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The Rich Somers Report
The A–Z Guide to Running Profitable Paid Ads in 2026 | Lindsay Stockall E492
00:55:33
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- [00:00]
A
It sucks when, you know, business owners come to me, they're just like, oh yeah, no, I've run ads in the, in the past and they don't work. And then we get in and look under the hood and seeing what has been set up by past national agencies, you're just like, oh my gosh, you just blew through so much money. And it's not just your money, it's your time. Your time is money, right? So it's like you've spent time onboarding, you've spent time with this partner, reviewing the reports, having your weekly or monthly calls, and it's like your time is money. So it's like you've lost investment in your time, you've lost investment in your marketing budget and you've now you're just like pissed and you don't even want to run ads anymore. Cause you're like, they just don't work.
- [00:40]
B
Welcome to the Rich Drummers report where we talk real estate, business and wealth building, all while keeping it real. No fluff, no bs. I hope that you enjoy the show. All right, guys, today I got someone who is an expert in the paid ad space, helping business owners like you scale their business through paid ads, marketing, all that good stuff. I got the founder and CEO of Stockholm Co. In the building, Lindsey Stockholm. Welcome to the show.
- [01:12]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [01:14]
B
Appreciate you coming on. And man, I'm so excited. You were just at our yacht workshop hanging out with us last week and we were born and raised having dinner. You worked out with Sam Gaudette and I and some of our members at compound. Yacht workshop was great. And now you're back and we're going to talk a lot of shop today.
- [01:30]
A
We're going to talk a lot of shop. And I'm not in my Walmart outfit today for the, the lift.
- [01:35]
B
You remember that our, that our AI concierge, Brooklyn helped you?
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A
She did.
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B
She did.
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A
Shout out to Brooklyn.
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B
Yeah. You made it to the gym though.
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A
Yeah, I did. That was great. Thank you for having me.
- [01:43]
B
That's good. So. So, Lindsay, you know, I think a lot of people say they know how to run paid ads. And one thing I've learned as a business owner, as a real estate investor is a lot of people that say they know how to run paid ads. 90% of them don't really know how to run paid ads. There's a, there is a science to it. There is an art to it. You know, you're getting an average 6x return on ad spend across all of your clients. What is the secret to running paid ads successfully.
- [02:10]
A
So if you look at paid ads, the platforms make it extremely easy for anyone who owns a computer or an iPhone to hit go, to hit boost, to hit a smart campaign. On Google, it's the same thing as a photographer, right? Anyone can go and buy a camera, but the real skill is in the operator behind it, the bus driver. Right. So what makes us different is we build a full acquisition strategy before we even touch the platform. So we understand, we want to understand your business, we want to understand your offers, your unique selling proposition, the full positioning of it and who your clientele is. Before we even hit go on meta or hit go on Google, you might come to me and be like, hey, Lindsay, I want you to run my meta ads first. Be like, rich, do we know meta works? We don't yet. So let's do a full strategy build first to make sure that meta is the smartest build for you. So that's one of the things that we do that separates us from any other ads manager before we even hit go at the platform level.
- [03:09]
B
And by the way, if you're listening right now, you know, I think, at least for me, I, you know, learning how to run paid ads is not my highest and best use and it shouldn't be your highest and best use either. And it's not a good return on your time to go figure out how to do it. To me it's a, it's a foreign language, you know, setting up pixels and all this sort of stuff. I know what some of the, the metrics mean, you know, the KPIs, the numbers that you're going to look at, which we're going to get into here. But all the detailed stuff, to me it's a, it's like, it's like learning how to speak Japanese. I don't know how to do it. And looking at the pixel and all this sort of stuff, it's a foreign language to me.
- [03:43]
A
Yeah, and that's, I think that's like, that's a really good point too because, you know, we've inherited clients from national agencies and they're being sent these reports that are 20 pages long, like a 20 page PDF of screen grabs from the platform marketing lingo that goes completely over the client's head. You as the business owner, I don't, you don't have time to go through a 20 page report. You just want to know, are these making money for me? Yes or no? Right. Very, very, very simple, very straightforward.
- [04:09]
B
Yeah. Now I think on the flip side, you know why it's important to work with someone that knows what they're doing. And again, 90% of people that, that say they know how to run paid ads don't. And it's really the 9010 rule. And I think you could apply that with any sector within business or real estate, even fitness. It's like 10% of the people are actually doing the thing and getting 90% of the business. The other 90% are competing for the bottom 10%. And I think it's the same thing with the ad stuff, but it's the one space to where it's like playing poker. You go to the casino, go to the card room, you know, yeah, you got the option, you got the, the chance to make money, but you can also lose money really quickly if, if you don't know what you're doing. And so that's why I think with, with the ad space, it's very crucial that you work with someone that's done it before at a high level and knows what they're doing.
- [04:55]
A
And I think that's a really good analogy too, like using poker in correlation to ads. Right. Because sometimes when we talk to business owners and brands, they see ad spend as a line on their profit. Profit in line or. I'm so sorry. Yeah, their P. L. Yeah, it's a market. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's an expense. But really what we do is we show them like, no, this is an investment for your business that's actually meant to drive revenue. It's a revenue driver, it's not an expense. But if you have a shitty operator behind your platform. Yeah, it's going to just be an expense on your P and L. Yep.
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B
So which platforms do you run paid ads for your clients and which platforms are you seeing the most success on?
- [05:37]
A
So we're seeing the most success right now on Meta and Google. We also run ads for our clients on LinkedIn, Pinterest and TikTok. We just see the highest return on Meta and Google for our clients, the ones that we work with.
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B
Are there certain businesses that should be on Meta and certain that should be on Google, or would you say that a lot of businesses should be on both?
- [05:58]
A
Totally depends on what we find out in the, in our acquisition strategy. Because the platforms work differently. Right. So one of the big reasons why you need a strategic operator behind the bus building your strategy specifically on Google. Because we don't know what the search volume is. Right. We don't know what the search volume is. And the search volume will dictate your ad spend. Really? Okay, absolutely.
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B
So break that down.
- [06:21]
A
So it's like an auction, right? The more competitive the space is, the higher it's going to be, the higher your cost per click is going to be. So what we want to identify is first, is there actual search volume on Google, yes or no? If there isn't, we're not going to run ads there because you're just wasting money that's going to be converting organically anyways.
- [06:39]
B
We're like, we're not going to do that anyways.
- [06:41]
A
Yeah, we're not going to do it. Or you're going to get an ads partner. Ads partner who's going to be like, yeah, we're going to crush it on Google for you. Because we've seen this as well. And then we get the reports back, we're like, well, there's no search volume. So you're literally just paying for these terms that you don't need to be paying for. And you're getting an inflated return on ad spend because that would have happened naturally.
- [06:59]
B
Now, when you say search volume is a search volume on Google to your specific company or just to your niche
- [07:04]
A
in that market, that's a great question. So what we look at first in our acquisition strategy is your brand. So what's the brand? What's the volume? Search volume on your brand and similar words related to your brand, your competitors. And then also we call it a generic campaign. So that's, you know, searches, searches related to your products, your services that someone might be searching in relation to your brand. So we look at those three pillars first and then look at what the keyword search volume is on the preliminary set of keywords that dictates the budget based on what we're seeing in our Google Ads budget budget tool that we have. Then the secret sauce is not set it and forget it, right? Because you're probably like, well, how do we know if this is going to work? Well, this is based on the strategy and the research that we've built. But we are going to optimize your campaign every week to make sure that, you know, our original strategy is working. If not, we're going to pivot, make adjustments, and ensure that we're continually moving the needle forward where a lot of other ad agencies set it and forget it. They'll be like, cool, this is what we thought originally. We're going to check back in 30, 60, 90 days.
- [08:11]
B
Damn, that's crazy.
- [08:12]
A
You do not want to do that. It's 30, 60, 90 days, bananas. Because you get a report 30 days later and you're like, oh shit, I just spent all this money on management, all this money on ads, and I got goose eggs like I got nothing. And working on the corporate side of the bus for so long before I started the agency, that was one of the reasons why, is because I would get these vanity metrics and vanity, like reach impressions, click through rate. It's like, well, is this making me money or not? Or making, you know, making the business money or not? And that's what we want to do. And we need a partner who's going to actually do that and partner with us to ensure every week they're optimizing to make sure that I'm just not wasting ad spend regardless of how small or how big your budget is.
- [08:51]
B
So I imagine that that search, what did you call that search on, on,
- [08:55]
A
on Google, like your keyword search.
- [08:58]
B
Yeah. You're like, hey, we're going to do a discovery and see how many times people are actually googling your industry.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah, so we do. That's part of our acquisition strategy.
- [09:05]
B
Got it.
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A
So we'll look at your brand, your competitors, and then a generic and see what the keyword search volume is. I think that's what you're.
- [09:12]
B
Yeah, that's what I was alluding to. And so thank you, by the way. And so I can imagine it's also important in like the sense of season. Right. So for example, if you had my buddy Champagne Dave, he owns Champaign Yacht Charters, as I imagine he probably gets a lot of people in the warmer months, maybe May through September, maybe even March, April, a ton of people, high volume people searching for yacht charters in San Diego where in December, January, February, it's probably a huge drop off. And so you might say from that, let's go. We're going to ramp up your, your paid ad spend in the, in the higher search months, is that right?
- [09:46]
A
I wouldn't say ramp up. I would say meet the volume where it's at.
- [09:51]
B
Okay.
- [09:52]
A
So we'd have to ramp up as an ad spend, you know, because it's. And we would look at Google and look at the search volume and say, you know, there's, there's more searches and there's more people bidding on those, those keywords. So that's two things. I don't know. Just to clarify. It's the search volume and the competitiveness. Competitiveness on that search volume. Right. So the volume might be going up and if the competition is going up, then you're going to have to spend more. But if the volume is going up and there's not so much competition. That's when you really want to cash in on it. And then on the off months, which you and I kind of chatted about a little bit, we build a wait list so we're not just in market when the market is hot. Right. We want to build that wait list on meta so that when you are in market, we hit go on an email campaign with the intention of converting all those leads that we collected outside of market. And then Google is doing its thing when people are actively searching for that, for that service.
- [10:50]
B
That's really good.
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A
So for your. For your buddy on his yacht, that's what. That's what I would recommend as an initial piece.
- [10:55]
B
Got it. That's really good. So what exactly is a pixel? Cause I know you guys, a lot of, you know, marketing folks are talking about a pixel, setting up the pixel correctly. What does a pixel mean? I never understood what that meant.
- [11:10]
A
A pixel. I'm gonna get you a shirt that says, what is a pixel? A pixel is a piece of code that can go on your website. We like to add it to your Google Tag manager, and then we add the Google Tag manager to your website. So the pixel is just a little bit of code that basically collects your audience's data, is what it does. So that we can do really good retargeting campaigns. We can attribute purchases, leads, traffic to various campaigns.
- [11:39]
B
Okay, that makes sense.
- [11:40]
A
That's what a pixel is. Think of it just like a small little piece of code that you own, because that's another big piece as well. When you are looking to hire an ads manager or you have an ads manager, you want to make sure that you own your pixel. Because if something goes off with your agency or your ad partner and they own the pixel and their ads manager, you're like, shit out of luck because you don't own it. Right. So then all of that data, they can grant you partner access, but you don't own it. So owning your pixel would be like, absolutely critical. So you own your data.
- [12:13]
B
Yeah. And so one of the things I've kind of learned with in regards to the pixel is like, we don't want to look at people that are clicking the ad or going to your lead form. We want to actually, like, study the actual person and who is. Who are the people that are actually buying your offer and then use that information to source and put these ads in front of the right people. Is that accurate?
- [12:33]
A
Absolutely. So a few things that we look at, especially on the early stages, you know, click through rate cost per click, impressions reach. Those do paint a picture. But what we're really focused on, if we're running a lead gen campaign for your yacht, we want to know how many leads we had, what the cost per lead is and what the conversion is. So working with your sales team and understand what, what, like what happened with these leads, how many converted and why didn't they. And then finalize our. Or optimize our campaigns based on what we're seeing when we're talking to your sales department. So that's like piece number one. I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought there. I went down a rabbit hole.
- [13:10]
B
Yeah. So I was just, Yeah, I was just saying, like, you know, obviously you want to, you want to optimize for the actual people that are buying the offer, not just the people that are going to the landing page or clicking the ad.
- [13:19]
A
Absolutely. And one thing too is, is I was sorry, I lost my train of thought. I went down there on the landing page itself. That's something that we do work with our clients on because sometimes we, or I shouldn't say sometimes, you know, we can get the right people to the page, but the page is causing the right people to drop off.
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B
Okay.
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A
Which is a conversion piece. So we need to identify why.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Right. So that's one piece as well. So, you know, getting the traffic to the page is one thing, but it's converting it that's the hard piece. So most agencies will report on impressions reach, click the rate cost per click, and they'll leave the conversion. Oh, it's your sales team.
- [13:55]
B
Yeah.
- [13:55]
A
It's like, well, no, the quality of the traffic may be shit. Right. Like, it's just not, it's not converting because you're targeting an unqualified audience or you're clickbaiting them with a message that's getting them to, you know, to land on the landing page. You're like, whoa, this isn't even remotely close to what I was thinking. Right. So it's, it's a science and understanding. Is it a qualified audience and. Or is it a landing page conversion issue? Because we can see that on Google. Right. Because we're very specific in the keywords that we're targeting. So if someone's clicking, you know, yacht charter, they're landing on a yacht charter, that's like a pretty qualified individual. So why aren't they converting? Right. And, and really getting to the psychology and the sales metrics behind why. Right. Maybe, you know, talking to your sales teams. Yeah. You know, our ideal customer Takes a few times. Right. Like they need a few different touch points. Cool. Let's get some really strong retargeting campaigns on meta to support our Google search. So if they land on the page, they don't take action. We're going to hit them with some really cool videos that you're very cool creative team. But nobody heard me there. He's still scrolling.
- [15:04]
B
Oscar's doing marketing research. He's studying the pixel.
- [15:08]
A
Exactly. So creating some really killer campaigns to then get them to incentivize to come back. If they don't fill out the form, maybe we send them to a different form to book a call. Right. Like, there's lots of ways that we can do it. But just sending, you know, a linear traffic, you know, it's just. That's just not how you do it anymore. People are smarter, so you have to meet them where they're at and create a very strategic acquisition strategy to get them to convert.
- [15:34]
B
Yeah. And, you know, I think testing the different pieces of the funnel is important. So we haven't ran, we haven't run paid ads in quite some time. But last year, as I mentioned on Friday, like, there was a season where we were going pro ham on this paid ads funnel to a. It was basically, we're running paid ads on meta to a free weekly webinar targeting Airbnb investors that wanted to get into the boutique hotel game so they could, you know, eventually get onto a book haul and then they would join our boutique hotel investing community. And so, you know, we know that organic webinars work great, but we're like, okay, how can we master this funnel to where we run a paid ads to a weekly webinar? And then we have this funnel, you know, going on. And so one of the things we tested a bunch of stuff. We went ham and ham and ham. And sometimes you mentioned landing pages. Then the landing page is so important because we would run the same creative and people click the ad to go to the landing page. And then this would be a registration for them to get onto the free webinar. And we would test different, like banners on this landing page. And that banner was so important because one of them, we were getting a bunch of broke people onto the webinars. And because I always get on in the front of the webinar, I want to know the quality of the room. And so I'm like, I'm like, tell me what you guys currently own in the real estate game. And people are like, oh, looking to do their first deal. And I'm like, this is not the right room because that's. We don't have people join that have never done a real estate deal. It's not. It's not a beginner's thing, buying a hotel. And so we ideally wanted to get people that have bought at least two or three Airbnbs and they want to do their first hotel. That's. That's the ideal avatar. Right. And so I'm like, why do we keep getting all these, like, broke people on these calls? And so our banner was how to do. How to buy a boutique hotel without using any of your own money. And so then. Yeah, that you're basically talking to people that don't have any money, Right?
- [17:22]
A
Yep.
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B
And so when we switched.
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A
Interesting.
- [17:24]
B
Yeah, we switched that banner to Airbnb verse boutique hotels, and as a photo of me pointing at one of our hotels. So it's Airbnb versus boutique hotels. And so now we're talking to Airbnb owners. And so that simple switch in the banner is the same creative. It was the same landing page. We just switched the banner on the landing page. And all of a sudden we started getting all these Airbnb investors on our call. I'm warming them up, and all of a sudden everyone's like, oh, I own three Airbnbs. I own eight Airbnbs. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it was just a banner. And so sometimes these small, little subtle tweaks is like, it's just calling out the right people.
- [17:55]
A
And that's just positioning, which, you know, to you, the client. Yeah, we're just making a switch on a landing page. But to the marketer, it's like, that's full strategy. Right. It's like if you're calling out someone, you know, who's basically looking for, you know, a unit without using your money, it's like, yeah, of course you're going to attract someone who doesn't have, you know, who isn't liquid. But when you switch the positioning and then what you're doing then is you're. You're signaling back to meta that this is working. Find more people like this. Right. So your conversion rate on your landing page might have dropped down, but you're getting a higher level of quality.
- [18:28]
B
Yes, Right. Which is what we want.
- [18:30]
A
Huge.
- [18:30]
B
Yes, huge.
- [18:31]
A
And the webinar game, I mean, we see it like there's, you know, marketing gurus. I'm using air quotes a lot here. It's like webinar games are dead. Live launch method is dead. It's like, it is not like live webinars. Create social proof, create connection. So you can do that one to many. Exactly what you guys were doing. Like that's like killer.
- [18:47]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So anyways, that was kind of my experience running paid ads with that funnel. And it was, it was like, you know, boom, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. But we worked with a bunch of, you know, people that say they know how to run paid ads, but not really. And then we finally got on with someone that, that, you know, had actually done the thing and it was like night and day. That's why, you know, if you're listening to this, you got to work with people that know what they're doing. Go work with people like Lindsay and
- [19:12]
A
ask the right, ask the right questions.
- [19:14]
B
And ask the right questions.
- [19:15]
A
So I actually.
- [19:15]
B
What are the right questions?
- [19:16]
A
So I have a cheat sheet. 7 questions to ask your ads manager, your current ads manager, and anyone's that you're interviewing to make sure that they actually know what they're talking about and can actually generate you results. So any listener out there, I want to offer it free to anyone listening. Yeah. So just shoot me a DM on Instagram Lindsay Stockall the word Summers and I'll get it right into your inbox for you.
- [19:38]
B
I love it. I love it. That's huge. That's huge. And, and thank you for doing that by the way. For the listeners.
- [19:43]
A
I have a question.
- [19:43]
B
Yeah, go ahead, question.
- [19:44]
A
What were your, do you know what your conversion rates were on your webinar, like on your landing page and then on like how many people showed up and then how many people actually chose?
- [19:54]
B
Yeah, I don't remember like specifically at the top, but I can give you the high level numbers. So cost per lead, I think I want to say on average it was between like 100 to like 200 cost per lead. And then our show rate would be anywhere in that. We would track it every single week so we have the number somewhere. But the show rate would be kind of in that 30, 25 to like 35% range. When we go organic, we get like a lot. We get like, we get 60 to 75.
- [20:22]
A
Of course, of course.
- [20:23]
B
But this is paid and so it be a little bit of drop off there. But that's kind of on average what it looked like. And then, oh, oh, the people that showed we would get about 15 to 20% to a book call and that was kind of on average. And then we run it to like an A list calendar and like a B list calendar based on how they answer the qualifying question then some, some people would just get DQ'd if they didn't have money, they weren't willing to invest in themselves or they didn't own any real estate, they would get DQ'd and we just send them a YouTube video or something like that. And so then from there they would, they would get on with the salesperson and, and kind of go down the funnel.
- [20:58]
A
Amazing.
- [20:59]
B
That's kind of how it works.
- [20:59]
A
Amazing. That sounds like a really solid offer. Because like I was curious.
- [21:03]
B
Yeah.
- [21:04]
A
Because the cost per lead is very interesting. Cause when you throw a hundred, I think you said like what, a hundred to two hundred cost per lead. Ish. Some businesses may say, wow, that's really high.
- [21:12]
B
And some might say that's really good.
- [21:13]
A
That's really good. It all depends on your conversion from lead to sale and then what that offer is.
- [21:19]
B
Yes, 100%.
- [21:20]
A
That is the biggest thing.
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B
So if you're selling a hundred thousand dollars offer, you know, $200 cost per lead, that's, that's huge.
- [21:27]
A
It's huge. And if you have a strong conversion rate, your return on ad spend is going to be wild. So that is definitely something you want to ask your ads expert. And again, this is one of the things that's in, you know, seven question guide is get them to walk you through the profitability model and if they can't run those simple numbers and tell you that, you know, this offer is, can be profitable run.
- [21:49]
B
That's really good. What is the profitability model?
- [21:51]
A
It all depends on the business.
- [21:53]
B
Okay.
- [21:54]
A
Right. So I would ask you to say, rich, what is the cost of the membership? Right. What's the cost of the membership that you're selling into? What is your cost per acquisition? So how much are you willing to spend? Spend to make that one sale? What is your conversion rate on your funnel? So landing page to opt in, what is that? How from opt in to show up. Right. Show up rate to booked call and then book call to purchase. Once I have all of those numbers, we then work back and come up with a profitability model that makes sense for your business. And I can say, yes, we can actually do this or no, this is impossible based on, you know, meta or Google, whatever we're running the ads on. But it's my goal as your ads manager to find a way to make this profitable for you and have a sense of integrity to share that with you. Okay. We actually need to get you where you need, we need X amount of leads at a cost per lead of X so we have to spend Y to get that. Or this doesn't make sense, Right. Specifically, like if you look on Google for example, right, you have, you know, a business who's in growth mode, they have X amount of marketing dollars and they're competing against, you know, national or enterprise level international businesses with multimillion dollar a month ad budgets. I was like you, we can't compete here. So this does not make sense to run Google Ads. You thought you wanted to. We did the research. It doesn't make sense from a profitability perspective. Meta does. And that's the difference with working with someone who knows what they're doing.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. Hey guys, real quick. If you are getting value from this show, it would mean the world to me if you take two seconds and drop a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, that one small simple action is the only way this podcast grows. And more importantly, it might help another entrepreneur or real estate investor find exactly what they need. I read them, I appreciate them. All right, now back to the show. And then how do you determine if it's, if it's scalable, like obviously does this cost per lead make sense? We can run the playbook, but then how do you determine it's really like scalable in terms of like really dialing up the ad spend?
- [23:59]
A
Like if you can turn up.
- [24:00]
B
Yeah. And like how do you know what a sweet spot is and how do you know when you stop dialing up the ad spend?
- [24:05]
A
So we optimize our clients campaigns weekly, but if you're in market, meaning you're doing weekly webinars and we're like, we consider that a live launch. I'm optimizing me and my team every single day. We're looking at your ad platform because we have a short window, we have seven days, right. To get you onto these webinars. So we're optimizing every day to see what the ads are doing. Right, because you can look at your click through rate, your cost per click. Usually if your click through rate starts dropping and your cost per click starts going up and we see a correlation with your frequency, which is how many times you've seen the ad, then we're like, ooh, we've saturated this audience. But that saturation could be due to, to create a fatigue. Yeah, right. So it's like they've seen these ads too many times. We now have to reposition the same
- [24:53]
B
offer and you'll start to see the cost per lead creep up exactly so
- [24:57]
A
it's like all of those. So that's why it's like those vanity metrics aren't. We don't throw them out, like throw the baby out with the bathwater. They play a part into understanding why the cost per lead is going up. And we're like, okay, this audience converted, right. We don't know if it's because we've, you know, completely drained the bucket on it. Usually we look at audience size, right? That's one of the tellers if we can actually scale it or not. And the way that meta specifically is working now, the whole interest targeting is kind of out the. Out the door. Really totally out the door.
- [25:31]
B
I mean, so you can't just target people that are like, oh, these people are into fitness. We're going to target them.
- [25:35]
A
So you can. But that's one of the outdated models. Models of doing it.
- [25:40]
B
That's the new way.
- [25:41]
A
So optimizing for landing page outdated, interest targeting outdated vanity metrics, reporting outdated, no attribution tracking outdated and set it, forget it. Campaign management is completely outdated. So Meta still allows you to do interest targeting. Absolutely. And that's one of the things where you can tell a junior beginner ad expert with someone who has been with the platform forever. Doing interest targeting is the old way of doing audience segmentation. You can still test it and see, but it's really the broader using their advantage models, which seems crazy explaining this to a business owner. But what is now signaling meta's targeting is what's in your ad copy and what's in your video. Think of it like SEO, right? So if you have, if you're able to position yourself correctly in the ad copy, which is what we do in your script, which is what we do, how you edit your videos, the graphics you do, which we do for you, then that tells meta who should be interested. And if you're getting an uninter disqualified, as you say, DQ audience, it's most likely your positioning is just off in your ad copy. But that's. It makes it harder now. So meta has made it easier. I'm using a lot of air quotes in the episode.
- [27:01]
B
I love it in the microwave. Keep them rolling, keep em rolling.
- [27:03]
A
So meta's made it easier for anyone to go on and run an ad. Right. Because you can do interest targeting, you can exclude audiences. It's crazy. It's great.
- [27:12]
B
Easier to run an ad, but they don't make it easy to do it at a high level.
- [27:16]
A
No, because you have to know how to position a product.
- [27:19]
B
Right.
- [27:19]
A
And really Understand psychology behind selling, pairing marketing and sales with the expert expertise of the platform to make or go.
- [27:27]
B
It's the most complex, intricate. And I understand, I think, I feel like I do understand social media pretty high level. Um, but I would say when it comes to running ads on Meta, that is probably the most complex foreign language type of thing that I've ever seen. Like, it is, they do not make that for beginners. It is. That's why I'm saying, like, don't. If you're listening, do not try to run paid ads on yourself. Don't try to just go with whoever says they know how to run them. Like, you got to go with an expert. Go with someone like Lindsey that actually knows what they're doing because for one, they're going to save you a lot of money. But number two, going to give you the best chance and best position to go make a lot of money.
- [28:02]
A
Because that's what I, I hate it so much. And it really, like, it sucks when, you know, business owners come to me, they're just like, oh yeah, no, I've run ads in the, in the past and they don't work. And then we get in and look under the hood during the strategy because we'll always do the strategy first. Because I never want to sign a 612 month agreement with a client that it's like, this is just not profitable for you, right? So we always do the strategy first. And looking under the hood and seeing what has been set up by past national agencies, you're just like, oh my gosh, you just blew through so much money. And it's not just your money, it's your time. Your time is money, right? So it's like you've spent time onboarding, you've spent time with this partner, reviewing the reports, having your weekly or monthly calls, and it's like, your time is money. So it's like you've lost investment in your time, you've lost investment in your marketing budget and you've now you're just like pissed and you don't even want to run ads anymore because, like, they just don't work.
- [28:55]
B
There was weeks where we were trying to perfect this funnel and there was weeks where because we would, we would have a Monday meeting, basically we ran like a little L10 for everyone that was touching the funnel. So our paid ads guy would come on, our setters would come on, our closer would come on, our marketing director, Megan would come on. And so we would just like literally go through this funnel and we would talk about, you know all the KPIs, all the metrics from the previous week. What was the success of the webinar, what was our show rate, what was our cost per lead, how many we convert, what was the cash collected, gross sales, all that sort of stuff. And what was the roas? And then, and then we would like, okay, be like, all right, what are we going to tweak now? And you know, you really only tweaking one thing at a time. You can't just tweak five things because then, then you don't know which one it was. Right? And so it's like one tweak and then it's like, all right, let's go run the playbook again this week. And you know, it was, there was some weeks where we lost money. You know, you're like, damn. Like, all that time and energy and these webinars, it's like you're performing. It's like a whole performance. You're entertaining. It's like, it's a lot. And I would do them on Tuesdays. And so it was like, you know, running three podcasts, interviews in the morning, running through my community calls. Those are all kind of like speaking performance as well, engagements. And then, and then I'm coming on this webinar and that's the one where I got to bring the most energy. And so it was when you go through all that and then you lose money, it's like, oh, man. Like, it, it stings a little bit. So that's why I said, work with someone that knows what they're doing, because it's going to save you a lot of headaches, a lot of time. A lot of time and a lot of money.
- [30:23]
A
I like, ask what type of return on ad spend or success stories that, you know, your ads manager, potential ad manager has been able to do, like, for us across our client base, on average, six times return on ad spend. So for every dollar you spend, we made our clients six times back. Attribution tracking. What does that look like? As I said, you know, we, we in our. We worked with a client who was working with a national agency, said attribution was impossible for their hotel. We unlocked it within a week, and now we're able to prove attribution. We're getting hotel bookings at less than $3 a booking at a return on ad spend of 114.
- [31:00]
B
Damn.
- [31:01]
A
Like, it's crazy. So someone who knows their stats and can speak to that confidently, that's when you know you're working with someone who has experience driving and understanding the attribution, a data expert on the team to support that. Because last thing you want to do, too, is on your Monday call is have someone come to the table and just be like, yeah, you got X amount of leads, and that's it. They have no strategic vision, no understanding why they can't follow the data and understand your deal stages. And then free to show up every Tuesday on a webinar and then lose money. You're just like, oh, my God. Like, it's like, this is frustrating. It's like, I don't want to do this anymore.
- [31:34]
B
There was one. There was one webinar. This just came to mind where we can't. We, like, literally, I told the team, I said, like, people were joining the webinar and something was dropped. I forgot what was dropped. Like, something didn't happen in the funnel. And so we had this webinar and we had all these people registered. I think we had, like, I don't know, we probably had close to 8 or 900 registered for the webinar. And something didn't happen. I forgot what it was. And so, you know, we always give, like, we usually start five minutes after the start time, and that's when I'll jump in. But I remember it was like, we screwed up something, and we found out right before the webinar, and it was like two minutes, two minutes after the start time. And the team's, like, looking to see how many people are joining. There's only, like, 20 people on the call. And I'm like, this is a lot of energy to get on these webinars for 20 people. Yeah. And all that work and all the, like, cost per lead, all the. All the ad spend and, you know, almost a thousand register. We got like 15, 20 people on
- [32:29]
A
the call at a hundred dollars a lead.
- [32:30]
B
Yeah. And I remember I was like. So I was so, like, discouraged and frustrated. I was like, I'm not running the webinar. So I got on the webinar and I said, hey, guys, I'm really sorry, but we screwed up something on our end. I said, It's 100% on me. But I said, we're going to be postponing this webinar. We're going to run the same one next week, same time. And for any of you guys on this webinar, as a special thank you, drop an email to this email address, and if you show up next week, we'll give you a special something amazing. I forget what it was, but we gave him a little. A little Throw in for the ones that came back. But I was like, I'm not running because it takes that much energy. And I'm like, I'm not running it.
- [33:10]
A
And you think if, it's like, if you have 20 people show up.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah. And I was trying to prove a point, too.
- [33:14]
A
And you're convinced. Yeah, fair. Yeah, fair, fair. But if you look at the conversion rates, like, that's probably not even worth your time to sit there for an hour and bring that level of energy.
- [33:24]
B
No, it's not. And that's another thing. When, when you're getting in the webinar game, at least as the creator, like, when you show up and there's a lot of people on the webinar, like, you're going to bring your.
- [33:34]
A
It's your energy, a whole different energy,
- [33:36]
B
and you're going to perform at a much higher level and the conversion is going to be way higher. But when you get on and there's like, not many people on and you're like, you're not going to bring the right energy. So that's why it's better to not.
- [33:47]
A
You're like, when's dinner time? You're just like, I just, I just would rather not.
- [33:50]
B
Yes.
- [33:50]
A
Be here. But I think to. What was. So why your webinars were so successful is because you're so good at sales, relationships, connecting. Like, you had a whole format. Remember we talked through it when we were on the boat last week. Right. Like the welcome, getting people engaged, having a giveaway at the end. Like, it's one thing to have a incredible, incredibly strong funnel, great lead generation, great retargeting. But if you're flopping on the webinar, it doesn't even like, it's like, you have to come prepared and understand how to sell live on a webinar, when to inject your offer, when to have someone, you know who's worked with you in the past, who's in the program join as well and, you know, giving validation for what you're speaking, like, yeah, I'm in the group. It's sick. Like, I did, you know, xy XYZ and investments. And yeah, like, it's like having all of that strategy is so important to go with your paid media as well.
- [34:44]
B
And, and the thing about the webinar funnel, and if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, my gosh, that sounds like a lot of work. Guys like, you don't, you don't have to do this webinar funnel. But I would say that Funnel is a very workload intensive and there's so many things that can go wrong. Like there's so many things that need to go right in order for someone to actually see the ad and then go to the landing page, register, get the, you know, warm up videos and welcome videos and like actually get the reminders and the link to actually join the emails. Then they gotta join and they gotta sit through the whole webinar, then they gotta do the call to action and then they actually have to go through the other warm up sequence, then get on the call and then actually buy the thing. Like that's a lots a lot of things that need to go right. And so if you're listening to this, it's like no, no, no, you don't need to do the webinar funnel. It is a playbook and it can be done, but it is a lot of work. But I think there's a lot of easier funnels. I'm sure you have a lot of clients that have way simpler funnels that don't have so many things that can go wrong and you know, just rely on an expert like Lindsay, however set it up and, and, and I think there's a lot of funnels that are way more hands off than what I'm alluding to. Is that, is that accurate?
- [35:49]
A
Yes. And it rich is just like please don't tell me to suggest or please don't suggest me to do a weekly webinar anymore. Cause there's ways that you can do it. You can go live once a month or once a quarter. Right. And then perfect that as an evergreen.
- [36:03]
B
Yeah, that's another thing.
- [36:04]
A
I mean the consumer knows when something is live and when something is evergreen and your lives are always gonna perform stronger. But if you have a killer converting webinar, put it on evergreen. And evergreen means you're basically replaying that and you run a lead generation campaign. They can then opt in to your webinar, watch it, record it and then sell. But my advice there is, it depends on how high ticket the service is. If you're asking people for tens of thousands of dollars, you need more touch points and reassurance. Right. Like an evergreen piece is, you know, I don't want to say never say never, but I wouldn't feel confident running something of that high value to a freebie. You might have to have something in between the freebie and the paid offer. Right. Maybe it's a freebie to then a pre qualifying booked call with you or your sales team, maybe Brooklyn, who knows.
- [36:56]
B
And Some offers work great with a webinar and some offers, like, actually don't convert well with the webinar. They convert a lot better in the DM or just a simple call. The boutique hotel investing thing works great with the webinar because these are, these are a different type of buyer. This is a very analytical type of buyer where they want to see case studies, they want to see numbers, and like, think about all these different, like, layers. And there's a lot, see it, There's a lot that goes into it. Right. There's 150 things that, that go into, you know, buying a hotel. Right. It's, it's not, you know, a fitness offer where it's like, hey, move more, eat less, and we're going to lose weight. Like, it's very simple.
- [37:36]
A
Right.
- [37:36]
B
It's a lot.
- [37:37]
A
It's very different. Yeah.
- [37:38]
B
And so with certain offers, and that's why I say test stuff. Very important test stuff. And we've tested different things with different offers. And we, we, we found with the boutique hotel messing offer, the webinar is the most effective. But with like, other offers, webinar can't be, is not effective. And so, you know, I'm a big fan of just testing stuff, see what works and doesn't work. And then, you know, working with someone like you is, I think is going to be important because you're going to do a lot of the testing for them and we're going to see pretty quickly what works and doesn't work in real time.
- [38:09]
A
But I think too, like, you just unlocked like a big aha for the audience too. Like, you know, your buyer's Persona through and through.
- [38:16]
B
Yeah.
- [38:16]
A
Cause it was you. Yeah, right. Like, it was like, you know, your buyer's Persona, you know what makes them tick, you know what their objections are, you know what their pain points are, you know what they want to see. So knowing your customer first so that when you bring on an ads partner, they can help you. Right. They can suggest. Yeah, a live makes sense or no, it doesn't. Do, you know, this freebie into a, into a call to then into something else. Like, it all depends on how your buyers perform and what their pain points are. If you're speaking to a very analytical person, you're going to need that high touch. But that high touch means that the offer has to be high value as well to make up for your time.
- [38:55]
B
That's really good. I'm curious, when you're running paid ads, there's a way to do it to where you're just targeting, targeting your followers on Instagram or Facebook, Correct?
- [39:05]
A
Yes.
- [39:06]
B
And how do you know if it's better to run a paid ad campaign to a dm to maybe a setter or a mini chat in your dm or maybe an AI bot? Or is it better to run it to a landing page?
- [39:19]
A
I would test it. Every audience is different. Every audience is different because don't you
- [39:23]
B
feel like a lot of people will go to a landing page but they're not going to fill out the form versus if it's like a DM function, more people might be. It's a less, it's a smaller friction point.
- [39:35]
A
Absolutely.
- [39:35]
B
But then again, that's a lot of time required. Now you're going back and forth with these people versus if they fill out the form, they go to your landing page, fill out the form. That's a, that's a more qualified lead, most likely.
- [39:45]
A
Yeah, it depends. I mean, think of like the offer that I'm offering your audience right now.
- [39:49]
B
Okay.
- [39:49]
A
I'm saying direct message me on Instagram.
- [39:51]
B
Yes. You're not saying go felt.
- [39:53]
A
I'm not saying go fill out a lead form.
- [39:54]
B
Yeah.
- [39:55]
A
And I'm saying, you know, message me on Instagram because then I can build a connection with you.
- [39:58]
B
Yeah.
- [39:59]
A
Because I know that works best for me.
- [40:01]
B
Yeah. And by the way, guys, if you want to DM Lindsay, it's at Lindsay Stockholl. And what are you giving away a free what?
- [40:08]
A
Um, it's the seven questions to ask your current ads manager or an ads manager that you're interviewing to make sure that they actually know what they're doing and are qualified enough to run your ads.
- [40:16]
B
There you go. And just mentioned the podcast, mentioned Rich Hummers and she's gonna get you that to, that to you. Um, but you were saying you run this, you're running this offer in the dm. Okay.
- [40:25]
A
Because my goal is I want to get on a call with each person and talk through their business model. That's my end goal. So it all depends on your end goal. You brought up fitness coaches, fitness influencers. Running to the DM is a no brainer because you're going to communicate, you're going to sell probably what, a 1, 2, maybe $3,000 offer. Like, it's not a, it's, you know, still a decent price point, but not something like super high and crazy. But you test it because we don't know until we test. So you might have the DM running and then you might ab test that to a landing page and see what is the number of leads that come in. So your cost per lead and then who converts better on the landing page or the dm? That's a big piece of.
- [41:08]
B
And so you would run drip to both at the same time.
- [41:10]
A
Absolutely.
- [41:11]
B
And you'll see what the cost per lead is for both.
- [41:13]
A
We'd a b test it for a week or two or long enough to get, you know, at least a hundred leads on each side, depending on our ad spend of course. And then of those leads that came in through the landing page and that came in through the dm, how many converted and then what was the revenue generated from each one? And they'd be like, okay, this, this, this is an actually more profitable revenue like lane to go. Like as to your point, you might get someone who's more qualified who fills out a landing page because they're more intentional versus clicking a button on Instagram. Because you can see that with lead with lead gen forms. Right? Lead gen forms versus sending to an on like a landing page. Right. You're most likely going to get higher volume on the opt in on platform but you're going to get higher quality because someone's waiting for that landing page to load and adding in their details versus allowing Instagrams to autofill and they just hitting send. Because the amount of times that we've run those types of ads and the client on the back end says, you know, Susan said she didn't fill out the form. Well, Susan, you did fill out the form, but you just probably hit a button you didn't realize you hit for autofill and it called it a day. But again, we've also had it on the flip side where the on platform form is a crazy, crazy, crazy conversion.
- [42:30]
B
Really.
- [42:31]
A
So yeah, so it totally depends.
- [42:33]
B
Depends. Yeah.
- [42:33]
A
So we test, but we want to test fast because we want to test fast so that we can optimize faster and get you where you want to go. But if we're just like, okay, we're going to put all our eggs in this basket. You don't want to do that. Unless you already have proof of concept that this is working, then we're going to scale it.
- [42:48]
B
Yeah, I like it. That's really good. I feel like testing this stuff is kind of fun. We're testing something right now. We're always trying to drive more 5 star Google reviews at the hotels. And so what we just tweaked yesterday in the ask because we're getting a lot of people that are like, it's like, hey, like the AI, the AI Bot will ask like, hey, how's your experience rate? One to five? A lot of people are like, oh, it's five. This is great, this is great. But then like when we go to ask not a high, people are converting and actually dropping that on the Google link. And so you know what we just tweaked yesterday is we're going to run a monthly contest for all the guests that stay at all of our hotels to win a two night free stay to any of our hotels of their choice. And so now when the AI says, hey Lindsay, how's your stay one through five? And they're like, five, this was great, this was great. I enjoyed this. It's like, great. If you want to be entered to win a two free night stay at any of our hotels, go ahead and copy and paste this message onto this link and drop us a five star on Google and we'll enter you to win. And so we're going to test that. And so I think that's going to be a lot more successful.
- [43:48]
A
But that's, you're testing because you know your numbers, you know, people are responding and giving the number review, but they're dropping off and not actually taking the time to click and open. So you know what those conversion numbers are. And now you're going to be able to know what the conversion numbers are from the other one and then see which one is converting higher. Or you might have to do a phase three, right? Come up with this with an, with a potential other offer if it doesn't work. But that's like knowing your numbers and knowing that attribution tracking is killer because then you're empowered and you can make a better decision for your business and the investment that you're making.
- [44:20]
B
And then for all the travel influencers that go to the hotels throughout the month, instead of them running a new giveaway to their audience every single time, which is costly, especially with going to summer season where we're like, you know, it's busy. It's like they can all run that same giveaway to our landing page where we collect the email, we collect the phone number, we collect all the information they all entered to win the same giveaway. Now we're only giving away two free nights, but everyone can enter to win. And then on our email blast to all of our, our, our email list for each of the hotels, we can run that as a promo to them, like for the newsletter, and be like, hey, by the way, if you want to win two free nights to any of our hotels, you know Drop a five star based on, you know, assuming that you had a five star experience at, during your stay and you could be entered to win. And so we're going to run this obviously way to optimize it, all that sort of thing. But you know, this is not paid ad. But you know, it's, it's, it's similar as like we're testing a funnel.
- [45:14]
A
You know you're testing a funnel and you're being super strategic because I mean I built my business on Metta, right? So like we love Facebook, we love Instagram, we as business owners do not own our accounts, we do not own our follower list. So I love that you're driving off platform to collect information to build your own email list. I mean we do social media as well and our whole goal of an account is getting that follower into an owned media list. So I think that is kudos for you guys for doing that versus just driving to another follower because you're owning that and you could remarket to it a lot stronger one thing, and you may have already started doing this with your influencers, but you can do white label ads.
- [45:52]
B
What is that?
- [45:52]
A
So basically you're running an ad, right? So say the influencer creates a beautiful video like a walkthrough of, of hotels in Zindel, right? As I pronounce it properly, I stayed there last weekend. I can attribute it was a, or a test. It was a beautiful, beautiful hotel and shout out to Jeff for making it such a wonderful experience.
- [46:09]
B
Yeah, I love Jeff.
- [46:09]
A
But say you hire an influencer, go in and they take a beautiful experience video. You know, your beautiful entryway, the Billard's room, you know, the, the creativity of the interior design of each space, the neighborhood, right? They're creating a full beautiful experience video. We would then take that video that they're running, put an ad behind it from summer's capital, but target their exact audience so that their audience is actually going to be seeing that piece of content. But that's outside of a boost. This is very strategic. So the influencer has to give your business manager partner access to their Instagram and Facebook page, which then allows you to create an audience in Summer's capital based on their followers and who engage with their content. You can build lookalike audiences from that. Like it is the white labeling piece could really, really, really help you guys in increasing the ROI and distribution of that investment.
- [47:04]
B
That's really good. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. Yeah, there's so many cool different things that like you can do in the paid ad space and you know, obviously getting around the right people. I would say the game is about being in the right rooms. And you know, I think I get to talk to a lot of people on the pod, which is cool. But I rarely have people on that are experts in the paid ad space. So this has been a really cool conversation. Now if someone on here is like, hey, I want to, I want to start running paid ads. I've yet to run paid ads or I've never done it correctly. How do you come up and you actually help them with the creative? Right? Like coming up with the paid ad. How do, how do you come up with the best paid ad creative that's actually going to work like well, how do you know the best videos of like we should go spend our time shooting this versus shooting this.
- [47:46]
A
So we'll actually batch our clients ads. So we'll come up with like 6 to 8 to 10 to 12 depending on the scope of work. So that if I'm asking you rich, say you're my client. Right. I know your time is valuable. I cannot ask you every week to film videos for me. Like you're busy, your calendar stacks. So I'm like, cool. Here is a ton of various concepts based on our research. This is what we're seeing converting, right. And what we know works, you know, in your space film, you know, these, as I said 6 to 8 to 10 to 12 concepts. We're going to test three at a time so that we're constantly testing new creative but not asking you, the client to be filming every week, which you don't have time for. So it's a bit of a lift on your end if we want talking videos or experiential videos. But then we bank it and then we test three at a time because we don't want to test all 12 because we're not going to know what ad is converting best because of the way that meta is going to distribute that ad ad spend. So we're going to take the three best ones, test them. If they don't convert, put another one in and then take the best converting one and putting it into a separate campaign because we know that's a winner. Did that answer your question?
- [48:53]
B
Yeah. You're basically a B testing a bunch of stuff at scale and the more you test the, the higher the chances are that you're going to find one that's really good.
- [49:02]
A
Absolutely.
- [49:02]
B
Once you find the right one, then you double down on that one.
- [49:05]
A
Double down. And what is surprising to most of our clients who have never run paid ads before, or clients will be like, yeah, I'll just do the creative for you, and you just manage the ad. Is they're surprised to know that a traditional advertisement, like a billboard, for example, is not going to perform well on Meta. It could not. You know, it could, but the chances of it are very small because when people are on social, you know, organically, you don't want to be sold. You want to be consuming valuable content. So how can we make your offer educational or entertaining and really grab their attention to click through? Right. So there's a whole psychological, you know, sales science behind that, but it's truly understanding your buyer, your positioning, what makes them ticks, what their objections are, what they like in serving up creative to them specifically. But most of it does not look like an advertisement. It's not a highly polished piece of content. It looks organic to the platform.
- [50:01]
B
Yeah. And are there times where sometimes just a static post ad is going to perform better than a video?
- [50:06]
A
Yeah. So we, we test. Right. So we'll test B roll, talking head, various formats. So B roll would be like you working or walking through. We're doing ads for your boat, for example. Right. Maybe we're, you know, taking clips from past guests or, you know, content that Oscar has from past yacht workshop, putting it together and adding a voiceover on top or adding text on top. Then I'm going to have another one of you on the boat talking about it. Right. One of you, one of another one in your office talking about the boat from a business owner's perspective. Then we're going to do a graphic that looks like an ad because again, we're going to test it. We know it might not work, but it might. Right. And we don't know until we test it. We're also going to test a carousel graphic as well. So we're going to give everything a good go within the first week or two. We know what's working, what's not, because we're in there optimizing. We're not sending you a report at the end of the month and being like, oh, we're going to give it another 30 days and see, and we're going to scale what is working. So we have certain formats that we, that we will set up, figure out what the best converting format is and go from there. We have a client, for example, we were doing a ton of B roll and they were killing it. For whatever reason, it dropped off. And now we're doing all talking head with different conviction, hard Angle positioning. Like it's all about the marketing copy that we're adding onto it and the direction versus just someone going in and hitting click in the ads manager itself.
- [51:29]
B
That's really good. I was talking to our AI team yesterday because we, you know, we, we've implemented some AI last year with the hotels and with, with a lot of the stuff we're doing, especially on the revenue management side with the hotels. But I'm like, I got on with the master, I'm like, where else can I be using AI right now? And they're talking about AI in the, in the dm, like in the setters. But they said the one thing that the AI cannot do legally is, is start conversations. But I was just thinking about this while we were talking. It's like, could you run a paid ad to your followers and as a, to a DM once a dm, I wonder if the AI could legally kind of take over from there and qualify.
- [52:08]
A
I, I believe so. Because that's where you get the, you know, DM me this word. Right. Then they're starting the conversation, then your AI kicks in. Yeah, yeah.
- [52:16]
B
So similar to how many chat might work, but maybe a little bit more dial.
- [52:20]
A
Exactly, exactly. But sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If you're going after a very sophisticated, high value client, you might not want to do that because they're going to see that that's AI right away. And we talked about that on the boat, right? Like it was like sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn't. It all depends on who we're going. If you're going for a low ticket offer, go for it. Right. Because that's not worth your time sitting there, you know, for a couple hundred bucks.
- [52:42]
B
Yeah, no, you're right. And, and you know, talking to Sam Gaudette, he's like, yeah, Dan Martel has like full time setters in the office and they're like real competent. Like he doesn't do anyone, any VAs or anything like that because he doesn't want to jeopardize the brand. And I get that. And, and we have you know, two full time setters in my DM and they're competent and all that sort of thing. And yeah, you're right. Like it doesn't really make sense to go AI in the DM because you know, think about like with setters, like you're paying them based on performance and so it's not like this huge expense of like wasted money. You're only paying them when, when leads convert and it is kind of a nice touch point. And when you are dealing with sophisticated people, they know if it's not real homo.
- [53:24]
A
That's it. That's it. And again, like if it's a low ticket offer, like if you're selling a $200 a year app, for example, short, go for that. Because you know giving someone X amount of percentage on a $200 sale is it the juice isn't really worth the squeeze. But if it's a high ticket offer, invest in doing it manually. That's, you know, my suggestion there. And the other piece too, just to kind of wrap that question because there was a little nugget I wanted to add to about if you've never done paid ads before, you're not quite sure. Creative wise, look at your Instagram. Go back the last three, six, nine, you know, 12, so months or whatever, see what your best performing, performing organic pieces are and then create ads around that. What was the positioning? What was the hook? What was the composition that can help you? Because we know that performed well organically. So we're going to use those concepts as market research to our creative direction.
- [54:14]
B
That's really good. That's really good. Lindsey. This has been amazing. So much games, so much value. Work on the folks get in touch with you if they want to learn more. But more importantly, where can they get in touch you if they want to download your free guide but also even work with you?
- [54:26]
A
Amazing. So if you want to download my free guide, check me out on Instagram at. Lindsey Stockall is my handle and if you're interested in working with me to run your ads, shoot me an email. Lindsay@stockallandcompany.com I'm interested in working with you after this conversation.
- [54:43]
B
So we got, we got to talk. She is Lindsay Stockholm. Rich Summers listeners, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you in the next one. Peace.