Malala Yousafzai Is Finding Her Way

Summary

The Rich Roll Podcast: “Malala Yousafzai Is Finding Her Way”

Release Date: October 27, 2025
Host: Rich Roll
Guest: Malala Yousafzai

---

Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation, Rich Roll sits down with Malala Yousafzai, Nobel Peace Prize laureate, global advocate for girls’ education, and author of the new memoir Finding My Way. Together, they explore Malala’s journey from surviving a Taliban assassination attempt as a young teenager in Pakistan to navigating the complex realities of activism, identity, trauma, and healing as a young woman and student in the UK. The conversation balances powerful reflections on trauma, compassionate advocacy, struggles with imposter syndrome, and the joyful, awkward, and messy process of figuring out how to be fully human while living in the spotlight.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Aftermath of Surviving the Taliban (02:14–04:00, 07:28–11:00)

• Malala recounts her survival of the Taliban attack at age 15, noting the bizarre process of becoming a global symbol while still just a child.

• She describes the flashbacks and PTSD that emerged years after the shooting, and her initial skepticism of therapy.

• Quote:

  “I survived the Taliban attack when I was fifteen years old... the flashbacks of the attack came back many years later. That was really painful to process. I was introduced to therapy. That changed everything for me.” — Malala (02:14)

• The anniversary of her shooting remains a difficult day, but she emphasizes focusing on hope and the support she’s received, rather than hatred.

2. Becoming an International Symbol – and Wanting More (03:21–04:40, 12:00–17:00)

• Rich reflects on meeting “the Malala behind the headlines,” highlighting her desire to be seen as more than just a symbol or news story.

• Malala shares her struggle with being typecast as a “fearless activist” and the pressure of living up to global expectations.

• The new memoir aims to present a more complete and human side of her life, from lonely days at school to her college adventures.

• Quote:

  “When you meet her, you realize she’s this young... woman, still very much at the beginning of her life — trying to figure stuff out just like the rest of us.” — Rich (04:40)

3. Culture Shock & Loneliness in the UK (15:23–17:45)

• Malala discusses her experience as a quiet, lonely student in the UK, missing her life and friends in Pakistan.

• Security details and her fame made it hard to fit in. Even before arriving, her new school held an assembly to introduce her.

• Her parents, extremely protective, limited her social freedom.

• Quote:

  “Sometimes I wished that I could just be my old self — a bit mischievous and funny and chat with people all day long... I did not want to be a boring, quiet student.” — Malala (15:23)

4. The Sacrifices of Activism and Deferred Normalcy (18:52–21:00)

• As a teenager, Malala felt like she missed out on essential aspects of growing up due to her sudden fame and activism.

• She describes longing for normal relationships, friendships, and feeling the loss of an “ordinary” youth.

• Quote:

  “Maybe when you become an activist, these are the compromises or the sacrifices you have to make — that you cannot be a normal person anymore.” — Malala (18:52)

5. College as Escape and Experimentation (20:58–23:45)

• Attending Oxford represented a chance for self-exploration, autonomy, and escape from parental and global oversight.

• She describes blending in, finding new friends, and even negotiating with the college not to announce her presence to students — for a chance at anonymity.

• Quote:

  “Going to college was part of my ambition... but at the same time, I said maybe this is a way I can explore who I am.” — Malala (20:58)

6. Navigating Cultural Identity & Public Scrutiny (33:02–37:00)

• Malala details controversy over her dress — facing backlash from her own community for wearing jeans, and from others for keeping her headscarf.

• She reflects on the pressures women face around dress and the right to choose.

• Quote:

  “I told my parents... I want to be a college student just like everybody else. I’m not in college for some pilgrimage. I’m here as a normal student... It’s about choice. Women and girls should have the right to choose what they wear.” — Malala (35:51)

7. Evolving Activism: From Individual to Collective (45:26–49:00)

• Malala describes how her activism expanded from her own voice to a global movement, now supporting 400+ organizations in 6+ countries.

• She stresses that sustainable change comes from collective action, not lone heroes.

• Quote:

  “It begins with one person, but to make that change happen... we need collective efforts.” — Malala (45:26)

8. The Crisis in Afghanistan & Gender Apartheid (49:23–56:00)

• Malala passionately addresses the Taliban’s return in Afghanistan, describing the oppression of women as “gender apartheid” and calling for global legal safeguards and coordinated pressure, including from Muslim leaders.

• She advocates for putting gender apartheid into international law.

• Quote:

  “They treat women as second-class citizens, and it is a form of an apartheid.” — Malala (53:31)

9. Therapy, Trauma, & the Journey of Healing (72:17–80:14)

• Writing her book was a therapeutic process that helped her process trauma. She candidly discusses her struggle with panic attacks and PTSD, which intensified after her first and only experience with cannabis at university.

• Therapy helped her redefine courage, understanding that bravery means acting despite fear, not in its absence.

• Quote:

  “I redefine bravery now — it is when you still stand up, despite the anxiety, the panic attacks, the doubts, the trauma. I call it true courage now.” — Malala (79:20)

10. The Real Malala: Humor, Social Media, and Introspection (67:14–71:49)

• Malala addresses the misconception that she is “boring and serious,” sharing stories about funny moments with friends, her new husband, and her attempts to confront detractors (including creating a fake Instagram).

• She advocates mutual compassion and learning to “agree to disagree.”

• Quote:

  “I think it’s that I am a serious person because I talk about serious issues — which then somehow people assume means I am just boring and serious. But that’s not actually true.” — Malala (70:53)

11. Self-care, Fitness, and Finding New Passions (84:01–87:26)

• Fitness and self-care play a pivotal role in Malala’s mental health. She shares her journey learning to run, swim, and play golf — and the fun, sometimes competitive side that emerges in sports and games.

• Quote:

  “These are places where I could never see myself... I just want to play. I just want to try it. And I’m like a completely different person when I’m playing a sport — I become like so competitive, I become aggressive..." — Malala (84:31)

12. Expanding Impact: Entrepreneurship & Storytelling (86:19–91:02)

• Malala and her husband invest in women’s sports through Recess Capital to create career paths for girls, and she produces documentaries (e.g., for Apple TV) through her company Extracurricular, emphasizing the power of storytelling for social change.

• Quote:

  “For me, it is empowering education activists, investing directly in girls. The second thing is storytelling... creating and investing in these opportunities for women and girls so when they have a dream, they know that there is a pathway.” — Malala (91:07)

13. Activism in Practice: Advice for Others (108:26–111:00)

• Activism, Malala says, is broad: it starts with a question, deepens through conversation, and leverages whatever support is available.

• She urges people to identify their passion, talk with experienced activists, and never underestimate the power of even small actions.

• Quote:

  “Activism begins with a question... I think we can all be doing activism in private and public spaces.” — Malala (108:46)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pressure and trauma:

  “I was really proud of myself before that — look: survived a bullet, look where I am, I’m fighting for all girls, and suddenly seven years later I am shaking... I call it true courage now.” — Malala (77:29/79:20)

• On collective action:

  “I still stick to my words when I said one child and one teacher can change the world, but... it’s the power of collective activism that can really drive change.” — Malala (45:26)

• On the need for global pressure on the Taliban:

  “Women have to be in those rooms [peace talks]... If we cannot even fight for the women to be present in the room, how can we have hope that we will protect their rights inside Afghanistan?” — Malala (52:10)

• On self-care for activists:

  “I realized that when I started looking after myself more... I was actually being more productive. Fitness has become a whole new thing for me.” — Malala (82:07)

• On the universality of the coming-of-age process:

  “Every human being... goes through that process of trying to figure out who they are... I think that’s a journey — a very human journey — and I think we can all find a little piece of ourselves in this beautiful book that you’ve written.” — Rich (111:58)

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Malala’s account of the attack & early aftermath: 02:14–04:00
• The complexity of being a global symbol: 03:21–04:40
• Therapy & mental health journey: 09:00–11:00, 72:17–80:14
• UK school adjustment & college escape: 15:23–17:45, 20:58–23:45
• Identity and cultural controversy: 33:02–37:00
• Evolving activism and Malala Fund: 45:26–49:00
• Afghanistan, gender apartheid, and global action: 49:23–56:00
• Therapy’s transformation & redefining courage: 75:55–80:14
• Hopes for activism and practical advice: 108:26–111:00

---

Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, Malala is candid, open, and often self-deprecating — blending profound insight on trauma, activism, and healing with humor and heartfelt stories about trying to fit in, experimenting at college, and loving sports. Rich Roll’s tone is reverent and curious, intent on drawing out the unvarnished humanity of his guest.

---

Final Message & Call to Action

Malala reaffirms her faith in the possibility of collective change, stressing that progress requires both honesty and teamwork. She encourages listeners to take whatever action they can, to remain mentally healthy, and above all, to be truthful to themselves and to the causes they support.

Find out more or support the Malala Fund: malala.org

---

A powerful, funny, and utterly human episode reminding us all that behind extraordinary advocacy is a young woman still finding her own way—and that we all have a role to play in building a fairer, more compassionate world.

Transcript

[Rich Roll]

We'Re brought to you today by seed i have hosted so many microbiome experts on the show over the years and the more i learn about this very complex aspect of our physiology the more fascinating it becomes to me but there is one thing that is simple a happy gut is the foundation for a happy body and a happy life and to get there requires care requires intention it requires a daily gut health promoting ritual that for me begins with seeds ds two in one probiotic and prebiotic formulated with twenty four strains that are clinically studied and proven to survive the digestive journey it's been shown to increase good gut bacteria by four hundred percent but it goes beyond just the gut dso one supports your whole body it's formulated to reduce abdominal bloating and intermittent constipation in as little as is two weeks and i can attest to noticing personal improvements in my digestion in my energy levels and overall gut comfort so go to seed dot com richroll and use the code richroll twenty for twenty percent off your first month of dso one movement is so much more than just exercise or training or motion even movement is a language it's a way of connecting body mind and environment movement as a way of being a way of being that brings me close to myself closer to other people and to what matters most in life and for me what we wear in that pursuit plays a crucial role and that's what i appreciate about on they engineer apparel that supports and elevates the practice of movement itself from running shorts with built in support to technical tees that cool you down right where it matters this is apparel born from precision and tested by elite athletes but made for anyone committed to the path i've been with on since twenty twenty three and i'm still just so impressed by how they continue to elevate and innovate in the name of purpose not flash head to on dot com rich roll to explore gear that supports you every step of.

[Malala Yousafzai]

The way i survived the taliban attack when i was fifteen years old one bullet hit me on the left side of my forehead i was as a brave courageous activist who stood up to the taliban the flashbacks of the attack came back many years later that was really painful to process i was introduced to therapy that changed everything for me today i'm thinking about all the children in the world who are denied the right to an education who are living under wars whose schools are being bombed and i just wish that no other child is attacked no other child faces a bullet for simply wanting to be in school it's hard to process but all you can think about is the hope that humanity has i just think about the immense love the support that i have received from people and think less about a few who spread hatred.

[Rich Roll]

Hey everybody welcome to the podcast you know when i started this thing thirteen years ago the idea that a day would arrive when someone like malala this global icon this basically symbol of international courage you know would make a point of coming to my studio to sit down and talk was just unfathomable but stunningly this is what happened she did in fact pay the podcast a visit and i guess on some level there's a lesson in there about stick to itiveness about what happens when you just build something very gradually over time and it was all very disarming because malala isn't somebody who typically does this kind of thing and she didn't show up with some big entourage and she was happy to be here happy to talk as long as i wanted to happy to take pictures with my crew and a couple friends we invited to sit in on the experience and basically just hang out all of which really humanized her because if you're someone like that everybody has sort of already decided who you are in advance and in her case the idea is that you know she is this fearless activist and advocate for girls education the youngest person to ever win a nobel prize et cetera on and on and on but when you meet her you realize she's this young relatively newly married woman still very much at the beginning of her life trying to figure stuff out just like the rest of us and sort of very earnest about wanting people to see and understand her as much more than a news story or a headline or how the media has historically portrayed her which i think is a big reason why she wrote this new book that just came out called finding my way which i kind of jokingly refer to as malala goes to college because it is that but also more generally it's her trying to reintroduce herself as this young person in a strange land just trying to navigate ordinary everyday life in surprisingly relatable ways so anyway yeah it's kind of a moment for me for my team and for you to be able to help share her story in her own words a story i think we all think we know but as you will momentarily discover not really for the few unfamiliar malala yousafzai was a fifteen year old student and activist who spoke out publicly against the taliban's prohibition on girls education who survived an assassination attempt by the taliban and almost overnight became a global symbol of courage and for which she holds the distinction of being the youngest person ever awarded the nobel peace prize today she oversees the malala fund which sponsors girls education in many countries across the developing world but today we go way beyond the headlines malala's version of the malala story panic attacks and all which more than anything is about how to find and define yourself how to carve out your own identity and path irrespective of what others or in her case the world expects from you including you're never going to believe this what happened when malala did her first bong hit so there you go let's do it this is me and the very inspiring malala i'm very excited to meet you thank you for coming all the way out here to talk to me today i think it's an interesting moment because today the day that we're recording this is october eighth which is one day shy of the thirteenth anniversary of the shooting so is that occupying your mind does that happen this time of year every year i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Want it to be a normal day it's a difficult day to reflect on because i think about the gunman who attempted to shoot a fifteen year old girl for daring to go to school so usually i just want this day to go past as quickly as it can but today i'm thinking about all the children in the world who are denied the right to an education who are living under wars whose schools are being bombed and i just wish that no other child is attacked no other child faces a bullet for simply wanting to be in school it's hard to process but all you can think about is the hope that humanity has i just think about the immense love the support that i have received from people and think less about a few who spread hatred or a few who are.

[Rich Roll]

You know who attacked us you once famously said in an interview when you were asked about your relationship to the shooting that you don't think about it and you're just moving your life forward and this was big controversial thing you talk about this in the new book but the new book is also very much a mental health journey and you trying to process the trauma of that experience and i suspect on some level that requires you grappling with it and confronting it rather than just trying to compartmentalize it and move your life forward without looking in the rear view mirror.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I previously thought that my story was completed that i won over the people who tried to silence me i survived the taliban attack when i was fifteen years old i recovered through my surgeries quickly i was on this new journey to advocate for girls around the world and i remember at the hospital there was a therapist as well who was offered to me and my family and i said no because we just did not grew up in pakistan learning about what therapy was and it was just not a common topic so i was a bit skeptical rolling my eyes that you know how can a question like how are you feeling today help me through this pain yeah but when i think about my new book finding my way i think you know it's a continuation of the journey because the flashbacks of the attack came back many years later and i thought that i did not remember the attack but when i had this ptsd when i had this experience where i started having flashbacks again it just made me realize that maybe i had buried it somewhere down there but it was always there i want.

[Rich Roll]

To dive deeper into the mental health journey here but before we do that for the very few who might be watching this or listening to this who are less familiar with your story do you think that you could give a thumbnail version of what happened to you to catch everyone up to speed yeah.

[Malala Yousafzai]

So i come from the north of pakistan and we had a normal life but when i was eleven years old our valley was targeted by militant extremists called the taliban they imposed restrictions on women and girls from limiting them from work and also education i was a student at the time and girls education was banned by the taliban women were beaten up schools were bombed that's when i became an activist for my right to be in school i was following the footsteps of my father who was a girls school educator yes he had a school my father was a school teacher he started a girls and boys school so i was very lucky that i was getting access to an education but the taliban made it even worse because what little we were already achieving for women they just took all of that away from us and when the taliban were removed after a military operation there were still challenges to girls education so i continued speaking out the taliban it felt like had not gone that far away you know you could still feel like they were there far away in the mountains at age fifteen i was on my school bus when two gunmen stopped our school bus one came to the back of the school van and asked who is malala and then he fired bullets so one bullet hit me on the left side of my forehead and two bullets hit two friends who were sitting right next to me after that i have heard stories about this incident i hardly recall what happened and this was my answer that i don't remember but i have many memories in my mind because from the moment of the shooting till the time when i woke up it had been more than a week and i was in an induced coma i had gone through a few surgeries and i closed my eyes in pakistan and then i woke up in a different country in birmingham in the uk so this period of one week was this dark time that i just could not figure out if i were the same person or not how could my life take such a sharp turn and that i had to restart a new life and also the fact that my story was heard around the world i was still in a coma when i was receiving global recognition i had no idea if people even knew my name so i was defined as a brave courageous activist who stood up to the taliban yet i was still fifteen years old who wanted to know what was ahead of her in life and that's why i am reintroducing myself in this book because it has been a learning journey to find out who i am as a young woman so i'm sharing about my lonely school time to becoming a reckless college student to then becoming this young woman now who is at peace with herself there's.

[Rich Roll]

So many interesting themes in the book but just reflecting upon that experience that you had as a young person so many just unusual things had to conspire in order for you to just be alive there was an english there happened to be an english surgeon nearby who could treat you the trajectory of the bullet like you know should have gone into your brain but sort of slid off the side of a very thick part of your cranium that allowed you to survive and through the you know the toil of very qualified doctors you were able to survive and then you end up waking up in the united kingdom and being introduced to an entirely different life that you didn't necessarily ask for i mean you were this advocate and you were speaking out and there was a there was a you know a courage and a boldness to that but it's not like you asked for this life that suddenly was kind of imposed on you in many ways and what comes across in the book is this trade between the expectations placed on you as a young person a young girl in pakistan and the constraints of that trading that for the constraints of this activist kind of globally celebrated activist life that you find yourself in as a young person that never provides you with the opportunity to figure out who you are and who you want because suddenly your life is just full speed ahead in so many dizzying directions i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Think i just did not get enough time to reflect on myself and as soon as i was discharged from the hospital in birmingham i was doing my first interviews i was writing my book i was signing a documentary deal i was preparing for my speech at the un which is now known as a famous speech where i said one child one teacher one book and one pen can change the world and then i was a student i started my school in the uk i was admitted to an all girls school i felt that i was a latecomer a lot of the girls had already made friends so i could not fit into the circles the culture was different i could not understand the slangs and the jargons they were using so i was a very quiet and lonely student at school and i missed my time in pakistan because i knew that this was not me i knew that i had become a different person that was not feeling like herself anymore so i would call my best friend from pakistan from school and ask her to tell me everything about what was going on because i wanted to reconnect with that old life and sometimes i wished that i could just be my old self a bit mischievous and funny and chat with people all day long i just missed that part of me i did not want to be a boring quiet student yeah so the school days were difficult in the.

[Rich Roll]

Uk and on top of that knowing that every room you walk into everybody knows who you are and you have security detail and it's like a whole thing right so that precedes your entrance into any kind of social dynamic that complicates it even further yeah and sometimes.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I don't blame the people because even in my school before i joined they had a whole assembly where the principal introduced me and i think every student was just shy or every student was confused in how they should be treating me because they just thought she's somebody we have heard of we just don't know how to be normal with her and yes my time was limited to being at school and then the time i would get off i would be going to conferences events doing interviews for the cause of girls education i started a foundation malala fund to advocate for girls who are out of school and my parents also were restricting me a bit because they were just worried about my safety and i just i still don't understand why they were so worried i guess all parents get worried but they would not even let me go to a friend's like party after school because they were like you cannot go on your own so yeah i just wanted to have that experience with friends where i felt that nobody was watching me and i could be myself when.

[Rich Roll]

You look back at those early public speeches like the un speech et cetera what emotions come up for you do you have compassion for that young person or do you wish she knew something that you know now i actually.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Admire her courage when i look at the malala who was speaking at the un i can see the determination in her not just for her right to complete her education but for the right of every girl to be in school but at the same time i know that she does not have a childhood she is not herself i can see that at times i used to wish that my life was a bit different and i could be that normal self but at the same time i thought maybe when you become an activist these are the compromises or the sacrifices you have to make that you cannot be a normal person anymore and that for me meant that i could could not have friends that i could not imagine having somebody in my life who could love me that all of these things that i you know that i'm seeing that i think you know every normal girl young woman should be experiencing are not going to be a part of my.

[Rich Roll]

Life yeah yeah there's a lament to that like there's a sadness i mean the first line of the book is i'll never who i was supposed to be and that's how the whole thing kicks off and it's like i couldn't help but feel a little bit sad about that you're thrust into this life and you're shouldering tremendous responsibility as this global ambassador who's also responsible for the economic well being of your family and it's just so much on a young person not to mention having to field criticism from people all over the world for all kinds of weird reasons that would be more than enough for the most well adjusted adult but to be this young person in a foreign land who is just learning how to speak the language and figure out how to get along with classmates it's hard to overstate how overwhelming that must have been.

[Malala Yousafzai]

It was and to be honest i was looking for an escape and college was becoming that moment of escapism for me so when i was considering college i was so excited because i knew this would be the first time that i would not be living with my parents i would be living on my own i would be planning my own schedule myself like nobody's looking at my calendar and nobody should so i did not know what was ahead but i was just excited for the suspense for the curiosity for the adventure that was ahead i did not know if i were gonna become this old version of me the mischievous funny adventurous version of me but i said i will never know if i don't give it a try and that's why going to college was part of my my ambition of course i wanted to complete my studies because i wanted to make that dream that i had as a child to be able to complete my education which the taliban did not want us to come true but at the same time i said maybe this is a way i can explore who i am yeah.

[Rich Roll]

You have this tabla rasa this blank slate where you can figure out who you are and you can unleash your your inner troublemaker because you are a troublemaker this is how this whole thing started right and suddenly you're expected to be this very contrite ambassador and this quieter person in the room but fundamentally that's who you are and suddenly you're in this environment where you have the latitude the bandwidth to explore all of those things and it's a coming of age book it's a coming of age book for a young woman trying to figure out who she is in the world and it comes with you know anything all the things that you would expect for you know an average person who is in that experience from you know social media to going to parties and you know climbing the bell tower and you know going out for you know your first night at the club and all that kind of stuff so it was it's very delightful in that regard very human and very honest and.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Open yes i really enjoyed the college chapters in this book because i was enjoying just rereading about myself how the malala i had missed was coming back to life and i am so grateful that you know i could be like every other student and i remember when i was you know when we were packing clothes for my for my college my mom was packing all the traditional clothes which is like pakistani shalwar kameez very colorful and they stand out and that's how i have been seen in the public so i was like replacing it with more casual western clothing just normal jeans and a jumper or a sweater because i just did not want to stand out among the students and and that was a battle with my mom somehow but i made it through it and so when i went to college i was there as every other student who was new to this campus everybody wanted to make friends one story which i have not mentioned in the book because it would have been too many pages was the principal of college at oxford emailed me saying that he wants to send out an email to all the new students to inform them that i will be joining and that they should respect my privacy and i immediately went back and said please do not send any email to any student like who sends an email about a student i want them to see me like they would see any other student so i remember it was freshers week so the first week of college and i'm like walking around and i see one girl who is the same height as me so i'm short i'm like five foot tall so i was like huh my companion and turns out she was in the same college she studied the same subjects as me ppe and we were chatting and we were asking each other about what subjects we like what are we looking forward to when is our next lecture what clubs are we signing up for and it wasn't about you know oh like what was it like when you won the nobel peace prize or what happened to you in pakistan or who are the people you have met tell me everything about them i felt that i was finding those friends who were treating me like any other college friend so i instantly knew okay like i think we can be like friends you know through this.

[Rich Roll]

College journey finding new friends but you do talk about the fact that there was a banner with your face on it for was it like the debate club or something like that the sword union yes so you couldn't quite escape that and i'm sure word got around quickly anyway yeah there were moments but.

[Malala Yousafzai]

The friends i made they were just so supportive that in moments like that they would even help with taking photos that you know if anybody asked and then they would make a joke and we would move on and talk about the next lecture and the next essay or what are we doing the evening where do we want to eat but.

[Rich Roll]

You had two metropolitan police officers sort of assigned to you correct that kind of had to follow you around and be in your dorm et cetera you had to contend with that yes i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Think you know it's not easy to have a few people following you everywhere and they did not look like college students of course they were all like in their forties and fifties and much older so they did stand out but i think they just made sure that everything was okay for me and i think with that yes i was more comfortable just going to events without being worried about safety so they made it a lot a lot easier for me but at the same time my friends would sometimes freak out asking me if somebody was stalking me because they thought maybe these people were stalkers or why are these guys showing up and i said don't worry they are just here.

[Rich Roll]

To take care of us i appreciated your honesty around your academic struggles too you're this face of girls education and you represent that and yet here you are struggling to make grades and really struggling with how to focus and how to even just get your assignments done and show up on time for these lectures like there's a whole time management kind of thing going on as part of this story as well yeah in.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Oxford they say that there is socializing sleep and studying and you have to make a compromise on one of these and i realized that i could not even have any of these that's how my college life was i think i prioritized socializing over both sleep and studying i did that because i just wanted to learn from the people around me that is something that i knew i would not otherwise get because my life just looks so different in the workspace this was the first time that i was meeting both girls and boys especially boys like my age i just was fascinated by how like what are these young people doing what are they talking about i wanted to be in every gathering i wanted to talk about any silly topic we would talk about whose crush was whom and what was their star sign and why did they break up and i was becoming this therapist for my friends and i loved all of that i learned so much from my friends i remember sitting in the library trying to complete an assignment but i looked outside and i saw my friends laughing and just chatting and i said i want to be there i want to be with my friends right now i can come back to this book any other time so i think yes by the end of it yes i have developed these skills of but it was socializing that helped me grow as a person so much more and.

[Rich Roll]

You'Re balancing all of that with your responsibilities to the malala fund and having to travel and give talks and go to lebanon and talk to tim cook and you know like sort of very fancy sort of events that you're kind of shooting off and leaving school for in part because that's who you are and that's what you do as an advocate and an activist but also because you are responsible for providing for your family at the same time so you're the sole provider for your family you're also this student you're this global activist trying to balance all of those things and still make passing grades at the same time and have a social life and figure out dating and you know in this deferred childhood that you're experiencing you know it's a lot it was.

[Malala Yousafzai]

A lot and i think in the end it was affecting my academic life so much that my tutors got worried i was missing assignments i was late in submitting them so then my tutor got really worried and by the end of my first year i actually nearly failed my exams that was shocking to everybody i was not surprised though i said of course if i haven't studied that's what will happen so we did two things i think one was the tutor actually wrote to malala fund team and my parents that they cannot scale schedule anything during my college term time so when i'm in college it's a full time role like you are a student you cannot go and speak at events and then at the same time it was getting support at school if you are struggling with your studies you should ask for help there are facilities there are study centers that have been made for you initially i was i thought it was just me and i was somehow doubting myself that you know i might be the imposter why am i struggling but i realized that a lot of students actually get help so asking for help is also really important but you know initially it was on the work side it was difficult because the events that i went to whether that was the meeting with tim cook in lebanon or meeting with prime minister justin trudeau at the world economic forum all of these things like helped in the advocacy for girls education but at the same time you know like yes.

[Rich Roll]

Detracting from your own education simultaneously yes yes and how during this period of time are you reconciling your relationship with your heritage and your culture while also exploring what it's like to be a woman in the west in college i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Think it's really hard for women to even be given the opportunity to know what they love and how they want to dress especially so the culture that i come from in pakistan it is restricted for women to try clothes that are outside that culture so traditionally we wear shalwar kameez these are like loose modest clothes very colorful and they stand out and i have proudly worn those dresses on global platforms but i think people just sometimes associate it so much with you representing your religion or your culture or you becoming an ambassador that if a woman otherwise is choosing to wear a different dress somehow she is being disloyal to her culture or she's not a good woman anymore so i was under a lot of pressure to continue wearing shalwar kameez but when i went to college i said i cannot be wearing that every day because i just want to dress like every other student and students just wear jeans and jumpers or sweatshirts and it's just like you want to be like every other student so this whole controversy started when a photo of mine was leaked somebody took it and in that photo i'm wearing jeans and a bomber jacket and i'm wearing my headscarf as well but in the pakistani diaspora there was this backlash that i was somehow wearing western clothes now and that was a sign of i don't know like i cannot even explain it what to call it but it's just the hatred that you receive the criticism that you receive that you are not true to your culture anymore and you are not a good example for girls anymore and all of that and at the same time there were people who were criticizing my headscarf that i am not a truly liberated woman if i'm still wearing something that is part of my religion or culture so i think both there were sides that were sort of not happy either.

[Rich Roll]

Way maybe the best way to understand it or explain it is to talk a little bit about what it's like to grow up as a young girl in pakistan like in in twenty twelve had none of this happened and you remained what is the common trajectory and expectations that are placed on a young woman and what does that life typically.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Look like i always say that i was lucky because i had a supportive father who stood with me in my right to education because i saw so many girls not being able to go to school or complete their education because their brothers and their fathers would stop them from learning so when i imagine a different life in pakistan i know that my father and i and my mother we would constantly be fighting for everything can i go to college or not can i be on a campus in pakistan on my own or not what do i wear it would be an everyday conversation when i received this whole backlash and controversy around my genes in the uk it felt like that culture that was hundreds of miles away from me was still affecting me that i could not separate myself from it my mom and my dad they were receiving calls from our relatives that why is malala not wearing the traditional clothes anymore and and my parents also wished okay like you know sometimes they just wish this none of this criticism existed and like you know everybody was sort of happy but i told my parents that i want to be a college student just like everybody else i'm not in college for some pilgrimage i'm here as a normal student so i'm not gonna change what i wear i'll probably wear my scarf nobody can take that away from me and i will be wearing jeans as well nobody can take that away from me and i will be wearing shalwar kamee sometimes nobody can take that away from i think it's about choice women and girls should have the right to choose what they wear for themselves.

[Rich Roll]

This show is sponsored by betterhelp i don't know if you know this but october tenth is world mental health day and this year betterhelp is saying thank you to therapists the people who show up who listen and god bless help the mental health of millions to move their lives forward and for me therapy is just a non negotiable it's not something you just get into during tough moments but something i rely upon to check myself and for ongoing support betterhelp therapists have helped over five million people worldwide with twelve plus years of experience experience matching people to the right therapists from over thirty thousand licensed professionals average rating four point nine out of five based on over one point seven million client reviews so this world mental health day we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward if you are ready to find the right therapist for you betterhelp can help you start that journey right now our listeners get ten percent off their first month at betterhelp dot com richroll we are brought to you today by the wonderful folks at go brewing a few years ago there was this guy his name's joe chura and he called me up out of the blue and asked if i would speak at this event that he was hosting in illinois called go which turned out to be this incredibly memorable weekend for me and for all of the attendees because it was all about how to take inspired action joe and i connected but you know life moved on that was many years ago then a couple years back when i was at jesse itzler's running man event in georgia i'm walking the grounds when i see joe i was surprised to see him again of course of course sort of different context but also surprised because he had actually taken inspired action i shouldn't have been surprised knowing joe but i guess i was in the moment what he did was he took this idea of go and he turned it into the hottest new brand in non alcoholic beer called of course go brewing what sets go brewing apart is their refusal to cut corners everything is handcrafted from scratch in small batches this commitment to quality has propelled go brewing into one of america's fastest growing breweries now in over five thousand locations across twenty states their salty af chalada claimed the untapped number one non alcoholic lager spot in america they're constantly dropping all these bold new flavors double ipas incredible sours all without added sugars or any artificial nonsense the non alcoholic revolution isn't coming it's here people and i'm really honored to be championing it with joe so get on board by getting with go by going to gobrewing dot com where you're going to use the code rich roll for fifteen off your first purchase that's gobrewing dot com code rich roll role after hosting more than nine hundred episodes of this podcast i have noticed a pattern and that pattern is that the highest performers don't buy into the latest trendy hacks instead they obsess on what actually works which is always the unassuming basics and there is nothing more basic than hydration your body can't hold on to water without the right minerals without them water is just like this temporary visitor but element has cracked the code on this which is why i've been using it religiously for years zero sugar no artificial junk just sodium potassium and magnesium in the race they work and look i'm not exactly crushing ultras right now healing from this surgery but in some ways i need it even more in order to properly recover i need to treat my body even better than ever so it can heal properly and expeditiously while also maintaining my focus and my energy levels all of these podcasts write a book be a husband and a dad and i gotta say element keeps my brain firing in a way that water alone can't their new sample pack features their most popular flavor citrus salt raspberry salt water watermelon salt that's my favorite and orange salt eight perfect for finding your favorite or sharing with a friend get a free eight count sample pack of elements most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinklmnt dot com rich roll find your favorite element flavor or share it with a friend there is a boldness in that decision that echoes the original boldness around your activism when you were younger and i'd be remiss if i didn't ask you where that comes from was that instilled in you from your father are you just wired for that to be this courageous person who's testing the outer limits of what's acceptable i think it's a mix.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Of a few things my father was such an active bold advocate for women's rights so i would look up to him but my mom as well she is such a bold strong woman she she could not complete her education as a kid she didn't go to school but she has been learning since then so she has inspired me and then i think for me it was this realization that when your life is suddenly under terrorism you cannot be in school and you realize that things are not going to change by itself if you do not raise your voice if you do not do something about it things might remain as they are if you just keep on waiting for somebody else and help you so i immediately realized that we have to do everything we can speak locally speak internationally to media be part of the protests raise awareness like we have to tell the story.

[Rich Roll]

But there is a difference between having that awareness and then getting into action like i'm sure a lot of people you know have that aware like we need to do something but then there's a lot of you know the stakes are very high and you are putting yourself at risk in doing that and not everybody has the courage or the or the circumstances or the support behind them to take that leap into you know doing the things that you did.

[Malala Yousafzai]

For me the costs of not speaking out were too high a life without an education was dark i had seen girls being married off when they were still children themselves and their lives were unfulfilled they never achieved their dreams that was a nightmare that i was more scared of a life without an education than a life where i was speaking out but there was this threat from.

[Rich Roll]

The taliban how has your activism evolved in the period between addressing the un and the nobel prize et cetera to.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Today it has changed significantly and it's mostly because of the fact that i have support from from people from around the world i started as one activist myself but today we are supporting more than four hundred organizations in more than six countries around the world and it's the power of collective activism that can really drive change i still stick to my words when i said one child and one teacher can change the world but i think it begins with one person but to make that change happen and to make it a reality we need collective efforts so i believe in the power of collective activism now the organization which i started is investing directly in local education activists who are just like me and my father trying to raise awareness change a policy change legislation make sure that twelve years of education like both primary and secondary education is guaranteed in every country in every part of the world we are supporting activists in pakistan nigeria brazil tanzania ethiopia and then also most importantly we are working in afghanistan where the taliban have banned girls from learning so we are supporting education activists who are providing education through alternative platforms and are supporting them in their campaign to put pressure on leaders.

[Rich Roll]

To do more so you're able to hold onto the idealism that that young fifteen year old had despite the fact that you're in the world and doing the hard stuff like there's a pragmatism to it like when you have to confront real world problems and you realize like oh this is more complicated the fact that you're in so many countries now and you've had so much success i'm sure there's been many obstacles and roadblocks along the way that have confronted you with the limits of how much you're willing to compromise to achieve these.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Goals i think this is one of the challenges when you start as a young activist you are ambitious and bold but you also want the change to happen today this is what would frustrate me the most because you know i would be speaking with a world leader or a prime minister and we would be advocating to them to change their budget or you know do more for girls education and they would nod they would agree but then nothing would happen the next day and i would like talk to my team like it doesn't make sense to me like what does advocacy even mean like why is everybody agreeing and telling me my story is so inspiring but that we're getting nothing done i want them not to treat my story as an exception but that this is the story of every girl out there with time i realized that advocacy is such a powerful way of activism but it's also a draining and exhausting process it could take months it could take years it could take decades and it is significant because when we make that change happen it can impact millions of girls so i learned so much along the way i have learned that we have to work collectively it is about engaging all stakeholders and i also learned that we need to just do more for protecting the right to education for every girl in the world like what we are witnessing in afghanistan right now happening to girls there you know it makes me more worried about where we are in the world and how there's like little protection for women.

[Rich Roll]

And girls talk a little bit about afghanistan and what's going on there yeah.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I mean the taliban are back in control now it's been four years and they have imposed a gender apartheid on women and girls this is what afghan women activists call is beyond just gender discrimination or some cultural norms they are abusing their power to restrict women from learning from working from any appearance in public life and they punish women if they are seen doing any of that the taliban took over four years ago in august and that very same week i was actually in boston going through my last surgery to recover from one bullet injury by the taliban so the taliban bullet had injured my facial nerve because of which then i had this facial asymmetry something that had affected how i looked before and i went through many surgeries for that but this was one last surgery to complete this facial symmetry and hopefully see a bit more progress in recovering the smile and and so just hearing the news that very same week when i was recovering from that like one bullet by the taliban to know that now millions of afghan girls will be living under them and they will be re experiencing the oppression that afghanistan had faced twenty years before that it was scary it was like living a nightmare it's been really challenging time just like witnessing what's happening there but i stay determined it's just a reminder that the words of praise and the recognition and these awards and titles that we get or i have been given sure i appreciate that but what about other girls why are we not doing more for them why is it that one somebody has survived and they have a nice story that we go and clap for them but when they are still under fire when they're still facing violence and extremism we look away because it's just really hard it's really hard to help others somehow so i'm just doing all that i can to support afghan activists and just to make sure that things change sooner for them.

[Rich Roll]

What does that support look like i mean you talked about collective action but if you could remove the obstacles and the barriers and just solve the problem like how would you do that like what are the intractable issues at play that prevent that from succeeding many things.

[Malala Yousafzai]

You know we all know that when it comes to this international system things get so complicated there are so many wars going on and we are like you know can somebody stop them i do think that will and intention is really important and our leaders have so much power but they look away so the first thing is like building global pressure on world leaders to hold the taliban accountable the second thing is any conversations that happen with the taliban women have to be in those rooms women cannot be excluded they have to be on the agenda as well and i'm saying this because because this actually has happened repeatedly any of these peace talks that have happened women and the civil society were deliberately excluded it happened last year as well in doha in qatar where the taliban demanded that they do not even want to see women in the conversations and the un officials agreed that shook me that wait a second if we cannot even fight for the women to be present in the room how can we have hope that we will protect their rights inside afghanistan and.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah the battle's lost before it's even.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Begun and i think it's just repeatedly understanding that the taliban are perpetrators it's not the first time that they're doing all of this they have been in power before so they're repeating it and they're worse than before so why are they given a second chance why are we being told that oh this time these taliban are different and this is taliban two point zero the taliban have proven it to us in the past four years that they do not see women as equal humans they treat women as second class citizens and it is a form of an apartheid for women and girls in afghanistan if you are born a girl in afghanistan you cannot be in school you cannot imagine working you have to be just dependent on other family members you cannot have a future for yourself you cannot be an artist you cannot be a singer you cannot play sports you cannot be in the government all of these things are taken away from you when i think about a situation like that and just see the world feels so helpless then i worry about women everywhere so one campaign that afghan women are leading right now is to codify gender apartheid in the crime against humanity treaty and i know it sounds like a bit too technical and might be sounding too complicated to people but it simply means that we just do not have protection against systemic oppression like that that the taliban is imposing and i think it should not just be a topic about afghanistan i think it's a topic about women's rights and protection everywhere if perpetrators like the taliban if an oppressive government like the taliban take over and they use the system to make women as second class citizens take away all of their rights ban them from education and work what are we going to do so when it becomes part of the international law it not only holds the taliban accountable but it then holds every other country in the world accountable for taking actions to put pressure on the taliban like not normalize relations with them it's.

[Rich Roll]

A war of ideas on the global stage because the tool of diplomacy isn't going to work with the taliban face to face they're never going to change their mind on this so only by global pressure being placed upon them is there ever going to be any movement.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Here yeah so i have talked to afghan activists about this we support afghan education activists who are leading these campaigns and they all say that you know the taliban need to be pressurized there needs to be a collective voice from world leaders but also muslim leaders as well i think we need more muslim countries to step forward in none of these other muslim countries are women and girls banned from education and work so they need to make a clear statement that what the taliban is doing is actually un islamic there are many ways from sanctions to other strategies that can be used against the taliban to put pressure on them right now they're getting the money they're getting everything they're sort of supported so it is worrying it is worrying if world leaders are just simply issuing tweets of condemnation and they're not going beyond that what is the.

[Rich Roll]

Current status in pakistan how has it changed since twenty twelve or has it.

[Malala Yousafzai]

So pakistan is a lot different than afghanistan of course and even like within pakistan if you compare the area that borders with afghanistan it's very different than the rest of the country so now with the re emergence of the taliban in power in afghanistan some areas of pakistan are also seeing the rise of the pakistani taliban and these militant groups and we sometimes hear the news of schools being attacked or girls being threatened not to go to school so i do worry but i don't think it has affected that many parts of the country but it's like the spillover effect when an ideology like the taliban when an ideology like that of the taliban is happening in one place there's no guarantee that it can happen anywhere else and that's why i'm hoping that more countries will step up and talk about it and just not treat it as a side issue that's happening somewhere else and that doesn't affect them during your.

[Rich Roll]

Time at oxford there's this tension between you trying to discover who it is that you are while also balancing all of the expectations that are being placed upon you not just by the world but also your family there's a certain role that you're kind of intended to play was there ever a moment during that period of time where you thought maybe you didn't want to be an activist anymore maybe you wanted to be a biologist or something else or have you remained convicted that this is your.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Life path just for fun yes i have thought about what else i could have been and i do ask this question myself all the time like what would that little malala have wanted i remember my first dream job was to be a car mechanic because i loved fixing things i also wanted to be a doctor for a long time then i wanted to be the prime minister of pakistan and then i said okay like these politicians are also rubbish so maybe something else but benazir bhutto is.

[Rich Roll]

Still you know it seems to me that she's your greatest inspiration i mean she went to the same school at.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Oxford right yeah we were in the.

[Rich Roll]

Same college yes is that part of the reason why you selected that college.

[Malala Yousafzai]

No the college is called lady margaret hall and it was the first women's college in oxford and it's a beautiful college it has a beautiful library and gardens benazir bhutto went to that college as well so the first female prime minister of pakistan there were so many like and i said i love this place but the thing that stayed with me when i first visited the college were the gardens and the river that flows by it and when i was by the river i just felt a sense of belonging just by being so close to something that i remembered from my time in pakistan in swat valley like in my village because we have mountains and rivers there and it just made me feel closer to home so it's something i just could not explain to anybody but yes it was definitely the river in the gardens that i.

[Rich Roll]

Loved the most but also the library right you talk about how you'd only had a couple books you'd only owned a couple books in your entire life and then suddenly you're in this prestigious college and there's all these books available to you but also the intimidation of like oh my god i've never you know like i don't even know what that means like how can how are you gonna manage that yes and actually.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Women were not allowed to go to other colleges or libraries at oxford at the time so this college when they started like allowing women to study also started collecting books for them so there was this whole history behind it how women just you know one hundred plus or so years ago did not have access to education even in a country.

[Rich Roll]

Like the uk do you feel like this path that you're on was divinely inspired for you like there's so many unlikely events that have occurred just the fact that like you're living this life when you were twelve years old you couldn't have fathomed for yourself that on paper doesn't make sense at all and yet here you are shouldering this responsibility and and really like i can feel in your energy like you're owning it you know you're really you're standing up and really owning this place this position that you have in the world it.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Is true i have owned this new trajectory that my life has taken i realized that there was not much i could do you know that's just the reality you cannot go back to the old life you have to think about the fact that yes you know you have to recover and security is an issue and you have to restart your school okay like college before you know it you have come like a long way and you realize like i just i i thought out like in my head i thought i would go back to pakistan i just wanted like to be back with my friends and all of that but you know like this year in springtime when i went back to pakistan and when i visited a school that we have started there for girls and it's the first school that is giving education to girls that they can complete up to grade twelve i just was fathoming this moment that if i had not taken this different path maybe the school would not have been possible and this has been my dream the whole time to be able to help girls access education to make their dreams come true so when i was meeting the first class that are graduating from the school for the first time in that whole village we are having this number of girls like thirty plus girls to graduate from grade twelve it's insane it's happening even though it's like twenty twenty five it's happening for the first time i was like maybe you know maybe for whatever reasons all that has happened happened for a good reason and sometimes i think you have to turn it around you have to make sure that this new pathway now serves your purpose.

[Rich Roll]

I think you all know that i'm all about wellness but what i'm not really about is our culture's current obsession with focusing on the margins of wellness things like expensive exotic adaptogens or the latest extreme biohacking trend while also at the same time often overlooking the basic fundamentals nutrients that are foundational to thriving research suggests that many of us struggle to get optimal amounts of protein creatine or omega three s from food alone but these three nutrients are the bedrock of cellular health brain function muscle recovery cardiovascular support it all depends on them and that is the philosophy behind the momentous three taken daily this routine supports every cellular function of the brain and body their vegan omega three delivers one thousand milligrams of epa and dha from marine algae at potency levels that were unheard of in plant formulas until recently their plant protein provides a complete amino acid profile and everything is backed by the momentous standard rigorous testing transparent sourcing and developed alongside leading researchers to serve everybody from athletes at the highest levels of peak performance to everyday people just looking to level up so check it out use code richroll at livemomentous dot com richroll for up to thirty five percent off your first order we're brought to you today by birch sleep is one of those things that at this point especially if if you're a longtime listener of the rrp we know matters but sometimes we focus a little bit too much on nifty sleep hacks while overlooking the foundation that makes it possible literally what we're sleeping on meaning of course our mattress something most of us just kind of accept and live with without really considering the materials we're lying on for a third of our lives and that's what drew me to birch they craft mattresses with responsibly sourced materials things like organic fair trade cotton and natural latex no synthetic materials no harmful off gassing that can happen in the manufacturing process what's also impressive is that birch owns their manufacturing facility and they rely on skilled manufacturers to produce the highest quality product every birch birch mattress comes with a one hundred night risk free trial and a twenty five year warranty deep consistent restful sleep is so important i want all of you who are watching and listening to enjoy that and i want you to begin that process by checking out a new mattress from birch go to birchliving dot com richroll and there you will get twenty percent off that's birchliving dot com slash rich roll you're not without your critics one of my favorite parts in the book is when you come across some not so nice things being said about you on instagram and you decide to do what i think a lot of young people do which is create a finsta like a fake instagram account and you fill it with with images of bodybuilders and then you start to engage with this person i mean does that account still exist no i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Deleted it i was worried i was worried i said me bodybuilder six packs you know i came across this comment on instagram on a post about me and this person had threatened me so i said okay like i wanna understand how people think and if i can convince this person so i started chatting with them and said why do you wanna attack malala and why why do you hate her that person just was not providing any explanation he was just saying she's a bad person and this time when she comes back to pakistan we will make sure she goes to hell i was shaking when i was texting i went to my school friend alice and i said oh my god here are some screenshots i don't know how to and she said delete your account stop chatting she said never do.

[Rich Roll]

That did you share that with your.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Security detail i mean it's sort of like reported but yeah it's just you never know who runs these accounts and.

[Rich Roll]

What have you but how did the experiment go of trying to you know.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Confront this person and this is something that i'm still trying to process you know when i was young still in school and when i became known as this global advocate for peace and for education in my heart i was just thinking about how we can go and convince every person that girls should be allowed to be in school how can we get rid of hatred how can we spread more love and more compassion and i was of the view that somehow we could magically make everybody think the same way and come to an.

[Rich Roll]

Agreement and why would that be controversial or something that would open you to.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Criticism that's not controversial it's just like that's how i used to think but.

[Rich Roll]

That'S what i mean like all you want is to do this thing that.

[Malala Yousafzai]

No but i realized that i thought like i could and i think this is something that we all have to reflect on is that can we go and convince every person to think like us and if they don't what does that mean does it mean we hate them does it mean we target them or does it mean we actually agree to coexist in harmony in compassion even if we don't have the same opinions and that's what i actually am now focusing on like how do we like agree to disagree how do we carry more compassion for each other even if we do not have similar views try to find the common bonds because before we even realize when we start talking there's so much that we actually agree on than we disagree on so i'm less focused on like i want everybody to think exactly like me and more on i want to hear you and i want you to hear me as.

[Rich Roll]

Well but beneath that is an assumption that through that process you can come to some understanding right and in this experiment on instagram it didn't exactly go.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Well no it was early days early.

[Rich Roll]

Days and i think you know you're.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Because i wanted to convince the person i wanted to figure out what do they think deep in their head you know and to tell them like don't hate this person and i just could.

[Rich Roll]

Not you know what do you think people most misunderstand about you like if there's a misunderstanding floating around out there about you that that drives you nuts.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Many but i think it's that i am a serious person because i talk about serious issues which then somehow people assume means i am just boring and serious but that's not actually true no.

[Rich Roll]

All you have to do is go to your tiktok or your instagram go.

[Malala Yousafzai]

To my tiktok read my book learn about me at college learn about me with my now husband and how funny and annoying i am and so yeah i think i want to share a bit more about my humor and i think for me it was being true to myself so these are like true honest reflections i have not hidden anything there are moments that i am like i regret i'm like why would i say that or why did i do that but i sort of was opening up about everything in this book in.

[Rich Roll]

The writing of the book i suspect that just that process in and of itself was its own form of therapy forcing you to confront your own story and make sense of it as a process of reconciling your past and maybe some experiences that you were deprived of and other ones that you didn't necessarily sign up for that that you were thrust into what did you learn most about yourself as a consequence of this.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Project this whole writing process was therapeutic i spoke with my friends i went back to my journals i reflected on many things that had happened in my life it was difficult but it helped me get a closer look and i also realized how there were things that actually saved me and helped me when i was going through the lowest points in my life so when i had anxiety and panic attacks and flashbacks of the attack i was introduced to therapy that changed everything for me so i was hoping that through sharing my story i can help somebody out there who might feel lost who might not know that you know they could ask for help i wish i had heard a story like this and i wish i knew that therapy is okay and you should ask for help sooner so i'm hoping that this can help somebody out.

[Rich Roll]

There the mental health journey that's baked into the story i mean you didn't have to be as open and honest about how that unfurled as you were like your first panic attack was in the aftermath of doing your first boss bong hit you know it's like and that's i'm sure you know when people read that they're going to be like oh my god you know just envisioning.

[Malala Yousafzai]

You doing that i know like i thought that was going to be the beginning of my you know journey exploring and experimenting things but that became my first and last bong experience because it just didn't turn out how i expected it to be i remember that night because you know it became a scary night i was initially like with my friends we were just chatting about college life and we were in the college gardens and they showed me bong and i said oh like what is this they said you know it's sort of weed you try it and like first attempt i coughed on the second attempt when i inhaled it i felt it just went all inside my body and that's when it took a sharp turn because my body froze i could not even move and immediately i thought i was reliving the taliban attack and i felt that i was you know i was going to die you know it's that time in this induced coma that i experienced after the taliban attack where i could not understand what was happening if i was awake or asleep if i was alive or dead and in that whole night after this bong experience i was sweating shaking terrified i wanted to scream it was truly truly a nightmare and i could not sleep i could not sleep because i thought if i closed my eyes i would die and it took me actually months to seek therapy so for like this flashback and then panic attacks started i was not being myself anymore but my college friends actually saw that something was not okay and then one of my friends said that i should see a therapist and she told me that it's okay like a lot of students see therapists yeah so like seven years later after the attack was when i started therapy.

[Rich Roll]

Again and you had to overcome whatever narrative you had in your mind about what therapy meant in order to oh.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I thought it would be like you know they ask you how was you know how are you feeling today and what does that make you feel i just thought they would never understand my experiences so when i went to my first therapy session i thought i would be given all the medication that would make all of these problems go away and i was like waiting for some treatment for it to be fixed but i learned that it was actually a process learning how your thoughts and emotions are different from the actions and just understanding that this is actually ptsd and anxiety that's what my therapist told me that you know it can happen i think for me the most like disappointing or painful part was that it was happening after such a long time i thought that i had overcome the attack it was a story of the past and somehow it all came back like as if it just happened all over again that was really painful to process and i just hated that i was like you know i wish it's not ptsd i just did not want to have ptsd but these things can affect you and i think it's important to raise awareness about it because you thought.

[Rich Roll]

That that would mean that you were weak or because it was going to be so much work to get to the other side of it i think.

[Malala Yousafzai]

It was both i actually felt that i was not living up to the expectation of being brave and courageous i thought i had somehow failed how i was supposed to be and i was like really proud of myself before that look survived a bullet look where i am i'm fighting for all girls and suddenly seven years later i am shaking i'm getting scared and frightened you know when i cannot even figure out what is it that's making me scared you know it's this fear from nothing that is really really scary but you recognize.

[Rich Roll]

Of course the insanity of believing that this young person who was literally shot in the head by terrorists and wakes up in a completely different world with the world the entire world paying attention to you and you're suddenly doing all of these things that were so off script from what you thought your life was gonna be like this might be something you might wanna talk to somebody about like there's no way anybody could endure that without you know having to you know kind of grapple with it and reconcile it like it's just you know it's the very definition of surviving a trauma yeah.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I think i feel that the memory of the attack was there all along i feel like my mind refused to acknowledge it and this flashback experience many years later in college was reminding me that maybe i did remember maybe i did see what the taliban did and it was actually scary to comprehend that at the same time i was just coming to understand what that means for me now like i still want to be an activist for girls and am i failing if i feel scared and i redefine bravery now i think it is when you still stand up despite the anxiety the panic attacks the doubts the trauma i call it true courage now true bravery courage.

[Rich Roll]

And bravery don't presuppose that there is no fear it's taking the action in.

[Malala Yousafzai]

The face of that yeah but i understood it the other way around yeah.

[Rich Roll]

And is it true that you're still with the same therapist i believe at the end of the book you were still seeing the same person but the book ends like five years before today.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah i started seeing the therapist again yes and i'm still seeing her and.

[Rich Roll]

If you were to say something to the audience or the person who's watching or listening to this who has some trepidation around therapy what is that message.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I think firstly it is different for everybody so i do not call myself a mental health expert but i am sharing my story of my mental health journey because i want all of you to know that this can happen to any of us at any time in our life and it's never too late to ask for help be there for those who need us and ask for help when you need it in order.

[Rich Roll]

For you to do what you do your work your advocacy your activism to the best of your ability requires that you place yourself like you're basically having to re traumatize yourself because you're exposing yourself to environments similar to the one that you survived and so it makes perfect sense that this would maintaining your mental health is the number one priority in this lifelong mission that you're on because your ability to be an activist at the highest level means that you have to show up as your best self otherwise as we were talking about earlier you're going to burn out or something's going to you're going to crack and you're not going to be able to continue to do it i have.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Started looking after myself initially i thought that when you are an activist it means you work twenty four seven and you do not eat you don't sleep but i was wrong i realized that when i started looking after myself more that included sleeping enough hours or going out for a walk taking some fresh air i was actually being more productive i was getting more done in less hours so yeah like fitness has become a whole new thing for me well.

[Rich Roll]

One thing we share in common is we're both wearing a whoop on our i was like i didn't expect you to show up wearing a whoop yes.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I think i love it but the thing that i'm really scared to look at is my whoop age that's frightening.

[Rich Roll]

The new yeah the new thing i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Know it's like you're aging really and i'm like please don't tell me please do not tell me that what is.

[Rich Roll]

Your relationship with you know that kind of data and feedback and also with.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Social media yeah i mean i say this to everybody it's supposed to like indicate something it's supposed to guide you do not take it as fixed numbers about where you are in life with your health and fitness so if it's showing something like you know you're about your fitness level or you know your recovery or how good your sleep is it's just telling you like you need to change your habits a bit like that's the most important thing but i also panic sometimes when i look at my sort of readings and i'm like.

[Rich Roll]

Huh you know your sleep score yeah.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Sometimes you're like you know what i'm just gonna take it off because it's hard to look at it but yeah i realized that sleep is the most important thing you have to start from there i no longer have vanilla with french fries anymore for my food i am trying to eat better you are.

[Rich Roll]

On this fitness journey though you're like sharing on social media your workouts and videos of you on the treadmill and things like that and in the book you talk about discovering fitness as a therapeutic for your mental health and this goal that you had to be able to run an hour and then ultimately facing your fear of the water like learning how to swim as almost a trust exercise for your mental health these.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Are places where i could never see myself so i feel like it's an adventure where you allow yourself to be in unfamiliar environments trusting water to hold you when you learn to swim or trusting your body to be able to do something i never thought that i could run or i could play golf i could hit a ball with a racket all of these things are just truly magical once you give it a try so i said you know what like it doesn't matter how bad i am at each of these things i just want to play i just want to try it and i'm like a completely different person when i'm playing a sport i become like so competitive i become aggressive and if it's my husband playing against me then oh you know.

[Rich Roll]

What are your favorite sports to play.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Then so we both play golf i've been taking lessons for more than two years now and i love it i.

[Rich Roll]

Absolutely love it but on the sports tip i mean there's also an entire entrepreneur story with you there is the activism and the malala fund and the nonprofit world that is your focus and your priority but you also have recess capital with your husband where you're investing in women's sports right now and you have extracurricular which is your production company where you're involved in the production of of films and documentaries but maybe start with the women's sports piece how did you get interested in that and what's going on right now in terms of.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Your involvement sports is one thing that both my husband and i are so passionate about and we have been following women's sports very closely we have been going to women's sports games so we started this farm which is called recess capital that invests in women's sports ecosystem and for us it's this ambition that we want to create more opportunities for women and girls to play and that women's sports should be treated as a sports business like any other male sports so you know i think about girls who are at school and in recess time they are trying different sports the boys can imagine playing like all of these famous athletes that they hear about and they can think about the leagues where they can make a career we need to create similar opportunities for girls as well so i want the recess time to look differently for girls in the future where a girl can play any sport and she can imagine a career for herself in that what is.

[Rich Roll]

The current state of girls sports in.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Pakistan it is gaining some momentum we are passionate about playing cricket that is a sport everybody loves but it's far behind men's sports we have cricket which is the biggest sport in the country we have the men's cricket team and we have actually a private league called pakistan super league for men but we don't have a women's version of that yet which you know like if you think about all the sports and how many leagues there are for like men how many private leagues there are where they could just go and play around you know in different places throughout the year and make you know a living there's plenty for men for women there's.

[Rich Roll]

Like very very few obviously the middle east there's a you know a wide spectrum in terms of women and girls rights and the relationship of those cultures to sp it does feel like there is change in some of those regions i know i've seen it firsthand i've been to beirut a couple times and i did the beirut marathon and that's a big one for women across the middle east running and you see these run clubs of girls and women from all different regions of the middle east coming to kind of celebrate women in movement through that event i think things.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Are changing for women everywhere especially through sports right now i remember having this conversation with my husband when we were thinking about starting recess capital i asked him what his school life was like as a boy and what sports opportunities did he have access to he said yes all of them like he went to a good school in pakistan they could play hockey and cricket and football everything and then i was comparing it to my life as a student in pakistan on a sports day the boys would go to the local cricket ground and the girls had to stay back in the school there was just no opportunity no field no space for them no equipment for them and that makes you think that if we do not create opportunities for them if we do not invest in it like things are just gonna be as they are so i hope that more and more people come in and create more opportunities for women and girls in sports everywhere and we'll also be doing our part on.

[Rich Roll]

The film and documentary side of things how does that work what is the model of your production company because you've been involved in a bunch of projects.

[Malala Yousafzai]

At this point already yes so my production company has worked with apple tv we have two documentaries on apple tv already called the last of the sea women which is the story of korean free divers and the second one is bread and roses which is a story of three brave afghan women who share with us about their life when the taliban take over and how they stand up to them we're working on a lot of other projects as well but now extracurricular is focusing more on creating sports content to be in sync with the research capital work and these are.

[Rich Roll]

All of a piece with your advocacy work like thematically i mean i have.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Been an activist for more than fifteen years now i understand the strengths of the nonprofit world i have raised more than two hundred million dollars and invested that in local education activists we have changed policies we have impacted the lives of millions of girls out there but i also know that we cannot limit ourselves to one path we have to think about the bigger picture for me it is empowering education activists investing directly in girls the second thing is storytelling i believe that storytelling can help us change perspectives it can help us change the narrative and that can unlock opportunities for so many more girls and women and then the other one is create opportunities and platform for them like giving them more power giving them more tools that we're not just talking about the world that it should be but we are actually getting in and making that happen i have been asked to give a message of empowerment to girls many many times i mean that's what i've been doing like inspire girls and i tell girls yes believe in yourself and follow your dreams but their response to me is like there are still no opportunities for us in this field in this sector less opportunities in sports less opportunities in the storytelling world in the filming world so when you reflect on it you realize okay i think we need to do more what if we can be a part of the change where we create and invest in these opportunities for women and girls so that when they have a dream they know that there is a pathway to make that dream come true what are the.

[Rich Roll]

Biggest obstacles that you currently face to achieve yeah i mean i'm just thinking like in your day to day like in the many things that you're doing are there recurring things that come up that that frustrate you that you wish you could overcome more easily or perhaps obstacles that people might not be aware of that are ever present in you trying to push your ideas forward i.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Mean many things but just right now i am thinking a lot about how the world of social media is is exposing us in such a different and difficult way so you know like i come across all sorts of comments and backlash and responses and i sometimes notice that people are talking about what other people are saying or like you know some sort of like misleading headline they're talking about and i see less effort towards actually getting to know the person so my hope is that people if they're interested can know me by following my work directly more closely rather than just following some sort of narrative or rumor out there they can read my books they can follow my accounts they can see closely what i advocate for who i am so yeah that's sort of one thing i wish for more and that's why i have openly talked about myself in my new book outside.

[Rich Roll]

Of your relationship with your husband do you have mentors or other people in your close circle who advise you or inspire you in certain ways i have.

[Malala Yousafzai]

A lot of incredible people around me but it's usually my college friends who i can meet with the same people from the books anytime yes i think when i'm with them i don't feel like i have to sound so perfect and i have to figure it all out when i speak to them i go to them when i have no clue what i'm saying and i need them to listen to me and just help me process my thoughts and i treasure those friends because when i'm with them i don't feel like they're judging me i can be myself and this is a sense of like security that i get around them that i absolutely love so i feel a lot more comfortable when i'm chatting with my friend about like anything in life do you.

[Rich Roll]

Have a particular project right now that you're energized around or excited about that's on the near horizon yes i'm really.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Excited about the work that afghan women activists are leading right now to codify gender apartheid of course it's going to be a few years long journey but the crime against humanity treaty would open up for conversations in twenty twenty six and i hope that we ask our representatives our leaders to do more about it and ask them about their commitment to gender equality if they're failing to do anything for afghan women and girls so i'm like i'm excited i'm optimistic i hope that we'll be able to shift the narrative and hopefully drive the conversation in the right direction so afghan women and girls have justice and at the same time their future actually changes they can be in school they can.

[Rich Roll]

Go to work when i think about the young version of you who said how does it go like one book one one teacher one pen is that what you said exactly i said one.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Child one teacher one book and one pen can change the world can change.

[Rich Roll]

The world when you see that young face saying that it's easy to say oh well that's just the idealism of a young person but you are proof you have proved that to be the case like it is true your life is you're a living example of that so when you are talking to or thinking about the younger generation of people of activists that are out there or people who are aspiring to make a positive impact on the world do you have a variation on that message now having lived much more life like what do you want to say to the young generation of up and coming people who want to do something meaningful young.

[Malala Yousafzai]

People are so ambitious and they're already advocating for justice whether that is for climate or social issues or communities and people around the world so i don't think like young people need any advice from me to be honest i look up to them and i think more of us should be looking up to young people and actually follow their footsteps but a few things that i have learned from my own experience as an activist are that firstly we have to stay truthful sometimes it's about being true and it's about holding the same values for everyone and talking about a fairer and better future for every person so i think truth is the most important thing and i encourage everybody who becomes an activist who's questioning what should i say and what should i focus on be true be true to yourself and be true to the issue that you want to highlight and truth is sometimes really hard to address and really hard to talk about but you need to have open and honest conversations and be truthful and the second thing is collective advocacy i admire every person who stands up because they create the spark they set a direction for others to follow but it is the work of people coming together that can help us so i think about when people mobilize each other but i also think about different sectors coming together from businesses and private sector to all of these other platforms that we have we all should be reflecting on how we can play a part and it should not just be about ngo's and the activists or just.

[Rich Roll]

What you're saying on social media yeah exactly that's that's a piece in a larger puzzle that you then need to take into the world and actually take.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Action collectively yeah i started my activism at a time when i had literally nothing my dad and i could only speak and tell our stories like that was our weapon but now that i have a platform like malala fund i am doing fundraising to invest in education activists i think about how we are moving and shifting policies i've realized that sometimes putting a statement or a tweet about every issue is going to do little and i'm not discouraging it i'm not criticizing people who do that i'm like yes i need to do it from time to time but sometimes i just think about like more practical actions first before actually consider a tweet i think about who can i call who can we write to can i be at that place can we go and support a local organization there this is like i think about more practical steps and i would encourage other people as well to think about that on social media like people tweet about something and they feel like they have said the correct thing even though i think we should not have that view either because there are different nuances and we should actually acknowledge that everybody's coming from a different perspective and they all can be true at the same time but i think just doing a tweet and then feeling good about yourself i don't think that is going to contribute to a change in the long term we have to think about more ways in which we are shifting conversations we are mobilizing communities we are empowering those who are actually doing work on the ground who are delivering the support we have to think about how do we hold leaders to account how do we shift their policies and their conversations so like i sometimes want people to like step back a bit and sure this is all.

[Rich Roll]

Wisdom that you earned though as a result of walking the path that you've been on that you didn't have when you were you know when the incident occurred so in the context of young people like they're gonna have to figure that out for themselves i suppose but i think passing that on is very.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Helpful yeah and i feel like i'm still learning so i actually hesitate to give any advice to people because i'm like this is one thing we need to change actually when people think they know it all actually there's very little that we know i travel around the world i meet incredible people and every time i learn so much that i'm like ugh like i don't think i.

[Rich Roll]

Know anything is there an example where you were convinced something was a certain way and only by traveling to the place and engaging with the people there did you discover that what you believed was incorrect.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I mean many things but i think about the policy level changes that are happening in nigeria for girls education and for me i was like you know why don't i just go and sit down with the president and tell him do this and he signs the paper and thumbs up education is there for everybody but that's not how it happens these activists begin with research they collect data they actually give a picture of the reality like what is actually happening in these communities how many girls are out of school what exactly is happening to them how many schools are there how many teachers are there and they tell us what is actually missing then they engage different government officials at different levels they start that conversation then the government officials have to be told this is something that actually benefits your narrative and your manifesto governments keep changing you have to be prepared for when the transition happens and how you have to bring that conversation back you have to acknowledge that the system is much more complicated state governments are different than the federal ones and how do you bring them together so when i was in nigeria just a few weeks ago i was meeting the education activists that malala fund is supporting and they were explaining it to me how some of the policy changes that they are seeing happen in some of the states in nigeria is the outcome of years of work so they were able to pass legislation in adamawa state and in the kaduna state which now guarantees twelve years of education to every girl and it's so simple that should have been done a long time ago but it required mobilizing different political bodies people making committees doing a lot of research work on the ground engaging girls and the local community leaders there are religious people who are very influential in the community engaging them when i just follow their stories of how they make the work happen i realize that that it's not simply about doing a tweet and giving one speech that can fix it it's a combination of all of that it's a combination of everything so we have to think in the long term we have to have a pathway of when we are doing something or saying something where are we actually heading and what is it that we want to see in the end so the work in nigeria that education activists are doing is.

[Rich Roll]

Truly incredible talk a little bit about where that deep commitment to your education.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Came from i knew that my family was exceptional because i had seen how many girls were missing out on their education so i like loved every day in school you know i have met now kids from around the world and i have seen how like they complain about school and they can't wait to finish their school it was the other way around for us in pakistan my girlfriends and i just hated like finishing school we wanted to be in our school forever and whenever we would do like henna on our hands we would draw like math equations and like you know physics like formulae and stuff like that that's how much we loved it we were all about school and learning.

[Rich Roll]

And what do you make of that like where does that come from why is there that difference whereas as you pointed out in the west it's like we just can't wait to get out of school or get out of having to go to class i think we.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Have seen closely what it means to not have the opportunity to be in school i remember the days when the taliban announced a ban on girls education it was january two thousand nine i was eleven years old and all my girlfriends and i could not go to school and i remember the day when my brothers packed their school bags and put on their school uniform and walked off and i had to stay behind at home so when you realize that it can actually be a reality for girls where they're told they cannot love they cannot be in school it frightens you it scares you for just the different life that women are supposed to live where they're just not treated as equal humans and it's really really scary we see it happening in afghanistan right now under the taliban but we are hearing these stories still from many parts of the world it's still a reality in many countries so i think women and girls know because they know the costs of not being in school and that's why nobody knows the importance of education more than those women and girls and sometimes i'm asked to explain the importance of education and i say go ask a girl she'll tell you what.

[Rich Roll]

Is your counsel to the person who says to you i'm not an activist i have a full time job my life is busy i want to be involved but you know i've never done anything like this before like what are three things that you could share that would be helpful in helping someone like.

[Malala Yousafzai]

That get involved i think activism begins with a question like that it's the will to be able to do something and for me the definition of activism is much broader i do not just see it simply as as protesting on the streets or saying chants all the time i think we can all be doing activism in private in public spaces so here are a few things that i would encourage somebody who is interested to do i think the first one would be to know what they're passionate about what is it that interests them what is it that causes anger what is it that they want to address i think just knowing what you want to see change is really important the second one is talk to the people who are working for it they will tell you how you can be helpful to them it could be spreading the word it does not always have to be on social media it can even be having a conversation with your family members with your colleagues or in your workspace when we started a topic or a conversation that can be helping change perspectives in a lot of ways and just never underestimating the support that we give whether that is fundraising or bringing attention to the work that these other activists are doing i think it's still part of the the collective activism you're.

[Rich Roll]

Still so young you have your entire career ahead of you looking into the future ten years twenty years down the road what does the world look like if you get your way.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Wow i mean every girl is in school education is a right that is there for every child like it's no longer a privilege i want to see a world where every girl can choose her own future and she can decide that pathway for herself and i hope that we all make it come true and what.

[Rich Roll]

Is your aspiration for the book what do you want people to get out.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Of reading this book i hope that this book is a fun enjoyable read for everybody i know that there are tough topics in it as well so i hope that it opens a conversation about talking about mental health or topics like a sense of belonging and how do we navigate through these changes and transitions in our life and i think most importantly if there is somebody who is going through a challenge in life or a mental health struggle i hope that they know that you know they can always ask for help and they should ask for help i hesitated in doing that but i'm so happy that in the end i did ask for help and i did start getting therapy that changed everything for me so i hope that it can help somebody out.

[Rich Roll]

There well i will say that you know malala you know i can't imagine somebody who has lived a more different life than i have but in the specificity of the story that you tell in this book there's something universal in it because we all have our struggles and our mental health challenges and i think every human being also goes through that process of trying to figure out who they are like what part of my identity has been been imposed upon me and what part of this is authentically me i think that's a journey that's a very human journey and i think we can all find a little piece of ourselves in this beautiful book that you've written and i commend you for writing it and i commend you for the openness and the authenticity like you're exposing yourself in a very real way but the consequence of that is that i'm able to sit across from you and feel like i'm i'm seeing the whole human oh thank you yeah and i encourage everybody to pick it up finding my way and if people want to get involved in what you're doing through the malala fund can you say a little bit about how they.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Can do that yes so they can go to malala dot org website they can see the work that we are doing there are different toolkits if you want to raise awareness about the work you could also donate and and support the work that malala fund is doing yeah i would really appreciate that good.

[Rich Roll]

And keep being a troublemaker thank you we did it thank you so much i appreciate it that's it for today thank you for listening i truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guests including links and resources related to everything discussed today visit the episode page at richroll dot com comma where you can find the entire podcast archive my books finding ultra voicing change and the plant power way if you'd like to support the podcast the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on apple podcasts on spotify and on youtube and leave a review and or comment and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful this show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free to check out all their amazing offers head to richroll dot com sponsors and finally for podcast updates special offers on books and other subjects please subscribe to our new newsletter which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll dot com today's show was produced and engineered by jason cameolo the video edition of the podcast was created by blake curtis and morgan mcrae with assistance from our creative director dan drake content management by shana savoy copywriting by ben prior and of course our theme music was created all the way back in twenty twelve by tyler pryor pyatt trapper pyatt and harry mathis appreciate the love love the support see you back here soon peace plants namaste.