The Cost of Open Borders: Joe Abraham’s Story | The Riley Gaines Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Cost of Open Borders: Joe Abraham’s Story" | The Riley Gaines Show

Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Riley Gaines
Guest: Joe Abraham (Angel Dad)

---

Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Riley Gaines sits down with Joe Abraham, whose daughter Katie was killed by an illegal immigrant in a drunk driving incident. The conversation delves deep into the personal grief experienced by families like Joe's, critiques of immigration and sanctuary state policies, the lack of political accountability, and the need for policy reform. The episode serves both as a memorial to Katie’s legacy and a call for national attention to the consequences of current border policies.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: State of the Union & Political Context

• Riley expresses frustration at perceived prioritization of illegal immigrants over American citizens by the Democratic Party, as highlighted during recent State of the Union events.
  • [00:34] “Watching the Democrats theatrics at the State of the Union, really…their hatred, what I would call it for America and its people. It just makes me so angry.” – Riley
• The episode introduces the theme of "righteous anger" and the need to refocus on American lives and security.

2. Remembering Katie Abraham

• Joe paints a warm, vivid portrait of Katie as compassionate, athletic, and joyful.
  • [06:20] “She was very sensitive to students that maybe weren’t fitting in quite as well. She would just go out there and try to get them pulled in and never left anyone out... she soaked it in like a sponge. She loved people, music, just, you know, getting together with family.” – Joe
• Joe recounts enduring two devastating losses in quick succession: his father in Dec 2024 and his daughter Katie in Jan 2025.

3. The Night of the Tragedy

• Joe details the incident: Katie and friends were stopped at a light in Urbana, IL, when a drunk driver, later identified as an illegal immigrant using a false identity, rear-ended them at 80mph. Katie died instantly; another friend died the next day, and three more were injured.
  • [09:12] “They were at a stoplight, idle, and they were smashed in the rear almost 80 miles an hour... He was a illegal alien... a Guatemalan national, but he was using a Mexican national alias.” – Joe
• The driver, wanted under an alias, had left Illinois and was apprehended in Texas before crossing into Mexico.
• Joe shares the unbearable task of informing Katie’s sister about her death.
  • [12:00] “What haunts me to this day, Riley, is the time we had to walk into her apartment and the reaction we got from her sister that will haunt me the rest of my life.” – Joe

4. Policy Failure & Political Accountability

• Joe criticizes Illinois’ sanctuary policies and Governor Pritzker for enabling a system that allowed the killer to remain in the state unnoticed and unsupported.
  • [15:45] “You’ve kicked the side door open in the middle of the night and you’re letting hundreds of thousands of people in. What are you doing for these folks?” – Joe
• He sent Governor Pritzker a letter with factual questions seeking accountability, but received only silence or deflection.
  • [17:20] “What I got from the governor’s office was really nothing, right? Just absolutely zero. These arrogant, aloof people, they don’t really… they’re not accountable to the voters.” – Joe
• Joe recounts how Pritzker’s office hid behind a statement from Katie’s mother, who disagreed with aspects of the response but not the broader critique of immigration policy.

5. The Human Cost & Political “Cowardice”

• Riley and Joe discuss the lack of empathy and response from politicians and their apparent prioritization of potential new voters over current citizens.
  • [21:13] “It’s a one-sided compassion…The citizens are just being taken advantage of.” – Joe
• Both lament the culture of political self-interest and the “erasure” of families like the Abrahams from public discourse.
  • [22:44] “It’s so inconvenient for them. They want us to go away. They want to make us invisible.” – Joe

6. Connections with Other Angel Families

• Joe reflects on meeting many other families affected by similar tragedies, stressing that their stories are often dismissed or minimized.
  • [24:23] “The number of angel families we have met along the way…is so heartbreaking, honestly. And even the survivors of some of these crimes… all preventable with rational policy.” – Joe

7. On Using Katie’s Story Politically

• Joe is mindful of his daughter’s name being politicized, but ultimately decides it is important if her story can save lives.
  • [27:28] “Katie would absolutely have rejected the way she died… She was a compassionate person, but she knew fair play. This wasn’t fair play.” – Joe
• He describes the painful psychological aftermath, including vivid dreams of Katie.
  • [29:52] “There were times I would just want to go to sleep because I want to see her. …Those dreams stopped late May last year. She came to me as vivid as I’m talking to you. She hugged me, she kissed me, we were both crying and she says I’m okay. And I’ve never seen her in my dream since.” – Joe

8. Pathways to Accountability & Reform

• Joe calls for the end of sanctuary city/state policies and for rational, compassionate, but responsible immigration reform with proper vetting and support systems.
  • [31:30] “Sanctuary cities and states have to stop…put in a front end process to at least vet people and help them…Because what’s happening now on the back end…will never look good, but it ought to be done.” – Joe
• Emphasizes the need for political accountability—suggesting some responsible officials should even face legal consequences.
  • [33:00] “What I’d love to see is some people going to jail because I don’t think anything’s going to stop unless people are being, you know, behind bars.” – Joe

9. A Message to Listeners & Call to Action

• Joe asks for more public scrutiny of political leaders, urging voters not to blindly trust politicians and to support rational policy.
  • [35:22] “Don’t put everything you have into political leaders. They are very self interested...We can do better and we must do better.” – Joe
• He stresses that calls for sensible immigration policy are not rooted in racism or bigotry, but in a desire for safety and accountability.

---

Notable Quotes

• On political priorities:
  “[President Trump asked] If you agree with this statement stand: The American government's first priority is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens. Not a single…virtually the entirety of the Democratic Party sat down.” – Riley [20:04]

• On Illinois’ policies:
  “He was a Guatemalan national, but he was using a Mexican national alias...Illinois did no background check, they allowed him to roam.” – Joe [09:12]

• On grief and accountability:
  “Her reaction...that will haunt me the rest of my life…Katie’s with me every night. When I wake up, Katie’s with me. When I go to sleep, Katie’s with me.” – Joe [12:00]
  “People like Mayorkas…insidious person who did this on purpose.” – Joe [31:50]

• On being erased:
  “It’s so inconvenient for them. They want us to go away. They want to make us invisible.” – Joe [22:44]

• On everyday actions:
  “Don’t put everything you have into political leaders…We can do better and we must do better.” – Joe [35:22]

---

Important Timestamps

• State of the Union and Righteous Anger – [00:34]–[04:20]
• Katie’s Story & Family Background – [06:20]–[08:37]
• Details of the Incident & Aftermath – [09:12]–[14:45]
• Letter to Gov. Pritzker & Policy Questions – [15:45]–[20:04]
• Reflection on Political Cowardice & Angel Families – [21:13]–[26:57]
• On Using Katie’s Name Politically & Legacy – [27:28]–[30:55]
• What Accountability Should Look Like – [31:30]–[34:09]
• Advice to Listeners & Broader Message – [35:22]–[36:57]

---

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, often raw, and intensely personal. Riley’s direct, unapologetic style is matched by Joe’s vulnerability and conviction, emphasizing faith, family, and patriotism throughout. The episode is somber yet resolute, using Katie’s story as a platform for urgent civic engagement and critical policy discussion.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode presents a powerful examination of the human cost of immigration and sanctuary policies, highlighting the lived reality behind policy debates. Joe Abraham’s story of loss and unheeded pleas for accountability is woven together with sharp critiques of political leadership and a call for principled, people-centered reform.

Transcript

[A]

Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the og it kicked off this whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.

[B]

I cannot wait until we look back as a society and we all recognize how absolutely insane and terrifying it is that an entire political party admitted to caring more about illegal immigrants than American citizens. Hopefully it's not wishful thinking to imagine that we will get there again someday. Although it seems like with every passing day we are getting further and further from unity. Watching the Democrats theatrics at the State of the Union, really, their disdain and their contempt and their hatred, what I would call it for America and its people. It just makes me so angry. And maybe after today's episode, you'll get a better idea as to why. Truthfully, I call it Righteous Anger. First, before we get into that, I want to tell you about today's sponsor. It's Cozy Earth. I have been trying to do a better job about actually resting. Not just going to bed, but resting, sleeping. I did not realize how much what I sleep in actually matters until I started wearing Cozy Earth pajamas and using their sheets. Their bamboo sheet set is made from viscose from bamboo. It is unreal. It's that kind of soft where you put it on and it's like immediately you feel a level of stress just released off of your shoulders. It's lightweight. It's still very cozy, and it doesn't trap heat like cotton does, which as a postpartum mom nursing in the middle of the night, I really value that. They drape well. They feel really well. And their classic cuddle blanket. I have two. I have one downstairs on my couch and one up here in the studio with me, which the studio is actually in my attic, so it's really cold in here when it's cold outside. I love this blanket. It's got like the perfect comforting weight to it. Of course, it's February and in February we talk a lot about showing love to other people, but you can show some love to yourself. Highly, highly Recommend going to cozyearth.com checking out their items, their sleepwear, their loungewear, their classic cuddle blanket. You can use my code gains G A I N E S my last name for 20% off. You actually have a 100 night sleep trial. You won't need it, but you have it and a 10 year warranty. So cozyearth.com gains for 20% off. If you get a post purchase survey, be sure to tell them that you heard about it from me. Now I've had the opportunity to attend a few State of the Unions now, both under President Biden and under President Trump. I have seen the performance with my own eyes. Last year I sat in the gallery as Democrats held up their paddles. Maybe you can remember one side said lie on it or something to the effect. I remember last year all of the women, The Democratic women, plus Tim Mc, Tim McBride, Congressman Tim McBride actually showed up wearing pink to symbolize how they stand with women and for women's rights, which is again crazy considering these people don't even know how to define a woman. All of that being said, I have never been as absolutely gobsmacked as I was when President Trump asked this to the chamber earlier this week.

[A]

So tonight I'm inviting every legislature to join with my administration in reaffirming a fundamental principle. If you agree with this statement, then stand up and show your support. The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens.

[B]

That is the easiest applause line ever presented in American politics. Yet the Democrats stayed seated. These are un American petulant toddlers. Quite frankly, I don't really understand how it's not disqualifying for a member of Congress to be unable to pledge allegiance to, to America, to the country they were elected to serve, and to its citizens. Like I'm serious, like I don't know how that is not treasonous. It seems to me as if that is an act of betrayal. Anyways, Trump, he knew what he was doing in asking this really. It was a master class in political chess. The Democrats, they walked right into that trap. Which, that being said, I feel like we can often get wrapped up in who can score the most political points on things like this. But today's guests and people like Joe Abraham, they live every single day understanding the destructive and deadly nature of the policies that the Democrats stand for, or I guess in this case, that they do not stand for. Joe Abraham is an angel dad, meaning that he is the dad of a child killed by an illegal alien back in January of 2025. So just over a year ago, when his daughter Katie was only 20 years old, the car that she was riding in was rear ended at nearly 80 miles an hour by a drunk driver. She and another person died. Three others were injured Katie died immediately gone before Joe and her mom ever even had the chance to say goodbye. It was a hit and run. And so the driver fled from the state of Illinois and was later apprehended in Texas, where it was then discovered he was in this country illegally. I've had the honor of meeting Joe Person and I will just say this, that he is such a fantastic steward of the legacy that Katie leaves behind. I hope you guys enjoy today's episode with angel dad, Joe Abraham. Well, Joe, thank you for joining. The Riley Gaines show actually gave a little background on Katie and just the unthinkable horrors that your family has faced in the introduction. But before we talk about policy or State of the Union or any of that, can you just tell us about her? Like, who was Katie?

[A]

Katie was just this such a bright little person. She was one of these kids especially, you know, if you think about even back to grade school, she always was made people feel seen. She used to just get everyone engaged. She was very sensitive to students that maybe weren't fitting in quite as well. And she would just go out there and try to get them pulled in and never left anyone out. She was really caring and compassionate, but she also was, you know, with this, with all the sports she played was understood fair play and doing things right way and wrong way. She loved the water, Riley. I mean, right from the get go, our only vacations were to Wisconsin. Dolls, right? That's basically all we got to do because she just wanted to go where the water was. She was a swimmer in high school or all the way through and then high school and a water polo player. She really looked up to people like you who were, you know, excelled in their swimming. And she knew how difficult it was and the commitment you had to put in. And, you know, she was all in and she used to do so great. She loved music, she loved life. She soaked it in like a sponge. She loved people, music, just, you know, getting together with family. And it's such a devastating loss, at least for our family and her friends. It's. She had all these different friend groups, but it's just. It's just life just does not feel the same anymore. It's. It's. It's completely without her and her spirit and her laughter and her wit and her. She was one of these kids that could read a room all the way through. Whether it was adults in the room or kids. She just could understand what was happening and just fit right in. It was kind of amazing to watch her sort of do that. So she's been a huge loss. And then my father died December 26, 2024. Three weeks later, Katie was killed January 19, 2025. And those two were like huge characters in the family. So it was a really, really tough time.

[B]

I, we talked a little bit prior to recording just about faith. And I hope you feel a level of comfort, obviously, the situation and the circumstances unimaginable, especially losing two people that you loved and cared for so very deeply. But hopefully there's a level of comfort in knowing that they're together and that one day you will certainly see them again. You mentioned that day in, in January of 2025. Would you be willing to, to share just a little bit of, of what happened and, and how ultimately you found out?

[A]

Yeah, she was her. No, this is a water polo group. So some of her friends were at University of Illinois in Urbana, Illinois. So her and a friend from, from up northern Illinois went down to visit them and just get together. What 20 year olds do, college students, right? They just get together, go visit with one another. They were just on the streets of Urbana, Illinois. JB Pritzker's Urbana, Illinois. You know, he tells us how safe everything is. They were at a stoplight, idle, and they were smashed in the rear almost 80 miles an hour. Just, you know, things showed that there was no swerving or breaking or trying to avoid it. Just barreled into the back of that car, decimated it. Ruined five lives in that car. Katie, unfortunately, you know, first responders when they got there, they kind of had to pry that car open. I believe she was already dead when they were pulling her out of the car. One of her friends that she went down with died the next day. And then there were three other injuries. So, you know, he was a illegal alien here illegally. He was a Guatemalan national, but he was using a Mexican national alias. Now, the federal enforcement knew this, but since the state of Illinois sanctuary, they did no. And even if they did do a background check, they allowed him to roam around Illinois without any issues. So he fled. Right. Riley, think about this. Here's the character that, that we're, we're standing behind. He, he decimates five lives in a, in a vehicle his first instinct is to get out of. So that was the 19th of January, the 20th. Donald Trump came in, shut down the border, let enforcement do their jobs. They did apprehend him right before he got to the Mexico border. So he is incarcerated. And by the way, now that he's incarcerated, he's being treated and this is through. I was at the federal court, when they were talking about this. It's in the transcripts. He's now being treated for hiv. So he had HIV in our communities. Was he as reckless with his hiv? And I'm not making a moral judgment here. What I'm saying is Illinois mismanaged this whole and consistently, not just our story. Everybody's mismanaged this system so severely, it failed everybody, right? So they allowed this guy in. He wasn't who he said he was. We don't know how he was making his living. He had HIV in the communities. Illinois didn't try to help him or take care of him, didn't try to help him assimilate. He didn't speak English or Spanish. He spoke tai chi. He didn't read or write. Never had a formal day of education. And Illinois just kind of left him on his own. Hopefully, he'll spend decades in jail now. So good for Illinois for ruining kind of everybody in this situation. So, you know, when he fled, we're thinking, you know, what's. What's happening. All we are. All we're doing is just. Kids are on the street. So detectives called me. We talked to the detectives, and they said Katie was killed. And you can't imagine. I wish I could explain it. I just think of, you know, being out in a dark wilderness, just wandering, trying to find our new path, our new purpose without Katie. You know, you think you have someone the rest of your life. And the joy of our lives are watching the kids grow and be productive, and that's just been ripped away in such a violent, evil way. So we're still in that dark place, and we're trying, and we have faith and we're trying to kind of get to a. To a better place. It's just. She was such a loving, joyous person. It's very difficult. But think about this and the lives that are impacted. So we couldn't even really process this. The first thing in our minds were like, oh, no, we have to pull ourselves together. Katie and her sister were so close. So close. The minute they woke up, to the time they went to bed, they were always together. So her sister's already texting us, hey, what's going on? Katie's location's in a police station. What's happening? She's not responding. I'm getting really worried now. Katie's sister's in college, five and a half hours away. So we have to pull ourselves together, get into a car in a snowstorm and drive five and a half hours to go talk to her. Sister to tell her about her, you know, Katie's death. And what haunts me to this day, Riley, is the, the time we had to walk into her apartment and the reaction we got from her sister that will haunt me the rest of my life. Her reaction and her, you know, that day, we held her, we spoke with her, we tried to comfort her. And it will never leave me. It's with me every night. Katie's with me every night. When I wake up, Katie's with me. When I go to sleep, Katie's with me. So I think with the politicians and these, you know, I think uncaring or dismissive people say, well, you know, crime, whatever crime happens here and there or what, when it's so preventable, Riley. And it's, it's so impactful that they dismiss us like that. It's, it's so hurtful and it just rubs salt in the wound. These are people that don't have skin in the game, whose North Star is their ideology. They don't get it. You know, and, and to see Donald Trump to at least step up and say, hey, they're real, they matter. And, and their lives shouldn't have ended was, Was something that we really do appreciate.

[B]

I try to put myself in your shoes, I guess, from two, two standpoints down. Number one, as a new mom, it's an. It's just unfathomable, truthfully, like it's unimaginable. And then also as a sister, having sisters, myself, hearing that news and how it would just absolutely wreck and upend your life as you knew it. I just, it. I can't even. There's really no words for that. And of course, you mentioned Governor Pritzker and this situation and others like yours being entirely mismanaged, which I think is, to put it lightly, I understand you sent your governor, who has made Illinois sanctionary sanctuary state, a letter with some questions that you wanted answered. You did a fantastic job. I saw an op ed, actually, and Fox Digital, can you highlight some of the questions that you had? And I think, more importantly, if you ever received a response from Governor Pritzker or his office.

[A]

So, yes, we sent a letter and it was not ideology. The ideology wasn't the main thrust of that letter. It was just factual questions that we were trying to ask the governor, because, remember, the governor, you know, at one minute we're in Congress with the governor who completely avoided us, didn't talk to us, didn't spend two seconds, didn't. Couldn't care less about victims like us, but he Was in Congress telling the Republicans, immigration is the federal, you know, responsibility. The enforcement's a federal responsibility. It's not my responsibility. My responsibility is the state of Illinois. But then he turns around and then he nullifies federal law. He just said, it's your responsibility. He nullifies it and clearly has put nothing in its place. He's just. This is a. This is a free for all in here in Illinois. He's got hundreds of thousands of people he doesn't even know that are roaming around our state. So some of the questions I really wanted to know were on both sides was, was, what did you do for the people? You're. You've kicked the side door open in the middle of the night, and you're letting hundreds of thousands of people in. What are you doing for these folks? So take our guy who killed Katie. Couldn't speak English, couldn't speak Spanish, didn't read or write, never had a day of education, had hiv. What did you do to help this guy? Was he. Did you have a system in place that helped him assimilate, understand the language, the culture? What's the right and wrong to do? Did you help him with his disease? Did you try to treat it? Did you try to understand that he was a sick person? There was, like, nothing. So those were some of the questions. The other questions were simple, like, hey, how did this guy, by the way, in the police report had a driver's license number? So explain to me. Just want to understand a guy who's never. Doesn't speak the language, doesn't know the culture, and never had a day of education, how did he pass that driver's test? I took the driver's test, actually study for it, right? So then. And then, if he's on the road doing a driver's test, how is he understanding the signage and how is he understanding what to do? So just simple questions like this. So what? You know what? What I got from the governor's office was really nothing, right? Just absolutely zero. These arrogant, aloof people, they don't really. They're not accountable to the voters somehow, Riley. There must be something happening. I don't know, maybe there's ballots tied to these illegals that they don't necessarily need the voters. They know certain voters are always going to be behind them due to ideology, and they just need some ballots here and there, and they don't really care about the people. But let's. Let me get into something here, Riley, that I rarely talk about just because I don't. Katie's biological mom was sort of against the operation of Midway Blitz that was named for Katie, which was a targeted operation to remove criminal illegal aliens out of Chicago. So Katie's mom didn't necessarily agree with Katie's name being tied to that, and I did. So I allowed them to use her name. So Katie's mom did write an op ed that said, I'm not real thrilled with this, that type of thing. So the governor's office, the only response they gave was, you don't have the full story, Fox Digital, because they reached out to them for a comment. The mom. Here's an op ed the mom wrote. Now, the mom didn't write about immigration in general and the lack of responsible policies, nothing like that. It was just the mis targeted operation. So that's what they sent to the. To the reporter. Now think about this, Riley. You have a governor who supposed responsibilities as citizens. He is hiding behind a grieving mom who disagreed with one operation. That's why he won't talk to me. I can't get this figured out. So he has not reached out to me, father to father, like Donald Trump has. President Trump looked me in the eye, father to father, talk to me about it. So this is our strong, tough governor, and he's going to hide behind a grieving mom. It's amazing to me how he sort of gets away with some of the things and is unresponsive to his own citizens. I am still a citizen. I have simple questions and you need to respond to those. But as of today, I've got nothing back.

[B]

It's a good point you make, and it was something I thought of in watching the State of the Union where you had, I think, the most telling moment of any State of the Union in history. When President Trump asked directly if you agree with this statement stand the American government's first priority is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens. And not a single, well, maybe a maybe Fetterman stood. But virtually the entirety of the Democratic Party sat down. And it was something I thought, you know, how could they do this? But the thought crossed my mind, maybe they don't want to disparage their voting base. And who is their voting base, especially in states like California. We actually just had Nick Shirley on the last episode and talking about California voter fraud that's happening there. So maybe they don't want to disparage their. Their voting base. I mean, is there really any other reason? Do you think these people, people like Pritzker, really believe this? Because they love words like compassion and empathy. But what happened to you and your family and other families like yours. It's not compassionate at all.

[A]

No, you're, you're right on target there. It's a one sided compassion, I'd say to your point, they care about their, their new voting block, I guess and the citizens are sort of left to. They're just being taken advantage of. So yeah, he's not a caring man. He's not a compassionate man. The Illinois legislature think they're doing all the right things but really if you think about the way they've. The whole system fails. You know, you nullify federal law and you add no guardrails. You just fail everyone. You fail the victims and you continue to re victimize them and then you also fail the ones coming in. You don't. You know, there's no shame in vetting because your responsibility is the citizens of your state first. And you don't give special privileges or sacrifice one group of people for another. Right. You don't give special privileges here because you think it's going to benefit you because you're politically self interested while you sacrifice another group because not everyone dies, Riley. Not every victim's a death like Katie. Katie certainly got a. The death sentence with these policies. But there are so many victims that. And then the families of these victims and there's just so many that are out there and they are so cavalier in their response. Like it's. They want to erase us. It's so inconvenient for them. They want us to go away. They want to make us invisible. And that's. That must be the reason why Riley, that he has not responded to me as father, father, citizen to governor because this would upset his voting base. I think there's no real rational understanding why a governor of a state wouldn't speak to a citizen of his state. A lifelong Illinoisan and I know how corrupt the state is, but they always had some kind of guardrails to it. But right now there's just nothing. And then the governor just dismisses you. It's so. The disrespect he showed Katie is so disgusting to me. And to your point, at the State of the Union you can't stand up for some of these simple ideals. It's so odd to me. I don't really understand exactly what's going on, but we've got some evil folks running things.

[B]

Yeah, that's truth really. Cowards, I think, is what they are. I think if you were to ask them one on one, and I think this is probably why Governor Pritzker doesn't want to meet with you because maybe deep down he agrees with you, but he's too much of a coward or maybe there's too much money behind it, or he's too obsessed with his powerful position that he's in to actually be able to admit it to you. But I don't think he could look you in the eyes and tell you that he doesn't. So they're just, they're cowards. But you said President Trump, he has been a fantastic advocate in carrying on the voices and the legacies and the stories of people like Katie. You were just at the White House for his angel family's remembrance ceremony in that, have you been able to, events like this, the position that you're in, have you been able to connect with other families who have experienced similar loss?

[A]

Yeah, it's very, it's very sad. You know, the Democrats try to make it sound like this is not a real thing. And the number of angel families we have met along the way in this, in this awful journey we're in is so heartbreaking, honestly. And even the survivors of some of these crimes, like these kids that are in wheelchairs now and all preventable just with some rational policy and coherent policy and not radical, extreme, one sided policies, you wouldn't have this, right? This isn't about, well, everyone drunk drives and citizens do this and citizens create more crime. This is not an argument. What you're saying is if you take it to the logical end, we have drunk drivers in America, so we should bring in more drunk drivers. We have crime in America, so we should bring in more crime. And to romanticize people from a third world country. We are immigrants. My parents came from a third world country and they would be the first ones to tell you, you cannot romanticize. You cannot. There's not 100% purity in the people coming from third world countries. And this is just naive to believe that. And so yes, you should have some amount of vetting and health screens and understand who's coming into the country. Are we, how it's become so immoral to, to be lawful and follow rules and, and it's moral to, you know, do the opposite. For example, really rushing the border with millions of people, a free for all people die. You know, where were the, the same people in Minnesota down at the border saying, wait a minute, children are being lost, they're being exploited. The cartels have, have a new billion dollar industry moving people around. People are dying in the journey, people are getting raped, robbed. I mean, where were they? This is only you know, they talk about two people up in Minnesota who put themselves in a very bad position. They're partly responsible for that. Should anyone die? No, but they were partly responsible for their. Unlike say, Katie, who was just an innocent person on the streets. They don't care about her. They didn't care about these same people when they were rushing the border and being taken advantage of and exploited. So, so this is all ideology. It's very sad to watch these people who have just one North Star and all that is, is their politics. It's a sad life, I think for them. They're missing so much by, by behaving in, in this way.

[B]

Yeah. For even calling those things out. For drawing attention to the fact that over 300,000 children were missing under President Biden's open border policies. For even calling things like that out. You and I are called like right wing extremists. And that's probably one of the kinder things that they call us, I guess. With that being said, do you ever worry about Katie's name being used politically and how do you navigate that?

[A]

So I absolutely think about that. And when DHS came to us and said they wanted to use Katie's name, I, you know, we asked a bunch of questions. We talked to dozens and dozens of ICE agents, support staff, leadership. This wasn't something we went in haphazardly. We, we did some research. You know, then we really assessed. At least I assessed like, okay, what would Katie, Katie would absolutely have rejected the way she died down? She was a compassionate person, but she knew fair play. This wasn't fair play. She had, she didn't have a chance. Right. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time and someone being supported by the state that really should have, there should have been some guardrails there. So I said yes. At the end of the day, I said, I think this is a good thing, Katie. This is going to save lives and it's going to be unfortunate because people won't understand that there are lives and victims being saved here because it's not tangible. The criminals are gone. The crimes won't happen. So you can't see that. Right. So that's always a, a tough, tough thing to sell. Right. Because you're doing the right things. Now. The other thing was it's, it's so disheartening. Not only were we, you know, erased or, or, or ignored. What at. When we were at. In June 2025 at the Oversight Committee hearing, JB Pritzkers, his utter contempt and disrespect Towards Katie changed my. That's the day honestly, the light went on, said, oh, I get it. These people are awful. They're. They're self serving. They don't care. They. They want to be just. They're all power. That's the only thing they care about. And that's why I started speaking out. I'm like, Katie's name is better than this and she should know, people should know who she is because she is way better than any of these folks. So that's what kind of changed to me. But we do, we don't do everything and I'm not out there always looking for it. But I've certainly talked to anyone that wants to talk about Katie and, and the traged that happen to her. But honestly I, I want to see some accountability. People like me, Orcus is of the world and in the, in the prior administration that orchestrated this type of chaos, why are they not being held to account? Why do we have to. And all these angel families and victims have to suffer while they sort of ride off in the sunset and live their great lives. Personally, I don't know how they sleep at night. There's. I clearly no conscience there with all the blood on their hands. But you know, meanwhile we don't sleep. I mean, I can tell you a story. After she died, I used to have these vivid dreams, right? Like just like it was her and I together again. We. I could hold her and. And there were times I would just want to go to sleep because I want to see her. And your mind plays these tricks on you because then you wake up and you think she's alive and it starts that cycle all over again. And, and some nights you don't sleep. I went a couple nights not sleeping because I didn't want to go through that hurt again. So you sleep and you get these vivid dreams. Now I. Those dreams stopped late May last year. She came to me as vivid as I'm talking to you. She hugged me, she kissed me. We were both crying and she says I'm okay. And I've never seen her in my dream since.

[B]

It's just a psychological. The psychological warfare of that that you and your family and families like yours are left to deal with is. It shows how it extends beyond even just the victims to their families as well. And so I guess kind of wrapping up here is accountability. What does that look like? And policies that you are advocating for on behalf of Katy and on behalf of American citizens, quite frankly. What do those two things look like to you?

[A]

Well, I think first the sanctuary cities and states have to have to stop. You want immigration, that's fine. You want to nullify federal law, fine. Put in a front end process to at least vet people and at least help them and then help the communities. Right. And because what's happening now on the back end after you've completely messed up the front end, people like Donald Trump and Tom Holman and Todd Lyons, they have to clean up this mess and it will never look good, but they ought to do it. It needs to be done. So I would like to see those policies revamped, got rid of and have some kind of rational, not radical, extreme policies that we have today, accountability wise. I would love to see why people like Mayorkas, who, who is this insidious person who did this on purpose and there are probably others, I can't really say Joe Biden, I don't think he was there. But it was people behind the throne there that were creating this chaos. And then the JB Pritzkers of the world. Why does he get off clean, scot free with all this chaos and death in our state? Here's a guy who's in Chicago says well we only have four or five hundred deaths a year. That's not so bad. Can you imagine? This is what our governor says. He ought to just go away. He's never been an impressive guy. He's inherited. We talk about this, he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. And what has he really done? If you look at some of the tapes he's got with Bogojevich, he's a corrupt guy. He hasn't really done anything. He's inherited everything. I promise you this Riley. Our family, every dollar we had has been earned and earned the hard way. Nothing was ever given to us. My father used to actually tell me if I ever accepted anything from this beautiful country and this government, I would hang myself in the garage before I would do that. They offered us so much opportunity and they took advantage of and he did the right things. And then you have these people that do everything wrong and there's just no accountability. What I'd love to see is some people going to jail because I don't think if anything's going to stop unless people are being, you know, behind bars. Let's be honest with you now, is that ever going to happen? They protect themselves, the politicians, so I don't hold my breath on it. But there's got to be some type of accountability and I don't think we're done looking into that. I mean we were in Congress on Tuesday. We were talking to some of the chairman and the legislatures to talk about what can we do from a legislative standpoint retroactively that we can hold some of these people responsible. I don't know. I'm hoping something like that would happen.

[B]

I'm so glad you mentioned Mayorkas because I think he is one of the most just smug people, at least that I have witnessed served in a government role in my lifetime. One of the most smug people. I'm so glad you mentioned him and I agree with you on Biden where yes, of course he takes a lot of blame and there's always fingers pointed back at him. But there were other people I believe running these operations. You know, in talking to you, me and my husband, we've gotten to experience a lot of firsts this year with our daughter being born last September. So of course we had our first Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and those are very joyous moments for us. But in thinking about the first that you and your family had this year, it makes me feel a lot more grateful for the first that we had. And so in continuing to honor Katie's legacy, I imagine that you will continue speaking and you do. You are such a good steward of her and that legacy she leaves behind. What can we do as everyday people?

[A]

What I would love to see and especially in Illinois as I live here but really across the country, just some. This one sided, not only compassion but to really understand. Don't put everything you have into political leaders. They are very self interested. If you think of Governor Pritzker, Illinois is not his goal like he's looking for other things. So to for example the Renee Goods of the world, why are you putting yourself out there? Your life on the line, you have children at home for corrupt self serving politicians. I just want this country to take a breath and people like Pritzker and the voters to take a pause and really look at what they're doing as far as policy and how it affects this nation. We can do better and we must do better. We have kids and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and they ought to be policies that protect the people in your nation. First. That doesn't mean again to your point earlier, you said they're racists and bigots. The false choice isn't unlimited unvetted immigration or you're a racist and a bigot. Put something in that's rational and then have that moving forward. Do it the right way, not the wrong way. This was not an orderly right way. And anyone who believes that is just again their north stars, their ideology and that's just, I'm sorry that's not good enough.

[B]

Yeah their ideology is their religion but fortunately for people like you and I at least as I understand it I think we both understand that we are on this planet for such a short little blip of time and we fight for the hope and the promise of eternal life. Life and that's right there's, there's comfort in their security in that and strength and I think you embody those things and so thank you Joe for, for coming on to talk about Katie. Just really special to hear.

[A]

Riley, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for having me and letting me talk about Katie. She was such a great person and you know just a tremendous loss. I really think this world and this state is just a less place without her in it.

[B]

Well I agree so thank you Joe.

[A]

Thank you.