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The Rich Roll Podcast
Slow, Stop, & Reverse Aging: Peter Diamandis On Longevity Protocols, Lifestyle Medicine, & Optimizing Healthspan
02:01:09
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- [00:01]
Rich Roll
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- [02:35]
Peter Diamandis
Our ancestors would consider us as gods. There's a lot coming we're beginning to understand fundamentally why do we age? What is going on? The man or woman who has their health has a thousand dreams, and the man or woman who does not has but one.
- [02:50]
Rich Roll
Peter Diamandis is an antidote to the doomsday thinking that permeates our culture. This is a guy who has devoted his life to proving that our future isn't just salvageable, it's potentially extraordinary. Peter is the founder of xprize and Singularity University and kind of a visionary who for decades has been ambitiously architecting solutions to some of humanity's most intractable challenges. Leveraging optimism to transform imagination into reality.
- [03:21]
Peter Diamandis
I want people to have that longevity mindset. Exercise is the number one pro longevity thing you can do for yourself, especially if you're in your late 50s or into your over 60s. You just have to decide whether you want to take control of your own situation or not.
- [03:37]
Rich Roll
His latest moonshot, Extending human Lifespan. It's a hot topic, but how much agency do we actually have when it comes to aging and when it comes to extending longevity, what are the factors and habits that actually matter the most? And to what extent is it rational to believe that AI and other technological breakthroughs are actually going to advance our potential to thrive for years beyond what we might currently believe possible? Well, these are but a few of the questions we tackle in today's conversation that attempts to parse actionable guidance from snake oil fantasy and basically begins and ends with the importance of mindset.
- [04:18]
Peter Diamandis
Mindset is the first step. If I don't believe I can, then you won't. This is a very different time than the last 20, 30, 50 years. Most people can figure out what to do with 10 or 20 years and I say what about 50 years and their minds break.
- [04:36]
Rich Roll
Peter, great to see you. Thanks for coming by today, man.
- [04:39]
Peter Diamandis
Thanks for having me back when we.
- [04:41]
Rich Roll
First sat down, when was that? Like two years ago, a year and a half ago or something like that. The focus was really on the book that you co wrote with Tony Robbins, Lifeforce. We talked about the evolution of medical science from treating disease to this new era of thinking about preventing disease and then now promoting well being and healthspan extension revolution. That is the focus of the book and very much top of mind for you as an expert in that field. A lot has happened since then, so I'm interested in what has transpired because everything is moving so quickly. Where is your head in terms of the evolution that we've seen even in the last year or two?
- [05:25]
Peter Diamandis
Sure. And my hope is for anybody watching this episode that they take away immediately useful things.
- [05:32]
Rich Roll
Yeah, we're gonna be focused on that. And that's what this new book is really all about. It's kind of like a how to practical incorporate into your life version of Lifeforce, which was a very thick book.
- [05:44]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. I mean lifeforce was 700 pages. And I'm like, I don't know how anyone has the time to read a 700 page book and get through it. I said, there's so much information. And I wanted to really boil it down to what you can do right now, what each thing can benefit you. And one of the things most importantly is what I call getting a longevity mindset. Getting mindset is one of the most important things. We'll talk about mindset impacting your physiology, your health. But a longevity mindset is the idea that you're clear, there are so many breakthroughs arriving right now and over the decade ahead that could truly extend your health span and lifespan, that you're gonna do all that you can do today to be in the best health, to intercept these technologies. Right. That they're worth putting the investment of time, energy, foregoing that donut, getting up and doing the exercise, going to bed early enough. And I hope then I'll prove this to you and those watching because I think it's the greatest gift we can ever give everybody. Health is the new wealth. And this is a very different decade, the decade now 2025 to 2035, than we've ever had. It's a decade powered by AI, which is the biggest transformer of this field. It's powered by crispr, by gene therapies, by single cell sequencing, by all these technologies that are helping us understand why people age, how to slow it, stop it, perhaps reverse it.
- [07:22]
Rich Roll
So there's the low hanging fruit of like diet, exercise, sleep. You go into detail in the book about that. Then the diagnostic tools that are becoming increasingly available for early detection, which is so huge in terms of staving off disease before it really gets out of the gate. And then there are all of these sort of medical interventions and supplements and that kind of leads you into some of these moonshots and where we're kind of headed with all of this. But fundamentally, I'm glad you brought up mindset because none of this matters if you can't get your head around your relationship with yourself. Right. Like that you have agency over this process, that you are not on a course that's predetermined by your genetics and that you have a level of optimism and self efficacy to exert some effort towards how you're thinking about how you're entering into these later decades. And I think short of that, if you don't have that, you're just reacting to your, your environment on this kind of predetermined course.
- [08:25]
Peter Diamandis
Absolutely. So I mean, people should realize most folks think that their lifespan. So let me define. Lifespan is how long your heart's ticking, right? How long you're alive, whether you can think or do anything at all. Healthspan is how long are you in great health where you have the vitality to live and enjoy your life, where you're enjoying your grandkids, you're enjoying what you're doing and you have that vitality. So that's healthspan. And in the United States today, There's about a 17 year gap between lifespan and healthspan. So lifespan on Average is like 79 today. Healthspan on average is 63. So you hit I'm 63 today. Right. And I feel like I'm in the best health I've ever been. You'll be there soon, soon, soon enough. Not yet, but soon enough. And so the notion that it's a slow decline, we'll talk about why that occurs. But saying I refuse to let this decline happen, I'm going to take agency and do what I can. And a lot of people think, well, my mom and dad passed at 70 or 75 and so that's my future. Well, it turns out that your genetics are not your longevity, vitality, future in the hole. There was a study done that showed that your true longevity is only about 7% in your genes. At the high end, it's potentially 30% of your genetics, which means at the worst case, 70% of your ability to have a long and healthy life is within your control. And so if you know that first and foremost you're willing to do what it takes to give yourself access and to do the right things from a lifestyle perspective. But you're right, mindset is the first step. If I don't believe I can, then you won't.
- [10:28]
Rich Roll
Well, fundamentally, either you believe that your behavior and your habits are either moving you towards health or away from health or you don't. So first of all you have to flick that switch and say, what I eat, how I move, the people I interact with, the environments that I choose to inhabit do impact my well being and the trajectory of how long I'm going to be able to sustain healthspan or you don't. Right. And if you do, then it's like, okay, well the onus is on you. If you have agency, what are you doing to direct that?
- [11:01]
Peter Diamandis
Even the way you perceive the world as an impact. There's a study, I just want to quote, I marked it here and I love this. It says in a study of 69,744 women and 1429 men published in the prestigious journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Like highest level work, right. It was found that optimistic people live as much as 15% longer than pessimists. And it's a good double benefit for being an optimist.
- [11:33]
Rich Roll
Is that a mutable quality, though?
- [11:35]
Peter Diamandis
I think it is.
- [11:36]
Rich Roll
You do?
- [11:36]
Peter Diamandis
There's a lot of people who are dour in their lives and getting to flip over to an optimist. I think it is mutable. So our brains are neural nets, right? We have 100 billion neurons, 100 trillion synaptic connections, and we shape our brain, as you very well know, by what's on our walls, the podcasts we listen to. Here we are, your listeners listening to this. The TV shows you watch, who you hang out with, what you read, all these things are constantly shaping your neural net. Just like feeding data to Gemini or ChatGPT feeds, it shapes its neural net. And the problem is that we're living in a world where most people are bombarded by the news media. And the news media, you couldn't pay me enough money to watch the evening news or read the morning paper. They have an agenda, and their agenda isn't to give you dystopian or optimistic news. It's to deliver your eyeballs to their advertisers. That's their business. And at the end of the day, we pay 10 times more attention to negative news than positive news. It's evolutionarily beneficial. On the Savannahs of Africa 100,000 years ago, a rustle in the leaves. If you thought wind and it was a lion, you were screwed. Your genes are out of the gene pool. And so we developed a cognitive bias for negative news. And we paid 10 times more attention to negative than positive news. And so for that reason, tomorrow morning, open the newspaper, count the number of negative stories to positive stories. It's at least 10 to 1. And is that the way the world truly is, or is that just the way it's being presented to you?
- [13:21]
Rich Roll
On some level, every behavior change is a function of willingness. And somebody who, like, if you're, like, addicted to drugs, you have to have a willingness to explore sobriety. If you're a fundamentally pessimistic person, you have to have some willingness to try to shift that.
- [13:39]
Peter Diamandis
Right? There has to be a why.
- [13:40]
Rich Roll
Yeah. So it's very hard to compel somebody who doesn't have a positive mindset to adopt a positive mindset short of their willingness on Their own. It's an internally generated energy that's required. But anybody who's listening to this podcast probably already has a relationship at some level with a growth mindset.
- [14:02]
Peter Diamandis
I would imagine your viewers do.
- [14:04]
Rich Roll
I mean, you're like the poster child for a growth mindset with all the things that you've manifested and all the different interests that you've explored. You're a very curious person. But I think like any habit change or behavior change, it's about these tiny little things. Like yes, maybe just don't watch the news or pay more attention to your information diet. Like you can begin there.
- [14:26]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, agreed. I mean, I pay as much attention to what I let into my mind as what I eat and let into my body. Those are two things that very much shape you part. It's having a why, like why do you want to live an extra 20 or 30 years? I run an experiment with my abundance members where I'll say, okay, what would you do with an extra 10 years of life of health? Then I'll ask, okay, how about 20 years? Most people can figure out what to do with 10 or 20 years and I say, what about 50 years? And their minds break. It's very challenging for us. But when you can connect to something like I grew up sort of weaning on Star Trek and Apollo program and I just, I want to see humanity become a multi planetary species. I want to be part of that endeavor. I want to meet my great grandkids. I think this is the most exciting time ever to be alive and I want to see as much of it as I can and that inspires me. There's a concept I talk about in the book which I think is another part of the inspiration. It's called longevity escape velocity. And we might have talked about it last time, but it's worth recounting. So today, for every year that you're alive, science is extending your life for a quarter of a year or thereabouts. Ray Kurzweil, Aubrey de Grey talked about this idea that in the future, for every year that you're alive, science is going to extend your life for more than a year. And that's called longevity escape velocity. So when will that happen? Well, Ray Kurzweil believes it will be by 2030 or by the end of the year 2030. He's got an 86% accuracy rate in his predictions. Pretty damn good.
- [16:19]
Rich Roll
That's a pretty bold proclamation. We did talk about that last time. We also kind of discussed the philosophical implications of what that would mean. You know, what does it mean when suddenly everybody has a different relationship with death? How does that impact your relationship with risk, your risk tolerance, what kind of decisions you make? What's gonna happen with all these children that are now, you know, like, there's population issues, there's employment, there's all kinds of very interesting thought experiments that play into that, you know, 2030. That's coming up pretty quick. You're an optimist. And this is where we get into, like, you're the moonshot guy. And it's fun to play around with that.
- [16:56]
Peter Diamandis
Okay. But let's say it's 2040.
- [16:58]
Rich Roll
That's the way into the mindset shift, basically, whether you believe that's going to happen or not. It's like a window into, like, thinking differently about your own life and what might be possible. Whether or not that happens or not almost doesn't matter. It's like your relationship with your own kind of, you know, life and what it means and how you're finding purpose and what gets you excited and out of bed in the morning.
- [17:21]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. And it may be that it's not extending your life past 100, but what if it's giving you vital health till your 90s? So you are. You've got the aesthetics, the cognition, the mobility to really live a full life with these additional decades. George Church and David Sinclair, both Harvard professors in this field, their prediction is mid to late2030s. Even if it's 2040. The point I'm making is, okay, that's. Call it 15 years from now. Your job is not to die for something stupid in the interim and to give yourself the maximum chance to intercept these breakthroughs coming. You don't want to be the last person to miss it, so to speak.
- [18:07]
Rich Roll
Sometimes I feel like, yeah, I'm right on the edge of that. Like my kids. It will be very different. Right. I'm kind of hoping to kind of just slide in.
- [18:20]
Peter Diamandis
I'm working hard for you, buddy.
- [18:21]
Rich Roll
Clock's ticking out.
- [18:22]
Peter Diamandis
Working hard for you.
- [18:23]
Rich Roll
What is the original inspiration or spark that got you interested in this field to begin with? I'm not sure I asked you that last time.
- [18:30]
Peter Diamandis
There's a couple things. When I was in medical school, I watched a television show on long lived sea life. And I learned that the bowhead whale could live 200 years and the Greenland shark could live 500 years and have babies at 200 years old. And I'm like thinking, if they can live that long, why can't I? My answer, which I still believe is it's either an engineering problem or a software problem. And we're going to have the technology to change that, to solve that. And I think this next decade is that time AI is going to have the biggest impact. Right.
- [19:03]
Rich Roll
Well, it's certainly an extraordinary moment that we're in right now. It is the most transition forward experience in the history of humanity. The rate at which advances are being made is dizzying. It's difficult to even get our heads around it.
- [19:18]
Peter Diamandis
We've become numb to it. We've become totally numb to it. I have a slide and a chapter on my next books called Our Ancestors Would Consider us as Gods. We have godlike capability with a small G. Right? We're omniscient, we're omnipotent, we're omnipresent. I can zoom anyplace, facetime, any place. I can know anything. I mean, it's incredible what we take for granted. We don't think about these things when we're using them in the moment. We're frustrated because my Tesla Autopilot won't let me text currently while I'm driving. It's like, damn it, I've got something that's awesome.
- [19:58]
Rich Roll
At the same time, lifespan is declining. We're pretty unhealthy across the modern developed world. Increasingly more and more unhealthy due to environmental reasons. Our food environments, et cetera, Our food.
- [20:12]
Peter Diamandis
Companies and pharma companies are killing us.
- [20:14]
Rich Roll
We may be godlike in certain qualities, but are we healthier? Are we happier? It's an interesting tension or conundrum because there are all of these advances and all these possibilities at the same time. We're dealing with a population that is, that's experiencing, you know, chronic lifestyle ailments, you know, at epidemic levels right now. So it's weird, right? It's weird that we know more than we ever have. We've got tools to advance health in ways we never previously had and yet we're so unhealthy.
- [20:45]
Peter Diamandis
And you know, I just, I'm develop. I'm writing a book for Simon and Sister with Steven Kotler called Age of Abundance, which will come out in 2026. And it's a continuation of my 2012 book and the argument for increasing abundance in the world. Access to food, water, energy, healthcare, education, all these things is just up and to the right. But we also have an abundance of microplastics and abundance of depression, an abundance of obesity and empty calories and all of these elements which we need to address. And those are very real. Our food system is immoral and I Hope the new administration will transform that. It's the first time I have any hope of that. But today's children's cereals should have black box warnings on them. The amount of sugars in there, it's killing us. Yeah.
- [21:39]
Rich Roll
Even since we last spoke, there's been an increase in receptivity and awareness around these ideas. There's people on social media who are really pushing the outer boundaries of what's possible, sharing their stories about this. At the same time that always comes with pushback, there's increasing kind of dismissiveness or resistance to these ideas. How are you seeing the world at large in terms of how receptive they are to what you have to share around this idea?
- [22:11]
Peter Diamandis
I'm sure I'm in my own echo chamber, to be clear, as many of us are. But so far, I think post Covid, people care a lot more about their health than they ever had. And I'm getting a very positive response to the notion that you can become the CEO of your own health and that there are things that you could and should do right now. And, you know, listen, a lot of some things are expensive, but a lot of them are free. Right. And I think that people just need to know and then have the motivations to implement them. They have to care about, they have to feel agency. They have to understand the power this has for them, the benefits it has for them, and that they can move the needle. If you don't believe that, you're not going to do it.
- [23:07]
Rich Roll
Yeah. I mean, you're the moonshot guy. It's fun to talk about. Like, what is it going to look like in 30 years, 50 years? Let's focus on what's exciting now. These kind of emerging protocols with things like NAD and rapamycin, and you're deep into all that stuff. It can speak fluently about what we should know and understand about these things. But fundamentally, as you lay out pretty bluntly in the book, most of these things don't cost money. It's like diet, exercise, sleep, sleep, mindset. Mindset. These are things we all have to deal with.
- [23:47]
Peter Diamandis
And we've known about this for centuries.
- [23:50]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Peter Diamandis
There's ancient Greek writings about the importance of these things, and still people haven't done it. There is something coming to support them there besides my longevity guidebook. And it's going to be the power of AI. AI to be your coach, your supporter, to help you remember what you set out you want to do. AI Systems. We're not far from Jarvis, from Ironman, where your AI is. There Saying, don't eat that first. Have a glass of water. Or there's stairs right in the corner. Take those instead of the elevator. Or you're at 9,000 steps. Take a quick walk before dinner, get to 10,000.
- [24:40]
Rich Roll
This thing is so annoying me.
- [24:44]
Peter Diamandis
You're going to have the option to turn it on or turn it off, but you have to have the motivation. So that's one part. I mean, Arianna Huffington has a program called Thrive Global which is used inside of companies. These are micro steps. It's remembering. I mean, there's little things like taking a deep breath just before eating to put yourself into parasympathetic. There's like the order in which you eat your food matters. If you eat your veggies first, which is your fiber, it will slow down your digestive tract, allow you to absorb the nutrients and then eat your protein. And then if you have room still last, eat your carbs.
- [25:29]
Rich Roll
But every restaurant brings the bread and.
- [25:31]
Peter Diamandis
Biscuit, bread and wine. Right. And there's a reason they do that. I mean, we're all being manipul. The bread and the wine spikes your blood glucose and then spikes your insulin. And then you get hungry and you order more food. You just have to decide whether you want to take control of your own situation or not.
- [25:50]
Rich Roll
On the diet piece, we don't need to belabor it. I mean, you make it pretty simple. It's basically sugar is a poison. Yeah, no sugar. Whole foods close to their natural state, mostly plants. You know, you have a whole section on protein and your thoughts on protein, particularly as we age and why it becomes more important in terms of maintaining and building muscle mass, which becomes increasingly more difficult the older we get. You look pretty good. You look super fit. I know you work out every single day.
- [26:20]
Peter Diamandis
Well, at least, at least five days a week. It's working for you.
- [26:23]
Rich Roll
But yeah, how is your ability to recover? Like, what have you learned from your fitness regimen that works and doesn't work? Do you need to take a little bit more time in between the more intense workouts?
- [26:36]
Peter Diamandis
No, I know what works for me right now, which is I'll do a 35, 40 minute workout, the same workout every day. I don't follow the experts of doing upper body and lower body and so forth. When I have time, I execute on my workout. And I've gone from a state of last year focusing on building 10 pounds of muscle mass to this year really maintaining that muscle mass, which, by the way, has so many different benefits, including helping to minimize your injury. Because as we get Older injury is our greatest threat. And so muscle mass helps you to maintain balance and on a fall, maintain your skeletal system in place. But I do think that exercise is the number one pro longevity thing you can do for yourself, especially if you're in your late 50s or into your over 60s. And it's a matter of having the motivation to do it, you know, So I try and prioritize it really first thing in the morning when I've got most control of my schedule and where I have the most willpower. You know, your willpower erodes as you go through the night, which is why, you know, getting your cheesecake at midnight snack is the opposite thing you're supposed to do.
- [28:00]
Rich Roll
So it's some combination of strength training, high intensity training, and zone too.
- [28:05]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. So it's strength, muscle mass, and then the other thing is stimulating your mitochondria. Right. So one of the things, I'm on too many boards and when I'm sitting on my butt in a board meeting is like the worst thing. I think of sitting as the new smoking. And so I've got a technogym bike where I will basically hop on the bike and maintain my heart rate at about 110 beats per minute. And it's my zone two training and it's meant to stimulate my mitochondria. And then a few times a week I'll do high intensity interval training where it's like 60 seconds of as fast as I can go, get my heart rate up to 145 beats per minute, 60 seconds of just nothing, and then cycle through that. And again, all of this is about signaling your mitochondria that they're loved, they're needed, please replicate.
- [29:02]
Rich Roll
And it will continue to kind of love you back in kind as long as you keep doing it.
- [29:08]
Peter Diamandis
It will. And there's incredible work being done in the lab right now to stimulate all of these things. You know, I think one thing I write about in the book that's very. That's an important frame for me is that we're all born with 3.2 billion letters from your mom and from your dad. And that's your software you're running. And you've got the same software when you're born, when you're 20, when you're 50, when you're 100. Why do you look different? And it turns out it's not the genes you have, it's your epigenome. Epi, from the Greek word for above. And it's which genes are on and which genes are off. And as we age, the right genes turn off, they get silenced, the wrong genes get turned on, and we have this genetic drift. And so the question is, when we talk about reversing aging, it's can you bring back your epigenome so the, the right genes stay on and turned on? And there's so many drugs and cellular medicines in development right now to help you do that. And that's exciting of what's coming when we're ready to talk about that. There's one in particular that I find fascinating.
- [30:28]
Rich Roll
Yeah, let's put a pin on that for now. Just kind of staying with the top level stuff that is accessible to everyone. I love the fact that you drew conscious attention to oral health. I think that this is really overlooked and not discussed enough in the context of how important it is. I mean, you just think, oh, well, of course you don't want diseased gums or, you know, infections and bad breath and the like, you want your teeth to be white, et cetera. But the connection between oral health and cardiovascular disease and neurocognitive disease. Neurocognitive disease is like very real.
- [31:03]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. So your mouth is very close to your brain and there are a lot of blood vessels, you know, very blood vessel rich. And you have constantly organisms that are moving into your bloodstream from your mouth. And if you've got gum disease, gingivitis and such, that protective layer erodes and you're at increased risk for cardiovascular and neurocognitive disease. And I have really tripled down on it. And I have a section in the book that talks about oral health, but also in my routines and I have increased that because as you get older, you're more vulnerable there. So I won't go into all of the elements here and people can read about it, but. But it's not just brushing your teeth twice a day, which is a minimum. Right. And if you're a smoker, obviously don't smoke. That really causes havoc in your dental and oral situation.
- [32:10]
Rich Roll
Yeah. The link with heart disease is something that I learned. Like when I was a teenager I had all these periodontal problems and I had to have like curettage. And like, I used to have massive infections in my mouth all the time. And those infections like get into your system and lead directly towards like arterial damage around the heart. Yeah. What's cool is that you do in the book, you like, not only do you have, like, here's what the science says about all these various things. You're like, here's what I do and you go through your whole day and here's my protocol and exactly what I do.
- [32:43]
Peter Diamandis
This book started as a request from friends to tell me what, Just tell.
- [32:48]
Rich Roll
Me what to do. I don't read 700 fantasy.
- [32:51]
Peter Diamandis
Well, that was the difference. Life Force was a big book with beautiful stories and Tony's amazing. And he and I worked on it for like 18 months and interviewed so many people. But at the end of the day, people like just what do you do? Like what do you take? What pills do you take? What's your routines? And it grew from a 10 page document, word document to like 50 pages to 100 pages. Like screw it, I'm just going to turn this into a book.
- [33:25]
Rich Roll
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- [36:45]
Peter Diamandis
So I've known Brian for a decade. I was one of the very first phone calls he made when he sold Braintree, his company. And he became an investor in one of my companies called Human Longevity Inc. And he became an investor, joined the board, became very involved there. Both he and I got disillusioned with the direction HLI was going. I won't go into the details, but broke off and then he ended up going into the brain computer interface space. And it was fascinating to see him get back into the longevity space. So I think a lot of the stuff he's doing is fascinating experimentation on himself. And the fact that he's so open to sharing the details is awesome. I honestly don't want to hear about his erections. I think he's just gone overboard in a number of the areas, which is we live in a clickbait society and he's generating a lot of clickbait.
- [37:51]
Rich Roll
Yeah. I mean, he knows how to get attention. He knows how to get people engaged. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. He's drawn a lot of attention to himself and there's a lot of interesting curiosity around him as a figure. Cause he's a very kind of unique expression of humanity.
- [38:07]
Peter Diamandis
He's an extremist. Yeah.
- [38:08]
Rich Roll
And I'm kind of glad he's out doing all that kind of stuff. And the transparency with which he shares it, I mean, he knows how to kind of make the video that's gonna get everyone to click on it. And he's sort of like an explorer in this world. And most of this stuff maybe isn't gonna work, but at least somebody's out there trying it and reporting back. I guess I went to one of his kind of Jeffersonian dinners where the question is posed, like you mentioned, the AI that's going to kind of help you make the right decisions. And the question that provides the structure for the discussion is basically like, if there's a super intelligence, would you basically relinquish your agency over to it if it was going to always help you make the decision that's going to drive the optimal health outcome? With the caveat that you can't opt out, you have to do what it says, and you can't cancel or membership or whatever. Which is a provocative question because we want to think that we know what makes me human is my agency. And our instinct that we do make good decisions on our own behalf, which we don't. Yeah. Is confronting, because we actually don't. And so it sort of provokes an interesting conversation.
- [39:19]
Peter Diamandis
Listen, I think anything that helps society as a whole begin to envision an increasing control over their health, over their longevity, is a good thing. I do that work through my books, my podcasts, my fountain life. I just don't talk about my erections.
- [39:42]
Rich Roll
Yeah, you have to have some zone of privacy, Peter. I respect you for that. I want to talk about diagnostics because I think this. And I know we talked about this a little bit last time, but to me, this seems like the most kind of powerful set of tools that are. I mean, they're expensive, but, like, if you're thinking about, like, I don't want to just, you know, treat a disease when I get it, I want to prevent it. Like early detection. With the advances that we're seeing in these diagnostic tools that can literally identify diseases, you know, in their very early stages, when they actually can be treated, I think is really the future of where, you know, healthcare should be going. Is it going in that direction? You have found life and you have this clinic. But, like, what is the adoption kind of mentality around this?
- [40:29]
Peter Diamandis
So the basic question is, when is the best time to find disease? Right. It's at inception, at stage zero. And I'm in a room of a thousand people giving a keynote on longevity or AI, And I'll ask how many of you here are absolutely sure there's nothing going on inside your body you need to know about? And no one raises their hand. Right. Because when you stop and you Think about it. You honestly have no idea what's going on inside your body. But you can know. And you. I don't want to say should know. You need to know. So here's some numbers. 70% of individuals who die from a cancer die from a cancer that is never tested routine, that we don't routinely test for. They die from a glioblastoma or pancreatic cancer. They don't die from breast or colon or prostate. Right. Because we test for that. Well, that's great. But guess what? You die from the other ones. When you have a cancer, God forbid, you don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four. You don't feel anything at the very beginning. And you go into the hospital with a pain in your side, and the doctor says, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you've got so and so. I just found out this week that a dear friend of mine, one of my closest high school friends, has metastatic pancreatic cancer with like a week left to live. And I was in tears yesterday hearing about this. And it's like, we don't know what's going on in our bodies, but you can. You know, 70% of people have a heart attack, don't have any precedent, no shortness of breath even. Nothing a calcium score means is meaningless because it's the soft plaque that can kill you, that can evulse, erupt in the middle of the night, block coronary artery, deprive the muscle tissue of your heart from oxygen and glucose, and then that tissue's dead. So the realization is, you know, I'm a pilot, I fly a couple planes, and before I get into the airplane, I check all the systems, I look at all the gauges, making sure everything's working well. But we know more about our cars and our refrigerators than we do inside of our bodies. But you can know. And if you can know, I think you want to know, people will go, oh, no, no, I don't want to know.
- [43:00]
Rich Roll
That's the thing. There is a fear around it. Like, if I go do that, I'm going to find something out. I feel okay. Like, you know, no, thank you.
- [43:08]
Peter Diamandis
And the reality is you're going to find out eventually. You want to find out when you can do something about it or when it's too late. You know, the person who walks into the hospital with the pain and the doctor says, I'm sorry to tell you, you have this, this and this. They didn't get it that morning. It's been going on for Some time. So Tony Robbins, Bill, Cap, Bob, Hurry. And I started an organization, a company called Fountain Life and Fountain is. We have four centers today. We'll be adding in New York, our headquarters in Orlando, Naples, Florida, Dallas, we'll be adding four more LA next year, which I'm excited about. At the Fairmont Hotel, the Ritz Carlton in ours, in Phoenix, in Houston, and then there's one more location probably in England, and then we've got a Runway of 25 more. And it's a membership model where people come. And it's not just a upload. We basically extract 200 gigabytes of data. About you. It's a full body MRI, a brain vasculature MRI, a coronary CT of your lung with an AI overlay. I'm sorry. Of your heart, looking for soft plaque, low dose lung ct, DEXA scan, iris scan, skin scan, metabolomics, blood chemistries, your microbiome, your full genome. It's everything. No, about you. To answer two questions. Is there anything going on inside you right now that you need to know about? And I'll tell you what the, what the data is right now. And then the second is what's likely to happen to you and how do we optimize you and prevent it. Of our first 5,6000 members, 2% of them have a cancer they don't know about. 2.5% have an aneurysm they don't know about. And 14.4% have either metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease. It's like we're all optimists about our health.
- [45:18]
Rich Roll
So when that person comes in, you do this battery of tests, you have all of this data. Let's say you fall into that category of, you know, maybe you don't have any identifiable cancer, but hey, listen, there's some, there's some heart disease on the horizon here. We see these plaques, et cetera. How do you then develop a protocol to move them away from that?
- [45:42]
Peter Diamandis
So that's really important. One of the things you don't want to do is get a data dump and then just say goodbye. Right? I mean, there are companies out there that will do an MRI scan for you. They'll give you a printout and you're on your own. So what we did with Fountain Life is we created a wraparound medical care, concierge care around that. So besides the upload, which takes about four and a half, five hours, you get a functional medicine, longevity physician.
- [46:19]
Rich Roll
Right.
- [46:20]
Peter Diamandis
And functional medicine is really important for me. It's the highest level it's the root cause training that physicians get. It's very rare, it's going to be increasing. It's understanding at a molecular level. Why is there a disease? You don't look at the organ, what's going on on a cellular level that's causing that situation. So you get a functional medicine doctor, you get a nurse, you get a dietitian and a health coach that are with you for the entire year. And the goal is, here's our. I mean, I just, I got texted by Mona, my fountain life doctor this morning. How are you feeling? What's going on? Are you feeling excellent? I said, well, I got this and this. And you say, okay, I'm on it. Right, so you've got a support team and then you're testing through the years. So I take 75, 80 supplements right now. Medicines, I mean, which is a ridiculous number. Ridiculous number. I know, I know. And in the book I talk about what I take and exactly why. And I didn't start with 80. I got up there, my mom keeps on saying, peter, how do you know these things don't like interfere with each other? And I say, mom, I don't actually, but we will know. But I measure my blood's biomarkers and everything, at least a quarterly basis and I modify everything like, okay, I want to increase this, decrease this. And I do publish that data. And I'm learning, I'm learning about my body. Eventually an AI will be doing this for me autonomously and just constantly optimizing. And I think that's within the next three years that's coming.
- [48:06]
Rich Roll
It's a curious thing though, this focus on self optimization. I have concerns around the obsessiveness with which a lot of people kind of interact with these ideas in a way that, that they're kind of missing life. It's a way to distract you from living your life if you're so focused on like metrics all the time. And there's something that's at cross purposes with true healthspan, which is kind of making your life about something bigger than yourself and investing in other people and all of that. And all of this inward gaze I think, sometimes, I think moves people away from other aspects of life that are important in order to kind of, you know, enjoy the fullness of this experience.
- [48:52]
Peter Diamandis
I get it, I get it. But the reality is my number one pro longevity activity is my two 13 year old boys, right? Just love spending time with them and they keep me young. I had kids when I was 50 and the work that I do is very fulfilling for me with the Xprize foundation and Singularity and Abundance360 in the books that I write. And I have a very rich community. But I'm exploring and I'm building businesses in this area and it's going to become something eventually if it's three years, five years, where the systems are in place, where this happens in the background mode. So I'm wearing an Oura ring, an Apple watch, I've got a Dexcom, and this is going to my phone right now. I have on my phone my Fountain life AI where all of my data from all of my scans and all my blood tests are constantly downloaded. And I can talk to my AI and ask it, like, what happened recently? And so forth. Eventually your AI is going to become your health partner to help you achieve your goals, Set your goals and I'm going to tell you what to take. You know, listen, lean on, you know, lay off the red meat this week if you want, if you want. I mean, people have to make a decision. Are they happy with the 80 years they've got? Would they like 100 years? It's up to everybody individually, what do.
- [50:36]
Rich Roll
Your boys, your twins think about all this? Are they into it?
- [50:40]
Peter Diamandis
I mean, listen, 13 year old boys are going to make fun of their daddy.
- [50:43]
Rich Roll
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:44]
Peter Diamandis
You know, so I tell them, I mean, we will always be 50 years apart. I said, when you're 50 and you've got kids, I want to be there to enjoy you. When you're 100, well, we'll see if I'm still around.
- [51:00]
Rich Roll
Like, how does the traditional mainstream medical establishment respond to you and what you're doing and what you're doing at Fountain? Do you see movement? Is it changing? Is it evolving into a more kind of functional embrace of all of these ideas? Or is it still entrenched and stuck in its ways?
- [51:22]
Peter Diamandis
Listen, there are those on the edge of the system that are peering over, super curious and seeing, wow, I'd like to learn more. There are those who say, and we see this all the time with our members. My doc told me not to do this because you'll find something. And it's like, okay, that's kind of strange. I mean, we've saved hundreds and hundreds of lives and I'm very proud of what our teams have done. What's strange is that it used to be that the resolution of a lot of these tests were not very high. And you would discover through an MRI or CT what was called an incidental omi. Like something that, like a relic, a.
- [52:12]
Rich Roll
Shadow of something that you know.
- [52:13]
Peter Diamandis
And it's like, oh, you're going to find it, you're going to go pursue it. Guess what? You know, what we're doing now at Fountain is what I call multimodal diagnostics. It's not just the image, it's the image. Plus your blood chemistries, plus your genetics, plus your. We do a grail gallery test, which is a blood test, looking for free floating DNA from potential cancer cells. And you get signal information from multiple different places. And it's the integration of all of that that gives you a high likelihood that something is going on that we need to dig into deeper. It's not the way it was 20 years ago. There's a lot of progress that's been made.
- [52:54]
Rich Roll
Yeah, I mean, this idea that you don't do a test unless there's something wrong. Right. It's sort of like don't take so many pictures with your camera because there's only 24 frames on a roll. Like we're not in that world anymore. You know what I mean? It goes back to mindset. What is your mindset around this? Why is your reflex like, don't test unless there's something wrong.
- [53:16]
Peter Diamandis
Unless there's something wrong. It may be too late, but I.
- [53:19]
Rich Roll
Think it's a mindset that's a reflection of a paradigm that's slowly eroding as we kind of enter this new paradigm. And I would suspect that at least among the younger generation of doctors, they're the ones who are peering over the fence and interested in these things. You don't go into medicine unless you want to promote health and you're interested in the well being of the patients you're going to be treating, but they're stuck in a business model that prevents them from being able to do that. And I think what is happening is people like yourself are creating viable business models out there that show a different way of practicing medicine where you don't have to restrict yourself to that 15 minute period and get your perception pad out.
- [54:03]
Peter Diamandis
Seven minutes these days. Yeah, it's like I got seven minutes to see this patient and move them through. So it's awful. And then on top of that, you've got the fact that it's not a healthcare system, it's a sick care system. It's waiting for things to break before you address them.
- [54:22]
Rich Roll
The problem is getting buy in from the insurance companies. I mean, that's what really is gonna shift it. And that is only gonna be accomplished when you can convince these conglomerates that they're going to save money by covering the procedures that are going on in your clinic. I had. Do you know Robin Bur. Dr. Robin, she has a series of clinics called Parsley Health and she has gotten it's functional medicine. She's in New York, but there's clinics and a lot of it's virtual online. But she's getting real buy in from the big players in insurance. And I think that's the real kind of like paradigm shifter here.
- [55:00]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. I mean this has been private pay.
- [55:02]
Rich Roll
Yeah. It's expensive.
- [55:03]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. The Fountain apex membership is 19,500 bucks. It's expensive. Right.
- [55:08]
Rich Roll
A year.
- [55:09]
Peter Diamandis
Right.
- [55:09]
Rich Roll
Most people. Per year.
- [55:10]
Peter Diamandis
Per year.
- [55:11]
Rich Roll
And to be a member of this thing.
- [55:12]
Peter Diamandis
Thing.
- [55:12]
Rich Roll
It's like out of reach for.
- [55:13]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. For the majority of all people. I fully know that. You know, it's not just the testing. Right. The most expensive part is the wraparound medical care. It's the humans in the loop. And we're going to demonetize that. We're going to get, you know, the new imaging systems are becoming cheaper where AI radiologists are actually going to become, are probably and will maintain being better than human radiologists. And then the human in the loop will be partially in the loop, but AI will be that. So we're going to see a cost reduction over time. We've just announced something called a core membership, which is $6,500, trying to make it more affordable. And it's for companies to provide to their employees. So listen, I teach this. Most people may know me as a technologist, as a sort of an AI tech entrepreneur. And I teach the idea of the six Ds of exponentials, that when you can digitize something, you dematerialize, demonetize and democratize those things. Right. So the cell phone, the original camera, digital camera was from Kodak. When you digitized it, it dematerialized the phone into your handset here and demonetized and democratized access. But in the beginning, it's deceptively slow change. Right. It took like 20 years for the digital camera to go from something in the lab to something that was, you know, disrupting Kodak. And then it becomes disruptive. And so we're going to see that level of change. We're going to see AIs in your home and sensors on your body. In fact, we have at Fountain, we have a program called Fountain at Home, which is how do we move all of this into your home? So into your bed, your chair, your urinal. So you're constantly uploading data to your AI at little to no cost, so that you're constantly being monitored to find the disease. At the very beginning, these changes are coming.
- [57:26]
Rich Roll
Yeah. All you have to do is think about the CRISPR example and how complicated and how expensive was it to map the genome at the beginning?
- [57:36]
Peter Diamandis
It's 3 billion doll for the first genome. Then Craig Venter did it for 100 million, and it's down below 500 bucks now. I just saw a company report that they think they can do a $10 genome. And then the world changes. Right? You go in for dental checkup and they'll sequence your genome to decide which is the best anesthetic for your mouth. Every kid born, my niece just had a baby today. It isn't routine to sequence the genome, but. But every child should be sequenced because we'll tell you about their early years before they can communicate. I mean, there's a lot the world's about to change in a medical health realm.
- [58:17]
Rich Roll
Imagine you suddenly became Surgeon General or you had some role of power where you could kind of make these things happen at scale. What would that look like right now with a technology that is currently available, without thinking about what's on the horizon.
- [58:36]
Peter Diamandis
The very first thing is what RFK is working on is reinvent our food system because our food system is killing us. Ultra processed food, sugar, salts, all of these things. The stuff that's cheap and tasty, it's destroying Americans lives. And I'm clear about that. That's the first and foremost. You know, there might be educational programs we put in place, but then it's, you know, what we're finding has the most impact is MRI imaging to find aneurysms and cancer. There are programs under development that will take an MRI from an hour and effectively, you know, a couple thousand dollars down to 10 minutes in a couple hundred bucks. I've seen the tech. So helping that move along and then putting that where it's accessible to everybody. A lot of companies, companies don't realize how much money they could save on their health care and on lost days of work and on replacing employees. If they just put a sliver of money into helping your employee feel better and be in a better health. So I think those things, I mean, one of the X prizes I want to do. So as you know, I run this X Prize foundation for 30 years. Now I'm chairman of it. Anushan Sari, who's our CEO, runs it. We just launched a $101 million prize for extending the healthy human lifespan by 20 years. But another Prize I want is we should be able to create a suite of sensors that is on your body that's measuring five or six key parameters into an AI and then the AI providing feedback to optimize your health. Your practices thrive. Global that Arianna runs does similar things, but without the easy access to data. So I think sensors and AI are going to give us a way to really, in background mode, make sure we're healthy, we're developing healthy habits, we're putting ourselves into a parasympathetic mode. We're. When we're stressed, we're doing the right things to reduce that stress. I think all of these things are coming in and should be implemented.
- [61:25]
Rich Roll
I think that the real opportunity is in the synthesis of all the data to help us really understand what's important, along with kind of guidance around how to kind of move the needle in the right direction. Because right now we have lots of sensors. I'm wearing a whoop. You've got an aura, whether it's levels or whatever patch you have on that's monitoring your glucose levels. We have sleep metrics. We have a lot of data already at this point, and I think the average consumer kind of looks at it and tries to draw conclusions. And these apps sort of provide some kind of feedback, but it's very general and I don't know that it's necessarily all that helpful yet. And none of these things are talking to each other, so we're not treating any of these things holistically. Right. We're kind of picking and choosing, and we're kind of making up our own minds about the inferences that we're making from these data sets. Like, we're not qualified to really understand the nuances of what HRV means and the variations when we wake up and we see what it is, what we're supposed to do with that, you know what I mean?
- [62:36]
Peter Diamandis
And what we could do through the day to increase our HRV or prepare ourselves for sleep. And I do think we're going to have these AI health coaches, and I think they are going to be something which ultimately is free because your company will pay for it, because it increases your productivity, your energy levels, you reduce healthcare costs and so forth. And the economics will be strongly in favor of giving it to your employee.
- [63:04]
Rich Roll
There's a little, like, Orwellian overtone to that. Yeah, maybe.
- [63:08]
Peter Diamandis
I mean, maybe you can opt out, but do you remember Progressive car insurance had a box they could put in your car that would monitor the acceleration of like, did you brake hard? Do you accelerate Fast, all of that. Did you have an accident? And if you put this in your car, they gave you a much lower insurance rate. Now, is that Orwellian? Maybe? Do I want the lower insurance rate? Sure.
- [63:32]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [63:33]
Peter Diamandis
And is it going to be.
- [63:33]
Rich Roll
Are they reporting that to your employer, though?
- [63:36]
Peter Diamandis
But is it making you a safer driver? Is it making you a healthier person? Listen. I mean, listen. I think one of my favorite sayings is the man or woman who has their health has a thousand dreams, and the man or woman does not has but one. And so don't you want your health? If there was little things you could do through the day and it was easy for you, why not? I mean, maybe you don't. Maybe you hunt a death wish, that's fine. But that's not all of us. I think it's important to realize that this is a very different time than the last 20, 30, 50 years. We're beginning to understand fundamentally why do we age? What is going on? And so one of the things we do at Fountain is we're searching the world for high reward, low risk therapeutics, things that can make you feel better, younger, and actually measurably do this. I've got this $101 million Healthspan prize that's focused on reversing the functional loss in muscle immune cognition so that with a year of therapy, a year of therapeutic, if the winning team pulls it off, you've got your ability to build muscle you had when you were 20 years younger. You've got the ability to mount an immune reaction like you did 20 years younger, and your span of memory and such is what it was. So we have 460 teams in that competition. And the stuff that we're seeing is amazing. Some of those will flow into centers like Fountain Life. One of the ones I'm excited about is a company called Immunis. We've just announced a partnership with them where we're going to make this available to our members at no cost. And part of a phase two FDA trial. And Hans Kiersted's the CEO and he's developed a product which is. It's the exosomes and growth factors being put out by a specific kind of young stem cell. And he's characterized it and he's been able to reproduce this consistently. It has 440 parts that it puts out growth factors, MRNA's, exosomes, and that's the drug. And he gives it on a weekly basis. His phase one trial of 18 patients, I think it was aged like 55 to 75. These are people who have severe osteoarthritis. They're in pain, they can't walk. Here are the results from their phase one trial. No negative side effects at all. The members had a reduction in pain between 50 to 70%. Consistently. They had an increase in muscle mass. And remember, these people are effectively bedridden or chair ridden. An increase in muscle mass by 6%, a reduction in their immune age by 30 years, and a reduction in whole body inflammation by 50%.
- [66:54]
Rich Roll
All other variables held constant. Checked. What was the sample size on that?
- [66:59]
Peter Diamandis
18.
- [67:00]
Rich Roll
18?
- [67:00]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. So it's small, but it was consistent across all of them. And they're doing a large scale study.
- [67:07]
Rich Roll
Next, what was the timeline? What was that?
- [67:10]
Peter Diamandis
Over three months.
- [67:11]
Rich Roll
Three months. Okay.
- [67:12]
Peter Diamandis
So it was a weekly injection over that period of time, and then the 6 minute walk test increased by like 150 or something like that. The point is, it was like, this is incredible that these young stem cell growth factors were signaling the body to reverse its functional age. And so it's stuff like that that's in the lab right now that gives me tremendous hope. And there's a number of other similar type situations coming out of stem cells and in other areas. So there's a lot coming. And I think I want people to have that longevity mindset. Like, wow, if I take care of myself, I write about those in the book, I can intercept these coming technologies.
- [68:09]
Rich Roll
I'm interested in parsing fact, not necessarily from fiction, but maybe fact, overeagerness. Like, there's a lot of interest in healthspan extension right now and longevity. There's a lot of kind of quote unquote experts out there saying lots of things. And I think for the average consumer, it's like, where do I find my footing in this? What do I really need to know? People with products, et cetera. It's really hard to know what's efficacious here, who's giving me the straight story about the most important things. And maybe a couple cherries on top because it's fun and I have some disposable income versus somebody who's over extrapolating from weak data sets to make claims that are a little bit, you know, they're a little bit out of over their skis on.
- [69:00]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, yeah, for sure. You need to look at the data, you need to look at the scientists, you need to look at all of that. Right. So I try in longevity Guidebook to provide the data that I've been using to make my own decisions. Right. And so it's the references are all there and the study sizes are all quoted and so forth. And we're going to see a lot more in the years ahead. Is it still early days? Sure, but I'd rather be alive today than, you know, than 50. I was alive 50 years ago, but you know what I mean.
- [69:39]
Rich Roll
As was I. Yeah. The new year is upon us. Everybody's thinking about how to get healthier, how to lose weight, how to eat more nutritiously. And we have the perfect solution for you. It's called the Plant Power Meal Planner. It is our digital platform that provides literally thousands of plant based recipes created by nutritionists and chefs that are easily customizable based on your preferences and your individual needs. It's been a tremendous success for our audience. It's also quite affordable, like the price of Starbucks a week or something like that with grocery delivery, with access to nutrition coaches and so much more. And now for the holiday season, we have a special offer for those of you who still have yet to explore the Plant Power Meal Planner. Right now you can get 20 off an annual membership when you use the code POWER20 at checkout. So it's a new year, a new you, and everybody needs inspiration in the kitchen. The Plant Power Meal Planner is absolutely extraordinary in supporting you in achieving your health and fitness goals. So to learn more and sign up, go to meals.richroll.com and use code POWER20 for $20 off off your annual membership. So diet, sleep, exercise, you know, stress levels, things like that. Things that, that we all kind of like already, they're still, there's still the.
- [71:20]
Peter Diamandis
Fundamentals that are critically important for us.
- [71:22]
Rich Roll
But like beyond that, when we start to, you know, we talked about diagnostics and as we kind of move into, you know, the sort of newer frontiers of what we're seeing and understanding and things that you're experimenting with, with respective medical interventions, supplements and you know, hormone therapy and all the like. Like what is, you know, what are some of the top level things that you think, you know, move the needle are important for people to understand and worthy of their own exploration. It's always like, for whom and when. Like you know, in the book you're always like, look, cause you could see everything I'm doing. But like everybody's different.
- [72:00]
Peter Diamandis
I say that over and over again.
- [72:02]
Rich Roll
But here's the thing, Peter. Brian does the same thing, but people just want to do Brian's blueprint protocol exactly the way he does it because it just makes it easy. So anyway, go ahead.
- [72:12]
Peter Diamandis
Well, I mean, listen, it's not Rocket science right now, to be clear, it is exercise. Just get your butt out of bed. And exercise is the number one pro longevity thing. It reduces all cause mortality by threefold. Your chance of cancer by 50% if you're over 60 and exercising. Just get those muscles moving. Resistance exercise, right? Lift some weights, go and walk. I mean, I can't say it more clearly. Get eight hours of sleep. Our body needs sleep. If we were able to get away with less time, evolution would have gotten rid of sleep. You are open for predation. You are not being productive. It is the most wasted time in the world. But it's not. It's during sleep that you clear proteins from your brain. And if you're someone who's not sleeping, who's routinely just has regular shift work and you're shortchanging yourself, we're the only species on the planet that actively shortchanges the amount of sleep we get. You have a massively increased chance of Alzheimer's or other neurocognitive diseases. And then, I can't stress this enough. I love sugar just like everybody else. But it is, you have to remember our physiology, our genetics maps against our evolution 200,000 years ago. And 200,000 years ago, there wasn't sugar in our diet. There was a little bit of fruit, there wasn't like sugar cane, none of this stuff. We went from like 100 years ago, like a couple of kilograms of sugar per person per year to I think it's like 100kg per person per year right now. And sugar is a neuroinflammatory, it's a cardiac inflammatory. It gloms on to proteins. Let me put it this way. We just did a study at a fountain looking at cardiovascular disease. And what was the highest thing that correlates with cardiovascular disease? Was it LDL or HDL or Lp or triglycerides? No, it was your hemoglobin A1C, which correlates to the amount of glucose in your bloodstream.
- [74:40]
Rich Roll
More than apob, Even more than everything.
- [74:42]
Peter Diamandis
It was the number one correlant to cardiovascular disease.
- [74:49]
Rich Roll
There has to be confounding variables with that, right? If somebody's eating a lot of sugar, what else are they doing? What are their habits? Like sugar.
- [74:56]
Peter Diamandis
Sugar.
- [74:56]
Rich Roll
I'm sure there is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting. What do you say to the carnivore enthusiasts? Because you're pretty clear on saturated fat and you're kind of like a Dean Ornish guy.
- [75:05]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I will tend towards. And I think Dean is brilliant. If you haven't read his books? You should, but I tend towards a whole plant diet and fish. So I guess a pescatarian one would say more Mediterranean than anything else. I stay away from red meat and that's a choice again from an inflammation standpoint. But, you know, I put in my muscle mass by taking in 150 grams of protein and creatine and then working out five days a week and just doing it viciously consistently. Now my job is to maintain it.
- [75:43]
Rich Roll
So when you sit down and do a carnivore diet host podcast and he tells you, look, this is, you know, everything you've ever heard about saturated fat is wrong. I've never been healthier. This is the way to go.
- [75:58]
Peter Diamandis
So I have been on a hard keto diet and I have been for about a year and a bit, and I did a vegan diet for a year and a bit. Each have their advantages. Each have their advantages. But guess what? We are not all the same. It depends on your genetics, depends on where your family's origin is. Are you from Alaska? Are you from Africa? Are you from the Mediterranean? That will affect very much. It also depends upon on what gut flora you're carrying. Right. All of this is to a large degree impacted by the microbes, the hundred trillion microbes in your gut. And so all these things affect. It's not as simple. I do know that. I feel like I can't go wrong on the diet I'm on because my family is a Mediterranean family for generations back.
- [76:56]
Rich Roll
Where's the science in terms of what we can extrapolate from the gut microbiome in terms of kind of lifestyle guidance? You can take a sample of the gut microbiome. Is the information that you're looking for in that. Do we have the technology to learn from that and say, this is somebody who should be doing this and that and avoiding these foods and focusing more on these foods.
- [77:23]
Peter Diamandis
Foods, I believe it is there and getting stronger. Are you familiar with a company called Viome?
- [77:29]
Rich Roll
Yeah.
- [77:30]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. So Naveen Jain runs Viome and they have a million plus samples where they take a blood, stool and oral sample and they're looking at microbiome in your stool, in your mouth, and they're looking at the transcriptome. So one of the things that they did the work on, which I'm very proud of them for, is your DNA is one thing, your RNA is another. So if you, you can. Your DNA doesn't change over time, right? You get the same DNA as you were when you were a kid. But what changes is which genes are being transcribed. Right. And so the DNA is there, 22,000 genes and 3.2 billion letters of your life. And then as you grow older or you change your diet or you change your environment, some genes are turned off and some genes are turned on. The genes that are turned on get transcribed. They get turned into rna. And so if you measure the rna, you then know which genes are active. And so that's what they've done. And they have like trillions of samples and they've got a really strong AI team correlating that. They will give you a result of that based upon what's in your gut. These are the foods that are your superfoods. These are the foods that you should avoid. These are the foods that are okay. And again, it's the beginning of this journey, but it's definitely where we're going.
- [79:08]
Rich Roll
Given the fact that obesity is driving so many of these chronic lifestyle ailments, what are your thoughts on Ozempic and GLP1?
- [79:17]
Peter Diamandis
Wow. I'm frustrated by it. People want a get rich quick pill or a get thin quickly pill. And for certain people who are morbidly obese, it's an important thing. But one of the things, if you're on Ozempic, this is your chance to use the. That relief from constant hunger to change your habits. When you lose your weight on Ozempic, and I know you know this, you lose not only fat, but you lose muscle. And then when you go off Ozempic, you gain back mostly fat. And so if you're on Ozempic, there are two things you need to be doing. One is you need to be exercising on a regular basis. You need to maintain your muscle mass to the best of your ability. The second thing you'd be doing is using it to change the habits around your eating. And so that if you go off as empic, you are able to hopefully maintain those habits you got. What do you think about it?
- [80:26]
Rich Roll
I mean, I'm of a similar mind. I'm certainly not shunning it. I think there's tremendous benefits for people who have really struggled to lose weight and have tried lots of things and for whatever reason haven't been able to to make it stick. Certainly if you're morbidly obese, but even if you're kind of just less than morbidly obese but overweight and have not been able to crack the code, I do see a path to better health. Given that obesity is driving all of these other downstream chronic lifestyle ailments. You can't dismiss that. The concern, of course, is exactly what you said. I have had Johann Hari on here who just wrote a whole book about this and he looks great. He's lost a tremendous amount of weight, but he's basically like, I'm staying on this thing. He has no intention of going off it. And he also sort of hasn't really done that piece of trying to change his habits. Like I'll just go to Kentucky Fried Chicken and eat less or I'll only go once in a while. And it's like if you're still stuck in those bad habits, you're never going to reach escape velocity from Ozempic. And do we know what the long term kind of risks of this are? I mean, I know there are already, aren't there?
- [81:48]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I mean, I write about it.
- [81:49]
Rich Roll
In the book pancreas issues or something like that.
- [81:52]
Peter Diamandis
There's also the ability to become, what's it called, a hedonic. It's like lose pleasure and there is pancreatic risk. So there are things you can do to activate, activate the same similar pathway. And it's pretty well known. I mean, number one is like chewing your food for like every bite 20 times that will begin to activate, slowing down your eating. Yeah, we are all. Well, we are all. I have historically been someone who's shoveling food in my mouth as I'm on a phone call or on a zoom or you know, reading email. It's like, like we don't take the time to sit and relax and enjoy a meal. You know, I'm having a friendsgiving tonight and you know it's going to be. I'm looking forward to slowing it down. Right. So I come to the dinner table and drink a glass of water first off, take a few deep breaths, maybe do a gratitude circle. And this is what we used to do culturally decades ago before CNN hijacked our brains. And that puts you in a parasympathetic mode where you're in the best position to consume your foods. And then that idea of food sequencing of your veggies first, your protein next, and your carbs last. And there are little things you can do like that and then remembering to just chew your food 20 times. I mean, if you take nothing else away from this, this conversation we're having for your listeners, I think those small things make a huge difference. You'll lose weight just by sequencing your food differently.
- [83:43]
Rich Roll
Mindfulness, mindful eating.
- [83:45]
Peter Diamandis
Yes, mindful eating. So challenging in this rapid period.
- [83:50]
Rich Roll
We were talking a little bit about the fear that some people have of getting these diagnostic tests. Like, I don't really wanna know. I think a close cousin of that is, is this idea, like, it's kind of too late for me. You know, I've been living my life a certain way. Pretty stuck in my ways at this point. You know, I'm 45. I'm 55. I'm 65. Whatever it is, it goes back to mindset. But this idea of, like, is any of this really gonna make a difference at this point? Like, I've been living my life for 50 years in a certain way. The answer is absolutely, yeah, I can always lose weight. But, like, why should I go deep into all of this stuff at this point?
- [84:31]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, there are lots of studies, preclinical, which means animal model studies that show intervention even in the last decade of life can deliver additional healthy years to you. And part of what you want to do is remember that health span Gap of 17 years between age 63 and 80. You want to enjoy those years. You don't want to. I mean, we spend an inordinate amount of money in hospital care and medical care in the last year or two years of your life, which is a ridiculous thing to do compared to having spent it earlier in your life. And I just think that if you love life, love yourself. These are the actions to take.
- [85:23]
Rich Roll
The prevention piece is something we can all kind of understand. When we start talking about the reversal piece, then it's like, whoa, is that really possible? It's related to the is it too late piece? Because it's sort of like, all right, well, kind of I'm where I'm at. Like, what do we know about things that can be reversed? And other things where it's like, well, let's just stop it in its track and, like, not. And make sure it doesn't progress any further.
- [85:49]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I mentioned immunis and their product, immuna earlier, which in my mind is a definitive reversal of your physiological age. Let's, you know, data will come out further.
- [86:04]
Rich Roll
What is the kind of mechanistic aspect of that? Like, what is it actually doing?
- [86:09]
Peter Diamandis
So it is when you're injecting this product, these 440 factors from these stem cells into your. Your body, into your muscle, it is signaling your cells to revert to an earlier stage that you are vital. I mean, one of the things that's important is 100,000, 200,000 years ago. I go back to the evolutionary history here. You were pregnant by age 12 or 13, no birth control, and by the time you're 27, or 28, you're a grandparent. After the age of 30, there is a measurable, consistent decline. Your stem cells throughout your body reduce by a hundred to a thousand fold in different compartments. Your hormone levels, pituitary, thyroid, your thymus is almost gone after age 30, which is what is educating your T cell. Your muscle tissue begins to. You have sarcopenia, begins to erode. It's because the body was never designed to live past age 30. And it doesn't have the signals that I am a vital individual and we should keep all these systems up and operating. So this particular product, and there are others cellularity, has these stem cells and natural killer cells. And there are other companies that we're investigating. It's about. About giving your body the signal that I'm in a more youthful state and the genes should switch back to how they were operating in a more youthful state. I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, I'm a moonshot guy. But I'm also someone who is willing to fight for what I want. And people have to make that choice for whatever reason.
- [88:05]
Rich Roll
The longevity space is sort of bro y. It's kind of like a Silicon Valley galaxy brain environment, for whatever reason. But I love the fact that.
- [88:18]
Peter Diamandis
Can I tell you the reason I think?
- [88:19]
Rich Roll
Yeah. Why? Is it because you've got megalomaniacs who want to live forever?
- [88:23]
Peter Diamandis
I don't think it's that.
- [88:25]
Rich Roll
That's the sort of narrative, Right?
- [88:26]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.
- [88:27]
Rich Roll
But certainly where the money. That's where the money is also for these innovations.
- [88:32]
Peter Diamandis
Yes, but I think there's a different reason. People in the tech field who have come in and revolutionized industries, they've come in and reinvented rockets and reinvented.
- [88:46]
Rich Roll
They're predisposed to think differently outside the.
- [88:49]
Peter Diamandis
Box, and they're willing to take on hard problems.
- [88:52]
Rich Roll
Yeah, I get that.
- [88:53]
Peter Diamandis
I haven't gotten Elon interested in longevity yet. He and I have texted back and forth, and he pokes at me. He says, I love donuts in the morning. I said, well, when you reach 60, let's have that conversation again.
- [89:05]
Rich Roll
I say all that only to kind of presage the fact that you have have a whole section in here for women's health and what's different about women's health and what we need to understand about those differences in the context of longevity. I mean, I had. Do you know Dr. Lisa Moscone? Wonderful, fantastic. She came in here and talked all about this. So I love that section. So what can you say about what's different about women's physiology. That's important to know in this longevity conversation.
- [89:36]
Peter Diamandis
Just to call it out, our chief medical officer at Fountain Life Life, Dr. Helen Messier, who has an MD and a PhD and she is one of the great functional medicine physicians. And when I was able to capture her with Bill Capp and myself, bring her in, that was like one of the most important days in this company to really imbue it. And then Mona Isat Villeneuve, who's my Fountain Life physician, who works with me directly, so two amazing women. We actually have a lot of women physicians in the company. I think what she says that's important is women are not little men. There is a different physiology and biology going on and it needs to be looked at uniquely. There's a section in here from Dr. Jennifer Garrison as well in that women's chapter who runs a center for. Or they've changed her name recently. I don't know if it's reproductive health, but she's done an incredible amount of work on what happens after menopause and how do we extend. Do you know that humans are only one of five species that go through menopause?
- [90:52]
Rich Roll
I didn't know that.
- [90:53]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, it's humans. It's the narwhal and three species of whales and then the millions of other species.
- [91:02]
Rich Roll
I just assumed, I guess in my mind that it was a mammalian thing.
- [91:06]
Peter Diamandis
No, no, it's not. It's five species. Another interesting fact is that a woman has the most number of eggs in her ovaries when she is 28 weeks old as an embryo in her mom.
- [91:26]
Rich Roll
Just trying to.
- [91:27]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I know, I know. It's a little mind bender. So your mom, when she was in your grandma's womb and she was only 28 weeks in, in her 40 week pregnancy, that was when she had the maximum number. So you were inside your grandma.
- [91:48]
Rich Roll
I got it.
- [91:49]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [91:50]
Rich Roll
So why is that meaningful?
- [91:51]
Peter Diamandis
Well, it's that the number of our ovaries have two functions. There's reproductive organs, but they're also a hormonal set and we forget about that. And women have a completely different set of medical physiological needs because of that. There's a correlation that the later your. If you have a sister, the later she went through menopause, the longer you as the brother are likely to live. Interesting correlation. So the chapter walks through from a food, diet, exercise, supplements, hormonal level, how women should think about it.
- [92:37]
Rich Roll
Yeah, it's obviously like diet, exercise, all these other things apply equally. But it's the Hormonal piece where things get complicated and it does need its own kind, kind of, you know, treatment.
- [92:49]
Peter Diamandis
And I don't want to. I didn't want to. You know, it is very different for 50% of the world, 50, 51% of the world, whatever it is. And I really wanted to have two incredible women lead that conversation in the book.
- [93:06]
Rich Roll
So I'm 58. If I came into fountain life prior to doing all the tests, just what are some things that you think, Think like, I should be thinking about that maybe I didn't need to think about five or ten years ago.
- [93:18]
Peter Diamandis
So your cardiovascular health is number one, right? It is still the number one killer for women and for men, and we think we're fine. And a lot of folks years over the last decade or decades would go for a calcium score, and you'd go, you take a CT of your heart, you're looking for calcified plaque on the arteries, and you get a calcium score between like zero and like 3,000, whatever it is. And if you. Zero. Oh, I'm fine. If it's a thousand. Oh, my. Oh, God, I'm worried about this. Well, it turns out your calcium score is immaterial. And people just now in these last few years are waking up to that. Unless your coronary artery, again, is the artery that feeds oxygen and glucose to your heart muscle. And if your heart muscle isn't getting oxygen and glucose, it dies, and that's called a heart attack. If the coronary artery is blocked by calcium, you need to do something. It's a stent or bypass, whatever. But if you have a zero calcium score and you say, oh, great, I'm fine, you're not. Not necessarily. So what we've learned is, is that it's soft plaque that's on the outside of the arteries that can evolve, can break off in the middle of the night and block a coronary artery. And so what we do is we do something called a clearly scan. It's a AI enabled technology that's able to recognize soft plaque plaque differentially from calcium, from calcified plaque, and you get a score. And now as part of found your ongoing membership, now we're gonna identify how do we convert that either to calcified plaque. So I think of. Calcified plaque is like cement on the side of the wall of a pipe, or how do we reduce it? And there's lots of different approaches and medicines and supplements and everything for that, but most people have no knowledge of that. And it's a ticking time bomb. If you do and again, you may have a perfectly good triglyceride and LDL and HDL and still have a soft plaque burden.
- [95:44]
Rich Roll
Is this form of testing new technology? It is, it is.
- [95:49]
Peter Diamandis
It's a new way of interpreting the ct, the tomography of your heart.
- [95:58]
Rich Roll
I see. So it's not the scan, it's the interpretation.
- [96:01]
Peter Diamandis
It's the AI overlay.
- [96:03]
Rich Roll
I see. I understand. Yeah, yeah. I mean, given that, you know, heart disease is the number one killer and this is how most people are going to die, it feels like the shit brainer. You know, appointment number one and a test that should be kind of integrated into, you know, every general practitioner's rotation.
- [96:19]
Peter Diamandis
So the next thing, after you've gotten clarity, there is understanding what's going on in your biochemistry, your mitochondria, understanding your microbiome, understanding the blood biomarkers. Other things that we do at Felton, and this is really important for me, is toxin testing. We're living in a very toxic world. World. Everything from water bottles that you're drinking out of to the environment, you're in mold. So most people just have no idea what their toxic load is. And if you don't know, you can't do anything about it, then it's food allergies. Are you gluten intolerant? Do you have allergies to other foods? Should you be eating? I won't go in the list, but I've discovered like, oh, my God, I should not be eating that food. So it's all of these things we have the power to know now to give you the option to make the choice.
- [97:25]
Rich Roll
What is your experience as somebody who deeply understands mindset? What is your understanding around behavior change when it comes to putting that knowledge into action? Right. Like, anybody who comes into one of your clients clinics costs a lot of money. They're going to be highly motivated, they're going to receive all this information. They're probably going to be in that cohort that's actually going to adopt the new behaviors. But what is the key distinguishing factor between the person who can hear news about how to change their life and then actually take the action versus the person who same information and yet just is like, can't do it, doesn't want to do it.
- [98:11]
Peter Diamandis
Do they have a support system that keeps this alive in their life? So it's different if you go through with your spouse or someone you love and you guys share your information and you're supporting each other in lieu of that. You know, we've got a medical team who will text me like, have you done that test? Have you done the Prolon diet yet? I want you to do that once every quarter.
- [98:40]
Rich Roll
Accountability.
- [98:41]
Peter Diamandis
Accountability, yes, all those things.
- [98:43]
Rich Roll
The social environment.
- [98:44]
Peter Diamandis
One example is I have my Abundance Summit. I mentor about 500 CEOs every March. And one of the things we've done after the summit every year is we have done a 21 day, no sugar challenge where those who want to opt in get into a WhatsApp group. There is a incredible physician scientist who supports that for us, and he provides you sort of menus. And everybody shares. It's mostly going into a ketogenic environment, but there's a vegan version of it as well. Well, and it's getting you off the sugar addiction. And it takes about three plus weeks to get there. But because you're going through it as a group, it's a lot easier. You have everybody's sharing photographs of what they're eating and sharing their experience. And we'll give people a glucose meter and a ketone meter so they can measure what's going on. And it becomes a group activity. And it gives you the strength to power through. And then it gives you the confidence afterwards that you can do that, assuming you have friends.
- [99:58]
Rich Roll
Everybody can create their own WhatsApp group, right?
- [100:01]
Peter Diamandis
Yes, you can. You can.
- [100:03]
Rich Roll
And there are power in numbers when you're trying to, you know, adopt a new habit. A new habit?
- [100:09]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah.
- [100:10]
Rich Roll
What are some of the moonshots that are seemingly coming to fruition? Like, what are you excited about that's on the horizon? Like, there's all kinds.
- [100:17]
Peter Diamandis
So much, oh, my gosh, crazy stuff.
- [100:18]
Rich Roll
I'm sure you see it all, all so much. You know, growing ears and like all kinds of stuff. Right.
- [100:25]
Peter Diamandis
So let me, let me give you a couple of these things and let's.
- [100:28]
Rich Roll
Couch it in, in some version of, of, of reality.
- [100:32]
Peter Diamandis
I'll give you exactly where they are. Why are some of these grounded? And why are these. Some of these are more ungrounded. So one of them is technology to regrow your organs. Okay, so I think we talked a.
- [100:49]
Rich Roll
Little bit about this last time. That was a couple years ago.
- [100:52]
Peter Diamandis
So it's moved tremendously forward. Dean Kamen in New Hampshire is building Regen Valley, Regenerative Medicine Valley. And he's built production lines to go from a skin cell, you have to what's called an induced pluripotent STEM cell using the 4 yamanaka factor and then growing heart, lung, liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas. And so we're moving towards a world where rather than waiting for Someone to die, you're going to have the ability to regrow an organ for you. That's your organ. Where is it today? They're creating large supplies of pancreatic islet cells for diabetics. They're creating bone, ligament bone. They're working on a pediatric heart, they're working on liver.
- [101:46]
Rich Roll
So on some level, my sense is that this is sort of an extrapolation of the science that's going into cultivated meat. Like, you're brewing cells, but you're taking these pluripotent stem cells, which are basically the cells that have all the information to grow the organ. And when you can kind of activate the robot. Right. Genes within that, it will grow. The thing is that the idea.
- [102:12]
Peter Diamandis
Well, you are growing these generic pluripotent stem cells and then you're triggering them to differentiate into heart cells.
- [102:20]
Rich Roll
What you want it to the pluripotent ones, they could become anything.
- [102:24]
Peter Diamandis
Yes, right, exactly. Martin Rothblatt and George Church have companies that have edited the genomes of pigs to make them more human. Like, like. And when you grow a pig to full size, the size of its heart, liver, lung and kidneys are very much the same as a human. Oh my God. And so you can transplant that in. Right. So these are moonshots.
- [102:47]
Rich Roll
But I cut you off though on Dean Kamen's thing. So how, like, what is the timeline horizon on that and what are the obstacles that have to be overcome for.
- [102:55]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, so every two years. So every year I take a group of my abundance members on what I call longevity platinum trip. One year it's the west coast, one year it's the East Coast. This coming end of September, we'll be on the east coast and we'll be at, in Boston and Cambridge, which is a super hotbed of this area, and then in New Hampshire visiting Dean. And they have hundreds of thousands of square feet of manufacturing space built out and they are funded by a couple of hundred million dollars in DoD grants because the Defense Department wants to be able to, to provide our veterans who have had organ damage replacement organs. Dean is the guy who created the Luke Arm, a electromechanical arm that replaces a lost arm from a veteran. And he created the Segway and the Eyebot. He's one of the most incredible 150, 1500 patents he's done. He's brilliant.
- [103:57]
Rich Roll
1600, 1500 patent. I mean, he's sort of best known for the segue now, but the segue that was sort of a weird, in kind of this modern day Edison figure.
- [104:10]
Peter Diamandis
He is a Beautiful man. He's also the creator of First Robotics, the high school robotics competitions that occur around the world. Other moonshots, the whole brain, computer interface world. Being able to plug in chips, if you would, into your neocortex, the outer layer, the brain, to enable you to feel and move things. Neuralink, Elon's company is best known, but there's some other ones coming which are amazing. I don't know where you want to go. There's another company that I'm going to have at the Abundance Summit this year. So it turns out we just recently mapped the connectome of a fruit fly. What does that mean? We were able to take a fruit fly's brain and slice it into thin, thin, thin, thin slices. And using AI to image all the neurons, like 150,000 neurons and 50 million synaptic connections and create a perfect computer model of that brain. And then we're able to say, okay, what should the fruit fly. We would able to put an input into this in silico brain, this brain in the computer model and say what would happen if we gave the fruit fly this input? It would move like this. And then for the real fly, you did the same thing and it moved like this. So we're able to take their brain and upload that brain. And what's coming next is a mouse. And then I've got a company presenting this year that thinks thinks for about $50 million, it's going to be able to do a human upload.
- [105:57]
Rich Roll
So you're extrapolating in complexity as you move up these neural networks, right? And you're developing an understanding of how it actually functions and basically creating a programming language for it. How does this impact us? What is the. Well, we're going to start use case.
- [106:16]
Peter Diamandis
This is the age of brain science. Why do some people get easily addicted? Why do some people develop depression? What's going on when someone's schizophrenic? We've been for the last hundred years just using a blunt hammer to try and solve things. This is going to get us to the point of understanding at a root cause what's going on on so we can begin to address these problems and.
- [106:51]
Rich Roll
Then we can hack into these systems and automate people and control them.
- [106:57]
Peter Diamandis
You can go dystopian there.
- [106:59]
Rich Roll
It's a curious thing though, Peter, because it's sort of like we were both at that Google conference, right? And it's very rainbows and Pollyanna about AI. And I know you're an AI optimist, very much so. But Then I sit down with Yuval know Harari and it's like we're doomed. It's like, yeah, it's dude, I'm just a dude who's like trying to get my, my footing amidst all of this. And I can see both sides of it. I mean there's no question that this technology is going to give birth to breakthroughs that we can't even possibly imagine. But there are dangers and there are risks.
- [107:31]
Peter Diamandis
Every day humanity just getting on the 405 here.
- [107:34]
Rich Roll
The story of humanity is basically like we break things and then we figure it out as we go. Right. So there's no slowing this down.
- [107:41]
Peter Diamandis
There's no.
- [107:42]
Rich Roll
And we're giving lip service to like oh, we need to like, you know, study this. And it's like, okay, yeah, I know there's really smart people that, that are, you know, that are looking at it and how we can, you know, like sort of move forward as rationally as possible and clear minded as possible with all this. But make no mistake, we're moving forward, you know, and to the extent that people are like we need to put the brakes on here, that's not, that's not really happening.
- [108:07]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, no.
- [108:08]
Rich Roll
So it's going to be switch.
- [108:10]
Peter Diamandis
There's no velocity switch. The best we can do is steer or guide.
- [108:14]
Rich Roll
How do you think about the potential downsides of these things and how we can put in place stopgaps to make sure that we're at least doing what we can to prevent these dystopian AI world. Yeah, the advances are happening so quickly.
- [108:33]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah, I'm not concerned about 10 years from now. My concern is the next five years. Years. It's not artificial intelligence that worries me. It's human stupidity. It's humans using this tech. I'm the optimist and I believe that digital superintelligence is going to be pro life, pro abundance. I think there's zero reason for AI to be trying to decimate humanity. I'm more like the movie her where it will get bored with us and take on off and so we'll find out. I interviewed Elon a month ago. I was in Saudi Arabia. I run the FII Future Investment Initiatives AI Council and I interviewed Elon there as well as Eric Schmidt and a bunch of other folks. And I said what's the probability of disaster versus the probability of success? When I spoke to Elon a year ago at the Abundance Summit, he said it was 80% success, 20% disaster. He's updated it to 90% success, 10% disaster.
- [109:42]
Rich Roll
But we still, that's different from, I mean, he was early in kind of being a cautionary voice. And Schmidt is coming from a cautionary place as well, is any more so than Elon.
- [109:54]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. And then we had Geoffrey Hinton, who I spoke to you about this and, and so listen, we're on rails. This stuff is moving faster. There's more capital flowing in. Every government realizes that this is fundamental to the success of their people. AI will be our educators, it will be our healthcare providers, it will be our decision makers, it'll be helping us grow our food, purify our water, create new energy methodologies. It's the greatest potential uplifting of humanity. And yes, there are downsides and worries. And I think again, it's the use of AI by despots and tyrants and such that concerns me.
- [110:49]
Rich Roll
It's not really a story around artificial general intelligence as much as it is around, around the relinquishment of agency. You know, like, we're all like, in all these different areas of our life, we're kind of turning over our agency to all these different AIs. And then how do you know? Can those be leveraged by organizations or people who don't have your best interest at heart to kind of drive their own agenda?
- [111:17]
Peter Diamandis
Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have a world with digital superintelligence in it or a world without? That was our question we asked at the Abundance Summit last year. You know, as humanity is growing and its tools are getting more powerful, and our chances to use those tools for dystopian objectives, I for one, would rather have a world that has as this super powerful digital superintelligence rather than not. I think humans need a lot of maturation still.
- [112:04]
Rich Roll
Yeah. I don't think you get one without the other. Right. Like, if you want this super intelligence that's going to help you figure out how to create renewable energy sources is it comes with this other side. It's almost, you know, it's like baked into reality. It's the history of humanity. It's the duality of everything.
- [112:23]
Peter Diamandis
It's fire.
- [112:24]
Rich Roll
So we're gonna, we will find out because we are going to play this experiment.
- [112:29]
Peter Diamandis
It's right here.
- [112:32]
Rich Roll
You'Re asking that question. I'm like, how could I answer that? Like, I would have to cast myself 10, 30, 40, 50 years into the future in order to be able to answer that.
- [112:41]
Peter Diamandis
Done. This is why I'm so clear. We're living in a simulation. It's like the most exciting time ever to be alive.
- [112:50]
Rich Roll
All Right. Well, we got to end this. So I want to leave people with some actionable takeaways. If you're watching this or listening, as you probably already are, kind of immersed in this world to some degree, but to the extent that somebody is new to these ideas, what do you want them to take away as a kind of precursor to picking up the book and digging into the nuts and bolts of the whole thing?
- [113:11]
Peter Diamandis
First of all, I just want to say the book is available on Amazon, but I've also made it available at my cost to folks on the website on longevityguidebook.com and any profits I'm making, I'm donating to the X Prize on this book. My goal is get the information out there, make it available for folks. I think that people need to remember you have agencies and your health and longevity is not written in your genes. It is to a small amount, 7% to 30%. The majority of it is your lifestyle. It's the actions that you take. So I want you to feel empowered by that. A lot of the things you can do right now are things that don't cost you anything. It costs you time and it costs you fortitude or the willingness to do that. Figure out why you want those extra years of life, that understanding of the why, or what you want to do with those extra decades. What's exciting for you. If you're in pain and you're suffering and you hate your life, there's no way you're going to spend the time doing this. But if you love life and you are excited about what's coming and you want to see your grandkids or whoever it is, connect to that why. Because that is the emotional energy that fuels you to do these things. There's a cost for getting out of your bed at 6am or 7am out of the warm blankets to go and work out. There's a cost in not eating that extra scoop of ice cream. So the why is very important. If you have the means, I think think going through a program like Fountain Life and there are others out there, but you can find more@fortunlife.com if you have the means, understand where your body is. I think we have the ability. It's like I said, it's like driving your car with your eyes closed.
- [115:22]
Rich Roll
Yeah. You can't fix what you're not measuring, basically.
- [115:26]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. So, I mean, those are the fundamentals. And then finally, you know, a longevity mindset. And I talk about that a bunch, which is there's an amazing world coming, incredible world of health, extension of longevity extension. And if you get that mindset that in part connected to your why is what's going to enable you to enjoy this and be part of it. But again, I think this is the most exciting time ever to be alive.
- [116:00]
Rich Roll
Yeah, it is pretty exciting. When are you going to open that? LA Mid 25.
- [116:08]
Peter Diamandis
Yeah. Otherwise you can go to our Orlando headquarters, Dallas, wherever you want. I mean, seriously, if you want to go. Please take as my guest.
- [116:17]
Rich Roll
Think about it. I'm going to think about it. Well, I appreciate you, man. You're a fascinating figure. I have so much respect and admiration for your curiosity and your ability to kind of like manifest things out of that curiosity. You have a rich imagination that you explore. You create these businesses out of it and entire sectors emerge from this. It's like really a remarkable thing, man. You're like a really incredible guy. So I appreciate you spending time with me today. Longevity guidebook. You can see exactly what Peter does. He lays it all out. He's got the red light therapy hat and all the stuff right. Like you want to know. It's all in here. But it's really easy to read. You can go right to the pages of the things that you're interested in and you lay it out like very simplistically. It's very simplistic, easy.
- [117:03]
Peter Diamandis
It's a reference.
- [117:05]
Rich Roll
It's like a syllabus, basically, but hopefully.
- [117:08]
Peter Diamandis
Written with some nice words.
- [117:11]
Rich Roll
Thanks, man. I appreciate, appreciate it and come back and fill me in when you know, we can grow our own organs and all that kind of stuff. All right.
- [117:19]
Peter Diamandis
Thank you, buddy.
- [117:20]
Rich Roll
Cheers. Peace. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page@richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra Voicing Change and the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power meal planner@meals.richroll.com if you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment. This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com sponsors and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media. Media is of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner and other subjects. Please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page@richroll.com today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Cameolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our Creative Director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davey Greenberg, graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis. And thank you Georgia WH for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace Plants.
- [119:15]
Peter Diamandis
Namaste. It.