come true. You know, it was just very special. And this movie, the Baltimorans, very much feels like a movie out of time. Like, it is a movie from that era that shares that DNA. So was that, like, part of the, you know, the thinking process? Like, it's anachronistic that this movie. The reviews are incredible. Everybody's very excited about it, and it's actually getting a theatrical release. Like, a movie like this doesn't go into the theaters anymore. Like, it is, like, out of time. Like, it's this bizarre unicorn.
- [17:26]
Jay Duplass
I mean, most independent films don't get a theatrical nowadays, much less one with no movie stars. I mean, Michael is a movie star. People just don't know it yet.
- [17:35]
Michael Strassner
But, yeah, three months from now, possibly.
- [17:37]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, possibly. Very possible.
- [17:39]
Michael Strassner
Keeping standards low, though.
- [17:41]
Jay Duplass
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is very unusual to have this kind of success with a tiny little movie. And I did return to my roots. You know, I was coming off of a long period of, you know, big things in my life happening. And it might not be perceptible to other people in the public because we do produce a lot of things and we support people, and we're always involved in helping people make things, TV shows, movies, whatever it may be. But, you know, over the last seven or eight years, I've essentially gone through, like, a loving breakup with my brother about us making art, you know, in a forced march, almost immigrant style way, you know, where we've come to realize that, like, you know, I actually still want to be the Coen brothers on some level. I'm just going to do it on my own. I want to be a writer, director. My brother More runs a tiny little studio. Our company is basically a small studio. So it's been like, a long journey. But ultimately, what led me to Michael and to this project is, you know, I was going through that breakup trying to figure out how I was going to make movies again. We had the pandemic, which kind of destroyed independent films because a Covid budget on an independent film is more expensive than the independent film to do. The protocols, basically. And then we had our strikes. And towards the end of the strikes, I realized I had not directed a movie in 14 years. I've been supporting everybody else in making their Stuff. And I just got to the point where I was like, I need to make a movie come hell or high water. Which was exactly the place I was at when we made the Puffy Chair, which is at that time, I was like, I gotta do it. Because that's the thing about Hollywood, which you know well, which you know well, which is, like, it's very easy to confuse talking about making movies with making movies. They are not the same thing. And, you know, my brother and I, over time, we really forced ourselves into, you know, an almost compulsive creativity because. And we even had a philosophy around it, which was just for me and him. But it started coming out, and now it's like a. I guess it's like an independent film mantra, which is make movies, not meetings. Because even when you get involved in Hollywood, they just want to talk about stuff. And our philosophy, even when we have a meeting with the studio, would be like, we love to make this movie with you. We are making this movie on August 15th. If you would like to be a part of it, that would be fantastic, because we don't want to have to pay for it with the measly $17,000 we can scrounge together. But we are making it. And Hollywood being essentially a junior high dating scene, the less you need them, the more they want you.
- [20:42]
Rich Roll
You know what I mean? Instead of being, you know, being on your knees and. And begging and being in this. This, you know, weak place from which to negotiate, just being like, we're doing it. Like, do you want to get on the bus or not? Like, we're cool. But. Yeah, that's. That's a. That's a power move.
- [20:59]
Jay Duplass
It is. It was our own little weird power move. And so I kind of returned to that place, and I also, you know, I knew I was gonna be, you know, I had made. I hadn't made a movie in 14 years, and Hollywood is. What have you done lately? And so I just thought to myself, I was like, I need to return to the place of the Puffy Chair, where I can just tell a true story and use the people who are living it. And I was just thinking about my life, and I had gotten to know Michael a little bit via Instagram.
- [21:30]
Rich Roll
Yeah. How did you guys. How did you guys meet? We.
- [21:33]
Michael Strassner
So I was putting up, like, dumb videos on Instagram. They weren't dumb. They were very smart and sophisticated. But it was Buffalo Bill talking to his Alexa.
- [21:44]
Jay Duplass
Buffalo Bill, the mess.
- [21:45]
Rich Roll
You got a lot of videos up there, you know, playing characters and stuff.
- [21:50]
Michael Strassner
So I did this one. And also I would do Brene Brown a bunch, because I was such a Brene Brown fan. And I would play, like. I would just be talking about, like, random stuff that she would be, like, yelling at her husband basically about. It's like, you know, Steve, you know.
- [22:05]
Rich Roll
What I really did?
- [22:05]
Michael Strassner
I went to. I got ice cream the other day. You know what ice cream stands for? I courageously encourage courage, redeem myself ashamed. And I just saw Jay follow me, and I was like, holy shit. Like, my hero follows me. Someone I've looked up to for years. I am going like, it was crazy. I was just like, you know, And I had a short film at the time that I was looking for an actress for, and I was like, you know what? This guy helps out a lot of people. Why not me? And I just sent him a dm, and I was like, hey, Jay, I'm a huge fan of yours. All this stuff that I listed, I'm trying to shoot this short film. If you could help, great. If not, it just means the world that you read this. That was in September of 2021. He got back to me in February of 2022, and he was like, dude, I don't check Instagram. I don't know how it works.
- [22:57]
Jay Duplass
I don't know how it works. I know people think I'm savvy, I'm old, and I don't know how social media works.
- [23:03]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, to the point now where, like, we'll be together. And he's like, can you help me post this? Like, I'm trying to make sure it's not cropped out. And I was like, I gotcha. Come here. And he messaged me back, and he was like, send me the script. I sent him the script. And he was like, come over my house. And I was like, I was doing Buffalo Bill videos, and you want me to come over your house where your kids live? Okay, sure. And we just have this, like, great lunch. He helps me with the short. I shoot it, I edit it, I direct it. And then I come back and he. And this is, like, the stuff that, like, is unheard of in Hollywood, in my opinion. He took time out of his day to help me. And then we came back for the edit, and he, like, stopped, and he was like, okay, like, this is where you cut here. This is where you. And he just, like, showed me how to do it, and. God, I'm getting emotional this early.
- [23:50]
Jay Duplass
We're gonna cry.
- [23:51]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, we're. And it was just the first person that really took time with me. You know, and it was then I took him out to lunch to thank him in December of 2022, and I gave him a Sidney Pollock picture of Tootsie because he said it was one of his favorite movies. And I told him a little about my story, how I got sober. And after that lunch, I put on my manifestations, shoot a movie with Jay Duplass Number two, Number one's Always Stay sober every year. And he calls me up in April, and he's like, hey, man, I want to make a movie, and I want you to be the star of it. You want to do it? And I was like, yeah, that sounds awesome. What? And he was like, I would have.
- [24:39]
Rich Roll
Thought that you had been putting together a script and that on the heels of Jay sort of opening his door to you, that that would lead to you then coming to him with a script. No, and that's not the way it happened.
- [24:51]
Michael Strassner
No, it was like. Then I came over his house, and the car that I parked out front here doesn't have ac, and I showed up to his house shirtless, and I.
- [25:02]
Jay Duplass
Happen to be looking out of the window, and I see this large bear of a man getting out of his tiny little Jetta without a shirt on and using his shirt to fan himself dry.
- [25:12]
Rich Roll
That's like some Jack Black shirt. Yeah, truly, you know?
- [25:15]
Jay Duplass
Truly. I was just like, this guy is a living movie right here. I'm like, first of all, I was like, that's going in the movie for sure.
- [25:22]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. We shot in December, though, so that's.
- [25:24]
Jay Duplass
We shot in December in Baltimore. That was the one thing we couldn't pull off.
- [25:27]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, but literally, I'm like, I see him out of the corner of my eye, and I'm sure. I'm like, hey, Jay, how are you? Just give me a minute, you know, Just need to get my back dry. And then we just kind of, like, I would just kind of tell him, like, stories, and we kind of. And then also stories and then locations that we had in Baltimore for free, you know, that we kind of backed this movie in together.
- [25:49]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, we kind of. Same as Puffy Chair at the time. That was a movie about my brother and his girlfriend and my brother trying to make it as a musician. And, you know, we had a touring band. We had this tiny town in Maine that Katie was from. And, you know, we had a bunch of desperate people. And by a bunch, I mean seven. Seven desperate people. Like, you know, my brother, myself, our actors, our girlfriends, now our wives, you know, so it was the similar philosophy, which is, you know, Michael had really opened his heart to me and told me what he'd been through. I mean, he had already established himself as a hilarious person, but then learned his, you know, his origin story essentially of becoming sober. And it just inspired me. And, you know, I was like, I think this is it. And, you know, he's. Michael's originally from Baltimore and one of his best friends, David Bonnett, was there and was looking for work. He had been Paul Rubin's assistant, and Paul Rubins had just died and he was looking for work and had returned to Baltimore from la. And we were just like, I think we can create a movie in Baltimore that's essentially, you know, semi autobiographical and it will be, you know, as authentic as a movie could possibly be. Because ultimately, in the end, I'm trying. I wanna. Look, we're in the age of TikTok and social media and all this stuff, but, like, you and I grew up watching movies. That was a dominant art form. It was the dominant art form for Andrea too.
- [27:16]
Michael Strassner
You too?
- [27:17]
Rich Roll
You too.
- [27:17]
Michael Strassner
I mean, I would go to the movies by myself and sit there and just like escape for an hour. It was like that. And drugs and alcohol is what I.
- [27:25]
Jay Duplass
Loved, you know, But I mean, I am always focused on, like, you know, a couple of things, which is like, what can I give people that they need, you know, that people are craving? And also, how can I platform beautiful, incredible people who are not being seen and who are not being witnessed and who are inspiring to me and can, you know, lift people up and give them a great time in a movie theater? And so Michael was it, you know, and I knew inherently that he was scrappy enough to go to Baltimore with me and make a movie on the streets of Baltimore in the middle of the night in freezing, freezing cold weather for no money and just like, make a piece of art and just hope that, you know, hope and dream that, you know, it would be seen by people one day and celebrated by people.
- [28:21]
Rich Roll
Yeah, there's like a couple things that stand out for me and what you just shared. The first thing is like, you're approaching it from an audience member and from a perspective of, like, how can I serve the audience? Like, you know, how can I help uplift this guy who I feel like needs to be seen more and, like, how can I serve the audience rather than, like, how can I look good as a director or how can I, you know, it's a service minded approach, right? Which is obviously like a, you know, it's a way of being in relationship with the world that's a very, that's a very, you know, kind of AA sensibility. But there's this earnestness in the film, you know, which is rare. Like, it's sort of, there's a sweetness to it. You know, it's not cynical like our time. You know, there is a, it's uplifting and heartfelt and vulnerable and you know, these characters are kind of just laying it all out there unapologetically, you know, and there's real beauty in that. And you just, just don't see movies like that anymore. And especially like low budget independent films. Like, it's just, you know, it's, it, it did like take me back, you know, decades to when these were the kind of movies that were coming out all the time.
- [29:31]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, that's been the, the most incredible thing that we've experienced in terms of audience reaction. I mean, we've only been to film festivals so far and we've, we've won an inordinate amount of audience awards. I've never had this experience before, even with Giant, you know, not Giant movies of the larger movies that I've made. And the, that comment has kept coming back to us is this is actually the movie I want to see on a Saturday night with my partner or with my friends. Like, this is the movie I want. This is the movie that will get me back into the movie theater.
- [30:05]
Michael Strassner
And also like the people have come up to me and like said I want to live in a world where this movie exists. And like, that's been like the sweetest compliment to do, you know.
- [30:16]
Jay Duplass
And the wild part is that everyone who came to work on this movie, it's really a self fulfilling prophecy in a way because when you can only pay people the bare minimum, they only will be there unless they want to be there, unless they really care and need to be there spiritually. So we had 15 people on the ground in Baltimore who were just like crying with us every day as we were shooting these scenes and laughing with us every day and just having the time of our lives. Like the experience of making the movie together was for us the way that I think the audience is experiencing the movie. And that's been very refreshing because it is so easy to look out into the world and get discouraged. But like it, you know, it's just a reminder that it's on us to create the beauty and the culture and the joy and the love that we want to experience every day. Like we are the manifestors of our own destiny. And you know, at the time, you know, I mean, It's a very cheap movie, but movies still cost money. And, you know, the philosophy behind it was kind of like, we're gonna lose money on this movie. You know what I mean?
- [31:36]
Rich Roll
We were kind of like, maybe we'll put it up on YouTube or something.
- [31:39]
Jay Duplass
Yes. I mean, it was like, Jay has.
- [31:40]
Michael Strassner
Told me several times, like, we're not gonna make money on this.
- [31:44]
Rich Roll
Yeah, but you're probably like, like, I don't care. I'll pay you.
- [31:47]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, exactly. Truly, I was like, how much you need from me? Like, I got a little bit in the savings, you know?
- [31:53]
Rich Roll
Yeah. That point of, like, take responsibility for creating the beauty you want to see in the world is similar to that speech that your brother gave at south by Southwest about, like, no one's coming to save you.
- [32:07]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, Calgary isn't coming.
- [32:08]
Rich Roll
It's an industry in which there's a lot of gatekeepers. And you were just mentioning, like, yeah, you gotta raise money. But, like, that power move of saying, like, we're doing this no matter what speaks to that idea that we're not waiting for permission from many of these people. And yes, the tools that are available now democratize, like, access to this kind of storytelling. It still costs money.
- [32:34]
Jay Duplass
Still costs money, but it is. But you don't need so much cheaper.
- [32:36]
Rich Roll
And I think there was once just this grand romance about making a studio film or whatever, being anointed by the powerful people in Hollywood who are kind of pulling you out of the crowd and saying, this is the next guy that feels like it's gone. Which kind of opens it up to everybody to just go out and make shit.
- [32:59]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, yeah. I mean, making stuff is. It's the most fun thing to do. And it does create your own reality. And it is exactly what you're saying that. I mean, most of the people that I know, I mean, look, we're considered an overnight success. But by the time I had made the Puffy chair, I was 31 years old. I had made three failed features. I had made a bunch of shitty short films. I had finally made a couple of short films that had some traction. So Puffy Chair was the last ditch effort for me. I mean, it was like I was, you know, had just turned 30, and I was like, I can't do this to myself anymore. I can't drag myself through this torture and my family through that. People were worried about me, you know, but ultimately I loved making movies. You know, that's what I loved doing. And I just kept doing it. And everyone that I know that is successful, it's never an overnight success story. It's attrition. It's forging forward. When all the signs even tell you you shouldn't be successful, this isn't going to work. I mean, it's similar to what you created with your podcast. It's like following people around and going into their hotel rooms with little cameras that you barely knew how to work at the time because ultimately your heart was in the right place and you knew that there were stories to tell that needed to get out there. That's what I've learned over and over again. It's weird that I've been doing this for, like, 30 years. I mean, I've only been successful for 20 of them. But it's funny, because I feel like the answer to every question at a film festival is, make an undeniably great film. Because everyone wants, how do I get this? How do I get that? How are we going to get a tiny movie distributed with no stars at a time when people are saying movies are dead, you know, like, and independent films are off off Broadway now, you know? And the answer is, I don't care. I love this guy. He has a story to tell. I will talk about Liz a little bit, but his co star, Liz Larson, I fell in love with her. I learned about her personal story and incorporated that. And I was like, this is a story that I just want to tell, and I just have to trust that it's going to go into the world. And. And contrary to what everyone was predicting, we are actually gonna make money on this movie, and we're gonna release it theatrically in movie theaters this fall. And it's totally insane. I'm sitting here talking like, I created this or believe in this philosophy. But I also doubted. I mean, I told Michael, I was like, we need to be prepared.
- [35:59]
Michael Strassner
This is not gonna sell to make no money.
- [36:01]
Jay Duplass
We need to be prepared to maybe have trouble at festivals. We need to be prepared for all these things. We just need to know that, like, we want to tell this story. It's very, very important to us. And we're gonna do this, and that's gonna be enough, and then we're gonna see where it goes.
- [36:15]
Michael Strassner
And the coolest thing was within 24 hours of us premiering at South By, I was walking down the street with Jay, and he got a text, and it was like, we got our first.
- [36:25]
Jay Duplass
Like, offer distribution, and that ended up being the one.
- [36:27]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. IFC.
- [36:35]
Rich Roll
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- [39:50]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [39:51]
Rich Roll
And just, just believing in that and doubling down on that is like inspirational. But Michael, like you mentioned, okay, the story is semi autobiographical, so, like, we gotta do a little bit of what.
- [40:05]
Michael Strassner
Happened and what it's like now.
- [40:07]
Rich Roll
Your story is pretty wild.
- [40:09]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah. You know, I grew up in Baltimore, Maryland, and everyone was always like, oh, the wire. I think it's more like hairspray, you know, got more light and fun. But, you know, grew up with my mom, my dad, two sisters. And then my parents got divorced when I was 8. And then my neighbors became my step family. So we kind of had this merger family. And, you know, like, I just didn't like being like the talk of Towson. Like, you know, our smaller, like we were kind of like everyone was talking about the Strassners and all this stuff. And also I think I put a lot of that on me. Like, you know, I think just like so many other alcoholics and addicts.
- [40:53]
Rich Roll
Meaning, like there's. There's some drama coming out of that house. Yeah, yeah.
- [40:57]
Michael Strassner
And you know, like, it, it all, it all was like a. It was a little bit of a tough, you know, upbringing and then. But when I found, ironically enough, I smoked for the first time when I was 10, little weed outside of CVS.
- [41:14]
Rich Roll
Congratulations.
- [41:14]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, it was awesome. It was actually not even behind cvs. We were at the front door to the right. So just two 10 year olds SM pot out of an apple in Baltimore, which was really great. And then the funny thing is the next day I went over my friend's house and I was like, we can smoke any kind of weed because I'm 10 years old, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. And we go to the pantry and we get dill weed out and we roll that up in computer paper and we smoke that. And we did not get high, but we like hurt our throats. And miss Pontier came home and she's like, why does it smell like matches in here? What have you been lighting? But my whole point is, once I did it, I couldn't wait to do it again. And the Same thing happened with alcohol, you know. And then ironically enough, When I was 12, I took five shots, went to a party and then threw up everywhere. That night. My mom picked me up and went to the hospital, got my stomach pumped. Like 12 at 12.
- [42:10]
Rich Roll
And that's for real.
- [42:12]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. And. And I knew that, like, I didn't feel well, but I couldn't wait to do it again. And you know, it was just more of that. And also, like, the thing that I also realized was I loved drinking and doing drugs, but I also made. I loved making my mom laugh. That was like the two things, you know. And my heroes were like Robin Williams, Chris Farley, you know, Bill Murray were all people I looked up to.
- [42:36]
Rich Roll
There's definitely some Bill Murray in this character.
- [42:38]
Michael Strassner
Oh yeah, for sure. Who? And there's some Farley, you know, physicality wise. Like, I love that this movie has physical comedy because I feel like I never see that anymore. And done like, actually, like, not like low brow, you know, but, you know, and then. But the thing is, like, growing up in Baltimore, there was really never any talk about, like, I think now it's more conversational. But like, you know, I got in a hit and run when I was 19. Cause I reached down for Crunchwrap supreme at a red light and I hit a fire hydrant and then two parked cars. And then I got out on foot and called my mom and I was like, mom, you gotta come get me. And she's like, michael, you have the car. And I was like, well, I know where it's parked. And then I came back and got arrested and everything. And my best thinking was, I guess I should join a fraternity now. You know, the opposite of like, maybe this guy's got a problem. Maybe this guy needs some help.
- [43:32]
Rich Roll
Maybe let's institutionalize this.
- [43:34]
Jay Duplass
Yes, exactly, absolutely.
- [43:37]
Michael Strassner
But like, you know, consequences really didn't happen for me. You know, I moved out to LA and like, to be a comedian, to be a comedian, you had to be an actor. And to follow in like the footsteps of my heroes, you know, I wanted to be on SNL so bad. Like, that was all I ever wanted, you know. And I got that opportunity back in 2017. I went to New York and tested twice. The second time I tested, I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll be living here. Like, this is going to be great. Great. Not sober at the time. And when I came back, I was just like super depressed. And, you know, the way the movie starts is I don't. Should we give it away or.
- [44:20]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, you, the Movie.
- [44:22]
Michael Strassner
The way the movie starts is a failed suicide attempt. And, you know, I was downstairs in my basement, and my best thinking was, I don't think I want to be here anymore. You know?
- [44:36]
Rich Roll
So on the heels of. Of not getting the snl, not getting.
- [44:39]
Michael Strassner
The snl, things just not going my way or whatever type of story I had to tell myself, and I tried to hang myself, and luckily the belt broke. And the next day was the first day I actually asked for help. And, you know, like, I just look back on that and it's like, crazy to me that, like, it could have went another way and I might not have been here.
- [45:06]
Jay Duplass
Astronomical odds that you are here.
- [45:08]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:10]
Rich Roll
The other piece that. That is similar to the story in the movie is. Is kind of getting booted out of your improv group. Right. Like, was it the Groundlings or. Yeah. So Citizens or what?
- [45:23]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. So basically what happened was I was in the Sunday Company there and they told me to take a leave of absence and you'll be welcome back with open arms.
- [45:32]
Jay Duplass
And they wanted you to get sober?
- [45:34]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, they wanted me to get sober, and so I did that. And it was like, the first time that, like, consequences were, like, there, you know, and when they said that, like, it's the best thing ever happened to me because I got sober and haven't had a drink since, you know, and.
- [45:52]
Rich Roll
So did you go to treatment or did you just, like, shut up, I don't have insurance. Go to a meeting or. How did that.
- [45:57]
Michael Strassner
How did that went to a meeting? This guy met me at a store Starbucks, and he, like, literally, I didn't understand why he was meeting me. I didn't understand, like, why he was taking time out of his day angle. What's the angle here? Yeah, and he was like, you know, someday you're gonna do for somebody else. And he took me to my first meeting on a Monday morning. And ironically enough, it was like I was driving Uber for one of my odd jobs out here. I was driving Uber and I. I picked up somebody at like 7am in the morning one time, like two years before this, and I was like, where are you headed? And she's like, I'm just going to, like, this AA because I'm so nosy, I'm going to this AA meeting. And I was like, oh, I didn't know they do that that early. That's awesome. Congrats. Hope you figure it out.
- [46:46]
Jay Duplass
Meanwhile, you're drunk driving her, probably.
- [46:49]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, exactly. And ironically enough, that's the first meeting I walked into.
- [46:53]
Rich Roll
Yeah, it was like did you clock it? Like, you remembered, like, oh, I remember I dropped somebody off here, so at least I know where that one is.
- [46:58]
Michael Strassner
Ye.
- [46:58]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [46:59]
Michael Strassner
And, you know, like, I just. I kind of, like, I didn't want to be there, you know, I did not want to be sober. I did not want. Because I was all. I was also, like, so afraid of what life looked like without this thing that I had for so long.
- [47:14]
Rich Roll
That's a huge theme that I want to, like, put a pin in that, because I want to. I want to dig into that a little bit more deeply. But before we do that, like, I suspect that there is this. You know, you mentioned Farley, right? So you're. If you're trying to, like, you know, mimic your heroes, you know, it's sort of that rock star thing. It's like, well, this is the lifestyle, man. I'm gonna go to la. And it's like you're trying to live the, like, you know, swingers, the movie lifestyle. You gotta be at these clubs and you gotta, you know, show up, post up, and be the guy, be the center of attention and all that kind of stuff that is, like, fueling your desire to be, like, seen and recognized and.
- [47:53]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, and the way you described your comedy performances at Groundlings, like, Michael was known as, like, the guy who can, like, save a sketch with, like, a topless belly flop at any point in time, you know, is just, like, sacrificing your body. Like, you know, just going nuts on stage. That was a big part of, like.
- [48:14]
Michael Strassner
There was just this one thing that I did where I was like, this Southern. I was like, this Southern gym teacher that just, like, kept on wanting to get into the glory days and, like, would just get, like, tackled and, like, sacked. Like, and I was taking hits on stage and, like, I had main company members be like, you're not actually, like. Like, like, there's mats down. I'm like, no, I'm just taking it, you know, and it's like, I just love the pain of it. Like, whatever I could do for a laugh, I would do it, you know? And, like. And I also thought that, like, I'm more funny when I'm drunk. Like, there's Those go together. Like, that's not a thing. And thank God there's, like, not any. There wasn't iPhones back in 2016 when I was going to weddings because, you know, I was the guy who would, like, put one sock on my. My foot and another sock on another appendage and then be like, anyone see my other sock? And women didn't like that. You know, like, my. My. My buddy's fiance's were like, michael has a problem. And, you know, it was just like, I just didn't want to deal with it. I was like, this is. This is what my heroes did. Like, Farley got nude. Like, Farley did, like, big physical stuff. And, like, Belushi.
- [49:23]
Rich Roll
You can just list them off. Yeah, yeah. And ironically, in every art form, too, that idea that. That drugs and alcohol are the portal to creativity, like, we know that that's not true, but it is a deeply entrenched thing, and the prospect of having to break up with that is terrifying. It's like an existential crisis. Like, you're. I won't be able to do. I have to be willing to not be able to do this thing that I love that brought me here, that I'm so invested in, in order to save my life 100%.
- [49:52]
Michael Strassner
And, like, ironically enough, the first book I read when I got sober was the Chris Farley Show. And the book opens up with him talking to a group of addicts and saying, if he can do it, anybody can do it. And I was like, I had no idea that he, you know, like, tried and, like, had time. And I read that page and I was like, okay, well, yeah, if. If he could do it, maybe I could do this. You know, like, he wasn't just a, you know, crazy drunk person. You know, he. And ironically enough, too, Tommy boy was completely sober. And it's like the best performance. I feel like I didn't know that. Yeah.
- [50:28]
Rich Roll
Yeah. So this is, like the quiet theme, you know, kind of lingering behind the scenes throughout the film. Yeah, that's, like, you know, clawing at him.
- [50:37]
Jay Duplass
Yeah. The movie is set during six months of sobriety, and that's one thing that Michael talked about a lot, is how there aren't a lot of movies about early sobriety. There's movies about what it takes to get sober, because all the wildness, you know, gets to come out in a film. But this movie really is about. About, you know, being early sober and still being an alcoholic and really not knowing how to do it. And, you know, there were so many poignant moments about that when Michael was telling me his personal story that made me want to tell this story. And, you know, one of them was, you know, his desperate fear of, like, never being funny again. That was your biggest fear in terms of getting sober is, like, being funny is everything that you were at the time and what you felt like you had to offer the world. And if you are sober, and you can't do that. Obviously, you made the decision that it wasn't worth living in that moment. But, you know, one of the things that's so amazing about Michael, and probably the linchpin of what really made me want to make this movie, is when he told me about his suicide story and how the belt broke. He told me because he was holding a little bit of holiday weight at the time, which, you know, the wherewithal of a person to be in tears, telling me about the day that he was supposed to die and also make a hilarious joke. I was like, if you don't mind, that's going in the movie, of course.
- [52:07]
Michael Strassner
You know, and, like, I realized when I would start, you know, once I had gotten some time in sobriety and, like, you know, would start sharing at meetings and such, and, like, I would start, like, hearing the room laugh about the stuff, and I was like, oh. Like, it's like, the first time I heard laughter and sobriety was in the rooms, you know, and, like, seeing people, like, open up their heart, but also, like, have a room full of alcoholics laughing at stuff or drug, you know, and it was just like, this is magic to me. Oh, I found that community that I have always wanted, you know, and. And, like, I did not do it by myself either. Like, a lot of people helped me get there, you know, Some of whom.
- [52:53]
Rich Roll
Happen to be mutual friends. Yeah, Shout out Scotty G. Always. I know he's listening and watching. Yeah, he comes up a lot.
- [53:03]
Michael Strassner
He's the best.
- [53:04]
Rich Roll
And so at this point, you have. So now what do you have? Like, six or seven.
- [53:08]
Michael Strassner
Seven years?
- [53:09]
Rich Roll
Yeah. Yeah, Seven years. Yeah.
- [53:10]
Michael Strassner
And it's just been, like. It truly has been, like, the most crazy experience ever. Like, I. I was saying this the other day is, like, all I ever wanted was, you know, get on snl, get on TV show, and, like, that's it. And, like, God, my God, whatever, you know, has taken me on this whole other journey where, like, I didn't think we were going to win the audience award. I didn't think Baltimore Hounds was going to take me all over the world and all over the country to, like, show this movie.
- [53:41]
Jay Duplass
Like.
- [53:42]
Michael Strassner
Like, that's not what I had in mind at all. And it's been so much better. And, like, that's, like, the most magical thing to me is, like, getting to experience this movie with audiences and, like, hearing them die laughing at, like. Like, I just. I sit in the theater and just like, listen, because it's just the cool. Because I don't know when I'm gonna have this experience again. And I.
- [54:05]
Rich Roll
And you get to be present.
- [54:07]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, 100%. And, like, I'm like this kind of creep that, like, kind of sits in the back and. And it's just been like the most magical.
- [54:16]
Jay Duplass
Well, it's also an incredible lesson in the idea that the worst thing that could happen to you is maybe the best thing that could happen to you. Getting fired from Groundlings, getting rejected by Saturday Night Live. You've said to me several times that a lot of your friends who have gone on to be on Saturday Night Live have said it's the most traumatic experience. Miserable traumatic experience.
- [54:40]
Michael Strassner
And I want a miserable life so bad. That's what I want to be.
- [54:44]
Jay Duplass
Take this misery to the max.
- [54:46]
Rich Roll
But it's a romantic misery.
- [54:48]
Jay Duplass
It is. But, you know, as. As you get to know people who are on Saturday Night Live, they're just like, almost didn't make it. And you've said several times, like, you really don't think you would have made.
- [54:57]
Michael Strassner
It if I went there when I was still drinking, I would be dead. Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind, because I would enjoyed the part. I mean, it would have been the party and everything.
- [55:04]
Jay Duplass
Well, it have ratcheted up what you were already doing at Groundling Sunday Company tenfold. You're on national television, and in your mind, I gotta be high as hell for this to be good. And they're not sleeping. They're not doing any of that stuff.
- [55:20]
Rich Roll
It's always easy to look through the rearview mirror and say, oh, yeah, these horrible things that happened, or you needed those in order to become the person that you are today. But of course, they're true. Also, these traumatic experiences that create all that suffering are grist for transformation. And on some level, the universe is like, no, you don't get to get that because you're fucked up, dude. And until you snap out of it and start, you know, cleaning yourself, cleaning yourself out, like, you know, we're gonna deprive you of these things because you're not ready for them. You're not prepared for them. I think the thing that gets lost, like, we live in a town where there's a lot of inspirational stories of great artists who were sort of under the belief that, like, drugs and alcohol were required in order for them to, like, share their gift. They get sober and then their careers blossom. Right. But as anybody who's in these rooms knows, the only thing that you are guaranteed for not drinking and using is to be sober. It's not like you do it to get these things, but you're provided with the opportunity to become this more self actualized person. And that puts you in a position to become available for a bigger and more beautiful life. You get the chance to chase your dream because of that, but you're not guaranteed, guarantee the dream 100%.
- [56:46]
Michael Strassner
I mean, like, I heard other people share their morning routines in those rooms and I stole those morning routines from people. You know, like I get up every day at 4 and I get on my knees, I make a prayer, I do my meditation, I journal, I read a new chapter of a book every day. I go to the gym and exercise and then I work for an hour on my work, whatever that is writing, you know, and then I hit a meeting every single day and that's all before 8:30am and, and all that stuff I feel like is again, the only way I'm allowed to do that is cause I'm sober. And I think like when I put sobriety first, then the rest of the stuff, the cash and prizes don't come. But you're, you can actually work hard and get the things or get the things that you want, the dreams that you want, you go and chase them yourself with, you know, sobriety on your back.
- [57:40]
Rich Roll
And then the challenge becomes when you get your dream, which you're getting right now, like how do you, how do you maintain, maintain sobriety as your, as your first priority and not suddenly become captured by all the, all the kind of fancy things that are going to be dangled in front of your face now?
- [57:57]
Michael Strassner
Well, I've got to stay grounded. I got a lot of people without me humble. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I got a lot of people that keep me humble, you know, like I've got a great core group of friends that like, you know, just are there for me. And I also, like, I help out a lot of people by, by offering my time and sponsorship, you know. And you know, I, I personally love when I get a phone call from anyone because it gets me out of my own self and gets me out of like, why am I not going out for that? You know, all the stuff that the industry that I'm in can take up my whole entire day and get me all crazy, you know, instead find a way to be of service, you know, and that can be with my partner, with everybody. But you know, another cool thing is like the movie had like all my family in it. So like they keep me grounded a lot too. And they're like, yeah, you're just from Baltimore, you're Not anything that big, you know, But.
- [58:54]
Jay Duplass
Although I think their eyes were pretty wide open at south by Southwest.
- [58:58]
Rich Roll
Yes. Yes. They all come for the.
- [59:00]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's so funny. I'll do this quick story. My. My mom's sitting one seat over from me, and she's in the first five minutes of the movie. She plays Darlene, Brittany's mom, and she's watching, watching. And she comes on screen, and she just goes, oh. And she forgot she was in it.
- [59:19]
Jay Duplass
She was in it.
- [59:20]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [59:20]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [59:21]
Michael Strassner
And I was like, come on, Mom. And then. And then my dad came to another screening, and my dad and my stepmom were so sweet. They came to the Saturday one, and my dad is just in my ear, going, there's Marty, there's Allison, there's. Oh, there's Chris. And I'm like, dad, this is not a private screening. You can't just be saying everybody that you're seeing on the screen. Like. And then it was just so cool because, like. And, like, in all honesty, like, this is what's gonna keep. Like, that whole day on Saturday, we got to do press and do all these things like, that I've never done before, take pictures and, you know, get to do all that. It was. It was a blast. The coolest thing about doing that whole was having my family next to me and, like, watching this movie that we worked so hard on, like, seeing that was like, that's my dreams. Like, my mom's finally seeing her son up there on the big screen. And, like, that's. That keeps me here, you know?
- [60:18]
Rich Roll
Except for your brother.
- [60:20]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [60:21]
Rich Roll
Who. Who wasn't able to make it.
- [60:23]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [60:24]
Rich Roll
Which is another big piece in all of this.
- [60:27]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. Yeah. That was. You know, that was a year into my sobriety. I had a year and two days, and I got a phone call from my dad. Dad. And my dad said, zach is no longer among the living. And, you know, like, I didn't know what to do. So I. I called up my. My sponsor. He came over. He helped me book a flight. I went home, and, like, I put my one year chip in the casket with Zach because he had time in the program to. And I just, like, showed up and be of service, you know, how can I help people there? And it was brutal. You know, like, he was 33. It's like, the same age as, like, you know, Farley and Belushi, and, like. And he really tried at this. And, like, that's the thing is, like, I don't understand why. I get it. And he doesn't and you know, when I came back to la, I went to my meeting and I just like, was the first hand up raised and I just shared. I just went back to Baltimore. I just, you know, had to bury my brother and I went back to my seat and the guy that had his arms wrapped around me was my friend's Zach. And like, that's God to me, you know, that's Zach saying I'm okay up there or wherever he is, you know, Is that. Yeah, it's like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a messed up disease and you know, like it's been riddled in my family. Like my, my, my granddaughter dad died in an accident, a car accident, was drinking and driving, you know, and. But if I can stay sober, then if people that need it in my family, they have someone to call, you know, and I can change the. And it's not. And I, I don't want to have ego involved with like changing the narrative of a family. But like, I just, Just love being sober so much that I, you know.
- [62:52]
Rich Roll
Well, you could change a living example and that's powerful in interrupting that kind of generational, you know, kind of continuation of this pattern. But there's real beauty and humility in not being like, oh, I got sober and I moved to Hollywood and now I'm doing my thing. Like, the movie is a love letter to Baltimore and to like, these people, like real people are in it. People that, you know, Mostly real people.
- [63:23]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, my whole family, maybe, because you.
- [63:24]
Rich Roll
Didn'T have to pay them, but. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was, it gives it a real authenticity, you know, And I think there is a maturity and a humility in your performance because on some level, like, as a comedian, like, there is a flex, like you're gonna do your thing and you've got like your bits and stuff like that, that. But you're never over your skis on it. Like, it's never in a, like, hey, look at me showy way. Like, it's always very, you know, integrated in germane to, you know, character development and plot. And it just felt like a less mature performer given this opportunity would be like, you know, kind of, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm taking it all the way, you know, and there was that sense of like, this guy could probably, you know, push the accelerator on this and he's not doing that.
- [64:17]
Michael Strassner
That's him.
- [64:18]
Rich Roll
Yeah. Or he's holding you back from that. He's. He's saving you from that fate.
- [64:23]
Michael Strassner
Well, he Just kind of like he gave me the best acting note I've ever gotten where it was just like. And it's so such a. He just said, you're enough, like you're great. Like, just stay in it.
- [64:34]
Jay Duplass
Just be you, just be real. I mean, that's the greatest compliment is, you know, it's. Is that the comedy is germane to the story. Because what I've found over the years, at least for the kinds of movies that I make, is that if I can tell a real honest story and it's dramatic and people are behaving very naturally, the comedy that emanates from that, it lives in the heart. You know what I mean? It's not like brain comedy. I mean. Cause of course a gag is a gag and will always laugh, but. But like when the comedy lives in the heart, it just like resonates and it's additive over time. You know, it just builds over time when you love that person more and more. And I think it works both ways. I think comedy also opens hearts. So it's like a symbiotic relationship. But I mean, Michael trusted me and he's inherently just funny. He's just funny to watch. It's funny to watch him do stuff. And that's what we really did is just created scenarios for him to operate in and for him to be desperate in those scenarios because, you know, you certainly in the first six months of sobriety, have not shed your desperation yet. And if anything, it's at a fever pitch because you don't have the alcohol to mask it. Obviously you're desperate when you're an alcoholic, but, you know, so we were just trying to capture that. And, you know, that's a great compliment. I appreciate that.
- [66:05]
Rich Roll
One of the more popular podcast episodes of the last five years was the one I did on the benefits of Sprouting with my very energetic longtime buddy Doug Evans, who at the time this was back in June of 2020, had just released a best selling book on the subject called the Sprout Book, and has kind of gone on from there to become this sort of chief evangelist of the entire planet on all matter sprouting. He really hit a nerve in that conversation because ever since then, ever since it aired, I've just been inundated with people sharing photos of their sprouting setups. Kitchens turned into beautiful sprouting farms, and all these stories of health transformations, Doug's message set in motion. Since then, interest in sprouting has only grown, and this is in part due to growing awareness around the Evidence based science that Dr. Rhonda Patrick shared on my show a while back about the nutritious superpowers of broccoli sprouts, which are loaded with sulforaphane and antioxidants and other types of sprouts that support our bodily systems and mitochondria in ways that are truly substantial. The crazy thing is how easy and inexpensive it is to grow these tiny seeds like baby broccoli, alfalfa and lentils into these tiny plant bunches bursting with concentrated nutrition at home in just a few days time. But apparently not easy enough, Doug realized, because not nearly enough people seem to be doing it. Doug saw the problem and set about fixing it by founding the sprouting company and creating an even easier all in one solution. What he did is create the world's first high capacity all in one sprouter, making the entire process more convenient. Also beautiful and super safe and very much affordable. Now you can pack your plate with living foods high in B vitamins, iron and sulforaphane, one of the most studied plant compounds for cellular health and detox, all for under a dollar a serving, pesticide free and guaranteed to grow. The thing that Doug taught me is that sprouts are not a garnish. They can be a much larger part of a meal or if you're like Doug, the entire meal. I put them on salads, of course, but I also blend them into my smoothies and sometimes I just eat them by the handful. Doug has really created something special that can make a gigantic difference in your personal health that will actually save you money over time. And the time is right now to check it out because he and the team at the sprouting company have put together something special for this community. 10% off to get you started and a free copy of the sprout book for the first 1000 orders. Just go to thesproutingcompany.com richroll and use the code richroll. In a world that's just absolutely flooded with tech for tech's sake, it's pretty rare to find innovation that truly elevates, that serves the human not just in body, but also in soul. And that's why I stand behind on a brand that's pushing technology forward with intention to create elevated gear that elevates us all. Consider Lightspray, this incredible breakthrough in next gen high performance shoe technology that replaces laces with a revolutionary ultralight single piece upper that moves with you, not against you. Tested with elite athletes designed for anyone who values performance without compromise. Head to on.com richrole to experience technology driven performanceware. Jay, I really need to know what happened to your career as a running influencer and content creator? Because there was a stretch there where you were like sharing your runs every day on Instagram.
- [69:47]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [69:48]
Rich Roll
And that seems to have precipitously dropped off.
- [69:51]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, I was doing a daily run log. I'm. I mean, so first of all, my dad was a marathoner. I grew up under like, you know, he. He was a marathoner in the late 70s in like the special American heyday of American distance running. I mean, now we're in a bigger heyday, but I was just obsessed with it. I ran in high school, I didn't run in college. I went to University of Texas and it was kind of like one of the few schools that I couldn't run at. But yeah, I kind of came back to running. I mean, I've always run on and off my whole life. But yeah, I was trying to really make a comeback and run every day and I drove my body into the ground, mainly just because as we were talking, I'm a workaholic and, you know, I don't have a lot of wiggle room in my life in general. Like, there's just, you know, being married, I got two kids. You know, I have a partnership with my brother. I'm making a lot of movies. I'm mentoring other people to help help them make movies.
- [70:50]
Michael Strassner
You got dogs?
- [70:51]
Jay Duplass
I got two dogs. You know, it's just it. I just got really beat up. And our common friend Alexi Pappas has actually offered to like, coach me. And I was like, I don't know if I can go there yet. You know what I mean?
- [71:04]
Rich Roll
Because it creates a little bit of a. Accountability.
- [71:08]
Jay Duplass
There's accountability.
- [71:09]
Rich Roll
Live up to, right?
- [71:10]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure I could live up to it, but I do love it. It's like, like it's kind of my church, you know, I mean, right now it's just walking and jogging and, you know, just trying to get out in nature as much as possible. But I did have a lot of people loving just seeing someone run every day. It was a weird. There's nothing super special about it, but I think there was something, you know, accountability wise about it. It's just like you wake up and this one guy is going to run every day, you know, which I did for about six months.
- [71:42]
Rich Roll
Months.
- [71:42]
Jay Duplass
And then I was like, honestly, my body just broke down and I didn't have the wherewithal or the time or the energy to get the supports to move through it and to take care of myself as I did it, which is that's what you need to do if you want to run every day.
- [71:57]
Rich Roll
Well, this is the dilemma for the ambitious, successful person who wants to do all things and is very capable in many ways. But you strike me as somebody who over commits themselves. When you look at your IMDb I thought I had beat on like all your projects and I was like, I haven't heard of 80% of these shows that you executive produce. Like, it's insane.
- [72:21]
Jay Duplass
Neither am I how many things you're involved with.
- [72:24]
Rich Roll
So like you live inside a very crowded mind, I would imagine.
- [72:28]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, I, it definitely like my brother and I, you know, we grew up in the suburbs of New Orleans and we, you know, we, we loved movies growing up. We were obsessed with everything coming down the pipe of hbo. It was like a momentous day. The day that cable came to our neighborhood. We didn't know what it meant. We thought like literally a big cable was gonna be laid across our lawns to bring all these wonderful television shows and movies in particular. But you know, at that time when we were growing up, it was New Orleans. So we basically thought the only way to be an artist was to be like a 60 year old blues black man, you know, touring Europe. We tried to do that. We failed at that. And then, you know, we, we went whole hog into movies. And honestly it felt like, I guess, a little bit like immigrants to film culture. Because, you know, we weren't Coppola kids. We didn't know anybody who made movies. We had no idea how we would access it. We were just, you know, making movies on VHS in the 80s when we were kids. But we had this, this kind of lucky moment where I went to the University of Texas in 1991, and this is when Robert Rodriguez and Richard Linklater each had made a $20,000 feature film. And we didn't have $20,000, but that was an amount of money that we can like get our heads around. Like, oh, that seems doable one day. And, and Rick and Robert were also guys who were walking around Austin, Texas wearing jeans and T shirts and going to coffee shops and talking about movies. And so that's what kind of like birthed this idea that we could come into this world and make films and maybe have a career doing it, but it still felt far away. So this is all just to say that we feel like we don't belong. I know you've had that journey too. It's just like what am I doing here? We feel like we invented this thing that we're doing because we kind of were the first generation of, like, DV filmmakers who, you know, Our first feature film, the puffy chair, was $10,000. I mean, it was, like, shot digitally and literally was the story of our lives in that moment. Very Sean Baker style in that moment, which is like, this is all the money we have, and this is the only story we have to offer, you know, which is just like, our pathetic desperation around wanting to be successful and what it means to be in a relationship in your 20s, which is what that film was about. So, yeah, I, I I've spent a lot of time putting my head down and just, like, not allowing myself to really come up for air. And now that I'm 50, I'm like, okay. How can I turn off that impulse, you know, that desperate instinct to just create and to be successful? Because volume was a big part. Like you were saying, volume was a big part of us finding our way. Because we wanted to be the Coen Brothers. I mean, that's what everybody wanted to be in the early 90s coming up as filmmakers. We failed at that. They're very good at what they do, by the way. Like, don't try to be the Coen Brothers, you know? So it just took us a long time to figure out our style and what we uniquely had to offer. And I'm 52 now, and I'm still having a really hard time turning off that desperate impulse to just continuously make things. And, you know, I mean, I'm. This year has been amazing. I've acted in a bunch of stuff. But literally four months ago, I had no prospects for any work whatsoever. I had no jobs.
- [76:32]
Rich Roll
That's hard to believe.
- [76:33]
Michael Strassner
No, it's true.
- [76:34]
Rich Roll
Truly.
- [76:34]
Jay Duplass
I had no offers, at least. I mean, there's always possibilities, and I can create stuff for myself, but I had no offers. So, I mean, I was talking to Michael about it, like, four months ago. I was like.
- [76:44]
Michael Strassner
I was like, you're gonna be fine, bud.
- [76:46]
Jay Duplass
Don't worry. But I, you know, I had no way. I had no guarantee to make money. So that's kind of what I'm struggling with right now.
- [76:54]
Rich Roll
A story that works. Like, how do you figure that out? You know? How do you know when the story is working, when it is heartfelt and all of those things? Like, this is, like, a very difficult art form that I think people fail to fully appreciate.
- [77:15]
Jay Duplass
That's nice. I agree with you. And I think that there is a sort of, like, misperception and that's why there's so much challenge in Hollywood is that, you know, because we all watch movies, we can make movies, but it is an incredibly complex art form. And very specifically, what you're saying, like the. The plot of a movie that's actually going to work. And part of that is a lot of experience and a lot of failure. A lot of failure on my part and making movies that had some fun things and some great scenes and they were funny and stuff, but in the end, it didn't get you there. It didn't really deliver. Something that made you look at life in a whole new way. It's incredibly tall order. That's where I spend most of my time, is just. Just conceiving a movie. You know, conceiving like, what is the structure of a movie? What is the scaffolding that's going to build that's going to pay off when you get there? And then the rest of it is like sobriety. It is constant vigilance and nudges and creating positivity and, you know, jumping off of cliffs when you don't know if there's going to be warm water down there, might be jagged rocks. And. And. And like you guys are saying, like, being an exemplar for everybody else as a director, you know, I think one of the best things that you can do is just like. Is just like shore yourself up with confidence in the morning. Not the kind of confidence that's like fake or whatever, but just that just like, I believe in this movie. I believe in what we're doing. And when you believe in what you're doing and you go forth with love, it creates itself, you know, so it really, really is. Especially on a tiny movie where, you know, you're just kind of wandering around Baltimore and you're part. You're parking a white van.
- [79:10]
Rich Roll
Were you running and gunning or were you. Did you have permits and stuff like that? I mean, there were scenes where cars are driving and there's no other cars.
- [79:16]
Jay Duplass
Around, so I assume they whatsoever. Now, the amazing or something. No, I mean, that's one of the. No, no shutting streets. Nothing was shut down. We have a. We have a scene that was filmed on what's called 34th street in Baltimore, which is a Christmas tree avenue where all houses light their houses up and people are just walking around. And we just shot there and we, you know, we did dialogue replacement. We did all kinds of stuff. But the amazing thing about Baltimore is that a permit to shoot on the street for a month is $65.
- [79:46]
Rich Roll
45.
- [79:47]
Jay Duplass
45.
- [79:48]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. $45.
- [79:50]
Jay Duplass
And I told Mark and my producers back in LA and they were like, $45 a day is incredible. I'm like, 45 total. 45 total for the entire month. So as long as you are not in a street, as long as. So it's a very friendly place to shoot a movie. And that was a big part of it too, is just like being out of la, which people are talking about it a lot right now. LA has become very bloated. It's become very expensive. The permits are expensive. If you want to shoot in a drugstore in LA, it costs like $30,000 because everyone's savvy and so many big things have shot here. So part of the movie was also just going to Baltimore so that we could have summer camp and make a movie, the Download. But I mean, for sure, we were in some questionable neighborhoods at three in the morning. And, you know, I mean, crazy. We did some crazy things. We, we, we had to get a Cadillac from, from, from. From a trailer park where there was.
- [80:47]
Michael Strassner
And I was like, I'm gonna get J.D. plasse killed right here.
- [80:49]
Jay Duplass
There were.
- [80:49]
Rich Roll
Well, it's sort of the meta. The, the meta story to the kind of after hours aspect of this movie. Like, there is a sort of, you know, it all takes place like there's this weird adventure at night and all different. They're encountering all different kinds of people.
- [81:02]
Michael Strassner
Well, and like, even like, you know, the house at the end of the movie, we had to get like another black door. Like that matched. Well, I don't want to give anything away, but just had to match doors. And I look over this woman kind of coming out of the door, and I look at her door. I was like, okay, that's a black door. And I was like, aj, I'm going to ask this woman if we can use her house for the end shot. And went over and I was like, hey, we're shooting a movie down there. Like, is there any way we could use your front door? And to be the exterior, she was like, yeah, I'm just hanging out all day. Love to help out. So, like, the end of the movie.
- [81:34]
Jay Duplass
Was just like, it would never happen in la. She was like, rearranging plants on people's stoops for us.
- [81:40]
Michael Strassner
She hang out with Liz, like the whole afternoon.
- [81:42]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, like, our lead actress was like.
- [81:45]
Michael Strassner
Didn'T they got each other's number?
- [81:46]
Jay Duplass
It was freezing cold. So she was able to. We used her bathroom. I mean, it was just the whole shoot Was an all night adventure in Baltimore. Just like the movie is. It was like, you know, art. Our life mimicking art, actually, you know, it was like a weird cycle.
- [82:03]
Michael Strassner
And people saying, I mean, that sound corny, but people saying like, yes, and how can I help? And you know, like, that's what I. I mean, I feel like I learned so much about producing from Jay. Was just like, just call, see what they say. You know, the worst thing anyone's gonna say is no. So you might as well just take a shot. And you know, that took a lot of shots. You took a lot of shots.
- [82:22]
Rich Roll
You mentioned that for you, Baltimore is much more hairspray than the Wire. I mean, you know, John Waters is the ambassador. Ambassador of Baltimore. Like he's. Yeah, like there's no contest here. And he went to a screening.
- [82:36]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, he was in P town.
- [82:37]
Rich Roll
Have you met him before?
- [82:38]
Michael Strassner
First time ever. He's met my niece because my mom used to work at the store limited, which is a old store in Baltimore that shut down this year. But he took a picture with my niece at six months old. So we have a picture of John with the baby and then now me and John. But you know, she, you know, he would come into the store a lot and when I first went out to la, my mom was like, dress up.
- [83:00]
Rich Roll
Just when he's like walking around.
- [83:02]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, I want to know what he's.
- [83:02]
Jay Duplass
Wearing on a Tuesday.
- [83:04]
Rich Roll
What is a day in the life?
- [83:05]
Michael Strassner
I mean, very similar, like this jacket. Probably like something like this, like cozy.
- [83:08]
Jay Duplass
He's not wearing an ascot and like a purple kimono.
- [83:11]
Rich Roll
He does.
- [83:13]
Michael Strassner
He did get a scarf for his mom like every year for Christmas there. Like, that's really okay. But my mom being my mom, she was like, you know, my son just moved out to Los Angeles. Do you have any advice for him? He wants to be an actor.
- [83:25]
Rich Roll
Actor.
- [83:25]
Michael Strassner
And she go, he goes, yeah, tell him to get another hobby.
- [83:29]
Jay Duplass
Did you tell him that story when you met him?
- [83:31]
Michael Strassner
And then he went, I don't know if I said that. And I was like, you did? My mom would not. Yeah, but yeah, he was like, those.
- [83:38]
Rich Roll
Are the moments, man.
- [83:39]
Michael Strassner
Well, and he came to the screening and he sat during the Q and A and everything. And he asked a question during the Q and A, which was like, so cool. He was like, how did you film on 34th Street? I've been wanting to shoot there forever. How'd you do it?
- [83:53]
Rich Roll
It's a technical question.
- [83:54]
Jay Duplass
Technical question.
- [83:56]
Michael Strassner
And I was like, we had a permit that we could shoot on the street and it was all good. And he was like, ah, man, I wish I thought of that. And then he asked about the Key Bridge because the Key Bridge is in it. And that's.
- [84:07]
Jay Duplass
That's the bridge that came down, like, a few months after we shot it.
- [84:10]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [84:10]
Rich Roll
Oh, I didn't. I forgot about that.
- [84:12]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [84:12]
Jay Duplass
It's wild that we have a sort of iconic. It's sort of our Manhattan Bridge or a Brooklyn Bridge shot as an ode to Baltimore, which is the Key Bridge, which you insisted on getting, even though we were. It was 18 degrees in the middle of the night.
- [84:27]
Michael Strassner
And I was like, let's get it. Let's get it.
- [84:29]
Jay Duplass
Got to get this shot.
- [84:30]
Michael Strassner
And it's the most. And it's one of my favorite shots of the movie because it just looks so beautiful and it's Christmas Eve night, and it's just, like, stunning. And he asked. He was like, how. How early on before, like, how many months ago did you shoot that before it fell? And I was like, two months in December. And he was like, you know, the Wall Street Journal called me asking for comment when the bridge fell, and I was like, what do you want me to say? I've driven on it. I was like, that's great. But, yeah, it's like. It's the coolest thing to, like, have somebody that's a legend of mine growing up and seeing all his movies and, like, him coming to a screening of Baltimore Hounds was like, yeah, it's really beautiful. Yeah. Next level.
- [85:09]
Rich Roll
What are. What are some of your storytelling or filmmaking rules? You know, that. That might be, you know, interesting for the average person who's just a movie watch, you know, when it comes to, like. Because I asked you about, like, what makes a great story or how do you know when you have a great story?
- [85:26]
Jay Duplass
I mean, my first rule is make movies, not meetings. All the kids that come to me and they want to pick my brain, they're like, how do you get it done? And I'm like, you make movies. And their fear is that they're not ready and that they're going to be bad. And my answer is always, yes, they are. They're going to be bad. And, you know, to dispel the myth that someone wakes up in the morning, they go to the bathroom, and either a great movie comes out or. Or. Or a bad movie comes out. You know, I think it's. It is still relatively a new art form. So, for instance, you know, if you knew. If you had friends who went to art school and were painters in college, like, there's Not a painter in the world that would expect to sell a painting until they've done at least 500, you know what I mean? At least for, like, a decent amount of money, you. Maybe your friend will be nice to you and give you 50 bucks, you know what I mean? But that's a given that as a painter, you're going to paint 500 paintings before you're actually going to be up in a gallery, and people are going to buy your paintings for thousands of dollars, for instance. So, you know, I try to tell people, just make bad art. Make a lot of bad art. I thought I was going to be the Coen Brothers. I thought that's what I wanted to be. It turns out stylistically, I'm the total opposite. I shoot in a documentary style. I work, work with no control. I'm out in the street in Baltimore trying not to get shot while I'm, like, running down the street filming this man, you know? And that had to be. I had to be hit over the head with that. I had to. You know, my sort of origin story for. For finding out what I uniquely had to offer the world was when I was ready to quit, and my brother was like, we're shooting something today, and we got a tiny video camera, and we shot this short film about him trying to perfect the personal greeting of his answering machine and failed to do so and had a nervous breakdown, because that's what happened to me the week before.
- [87:21]
Rich Roll
For people who aren't intimately familiar with your career, though, what gets missed in that is the fact that, yeah, you didn't become the Coen Brothers. You're of the generation. There's the Soderberg, these rock star directors, and the aspiring director is like, someday and when. And you don't know what your thing is or your style is yet. You're gonna, of course, like, copy the people who inspire you, but by just like, hey, we're shooting today no matter what. You guys are responsible in large part for actually creating an entire new genre called mupplecore. I don't know what your relationship or feelings are about that now, but the Coen brothers can't say that.
- [88:07]
Jay Duplass
That, yeah, it is odd that we are the godfathers of a filmmaking movement that we didn't make up ourselves. You know, it's we.
- [88:18]
Rich Roll
But anybody who would create a genre or a movement didn't do so because they were trying to. It was authentic, like sort of out, you know, outgrowth of whatever it was they were doing.
- [88:29]
Jay Duplass
The press and film professors essentially decide what happened. But, yeah, we were at the very early stages of the first time digital video became good enough to look at to where you could actually broadcast it, you know, and you could actually transfer it to film and it would look decent. So we were. I mean, honestly, it can be. And that. That's a testament to just staying the course. But, like, the moment we made our first decent film was the same time that they came out with this camera called the Panasonic AG DVX100. I still know it to this day, even though that number is ridicul, because it was a revolution for myself and for so many other people. And oddly enough, I mean, we premiered the Puffy Chair at Sundance, but it was, oddly enough, at south by Southwest that four or five other filmmakers just like Mark and me, were there with movies shot on that very same camera. And they were movies that were very specifically about our lives and the stories that we had to offer. You know, no one. One was there with a movie that cost more than $20,000. And the press got a hold of it, and they were like, something is happening. Something is clearly happening here. And, you know, at the time, it felt weird because we were just trying to make a movie that didn't suck, frankly. That's what we were trying to do. But it was incredible at the time because we got written up in the New York Times as part of a movie, and we were being called the Godfathers of the movement because our movie had a lot of legs to it, and that was odd. And now we're in a lot of textbooks. I have a lot of professors calling, and they want to interview us because they're writing something strictly academic, and they want to talk to us about it. So it's very cool. It's very dramatic. But, you know, what's wild about it is, like, you know, I wanted to be the Coen brothers, but I also love John Cassavetes, and I always wanted to. I just thought it would be so cool to be, like, iconic. But as I'm in it, I don't feel that way. I'm still just trying to make a movie that doesn't suck.
- [90:47]
Rich Roll
They would say the same, I'm sure.
- [90:49]
Jay Duplass
I think so. I think so. I mean. Because even the greats. I mean, the Coen brothers have some questionable films out there, you know, and it is such a tough form. I know. How dare me. I know. But it is such a difficult form, and I think, you know, you gotta have beginner's mindset. You have to have it, because no matter what movie you're making. You're this close to making a movie that doesn't work. You know, everything has to really come together for something to be beautiful and transcendent and funny and heartfelt and all the things that you want a movie to be.
- [91:24]
Rich Roll
Has there ever been a movie or a show that you've been involved in or that you were making where there was. There wasn't a moment where you were like, this is a fucking disaster, like this is never gonna work, or that first or whatever, where you're like, there's.
- [91:39]
Jay Duplass
Never been a moment.
- [91:40]
Rich Roll
It's never going to come together.
- [91:42]
Jay Duplass
There's always comes at some point where you're like, oh no. Oh no, this is maybe not gonna work. We had that moment with the Baltimore ons. Our critical scene, which is filmed at a comedy club where Michael and Liz, our two leads, go up on stage and essentially flop and have to figure out how to work their way out of a bad sketch. Essentially that scene, we filmed it. It was our toughest scene. We spent two days and two nights filming that scene. And it didn't work. It did not work. And it wasn't a disaster. Like I would say it made the movie a B. And Michael and I were like, we want an A. We will not. You know. And so we went back to Baltimore in the middle of the summer to refilm that scene. But it took us months to reconceive it and to figure out what that scene really needed to be. It's really the linchpin of the whole movie.
- [92:44]
Rich Roll
And what was the unlock like? What was the shift that you realized would make it work?
- [92:49]
Jay Duplass
The unlock, which is a little inside baseball. But when you see the film, you'll know was ultimately that, like, you know, you learn about these movies, tell you what they need as you go along, and the more you can respond, the better. But what we learned is that, you know, Michael's character helped Liz through the most challenging thing she could imagine doing, which was to go to her ex husband's house during Christmas and face everyone so that she could be with her daughter and her granddaughter. And it's just something that was unimaginable to her. And we realized that that scene from Michael was the moment where Liz would be there for him and that them just. Yes. And ing each other and staying on stage, which, you know, during this movie, going back on stage is the thing that he feels like he can't do. That's over. That part of his life is over. So she helps him rediscover, ultimately that he can Be funny, sober and that. And then when it's over, he realizes that it's actually better than it's ever been. So, you know, we. There were some widgets in that scene that were really challenging in terms of, like, originally, he was funny in the scene, but what we realized is that he had to fail and that she needed to show up for him and the way he showed up for her. So that was a tough reshoot. It was like 100 degrees in that. That room in the summer.
- [94:17]
Michael Strassner
I had to cut all my high school buddies that were in the last scene.
- [94:20]
Rich Roll
Yeah, it definitely works, but, yeah, the movie pivots on that. Like, he's got to be the guy. Unless he crushes that scene, she's not on board for the whole other part of the movie that follows 100%.
- [94:35]
Jay Duplass
And it really had to build more. Yeah. And I'm very confident that we would not have won the audience award at south by Southwest if we had not reached shot that tough thing. And it's. You know, it's. It's exp. It was our most expensive scene. You know, we had 30 or 40 extras. I know it sounds tiny, but it's just. It's. It's a lot, you know, and, you know, we. We. We. We did pay. I mean, we paid everyone minimally, but we did pay everybody our SAG minimums. Just because, you know, we want to be, you know, above board. We can't do what we did on Puffy Chair, you know, where you just.
- [95:08]
Michael Strassner
Your parents were in it, and they.
- [95:09]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, well, we still did your parents in it, but we did pay them.
- [95:12]
Michael Strassner
Yes, exactly.
- [95:14]
Rich Roll
If you were making Puffy Chair today or you were where you were at prior to making that movie, but it's today you guys become YouTubers.
- [95:26]
Jay Duplass
Oh, yeah, we're YouTubers.
- [95:27]
Rich Roll
You're like, oh, yeah, you would just be making stuff all the time. This is the ethos. Like, you're just making stuff all the time. Moving forward, moving forward, moving forward. It would have been immediately obvious that YouTube was going to be the place where you were going to tell your story.
- [95:44]
Jay Duplass
100%, it would be YouTube. And in fact, our agents at CAA have recommended many, many times that we start a YouTube channel. You know, I would watch your.
- [95:53]
Rich Roll
Whatever, you guys.
- [95:53]
Jay Duplass
That's really nice. I mean, maybe that will happen one day. But, you know, I think the tricky part, too, is, is that, you know, you know, if you. If you create a YouTube channel and you run a YouTube channel, you become the manager of a television channel or a web channel. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You become.
- [96:12]
Rich Roll
It's a whole thing.
- [96:13]
Jay Duplass
It's a whole thing.
- [96:15]
Rich Roll
And if you're gonna do it.
- [96:16]
Jay Duplass
Absolutely. And the thing that I think I've realized more than anything about my life is that my childhood dream of being a writer director has never changed. I've flexed and I've accidentally become an actor. And I've had to produce my movies so that they could be made the way that I need them to be made. And then of course, like, I've been lucky enough to work with a lot of up and coming young people and all kinds of different voices and help them do their thing. But I think in like the sort of like back nine of my career, I'm realizing this is what I really want to do, is write and direct films. And so just I want to put all my creative energy into that, you know, because that giving everything you've got in that, there's still no guarantee that you can keep going.
- [97:07]
Rich Roll
Sure. Michael, I'm curious about your perspective on this. We are in this weird era right now where movies and television are up in the air, movies are dead, people aren't going to the theaters, and yet when you turn on your smart tv, it's just like you just can't believe how much choice you have. And people are saying, oh, there's no jobs, everyone's out of work and everyone la. And then you're like, yeah, but who's making the 7,000 shows that seem to premiere every week across all of these platforms? So it's a bizarre time. The economic model behind all of this, the engine is very much in transition, but because the gatekeepers have been completely removed, at least on platforms like ecosystem, YouTube, you have an entire generation of young people who are just making stuff all the time and they're learning intuitively how to tell a good story or what works or what doesn't. And like you're making these short videos on your social media and all of that, which you have to imagine is going to create a lot of really talented creators who will eventually go on to make feature films or series television or whatever. We're already seeing, seeing some people do that. Who are those Australian brothers directors, those guys, like, who just did the hot new thing. They have that. Don't they have a movie coming out?
- [98:40]
Michael Strassner
It was out in June.
- [98:40]
Rich Roll
Oh, no, the.
- [98:42]
Michael Strassner
It's with what's Her Face.
- [98:44]
Rich Roll
I know what you're talking about. I haven't seen the movie.
- [98:46]
Michael Strassner
It was great. It was great.
- [98:47]
Jay Duplass
And Ava Victor, who has. Sorry, baby. It's the big hit out of Sundance this year, she got a. A24 release. And, you know, she originally was an Instagram influencer who, you know, turns out is an incredible filmmaker.
- [99:02]
Rich Roll
Yeah, but what we haven't seen is what your. Your agents suggested that you guys do. Like, see, like, legitimate veteran filmmakers, directors who have been in Hollywood forever, go to YouTube and make. Make some interesting, cool stuff.
- [99:19]
Jay Duplass
We've done it on. On a less extreme scale because, you know, our. Our fourth and fifth movies were Hollywood movies. They were Fox, Searchlight and Paramount movies. They were seven and a half and $10 million, respectively. And at that point in time, we realized, man, we actually enjoy making the little ones better. And they make us just as much money because we own them. Of course, they're big risks. So we kind of. Kind of, like, receded from, like, that Hollywood pathway. The idea is, like, you go to Sundance with a couple of films, and then you start working with Searchlight, and then you start working with. You move up to focus. You know what I mean? It's like a very, very clear path of what a lot of people did, but not really a lot, like, you know, 25 people, because it's a very narrow.
- [100:12]
Rich Roll
Well, it's just a pipeline to Marvel or dc.
- [100:15]
Jay Duplass
That's absolutely what it was. And my brother and I definitely got offered some really big crazy stuff that we turned down because we realized, you know, yeah, we were courted by Marvel. We were courted by, like, the Focker franchise. We were courted by, you know, we were offered the dictator to direct. There were a lot of people who were very interested in us, not only because we did good dramatic comedy, but we were known as, like, really good guys who could work with challenging people if need be, you know, because that's a huge part of this franchise. It's a very underrated skill, and nobody thinks about it, but you get in Hollywood and you start hearing about it real fast and, you know, and you feel it, you know, like a lot of these big comedies, for instance, are not about making the best movie. You have a franchise, and your job is not. Of course, they want it to be as funny and as heartfelt as it can be, but your job is actually moving a movie from A to Z over the course of three years without anybody murdering anybody else. You know what I mean? And there are a lot of directors that are known for their person murder. Yeah. And personality management, you know, and that was really tough for Mark and me because, you know, big studios didn't really want to make exactly what we wanted to make. At a higher budget. They wanted to suck us up into their world and use our skills to. To, like, essentially get their franchises made, you know, without murder. And ultimately, we turned away from that because we just did not. You know, we just wanted to make original art. And we had suffered so much and come so far. You know, we were like, let's go back to our little, you know, pond that we swim in.
- [102:10]
Rich Roll
It's pretty rare that a director could step into that and maintain a singular vision. Like, you know, Ryan Coogler can do it. You know, Christopher Nolan did it. But, you know, there's a lot of people who kind of got chewed up in that whole thing, but, like, the money is giant. It's like, I read something your brother had said. I think it was in a Variety article. It was like, Jay could get offered, you know, $500,000 to be an actor in X, but if this other project that's gonna pay him $150 is just 10% better, he'll do. And then, like, you know, like, how do you prevent yourself from making those compromises especially? It's like, you know, it's expensive to live. You've got kids and all. Even, like, the greatest artists, they'll go out and do the one so that they can, like, put their kids through college or buy their beach house or whatever.
- [103:04]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, honestly, keeping my expenses low, I don't buy stuff. I just don't buy stuff. I just want to make stuff. I think having an aesthetic mentality, which I had to have for my first 10 years of my career, I came up in Austin, Texas, making $15,000 a year because that was what I needed to make to keep doing my thing. But it's also just my temperament. I want to be a part of beautiful, transcendent art. And I have learned that what you do begets what you get. If you make. If you are a part of something incredible, people look to that, and they will hire you on something beautiful, you know, going forward. So I don't know. I mean, it's partially. It's just like, I'm an art nazi, too. I mean, I just, Like, I just. All I want to do is make art, and I want it to be as great as it can be. And, you know, it's. It is challenging at times. And, you know, we live on the east side and we keep our expenses low. And, I mean, that. That's. That's been an interesting part of it, too, because people think. Think that I have way more money than I have because they look at, like, the IMDb situation. I'm like, no, my wealth is in the quality of the stuff that I get to make. You know, And I do make a good living, and I feel good about it.
- [104:25]
Michael Strassner
At least five figures.
- [104:27]
Jay Duplass
I mean, but. But for real, like, you know, what happens in Hollywood is you make a lot of money, and people start fishing around if they could maybe sue you. That happens sometimes, too. Like, you know, I can't. I can't mention things that have happened, but people have sniffed around and figured out how much money we actually have, and they're like, oh, what's that?
- [104:45]
Rich Roll
Your litigation avoidance?
- [104:47]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, this is why little PSA stay away. There's nothing to get. You know, I mean, but it is. It is a part of the philosophy of just, like, I'm just here to make great art. And that's what allowed me to survive, too, is just, like, doing the volume and just making great stuff.
- [105:07]
Rich Roll
How do you balance having a singular artistic vision with the fact that it is a collaborative medium? Yeah. And also a medium in which it's important to, you know, take feedback from the right people. I mean, this is like, in anything. Like, you run your decisions by other people before you make them, especially when.
- [105:30]
Michael Strassner
You'Re early sprite, get engaged. And I was like, okay, I can do it.
- [105:33]
Jay Duplass
I can.
- [105:33]
Rich Roll
Early. And often that, like, maybe your idea isn't the best idea. You know, Jay doesn't suffer from that problem, but there is a balance between, like, this is my vision and this is what I'm doing and the fact that there's a lot of other people involved. And sometimes feedback makes the project better. And in this case, you know, the story was a collaborative work between the two of you.
- [106:00]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [106:00]
Michael Strassner
I mean, he was. You're the most collaborative person I think I've ever worked with. Like, truly, this man has no ego. And it's like, the craziest thing is, like. Or just an ego that I don't see. You know, like, there were no bad ideas. Like, he was like, yeah, let's throw that in. And, like. And after several drafts of writing, some of that stuff left, you know, and then. But, like, he really does make it. Make it ours. Coming together first, and then it's the cast and crew that, you know, before every single day. Day we get. This is what. I'd never done this. But Jay sets up, like, a lineup where everyone's like. He just is like, anybody want to say anything to start it off?
- [106:39]
Jay Duplass
Do a prayer circle.
- [106:40]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. You know, just to get the day going.
- [106:42]
Jay Duplass
And it's like, well, it's also because, you know that I do that because making a movie feels like war, you know, and you're trying to like put laughs and heartbreak into. Into a war zone. It can't survive, you know, So I try to create, you know, just socially a world where everybody is welcome and everybody, you know, if someone, somebody comes to work and their dog died that day, let's hear it. Because that needs to. It's part of a culture that I really learned with the Transparent, the television show that I was on. But yeah, I mean, wait, what were we talking about?
- [107:18]
Michael Strassner
Just collaborating.
- [107:19]
Jay Duplass
Oh, collaborating.
- [107:20]
Rich Roll
And like having a vision.
- [107:22]
Jay Duplass
Having a vision. I mean, look, I think this is how I really feel about it is the best movies are made by dictators who are very benign and who include everybody else in the process. And we talked about it earlier, I do believe in serving my audience. And in particular with this story, I believe in serving Michael's story. So the way that I think about it, and maybe this is like tip number two for up and coming filmmakers, is when you start a movie, that movie is 100% yours. Or in this case, it's Michael's and mine. It's his story that I'm telling and we're telling together, and it is a whole 100% ours. And then every step of the way, it becomes a little bit less. You know, we hire a dp, we, we, we hire a producer and their feedback comes in and we include that and it belongs to them now. And then over time, we have a test screening. You have a test screening down here. And now it's, you know, smart people are coming in telling us what's working, what's not working. And at the very end, the movie no longer belongs to us. And if you have done your job right as a Director, it belongs 100% to the audience. So I think the process of making the film is learning how to land this plane in the hearts and minds of audience members because we've already done our thing. You know what I mean? It's just like we've already hugged and cried and laughed and high fived and almost got shot in Baltimore, you know what I mean? And then by the end, if it doesn't belong 100% to a stranger in a dark room that you will never have a conversation with, you're not really doing your job. And I think I had the beginning of my career. I was co directing with my brother, so we didn't have that auteurship. It was already we were in receiving you know, and that's what I, you know, you see something, you know how you feel about it, but you got to talk to somebody else about it too. And that really helped train me. And so when I get on set, it's less about. This is how I wanted it. I want it to be exactly that way. You're not doing what I want. You know, it's more about sitting back as an audience member. And, you know, sometimes it's really comfortable. You have a comfy video village and there's a tent around you. But sometimes you're just standing on a street in Baltimore and there's questionable activity going on in the street and nearby you, and you have a monitor this big, and you have to really get in your mind and be like, I'm in a movie theater in Pasadena in two years. How is this affecting me? And, you know, that's what I let lead me is like, I guess, like being possessed by the audience. That will come. That's the communication. That's what we all forget is this is a communication between Michael and me and strangers in a room that are two or three years away. And that is a weird, long winded thing to do. But the more that you just keep that in mind and you're the first.
- [110:25]
Michael Strassner
Audience watching on that.
- [110:27]
Jay Duplass
First audience. Yeah.
- [110:28]
Michael Strassner
And if you're not entered, like, tained.
- [110:29]
Jay Duplass
If I'm not entertained, we're going, we got to change it. Yeah.
- [110:32]
Michael Strassner
You know.
- [110:33]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [110:33]
Rich Roll
There's something about that that's curious though, because this open, this sort of openness that you have to have this kind of expansive, you know, relationship with the thing and being able to, you know, kind of imagine what it's going to look like down the road. Um, how does that match up with, like, I think maybe you're kind of an. Prone to obsessiveness. Like, you have obsessions, Right. Like, nobody is doing all these different things unless they, like, get obsessed with something and just like, you know, so it's way too. But those are two different energies, Right? They are like the obsessiveness could make you that dictatorial kind of director.
- [111:11]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, it's creator destroyer. Yin yang is what it is. And so, so similar to. It belongs to us and now it belongs to the audience. Early is creator, end is destroyer. So in the early days, it's yes and it's yes. And Michael, tell me about this. How did that feel? Why did the belt break Wait. Holiday, wait. There's a mix along the way. Constantly creating, constantly destroying. And in the destruction is. There has to be A ton of love. A ton of love in the destruction and. But, yeah, I mean, I'm sure there were plenty of times where I was like, we're gonna redo this whole thing on our first day of shooting. I was like, we're lopping off the first 10 pages of the script. How did that feel when I did that?
- [112:06]
Michael Strassner
I had to take a nap.
- [112:08]
Jay Duplass
Yeah. Very overwhelming, right?
- [112:10]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. I was like, let me. And then now looking back on it like that, like that scene, we were trying to do something that didn't need to happen and that we can. And that also we can see later on. We can. You know. But, yeah, I was like, you know, how are we going to do it? Like, that's. We're going to start with that. Okay. You know, it's traumatic.
- [112:30]
Jay Duplass
The whole process is traumatic. I mean, you know, Mark and I, because we failed so much and because we put movies up that didn't, you know, I got trained early on. It was just like, by any means necessary. This isn't about me. This isn't. Here's the thing, the whole mechanism of filmmaking, everyone wants you to say, we got it and we can move on. Right? That's what everybody wants. That's what the producers want. That's what the assistant director who runs the set wants. They just want you to say that. And if you don't say that, everyone is in pain. Because as fun as making a movie is, it's probably three in the morning. People are understood, slept. You know, people are having a tough.
- [113:13]
Michael Strassner
Time who have never done this before. And they're like, I thought it was gonna be two hours. What the hell is this?
- [113:17]
Jay Duplass
Why am I here? You're having personal conversations with extras to convince them to stay. And what Mark and I realized early on is, like, you do not leave until you get it. And if you have to leave when you didn't get it, you're coming back. You're coming back. So there is a lot of critical.
- [113:35]
Rich Roll
Constant pressure to compromise.
- [113:36]
Jay Duplass
Constant pressure. That's what people are always like, how do you not compromise? And I'm like, every.
- [113:42]
Rich Roll
You are compromising. Every decision is a compromise.
- [113:44]
Jay Duplass
Every decision is a compromise that is 100% correct. And, you know, but ultimately, you're just. It's all about nudges and fighting for the best you can get in that moment. You know, sometimes an actor shows up on set and they're supposed to be super peppy and hosting a party, and they are grumpy as hell. They haven't slept.
- [114:06]
Michael Strassner
I thought you're not Gonna tell this.
- [114:07]
Jay Duplass
Story that's not about you. And sometimes you have to re rig a scene to work with what somebody has to offer. And you also have to make sure that it works in the context of the story that you're telling. So it is a tireless job. It is, you know, it's a 16 hour a day job for sure. And that's if you're lucky, you know.
- [114:28]
Rich Roll
So when you see a clip of an actor losing his shit on the set, it's like important to, you know, remember that and contextualize that 100%. Yeah, like I'm thinking of. And there's that great clip of David Lynch. Have you seen that? Where he's just. Somebody's like, we got to move on time.
- [114:46]
Michael Strassner
Who gives a about time?
- [114:47]
Jay Duplass
Who gives a shit about time?
- [114:48]
Rich Roll
I don't care how long a scene is, it's going to be as long as it's supposed to be. And he's like screaming true.
- [114:54]
Michael Strassner
And I think like, you know, I don't think, you know, actors sometimes, like we're using all of our emotions, you know, like, so we might not be in the best mood, you know, because we have to do this one thing, you know, that's kind of tough taking that mood from you.
- [115:08]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is I love actors and whatever they need to do besides abusing other people that gets them to where they need to be, I support it and I love them and I help them along. I mean, 100%, when I hear an actor losing their mind on set, I've experienced it myself as an actor where you're, your body. If you get yourself in a position where somebody's trying to kill you on set, which happens all the time, your body doesn't know the difference. Your body feels like somebody's trying to kill you. And just because somebody said cut and you have two minutes to walk over to craft services and get yourself a bagel doesn't mean that you've shed the feeling that somebody's trying to kill you right over there. And they're right over there. That that's it's real. It's very, very real. And in general, I mean, I feel like part of what this movie is about and part of what making art is about and part of what you're trying to create in the world is like understanding and compassion for whoever is going through whatever they're going through. Because everybody's out here doing their best, you know, and in particular with filmmaking, it's unbelievably challenging. It's unbelievable.
- [116:26]
Rich Roll
Shocking that anything gets made at all, even when something's good.
- [116:30]
Jay Duplass
Yeah. When people come onto a set, Michael's family, when they came out of the set, they were like, I can't believe you guys are out here doing this. All the y' all been out here for three weeks in the middle of the night, like trouncing around Baltimore at 4 in the morning. Like, how are you standing? And we're like. Cuz we're idiots and we love what we're doing. But it is, it is astounding.
- [116:49]
Michael Strassner
My dad came on set at, I think his call time was like 11:30. He's like, you need me there that late? Like, what, like, what are you gonna be doing in Baltimore city that late at night? And I was like, we're shooting a movie, dad. And then he comes and he did a great job, you know?
- [117:01]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [117:02]
Michael Strassner
And yeah, I mean, literally every single one of my family members are like, in this movie.
- [117:08]
Rich Roll
So funny.
- [117:08]
Michael Strassner
Yeah.
- [117:10]
Rich Roll
There's a difference between improv. Yes. Anding people and like, you know, pathos and dramatic acting. Like, did you study that also like this. I mean, you've done a bunch of TV and stuff. Like, but this is like, this is.
- [117:25]
Michael Strassner
The first time I've done something that was like, full on. Like, like getting to do so many different things. Like, I love doing comedy. It's so much fun. But like, you know, my favorite actor is like Philip Seymour Hoffman and he could be a killer in Along Came Polly and make you laugh so hard throughout it and be one of the best actors of all time. Like, and so getting an opportunity to like, have scenes in this movie that are, you know, emotional and dramatic, like, that's what I love doing. Like, I, you know, I went to University of Maryland and studied theater there, which is me. And Larry David came out of there.
- [118:07]
Rich Roll
That's pretty good.
- [118:08]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah. And, and Kermit the Frog. Jim Henson.
- [118:11]
Jay Duplass
All right.
- [118:11]
Michael Strassner
But yeah, like, I, I, I think, and also, like, with sobriety, like, that shifted a little bit where, like, oh, I don't always have to be the funniest guy in the room. I can just be like, my, I can show up and be the best listener and be in like, you know, the best actor I can be and serve the scene, you know, same way.
- [118:34]
Jay Duplass
I didn't know whether he could be dramatic or not.
- [118:36]
Rich Roll
Yeah, you had to be wondering.
- [118:38]
Jay Duplass
I had a total leap of faith. It was a total leap of, of faith. I just got to know Michael and I was like, he has it. I mean, you know, we'd get together and tell stories and cry, and he was emotionally available. And, yeah, your sobriety was a huge part of it. We never would have made this movie if you weren't sober. It would have been a different story. But also, like, I wouldn't have hired an unknown unsober person to, you know, who was having trouble to put at the front of my movie. But similarly with Liz Larson, lead actress, you know, that was on blind faith. You know, I. I met with her, hadn't worked with her. She.
- [119:15]
Rich Roll
I'd never seen her in anything before.
- [119:16]
Jay Duplass
She's a musical theater person. She was starring in Transparent, the musical, and she was stunning and outrageous, and I was like, I don't know. I've never seen you before. I'm going to work with you. And she was like, ah, that sounds funny. And then I called her and we met and she told me her story, which is a big part of the film. And. And I called Michael after. I said, she's it. We're doing it. And we didn't do any chemistry read or anything. I just like, you know, you're just taking the temperature of how people are and what they are like. And I mean, it's probably. You probably have a similar feeling when someone's coming on your podcast, you know, when it's going to be wonderful. And I had that feeling about both of them.
- [119:58]
Michael Strassner
And getting to work with Liz is like, it made dramatic acting so, like, dramatic acting, but, like, that easy because, like, you just connect with her and it's like you're kind of. You're just lost in the moment. Like, you're just there. And same with Olivia. Truly, like, we got so lucky with.
- [120:20]
Rich Roll
Olivia plays your fiance.
- [120:22]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, yeah. Lucardi. Yeah.
- [120:24]
Michael Strassner
And then my.
- [120:25]
Rich Roll
Some good moments with her. It's pretty funny when she unleashes on you.
- [120:28]
Jay Duplass
Oh, my God, she's a killer, man.
- [120:29]
Rich Roll
She goes full in.
- [120:30]
Michael Strassner
And then my. My actual fiance is my love interest, daughter, so.
- [120:37]
Rich Roll
Oh, wow.
- [120:38]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. So.
- [120:38]
Rich Roll
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [120:39]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. And that was like, that was such a fun scene doing that with Brian Mendez and mcat and Jess and my niece Zoe. So Zoe's the little girl in it. And, like, if we don't have everybody being solid actors in that, that's like, you know, it would have been a disaster. And that scene's one of my favorites. Like, you know, and it's all because of. I mean, Brian got hired the day before he came down, and he just did such an amazing job. Like, he's Conway, you know, and when and we keep that wide shot him with the camo pants because like, that's Baltimore.
- [121:13]
Jay Duplass
Baltimore camo is a man wearing camo pants and a camo shirt in raven's camo colors.
- [121:19]
Rich Roll
I mean, that's. That's an all time costume that guy's got on. Yeah. Jay, I mean, you've had your own journey with acting. I mean, for many years, you were, you were the guy behind the camera.
- [121:29]
Jay Duplass
Yeah.
- [121:30]
Rich Roll
And then I would, you know, see you here and there. I mean, I watched Transparent, some of it, but I didn't watch like all of it. But where. And I told you as much like you really left off the screen in industry, like, that character was unreal, dude.
- [121:44]
Jay Duplass
Thank you.
- [121:44]
Rich Roll
I mean, I've seen a lot of, you know, hedge fund types or whatever in television shows and I love that show industry. But you did something like all your own with that character that made it pretty unique and indelible.
- [121:58]
Jay Duplass
Thank you. Yeah, that. Yeah. I started acting when I was 40 years old. It happened because my friends who were directors, if someone dropped out, they would often hire me. They were like, look, we need a guy to come. You know, Jay's comfortable on set. Set, as I was saying, is a traumatic place to be. Very few people who can really be fully comfortable on set. And I'm not totally comfortable, but I've just been on so many that, you know, you can really just relax into it. And, you know, I would come and do a day player role and I wouldn't try and upsell my role. You know, a lot of day players will come on and be like, what if I said this monologue in addition to saying, what would you like to eat, sir?
- [122:38]
Michael Strassner
You know, they're definitely going to bring me back.
- [122:40]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, yeah, I think they're bringing me back. So I just started on accident and eventually it just leveled up and leveled up. And yeah, during COVID I got to go to whales and shoot industry, which is, you know, this BBC HBO show. And I. They offered me the role and I. It was very unusual role for me to play, like a killer, you know, hedge fund guy. But, but speaking of Transparent, Transparent was Amazon's first show and we thought we were making a web show on the place where you buy your toilet paper at the time. And six months later I was at the Golden Globes sitting next to Jeff Bezos, who ran Amazon, who runs Amazon. And I got to know him and I sort of modeled the character on him a little bit. And it was interesting because. Cause I was able to bring a lot to it for, you know, these Brits, you know, they. People who come with a lot of money, you know, don't have to be nice in England as much as in the United States because, you know, money is real old in England. And, you know. But yeah, I was able to sort of bring this. This sort of scrappy, killer vibe to that character. And it was a. It was kind of a big break in my career. It definitely like showed people because, you know, probably prior to that I was people casting me for me.
- [124:05]
Rich Roll
I was be in some version of a movie that you would make. And it's very familiar. But that, but the industry role was like an extreme departure from that.
- [124:14]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, I had to. I mean, it was the toughest role I'd ever taken. I mean, that language, it's almost like learning another language when you're speaking hedge fund talk. Because the creators had come from that world. It was very inside baseball. And so you had to know the dialogue so well that you could actually sort of like, intimate the emotional value of what was happening. Because, you know, it's. It's. Even as a viewer, it's hard to keep track of exactly what's happening. Like, it's only because the actors on that show are so good that you can understand it. So that was a. That was a pretty wild show and definitely broke my career open as an actor.
- [124:48]
Rich Roll
What did you learn from hanging out with Jeff Bezos? Like, what can you share about just.
- [124:54]
Michael Strassner
A down to earth.
- [124:57]
Rich Roll
What that hang was like?
- [124:59]
Jay Duplass
That hang was like. It was an odd experience because everybody. So early Days of Transparent, you're talking about 12 people at a table at the Golden Globes, at the Emmys, at the Peabody's, none of whom had ever been there before. So we're all just showing up, including Jeff Bezos, you know, showing up, trying to figure out what this is and what this means. You know, I do. I mean, very friendly guy, very excited about what we were doing. You know, I mean, it was a huge windfall for. For them to have like their first show do incredibly well. I. The main thing that I remember is he would show up and disappear through odd doors. And we were told that there were helicopters involved. So even at these events, like, you know, Brad Pitt's at the Golden Globes, guys, and Bezos is going in and out of the special treatment.
- [126:09]
Rich Roll
I mean, you're a nation at that point.
- [126:12]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, there's a lot of bodyguards, there's a lot of security. There's. I mean, it is. The operation is the only thing that I can liken it to is one of my good friends is grandson of Jimmy Carter. And when he got married, Jimmy Carter came to the wedding. And, like, the wedding was a little bit about my friend John's wedding and mostly about how to get Jimmy Carter in, in and out of a wedding. And, you know, it's a really wild operation to see. The Golden Globes is a wild operation. You know, and obviously, like a target, you know, they are checking under cars with mirrors and wands that can detect things. So just. That operation is huge. And then getting Jeff Bezos into it is totally insane. And then he's just sitting, you know, know, eating cold food like we are and snacking and just, like, wondering what's next. So it was a totally surreal.
- [127:16]
Michael Strassner
And then his earpiece is like, your submarine's ready. Yeah.
- [127:19]
Jay Duplass
Just disappears through the floor.
- [127:22]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah, but.
- [127:23]
Rich Roll
But no invite to the wedding.
- [127:26]
Jay Duplass
No, no, no. No invite to the wedding.
- [127:28]
Rich Roll
Michael, you get invited. I didn't go.
- [127:31]
Michael Strassner
I think I was on the tier two. Yeah, yeah, okay.
- [127:34]
Rich Roll
Yeah, yeah.
- [127:35]
Jay Duplass
Which was, I believe, apps. Serving apps.
- [127:37]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, exactly.
- [127:38]
Rich Roll
Sure.
- [127:39]
Michael Strassner
If Carrot Top couldn't go, I'd be there.
- [127:41]
Jay Duplass
Okay, sounds good.
- [127:42]
Rich Roll
We were talking a little bit ago about creativity. Getting sober and realizing that not only can you still tap into your creativity, it becomes this, like, you know, kind of rebirth of it. But how do each of you think about creativity now? Like, when you sit down to write, like, you're collaborating on this script, but, you know, writing is still a solitary act, and you kind of have to inhabit a certain state. Are you, you know, a Steven Pressfield court the muse, get your ass in the chair kind of person? Is it a situation where you're dancing around and acting it out? Like, how does it work for you?
- [128:25]
Jay Duplass
I think Steven Pressfield's book is out, actually the one book on screenwriting that's actually of value. And on creativity, it is just about presence. It's interesting because when you were talking about what it meant to be sober and just becoming present and relying on other people for your sobriety, that is kind of how I think about creativity now is like, it might sound woo, woo, but it is really about. About just trying to be a clear channel for what does God want of me? Or the God or whatever your higher power is, but, like, you know, being of service in terms of, like, you know, what does the world need now? What am I excited about, you know, what is coming through me? Who else can I serve, you know, who can be my co conspirator, Who's a person I want to spend Years with making a movie. Who do I want to hang out with? Who do I love? Who's going to love me when times get hard? It's weirdly, I think, like, it's like kind of creating the thing that we're all missing now, which is the village, which we have moved away from. And we all live in our pods with our computers and if we're lucky, our spouse and our kids, you know, but. But like. And so I think it is. It's all that feeling of, like, you know, trying to create something that matters and that can be given to other people. And the. The older I get, the more that I'm just trying to purify that channel and make it as clean as possible because it's just not about me. And the more that it's about me, the muddier and grosser it feels. Of course, there are. Are things inside of me like, I needed this movie. I needed this movie as much as Michael needed this movie. I was fallow as an artist. I was scared to direct a movie without my brother. I was terrified that I was gonna make a movie and it was gonna suck. And I was gonna be like, oh, he was the special sauce. I didn't wanna be. I didn't wanna be.
- [130:38]
Rich Roll
So that's the dark secret, like, the insecurity. Like, oh, you know, they'll finally see that it was just all Mark.
- [130:45]
Jay Duplass
It was all Mark. And Mark is like, I'm. You know, like Mark said, I'm. I'm the guy who'll do the $150 movie. And I'm more inward. And Mark's very outward, much more visible and present. And he's a producer by nature. And, you know, he really likes. He. He, like, he wants to go to south by Southwest and give a talk about all the stuff we talk about. I'm just like. I'm just having enough trouble, you know, pushing this movie through the eye of a needle, you know, So I. We've always been that way, you know, where I'm more inward and he's more outward. And that's been an interesting part of us doing things separately is. Is us having to become whole people again. Because you sort of compartmentalize and you. You know, he got really good at being outward and I got really good at being inward.
- [131:34]
Rich Roll
So there's been a lot of ink spilled around this, you know, this relationship evolving.
- [131:45]
Jay Duplass
Yeah. Yes.
- [131:46]
Rich Roll
Is there anything you want to say about that?
- [131:49]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say that, like, Mark and I started as two immigrant kids to Hollywood you know, who were, like, linked arm in arm, like we talked about, and felt like we needed to do everything in lockstep in order to. To make a splash enough to where we wouldn't have to, like, go back to Louisiana, go back to New Orleans. Which is the story, as we know of Hollywood, is like, people move and then they move back. They get sent home, you know, and, you know, as we progressed, you know, I think our first big hiccup is Mark became a famous actor, and all I wanted to do was to be, you know, The Coen Brothers 2.0 with him. And. And that process was very difficult because to get a movie made, you have to obey that movie. That movie is so much bigger than you. And Mark was very unavailable for a long time, and it took me a long time to figure out how to navigate that. I created a TV show called Togetherness, and he was able to star in it, and we were able to work on that together. And over time, it took us a long time to realize that at my heart of hearts, I just wanted to be a filmmaker, writer, director, and Mark didn't really want that. You know, he wanted to be an actor and a producer. But, you know, we're two guys who felt lucky to be here. We didn't want to rock the boat. You know, it was a long, long. It was like a very loving, conscious uncoupling, but it took a really long time. It was like a tough, tough process. You know, I felt like he was leaving me early on, and he felt like I was leaving him later on. And it was kind of like a, you know, getting like a super friendly divorce where we were trying to take care of each other as much as possible, possible. And we're finally at a place now where we run this company together and we still support other people and we support each other in the ways that we can, but it was. It was a long time coming. And, you know, it. It was tough on me. I mean, it definitely the reason why I didn't make a movie for 14 years. And, you know, it took me it. That was what was, you know, super scary about, you know, making a new movie and. And, you know, but, you know, I just tried to keep it small and trust my heart. And luckily, this thing came out to be a dream come true.
- [134:24]
Rich Roll
So it's so much more than just. This is my first time directing, so much more.
- [134:29]
Jay Duplass
It's all my worst fears because if.
- [134:31]
Rich Roll
You could just, you know, get some momentum with this, then it alleviates whatever it does, weird tension and energy. You know, it alleviate tension relationship with your brother.
- [134:43]
Jay Duplass
Absolutely.
- [134:44]
Rich Roll
And that's if you're both fully expressed in doing what you're doing, then you can come together.
- [134:48]
Jay Duplass
Then we can come together and actually be brothers and make art when it makes sense for us to make art together. But no, it was absolutely terrifying. And you know, just. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, the fear is like, yeah, I'm Mark is the special sauce. I can't make anything without him. He doesn't want to make movies with me, so I don't make movies anymore. That's honestly was in the back of my head the whole time, you know.
- [135:16]
Rich Roll
Well, this was the growth and evolution that you needed. Like, you needed to do this as an artist for yourself.
- [135:24]
Jay Duplass
I did. I deeply, deeply needed it. And I think similar to how you guys have talked about with aa, like, you know, I had probably seven scripts. They were all more expensive. I hadn't made a movie in 14 years. So people in Hollywood are like, yeah, you're not a filmmaker anymore. You gotta make a movie recently to show them that you're a filmmaker and you're still good. Those movies were more expensive. There were a lot more personal stories about me, which I can tell those stories now. But like, I tried to move a lot of those stories forward. And it was a really tough time with the pandemic and with the strikes and, you know, the timing just didn't work and I just kept retreating, kept retreating, kept retreating. And it felt like it felt negative at first. And then I realized I was coming back to my roots. And you know, how I sort of invented this way of making films which is like using real people and telling their stories and honoring them and, you know, doing it handmade in a small city somewhere or a medium sized city somewhere where no one will bother us. Yeah, where no one will bother us. Exactly. But it was ultimately, I think, just service Michael and his story and knowing that it wasn't about me and then I could really focus on him. That to me, was my personal linchpin because I don't have that thing in me that's just like, oh, my story needs to get out there. This needs to be told. I'd much rather serve somebody else. And once we got into that pipeline, I was like, it just flowed like that.
- [136:58]
Rich Roll
One of the reasons why I think it's being really well received and we should say, like, we're recording this before it's out in the world. Like, we're talking about film festival audiences. So it's like these people want to like the movie, you know. But all the reviews are like incredibly good right now.
- [137:12]
Jay Duplass
Yes.
- [137:13]
Rich Roll
I think it speaks to this yearning that we have for something that feels real and authentic, you know, and the movies are just. They're so big now. They're so, you know, special effected out. And the stories are so, you know, unrelatable. Everything is super sized. So much that. And every character we haven't been served, like we haven't been nourished with. Just like the human story that we can relate to that reminds us that we're human. When we see people that look real and feel real, because they are real people. And they're just having a human problem that they're trying to figure out.
- [137:55]
Jay Duplass
And there was so much value in like casting Michael. And it's. He's the guy.
- [138:02]
Michael Strassner
This.
- [138:02]
Jay Duplass
This essentially happened in spirit. And a lot of these events are true. That was a huge value to me is because I. I was after. Exactly. That is like feeling something that is undeniably real and has value. And, you know, I think there are some good superhero movies out there. But I said this once at a SAG Screen Actors Guild event and I thought it was going to be a lot more controversial than it was. But I don't think people's thinking was. I'm not trying to say I was so advanced, but I just think people were not quite thinking this way. But I think the younger generation is thinking this way. And my idea around it is that our cultural mythology is broken. People talk about this across various medium, but I think it's actually most visible in filmmaking. Because ultimately our cultural mythology in America right now is represented in a superhero movie. And that myth is there's bad people and there's good people. We're the good people. And the bad people are very, very scary. But what we need to do is lift weights and buy more guns and kill all those bad people. And when we do that, everything will be good. And nothing could be more broken. Nothing could be more true in terms of our foreign policy. Nothing, nothing could be more dangerous for this world and where we're going. And I think, I'm not trying to save the world with these tiny little movies. But Joseph Campbell said stories are equipment for living. And it took me a long, long time to understand what that really meant. You said it earlier. It's like a story is a way to change people's minds and change people's culture. I saw it with transparent, no tolerance for trans people. And suddenly people were watching this show and there was a trans person in Their living room, and they were laughing and enjoying them and watching them operate in the world. And so to be able to contribute to our cultural mythology and to tell stories about people who are trying to recover and two steps forward, one step backwards, and making us laugh and falling in love and getting their hearts broken and. And frankly, using Michael's journey and the courage that he displayed to recover and to stay sober, that is additive to our culture, and it's additive to your Saturday night when you're like, boy, that was a tough week. Because I think the superhero movies feel really good in the moment, and then you go home, and they just feel so far away. They're not really nourishing the soul in a way that starts stories can.
- [140:54]
Michael Strassner
I think you're not leaving talking about it. You're just like, oh, yeah, that was good, right? You know. Yeah, yeah. And I think the best thing about our movie is that, like, there's conversation after, you know, like, when we did test screenings, like, you know, the. Like, Jay would ask a question, and the audience was, like, split, and he's like, we have a movie now. Because now that audience can go and talk about, well, I saw it as this. Did you see it as that? You know, and I don't know. I just personally, like. I like seeing movies that have flawed characters that are trying to kind of do their best in their everyday life, but still mess up, you know, like, my guy is by no means. No one's perfect. And that's the whole thing that I think we need to. Because I think so much of the superhero movies, these people are perfect, you know, or, you know, or they have.
- [141:47]
Jay Duplass
Flaws in very, like, simple ways that just, you know, it just feels like a token flaw.
- [141:54]
Rich Roll
I mean, I think it's very astute. This actually came up on the podcast I was doing yesterday with this, like, Jungian psychotherapist, and he was talking about, you know, how modern culture has been, you know, drained of a shared mythology, and we've outsourced it to, you know, basically the superhero movies that we see. And these are the stories that. That create our kind of sense of meaning in the world, which is really fascinating, but obviously makes sense when we become more secular and that we don't have the kind of community gathering spots and the spiritual institutions and churches and things like that. What are we gathering around? Well, we're gathering around the cinema and these ideas that we're all kind of collectively absorbing simultaneously. But for the filmmaker who does want to speak to the human condition, given the business model of Hollywood, Right now, they have to do it within the context of a superhero story. And there are good versions of that and not so good ones. So when I think about that, I think about what Tony Gilroy is doing with Andor, which I think is just some of the most exceptional storytelling.
- [143:04]
Michael Strassner
Michael Clayton is like one of the best movies ever.
- [143:06]
Rich Roll
It's my favorite movie.
- [143:07]
Michael Strassner
Same watch.
- [143:08]
Rich Roll
I literally watch it every three months. Yes.
- [143:11]
Michael Strassner
Brilliant.
- [143:12]
Jay Duplass
It's like reading the Bible.
- [143:13]
Rich Roll
I mean, that guy actually.
- [143:14]
Michael Strassner
I actually saw a clip of Clooney the other day. He was talking about that last scene where he's driving in the car. And they're like, it's some of your best acting ever. Like, what? Like, how are you doing this? I saw that and. And he was like, well, to be honest with you, I. We didn't know what we were doing. This was like the last shot. And Tony was just like, yeah, just go in the car and just ask to go somewhere. And everybody on the street in New York is yelling, clooney. Clooney. George.
- [143:38]
Jay Duplass
While that sacred moment was happening.
- [143:40]
Rich Roll
He's just trying not to laugh the whole time. But it's this incredible. For people who haven't seen it, it's this, like, very long shot. He's in the back of a cab, and it's just driving. This is the end of the movie, which is like the quintessential like. And like, this is how movies in the 70s ended. You know, it's definitely like a shout out to that. It's very effective. But then you hear like, oh, this is. Well, now, like, when you make a movie, what you were saying, like, I'm on a street in Baltimore. It's like 2am and there's a drug deal going on around the corner and the cops are about to come and all that kind of stuff. The reality of that. But Kathleen Kennedy should put Tony Gilroy in charge of anything having to do with Star wars for years and years and years, as long as he's willing to do it. And he should make every decision regarding it. Yeah, love. Let's end this with a little insight or inspiration for the aspiring artists. I think there's one thing that both of you guys share, which is that both of you are people who, pretty early in life had a good sense of what you wanted to do. And I think that's unusual, that's rare. Not everybody feels that way, but I think everybody has some kind of creative inspiration they want to give, voiced some idea that they have in any number of ways. And society doesn't do A very good job of encouraging that. So how would you give words to that person who's, I mean, it sounds.
- [145:11]
Michael Strassner
Cliche, but, like, don't give up, you know, like, I had similar to you, like, so many jobs that, like, didn't go my way, you know, over and over and over again, testing for shows, doing stuff, stuff. And I'm like, like, why am I still doing it? Like, you know, that thought of, like, is it time to go back to Baltimore? Is it time to call it? You know, and it just takes one person in the field of Hollywood to be. Yes. And then I think Jay even said it to me once, like, Hollywood loves being the second. Yes. You know, and, you know, like, just do, do whatever you, like, fail, fail over and over and over again, get back up, fail, fail some more. But just, like, know that, like, no matter what, like, if this is what you really want to do for your life, anything in the creative field, just do it and not worry about what other people are telling you to do or not do, you know, And I, I, I would be remiss if I didn't. Since we mentioned Zachary Zach earlier, you know, my siblings and my cousin started a foundation in his name, ZTP foundation, that helps out people in Zach's age range in Maryland to, to basically, like, sponsor them to go to rehab. And so that's cool. Yeah. And I just wanted to make sure I mentioned that before because, because, you know, like, especially with sobriety too, like, you know, the term keep coming back, but also, like, just stay, because, like.
- [146:54]
Rich Roll
Don'T leave before the miracle.
- [146:55]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, yeah, don't leave before the miracle. Because right now I am living, like, the most miraculous Life, and it's 100% due to my sobriety. And I'm so grateful, like, every day, you know, that, like, that, that this little tiny movie about my life based on my life and made in my hometown with family and friends and with somebody that took a chance on me. It can happen. You know, it really can. And it's. And I'm living proof. And I just am so happy. I absolutely love my life today, and I was this close to missing it all.
- [147:40]
Jay Duplass
Well, I can't top that.
- [147:42]
Rich Roll
That's pretty good. That's pretty good.
- [147:44]
Jay Duplass
That's a good one. That's a pretty good one.
- [147:45]
Michael Strassner
You, I mean, you can definitely top it. You're like, oh, yeah.
- [147:49]
Jay Duplass
I mean, I guess the extra piece of advice I would give for upand cominging filmmakers and artists, everyone is a little bit of a riff on the perfect day, which I know you're a huge fan of and it's, you know, it's, I call it making good days. And I feel like my job is just to make the best day I can make on any given day. And I, I do a lot of thinking about what's going to happen tomorrow, the night before. If something doesn't feel right or if I feel too overloaded, I'll try and slide something to later in the week. And it's specifically with art making, it really comes down to are you going to be making art tomorrow? Are you going to do it? Because like I said, a lot of people like to talk about making art and they don't make art. It's also way easier to talk about making art. Making art involves fail, repeat, fail, repeat. So the other thing that's really tricky and there's no judgment on, but a lot of people want to have made art. They want to be at the Oscars, they want to be at the Golden Globes, whatever it may be. And I'll just put it out here this way is the real artists, most of them don't want to be at those events. They would rather be at home continuing to make their art. So in terms of merging those things, in terms of making a really good day and making your art, even at this point in my life, I find it hard to carve out two or three hours to make art on a Tuesday. I have to really be concerted about it because you know, people are banging on your door to do everything in this world to pay bills, to, you know, to move your damn car, to whatever it is that's going on. People are always banging on your door to do stuff and it's never to make an original, you know, earth shaking, earth shattering piece of art. You know, no one is doing that. That is up to you to do.
- [149:56]
Rich Roll
There's too many emails from your kids school that you have to read.
- [149:59]
Jay Duplass
How do people do it?
- [150:00]
Rich Roll
I don't know. That could be a full time job.
- [150:02]
Jay Duplass
Full time job is answering your kids school's emails and attending their events and doing fundraising for your kids school.
- [150:10]
Michael Strassner
But you're happy you had them and you love.
- [150:11]
Jay Duplass
Absolutely 100%. As one of my friends said, having children is 51% worth it. But yeah, I, I really do believe, believe that, you know, and, and really be honest with yourself. It's like how much art do you want to make in a day? You know, and really tuning in because the, the more that I go, it really is, it's less about making art and more just about Me being true to myself and just witnessing how much art is going to come out of that, because I'm not really interested anymore in forcing art because that creates collapse. You know, like, overworking creates collapse. And of course, we have to feed our families and we have to do all the things that we need to do. But, I mean, to me, ultimately, it comes down to tuning into who you are and listening, and that's what's going to tell you what you uniquely have to offer the world. Because like you said, we all have our heroes, and we want to be like them, but sometimes we're not like them ultimately, or what we uniquely have to offer is not what they have to offer. Tuning into that thing is not what's taught in film school. It's not taught in our culture. That's why your podcast is so incredible, is it helps me tune in to what I'm doing and why I'm here and what gives me life. So I think that's the best piece of advice I can give to anyone. Artist.
- [151:42]
Rich Roll
It's pretty good advice, don't you think?
- [151:43]
Michael Strassner
Yeah. I mean, he's the killer. He knows what he's doing.
- [151:46]
Rich Roll
Yeah, it's about. It's about, you know, integrity with self. Like, integrating who you are. Like, your art is an expression of your authentic voice. You're not out there to, like, get invited to a party or be validated for it. Like, the reward is the work, which is a reflection of the inner self.
- [152:10]
Michael Strassner
And I. And I've been to those. Been to those parties where, like, I wasn't, you know, sober, and we would be writing the biggest screenplay ever.
- [152:18]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [152:19]
Michael Strassner
You know, midway through the night, you know, doing all this, like, all that stuff. We never talked about that screenplay again. You know, it's like doing the work and actually.
- [152:28]
Rich Roll
Yeah. Because the. The people who are. Who are actually doing the thing are not at the parties because they're doing the thing.
- [152:33]
Jay Duplass
And.
- [152:34]
Rich Roll
And they're probably invited and they choose not to go because, like, they're more compelled by, you know, the pull, the yearn to, like, express themselves. And, you know, time's precious, and if you're doing that at a high level, there are people pulling on you all the time and tempting you with, you know, all kinds of delicious offers to go here, do this or that.
- [152:54]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [152:57]
Rich Roll
Speaking of which, like, the movie's not out yet, but is your phone ringing? Are you getting. Is this, like. Is there, like, you know, a little bit of, like, activity going on?
- [153:06]
Michael Strassner
There's a little way.
- [153:07]
Rich Roll
There wasn't before there's a little bit.
- [153:09]
Michael Strassner
Of stuff happening, but not, you know, nothing. Nothing crazy yet. The movie hasn't come out yet, but I'm sure I just want.
- [153:16]
Rich Roll
I want it to come out. I want it to be super successful. And all I want for you is to like go back to Baltimore and just walk down the street and have like. And you can be like Clooney in the back of the cab with like the. Yeah, that's straight like hometown hero, you know?
- [153:31]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, that would be.
- [153:32]
Jay Duplass
We are having a huge premiere in Baltimore. Oh, you are the classic theater there.
- [153:36]
Michael Strassner
Yes, the Senator Theater on September 10th, I believe. And yeah, it's doing anything here in LA.
- [153:44]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, we're going to have a few events here. We're going to show some show advance. We'll. Yeah.
- [153:50]
Michael Strassner
Get anything out of it, of course.
- [153:53]
Jay Duplass
If you want to see it again. Yeah, that'd be amazing. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have a few events here. We're gonna have premieres in New York. We're gonna. Michael and I are gonna do an old school road show where we go to like 10 or 12 cities. We're gonna do press, we're gonna introduce movies, we're gonna really personalize the experience.
- [154:08]
Rich Roll
Like, that's like a. That's like a Kevin Smith vibe.
- [154:11]
Jay Duplass
It is. Yeah.
- [154:12]
Michael Strassner
We're gonna go like Boston, Chicago, Austin, Houston, Baltimore, Nashville, Nashville, Seattle and New.
- [154:19]
Jay Duplass
York and they're gonna fly us around and we're going to like go and be there in person and you know, Michael's going to cry on stage after and say he's glad to be alive.
- [154:26]
Michael Strassner
Yeah, I'm super vulnerable. And we got to thank IFC for all that.
- [154:30]
Jay Duplass
Yeah, IFC and Sapan films.
- [154:31]
Michael Strassner
Yes. Really have been. Josh has been incredible.
- [154:34]
Rich Roll
Yeah. Well, you guys did an amazing job. It's a really beautiful movie.
- [154:38]
Jay Duplass
Thank you for having us.
- [154:39]
Michael Strassner
Thank you.
- [154:40]
Jay Duplass
Thank you for supporting us.
- [154:41]
Rich Roll
Yeah, thanks for spending a couple hours with me, man.
- [154:44]
Jay Duplass
This was the dream come true for me. My favorite show. Are you about talking.
- [154:48]
Rich Roll
Talking about I want to just host like a movies podcast, you know, like.
- [154:52]
Jay Duplass
You could do that. You could do that.
- [154:55]
Rich Roll
Anyway, appreciate you guys.
- [154:58]
Jay Duplass
Thank you.
- [154:58]
Rich Roll
Yeah, thanks so much for doing this and thank you. Thanks.
- [155:02]
Michael Strassner
Thank you.
- [155:05]
Rich Roll
That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page@richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive. My books, Finding Ultra Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way. If you'd like to support the podcast. The easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment. And sharing the show, show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful. This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com sponsors and finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter which you can can find on the footer of any page@richroll.com Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Cameolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis and Morgan McRae with assistance from our Creative Director Dan Drake, content management by Shana Savoy, copywriting by Ben Prior and of course our theme music was created all the way back in 2012 by Tyler Pyatt, Trapp Harper Pyatt and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace Plants Namaste.