← The Rich Somers Report
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, guys. We are buying two more boutique hotels along the California coast here with Summers Capital. 45 rooms off Market in Catalina island and a second deal up in Bodega Bay, which will make a total of eight boutique hotels owned and operated. Our investors get passive income tax benefits. And the best part is, unlike investing on Wall street and a lot of these other asset classes, like multifamily, our investors get to go and stay and experience these boutique hotels firsthand to see how their money's working for them. And so if you want to learn to see if we can help you before this opportunity fills up, you can go to summerscapital.com invest to book a call with my team. Again@summerscapital.com invest to book a free call with my team. Now let's jump into the show.
- [00:37]
B
My dad's death was the worst thing that I ever went through and the best thing that's ever happened to me because it taught me what I'm truly capable of. Nothing will reveal to you what you are really made of and who you truly are. Like extreme hardship, most people don't win because they just stop. 90% of extraordinary success can be boiled down to doing the obvious thing for an extraordinary period of time. I realized the only real risk is death. I want to empty the tank on my life. I started posting because I needed a place to put my passion. And here we are three years later and 3 million followers in a top 50 podcast. There was no secret sauce other than I just kept posting. I haven't missed an upload in three years.
- [01:16]
A
All right, guys. Today I got Michael Smoke in the building. What's up, Michael?
- [01:20]
B
What's up, man? Thank you for having me and spending some time and welcoming me into your facility.
- [01:23]
A
Dude, of course, man. I'm excited to have you on. Excited for this conversation. One thing that I find very unique about you is, is three years ago you were working full time as a W2 employee in cybersecurity sales. Seven years ago, I was working full time as a W2 Employee as an air traffic controller for the FAA. I had an 11 year career. I knew nothing about business. I knew nothing about real estate. I knew nothing about the content game. Okay, today we control north of $100 million of real estate. We're averaging 30 million organic views per month just posting organic content across the different channels. In just three years time, you went from knowing nothing about this game and content and media, and Today you're producing 60 million organic views per month across the different channels, across the different platforms. What is Your biggest takeaway, looking back over those, those, those three years, my
- [02:17]
B
biggest takeaway is that most people don't win because they just stop. One of my favorite quotes of all time that I heard from Alex Hormozi was 90% of extraordinary success can be boiled down to doing the obvious thing for an extraordinary period of time without convincing yourself you're smarter that you are than you are. And I think a lot of people believe that there's a formula for success that requires a degree of complexity, but in reality it's doing the boring thing independent of our emotional state. What's the obvious thing with getting in the best shape of your life? Probably just consistently eating well and going to the gym, whatever that looks like. Building a personal brand, building millions of followers like I have. There was no secret sauce other than I just kept posting. I haven't missed an upload in three years. I don't miss videos, I don't miss podcasts because I know if I just do so much volume, I can negate the likelihood of failure as a result of my output. And not only through the output will I get better, but the likelihood of success goes up. So it's a win, win. When I started this, I didn't even know what an influencer was, and I certainly wasn't doing it to become a creator. I had a passion for what I was posting and I had nobody in my personal life to share it with. Fitness, neuroscience, and self development. I didn't really have many friends at that point in my life. They were all off doing their own things and I was obsessed to a degree that people simply didn't want to hear, which is fair. We all have our things. I started posting because I needed a place to put my passion and I thought it could help somebody. And here we are three years later and 3 million followers in a top 50 podcast later.
- [03:52]
A
My biggest takeaway, looking back is this, because when I, when I got started, all I had in my name was a 401k. I was living paycheck to paycheck. I was working 6 day work, weeks, nights, weekends, holidays. And in between my breaks, after my, after my shifts, I would study real estate investing. I just became obsessed. And I took the only thing I had in my name, which was a 401k, and I went against what society will tell you. But I cashed it out. I paid the 10% penalty to the Fed, I paid the 2 1/2% penalty the state of California, and I rolled that money into real estate investing. And I was just thinking about doing one deal at the time, I never thought it would lead to all of this, But I remember everyone at the time told me it was too risky. Friends, coworkers, people that I used to hang with, everyone outlined all the risks that could happen. And the biggest takeaway for me looking back today is all those risks, Michael, are real. So put some weight on them. But on the other side of the balance scale is another risk. And it's this. I could be 80 years old one day, laying in my bed, staring at the ceiling, kicking myself, because I never tried anything in life. How about that risk? That's a risk, too, that a lot of people allude to. And I think one limiting belief that a lot of people had, I had these same limiting beliefs when I got started was if you look at all these successful people online and all the most wealthiest people in the world today, you always think that they had everything figured out from the jump. But the more I grow in this game and the more I do and do and do and get in the right circles, the more I realize that a lot of us are just figuring out as we go. We don't have all the answers. We don't have all the solutions. We don't have the blueprint. We are just figuring it out as we go. And that is really the sauce. And so my question to you is, talk about the importance of setting goals that scare you.
- [05:43]
B
Yeah, you're right about risk. I think you had. You had my friend Blake Rocha on a few months ago, and he talked about the difference between the stable, safe life on your podcast and doing what he does, building this incredible portfolio. And what you've done is risk appetite and having an appetite to be a little bit uncomfortable. And there's great entrepreneurs that say you can draw a straight line of correlation between the degree of success you have in this life and your appetite for uncertainty. If you value certainty highly, you can't do this stuff. It's just not possible. You have to change your values. And for me, risk is real in the way that money can be lost and things can be lost and failure per se can be achieved. But one of the most powerful lessons I ever got was the death of my father and the end of his life. How he replayed the things he wishes he did more of. And moving home to take care of him and be his caretaker was the worst thing I've ever been through because he was my best friend and the greatest thing that ever happened to me because for me, I realized the only real risk is death. If My physical safety is not harmed. I have to go after something if I want to do it. Because I would rather, to your point, get to the end of my life and know I tried something and it didn't work than when I'm stuck in the body that fails me when I'm 80. Replay all the things that I didn't do. That's how I view my life. I want to empty the tank. I want to empty the tank on my life. And so when it comes to setting goals that scare us, I started doing this in 2022 because I heard Jesse Itzler talk about the power of what's called a masogi. And it's a Japanese ritual and practice of purification. Okay, Jesse, the masogi.
- [07:15]
A
What is masogi?
- [07:16]
B
So the masogi is the year defining challenge. It's doing or setting out to achieve a goal that scares the hell out of you. A lot of people will pick the low hanging fruit of doing something physical because it's a direct line. So pick a goal that defines your year. Because Jesse's belief is a lot of people get through a year and they have nothing to show for it. So guarantee that you have something that you're working towards for the entire year that you're not even totally sure you can achieve. For me in 2022, it was running my first marathon. I wasn't a runner. I'd never run more than a 5K. And so setting a five month timeline to run a marathon scared the shit out of me. And then I did it, and I did it faster than I wanted to. And I remember in that moment crossing the finish line. And for the first time in my life at 24 years old, believing that I can actually do anything if I set my mind to it. And it's not just about running. That behavior, that belief, that dog mentality bleeds into everything in your life. So if you set out to do things that scare you and then you do them, you now have evidence to support that you are somebody who can do hard things.
- [08:18]
A
That's so good.
- [08:19]
B
And confidence is evidence based.
- [08:21]
A
And, and I think also realizing, like, hey, not everyone has the answers. No one has the answers. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Cuban, when they all started, they didn't know what they were doing either. But the only thing that separates them and everyone else is they took action regardless. A lot of the stuff that I've done over the last six to seven years to reposition my life, I had no idea how I was going to do it. You know, we get a deal under contract, we're going to go buy another real estate deal. I don't know where the money's going to come from. I don't know where the lending is going to come from. I don't know how we're going to get all the resources to go buy this, this, this deal. But we always figure it out and I commit to that target and we figure it out. The other thing that I think is great accountability is talking about your vision and talking about the things that you're going to do. Talk about your goals, put them out there on social media for the world to hear. Because what greater form of accountability when I go on social media and I say, hey, we're gonna go buy this deal, we're gonna go do this thing, well, guess what? Now it has to happen and you have to reinvent yourself to become the version of yourself that can go walk through that door or go close on that deal or whatever that goal might be. And that's a powerful form of accountability.
- [09:34]
B
You and I view that the same. I'm so glad you said that because I was in a debate with somebody about grinding in silence versus voicing your goals. And I remember the first marathon I was telling my friends I'm going to go sub four, which is about sub four hour marathon's about 8:59 pace per mile. First marathon that's top 80% finish. I did not know that I could do it in the moment when I was telling these people, but I went, I can't look like an idiot, I have to do this. And then I ran a 3:48 in my first ever marathon and I don't know that I would, would have done it if I didn't put my back against the wall. Now I'm telling people I'm doing this live tour in December. I'm telling them I'm going to sell out the tour, all 15 cities. We haven't sold it out yet, but I know if I put my back against the wall that I'm going to do the work. I am anti grind and silence. I believe you should voice your goals because not only does to your point, it give you accountability to an audience, whether it's your friends, family or the people that watch your videos. But there's something about calling that level of boldness and intention to a goal and what happens energetically when you do that and the opportunities that your brain notices when you call that much intention to something because we have a part of our brain called the ras.
- [10:42]
A
Okay, what is ras, the reticular activating system.
- [10:45]
B
That's the pattern recognition part of our brain. So Tony Robbins says we don't experience life, we experience a life that we focus on. And the way he demonstrates this is if I tell you, rich, close your eyes and I want you, when you open them to point out everything orange in the room, you're going to open your eyes, you're going to notice everything orange, and you're probably going to see some red shit and call it orange too. You're not going to be paying attention to this whole room being black. Because we experience a life that we focus on. So our brain is constantly looking for patterns and predictability. So if I'm saying I'm going to sell out the tour, I'm going to run a 330 marathon, I'm going to identify opportunities, beliefs and behaviors that align with that goal being achieved.
- [11:20]
A
That's really good when you say, because I agree with you here, articulating your thoughts in a very, I guess, articulate manner. When you speak, whether it's on camera or, you know, a one on one conversation that you're having in a lunch outing, the way that you articulate your thoughts will impact the ability for people to not just believe you, but also get behind your message. What do you, what does articulating your thoughts mean when it comes to speaking?
- [11:49]
B
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes ever was from a mentor. He didn't even mean to say it. It was before my first sales call when I was 23 years old. I was terrified. And he said, remember, Michael, clarity and conviction is perceived by those who hear it as competence and confidence. So when you speak clearly, you enunciate properly and you believe in what you're saying. I believe in what I'm telling you right now. You are going to be perceived by those who hear it as competent, smart and confident. And what do people do with competent, confident individual individuals? They follow them, they trust them, and they buy from them. And a great example of this is politicians. Their ability to speak with clarity and conviction gets them in office. Even if people don't agree with their policies or maybe they don't even follow through, you believe what they're saying based on how they run a campaign. Barack Obama was one of the greatest versions of this. Whether you examples of this, whether you agree with him or not, his public speaking skills were immaculate. He owned a room, he commanded a room. And so being articulate is everything. 80% of millionaires in a research study attributed a large portion of their net worth and success to their ability to communicate their message and their value proposition. You and I could have the same idea, the same skill set, the same billion dollar strategy, but I explained it in a way that made him understand it more clearly than you. I win. You're only as good as your ability to tell your story. And I think people also believe that it's this static skill that we're born with. Oh, I just have a stutter. Oh, I just, I just use filler words because I don't know how to not say like, no, no, no, this is a muscle and you can train it. Just like building calluses on your hands in the gym, you can build the callus of public speaking in your mind.
- [13:26]
A
I always say, put yourself in situations where the hard way is the only way. Put yourself in situations where the hard work has to get done. We're recording a podcast today. But just to double down on what you just said, for me, I was never a natural born speaker. I was never a natural podcaster. My first handful of podcasts, I was so nervous that literally one of my podcasts in person, my very first in person podcast, we had to stop the recording because my hands were sweating all over the table. I had to tell the host, hey, I'm so sorry, can we clean this up? We need to take a pause. And so I say all this in that, you know, now today I'm north of 600 podcasts in, uh, and if you accumulate all the different pods that I've guessed it on, we're probably looking at like north of 750 podcasts that I've done today. I record three every single week. It's a non negotiable. People are flying in from out of town to come on the show. I have to show up regardless if I want to or not. I don't have a choice to not do it when people are flying in from out of town. And so that's why I say put yourself in situations where the hard work has to get done. And this game is about repetition. It is about the reps, it's about the at bats. And if I, I believe, I'm a strong believer that not just with speaking, but anything in your life, that's a weak point. If you just put the reps in, put the at bats in, you show up every single day and you just go, go, go. I promise you, after 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, it's going to be one of your strong suits.
- [14:53]
B
90% of success boiled down to doing the obvious thing for an extraordinary period of time.
- [14:57]
A
Just like we said earlier, the high performer question. This high performer question will get you more opportunities, more job offers, open up a whole new realm of opportunity for you. What is that high performer question?
- [15:12]
B
Yes. So whatever you do in an interview, for the love of God, do not forget to ask the high performer question. It's that simple. It sounds like this. You're going to interview a lot of people who can probably do this job, Rich. But in your opinion, what does the high performer actually look like? And then you shut up and you let them tell you exactly what they're looking for. You interview people for your team and your staff. I've been in over 30 corporate interviews because I would do them for practice. Throughout my career, I've never not gotten an offer. I'm batting a thousand because interviewing is just a game. You got to play the game. And that question, not only do interviewers love it, because everybody's favorite subject subject is themselves. So you're asking, what do you think? And you ask that question at every level. The hiring manager, all the way to the decision maker. What do you think it takes to win here? And then they'll give you what they're looking for. And then you can align your skill sets, your resume, and marry what they're looking for with your strengths. And that happens at different points in the process. But typically they love that question. They put you through to the second round, and now the hiring manager just told you what the director of HR is looking for. Then it's up to you to communicate and articulate effectively of how your skill sets and your knowledge match what's on their job description.
- [16:28]
A
And you could even flip that if you are the employer and you're, and you're. You're hiring a killer where you know, hey, this person is an A player. We want them on the team. They got a ton of different options. You can ask that a player the same thing and just flip the script. What does an ideal culture environment, workspace look like for you? If you could pick any, any place to go.
- [16:50]
B
Bingo.
- [16:51]
A
And then they're going to get there. 1, 2, 3, 4. These are the bullet points. And then you can sell them. And this is just really basic sales discovery. Where you at today? Where do you ultimately want to be? And, and, and, and identifying that gap. Right? And what you have is the solution that solves that gap.
- [17:09]
B
And I can't stress the importance of what you just said right there enough. Robert Louis Stevenson said, everybody lives by selling something. So everybody listening to this podcast needs to understand whether you are or are not in a sales job. You are in sales. You're always selling yourself. Relationships, friendships, job interviews, job promotions, everything is sales. And understanding the sales process, the discovery phase, needs identification, understanding what the challenges are, filling the gaps of those needs, confirming you understand, and asking for the sale that is the bones of every sales process will get you far in life. Whether you're trying to get hired, trying to get a girlfriend, or trying to build a brand, everything is sales.
- [17:49]
A
So one of the things that you say, it's cringe until it works. The new real estate idea, the new business opportunity, starting that new side hustle, taking out the camera and posting your first piece of content on Instagram, starting that podcast for the first time, the YouTube channel. It's cringe until it works. What does that mean to you?
- [18:08]
B
And then nobody can tell you. A few years ago, I was at a bachelor party for a roommate. And roommate at the time, this was years ago, and we were in St. Petersburg, Florida, and we were at a big dinner. We had a lot of guys, obviously, for a bachelor party. And so we had one of those back rooms in a restaurant. And I was about a year into content at this point. So this was two years ago maybe. And one of the waiters came up to me and said, michael, I don't want to bother you. I just want you to know your content has changed my life. I appreciate what you do more than you know. Thank you. Can I have a picture with you? And I went, yeah, absolutely. I was so grateful that he came up to me and said something. One of my friends took a picture. I gave him a hug. I said, I appreciate you, brother. Take care. Thank you for saying hi. And he walked away. And my roommate at the time, across the table from me, I'll never forget. He said one. He said that was crazy because that was the first time any of my friends had seen me be recognized. It happens a lot now, especially in a city like this where everybody's into fitness and wellness. But that was the first time they had all seen it at once. And in that moment, he kind of told on himself. The next thing out of his mouth was, I'll be honest, dude. When you started this content thing, we were all talking like, who the does Smoke think he is? It's my last name. Who the does Smoke think he is is you want to be an influencer. So in that moment, I realized two things. Number one, people will talk about you, and oftentimes it's the people closest to you, you know, and.
- [19:33]
A
And you can't grow with those who don't like how growth looks on you.
- [19:36]
B
Correct, because it mirrors back to them where they're not growing. Matthew chapter 13, verse 53 says, A prophet is not without honor except in his own hometown. And that's not to say that we're prophets and we're prophetic. But what this means is when Jesus walks into his hometown and begins performing miracles, the people are saying, is this not the carpenter's son? Is this not Mary's? And who is this man performing miracles? And it says, and Jesus did not do many miracles there because of their little faith. And it's not that we're prophets or that we're prophetic. It's that if you're without honor in your own hometown, the people closest to you are often not going to be the people who cheer you on. The people that mean the most to me. Now, I still have a couple friends that are my brothers and have been for a long time and have supported me the whole way up. But the people that I'm the tightest with who want me to win the most are people I've met since I started. And in that moment I realized they were silently shit talking me in the background. So yes, they will talk shit about you. Yes, you will look corny, you will look like a wannabe. But can you sit in the tension of knowing those things are true and do it anyway? Because if I let what my roommates thought of me dictate my behaviors, I wouldn't be on the Rich Summers podcast right now.
- [20:40]
A
That's so good. Only those who love their lives clap for others to win. And I always say, the happiest people I know, the happiest people I know root the hardest for others to win. The opposite is also true.
- [20:54]
B
Dude, I. I cannot stress this enough. Your success is going to mirror back to everyone around you what they either are or are not doing. Your desire to want more, your desire to put yourself out there, it's a projection. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. It's another piece of scripture. If people are shitting on you, talking down on you, and all you're trying to do is the right thing, your best, and you're morally and ethically aligned. You're right. If someone is happy, it's like David Goggin said so beautifully and simply, you'll never be shit on by anybody doing better than you. The millionaire will never dog the guy who's trying to make a buck in his first business. The shredded guy at the gym will Never shit on the person whose first day is in the gym. Never. Because people from above do not have time to tie up energy in doing something like that. Tallest Poppy syndrome. When people see you climbing up, they want to cut you down and bring you back to their level. And once you realize that, you can go, bless your heart, I love you anyway.
- [21:46]
A
Hate only comes from below. And that's very well said. Always very well said. Okay. You always say you can do more than you. You realize you can. There's a line out there. I forget how it goes. Something like, we always underestimate how much we can do in this time period, and we overestimate how much we can do in this period. And as I look back at, like, the seasons that I've gone through, because the, you know, as an entrepreneur, founder, we go through these highs. The highs are great, and then. And then the lows are heavy and lonely. And they can be a very lonely place because as you grow, less and less people can relate to what you're actually going through. You have less people to communicate about what you're going through. Your friends that you grew up with, all of a sudden, you get to a point where they don't relate to anything that you're doing right? And so they can get really lonely. But if you keep going and you keep going, little action every single day, consistent, steady action, and next thing, you look back, 12 months later, 18 months later, and you look back and you're like, damn, I don't even recognize myself from just nine months ago. Speak on that.
- [22:46]
B
I believe the path to becoming the best version of yourself should be lonely. I believe that that loneliness that we feel is actually a barometer that we're headed in the right direction. When I look back on my early life and what I was obsessed with in my early 20s, this passion that I had and having nobody to share it with, it's so clear now that everything I was learning, spending probably a thousand hours on podcasts at this point, sitting alone in my car, listening to this information, digesting it, and doing nothing with it in that moment is now all the stuff that I use to help people today in my content. But at the time I'm. When you're in it, it doesn't feel like it's for anything. Why am I alone? Why can I not to relate late to anybody? And now, on the other side of that lonely chapter, which every high performer has, do I have less connections that are deep and meaningful? Sure. But the ones that I have, it's blood. It's Blood brother. It's brotherhood. Truly. The friendships that I have are so meaningful and so aligned because of that period and trial of loneliness that I went through. And in regards to, you can do way more than you think possible. I really want to drive home that everyone at the highest level, to your point, is just a dude or just a gal trying to figure it out. They do feel fear. I feel fear, I feel uncertainty, I feel nervous, I feel scared. But I know where I feel the most. Inner resistance is the thing I need to head towards. And that's the indicator of a high performer. You know, there's a great book by Steven Pressfield, the War of Art. And the thesis of this book is where you feel the inner resistance the most is the thing that has the greatest potential to transform your soul. And that's what content was for me. I was just a dude in a corporate job. I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew I had a lot of fitness and science knowledge and I had nowhere to put it. And since then, it's gotten me published in GQ magazine, it's gotten me a large following, gotten me on the very podcast that got me through college to be a guest. Modern Wisdom. It allowed me to do things that I never were, not even in my realm of conscious awareness. I thought I'd just be a VP of sales by now, making a quarter mil a year, happy, maybe married, fine. But I'm. I'm on fire for my life now because I, I realize that it's. I'm renting the success and I need to pay that due every day. And God has blessed me beyond any reasonable measure and it's my job to steward it properly. And I just want anybody listening to this that thinks they can't build the brand, they can't build the following, they can't build a portfolio. You can do so much more than you ever thought possible if you have relentless consistency and you build systems that you can adhere to no matter what. It's like James Clear says, we don't rise to our goals, we fall to our systems. Building bulletproof systems that are different for everybody and having a little bit of evidence for your confidence and just a little bit of delusional self belief. It's the formula.
- [25:29]
A
When you say delusional self belief, what do you mean by that?
- [25:32]
B
I mean there should be things that you achieve and bulletproof systems that you have, but there should also be a couple things that when you say out loud, make you uncomfortable and make the people around you uncomfortable. That's what it means and then go out and do that. Anyway.
- [25:47]
A
I used to think building a billion dollar real estate portfolio here with summer's capital, of all the best quality boutique hotels, hospitality portfolio, that when I used to say that early on just a few years ago, it was, it felt like delusional and it felt like so distant. But today I'm like, it doesn't feel that way anymore and it feels just normal today. Now it feels like, okay, like I'm that guy now. And so when people are getting started in their journey and they're thinking about the thing and if it feels uncomfortable, it's good, lean into it. That's a good thing. When we think about some like doing the thing, it should either feel light or feel, or should feel heavy. And sometimes when you increase the goal, it actually feels lighter than the smaller goal. And that's how you know you're going the right direction.
- [26:39]
B
Absolutely.
- [26:40]
A
Okay, so a fun. You a fun way to test your friend's intelligence. If you want to see if someone is really smart, just use averages and nuances with him. What do you mean by that?
- [26:53]
B
I think that there is a direct correlation between someone's level of intelligence and critical thinking and their ability to understand nuance and gray area. The Internet's a great example of this. I made a video where I said on average, people with college degrees earn more money and feel fulfilled. More fulfilled, on average, meaning. The consensus is, generally speaking, if you're a betting man, the highest odd scenario of you making a lot of money and having a fulfilling life is getting a degree. And all the comments. I'm a blue collar man, so this ain't true. I make 200 grand a year and I don't go to college, so this ain't true. Your experience does not negate the objective through line of truth. I have a college degree. I have a very specific one. It's in professional sales. There's only 30 schools in the country that do it. So I use my degree every single day. I would objectively be worse off without that degree. But I also understand the consensus in these surveys is typically people with degrees show they can stick to things long term. They have the behaviors, the intangibles, they make better financial decisions, generally speaking. And people who have a hard time with critical thinking don't understand nuance in gray area. It's this is my experience, therefore your statement is untrue. That's not how life works. Well, I didn't get rich in real estate, so rich business. Rich's business model must not Work. The hell am I talking about? That's not how it works. So that's what I mean by that.
- [28:10]
A
Yeah. And so do you believe that this also applies to becoming successful in business as an entrepreneur, as a founder, the college education?
- [28:24]
B
Yes. And when I say that, I'm aware that there are obviously exceptions to the rule, but I know a lot of high earners and people who have their own businesses now who gained the business chops from getting a business degree, which landed them a corporate job, which taught them how businesses run, which enabled them then to step into entrepreneurship. That doesn't mean you can't do it without all of those things. I have friends that did it without all of those things. I know. Generally, though, generally speaking, a good way to get business chops is go learn from business professors, people who did it. I was very lucky that my professors were all in industry.
- [28:57]
A
They weren't just academics, because most of them aren't.
- [28:59]
B
No. They started teaching because they got. They made a bunch of money and wanted to go back and give back to the community.
- [29:03]
A
Those are, Those are the right classrooms to be in if you're going to do it.
- [29:06]
B
Yes. Yes. So do I think you can do it without. Absolutely. Do I think there is objectively. Objectively inherent value in getting a relevant.
- [29:15]
A
Yeah.
- [29:16]
B
Degree? Yes.
- [29:18]
A
So this is my thoughts on that. I agree with everything you're saying. However, I do feel like, generally speaking, and I'm speculating here, I haven't looked at data, but this is just from my personal observances from people that I'm around. I feel like the more educated the person, the lower their risk tolerance tends to be.
- [29:37]
B
This is a great counterpoint.
- [29:38]
A
Yes. Let me say that again. The higher the education level of individuals I'm around, the lower the risk tolerance tends to be. And why that matters when it comes time to entrepreneurship and business is because a lot of the things that we do in business, we don't have the answers. We are operating and we are continuing to take action and continue to bet on ourselves without knowing all the answers. We don't know what tomorrow's going to bring. But the one thing that we do know, if you're confident, is that we have the resources and the wherewithal to figure it out whatever problems come our way. And we're putting out dozens and dozens and dozens of problems or fires dozens of problems every single day as, as founders. That's what we do. Right. So at a certain point, you just get great at making decisions and solving problems. And you do that enough times, you Realize, you know what? No matter what challenges we face, we're going to figure it out. Now, I also believe there is something to be said about the opportunity cost of someone becoming very highly educated in that they have more to lose than the person that never went to college and never went to go get their master's degree to become a lawyer, a doctor, whatever it might be, because the person that never went to college has nothing to lose. They're more likely to go do the thing and more likely to go bet on themselves, take the risk, et cetera. And so when you factor the opportunity cost, I think that it does hinder the person that is more and more educated because they have more to lose.
- [31:09]
B
Yeah. And I think you can. You can argue also that by taking the college route and falling into the conservative 9 to 5 route, you, to Blake's point on your podcast that I mentioned earlier, develop a lower risk appetite because you find familiarity with the structure and safety of that, that pathway. You know, I could have stayed in a safe job. To Blake's point, I was making really good money. Safe, stable, predictable path upward. And then I chose not to. Luckily, I thank God I did. But I don't disagree with that point at all. And I also think there's an interesting point to higher levels of education and lower risk appetite. I saw a video once of a creator who said, I've met a lot of millionaires and a lot of them are dumb. And he said, here's what I mean. They, smart people will sit and plan and think and strategize for six months. Meanwhile, the dumb person has been trying things for six months. And so he's got six months of feedback. You're still in the planning phase. And then he said, and he's too dumb to understand what a failure is. He just goes, that didn't work. Try something else. So dumb is a bit of a hyperbolic statement, but typically success loves speed. And the goal with entrepreneurship is to create a razor thin edge between your awareness of an idea and the execution of that idea. And the wider the gap typically widened by thinking and strategizing, the lower the likelihood of success, in my experience.
- [32:28]
A
It's so good, man. It's like the people that read all the fine print, all the minouche details of every decision, all these details that don't matter because, you know, with every decision that we do in business especially, 99 of the information is irrelevant, and there's only 1% that is actually relevant to you making the decision. And I'm like, yo, just give me that one piece of information, and I will give you a decision right now. But if you're reading the other 99% of the fine print, those are the people that never take action. They never do the thing, they never bet on themselves. And then you come back 12 months, 18 months later, and they're still in the same position.
- [33:06]
B
And you know what, I'm just thinking this right now, but the more you have to think about a decision before you make it, tells me a lot about how much you trust yourself. Because when I make a decision, I signed a contract yesterday with a new brand. I, I read the first three lines of the contract, I like the vibe of the call with the guys, and went, yeah, let's do this. Because I trust myself, if it doesn't work out to pivot, I trust myself. I don't need to read the fine print. And I think there's a correlation between the amount of time you need to marinate or strategize on a choice. It's like one of the. This Harvard professor was on the Rich Roll podcast. She said, instead of focusing so hard on making the right decision, just make the decision right. Just do it, run with it, and trust yourself to pivot if it doesn't work. It's that simple. It's not easy, but it is simple.
- [33:51]
A
One of my favorite lines is, successful people make decisions quickly and change their mind slowly. Broke people make decisions slowly and change their minds quickly. How often do you see a broke person take forever, forever, forever to make a decision, and then they finally do the thing, and then all of a sudden they're second guessing themselves. Where if you look at successful people, they're quick to make a decision. We have dozens of decisions to make every single day, and most of them we're not gonna remember two days from now. That's just the truth. And so successful people are quick to make a decision a yes or a no. I love when people tell me no. I love when people tell me no. Because if you're in sales or you're in business, we gain utility from the yeses, we gain time from no's, we get nothing from maybes. And so the quicker you can force someone to making a decision, the quicker that you're gonna be able to continue growing and doing the thing, whatever it is that you're building. And so again, successful people make decisions quickly, change their mind slowly. Poor people make decisions slowly, change their minds quickly. That's a powerful statement. It's. It's true with everything. You apply this to any form of business, real estate, fitness. Like literally anything. And this applies, beautifully said.
- [35:08]
B
Are no failures. There is only feedback.
- [35:11]
A
What is your thoughts on compounding decision making? Because here's the thing, like the ability to make quick decisions is a skill set. And if you compound that over weeks, over months, over years, we're talking a big number of, of decisions that are made throughout the course of a year versus the person that, that was very slow. I'll give you an example of this. I used to have two partners when I first got in the real estate game. We all cashed out our 401ks, we were all air traffic controllers and we bought real estate together. We still own real estate together today. My first podcast, I had with with these two individuals. They're great dudes. I would trust them with my kids. But in 2022, I decided to go on my own. I realized I was not going to reach my full potential under that partnership. The reason is, is because we had a different level of risk tolerance. I always say if you're going to partner with anyone, there's three things. Number one, they got to be a good human being. Number two, they gotta have a complimentary skill set. And number three, nobody talks about this. But number three is the person you partner with should have a similar level of risk tolerance. Because when decisions come up in business, and by the way, there's dozens of decisions every single day to be made. There's dozens of decisions and fires to put out every single day. If you don't have a similar level of risk tolerance, every decision is going to be a grueling 2 hour, 4 hour, 6 hour meeting. And you, it's impossible to grow that way. And so since I've been on my own, I empower my team. Now I'm like, hey guys, we're gonna move quick with decisions and I empower them to make decisions. It's gotta be the best decision with the information that we have. And then we go and if it's not the right move, we're gonna pivot and we'll tweak until we find that unlock and that's it. But that compounded over weeks, over months, over years, of, of, of someone going through a week and making 15 decisions a day versus one decision a week, compounded over weeks, months and years is the difference between becoming Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan and the difference of never making out of high school JV basketball.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Alex Hormozi says that if you can find a way to make decisions that take a week, take a day, you can increase Your speed of success seven times. So basically what you just said, 15 decisions in a week versus one you're getting to your end outcome, goal, or the ability to need to pivot towards the goal 15 times faster simply because you decide quickly. Whether it's the wrong decision or not is totally arbitrary because you went back to what we were just talking about. We're going to make this decision quick. If it feels good, we run. And I trust myself and I trust you guys to pivot. Success loves speed. So you just 15x your team's ability to achieve your KPIs for the year simply by not marinating on decisions. Every time I have waited to make a decision, it has been the wrong one. And every time I've moved fast, it hasn't been the right one. But more often than not, my gut, that first voice I hear about something I've learned to listen to. And that's something that I wish I learned a long time ago.
- [38:11]
A
That's interesting. You say that and, and there's a saying and it goes something like trust your gut. And it's, it's, it's kind of true because more often than not, like our gut instinct is usually right. I like to say that I have pretty decent intuition of people's character, people's behavior. And, and sometimes when we just over guess and overthink and overthink and delay the thing, we're all guilty of it. I'm guilty of it too. The more likely we are to make the wrong decision. But also I think the other importance of making quick decisions is creating a busy calendar. Like you heard right before the podcast, I had to make a decision.
- [38:51]
B
You sent a voice memo right before we started the show to somebody.
- [38:54]
A
Yeah, yeah. And so we're negotiat. I'm in a negotiation on a real estate deal and it's like, well, I know that you're coming and we're about to start a recording. I'm going to be unavailable. I got a lot of stuff going on. And so it's like, yeah, why would I. Let's just, let's just make a decision roll right. And that's a perfect example is like if you have a busy calendar, it forces you to make decisions quick. Otherwise you're not going to be in this game for very long.
- [39:22]
B
And you have a deep level of self trust. I know that about you just in a little bit of time we've spent together. Because I would argue you have evidence to support the narrative that when I move quickly, things work. This goes back to confidence and self belief are evidence based. You don't become confident by shouting affirmations in the mirror, but by having a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are. You have undeniable proof that this approach works and that leads to a deep, deep, deep self trust.
- [39:50]
A
One of my favorite lines is certain doors won't open for you until you become the version of yourself that can walk through them. But when you go through these tough seasons, because it's inevitable. If you're listening to this right now and you're in business, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're listening to this right now and you want to get in business, at some point, you're gonna go through these seasons where things get heavy and they get lonely. But when things get heavy and you don't know where the money's gonna come from, you don't know what tomorrow's gonna look like. It forces you to reinvent yourself because your back is against the wall and whatever you're currently doing is not working. And so it forces you to reinvent yourself and do things differently. And by pivoting and pivoting and pivoting, eventually you're going to find an unlock. And when that unlock happens, you now catapult to this next level. The new door unlocks, and all of a sudden you have all these new opportunities and that's the new baseline. And you never go down below, that's the new baseline. And then from there you evaluate, you see what you did wrong, you see what you did right, and then you figure out what the next target and what that next level looks like. And you, and you, you come up with the resources that you need to go attack that next target. And you get back to work. Talk about the importance of not having a plan B and having your backup against the wall and forcing yourself to reinvent yourself until you find the right unlock.
- [41:18]
B
Hardship is everything when it comes to business and life. Count it all joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance run its course so that you may be complete and lacking nothing. That's James, chapter one, verse two, four in the Bible. I read that three months before my dad died when I was in the worst turmoil and pain of my entire life.
- [41:44]
A
By the way, I'm deeply sorry about your father.
- [41:47]
B
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm grateful that it happened. Count it all joy, when you face trials of many kinds. Because in the midst of Moving back to my childhood home to care for him alongside my mother. And in his words, God rest his soul, I did things for that man that no kid should have to do for a parent. And he was my dog, right? My best friend to the absolute end. And you talk about your back being against the wall, and there were days where I. It took every ounce of strength to peel myself out of bed because of the day before his emotional pain. But I had clients, I had content to post. I had a podcast to record. I was training for a hyrox. Nothing will reveal to you what you are really made of and who you truly are. Like extreme hardship, because I was able to show up for myself and for the people who needed me, my clients and the people that follow me on days where I barely could get out of bed because I was just so depressed and in so much emotional and mental turmoil. And now I know what I'm capable of as a result of the worst trial I've ever been through. Which is why people get uncomfortable when I say this, but I say my dad's death was the worst thing that I ever went through and the best thing that's ever happened to me because it taught me what I'm truly capable of. In those seasons as entrepreneurs, that's where you learn what you are really capable of. I did. To your point, Rich, have to reinvent myself. This the boy in me that depended on his dad for guidance and wisdom and clarity and knowledge, he couldn't be there anymore. I had to do something different. I had to. You know, there's this interesting concept. One of my good friends back home, Chris, Chris Turner, his dad died eight months before mine. And he brought up an interesting point. When my dad got sick, we went for a run, and I was not doing well. I wasn't able to accept that he was going to die. We knew he was going to die. And his dad had died eight months prior or six months prior at that point. And he said, you know, in our culture, there's no real coming of man ritual. And in other cultures there is. You go out, you kill the elk, you bring it back to there, the gazelle, and you bring it back to the tribe. There's. There used to be a modern transition, or, excuse me, a clear transition from boyhood to manhood. And we don't have that in American culture. It's just you kind of hit puberty and then you go to college and you have a job. The death of my dad, I feel, actually was the first time that I had to become a man and show up independent of how I felt because people were depending on me to support and provide for people, independent of how I felt. And as a result, I feel closer to who I'm meant to be and who God designed me to be than ever in my life. And so for anyone out there going through a tough season, whether you're, you're building the business and it's not working, you're building a business in the midst of a divorce or death or grief or hardship of any kind, understand that what you are going through is going to sanctify you and prepare you for the next season. And I believe I'll close with this point. On the other side of those rock bottom hardship moments is a leap of success beyond your wildest dreams. It's like pulling back a bow and arrow and you're being drawn back in the tension. It's my coach key and says there can be no tension. There can be no ascension without tension. You cannot climb if you're not willing to sit in discomfort. And so for me, it was the worst thing I've ever been through for eight months. Followed by the most success I have ever had in my career and the most fulfillment I've ever been able to feel.
- [45:08]
A
That's so powerful, man. And to your point, with, with the, this bow and arrow thing, the lows in business, they, they are slow. But then when the level ups and the unlocks are straight up and quick and I always say if it feels heavy, and by the way, when it gets heavy, know that you're not alone. If you are going through the struggles right now, you're going through the right now, you're going through the trenches right now. And it feels heavy, it feels lonely. Know that you're not alone. It's not supposed to be easy right now. Everyone is going through their own struggles, regardless if they post about it on social media. You only see what people talk about on social media. But know that everyone on social media is going through their own personal struggles as well. This environment is not easy right now. We've been in a high interest rate environment for four and a half years. The economy is slower than it was five years ago, six years ago. And so if you're in business right now, it's not supposed to be easy, right? But, but I always say this. Being broke is part of the game. Being broke is part of the game. I know so many people, a lot of younger cats come up to me and they're like, hey Rich, I can't do the thing because I Don't have any money. I can't do this because I don't have any money. I can't do this. And that, that's their biggest objection to taking action that is their biggest objection to taking action on building their dream life. I don't have the money. The most successful people in the world today, the world's wealthiest people. Mark Cuban, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk. Elon Musk sold PayPal early on. He had a big bag early on. And what did he do? He turned around and shoved the chips all in, betting on himself, building the new thing. And everyone thought he was crazy at the time, going all in, going broke, shoving the chips all in, betting on himself. And now he's got multiple, multiple nine figure producing companies and everyone thinks he's a genius. He's the most, you know, highest net worth individual in, in the world today. And he built it betting on himself, shoving the chips all in every single six months. And so if you are broke right now, that is part of the game. And you will never make it to the top if you are not comfortable shoving the chips all in, betting on yourself over and over and over. And that's only though that's the only way to make it to the top.
- [47:34]
B
Yeah. Fortune favors the bold, especially when the bold work hard. And it's bold to bet on yourself. And to your point earlier, it, the, the lows feel slow and then the. I see. I think you said the upward growth happens quickly.
- [47:45]
A
It's so quick, it's a leap.
- [47:46]
B
It feels like nothing is happening and then it happens all at once. I was posting 500 views, 300 views, 200 views, a thousand views if I got lucky. And then I posted one video and I went to bed. Then I woke up and I had a million views and I had 10,000 followers and my life changed forever. Felt like nothing was happening. I was just posting into the ether and then all of a sudden I quit corporate America and now have 3 million followers.
- [48:12]
A
So you, you say that your life will get better when you get a following. I've experienced it. You've experienced it. What really changes for you?
- [48:22]
B
This is a great question. Earlier, just, just now, you said being broke is part of the game. Is it fair that you can get opportunities and excess and abundance as a result of having a following on social media? No. There's great people that don't and never will and won't get those same opportunities. Is that fair? No. Is it fair that people view me differently when they pull up my Instagram or my Tick tock and see 2.1 million and 950 000. No, I could be an asshole with poor character. That's not fair. That doesn't change the fact that it's the game. And you can either, in my opinion, sit on the sidelines and about the rules of the game and how they're unfair, or you can get on the field, learn the rules and bend them to your will. And the the modern day social status is building a following on social media. It has put me in rooms and interviews and conversations with people that I once idolized who now view me as a peer. Which not only is that incredible, but it also changes how they show up with me because they don't feel, they feel that it's a reciprocal value conversation. So I gain more from them because they're used to people taking and taking and taking. Let me borrow your time. Let me ask you a question. Let me pick your brain. Don't ever tell an entrepreneur I want to pick your brain. That's the quickest way to get me to fucking ignore you.
- [49:32]
A
Oh, I hate it.
- [49:33]
B
I just want to pick your brain. What you really mean is I want to ask you a lot of questions and then disappear and probably do nothing with the advice. And not that friendships and relationships should be purely transactional, but to a degree everything is a transaction. Mm. And so if you want to be gain value. Give value. Yes. For me, I don't think you need to do a crazy amount of stuff to build a following. I have a friend, CEO of a cold plunge company, started listening to my videos around because I'm sponsored by them, started listening to my videos around the importance of personal brand building and he built his following just to about 10,000. Just 10k. You just need that 10k by your Instagram. You don't need 900k. And he's a brand owner and a founder and now as a result of building his personal brand, he opened up a one on one consulting arm of his business that's done over a quarter million in six months because he built a personal brand and now 10,000 people are aware of him as a founder and they pay him 1500 bucks an hour for his time. Can I would argue that's life changing. And if he didn't start posting content on social media, just talking head, sharing his experience, he wouldn't have a six figure arm of his business right now. Is that fair? That's up for you to decide. Doesn't change the fact that it's true.
- [50:43]
A
That's so good man. Yeah, it's, it's definitely life changing in a, in a lot of different ways. And who was it that talked about this? I saw this recently. What's the big real estate agent guy out of. Oh, Ryan Sirhan. Ryan. Ryan Sirhan out of New York was talking on a panel and he said, on this panel, Ryan Sirhan said the personal brand is the most underrated asset class in America today for business owners. And he put this perspective in that he's in this real estate brokerage space. They, they sell, they, they represent buyers and sellers in real estate, you know, residential real estate across America. And he talks about all these other real estate brokers giants, these big mom and pop box, not Mama Papa, these big box real estate giants. They have not adapted to the modern times. And so what Ryan's done is he's created a media company. They're not a real estate company, they're a media company. And by the way, they just happen to sell real estate, right? So you're just flipping the way that you, you look at it, they're a media company. And by the way, they sell real estate. All the other brokerages have not shifted. They're a real estate company, but they don't have any media. And he's now taking over all these brokerages right now just because he flipped the script. And so, guys, this is the best time ever to be alive. 4.8 billion people use social media today, by the way. It's free to post. And that's half the world billion people use social media today. It's free to post. It's never been easier to start a business. It's never been easier to promote yourself. It's never been easier to get in the right rooms as today. And so when I think about where we are as a whole, the greatest transfer of wealth in American history is, is, is going down right now in front of our eyes. 40 million retiring baby boomers in the next six years. Currently, the boomers hold 51% of all wealth in America. The millennials, to put this in perspective, this is not the Gen Z, but the millennials hold about 9% of wealth. And so in the next six years, all this wealth is going to change hands. All these businesses, all the real estate, all this money's going to change hands. And those that are in the right rooms, those that are willing to bet on themselves, those that are willing to take action, are going to be set up to win the game. And so when I think about all of that, coupled with social media and, and, and the opportunity that's out there today. There's really no excuses.
- [53:03]
B
There's not, there's really not, man. And I think you talk about being in those rooms. Let's use me and you as an example. I'm going to be at your mastermind tomorrow as a. If I didn't Decide to post March 7th of 2023, I wouldn't be on that yacht with you tomorrow. And this is one thing, this is unrelated, this is one thing I'm not hearing anybody talk about. When it comes to the benefits of having a personal brand right now on social media today, this is an incredible argument for doing it. I now have an equity position in three companies that if they exit will have a crazy multiple solely off my name, image and likeness. No capital, no capital, just for brand association. I have ownership of these brands. So that's a whole new barrier of entry of investing just eliminated. If you can build equity, if brands want to tie their name to your, your brand on social media, you could say, hey, I'd like an ownership position in this. So in the event of an exit, I cash out. So now these three brands that I have equity in as either a consultant, advisor or creator because they want my face tied to the product when they exit, I'll make, God willing, a great payday. And I didn't put a dollar into it. All I did was build my nil, build my name, image and likeness. And so for people wanting to get into investing and equity out there, that's obviously an incredible way to build wealth. If you have 100k on Instagram and people love you and trust you, there are going to be brands that want to be tied to that. They want to hitch their wagon to yours. And I don't hear anybody talking about that. But I'm negotiating that into my brand deals.
- [54:30]
A
To put it in perspective, I used to work 56 hours a week, six day work, weeks, nights, weekend, holidays, all year long. And I had what's considered a pretty high paying career, $160,000 salary. With over time I would do my best year ever. I did about $210,000 but I was taxed in the highest tax bracket. So after everything I would probably take home 120k. To put this in perspective, our core business is buying and operating boutique hotels. But this month, in June 2026, this month the personal brand will generate north of half a million dollars, $500,000 in one month through the personal brand. And that's not even our core business. And that is what's possible with today's game. By the way, 4.8 billion people with a B use social media today. What does risk mean to you?
- [55:29]
B
Risk to me, and I don't know that I have a popular answer. Risk to me actually isn't real. People are going to immediately go, that's dumb. I've got families to feed. I've got to. I've got to pay rent. I've got to put a. Put a roof over my head. All true, but I said this earlier. If my physical safety, the bottom level of my Maslow's hierarchy of needs, are not in a direct line of threat, I do it. There's a lot of people who are scared to post on social media. There's a lot of people who are scared to put themselves out there. Risk that is not real. I've seen real risk. It's death. It's getting to the end of your life and having regret that is risk to me. It is risky to not go after everything that. I get the idea. For the last five months, I've been traveling the world with no address, and every time people hear what I'm doing, I'm bouncing Airbnb to Airbnb, week to week, month to month. They go, that's crazy. I could never do that. No, you're crazy, because you're never going to do that. And I'm going to get to the end of my life and go, how cool was that that I did that when I was 28 and I got to see the world, make so many friends, be on the Rich Summers podcast, all because I decided to get out there and move the around. Not only would I not be here if I was still in Atlanta, I wouldn't be here if I didn't come here on the Nomad Journey. That's how I found out about San Diego. Is that a risk? I had no address. I had no plans. There were days I was legitimately homeless. I don't know where I was going to sleep. But I found something. Yeah, you could argue to some people, that's risk. To me, risk means, if I'm not going to die and I want to do it, I'm going to fucking do it. Because I trust myself to find a way to pay the rent, to find a way to maintain safety, physiologically and psychologically. So I have a. You could say I have a high appetite for risk. But all I know is that one day I'm going to die and the things that I think are risky to do, I'm no longer going to have the luxury to marinate on doing them or not, because they're going to be taken from me. That's what risk means to me.
- [57:31]
A
Dude, you're getting me hyped right now, man. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to. I'm ready to take some more action.
- [57:36]
B
Let's go, baby.
- [57:36]
A
I always say months is the best way to measure time. Months is the best way to measure time. Not yours, but months. I'm 40. I'm going to be 41 this August. Average life expectancy for a male today is 77. I have about 432 months until I hit that age. And I don't know about you guys listening to this right now, but that's going to go by like that. And so if you are struggling right now to take action, you are struggling right now to bet on yourself. You are struggling right now to take risk. Ask yourself how many months and it's a quick and easy way to reframe and actually do the thing. Because what you said is true. The biggest risk is death.
- [58:27]
B
I did the math. I'm 28. I'll be 29 in August as well. My life, according to average male life expectancy is 36% over. 36%.
- [58:37]
A
Say that again. 36 over is what.
- [58:40]
B
I'm 28. So based on average male life expectancy in the United States, my life is about 36 over.
- [58:47]
A
Yeah, you're almost at the halfway point.
- [58:48]
B
Practically halfway. That's exactly what I said when I made a video. My life is almost halfway over. I'm over a third of the way done with this ride. If I'm lucky, I'm average. My dad died at 71. My male life expectancy, 74. He didn't think he was going to go. He was supposed to retire and ride off into the sunset with my mom. This year was supposed to be his last year. He died January 19, 2025. He didn't know this was coming. He didn't know he'd have a blood clot that destroyed his entire liver and took away all of his agency. That could happen to me tomorrow. So I'm viewing my life as, oh, that's morbid. No, it's true. My life is practically halfway over and I could step out of this building with you today and get hit by a bus. And people say, like, that's cliche. It's cliche because it's true. And it's important to remember that one day we're gonna die and nobody will remember our names. And a lot of people are living life at the expense of what others might think of them. And by the way, nobody's thinking of them. They're already too caught up in themselves. You're an extra in somebody else's movie. Start acting like you're the main character in yours. No, Chris Williamson says if you're the main. If you were watching a movie of your own life, what would the audience be screaming at the screen for you to do right now? Do that.
- [60:02]
A
That's so good. That's so good. Michael Smoko, I appreciate you coming on, my man. So much game, so much value. Where can the folks get in touch with you if they want to learn more?
- [60:11]
B
Yeah, man. Thank you, brother. My username across the board, all socials, Tik tok, Instagram is, YouTube is higher up Wellness. I host a podcast, the Higher Up Podcast, on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and I'm doing 15 seminars on topics just like this this December across.
- [60:23]
A
We're gonna sell those out.
- [60:24]
B
Yeah, man. Going to sell them out.
- [60:26]
A
Where can people learn about the seminars that they want to go link in?
- [60:28]
B
My bio on Instagram and TikTok.
- [60:30]
A
There it is. He is. Michael Smoke. I'm Rich Summers, listeners. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Peace.