The Travel Points Game No One Teaches You (Luxury for Pennies) | Eli Facenda E493

Summary

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The Rich Somers Report

Episode: The Travel Points Game No One Teaches You (Luxury for Pennies)

Guest: Eli Facenda ("Eli the Travel Guy")
Airdate: April 25, 2026
Host: Rich Somers

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Episode Overview

In this enlightening and dynamic episode, host Rich Somers welcomes travel hacking expert Eli Facenda to demystify the "travel points game." Together, they dissect how using the right credit cards, loyalty programs, and strategic redemption can unlock experiences—like luxury flights, international safaris, and five-star hotels—for a fraction of the price. Listeners gain insider knowledge on everything from earning points on mortgages and business expenses to selecting the perfect aircraft for an unforgettable flight. The conversation is peppered with travel stories, actionable tactics, and big-picture lessons on building "experiential wealth": living a rich life through memorable adventures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Experiential Wealth & Life Strategy

• Eli Facenda on Fulfillment:
  • "It's like having financial wealth, but in experiences, like living a rich life in experiences. That's fulfillment." ([00:00])
  • Referencing the book "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins, Eli stresses making the most of life’s stages for meaningful experiences, not just amassing money.
• Optimal Timing of Experiences:
  • "Don't wait until you're 80 to create experiences... Do the active stuff while you're young, the cruises can come later." ([00:00], [31:31])

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2. Major News: Earning Points on Mortgages and Rent

• Breaking News - Built Rewards Program:

  • Eli announces Built Rewards will soon allow mortgage holders to earn travel points via their mortgage payments. This is described as a major game-changer for both homeowners and investors.
    • "Built Rewards...just announced that in 2026, you'll be able to earn points on mortgages. This has never happened before." ([01:50])

• Earning Points on Residential Rent:

  • You don't have to live in a "Built Alliance" apartment; even if you rent a single-family home, you can use the built card and portal to pay any landlord and earn points. ([03:05])

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3. Business Owners: Maximizing Points on Large Expenses

• Huge Potential for Payroll, Inventory, Etc.:

  • By routing payroll or inventory purchases through third-party processors (like Plastique), businesses can earn valuable, tax-free points despite a 2.9% processing fee.
    • "If you pay that 2.9% fee and you earn the right points... you'll get between 6 to up to 10% back." ([04:47])

• Top Card Recommendation:

  • Capital One Venture X Business: Unlimited 2x points on all spend, no cap. ([05:18])
  • "That's definitely the card you want, but you still have to use the points well."
  • Special note: Some Capital One business cards report to personal credit; the Venture X Business does not. ([06:34])

• Other Popular Cards & Platforms:

  • Amex Business Platinum and Gold—can be powerful, but maximizing value depends on how/where you redeem points.
  • Platforms like CardPointers (for benefit tracking) and various points optimization tools (Point.me, Roame, SeatSpy, etc). ([13:28])

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4. Maximizing Redemption: Points Arbitrage

• Points Arbitrage Explained:
  • Don’t spend points at face value through Amex Travel or similar platforms (often 1 cent/point).
  • Instead, transfer points to airline programs that still use "award charts"—unlocking sometimes 3-4x more value.
    • "If you transfer them and do it well, you’ll find that for maybe 150, 200,000 points, you can book a $10,000 business-class round trip to Australia. That’s about 75-80% less than at face value." ([09:43])

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5. Loyalty Programs: The Real Economics

• Airlines Profit Most from Loyalty Programs:

  • "A lot of airlines make more from credit card fees, banking relationships...than actually selling seats." ([20:02])
  • "Do NOT get airline credit cards from inflight offers—they’re almost always a bad deal." ([20:23])

• The Pitfalls of Airline Status:

  • For most, chasing elite status is not worthwhile unless you’re a hub-based, ultra-frequent flyer; general spend is better with flexible points programs.
    • "Elite status on airlines is super overrated for most people." ([22:23])
    • "There’s a huge difference between Hilton points, Amex points, Delta miles...people don’t realize these are all worth different things." ([22:23])

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6. Luxury Air Experience: What’s Possible with the Right Points

• Best Airlines and Experiences:
  • Best Carrier for Luxury: Emirates (showers, caviar, inflight bar, impeccable service). ([25:43], [27:39])
  • Best Champagne: Singapore Airlines and some Japanese carriers (for top-shelf liquor/whiskey). ([28:21])
  • Unique “Mile High Club” Opportunities: Emirates (with shower suites, “max occupancy 2” signs). ([25:43])
• Picking Aircraft Matters:
  • For Emirates, always try for the A380 (shower/bar) or new 777 (private suite, Mercedes-Benz design). ([47:08])
  • Major differences between models and versions even within same airline—do your research to avoid disappointment.
• Comparing to Private and Semi-Private:
  • True private jets can run $10-15k per hour; even a $10-20k first class seat is a fraction of the cost. Points can't be used for private jets, so maximize commercial first class. ([52:10])
  • "Semi-private" flying (like JSX) offers some private perks but is really just more efficient/regional. ([54:03])

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7. Notable Experiences and Must-Dos

• Eli's Top Experiences:
  • Mario/“Monkey Kart” racing through the streets of Tokyo in costume: “This is peak life.” ([32:42])
  • Gorilla trekking in Uganda—limited passes, wild gorillas just feet away, “surreal.” ([34:07])
  • Safari in Africa (use points for high-end lodges like JW Marriott Masai Mara in Kenya; safaris aren’t cheap but can be points-bought now). ([35:17])
• Bucket-list Itinerary Advice:
  • Rich planning: San Diego → Dubai (for Emirates and city experience) → South Africa (for safari & Cape Town).
  • Use "positioning flights" to get the best deals starting from a major hub (e.g., LA, San Francisco). ([37:03])

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8. Best Practices & Practical Takeaways

• Use Points on Personal (Taxable) Trips First:
  • "Use points for your personal international trips; write off business travel. That’s how you maximize point value and tax efficiency." ([45:09])
• Card & Redemption Optimization Tools:
  • CardPointers: Track card benefits, deadlines, and perks; sync all cards and hand off admin to your assistant. ([13:23])
  • Comparison/Tool Stack: Roame, Point.me, Seats.aero, ExpertFlyer, MaxMyPoint for redemption research. ([09:42])
• Understanding Black Cards and Business Cards:
  • Amex Black Card: More status symbol than value; most people are better off with other premium cards. “It’s about the flex...from a financial standpoint, it’s not a very good decision.” ([38:17])
  • Chase Sapphire Reserve Business (new): 3x points per dollar with no cap for ads/travel, doesn’t report to personal credit, very competitive for business spend. ([40:12])
  • Chase 0% Stack Tactics: Stack Chase Ink Unlimited and Ink Cash for up to $250-300k in 0%-interest lines if qualified, move limits across cards, build gradually. ([42:07])
• True “10% Cashback” on Spend—The Math:
  • Use strategic points-earning (2–2.5x points/dollar), redeem for high-value travel (4–4.5x value/point); equivalent to 10%+ tax-free cashback for personal travel. ([44:47])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "Don't wait until you're 80 to create experiences...This is the time of my life where it's going to be harder to do in 40, 50, 60, 70 years." – Eli Facenda ([00:00])
• "They make more money on loyalty programs than selling seats." – Eli Facenda ([20:02])
• "For most people, elite status on airlines is super overrated." – Eli Facenda ([22:23])
• "The Amex Black Card is about a flex. That's what it's about. The perks and benefits ... are very minimal compared to other cards." – Eli Facenda ([38:17])
• "I ended up getting a $50,000 trip for about $2,500 out of pocket." – Eli Facenda (on his proposed trip using points) ([11:29])
• "Use points for flying your mom to Europe ... not for business trips you can write off." – Eli Facenda ([45:09])
• "This is peak life." – Eli Facenda (friend’s comment during Tokyo Mario/Monkey Kart ride) ([32:42])

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• 00:00–01:50: Experiential wealth philosophy
• 01:50–04:01: Earning points on mortgages and rent (Built Rewards breaking news)
• 04:01–07:05: How business owners can earn points on payroll, inventory, and rent
• 07:05–13:23: Best cards/platforms, maximizing Amex points, tools to optimize usage
• 20:02–22:23: Airlines’ loyalty programs as major profit centers, pitfalls of status
• 25:43–28:21: The ultimate airline luxury experiences (Emirates, Singapore, etc.)
• 35:17–37:00: African safaris, using points for luxury safari lodges
• 40:12–41:20: Chase Sapphire Reserve Business Card – best use cases and perks
• 44:00–45:09: Unlocking 10%+ true cashback value through points math
• 47:08–51:05: Why aircraft choice matters—differences between models even on the same airline
• 54:03–55:45: Semi-private flying (JSX, comparison to commercial and private jets)
• 56:27: How to connect with Eli, bonus resources for listeners

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How to Connect & Free Resource

• Eli Facenda (Instagram): @eli.travelguy
• Free CEO Points Playbook:
  • FreedomTravelSystems.com/summers (step-by-step playbook, bonuses, and concierge consultation info)

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This episode is a goldmine for business owners, entrepreneurs, and families wanting to travel better, cheaper, and smarter—making the most of every dollar while building a life rich in unforgettable adventure.

Transcript

[Eli Fenda]

Don't wait until you're 80 to create experiences. But the point I was gonna make with that, one of the things he talks about, he's like, it's important to think about getting the order right of your life. Like cruising. I could do that when I'm 90 and I can't walk. But right now, I'm young. I want to go hike mountains. I want to do shit that's more active because this is the time of my life where it's gonna be harder to do in, you know, probably 70, you know, 40, 50, 60, 70 years. So you need to think about when it comes to travel experiences and what. What's on your bucket list. Do wait until you're 60 to start thinking, I'm going to climb Kilimanjaro. Like, that needs to happen in your 20s or 30s or maybe 40s for most people. That's why I call it experiential wealth. It's like having financial wealth but in experiences, like living a rich life and experiences. And to me, when you think about points in travel, what it actually is, it's the ability to create amazing memories with the people you love and look back over your life and be like, man, I made a lot of money, but I also don't have regrets about these relationships and these experiences. And that's. That, to me, is like, fulfillment. So that's. That's a big motive for me.

[Rich Summers]

Welcome to the Rich Summers report, where we talk real estate, business, and wealth building, all while keeping it real. No fluff, no bs. I hope that you enjoy the show. All right, guys, welcome to another episode of the Report. Today, I got a good friend of mine in town and a repeat guess. Someone who helps you turn points into your dream travel and luxury lifestyle. I got my man Eli Fenda, the travel guy. What's up, Eli?

[Eli Fenda]

What's up, Rich? Good to be here again, man.

[Rich Summers]

Dude, I know, man. It's been a little bit, bro. 13 countries you've been traveling to in the last seven months.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, I've been on a little bit of a travel tear. It's been fun.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, that's amazing, dude. And so much to dive into here. I want to provide as much value to listeners as possible. But first things first, man. You just told me before we started recording. News just broke 2 hours ago about a new way that you can actually gain points to apply to your mortgages for real estate through credit cards. Talk about that.

[Eli Fenda]

This is huge. This literally broke today. So built Rewards. They're a platform that has a credit card, but they also have a rewards ecosystem.

[Rich Summers]

Okay.

[Eli Fenda]

Just announced that in 2026, you'll be able to earn points on mortgages. This has never happened before. It's a brand new thing. There's not a lot of details out yet, but it's going to enable you to essentially pay for your home or potentially, I don't know about investments yet. We'll see. And earn points for that. So that's a, that's a big game changer because that's most people's biggest expenses, especially if you're an investor. If they open up that ability to earn points on multiple homes, that's going to be a complete game changer for people to get way more free travel and epic life experiences from just paying for mortgages. So it's pretty killer.

[Rich Summers]

I know currently built will allow you to earn points on rent. Yes, I know with, I currently rent where I live. I'm a big fan of renting where you live. I live downtown. I never want to own a high rise condo downtown. Probably the worst real estate investment you can, you can, you can invest in. But I do love living downtown. I can walk to the office. But anyways, so through my portal where I pay rent, I know Bill has the reward system and you can earn points there, which is kind of cool. But you're saying now you can now earn points through mortgages.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, exactly. That's going to start soon. And the move with rent is amazing too. That was a huge first step for that program to allow renters to earn points. And you can earn points on rent even if you don't live in an apartment. That's a big misconception that a lot of people don't know.

[Rich Summers]

Is that, what do you mean by that?

[Eli Fenda]

Like if you rent a home and you have a landlord.

[Rich Summers]

Yes.

[Eli Fenda]

You can actually pay with the built card through the built portal. Pay your landlord and still earn points from that too. You don't just have to be in a building that's a part of what they call the built alliance. So there's, there's basically an option for almost anyone in the states to earn points from rent. But if they double dip that into mortgages like you're saying here, this is going to be just like gangbusters for everybody.

[Rich Summers]

So could I, could I earn built points for paying rent for our office space? Because we pay our landlord. Right.

[Eli Fenda]

I don't know about commercial leases. I know it's residential. I think it's more residential because the weight, that's their, their big positioning is they want to change the way that the renting and home buying process works. So I think that's more where their focus is. I don't think it's going to be for commercial and at this point like today, you can't do that. In the future we'll see what they end up doing. This program is going to kill it. These guys that are leading it, it's Naveen. Jane created this company, Viome, it's his son. It's already like a billionaire family who's the CEO of this company and they're really changing the game. So from a loyalty perspective and what's going to be possible for people this company is going to absolutely crush.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, that's huge right there. And I'm curious, just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you can also earn points for payroll and things of that nature. Talk about that. As a business owner, this is huge.

[Eli Fenda]

So when people realize that you can literally put payroll or rent or inventory or literally anything in your business on a card and earn points, and not just points, but tax free points, it's an absolute game changer. So the way you have to do it, you have to use a third party merchant processor. There's a couple out there that are good for this. Depending on if you have team, if they're domestic, overseas, there's transfer wise, there's PayPal, there's things like that. There's one called Zale Money and then the most common one's called Plastique which is P L A S T I Q. And what's going to happen is they're going to charge you a 2.9% fee. So a lot of people immediately off the bat they're like, well I don't want a fee.

[Rich Summers]

Right.

[Eli Fenda]

And that would make sense until you do the math. But the math says if you pay that 2.9% fee and you earn the right points with the right card and use them well, you're going to get between 6 to up to 10% back. That's a huge, that's a 3 to 7% savings on all payroll, all inventory. If you have a business like that, all potential mortgages. So that's really the key piece. You have to have the right card and then you have to use the point strategically. And if you do that, putting your payroll on a card, putting rent on a card, putting mortgages on a card, even through that platform is a total game changer.

[Rich Summers]

And what are the best cards for that?

[Eli Fenda]

So the best one today is called the Capital One Venture X for business. And the reason for that is most cards give you one point per dollar and what they call non category expenses. So right, these credit card programs have like 3x on ads or 4x on dining or 5x on travel. But what do you get when you go buy something from Amazon or CVS or you know, a non, non bonus category purchase? You usually just get 1 point per dollar. But the capital venture expert business gives you 2 points per dollars or 2 points per dollar with no cap. So a lot of these other cards that have bonus multipliers, they have a cap where it's like, hey, you can get this multiple on the first hundred thousand you spend with that card. It's unlimited, which is amazing because it kind of functions even like a charge card like the MX Platinum does where you can scale the spend up really high over time with that and earn an unlimited 2x. So that's definitely the card you want, but you still need to use the points. Well, otherwise even if you get 2 points per dollar with a 3% fee, you'd still be losing 1%. So there is a little math involved with how you use those points and that's going to be the game changer to, to make sure it's a, a break even or a positive ROI for you.

[Rich Summers]

The only downside I would say about the, the Capital One business cards is I believe it's only business credit card out there that actually reports to your, your personal credit profile. Is that right?

[Eli Fenda]

Some of them do. Not all the Capital One cards do. From what I understand, the capital and venture Extra business does not.

[Rich Summers]

Does not.

[Eli Fenda]

Okay. Yeah. But some cards, we have one, we

[Rich Summers]

have one business credit card with capital one and it reports to my personal credit. I'm like, I didn't know that until I got it.

[Eli Fenda]

It's a spark. Yeah, yeah. So I think the Venture X for business is different.

[Rich Summers]

It's different. Ah, got it, got it, got it. Okay.

[Eli Fenda]

Okay, that's a good catch. Because a lot of people miss that stuff when they're getting business credit cards and they're doing stuff like you've had Jack McClellan who does zero percent funding and you do that. And if you do that with a business card that reports your personal kind of mitigates the benefit. Right. Because it shows up on your credit report. So that's a good point.

[Rich Summers]

So, so two cards that we've had for quite some time and I love these cards. These are probably the ones that we use the most just with all the operations and one of our businesses, property management, so we just always have vendors and housekeeping and all this stuff, supplies going on these, these business cards is the Amex Business Platinum. And then we use the business Amex Gold. And, and so for us, you know, we use them and then at the end every year we, I have all these points accumulate and I got to get with you at some point and figure out like what is the best way for me to use these points because I don't know all the little ins and outs that, that you know and Jack McCall knows, but it was good. Like last year for example, did a round trip flight to down Australia, two weeks trip down there, flew business class on, on Qantas Air round trip and everything was covered by those points. But to my knowledge, and Jack did mention this, he's like, dude, you, you probably could have got 3 to 4x like what you actually got if I knew where to transfer to the right portals and all that. So I'm gonna have to touch base with you, you know, at some point. But just for someone listening, if they wanted to know, okay, what's the best strategy or platform for them to like know where to transfer points to? Is there like a, a software out there they can use or a service? What do you recommend?

[Eli Fenda]

There are some tools which I'm happy to share what those are. But the key thing to understand firstly is that there's no one size fits all solution which can be very frustrating for people when they first hear that because they're like, oh, I was just looking for like the one thing, but it completely depends on where you're flying, where you're like what region you're flying to or from. For example, if you're flying from the US to Europe in certain business class flights, one airline might be the best if you're flying from the east coast and another from the west coast because of the way that these airlines price very differently. So it can really vary a lot. But in order to find the best deal. So firstly you kind of touched on it, you definitely want to be transferring these points from the bank and credit card programs into the airline or potentially hotel loyalty programs. That's what we call points arbitrage. So points arbitrage is when the bank will charge based on the price of the ticket and the airline program will, will charge based off of what they call an award chart, which is really the distance between two countries or the regions they're in. So that's what the arbitrage is. And so for your example, we've helped hundreds of clients go to Australia on points. Commonly you'll see maybe $10,000 is a business class round trip ticket from the US Australia. If you go directly to Amex Travel, they give you one cent for each point. That's the key metrics. That's a million points. But if you, if you transfer them and you do it well, you'll find that for maybe 150, 200,000, maybe 250,000 points. So that's about 75% to 80% less than what you would pay to Amex. The other way of saying it is like basically 3 to 4x.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

So that's what you want to do. Now as far as tools go, there's a bunch and it depends on the kind of trip you're looking for. There's point me which is not as good for big international trips. It's better for quick domestic trips, things like that. There's one called Rome Travel which can be good in certain situations. Seats arrow can be a really good one. There's another one points. Yeah. There's also one called Expert Flyer for finding seats. So there's, and there's even more than that. There's maximize point for hotels. So it just depends on what trip you have, how big it is, how small it is, which is going to kind of be the right tool to use at the right time. There's not really a one size fits all solution for that. And you still kind of have to know even within that certain of tools don't pull in all the airline data. So like our team, we have like a concierge team. So like when we're doing like trip planning for a client, we'll know. Okay. We search on this T.L.O.O.L. but these two airlines aren't going to show there. So we need to check these manually here and half the time we might find the deal manually that wasn't showing over here. And so people sometimes just don't know what they don't know. And that's, that's the downside of just relying on the tools. But they are a big lift if you're doing nothing.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. So speaking of the, the Amex Platinum, what are some of the major changes of recent.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. Huge changes with the Amex Platinum. Right now, both the personal Platinum and the business Platinum just increased their fees to $895 per year, which is really steep for a lot of people. But if you use these, well they're, it's so valuable. And I'll give you an example. Right. So last December I created this surprise trip for my fiance. Well now fiance, but then girlfriend to go propose in Europe. And I was like in Austin, Texas, where I was living and I was like, all right, I want to propose to this girl, I want to take her to Europe. But like, I don't want to pay 50 grand for a first class trip. Let's do the points thing. Let's look it up. I ended up getting a $50,000 trip for about 2,500 bucks out of pocket. So it's a crazy experience. And the first hotel we stayed in was in Lucerne, Switzerland. It's this unbelievably beautiful, like small Swiss lake town. And if you've been. Have you been to Switzerland?

[Rich Summers]

No, I want to go.

[Eli Fenda]

It's. You're gonna love it. But it's expensive as hell. So expensive, dude. I mean, yeah, it's really pricey, but it's, it's nice. But the hotel we were in the

[Rich Summers]

most, the two most expensive places I've ever been. Yeah, two areas. Mykonos in the summertime.

[Eli Fenda]

Yes.

[Rich Summers]

I mean Mykonos in summertime you get like a. Just a mediocre three star hotel is gonna run you 1500.

[Eli Fenda]

I know, yeah.

[Rich Summers]

And then the second most expensive place I've been to, I'll probably have to say Australia. Like, like Bondi Beach. Some of these areas like in, in their season.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, man. I, I'll tell you some of the points acts for some expensive places in a minute. But the point. So for that story, right? So. So when I was planning this, I was looking for different hotels and I found this really cool hotel. It's called the, the Schweizerhof Hotel. It's right on Lake Lucerne. It's like beautiful crystal blue lake. You have the snow capped mountains. It's stunning. And the benefit of the Amex Platinum, one of them is the fine hotels and resorts perk. So I use that perk and I got upgraded to a suite. And there's specific ways to ask for suite upgrades that will get you much better suite upgrades, much more impactful. And that's where the savings is. But that upgrade was. Was three grand, three grand in value per night. So that was $6,000 in value on one trip, on one weekend from one benefit from that car. So yes, there's some big fee increases, but if you use these perks, there's going to be some huge returns for. You just have to actually use them. And there's other credits. They have a bunch on there. Most people don't use any of them. And one of the tools, I'll actually tell you if you want to track the perks of your card and keep it organized and simple. Card Pointers is the app. So the app will sync all of your cards into one app and load all the benefits you have. Like, okay, you have this airline credit here, this Uber credit there, this hotel credit there, this airline credit here. And it will help you make sure that you're using these things. So you're not just paying annual fees and not getting the return. Because all of every single card that has an annual fee, if you use, honestly, even like half the perks, you're getting at least a 2-3x ROI on that fee. So it's a. It's a good investment if you use them.

[Rich Summers]

Say the name of this website again.

[Eli Fenda]

So Card Pointers is that app that will sync all of your card.

[Rich Summers]

Card pointers.

[Eli Fenda]

Card Pointers, yeah. Into one place and give you all the benefits of those cards in one spot. You literally just be like, oh, did I use the airline fee? Yep, check. And then it's, like, checked off. So, you know, okay, I'm good for the year. Because some of these things, right, like, they're every six months, they have the benefits. So you can't redeem them all, like, once per year even. You have to use like. Like with Dell, with the Business Platinum, dell gives you $400 in credits, which is pretty good because it's half the fee, but it's $200 every six months.

[Rich Summers]

Got it.

[Eli Fenda]

So if you want to buy, like, tech for your, you know, some gear or whatever for Your company is 200 between January to June and then 200 from July to December. So you can't just do a $400 transaction. So that's good. That app is good for keeping those things organized. So you can just see it. Usually, like, for us, this is something we tell people to hand off to their assistant because it's much easier for them to track than you. You don't have bandwidth for that. Right. So you have a team member handle that.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. Okay, that's really, really good. So with. With the travel, like, with that, that app will also tell me, like, at the end of the year, this is how many points you have, and then this is, like, the best method to go use them.

[Eli Fenda]

Or.

[Rich Summers]

Or that's gonna be something different.

[Eli Fenda]

No, that's a different app. So there's Card Pointers is more for the card benefits you have and, like, which card to use in certain situations, and we'll kind of show you that too. It's not for how to use the points or Redeem them. That's a whole other, that's a whole other piece.

[Rich Summers]

Got it. Yeah. So this year I try to go to the southern hemisphere. So we always, you know, take a couple weeks off out of the office end of the year between Christmas and then we'll come back to the office. Typically right after New Year's, everything shuts down in commercial real estate. Lenders are, are not working, brokers are not working. And so there's no reason we need to be in the office. And so it's a nice little break, two and a half weeks. And so I'll typically travel to the Southern hemisphere where it's warm. So two years ago I did Argentina.

[Eli Fenda]

Nice.

[Rich Summers]

Yep. And last year I did Australia. Cool. This year I want to do South Africa.

[Eli Fenda]

Cool.

[Rich Summers]

And go to like Cape Town and then I want to do like some sort of like maybe five day safari tour. Great. During the middle of it.

[Eli Fenda]

Yep.

[Rich Summers]

Never done a safari. It looks dope and I, I would love to do something like that this year. So I'm going to be looking to use the points for that.

[Eli Fenda]

We will help you out with that. I've done, I've done both a safari. I did like a mini one, but I also did gorilla trekking in Uganda. Really?

[Rich Summers]

Damn.

[Eli Fenda]

And that was, dude, seeing gorillas like 10ft from you in the wild. An insane experience.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, insane.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

So one thing I noticed when I travel with these, these different airlines, domestic versus international, is when you go at international, like the service, the quality of everything that you get from the food, the drinks, the quality of service, everything is like way better. It's way more enhanced internationally. Why do you think that is?

[Eli Fenda]

I think that the international market overall is a little bit more competitive for these international routes. I think that's probably one thing. Like if you think of the Middle East.

[Rich Summers]

Right.

[Eli Fenda]

Part of the airline experience is almost a flex for the country. Like you think about Qatar's competing with Emirates and then Emirates is competing with Ehad. So these, these airlines are kind of in a little bit of like a. Who's got the flashiest, best service and best experience. I think there's a, there's an element of that. But beyond that, I think, yeah, I think it's mostly like a cultural thing. There might be some hiring things that they do with some of the staff we were talking about that could be a factor. But it is a noticeable difference because even the best US based airlines, like the first class. The best first class and the best US airline doesn't even come close to like the Fifth best first class from these international carriers. You're absolutely right.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. And who knows, I mean maybe it's, maybe it's like a, you mentioned it's more competitive overseas, but from a price standpoint it might be more competitive here domestically.

[Eli Fenda]

That's what I think because yeah, think

[Rich Summers]

about most of these countries, like Ireland, they got one airline, right. You're talking about somebody's Australia, they got one airline here in the US we got a lot United, Delta, Southwest, American, just to name a few.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, right.

[Rich Summers]

And so now they're all competing with each other. JetBlue is another one, Allegiant Frontier. And so they're all competing with each other on price. And so maybe that's a factor of it. And so they maybe over the years they started cutting certain things like hey, we're not going to do, you know, meals on certain flights. We're going to cut like fancy breakfasts. We're not going to do caviar. Yeah, maybe that's part of it. I don't know. I'm speculating. I'm always want to be wrong.

[Eli Fenda]

Right.

[Rich Summers]

But also, you know, the seats seem to be more comfortable with the international ones. But one thing I will say is this, and I know this is a fact. I used to air traffic control for a while, but air traffic control was unionized and the flight attendants here are unionized as well. And so if you look at the airlines, these international airlines will have typically a lot of females, all female staff, all the sortuses, all the flight attendants will be all females, typically between the ages of 20 and 25. You don't, you don't see any sort of some of these airlines over 30 because they age out. But here in the US if you look at American, Delta, United, Southwest, you will see, you know, younger flight attendants, but you also will see flight attendants in their 60s and some of these flight attendants are in their 70s here because it's unionized. And I think from a labor law they're protected here in the States. And so that's one difference you'll see. And it's funny because here in San Diego, living here, you go to some of these local hotels, the Intercontinental Hotel for example, the British Airways will put their, their, their cruise there and then also Japan Airlines will put their cruise there. And so just hanging out in the hotel like lobby they, not in the lobby but hanging out the hotel bar over there. You'll see the, the crews come in and out. Japan Airline and British Airways, it's like, it's like 23, 24 like young girls just like lined up. And then the US Airlines, it's not like that. So that's a huge discrepancy there.

[Eli Fenda]

It's crazy, right? No, I realized that too. The first couple times I started flying Emirates. It was like I got on the flight and I was like, I was like, I was like a, you know, 24 year old single dude. I was like, what? This is not what flying is. Just like. And then I went to Miami, same thing. You're saying the Cadillac Hotel actually on South Beach. Yeah, it's right in Mid beach, is Marriott property. You can use points there and all that. I remember going there and it was like, I think like half the Emirates crew, because they have a lot of flights out of Miami was sitting there too. And I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, this looks a little different than the standard like JetBlue staff. Nothing against them, but yeah, it's just a little different.

[Rich Summers]

And I'd be curious to see maybe Oscar, Oscar, you can look this up for us. I'd be curious like at what year did the us, the domestic airlines start forming their, their union for the flight attendants? Because I think at some point, like decades and decades ago, it wasn't, it wasn't the case. But now it's like, I mean you, you'll see flight attendants on some of these like American flights that like, they, they can barely walk, they can barely bend over. I'm like, dude, they're a little bit too old to be working. It doesn't look safe. But then internationally, like, yeah, they feel like they have an age out at like 25 years old, right?

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. Well, what's wild too, I mean, the airline industry is so unbelievably cutthroat and competitive and like razor thin margins, if at all.

[Rich Summers]

In fact, a lot of them lose money.

[Eli Fenda]

A lot of them lose money. They make more money on their loyalty programs than they do from selling seats.

[Rich Summers]

What do you give me an example? When you say they make more money in the loyalty program, how do they make money?

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, a lot of airlines are making more money from credit card fees. The way they do the banking relationships, the like lounge access, all the membership benefits, things like that.

[Rich Summers]

Got it.

[Eli Fenda]

Then they get from selling seats. So if you're on a flight, right, they are like hawking cards at you, which is usually always a terrible card option. So I would highly recommend against.

[Rich Summers]

Don't do that.

[Eli Fenda]

Do not get an inflight credit card.

[Rich Summers]

I always wondered like, who, who are the people signing up for those cards? That, like, they're just yelling on the intercom, hey, sign up for this American card. We're going to give you $200 in credits.

[Eli Fenda]

You know, I think there's probably to

[Rich Summers]

get their thing out and sign up,

[Eli Fenda]

there's got to be. Because, I mean, they obviously do it, but it's free marketing. Right. They're already there, so you have a captive audience. It's like, clearly they're travelers. But, I mean, this actually shocked me. I think it's something like 80 of the world has never been on an airplane.

[Rich Summers]

Damn.

[Eli Fenda]

Like a lot of the world has never been.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. I don't believe that.

[Eli Fenda]

It's crazy.

[Rich Summers]

80 of the world has never been on airplanes.

[Eli Fenda]

Something like that. Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

What do you think it is in America?

[Eli Fenda]

It's probably got to be still, like, probably like 40 or so, I'd imagine. But point is, I think there's. We travel a lot, right. We're business owners. We're doing a lot of events and things, so we're kind of just used to it. But I think there are a good chunk of people who are like, on their first flight, second flight, maybe they travel once a year, so they're not thinking about this stuff. And when they get on a flight and they're like, sign up for this card and you can fly to Hawaii for free. They're like, oh, my God, I never thought of that. So I'm sure there's a percentage of people. I did it actually when I was like, 23. When I was there.

[Rich Summers]

You go.

[Eli Fenda]

Very new to this. I was like, wait, I get that. Yeah. I was like, this is crazy. You're telling me I could get this card. And I was just learning about points. I was like, I could fly to Europe and round trip in economy for free. And I was like, that'd be amazing. So I didn't know much. I made so many mistakes when I was young, starting out with this stuff. It's complicated. It's nuanced. There's a lot of different cards and programs and all this stuff, but that's part of their model.

[Rich Summers]

And when you say it doesn't make sense, typically, like, that resonates with me because the way I look at these reward programs is, well, if. If I'm going to be with United. But then the reality is, is there's, you know, six, seven different airlines here in the U.S. for me, I'm always going to take the flight that has the direct. So which airline has the direct flight based on where I'm going. Right. And typically out of San Diego. San Diego's not, it's not lax, it's not, you know, Dallas Fort Worth, that's not a major airport out of San Diego. There's typically only going to be one airline that has the direct flight to wherever I'm going. And so let's just say San Diego to Miami. There's only one airline that goes non stop and that's American. So if I have United points and all that, I don't want to be tied to taking United and having connections when I could just get on the non stop to be American.

[Eli Fenda]

Yep, exactly. That's so. So like for us, right? So we worked with a couple thousand clients on this and we have a three step system that we always walk people through. The first one, we call it the double your points method. And that's about getting not just more points, but the right ones. And that's the most important piece because think about it, right? These points are all like currencies. And so if I were to invest with you and you're like, hey, the deal's a million, you know, million, whatever, and I was like, okay, can I pay in pesos? You'd be like, no, it's dollars, right? But there's a clear difference between dollars and pesos. But in the points world, people don't realize there's a huge difference between Hilton points and Amex points and Delta miles and Alaska miles. Those are all worth different things. And so when you think about what you want to spend on and what airline you want to be loyal to, it will make a massive difference in terms of the benefits you get, the upgrades you get, and just overall how much value and free travel you're getting back by picking the right programs and cards. So like when you're, when you're flying like that and you're not flying one airline consistent consistently. This is why I tell so many people that going for elite status unless you're in a certain percentage of people is a huge waste. Elite status on airlines is super overrated for most people. Certain people I know you've had pace Morbi talks about concierge key. That could be a different section because the volume of travel, the spend is there, the benefits that are going to be utilized. But for most people it's not. And it's how they again gamify the system to make money long term is by creating a really good loyalty system that most people lose at and they win. So that's kind of what you need to know about airline loyalty systems too.

[Rich Summers]

What is American Airlines Concier key.

[Eli Fenda]

So concierge key. There's other ones too. There's like United Global Services and other airlines kind of have these like higher end invitation only, private, VIP level, elite status. And you have to be invited in. Usually you have to travel a ton or spend a ton on a co branded car with them and, or be like kind of celebrity like status where like you get to board privately. Oftentimes you get like a private chauffeur. You get different, you obviously get lounge access, you get different benefits, companion passes sometimes. So there's different levels for different programs, but they're essentially for like the super elite travelers. The thing is, for again, for the vast majority of people, it's not worth it because the opportunity cost of what it takes in terms of the points you could be earning, the value you could be earning with other cards, you're just not getting as much. If you're dedicating all of your spend to generally like an American Airlines card. The exception to that would be someone that lives in maybe an American hub like Miami or Dallas or Phoenix, where

[Rich Summers]

you go nonstop anywhere in the world.

[Eli Fenda]

Only, yeah, they're only on American. It's nonstop pretty much everywhere. And they're traveling like two, three, maybe four times a month on that airline because then you're getting enough volume where the benefits actually make sense beyond that

[Rich Summers]

and you won't have the need to take other airlines.

[Eli Fenda]

You don't have to fly other airlines. Exactly right. But beyond that, it's, it's kind of just a flex. Right. But for example, with like Delta, Delta's points in the, in the miles world, we call them sky pesos because they're worth terrible sky paces. If you want to fly to Delta and fly Delta to Europe in business class or Atlanta, Delta one, which is their kind of first class, is oftentimes like 3 or 500,000 points, whereas you might be able to fly air France for 60,000 points on the same route. So it's a huge difference. So if you're flying Delta a lot and you live in a Delta hub, you're like, well, I'll just do the Delta card or Delta miles. Meanwhile, you're, you're getting like 80% less value than you could or should by using other cards. See, I'm saying, so these small things make a huge difference in terms of your total returns.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Um, out of curiosity, what, what is the best airline to join the Mile High Club?

[Eli Fenda]

The best airline to join the Mile High Club is definitely going to be Emirates for sure. Now the reason being is they have the first class with the inflight bar. You get like your private suite, champagne, caviar, but they actually have the shower on board too. And what's hilarious is when you go up to it, it says max occupancy too.

[Rich Summers]

So they, they encourage it.

[Eli Fenda]

So I don't know what they're trying to do. Yeah, but they definitely want some Emirates babies. I don't know if they get citizenship, if they're, if they see if they're not. But that would definitely be the Mile High Club move. The other one would be the EAD Residences because you have your own suite, you have your own private bathroom with a shower and then your own bedroom, a separate bedroom. It's like truly flying private in, you know, a commercial aircraft. So those, those would be the two for that.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, yeah. And, and what is it, what is it like taking a shower in the sky?

[Eli Fenda]

You fly to Europe or you're flying to the Middle east, you're on a 9, 10, 12 hour flight, you're eating caviar, drinking champagne, and then you have a flight attendant walk up to you and say, sir, would you like to shower at 6am or 7am it's just first off, the feeling is just like, this is insane. Like, it's amazing. And for me, when I start to think about the fact that like, commercial flying has only been around for what, maybe like a hundred years, like the fact that you can shower on a plane, on a flight that you didn't even pay for, I'm like, we live in a world that is like, better than the dreams of like pretty much anyone for all of human history. It's so cool we get to do that. But it also does give you. I mean, I've done it a couple times and every time I land after I've showered on a flight, I'm like, yep, I feel way more refreshed and way more ready to go. They got the pajamas. The whole experience is really, really cool.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, I've never showered on a plane, but I can imagine it feels like refreshing when I'm out on the boat. For example, for, for extended periods of time and doing crossings. Like you feel like salty, right? And just like you just need to refresh.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

And just taking a quick shower, like, it just resets you, you feel good. Totally. Which airline has the best caviar?

[Eli Fenda]

Dude, the best caviar on an airline in my opinion. Also Emirates. They're, they're probably my favorite overall area.

[Rich Summers]

So they're number one.

[Eli Fenda]

They're number one for me. But the reason that they have the best caviar isn't just like, it's not the quality, it's the portions. Dude, they serve you just like plates full. There's unlimited amounts of just huge. Like there's been some flights when I totaled up how much caviar and champagne I had, I'm like, I just took them down for like 2 grand. I think it's crazy of what, what they do, but their service is impeccable. The flight hands encourage it too. Like, they really like you to get the most out of the experience. And so right away at takeoff, I order one. Sometimes I don't even order like a full meal. I'll just get like four rounds of caviar and.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

And just keep it going because I really enjoy it. So.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. What about the best champagne? Would you say it's Emirates as well?

[Eli Fenda]

You know, Singapore Airlines tends to have some of the best, best drinks. And some of the Japanese carriers, if you want to go outside the champagne too, A and A Japan Airlines, they'll have like really nice Japanese Whiskey, you know, 600 bottles, things like that. But Singapore Airlines is really good. They have a lot of Krug. They have some different, you know, different Dom Per on some other nice, really, really good caviar champagnes as well. So I'd say Singapore is probably the top four for overall, like, you know, alcohol, champagne service.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so I want to switch gears here a little bit and talk about the new Ritz Carlton, like yacht cruise ship. I see a lot of people on social media going and taking this cruise.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

What is the Ritz Carlton new cruise ship? What is that all about?

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, I mean, a lot of these really premier brands and hotels are getting into cruising, right? Four Seasons is coming out the cruise line. Ritz has them, but they're not the big traditional cruises like Carnival or MSC or you know, these, these mega yachts where it's like 6,000 people. These are like, you know, I think there's like 200 rooms on them. They're smaller, but they're really, really nice. And the fact that these are becoming co branded with the hotel loyalty programs is amazing because that means you can earn points, you know, you can use the benefits and things like that. And it also just. The biggest thing though, to me is there's a standard. You think Ritz, you think Four Seasons, you know, it's nice, right? You think like Carnival, msc, some of these other cruises, you're just not really, not really sure. So it's definitely like a premium cruising experience, but they're starting to open up more all around the world. They have some in, in Europe. My buddy actually chartered one and they sailed across the Atlantic for 11 days with like 200 entrepreneurs, investors and philanthropists. Last year they sailed from I think Portugal to maybe New York or something. And it was an 11 day sale on the Ritz Carlton yacht. So they're, they're popping up, they're doing more and I think it's just an amazing way to see parts of the world and have a really good experience, but knowing that it's not going to be some like, you know, super crowded, kind of lower quality experience. Like you'll get on a lot of cruises.

[Rich Summers]

So yeah, my whole thing with the cruise ship is like, I think it's cool for the experience or like, if you're with the right people and in the right room, it makes sense. But I think if you're gonna go travel to like actually soak in the culture and actually really sightsee like a new city or destination, I feel like, you know, getting off the ship for six hours and then you're gone, you don't really get to even have dinner in the local city. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[Eli Fenda]

I agree.

[Rich Summers]

But you know, I think if, you know, you got a family, you got kids and you know, there's a lot of cool activities for the kids and you just want to like get out in the sun and like cruise, I think it's a good option. But for actually like really sightseeing and like really soaking in the culture somewhere, totally not. Not my favorite option.

[Eli Fenda]

I agree. Have you read the book Die with Zero?

[Rich Summers]

No.

[Eli Fenda]

So this amazing book by a guy named Bill Perkins, I'll kind of give the summary, but basically what he talks about, he's like, over your lifetime, this is a big. He's talking to entrepreneurs and investors, people that are probably listening to this highly recommend. The book we talked about. Over your lifetime, the vast majority of people, their wealth and income is going to go up into the right. They're going to have more money over time. But their ability to use their money for life experiences that they're actually going to enjoy and create fulfillment goes down. Your time goes down. Your energy, your mobility, your ability to like create the memories with certain people. Die. I just had a friend who passed away last week and like he's at 52 and like, it's scary, it's terrible.

[Rich Summers]

Time is the only asset we have. Where we don't, we don't know how much is left.

[Eli Fenda]

Totally. And so it's like, don't wait until you're 80 to create experiences. But the point I was going to make with that, that one of the things he talks about, he's like, it's important to think about getting the order right of your life. Like cruising. I could do that when I'm 90 and I can't walk right. Just stick me on a cruise ship and I'll sail around Europe. It'll be epic. But right now I'm young, I want to go hike mountains. I want to do that's more active because this is the time of my life where it's going to be harder to do in, you know, probably 70, you know, 40, 50, 60, 70 years. So you need to think about when it comes to travel experiences and what, what's on your bucket list. Don't wait until you're 60 to start thinking, I'm going to climb Kilimanjaro. Like that needs to happen in your 20s or 30s or maybe 40s for most people. And that's what this, this book is about. And I thought that was really powerful. That's why I, I call it experiential wealth. It's like having financial wealth, but in experiences, like living a rich life and experiences. And to me, when you think about points in travel, what it actually is, it's the ability to create amazing memories with the people you love and look back over your life and be like, man, I made a lot of money, but I also don't have regrets about these relationships and these experiences. And that's, that to me is like fulfillment. So that's, that's a big motive.

[Rich Summers]

So, so you've had a lot of experiences all over the world.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

What's one experience? If you could recommend to the listeners right now that you're like, this is my number one experience. And you, you hands down have to do this at some point.

[Eli Fenda]

So I'll tell you a little story about this one. It's March of this year and I am wearing a hilariously like gorilla looking costume with a Japanese baseball jersey. And I pull up in a Mario Kart in the middle of Tokyo and I look to the right and my friend pulls up and she's just looking around. We're looking at the Tokyo sky tree, Japanese shrines, all these people here. And she looks at me, she goes, this is peak life. And so if there's one experience that's wild, it's go to Japan. It's amazing country, insane, amazing quality. But Go to Japan and do the they call monkey cards. It's basically like you get to play Mario Kart through Tokyo. You can do with a group. So we had a group of people that went. There was. I ran a mastermind with 53 entrepreneurs that came together for this trip. We went skiing in Japan and we went to Tokyo. But like 15 to 20 of us did this Mario Kart thing after. So we're literally ripping through Tokyo in go karts, through like the traffic and the craziness. It is like the coolest freaking experience you'll ever have. So that's, that's one for sure. I. I'll throw it.

[Rich Summers]

And you got to get in the costume.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, they give you the costume.

[Rich Summers]

So who, who was your character?

[Eli Fenda]

So they, they used to do like actually Mario Kart and you could dress like Mario Luigi, but they.

[Rich Summers]

I used to like Wario when I

[Eli Fenda]

played when I was a kid. Yeah, you can eat a banana peel and toss it on the street. This one, they have just like funny costumes. It's not actually Mario theme for the. I think some, probably some copyright issue, but. But that's a good one. The other one we already talked about. Anytime you can see like insane wildlife, you know, go gorilla trekking in Uganda. Like, wow, Unbelievable.

[Rich Summers]

So what is that exactly? And you say gorilla trucking.

[Eli Fenda]

Yes. A lot of people think gorilla tracking. I'm like, no, I'm not hunting them.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

So what happens is there's a limited number of passes that you can have for this. And it's in a small part of Uganda called Bwindi National Forest. You fly into ent, which is the capital. You take a couple puddle like hoppers and then, dude, you're on like the crazy back bumpy African roads for a couple hours. So you're going like, you're going in for this. And that's a crazy experience alone. I mean, we were driving for hours and you'd see, you know, these kids were just like. These like young African children would just like hop out of the trees, out of nowhere into the street. It was like the first time they've ever seen white people. It was like wild. So the whole experience is crazy. But you get there and then you get a pass. And these guides that are out there, they know how to like track footprints. And so you go trekking through the jungle and they'll find a family of gorillas and you just get to observe them in their natural habitat. But you can be like literally this close to 400 pound gorillas, like a family of them. And you just get to experience what that's like up close in person. And it's, it's surreal. And the, the guards do carry guns. Not to shoot them, but just to shoot a scare shot in case they charge anybody. Doesn't really happen. But. But it's a wild experience, man. They're like, they're, they're fierce.

[Rich Summers]

It's insane. Yeah. Have you, have you done like a traditional safari out there too?

[Eli Fenda]

So I did, I did like a mini safari.

[Rich Summers]

I didn't do the experience.

[Eli Fenda]

It was two days. Two days?

[Rich Summers]

Yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

So it was like part water, part land, I hear luxurious. They can be really. Yeah, most of them are really nice. Like if you go there, they're usually not going to be very budget oriented. And for points and loyalty, this is, this is really epic. So there's, there's a couple of different places do safaris. South Africa being a big one. Kenya is also really big too. So there is now a property in. It's called, I think it's the JW Marriott Masai Mara in Kenya. And you can use points for that and it covers everything, the stay and the actual like safari experience. Safaris aren't cheap. Like if you're going with two people for 10 days, Safari could be like anywhere from 20,000 to $70,000 for two days. No, no, sorry, two people. But if you're going for like 10 days or two weeks.

[Rich Summers]

Right.

[Eli Fenda]

It's a, it's not a cheap.

[Rich Summers]

So 10 to 20 grand per person all in? Probably, yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. 10 to 20 per person. Yeah, probably, yeah. Just depends on where you're going. You know, there's different levels but, but that property allows you to use points and get a lot of that stuff covered, which is really big. So that's in, that's in Kenya. There's other points, properties and stuff too in, in, in South Africa. But it's. Yeah, it's a bucket lister for anybody. Where would you.

[Rich Summers]

So like, let's say I'm gonna go do two weeks this winter, South Africa, obviously. I want to hit Cape Town for a little bit. I want to do probably like, I don't know if I would do 10 days. I'd probably say like a five day safari would be like perfect.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

And then, and then if you had to sprinkle in like another segment of that trip, what would you recommend in Africa? So just to switch it up.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, totally.

[Rich Summers]

Something that's probably not safari, like from California.

[Eli Fenda]

South Africa is really freaking far. Right. So where you route and how you get there is important. Like I would probably do two to three days maybe in either. Like if you're flying from San Diego to London, maybe do a couple days there and then hop down. That's what I did when I went

[Rich Summers]

to Africa or maybe Dubai.

[Eli Fenda]

That was the next Was gonna say. You could do the Middle east and do Dubai from there would be really good too.

[Rich Summers]

So maybe I'll do that.

[Eli Fenda]

That's what I was gonna say because

[Rich Summers]

I haven't been to Dubai. Oh, and then, and then I probably have to stop at either London or Dubai. I'd rather stop in Dubai.

[Eli Fenda]

No, do Dubai, do Dubai. Because you're going to get the Emirates experience for sure. We can help you plan that out.

[Rich Summers]

And you go what, LA, LA to Dubai nonstop? Yeah, probably.

[Eli Fenda]

So this is something called a positioning flight.

[Rich Summers]

Okay.

[Eli Fenda]

Which is where you're in San Diego, which is not a major hub for big international routes in most cases. So a positioning flight is where you'd hop from San Diego to another major hub, Louisiana, San Francisco, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, New York, and then you would take the main flight from there. So if you want to get a great points deal and save 10, 20 grand on flights, that's what you need to do. So you need to be able to be willing to take that little extra hop. When you do that, you're going to get a great deal to Dubai and then Dubai to South Africa has a lot of connectivity too. So you do a two to three day stop over there. There's so much great business, a lot to see, but amazing entrepreneurs in Dubai too. And then go to South Africa from there. So that'd be the one I would suggest. And then you definitely don't need to go to Johannesburg in South Africa. I would probably. That.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eli Fenda]

And then Cape Town and, and the safari.

[Rich Summers]

I love it. I love it. Yeah. One of our, our setters on our team, she, she's it lives in Cape Town.

[Eli Fenda]

Oh, cool.

[Rich Summers]

And so she's like, dude, come out. She. I'll show you all the local spots and all that. So that, that one, yeah. Okay, so the Amex Black card.

[Eli Fenda]

Break.

[Rich Summers]

Break this down.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. So the Amex Black card is super overrated, which a lot of people hate to hear. We have so many clients that have it and when I say that, their butts pucker because they're like, wait, I thought it was. So here's the thing. Let me be straight with you. The Amex Black card is about a flex. That's what it's about. The perks and benefits, the points, earnings, the actual return you get from it are very minimal compared to what you'd be getting if you use other cards. That said, some people want to be able to go to the country club or the dinner or the event and throw down the black card because they like the status symbol of what it represents. I'm not here to judge, but from a financial standpoint, it's actually not a very good decision. The fees are huge. It's like I think 10 grand your first year and then 5,000 a year, something like that. It's really big up front and they offer a coner service but they don't actually, they're not really that great. It's not like you're talking to like a really well traveled individual. It's usually a Philippines based rep who can just like handle the administrative part of a booking, which for most of those people you're assisting can do that anyway. So there's minimal benefits there. And then other cards will actually earn better and more or not better points, but earn more points than the black card on most purchases. So for most people the black card is, is not really a great fit. It's really just that status symbol that people want to play.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, I have a black card with, with Barclays and that card's okay. I use it, I use it sometimes. I mostly use the, my, my Amex. But that's a totally different, the Barclays

[Eli Fenda]

one is totally different than the Amazon.

[Rich Summers]

It's different than that.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah. Like I think they borrowed the marketing because of the branding that everyone already has around Black card from Amex. We're like, well, if we make one, we'll probably just think it's on par.

[Rich Summers]

But it is completely, completely different. Yeah, I don't even know anything about it.

[Eli Fenda]

Way less perks, way less. The fee is significantly less. The benefits are less. The earning structure is different. Barclays points are not the same as Amex points. So you can't do as much with Barclays points anyway. So that's not really. Yeah, that's a totally different thing.

[Rich Summers]

Okay. Yeah. Interesting, interesting. Okay, so Chase just came out with a new Sapphire business card. Talk about that.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. So Chase just dropped probably one of the best business cards.

[Rich Summers]

Brand new, Brand new, just brand new.

[Eli Fenda]

Just came out within the last couple of months. It's the Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business. So in the credit card game, the Chase Sapphire Reserve personal card has been well known as one of the best cards and they were really falling behind in the business category and they just dropped the Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business, which is, which is A game changer for people that spend a lot on ads or travel. It's really, really good because you're earning three points per dollar with no limit on those categories. So a lot of media buyers, marketers, people like that, it's a really good card for them. And there's a lot of premium perks and things like that. And it comes with something called Points Boost, which gets you, which really gets you a lot more value out of your points if you use them there. In a lot of cases, you still don't want to do that because there's better ways to get value by transferring them than by going directly to Chase. But that's a big lift too. So this is, this is huge because to date most business owners were using the Amex Business Platinum for just like general spend, which is not that great. And if they optimize it, they're probably going to the business gold, maybe capital and Venture X Chasing preferred. Now this card's in the repertoire and it's really changing the game for what business owners can earn and how they can even use some of the benefits.

[Rich Summers]

And who, who's the perfect candidate for this card?

[Eli Fenda]

High spend business owner. Definitely want to look at the Chase Sapphire Reserve.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. Okay. Okay, I like that.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

And they don't report to their personal credit.

[Eli Fenda]

That too.

[Rich Summers]

Which is big.

[Eli Fenda]

Which is big. Yeah. And that one is.

[Rich Summers]

I feel like if they report the personal credit, kind of defeats the purpose of having it.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. Well, for depending on the business, some people like if you're not, if you're paying off before the statement balance is due, a statement is closes, then you're not going to have any utilization report anyway. So it doesn't really matter. But for a lot of people that are, you know, running charges and they pay off before the payment due date, that utilization is going to report and it's going to impact your credit. So you're absolutely right. It just depends on how you're using the cards though.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. So speaking of Chase, break down the way that you can utilize multiple Chase cards to get up to 250,000, up to $300,000 and 0% credit cards. With Chase.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. So with, with Chase, I mean, you got to stack. They have some of the best part of the reason I love chase for the 0% kind of funding game and stacking these is because you can actually earn good points from them too. A lot of the other 0% interest cards, you know, bank of America, Wells Fargo, things like that, they don't earn points that are very good. So it's rare that a bank gives the opportunity to kind of double dip on the funding side and getting high limits and 0% and then also use them for points and Chase does. So the stack there is going to be the Chase Inc. Unlimited and the Chase Inc. Cash. Those are basically going to have the same points earning structure. They often market them as cash back cards, but in reality they earn points. That's big. And those are going to be 0% for 12 months. The other play is whatever other limits you get within Chase, you can, depending if it's in the same business, you can transfer those limits into your new card. So let's say you've had to Chase business cards, maybe an Ink Preferred and Inc. Unlimited, you've had them for a while and then you get a new Chase card, right? A new Chase and Chase Inc. Unlimited that will have 12 months at 0%. You could move the limit from those other two cards onto that. If you stack that all up over time, it kind of snowballs and that limit will build and you'll get into like really, really high amounts. I mean I've seen people get into the low hundreds with Chase, but some people, I mean I've, I've heard, I haven't seen it. People are getting even more than that by doing this. What will happen though, depends on how much you're spending, how much using the cards, if they'll continue to extend you that. Because if you're not spending a ton and then you're carrying high balances, they don't continue to extend that high of a limit. So it really depends. The other thing with Chase is, you know, if you're a private client and you have a relationship manager, you can obviously push things through with them and they'll, they'll do the underwriting and talk to the underwriting team for you. So that can be a better way to get higher limits to having these key relationships is really good. But you need a business that's doing usually at least a million a year to do that. But if you're not doing a million year, you probably don't need a $250,000 limit. That's kind of crazy.

[Rich Summers]

So yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what's a way that we can earn 10 cash back through credit cards?

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, so, so here's the thing. Most cashback cards give you 2% back. When we work with people, we're getting them up to 10% back on every $10. Up to 10%. It's insane. But here's the game, here's the key it's not cash back, it's in the form of travel. But when you measure the net, we call it return on spend, cash back for if it's a 2% card, you spend a million bucks, you get 2% back, that's 20,000 in savings for us. You spend a million bucks, you're getting $100,000 back. The difference is you want to use the right cards with the points. So on average, we help clients earn around two to two and a half points for every dollar they spend. Okay. So you get the right cards, that's what they're earning. And then if someone out there uses them well, or like what we do, we redeemed almost a billion points over the last decade. A lot of points for people. We're getting on average around 4 1/2x

[Rich Summers]

the value, the multiple.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. So saying is 4.5 cents per point or 4 1/2x. There's different ways to kind of say that, but so if you spend a dollar and you earn 2, 2 and a half points and then you get 4x the value, 2.5 times 4 is 10, that's 10% back versus a cash back car gets you 2%. So here's the thing, and it's non

[Rich Summers]

taxed and factor in the tax. Maybe it's maybe a little bit above 10.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. At points are tax free. So an example of this, I'll bring you back to that, that engagement trip I did in December with my fiance. So this trip was going to cost 50 grand had I paid for it. Okay. So if I didn't know anything about points or any of this stuff, and I was the average business owner or investor out there, I'm going to take $50,000 out of my company. Right. I'm going to pay 50,000 for the trip. And then let's say my tax rate is 25%. I don't know Carl's and Dennis and all these tax strategies. Right. I'm paying 25% maybe. So I'm paying $12,500 to the government in taxes just to get the 50k to take the trip. So the total effective cost is actually 62,500 for that trip. Now if you use points, not only does the 50 grand get saved, but you don't have to pay taxes because there's no money being pulled out of your business or your investments. And so you're, you're good. Like you can just use the points and there's no tax involved. So it's a game changer. And that's also why people need to use their points for big personal trips first. Don't use them for going to a business conference because you can write that off. Use it for flying your mom to Europe with you on vacation or your family or your girlfriend or your own trip. Things you can't write off. That's where you need to use points first because that's where you're going to get the tax benefit. And especially those international trips is where you're going to get the most savings. So that's always like people is like, when should I use my points? Save the business trips and write them off. Earn points from those. Use your points for your personal trips and always prioritize the international ones first. That's a really key thing. If people don't want to blow this, they need to do it that way. Otherwise they blow all their points on a business flight, you know, domestic, for conferences or whatever, and then they have a big trip to Europe and they're like, well, I don't want to fly economy for nine hours. Oh shit, now I have to drop 15 grand on flights just for, for that. And it's like, well, that was a huge waste when you could have just done it different.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, that's really good. And so break down this, because obviously this is another big play for people out there. It's like, you know, not just knowing which points to use and which platforms, but also like knowing which aircraft type to book within the different airlines. Because a big difference between a brand new Airbus 380 and maybe a 15, 20 year old Airbus 330 in terms of the experience that you're going to get.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, man. Picking the right aircraft on some of these international routes specifically is a massive difference maker. And sometimes it's the aircraft and then sometimes it's the model of the aircraft. So I'll give you an example of Emirates we've talked about a bunch. They have an A350, they have an A380, they have a triple seven. So the A380 is the double decker, right? That has the in flight bar, that has the shower, all that stuff. So if you're flying Emirates and you are seeing Instagram reels cut from this podcast with the shower and the whole thing and you get there and you show up and there's no shower. It's like, you're like, what the what? What the hell? I just did, you know, I did this whole thing, it wasn't there. So especially for like a once in a lifetime experience like that, you want to get it right. So the A380 is the aircraft for that. But the alternative is a triple seven. Now with that though, in my opinion, the actual best first class seat in the world is Emirates first class on the new 777. So there's two versions of it. They have the old triple seven, which is like their kind of, you know, standardized first class seat. But I just flew this one from Geneva to Dubai in May of this year and this is an insane experience. It's a floor to ceiling enclosed suite. It is like the size of this room, it feels like an apartment. And the seat is like, it's actually a seat that was architected by, with NASA technology and designed by Mercedes Benz. So it's a baller experience. But that's only on certain versions of the triple seven aircraft. So even within that aircraft setup, sometimes there's an old version versus a new one. And if you don't get that right, you're going to end up in the experience that you don't know. Another huge one, I mean for domestic travel is going to be the, the transcontinental travel, right? You're flying from San Diego to New York, you're flying from San Diego to Boston or whatever. Certain aircrafts are going to have lay flat seats and lay flat beds, which is really nice for a five, six hour flight, especially a red eye or just long, long translating travel. And certain ones are going to be a recliner chair. And you want to know before you book which one you're getting because that's, that's going to be the quality. A huge difference in quality for you and how rested you feel, how much you enjoy the experience. So that's, that's big.

[Rich Summers]

Do you prefer, let's just say you're flying business class. Do you prefer sitting on the window side or in the, in the middle?

[Eli Fenda]

If I'm buying business, I usually, it depends. You're saying like on a cabin where it's like a two, two, two kind of thing.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, because most of them it's like, it's like the, the windows will have one aisle, so, so one aisle on either window and then the middle will be like two middle seats next to each other.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, it depends if I'm flying with my fiancee or not. So we're flying together, then I'll pick the middle. Two of us sit together so you can talk. So we can talk, hang out, do our whole thing. And then if it's just me, I'll just pick the window. Yeah, in the view.

[Rich Summers]

And that makes Sense the whole vibe. Okay, so easy.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah, easy. Yeah, that's me.

[Rich Summers]

So hands down, best airline for you is Emirates.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, Emirates is across the board for me.

[Rich Summers]

And what's, what's your favorite all time aircraft to fly on?

[Eli Fenda]

You know, I think the, the new Triple 7 I was talking about is

[Rich Summers]

probably my favorite, the best one. Okay.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, the A380. The shower and the bar. I mean that's, it's really tough honestly, because like that's such a cool experience. So actually I'm gonna say the A380 and I think I mentioned this last time around, but part of the reason for that is it's so big and has so many seats if you want to travel with a big crew. Like I hosted a mastermind in Chamonix, France a few years back. Jack and Carlton, a bunch of other entrepreneurs came. We had 40 people, 25 of us flew in that Emirates business class flight. So the seatbelt sign comes off on the flight. Like we all stand up and then 25 of our homies just go to the back bar and we're having like a cocktail party in the sky on the way to Europe. And so that's something that you can really only do on that aircraft. So that kind of gives it a slight edge for me. But beyond that it's a seat the 777 on the new Emirates.

[Rich Summers]

So I was on the Qanus Airbus 380 and they, they didn't have what you're talking about. It's the whole top floor would be business class.

[Eli Fenda]

Yes.

[Rich Summers]

And then the bottom was first class in the front and then economy in the back. But I was in the top floor business. And they have like a little like lounge in the top floor front. You sit down and like, you know, grab a glass of wine or something like that. Maybe like, you know, hang out. They like a little like desk you could work at, but there was no like full service bar or anything like that. But on Emirates it's the whole top floor front. It has a whole service bar.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, it's in the back. But it's a big, it's like the size of this room. I mean it's like maybe 15 by 20. Yeah, there's, it can fit like 20, 30 people. Qatar has another really good bar too there. There's is really also very nice. Very big. Yeah, like each airline's gonna, gonna fit the aircraft differently. So like the setup on Singapore Airlines they also fly an A380. They have the Singapore suites, which is where the double there's a, there's two suites that will come, come together. They take the wall down, they turn it into a double bed in the air.

[Rich Summers]

Damn.

[Eli Fenda]

So that'll be the second Mile High club. Yeah, but people can see right in, so I wouldn't do that.

[Rich Summers]

But what is something like that cost for, for a typical flight? So they, you just want to pay retail.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah. So that one that used to fly from New York to Frankfurt, Germany actually. So I've flown that before on that route and that flight is usually around like 10 grand a piece. And so if you're doing two people, that's, that's 20K. But now they only fly that specific aircraft to, in or out of Singapore. So you can't fly the A380 on Singapore unless you're going all the way there. So it just depends on where you're traveling because you might be going from Singapore to, to Japan. It's less than if you're flying to, you know, somewhere like London maybe or something like that.

[Rich Summers]

And people listening to this might say like, oh, at that point you're dropping 10, 20K for a flight. Why not just like run a private jet? But the private jet game, I mean, you're looking at, depending on the jet, small one might be, you know, eight grand an hour. The bigger ones might, you're looking at, you know, 10, $15,000 an hour.

[Eli Fenda]

Sure.

[Rich Summers]

And some of those flights are, you know, you're talking international. It might be a 10, 12 hour flight.

[Eli Fenda]

Oh yeah.

[Rich Summers]

Round trip, you're looking at 20, 20 hours times 12,000. That's a lot of money.

[Eli Fenda]

It's a lot, yeah. I mean, unless you have a big crew, then everyone's down to drop that. And you can't use points for a private jet, unfortunately, there's no way to do that. So you think about the points factor. It's like, do you pay $0 and get that experience or do you pay a hundred thousand dollars and get your own private jet? I mean, you know, I guess there's a certain level of wealth where like, you know, some people would just be like, I'll fly private. But for the vast majority of people out there, there's still a level of practicality to flying that they want to incorporate. And that's going to be, that's going to be a factor for them. I just went to Tony Robbins UPW this weekend. He owns a 737, so he's in like a little different category. Right. Dan Martell, I know he's, he's got his own aircraft so some people eventually just buy a plane. But even some of these, they're like, there's. I know actually the, the, you'll enjoy this. My friend was the chief of staff for Barry Sternlich, the founder of Starwood Group and W hotels in one hotel guy who created the whole thing. So they were flying around the world, opening one hotel properties all over the world. And that's, that was his last two years I was talking about it. So there's certain aircrafts where like the distance doesn't even make sense because you have to stop and refuel so much. Like you might as well just fly commercial and go direct, you know, and just fly first class. So it's, it's really going to vary on the, on the situation there.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. So last time you came on we, we were talking about Sechet and, and they, they've been out of business since JSX is still around and you know, we're talking, you know, private jet, we're talking first class business class on commercial flights. But it's like, well what's in between? I think in between we got, you know, these, these services. What you call them. What would you call semi private.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

So semi private flying. So what is semi private flying?

[Eli Fenda]

Semi private flying is basically going to feel like basically what you said, an exact middle ground between the two. You can just pay for a ticket. Normally you get to get all the benefits of the private experience where it's like less lines, smaller airport, you Basically just come 15 minutes ahead, walk right on. It's usually a much smaller aircraft with less passengers and a little bit more of a luxury experience. But that's going to be the main difference. It's not like it's your own private entire aircraft to yourself, which is very different. Right. So that's going to be like JSX for example. And depending on where you live that can be amazing because you might just be flying between, you know, Vegas and parts of California a bunch and that's your route. Fantastic. That's going to be a really good option for you. But for a lot of people that don't live on their routes, they're not as connected as a lot of the airlines. And now you might be doing two stops and it's like how much value is on your time? I'd rather just fly on a commercial airline and 100% than do that, but really depends on the travel you're doing.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, such it was interesting because it was, you know, it was, it was a share and I think you paid about like 99 bucks a month in a membership and then for each leg that you wanted to fly, it was, it was, you know, there's a cost to it. But like when I, I flew it one time round trip and on the way back from Scottsdale, San Diego, we were the only people on the, on the plane.

[Eli Fenda]

That's pretty cool.

[Rich Summers]

Which is pretty cool. Jsx. I haven't flown, but that's a little bit more of a commercial vibe. Right. Because they pack a lot more seats in there.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah. It feels like a commercial cab. Almost feels like a, like a domestic. Like the seat feels like a domestic first class seat. And the. But the whole aircraft is that. And there's just way less people. That's kind of what it feels like. So it wasn't like a crazy luxury experience by any stretch.

[Rich Summers]

And is that a membership thing?

[Eli Fenda]

Jsx, I don't think they do a membership. They might, they might, but you can just go online and pay for them and you can earn points from them. You can earn JetBlue miles, which is kind of cool, but you're not gonna be able to redeem points for them.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah, I gotta go to Scottsdale this weekend. I got a, a property out there, but I haven't been in a while. But I'm gonna go out to Scottsdale this weekend.

[Eli Fenda]

Cool.

[Rich Summers]

So I gotta get a flight. So I was thinking, okay, if I go jsx, I gotta go up to Carlsbad.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah.

[Rich Summers]

To go to Scottsdale, sure. If I go out of San Diego, it's closer because I. We live right next to the airport, but I gotta go to Phoenix Airport and then commute from Phoenix to Scottsdale. So trade off either way. I gotta commute either way. So I might do jsx. We'll see.

[Eli Fenda]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe got a bunch of the time at the airport, security lines and all that stuff is a little bit of a difference. For sure.

[Rich Summers]

Yeah. So we'll see. Eli, dude, I appreciate you coming on, man. Dropping so much value, so much game. Where can folks get in touch with you? They want to learn more about all this content, but more importantly, they want to learn more about your services.

[Eli Fenda]

Sure. Yeah. So Instagram is just. Eli travel guy. That's going to be the main place I'm posting, sharing behind the scenes of how I'm booking stuff we're doing with clients. And then our site isFreedomTravel Systems dot com. We could just do forward slash summers and we'll have some free bonuses for people. I have something called the CEO points Playbook I put together. This is my entire playbook of how I've done this for myself the last 10 years, saving around half a million dollars in travel in the last few years alone, how we've saved tens of millions of dollars for clients. So that playbook covers a lot of what we covered, but in a more structured and sequence way. So that's a free gift. And then if they want to learn about concierge services, how to make it really easy to turn their points into luxury travel without all the hassle trying to figure it on their own, even if they have an assistant, then they can set up a time with our team to talk about what would look like to get a concierge travel and points advisor.

[Rich Summers]

I love it. Save the landing page one more time for listeners.

[Eli Fenda]

Freedomtravelsystems.com forward/summers.

[Rich Summers]

There it is. And Eli, dude, next time, bro, I want to, I want to go out to one of these mastermind trips.

[Eli Fenda]

I know, dude.

[Rich Summers]

Japan.

[Eli Fenda]

We got one.

[Rich Summers]

Let me know this year.

[Eli Fenda]

Europe.

[Rich Summers]

What city?

[Eli Fenda]

It's depends on when this pod drops. I can't say because it's a little surprise, but it's going to be, it's going to be very James Bondi. Let's put it that way. I like James Bond.

[Rich Summers]

Well, let, let me, let me know I'm interested. And always a good time catching up, dude.

[Eli Fenda]

Amen.

[Rich Summers]

You the man. He's Eli Fenda, the travel guy. I'm rich. Shimmers listeners. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you guys in the next one pen.