The Rich Roll Podcast

Episode: Reclaim Your Excellence: The Path To A Meaningful & Joyous Life w/ Brad Stulberg

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Rich Roll
Guest: Brad Stulberg – Human performance coach, sustainable excellence expert, bestselling author

Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Rich Roll and Brad Stulberg embark on an insightful exploration of what it takes to create a meaningful and joyous life through the pursuit of genuine excellence. Drawing on Brad’s new book, “The Way of Excellence,” this conversation dives deep into the psychological, philosophical, and practical foundations of personal growth—pushing beyond hustle culture and societal expectations to reclaim a heartfelt, values-driven path.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting and Aligning Goals With Values

• Pitfall of All-or-Nothing Thinking: Many approach new goals with excessive motivation, big plans, and then fall into an “all or nothing” trap when life gets in the way. (01:10)
• Dan Kahneman’s Planning Fallacy: Reality deviates from our plans about 40% of the time—expect this, embrace failure, and focus on consistency instead of perfection.
• Values Alignment: Ensure goals align with who you want to become. If you’re out of sync, it’s okay to adjust or release the goal.

"The bigger the goal, the smaller those steps."
— Brad Stulberg (01:10)

[03:28] The Mountain Metaphor:

• A goal is the peak, but almost all the time is spent on the climb, not the summit.
• 3–5 core values (health, creativity, mastery, etc.)—clarify what they mean to you specifically, not just in abstract buzzwords.
• Example: Brad’s 600lb deadlift goal—supports mastery, community, curiosity, and is more about who he becomes than the number itself.

2. The Process Mindset & The Power of Small Steps

• Process Over Outcome: Break your goal into components, then focus daily on the next small step (06:23)
• Forget the Peak, Focus on the Climb: Don’t obsess over grand outcomes. Return to “winning more workouts than you lose.”
• Callie Humphries Example: Olympic bobsledder breaks a four-year cycle into two-year, then yearly, then daily wins. “Win more workouts than you lose.” (06:23)

"There's no such thing as an overnight breakthrough… we only see the person on the peak, not the climb."
— Brad Stulberg (06:23)

3. Navigating Core Dualities: Effort and Rest, Discipline and Compassion

• Non-Duality in Growth: Real excellence is holding opposites together—striving and surrender, discipline and self-compassion, intensity and joy (10:12).
• Culture's Polarization: Culture splits self-discipline and self-compassion into separate aisles (Navy SEALS vs. yoga teachers), but true sustainability requires both.
• 'Humble Badass' Concept: Elite performers are tough and self-disciplined but also humble and kind to themselves. Without this, excellence isn’t sustainable.

"You have to have that intensity, but you also have to do it for the joy of it."
— Rich Roll (08:55)

4. Curiosity as a Catalyst and Antidote to Fear

• The Curious Mindset: Kobe Bryant—“I play to learn things.”
• Curiosity as a tactic: Shifts brain from panic/rage pathways to problem solving.
• Brad’s “Brave New World” mantra—approaching challenges with curiosity diminishes fear. (18:38)

"Curiosity is sort of the skeleton key to so many things… it’s the unlock to the failure hangover."
— Rich Roll (17:53)

5. Identity, Balance, and Seasons of Excellence

• Build an ‘Identity House’: Avoid staking your entire sense of self on a single endeavor (triathlete, artist, parent). Having multiple 'rooms' provides resilience when setbacks occur. (21:10)
• Macro vs. Micro Balance: Periods of most satisfaction are those of least balance (total immersion), but zoom out and lives balance across seasons (27:01).
• Groundedness & Excellence: They’re not in conflict but complementary—“You’ve got to be grounded to soar.” (29:07)

"You just never want to let any important rooms get too moldy."
— Brad Stulberg (21:10)

6. Reclaiming Genuine Excellence – What It Is and Isn’t

• Definition: “Involved engagement in something worthwhile that aligns with your values and goals” (35:01)
• Pseudo-Excellence vs. Heartfelt Excellence: Push against 'hustle culture' and the ‘it’s all pointless’ crowd, promoting instead a middle path of authentic, communal striving.
• Excellence as Antidote to Alienation: Against societal disconnection and “AI slop,” excellence is a process of intimacy with a craft, self, and others.

"Every great invention came from someone who was pursuing heartfelt excellence."
— Brad Stulberg (35:01)

7. Rituals of Completion, Renewal, and the 48-Hour Rule

• The Importance of Marking Completion: Reflection and ritual around completion (however mundane the task) creates meaning, prevents becoming “Sisyphus with no smile.” (60:43)
• 48-Hour Rule: Celebrate or grieve any big outcome for a bounded window, then return to process. (104:06)

8. Practical Tactics and Advice for Sustained Excellence

• Quit, Fit, Then Grit: Try many things, be willing to quit, find ‘fit,’ then commit and grit for the long haul. (116:30)
• Identity and Burnout: Zombie burnout arises from pursuing goals without personal meaning; combat it by regularly checking if what you're doing matches your values. (98:30)
• Discipline Redefined: Less about bravado, more about “doing what you say you’ll do, with integrity,” including saying ‘no’ when necessary. (80:11)
• Micro-Choices & Environments: Most change is in tiny choices; set up environments to support good decisions, not just rely on willpower.
• Freedom—Negative vs. Positive: Positive freedom (to be your best self) often grows from self-imposed constraints. (81:52)
• Mood Follows Action: Don’t wait for motivation—acting (even in a small way) re-ignites the “pilot light.” (120:25)

"Mood follows action."
— Brad Stulberg (120:25)

9. Vulnerability, Joy, and the Value of Fun

• The Courage to Care: Earnestness is “cool” again—dare to try and risk heartbreak, because fulfillment comes only through caring.
• Allow for Grieving: Don’t rush past failure or disappointment; let yourself feel and then reflect. (57:45)
• Joy as a Core Driver: Without fun and joy, even the most intense effort will eventually collapse. Joy is what makes discipline and intensity sustainable—a la Courtney Dauwalter and Steph Curry. (89:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brad Stulberg on Dualities:
  “So much of truth… is non-binary and non-dual. The fun of striving for excellence… is experimenting with holding these seemingly opposing forces at the same time.” (10:12)

• Callie Humphries’ Lesson:
  "The path to a gold medal [is] winning more workouts than you lose day in and day out." (06:23)

• On Zombie Burnout:
  "Zombie burnout doesn’t necessarily come from working too hard. It comes from working toward the wrong goals." (98:30)

• On Excellence and Flow:
  "Flow is values-neutral… but excellence asks you to make sure what you're doing supports your values and goals." (50:53)

• On the Grift of Online Hustle Masculinity:
  “If anyone is telling you that the reason that you're alone and miserable is because you're so successful… run the other direction, that's the grift.” (93:46)

• Rich on Action:
  “Mood follows action. We're waiting to be struck with inspiration. But that is a byproduct of taking action first.” (120:58)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 00:02–03:28 | Goal setting, breaking down goals, values alignment | | 06:23 | Process mindset, Callie Humphries’ Olympic model | | 10:12 | Navigating dualities: discipline and compassion | | 14:18 | When hype stops working, healthy self-evaluation | | 17:53 | Curiosity as the key to growth | | 21:10 | Identity house metaphor and resilience strategies | | 27:01 | The myth of balance and life seasonality | | 35:01 | Defining genuine excellence | | 44:30 | Excellence as a communal, not solitary, pursuit | | 50:04 | Excellence vs. flow and “shitty flow” | | 57:21 | Embracing heartbreak and caring deeply | | 60:43 | Importance & challenges of completion rituals | | 66:30 | Grit vs. quit—when to persist or release a goal | | 80:11 | Redefining discipline and environmental design | | 89:47 | Joy, fun, and the example of Courtney Dauwalter | | 98:30 | Zombie burnout and meaning in work | | 104:06 | The 48-hour rule for emotional process | | 116:30 | Finding what to be excellent at: quit, fit, grit | | 120:25 | Mood follows action—reigniting the pilot light |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Excellence isn’t about hustle or external wins—it’s a meaningful, values-aligned process of becoming.
• Sustainable, joyous excellence lives in the tension between striving and release, discipline and compassion, effort and fun.
• Progress is built on daily, micro-actions with regular reflection, rituals of completion, and rest.
• Guard against societal “grifts”—find your own path of excellence, in community, grounded in self-awareness and joy.
• For those feeling numb or disconnected: start small, act first, and let curiosity and micro-victories rekindle your sense of purpose and satisfaction.

Further Exploration

• Book: The Way of Excellence — Brad Stulberg
• Mentioned Thinkers: Daniel Kahneman, Kobe Bryant, Callie Humphries, Steve Magnus, Robert Pirsig, Courtney Dauwalter, Steph Curry, Scott Galloway

"The goal isn't to be excellent. You're never gonna arrive. Excellence is a process of becoming."
— Brad Stulberg (122:03)

End of Summary