The Riley Gaines Show – Wrestling with Gender Identity in Women's Sports

Episode Date: April 10, 2024
Host: Riley Gaines
Guest: Brandi Meeks, President of the Vitae Foundation

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rarely discussed implications of gender identity and transition in women's sports, focusing specifically on scenarios where biological women who are transitioning to men continue competing in female categories—often while using testosterone or other hormone therapies. Riley Gaines and guest Brandi Meeks delve into the policy loopholes that allow this, its real effects on female athletes, and the urgent need for legislation to close these gaps. The conversation is rooted in personal experience, policy scrutiny, and advocacy for fairness, safety, and clarity in girls’ and women’s sports.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brandi Meeks’ Background and Activism

[01:55 - 03:27]

• Brandi is President of the Vitae Foundation, which focuses on research and messaging on life-saving (pro-life) issues.
• She explains her work is complementary to the gender debate in sports: “I want equality for all people. I love equality for all people. And that includes our young women that are participating in sports.” (Brandi, 03:27)

2. The State Wrestling Tournament Incident

[03:54 - 08:13]

• Brandi recounts her daughter’s experience facing an athlete in the state wrestling tournament—a biological woman transitioning to a man, using testosterone.
• The athlete boasted about taking testosterone (a banned performance enhancer in most sports) and was in Brandi’s daughter’s weight class.
• Brandi points out the “loophole”:
  • Biological women on testosterone can compete in women’s division
  • There’s no requirement to disclose hormone use
• She emphasizes the dilemma: “This is a biological woman who maybe seems to be taking performance enhancing drugs to be a man that is still competing against their biological gender.” (Brandi, 06:32)

3. Broader Context and Comparison

[08:13 - 11:36]

• Riley illustrates widespread unfairness:
  • Trans women (biological men) compete against women
  • Trans men (biological women) typically also stay in women’s sports, especially at the youth/college level
  • Noted the NCAA case of “Izzy”/“Isaac” from Yale:
    “You've got... a 6 foot 4 man in a women's swimsuit with a bulge next to a woman wearing only a Speedo... It literally must be, this is the Twilight Zone.” (Riley, 09:30)
  • There are virtually no cases of women transitioning to men competing in men’s divisions with success.

4. Missouri Law and the Policy Loophole

[11:36 - 15:54]

• Missouri law protects women’s sports based on biological sex, but doesn’t require disclosure of hormone therapy/hormone status.
• The Missouri State High School Association’s response was dismissive:
  • “Is she afraid her daughter is going to lose?”
  • Brandi notes her daughter won the match (8-0) but says the issue is about policy and principle, not just outcomes.
• Policy used to require disclosure if a woman was transitioning, but no longer does.
• Brandi warns: “We’ve exposed a loophole along the way and now we’ve got to close the loophole.” (Brandi, 07:22)

5. Call for Legislative Action – SB 1440

[15:54 - 23:47]

• Missouri Senate Bill 1440 seeks to ban performance-enhancing drugs (including testosterone) in school athletics, regardless of gender identity context.
  • “This will ban any kind of hormone therapy and allow for young women to be protected should someone decide that they want to transition to be a male and are born a biological woman.” (Brandi, 13:14)
  • “It's not just about anti-doping ... this is about closing a loophole that is much bigger than just not taking testosterone ... about keeping biological women from doing it in order to still compete in a biological woman's sport.” (Brandi, 15:25)

6. Philosophical and Cultural Implications

[16:25 - 21:59]

• Riley and Brandi critique regulatory inconsistency; e.g., NCAA bans energy drinks for being "performance enhancers" but permits hormone therapy under certain circumstances.
  • “Celsius, they said there’s too much caffe. So ... why do you think they're scared to do what they know to be right? Are you kidding me?” (Riley, 17:13)
• They discuss the emotional and societal costs:
  • The signal sent to girls about their worth and the value of sex-based categories
  • The need to accept consequences for adult decisions, i.e., if you transition, you may lose sports eligibility in certain categories

7. Appeal for Broader Parental and Coaching Involvement

[19:11 - 22:29]

• Brandi urges not only mothers but fathers, male coaches, and all adults involved in youth sports to stand up for fairness and safety.
  • “Not from a sexist standpoint... No, we need to work together to handle this. And I just don’t want men to feel like their voices have to be quieted ... many of them are probably scared for their jobs, and that's wrong.” (Brandi, 20:18)
• The emphasis is on teamwork and unity across genders for the protection of girls.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On policy loopholes:
  “This means there's a possibility of taking testosterone, which hormone therapy ... essentially are performance enhancing drugs. Okay? So this is where the caution starts...” (Brandi Meeks, 05:12)

• On coaching and parental responsibility:
  “We need men to feel comfortable and not feel like ... they don't have a voice in this. They are dads, they are uncles, they are brothers. They are coaches. And we need you. We need you to protect our girls as well.” (Brandi, 20:07)

• The national scene described:
  “You've got again, a 6 foot 4 man in a women's swimsuit with a bulge next to a woman wearing only a Speedo with nothing covering her top, had clearly undergone, had a double mastectomy, but nothing covering her top. I'm sitting there watching this, Brandi, and I'm like, no, it's me. I'm the crazy one. It literally must be, this is the Twilight Zone.” (Riley, 09:19)

• On the 'anti-doping' bill's true scope:
  “...it's not just about making sure some kids don't take some testosterone. It is much bigger than that because, again, we've exposed a loophole. Now it's our responsibility to close that loophole.” (Brandi, 23:07)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brandi's activism & background: 01:55 – 03:27
• Wrestling tournament incident recounted: 03:54 – 08:13
• National and NCAA examples: 08:13 – 11:36
• Missouri law & loophole described: 11:36 – 15:54
• Discussion of anti-doping bill (SB 1440): 15:54 – 23:47
• Call to action for parents & coaches: 19:11 – 22:29
• Final legislative plug (SB 1440): 22:55 – 23:47
• Closing gratitude and encouragement: 24:11 – end

Call to Action & Next Steps

• For Missouri residents:

  • Contact state senators and representatives to support Senate Bill 1440—an anti-doping measure to safeguard girls’ and women’s sports from hormone-based performance enhancement tied to gender transition.

• For all listeners:

  • Recognize the complexity of gender policy in sports and advocate for clarity, fairness, and honest debate—engaging as parents, coaches, and concerned citizens.

This episode combines personal narrative, policy critique, and legislative advocacy, providing a comprehensive look into the current, evolving debate over gender identity, fairness, and safety in women’s sports—particularly as new situations reveal gaps in both logic and law.