← The Riley Gaines Show
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- [00:05]
A
There's an unspoken rule in today's culture. Believe all women unless it's inconvenient or unless believing women would require you to question the man in the situation. Then suddenly the woman speaking out, she is questioned, she is dismissed or at worst she is attacked. Today we are talking to Brooke Slusser. We talked to Kaylee Ray on the Riley Gaines show a few weeks ago. I encourage you to go back and watch that episode. Might give you a little context for today, but I guess 30,000 foot overview. Brooke Slusser played on the women's volleyball team, women's and air quotes the women's volleyball team at San Jose State University. She found out that a man that she had been playing with, that she had been living with, was posing as a woman. The institution that she trusted, that she believed had her interests at heart. Her university lied to her, they stripped her of her ability to consent. Really horrific stuff. We're talking to her today. She went public about unknowingly sharing a team and these close living spaces like apartments, like hotels on overnight team trips with this male teammate. And now she's really been at the center of major backlash online. So if you are a praying person, I encourage you to pray for her. I pray that she leans on her faith and her creator throughout all of the crazy times. If you want to hear about them, stay tuned. Listen here. Well, Brooke, thank you for joining the Riley Gaines Show. Before we get into anything, we were just talking off air about this like glorious collection of metals behind you. Tell us about this.
- [01:47]
B
Oh my gosh. I'm at my parents house in Texas and they have like a whole metal room with all of me and my sister's plaques and awards and like I'm on my half of the room her, the other half of the room's like all of her stuff. So it's just like everything we've ever gotten in volleyball, beach and indoor. So it's kind of crazy. But it's since I was like 11 that it started.
- [02:09]
A
So I love that and it does. It speaks to how it's a lifelong journey to be able to really compete and succeed at the highest level and of course trust parents to create a shrine of their, their children in their own homes. I love that so much. Gosh, you have been all over the place in terms of your social media presence, in terms of your advocacy. I'm sure so many people know you or at least can account some of the things that you have gone through over the past few years. But can you give us just a Little insight on your experience playing volleyball, especially at the collegiate level. And I think what's interesting, too, is going from a place like the University of Alabama, a big SEC school, to then San Jose State University. Can you kind of walk us through that first?
- [02:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think the reason I loved Alabama so much, I mean, I committed when I was 14 years old, so.
- [03:03]
A
Oh, my gosh. I didn't even know you could commit when you're that young.
- [03:05]
B
Well, that was before they came up with all of those rules of having to wait until like, your junior year or something to commit. So I committed, like, two weeks before they came up with that rule. Wow. I knew nothing.
- [03:16]
A
She must have been in, like, seventh or eighth grade at the time.
- [03:19]
B
Yeah, I think I was just finishing my freshman year of high school. Oh, wow. Which is insane that someone would allow someone that age to make that decision. But besides the point, it was just like, Alabama was totally my comfort zone. Like, Southern, like, very much cultural. Same values, like, all of the same things. I was like, I love it here. Like, I could so see myself going here. It was an amazing school. You can imagine, like, the amenities and the access that you have to, like, nutritionists and recovery and everything. Like, it's absurd. And I mean, I started since I was a freshman there. I ran a 5 1, and it was amazing. I just didn't really have the most enjoyable time with the head coaches that I had there. Cause I was recruited by one, she got fired, and then a new one came in, and basically everyone from my team transferred right after she got hired. It was awful. But after that, I just, like, completely lost the love for the game whatsoever. I just hated it. I got to the point where I asked my parents, I was like, I just want to quit. And then, you know, my dad. My dad was like, sloaners aren't quitters. Like, you can transfer. And I was like, you're so right. So I ended up transferring, and I was like, I just want to get out of the Power 5. I want to just enjoy it. Like, the Power 5 is such, like, a business mentality. It's very transactional. And I was like, I just want to go somewhere where I can have a life and enjoy it. And maybe that means I need to go in the complete opposite direction of what I think I wanted in a school. And so I entered the transfer portal going into my junior year of college. And San Jose was actually the first school that emailed me. And I was like, there's no way I'm ever moving to California. Like, I've always thought that. And then as it went on, I was like, I have a few options, but why not just explore all of them? So I responded, and they're like, yeah, we'd still love to have you went on an official visit. And I just loved. Like, they seemed to care about me as a person. Like, the conversations we were having weren't like, this is how we see you on the court. These are the things we think you can accomplish as a volleyball player. It was like we were going to dinner and just talking about life, joking around, talking about how, like, they give, like, fun off days just to go to the beach or, like, that type of stuff. And I was like, this is exactly what I need. Like, go to practice. I can lock in for four or five hours a day. And then afterwards, I'm not having panic attacks waiting for the next practice tomorrow. So I thought that was like, okay, this seems right. Like, this seems like it could be great. So I ended up committing, like, I want to say, like, a week later to San Jose State.
- [05:56]
A
It's so interesting hearing you talk about kind of the role that the coaching staff at University of Alabama played in your love for the game in general. Because we had Kaylee Ray on just a few weeks ago, and she had a similar experience. Same thing with me. I loved my coach the entire way through, to be honest with you. But we found out as a team some pretty hor. Horrific facts after graduating about our coach and sexual involvement that really tainted my view of him and the institution. So all that to say coaching staffs and the problems that exist there, there's no shortage of those. And then you commit to California or to a university in California where maybe a change of pace, a change of scenery. California is objectively beautiful, but of course, what you initially thought you were signing up for is just not what you got in terms of the game that you would be playing, of course, committing to a women's volleyball team. Yeah, that was not the case. Can you walk us through when you learned that you were sharing the court and living accommodations, quite frankly, with a man?
- [07:09]
B
So I was at San Jose State for. I want to say it was like, three or four months. I'm just taking a guess. I don't remember, like, the date. And I was going to Hibachi with some of my guy friends from basketball, and then some of my teammate. My other roommate actually was with us, and it was like a little food truck, because there's food trucks everywhere out there, and we were waiting for our food in the car. And me and my roommate are sitting in the front seat of my car just talking. I don't even know about what. And they're in the backseat talking about stuff. And then all of a sudden I hear them referring to Blair, the man on my team, as like a dude and a man. And I was like, what are y' all talking about? And they looked at my roommate and they were like, she doesn't know. You don't know. And I was like, no, what? And my roommate was like, I wasn't gonna be the one to tell her. And so that's when they looked at me and they were just like, you know Blair's a dude, right? Like Blair's a full on man. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, how do you know this? Is this a known thing? Does everyone know this? Am I just like out in the dark? No one just decided to not tell me? And my roommate was like, everyone just kind of finds out on their own. Like it's kind of just. You kind of just figure it out as you go, but no one wants to be the one to tell you. Cause it's just kind of like a hush hush. Everyone knows, but we know we're not supposed to talk about it. And I immediately asked. Cause that year I was the only transfer. And there were, I wanna say like nine freshmen on our team that year. And I was like, do any of the freshmen know? Like these are like little 17 year olds coming and playing volleyball in college for the first time. Like do any of them know? And she was like, I have no idea. Like I said, everyone just kinda finds out on their own. And my mind was like, as you can guess, like just all over the place. Like I genuinely was not processing it whatsoever. I was just so confused.
- [09:04]
A
So you had no prior indication, what about like sharing time on the court? Like were there, was there evidence, I guess in that regard in terms of his skill set?
- [09:15]
B
And yeah, because obviously coming from sec, Alabama, like that's definitely a different skill level. Like obviously there's going to be better players, just harder hits, you know what I mean? And so I knew San Jose State was going to be a little bit of a drop of level of play. And I was okay with that. But I get, I vividly remember, I get to first day of summer practices where it's like no coaches, just our team and we're doing this warm up drill where it was just like one on one. You get three touches by yourself and you're just playing a point at a time versus one other person, but it's only sharp cross, so. So volleyball players would probably understand, like there's a 10 foot line and we'd put some tape down so you literally have like 5ft from the 10 foot line to the net and in width like 10ft ish that you can hit this ball. So obviously a lot of the girls are like roll shotting it, trying to get warm. Like it's not supposed to be a lot of hard swings. And I just remember first day of practice, he's on the court and it's his turn and he just jumps like out of the gym and just is slamming every single ball like in front of us. Like we can't even touch this ball. It's absurd. And I was like, wow, like that's amazing. Like that's gonna be awesome for us to have in season. I remember calling my parents after the first day of practice like, you won't believe this girl on our team and like how she can hit. And they're like, wow, like at least you're not playing against her. And I was like, I know, like this girl can slam a ball. So there were previous, like indications of like the skill level was just absurd. But I like, like I've always said, like, I've never been raised to just second guess. Like someone's lying to me about their gender. So I was just like, good for her. Like, not going to question that.
- [11:07]
A
Yeah. Again, especially when it's someone on your team.
- [11:10]
B
Yeah.
- [11:10]
A
Did you get any info on how the people in your car knew? Like, was it something that was kind of at this point, like just a hypothesis or how did they know that Blair was actually a man?
- [11:25]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, sports is a small world. Like everyone, once something gets out, eventually everyone's gonna hear about it. Like, I'm sure swim's a small world. Volleyball, Everyone knows everyone somehow. And Blair, the man on my team was previously at Northern North. I forget what it is. Coastal Carolina. And I'm pretty sure I could be wrong because this isn't for sure why he left there, but the rules in the state of North Carolina changed and he ended up transferring or taking a gap year and transferring to San Jose State. And so I'm pretty sure a few people just at San Jose knew people that were previously at Blair's school and they'd found out from them. And it just kind of slowly spread through the school.
- [12:11]
A
Right.
- [12:11]
B
And there was some other stuff that just like drama, gossip that happened at the time that more and more people figured out. And that one year that he was there. By the end of that year, basically every athlete at the school knew. And it was just kind of like you figure out on your own. Like I said, just rumor and everyone knowing someone that knew some little bit of information about it.
- [12:36]
A
So what was kind of the next step for you? You learn about this a few months after transferring. Obviously the season was still impending. So you play. What did that process look like ultimately once you found out this information?
- [12:50]
B
Well, my initial thought process was I was like, I go home. I'm like, I don't even know how to wrap my head around this information.
- [12:58]
A
Which. What year was this, by the way?
- [13:01]
B
This was 2023. Going, like, going in fall 2023 for my junior season. And when I found out, I'm pretty sure we were still in preseason, so we'd already played a little bit, but we hadn't started real season yet. And I was like, I'm not even gonna. I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell my friends. I was like, I don't. I'm not even fully processing this because this is someone I'd already become. Started to become friends with for months. And I'm living with them. And I'm also the new girl on the team, so I don't want to be going up to this person. And like, is this true? Because I'm not trying to. I'm trying to get in with the team. I'm not trying to cause drama. And so I remember he got injured the day before our season started in practice. So he was out our entire. Basically my entire junior season until like, two games left. And I think I really was just like, this isn't something I have to deal with right now. I still didn't tell anyone. I honestly did not fully process it still, even that whole season, because I was like, he's just in the stands. I don't have to worry about is what it is. And I genuinely just was like, this. I can't handle this. I just starting to fall in love with the game again. The coaches are kind of chill, let me just live my life. This isn't my problem. Right. So that's just kind of how I went about my junior year, honestly.
- [14:30]
A
But then he was able to play again your senior year, correct?
- [14:34]
B
Yes.
- [14:35]
A
So then what did that process look like for you?
- [14:40]
B
Well, I think when I first started to really, like, honestly have to process, it was about two weeks before we went home for summer, my junior year was when that first article came out. And I wanna say it was a Utah State mom that went to Reddick's and that was like the first article that really kind of blew it up. And the next day we had a meeting and everyone was like, okay, we all know about this. We're finally gonna get some answers. Like, we have questions ready, we're ready to go. We're like, okay, he's off the team. Obviously, everyone knows now. And we go to this meeting and there's like compliance media personnel from school and our coaching staff. I don't think the AD was present. And immediately they never addressed the fact that it's a man or what the article's about. They basically just stated that this article's come out. It's some small, like, media. Like, no one's gonna see it. It's not Fox or anything. And so you don't need to worry about it. We're handling it. And if anyone asks you questions about it, there's no need to answer. Just say, this isn't your story to tell and you can push them our way if you need to. But this is like, it's against HIPAA for you to gender identify Blair, your teammate. Like, we're all going to be a family in this situation and stick together.
- [16:07]
A
Such coercion and still no clarity at this point.
- [16:10]
B
Right.
- [16:10]
A
Like, there was never any. At least based on how I have understood what you guys went through. There was never any. Any clarity on the situation or what you guys were being asked to navigate. So it's incredibly confusing and chaotic. Again, you're talking to college age girls. So the article came out, but it eventually did begin to spread like wildfire.
- [16:36]
B
Yeah.
- [16:37]
A
The response that you guys had as a team when Ute, I believe it was Southern Utah, Was that the first state that ultimately decided to forfeit a match against you guys because of his
- [16:50]
B
allowance on the team season? Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:53]
A
So what. What was that like when you learned of this? Because at that point you guys could no longer just kind of push it to the side. You were being confronted with it head on.
- [17:01]
B
Yeah. And it was weird because we were like, I don't want to say I. Or actually, I do want to say I. I'm pretty sure the school just lied to us about why they forfeited. And they. I want to say they initially told us that it was more of like they just needed to catch a flight or they didn't have the time to play against us. And everyone was like, we know why they're forfeiting. Like, there's no reason to lie here. And they stood firm on the fact that it was not because we had a full man on our team playing against them. So they've even the forfeits they never once addressed it was because we had a man on our team that these teams were forfeiting. Like anytime a team forfeited, they were just kind of like, you're not traveling this weekend so like enjoy your weekend off.
- [17:50]
A
That's so crazy. But there ended up being five separate teams that forfeited and I think a couple teams several times throughout the season in the conference championship.
- [17:59]
B
Yeah.
- [18:01]
A
So that's really hard. What were your feelings during that? Because I would imagine again at this point it's not just affecting the man, it's Yalls record as well. Granted you guys are. Are technically accepting a win onto your record, but was there part of you that felt as if it was not a real and solidified win, therefore you didn't really earn it. I can't imagine how I would feel in this.
- [18:28]
B
Not even a part of me, like all of me. I was like, this isn't even. Take it off the record honestly at this point and just say we were like four and two for the season or something. Like, I don't want those. That's we didn't play. Why is that even on our record at this point? But you can imagine the frustration when we're being told in practice almost every week, at some point, every other week that we're not getting to play. That is why we are here. We're training, training six, five hours a day, like killing our bodies, doing something we love. And you're telling us we can't go and do it because this one person is on our team. And I just vividly remember, like as more forfeits went went on and started happening, it was just every day in practice, like once we found out, we'd be in our huddle about to start and going over the practice place plan and our coach would just be like, oh, and I just wanted to let you know, like, sadly, let's just say Nevada has forfeited so we're not going to be traveling. And he was like, I don't know if he would say, like, how do we feel about that? Does anyone have anything to say? Any questions? I'm pretty sure he would just say any questions and it would just be silent. And like, I know it got to a point where I just would start crying. I'm like, I'm just so frustrated and I feel like I can't say anything in that situation because I know I'm going to get just screamed at for not agreeing with having a man on my volleyball team. And this one person is causing all these issues. And so multiple people would just, like, start breaking down and sobbing. And at one point, one of my. Actually, one of my roommates literally looked at Blair and was like, do you have nothing to say for yourself? Like, you know, you're the reason that these games are getting forfeited. And there wasn't a single time that he would address us and be like, I'm sorry. At least thank you for still not. Still being respectful towards me because my team was so respectful towards him all season.
- [20:28]
A
No one was going to ask. I was curious about the discourse among, like, your teammates. And even you've talked about this coach who seems to be in support of having the man on the team. So what was that? I guess these conversations, like, behind closed doors.
- [20:47]
B
It was just us, like, so confused. And at first, especially, like my head coach, at first he was trying to state that he was very unbiased. Like, if you don't agree with it, come to him. If you agree with it, come to him. If you have questions, like, doors always open. And then I remember the first time I said, like, when does it get to the point where we just remove the one person from this situation that's causing all these issues and just play this game as women? And he just, like, cussed me out. And I was like, okay, well, you're not unbiased. Like, you're fully supporting having Blair on our team, so I can't talk to you about disagreeing with it. And I think that's why slowly, like, everyone just started shutting down. And honestly, props to our team, especially how young they were, because there wasn't a single time anyone was disrespectful to Blair. Like, it might be absurd to say, but, like, we would still go in. We're like, you're not going to ruin my day anymore. I'm going to put a smile on my face, try and enjoy this game that we're here for, and just go along with my day. And I don't know how we did it, but, like, everyone still treated Blair with respect and kindness, even though not a single person in that gym agreed with him being there.
- [22:00]
A
Well, it's such a good point because again, they'll label you as transphobic or hateful or a bigot or insert the derogatory term. But the reality is, um, I'm sure your whole team acted with compassion and grace and kindness, even in a situation where it's costing you Something. Yeah, there you guys did have one coach, Melissa Beatty. Smooze. Can you talk about her and her role in all this? Because there was a really crazy story that came out following, I guess, her support for you all as women on the team, where she was shot at inside of her own home. Can you talk about her? And kind of the role she played?
- [22:44]
B
I mean, she was literally an angel sent from heaven for my team at that time. Like, everyone called her mommy. Like, she was literally just the mother of our team. So even before all the craziness, like, anything in our lives that was an issue where we were kind of stressed out. Like, we could just literally go sit in her office, cry it out, and she'd just be there for us. And so she was our one coach we had that really was standing up for us, especially behind closed doors trying to support us and explain to compliance or even Todd, our head coach, like, do you not understand how this is so hard for all these girls and why they're struggling to come into practice every day? And he just started to treat her terribly because she didn't agree with it, and so did the school. And if I didn't have her at that time, I really don't know how I would have gotten through that season. Like, there was times before games, I'm just in the hall, like, sobbing to her, and she's just comforting me through this and, like, telling me I don't have to play. And even though I was like, no, I'm going to. But there were times where I'd call her, and I'm like, I can't come to practice today, Melissa. Like, I cannot be in the same facility with this, with these, like, with Todd and Blair today. Like, I just can't take it. And she would like, I'll tell Todd, you have a migraine. You're good. Stay home. Like, I understand. And she was just that for us. Like, she would do that for anyone. And it was when she got released just 10 minutes before a game, and they were just like, okay, go play. Like, the one person that's here protecting you is gone now. Go play. And like, I had a freshman come sob in my shoulder. And just like, all she said was, I don't feel safe anymore. Like, we have no one. I don't feel safe. And it broke my heart.
- [24:26]
A
Did they give you a reason why she was released?
- [24:29]
B
No, I'm not kidding. We came in, we were playing. I vividly remember we were playing New Mexico State at home. And we were there, obviously, hours early, getting everything done. And we have our jerseys on, about to go out for our real game warmups. And about 10 minutes before that, this compliance person that we've never seen in our life calls our team into our meeting room and maybe sums it up within five minutes, like, your coach, Melissa's not gonna be here. She's not gonna be here any further, and so on. So that's just what's going on. And if we get any more information, we'll let you know, but that's about it as of now. So she will not be here today and going forward. And then he was like, okay, go ahead and go play in a game now. And everyone just starts, like, breaking down into tears. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, this is just absolutely ridiculous.
- [25:19]
A
Yeah. The one person who was there for you all as women, who advocated for you all as women, was suddenly and forcefully removed from the team. You cannot tell me that's a coincidence. And then again, shot at inside her own home, which I'm not here to speculate on as to who or why. Maybe this is just California, but that's a pretty terrifying thing. Again, defending reality, defending women. And for that, or at least a consequence of that, that could be related, could be unrelated, you're shot at inside your own home. That's insane. You've alluded a few times.
- [25:59]
B
I 100% have my speculations, and I definitely think it was someone very much inside of everything that was going on
- [26:08]
A
that is such a scary, crazy revelation. And again, we're labeled as hateful.
- [26:14]
B
Yeah.
- [26:16]
A
You've talked about just kind of the emotions and feelings that you had throughout the season. Can you speak broader to, like, the physical toll that something like this takes on you? Because I think that's lost a lot where. Even by people on the right side of the issue who say, you know, why don't women just speak up? Why don't they just not compete? It's not as easy as that. And it really does take, like, a physical and emotional toll on you. Can you speak to kind of, like, what you faced and what you dealt with throughout the season and even afterwards after you had started speaking up?
- [26:50]
B
Yeah. It was 100% the hardest thing I've ever had to go through in my life. Like, there's not a day that I regret doing what I did, joining the lawsuits and really speaking up. But, like, you're still. I mean, especially for me and my teammates, like, we're all still in the middle of our season, and I'm still waking up and going and seeing these People every single day that have basically decided they hate my guts. Like my head coach basically stopped talking to me altogether unless it had to do with something during a game. And it was really hard. Like I would wake up and it's just like you're trying to put a face on every single day and just enjoy the thing that you're there for. And then I'd come home, call my dad usually and just like break down and finally just get to release all the like pens up frustration and emotion from the day because you're just kind of gulping it down just to get through practice and try and develop as an athlete while you're putting yourself in danger every single day and going against also everything that I believe in, being in there. But there's so many young girls on our team. I just felt like such a responsibility for them to be there because I understand being a 17 year old in college athletics, like, you don't really feel like you have a voice yet to really step out of line at all. And the amount that that took a toll on them, like none of them were there anymore, obviously, thank God at San Jose being coached by Todd Kress. But I like completely lost myself during that time. I look back at photos and videos of the time that I was there and I was like, that just was not me. Like my mom told me at one point, she was like, you're just a shell of yourself. Like, it was terrifying. It was, it broke my heart. It broke my family's heart. And looking back, I was like, it's so true. Like, I was draining every ounce of just like running on adrenaline every single day, trying to get through going into that gym and being around those people that were putting DEI representatives on me for believing in what I believed in and having compliance sit and practice or in our locker room while we're changing in case someone decides to attack Blair. And so it's just going into something where it's like no one's here to support you and you're basically on your own. And they've proven that by getting rid of Melissa, which made things ten times harder. And it's hard to say that also speaking out at the same time definitely made it 10 times harder. Just because I'm speaking out against what I'm a part of, honestly. And then going in and them seeing those things and going into practice and them hating me more and more for it every single day. And so it definitely made it harder. And like my coach pulling up articles about things and honestly, sometimes things that I didn't even say. And just like ripping into me for an article and then me not even getting to practice that day because he didn't like something he saw or filing Title 9 cases against me for misgendering a man on my volleyball team. So you can imagine like months and months of that. It's awful. Like, I can't imagine having a daughter and having to go through that.
- [30:08]
A
Yeah, that's so brutal. Speaking up mid season while you're playing, as you alluded to having to see the male athlete that you're respectfully talking about, by the way, but of course, opposing his allowance on your team, the living accommodations situation, how your university and entire institution lied to you, stripped you of your ability to consent, I think is the most plain and really sinister way to put it, but accurate way to put it. So all that to say you're no stranger to the backlash, but I would say over the past few weeks, maybe the past few months, it's increased even more than it had been previously. There's a couple tweets here I want to read you from people online. This guy, this they them, it could be a girl. I have no idea. This human being says that this B word is mad because she became friends with a trans woman. Nothing bad happened. They were good friends. She just found out she was trans and is now going on this disgusting grifter culture war bs. Absolutely soulless and I hope your God punishes you. This person says literally nothing bad happened to her. The trans woman was her friend and is now being vilified for doing nothing wrong. And so what do you have to say to these people who seemingly have never played a competitive sport in their entire life?
- [31:29]
B
Yeah, I mean, they just don't understand. Like I've told it because I was never really a political person before all of this. I mean, I was young, obviously. I don't really think you really start to educate yourself on it until this age. And so I was never really had strong opinions. I had my baseline morals and that was about it. And so going into it, I was like, if it really hadn't affected me, if I'm being very transparent, if it would have never affected me personally in my day to day life, I would have never spoken out about it. Like, you're not affecting me personally. I don't agree with what you're doing, but live your life and that's it. But it was truly when it started affecting me personally day to day. Like, I'm just trying to go in, do what I love and I'm Leaving practice, basically playing dodgeball, trying to get out of the way of a ball that's being swung at five times harder than any women ever could, even at professional level. And I can confidently say that because I coached boys volleyball this past year and it was 16 and 18's club volleyball and I got to play with them and it was amazing. But I'm like, the 18's boys are at my level. Like it was fun to play with them because they were my level and hitting harder than I ever could have. So it's just the level, the endurance, the athleticism, like the strength of all things. No woman can compare to that. But also then sharing bathrooms and my apartment unknowingly like that is sexual abuse. Like you are taking away the consent of these women to show who they want, what they want, when they want, practically. So it's like there's so many different aspects we can talk about. On how it's not okay. It doesn't matter if I didn't walk away with a broken neck. It's still not okay in every way possible.
- [33:19]
A
Okay. I know a lot of people who privately and quietly deal with private student loan debt. If you've watched the show before, then you've heard me mention my friends at Y Refi before. What they're doing is incredibly impressive. It's needed, quite frankly. So if you are stuck with private student loans that feel impossible, or like your monthly payment is way higher than what you can actually afford, or maybe you've fallen behind, maybe you're in default, you are not alone and you are not out of options. Why Refi? They work specifically with people in that same situation. They refinance private student loans that most places won't even touch. And they actually sit down one on one to create to craft a custom payment plan based on your ability to pay what you can actually and realistically afford. What does that mean? It means lower monthly payments. It means a low fixed interest rate. It means a real path forward instead of just that feeling of being stuck or like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. And the best part about it is they really don't care about your credit score. So if this is something that has been weighing on you, it doesn't have to be this way. Go to yrefi.com y r e f y.com and tell them that Riley from the Riley Gaines show sent you. Yeah. You know, it's such a. It's such a harmful message that they're sending to young girls to basically just ignore their Gut instincts. Right. This is, after all, of the believe all women MeToo movement. Now you're telling girls to ignore whatever gut instincts they have to be vulnerable to. Strip down naked and just shut up and take is. So I think when you put it as plainly as that, which, again, is entirely accurate. Yeah. You realize what a harmful message it is. And so now you are involved, as you said, in some lawsuits. But one of the one other thing I wanted to mention very briefly that I just remembered is you're posting about this on TikTok, this situation, and you were censored. Right. Talk about this.
- [35:18]
B
Yeah. I mean, I finally think I got to a point where I was like, obviously so many other people have gotten to tell snippets of my story, just doing interviews and stuff, but I finally just wanted to be able to sit down and, like, honestly, it's kind of a therapeutic thing to just, like, talk about it. Like, let's not impress this. Let's just talk about it and, like, put it out there. And I posted, like, parts, started posting parts on TikTok, and I think within a week, they, on my whole account, got taken down and I was banned from TikTok. And I was like, oh, okay, this is interesting. And it kind of blew up that it got banned. And so one of my good friends at Fox actually reached out to TikTok and asked them for, like, what's going on? Why'd this happen? And then within the hour, they unbanned it, but they just basically monetized and took down all of my, like, part videos of what happened and left anything else up that had nothing to do with it. So I've found out since then that you cannot misgender or bully a group of people. And that was what I was doing, supposedly.
- [36:29]
A
Do you think you'll still post on the app now?
- [36:32]
B
I think so. I'm gonna have to figure out the wording to be able to actually blatantly tell my story. Unless I just want to talk about what happened with the school, which there is plenty. But I finally wanted to just sit down and talk about everything that I went through. And I guess just TikTok just doesn't allow that, which was frustrating, honestly.
- [36:54]
A
They don't. Of course. TikTok itself, I think, inevitably has become, I guess, a better place as compared to 2020 or 2021 for conservatives. And I think with Trump stepping in ultimately to say, help save tick tock. But it is still filled and infiltrated with activists who will shut down conversations they don't like, who will Censor people who quote, unquote, misgender those who identify as. As trans.
- [37:25]
B
Yeah.
- [37:26]
A
So, yeah, conservatives, you have to find ways to, like, talk about things. Like, even in your captions, they flag captions if you have a word in there that I guess would raise concern to those said activists.
- [37:39]
B
Yeah.
- [37:40]
A
And so they'll take it down within seconds of you posting it. So again, only something conservatives have to deal with. We don't see this on the other side. I would imagine if Blair took to TikTok to tell his side of things, those videos would definitely still.
- [37:53]
B
Oh, and I heard he has. I haven't seen them, but I've. Some of my friends have actually said that he has. And the things that he's posting, I'm like, oh, so that's not bullying, but mine is. Okay. Okay.
- [38:08]
A
Have you guys, I guess, been in contact at all following, I guess, your career, your. Your prominence in the. Not at all.
- [38:17]
B
I want to say, honestly, our last sit down conversation we ever had because I tried to be very transparent about everything I did. I wasn't trying to hide anything. And so I think the last sit down conversation we really ever had, one on one, was when I was telling him I was joining the lawsuit mid or beginning of season my senior year.
- [38:36]
A
So talk about that lawsuit and what it is, who you're suing and I guess what you're suing for.
- [38:44]
B
Well, there's a group of us. You're a part of it. That we are suing the NCAA for Title IX violations. And I honestly think that that could go a really long way because my other lawsuit is with the Mountain west, and we are kind of hitting some roadblocks in that one right now. And they've actually dismissed a lot of the other girls statements. So our mind's really the only one that's still a part of that lawsuit. But I'm really hoping that the NCAA one keeps pushing forward because that could help really Change the Title 9 rules and making sure that those are upheld and not allowing men to be protected under that. And so that's the biggest thing that I hope for because I think if the NCAA won't change their rules overall, at least Title 9 can be protected for women.
- [39:34]
A
Absolutely. And you're right, we have seen some pretty good signs. I'm no legal analyst.
- [39:42]
B
I know.
- [39:43]
A
But there are, I think, good indication that we will be victorious in this suit. We've seen some action from President Trump and his administration, the Department of Education, the Department of Justice, getting involved in investigating San Jose State University, and they Came out with a pretty favorable ruling saying that, yes, SJSU did, in fact violate Title ix. Thoughts on that and what you hope to see come from this investigation and the ruling now?
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, when I first saw the ruling initially, when it first came out, it was honestly really exciting because it was kind of like the first win that I've really gotten to have since starting everything. And, like, my parents were so excited. Like, at least San Jose State's gonna be held accountable in some way. Like, bare, bare minimum, in my opinion.
- [40:34]
A
What did they have to do? Was it like apologize?
- [40:36]
B
It was basically the same exact thing they asked of you, Penn, and just like, apologize. You're not allowed to be forced to use someone's genders that they prefer. There was a long list of things I read, but basically just sending out individual emails and apologizing for what they did and taking accountability.
- [40:56]
A
Did you get an email apology?
- [40:58]
B
No. Because I don't know if you saw. The president of SJSU came back and posted to their community and staff, like, we still stand by the fact that we have done nothing wrong. We love our SJSU community and we are very inclusive to anyone and everyone. And so we will not be apologizing for something we don't believe we did wrong. And so they've passed that. I think it was. I forget what the date was, but the DOJ gave them that time period to send out those apologies, and they've yet to do so. So now I know they're threatening federal funding if they don't follow the guidelines that they were sent.
- [41:40]
A
Well, I hope that's what we see, honestly. And I. I hate to say it, because again, with federal funds, they do a lot more than enforce this, these DEI policies. They do do good with the federal funds. And so to see them willing to just totally dismiss all the be done to allow for the bad, I guess it shows you where their priorities are. So I hope we see, like, the full hammer of justice brought down from the Department of Justice and President Trump's administration. And so kind of last thing for you. Is speaking out worth it? We've talked about some of the hardships. We've talked about, again, the emotional toll, the physical toll, the hatred and the negativity and the just profanities that are hurled your way online. Is it worth it?
- [42:28]
B
100%. I mean, ever since I started, obviously it's terrifying at first because you're being told and manipulated and gaslit and all these ideas of your scholarship could be on the line. And it's Illegal against hipaa. But once you educate yourself, they can't do anything to you. Like, yes, they decided they hated me and that they gonna talk to me less. But at the end of the day, the biggest priority for me and the biggest push was I was like, if I know that I have a daughter in the future and I could have done something and didn't, I would kick myself for the rest of my life. Right. And so knowing that hopefully I can help make a change for the long term for the future generations of women, it's 100% worth it. And I have, like, I have so many blessings in my life that I never thought I would have had ever since speaking out. Like, you meet some of the most amazing people and God has blessed me in so many different ways that I couldn't have even imagined since doing this. I mean, it brought me back to my faith, starting this journey. And so there's not a second that I second guess doing what I did. And I recommend everyone do it. Just educate yourself. And it's not as scary as it seems.
- [43:45]
A
No, it's really not. And, and like you said, it really is liberating. Like, it feels like a weight is off of your shoulders when you confidently and emphatically state what you know is true and right and good and just and moral and fair. When you can say that without hesitation or without fear of retaliation or maybe even still with fear, that's what I guess qualifies as being courageous. Doing something even though there is fear, then it is the most liberating, freeing feeling. So I'm right there with you and how encouraging that it brought you back to your faith. I would imagine in the situation that you were in and you kind of don't have anything else to do but to fall to your knees and kind of surrender. And so in that to have that be a part of your testimony is really powerful.
- [44:34]
B
It is. And I mean, it was amazing because I was actually at a church service yesterday at my home church here at Watermark in Dallas, and they had this couple come up who really were trying to reach the unreached in like very small countries where Christianity is just so illegal and you could just get killed for it. And it was so eye opening. And they're like, yes, it seems so terrifying to speak out against something that you are going to get backlash for. And I think she said it was Matthew 2, where he really talks about how God will give you the words. When you are in the moment, you will know what to say. Don't try and think about it beforehand. You don't need to try and, like, get all of this bravery to go do it. Just go do it and he will lead you in the right way. And that was just like, I could have not resonated more with something that could have been said on Sunday, but it's so true. Like, ever since I've started this journey, my steps that I have taken have never been so strong. Like, and that's why I say, like, I don't think anyone that does it regrets it.
- [45:44]
A
I love that so much. And it is so true. If he calls you, he will equip you. You can think of several accounts in the Bible. Joshua, who he promised victory over the Canaanites, Moses, as he led the Israelites out with Aaron and his staff, and of course, Esther, before she was brought before the king. So for such a time as this, that is the verse that we will end with today, Esther 4:14, which honestly I think is really. We remember the back half of that verse for such a time as this part, but the front half feels very relevant to what we're talking about because it says, for if you remain silent, you and your father's family will perish. And so that's really, I believe, Christ calling on all of us to use our voices and to use them for good and to glorify him in all that we do. So, Brooke, thank you. Thank you for doing just that. And as a mom who does have a daughter, thank you. I was. I was in your shoes too, where it was the hypothetical of one day, I hope I have a daughter of my own. Yeah, well, now she's here. And so on behalf of her, thank you for your fight.
- [46:54]
B
Of course. Thanks for having me. Riley.
- [46:57]
A
You're the best. You're the best. Thank you guys for watching the Riley Gaines Show. You can subscribe right here. We have new episodes every single Tuesday and Friday at 10:00am Eastern Time. And we are covering everything from pop culture to politics to deep dives to motherhood, sports, all of that and more. We want to hear from you, though. What is it that you want to hear? Comment down below. We can't wait to see you next time.