Bonus: Introduction to Phase Four: “Finding Focus”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Rosary in a Year (with Fr. Mark-Mary Ames)

Bonus: Introduction to Phase Four: “Finding Focus”
Guest: Sister Miriam James Heidland, SOLT
Date: July 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode marks the introduction to Phase Four of the Rosary in a Year journey, called “Finding Focus.” Fr. Mark-Mary Ames is joined by the beloved Sister Miriam James Heidland, SOLT, to reflect on deepening the practice of praying the Rosary. Their conversation explores what it means to move beyond novelty and information into true depth, relationship, and devotion—transforming prayer from routine into life-changing intimacy with Jesus and Mary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sister Miriam’s Story & the Tangibility of the Rosary

[02:12 – 03:50]

• Sister Miriam shares her background as a member of SOLT, a missionary community serving in areas of deepest need.
• Rosary has always been central in her family:

  “My mom would always have a rosary. My dad would have a rosary in his pocket. And so I grew up with that...there was something particular about that.” – Sister Miriam [02:27]

• Importance of the physical Rosary as a source of comfort and connection, not magic but “like holding the hand of Our Lady.”

  “Every time you hold a rosary in your hand, it's like holding the hand of Our Lady.” – Sister Miriam quoting her mentor priest [02:50]

• Emphasis on the Rosary's biblical foundations, tradition, and the daily habit among religious.

2. Transition to Phase Four: From Novelty to Assimilation

[03:50 – 06:25]

• Fr. Mark-Mary describes the journey so far as one introducing new material (shades of blue in the Ascension guide indicating growing depth).
• Phase Four shifts the focus:
  • From learning and novelty (“the sugar”)
  • To assimilation and receiving: drinking deeply of what has been given and developing a prayer habit.
• Encouragement to receive rather than constantly strive or “do.”

3. Challenges in Deepening Prayer & Vulnerability

[06:26 – 08:07]

• Acknowledgment that receiving in prayer makes us vulnerable and is often difficult.
• Honest admission of distractions and fears in prayer:

  “…the rosary is not doing the thing. We've all prayed the rosary in our life and we know people…that the words are being spoken, but there's no transformation of the heart.” – Sister Miriam [06:49]

• Call to admit difficulty and to offer restlessness to God as an honest entrance into prayer.

4. Disposing Yourself in Prayer: Cooperation with God’s Grace

[08:08 – 10:55]

• Prayer can slip into self-reliance; real prayer is cooperative—“I can dispose myself to receive him, but it's not my job to make something happen.”
• Reference to Fr. Timothy Gallagher: acknowledge distractions gently, and continually return your gaze to the Lord.
• Prayer invites integration: nothing is off limits to God—bring all aspects into the light and into communion (emotional, spiritual, daily life).

  “All of us have sorrowful mysteries...joyful mysteries...glorious...luminous. And in those mysteries we’re bringing everything into the light of God's love.” – Sister Miriam [10:39]

5. The Three Dimensions of Prayer in the Rosary

[12:14 – 15:03]

• Rosary weaves together:
  1. Vocal prayer (using our senses, the gift of repetition and embodiment)
  2. Meditative prayer (engaging imagination, picturing the mysteries)
  3. Contemplative prayer (allowing God to carry you beyond words into presence)
• Permission to focus on quality over quantity:

  “Far better is one decade prayed with deep devotion, a deep attentiveness, than the rote recitation...”—Sister Miriam [14:05]

6. Navigating the Tension: Discipline vs. Leisure in Prayer

[15:04 – 18:07]

• Fr. Mark-Mary: Encouragement to embrace “leisureliness in prayer”—taking time, savoring, not rushing through for the sake of checking a box.
• Anxiety about not doing "enough"—the importance of discerning through the Holy Spirit whether greater discipline, deeper contemplation, or gentleness is needed.

  “Some of us need the discipline of praying the whole Rosary...sometimes the Holy Spirit is inviting us to particular times of deep contemplation.” – Sister Miriam [16:40]

7. Discernment: Listening to the Holy Spirit

[18:07 – 19:45]

• Both guests stress discerning the movement of the heart—is your difficulty in prayer a call to persevere or a call to rest?
• Prayer should be relationship, not a burdensome obligation.

8. Catechesis on the Forms of Prayer

[19:45 – 22:41]

• Sister Miriam succinctly defines the key forms:
  • Vocal prayer: Speaking to God using words aloud.
  • Meditative prayer: Using holy imagination to enter the Gospel scenes.
  • Contemplative prayer: A gift where God’s love draws us beyond ourselves, like “time stood still.”
• Imagination is a gift for entering divine mysteries—not just fantasy.

  “Our holy imagination is given to us to enter into something that is beyond us.” – Sister Miriam [20:40]

• Contemplation is a taste of heaven, accessible to all by God’s grace.

9. Commitment vs. Devotion

[22:41 – 29:08]

• Value of commitment in building habit and resilience in prayer life:

  “I'm a big fan of commitment...there's a profound source of grace in making commitment.” – Fr. Mark-Mary [22:41]

• Sister Miriam shares Dr. Bob Schuchts’ story:

  “I don’t want your commitment. I want your devotion.” – Dr. Schuchts’ wife (as quoted by Sister Miriam) [24:56]

• Commitment is important, but devotion is the heart’s “why”—the free gift of love.

  “Devotion to me speaks of the heart...the commitment is undergirded by a greater love. And it’s always that love we must go back to.” – Sister Miriam [27:20]

10. The Depth of Marian Devotion: Mary as Mother

[28:25 – 31:23]

• Real relationship with Mary—moving beyond abstract or statue-like devotion to experiencing her real motherhood.

  “To allow the kindness of Our Lady’s love...into all that is mine—that can be very difficult for us based on our own experiences...I need to know you, because I have a lot of experiences about my own femininity and about women. I need to know how kind you are.” – Sister Miriam [29:35]

• Mary's motherhood wants to transform all we give her, making us more like Jesus.

11. The Cry of the Heart & the Purpose of this Journey

[31:23 – 34:15]

• The goal: Enable listeners to have authentic relationship with Mary—as mother, not just devotional object.
• The importance of carving out time, going into the “inner room”—that secret, inviolable place in each soul—to receive and be united to God.
• Every aspect of life can be brought into communion, transformation, and healing through prayer.

  “Our whole life is to live more and more from that place...then everything is brought into union with Christ—nothing off limits...He transforms, purifies, heals, forgives, strengthens, raises valleys, levels mountains.” – Sister Miriam [33:15]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Every time you hold a rosary in your hand, it’s like holding the hand of Our Lady.”
  – Sister Miriam [02:50]

• “We can all admit that can be daunting, and we get distracted at times and we feel bad about that...always turning to the Lord first and saying, Lord, teach me how to pray. Here’s my restlessness. Here’s my fear.”
  – Sister Miriam [06:36]

• “I can dispose myself to receive him, but it’s not my job to try to make something happen.”
  – Sister Miriam [08:40]

• “We often live very fragmented [lives]...but what the Lord is showing us is that everything is brought into communion with Him.”
  – Sister Miriam [09:37]

• “Far better is one decade prayed with deep devotion, a deep attentiveness, than the rote recitation of it where...you finish and are like, I wasn't even praying, man. I don't even know what I was doing.”
  – Sister Miriam [14:05]

• “Some of us need the discipline of praying the whole Rosary…sometimes the Holy Spirit is inviting us to particular times of deep contemplation.”
  – Sister Miriam [16:40]

• “We have First Friday devotions; we don't have First Friday commitments.”
  – Sister Miriam, recounting Dr. Schuchts’ wisdom [25:52]

• “Devotion is the why.” – Sister Miriam [27:02]

• “It’s not this exterior practice. But would we just allow her to come into everything that is ours and to transform it? Because that’s all she does. She just transforms it and gives it to her son, and we become more like Jesus.”
  – Sister Miriam [30:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:34 – 01:29: Sister Miriam’s introduction, background, and community mission
• 02:12 – 03:50: Personal story of the Rosary and its power
• 03:50 – 06:25: Transitioning to Phase Four—what changes in the journey
• 06:26 – 08:07: Admitting difficulty and vulnerability in prayer
• 08:08 – 10:55: How to enter deeply and be gentle with distractions
• 12:14 – 15:03: Three forms of prayer within the Rosary
• 15:04 – 18:07: Discernment between discipline and leisure
• 19:45 – 22:41: Explanation of vocal, meditative, and contemplative prayer
• 22:41 – 29:08: Commitment and devotion—navigating spirituality with lasting love
• 29:08 – 31:23: Marian motherhood, opening one’s heart fully to Mary
• 31:23 – 34:15: The heart of the journey—real relationship, integrating all of life into prayer
• 35:28 – 38:05: Closing prayer and final blessing

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Tone & Language

This episode adopts a warm, open, and gently challenging tone. Both Fr. Mark-Mary and Sister Miriam use accessible language full of humanity, humor (lighthearted comments about “life-size posters” of Fr. Mark-Mary [01:00–01:21]), and compassion. They continually invite listeners to honesty, patience, and deeper relationship with God and Mary, steering away from a sense of duty or “checking the box.”

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Final Takeaway

Phase Four, “Finding Focus,” is a call to drink deeply of the gift you’ve been given in the Rosary—trusting less in novelty, more in presence and devotion. The goal is not to “get it done,” but to bring your whole heart—with its distractions, struggles, longings, and joys—into relationship with Jesus and Mary. By approaching the Rosary with both commitment and authentic devotion, prayer becomes a wellspring of grace, healing, and transformation.

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Remember: Poco a poco—little by little.
God bless you on the next steps of your journey.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Mark Mary with Franciscan Friars of the New. And this is the Rosary in a Year podcast. Welcome to another bonus episode as we begin phase four of our journey of prayer together. Phase four is called Finding Focused and we are all blessed. And I am extremely blessed and grateful to be joined by or dear friend, Sister Miriam James Hydland of the Society of Our lady of the Most Holy Trinity. Sister Miriam. Hey, welcome.

[B]

Hi, friend. How delightful to be with you. And thanks to all your listeners and all the people that are taking this journey to heart. It's a great adventure to be part of.

[A]

Yeah. I'm grateful for you sharing in it. You were in some ways there at the beginning insofar as when this actually launched and kind of made its biggest splash. We were together at a conference and met you in the line of an elevator and you were very encouraging, Sister. So thank you for that.

[B]

Do you have to say your publication team is doing a great job? Because I've been to parishes all over and like, there's life size posters of you. Every time I go into the vestibule of parishes and it just makes me giggle. Like every time I took a picture one time, like, get next to Father Mark Mary, my friend's like waving. It's great. Like you're larger than life. It's wonderful.

[A]

Yeah. I have a lot of friends who are taking pictures, catching me out in the wild. It's a little bit embarrassing, but it's also kind of sweet.

[B]

It's wonderful. It's wonderful. Yeah.

[A]

For those who don't know you, do you want to give a brief introduction to yourself, particularly your religious community?

[B]

Sure. As you mentioned, I'm a member of the Society of Our lady of the Most Holy Trinity, more affectionately known as Solt S O L T. And we're a missionary community consisting of priests, sisters and laity. And we serve in what we call family teams, ecclesial family teams, in areas of deepest apostolic need. So we serve here in America, in Central America and Belize and Guatemala, and then we serve in the Asian region, Papua New Guinea, Thailand, the Philippines. And we serve in areas that whatever the Bishop asks us to do, that's what we do. And our desire is to bring the love of Jesus and Mary to everyone. So it's a very simple way of life and we serve in a lot of very poor places, a lot of rural places, and just bringing the light of the gospel to people. So, yeah, it's a great and beautiful life.

[A]

Do you have any stories yourself of the rosary, kind of sources of grace, maybe particular ways in which you've had prayers answered in the rosary in your own personal life or those that you've kind of come across in the lives of others that you're willing to share.

[B]

Yeah, I think that since I was a little girl, the rosary is always part of our family. It was a central part of our family. We'd pray family rosary. My mom would always have a rosary. My dad would have rosary in his pocket. And so I grew up with that kind of just knowing of a devotion like that. Even though I myself at the time, you know, as like middle school, high school, college, I wasn't really that into anything like that. There was something that was really particular about that, that it was very special. And even just the power of the physical rosary is, you know, it's like a sacramental, right? It's a blessed. Like a sacramental. The priest that mentored me, you know, as sisters, we always have a rosary in our pocket. But the priest that mentored me would often give talks with a rosary in his hand. And I remember asking him very early on in my journey into religious life, I was like, why do you do that? And he said, because every time you hold a rosary in your hand, it's like holding the hand of Our Lady. And so, like, even now, I just say, yeah, there's something so comforting in that. Of, yeah, it's not magic. It's not some sort of, you know, idol worship. It's really taking the hand of Our lady, who makes great promises praying the rosary and the gift that she wants to give us as we turn our hearts to her, because she's only going to turn our hearts to Jesus. So, yeah, it's a great devotion. Obviously, it's really just sisters, we pray the rosary every day. If you have any issues, turn to Our lady and just start praying the rosary. Ask her to help. And she does. So. What a beautiful devotion that we have that's biblical, that's based in a lot of deep tradition and meditating upon the life of Christ. It's. Yeah, it's a very beautiful thing the church has given us.

[A]

We like tangible, and we like those things that we can touch. And sacramentals are a beautiful way in which we can have this kind of the. The movement of the heart towards Our lady where we can, you know, but there's a way in which, like with the rosary can. It can feel a little bit more like it can help it. It can help what is real, what is the reality kind of, you know, feel real as well. I love this kind of movement towards the rosary and this understanding of if it is this, this movement of the heart to Mary and her motherhood. And, and there is something right, so beautiful about the rosary and its simplicity, but also its depth and that in its joys and its sorrows and that it can meet us in all of these places, like Our lady, like the Best of Mothers. Where we're at in our, Our journey here with. With folks who are doing. Doing Rosary in the Year podcast is. We're in. We're almost halfway in, I guess, or about halfway in. And this, this. We're kind of entering into a new phase, but. But also a new genre of phases on our journey. And this is the part for me which really moves my heart and stir. Fires up my heart a lot. And for those who got the. The rosary in your prayer guide, one of the things that they may have noticed is like there's like a coloring system, tab system, organizational system that Ascension put together. And for like Bible in the year for different parts of salvation history, there's different color for rosary in the year. They're actually all just blue and different shades of blue indicating growing in depth. And so what we've been doing up to this point is there's been a good amount of introduction to new material. And in a certain sense, the input of new material is kind of coming to an end. And the phase that we're going into is the assimilation, the receiving, the drinking deeply of what we have received and really developing this habit of prayer and allowing the truths of our faith, the realities of our faith, the good news of our faith to just sink into the soil of our hearts and our souls. But I think also here, this is where one of the. Some of the sugar is being removed. Some of the sugar of, oh, this is interesting, this is new is being removed and the invitation just to go deep. You've been living religious life a long time. You've been praying a long time. You've been praying the rosary as a habit on a regular basis. Any initial words of encouragement for those who have really kind of appreciated that which is new and learning something new every day. And as that is kind of being taken away, just really growing in relationship and prayer and any. Just encouragement.

[B]

Yeah, well, the way that you describe that is very beautiful. I think on the front end, I think we can just all admit it's really hard for us to receive at times. It's hard for us just to allow it to be done unto us according to His Word. And I think all of us have that fear because when we're receptive, it makes us very vulnerable. And oftentimes we're terrified of vulnerability. We're terrified of being still. We're terrified of what might God reveal in the silence. If I'm not distracted or if I'm not just trying to doing the thing. Because the rosary is not doing the thing. Like we've all prayed the rosary in our life and we know people who have prayed the rosary, that the words are being spoken, but there's no transformation of the heart. So we embrace the rosary to have our heart to be transformed like Our Lady. And so I think we can all admit that that can be daunting and we get distracted at times and we feel bad about that. And so I just think there's a lot of things happening that, yeah, that our senses on that very top level can just kind of like, I need something to do, you know, I can't sit still. I don't know what to do. And I think just embracing that and always turning to the Lord first and saying, lord, teach me how to pray. Lord, hear my restlessness. Here's my fear, here's my Lord. I don't know how to do this. I'm afraid to receive from you. I'm not sure what's gonna happen if I really allow the rosary to penetrate the marrow of my soul. Because then I think we're being honest. That's exactly as, you know, where the Lord desires to meet us, where Our lady is so kind and she meets us there. So I think admitting that on the front end is just an honest way

[A]

of entering into prayer, maybe sharing from your own experience of prayer. Okay, now that we've accepted it and recognized it and named it, how do we now, how do we enter into that space with the Lord?

[B]

Well, for me, I always turn to the Lord first and I ask him to help me because I think a lot of times it becomes self reliant. Even prayer can become very self reliant. Where I have a belief that it's up to me to make something happen. It's up to me to get. If I do the right thing, then God will show up for me. We're so little. We can't change our hearts. We can't heal ourselves, we can't bring ourselves deeply into the mystery. We can dispose ourselves because prayer is a response to the divine invitation of love. I can dispose myself to receive him, but it's not my job to try to make something happen. And so I think turning to the Lord and saying, lord, help me, help me to pray. Order. Order. My heart here, Lord, help me. Help me to receive you. And then allowing that process to take place. You know, we talk about. St. Ignatius, talks about preparing for prayer and then the prayer and then kind of the aftercare of prayer. And so when I'm really going to pray that I'm having a space in my heart, a space in my home or wherever that is, in the chapel, whatever that is for us, where I can really sit and just be. Even if it's a mama nursing her baby at night, you know, just as she rocks her baby, that she is turning her heart to Our lady and just embracing the gift that God gave her and turning her heart there. So I think asking, first of all, asking the Lord. And I remember, you know, Father Timothy Gallagher, of course, I remember many years ago going to a Theology of the Body course with him, and it was Theology of the Body and the Interior Life. And he's just so lovely, just so gentle and kind. And I remember him saying that we often get distracted in our prayer. And then we feel bad that we get distracted, and then we, like, we kind of go off on the rails of like, oh, look at me. I'm such a bad person. I'll never be. And he said, he was just so kind. He said, no, you just notice, okay, Lord, I'm distracted here. And I'm just gonna bring my gaze back to you. And it's just such a gentle way of continuing, like, as we fail or as we kind of go off on tangents or we get lost in our worries, like, all right, Lord, here's my worry. So that means every aspect of our life is brought into prayer. Cause you and I, as we know, we often live very fragmented. I have my spiritual life over here. Like, I do the holy thing on Sunday or the rosary group. And then I have my emotional life over here. I've got my marriage over here. I've got my activities, my physical activities over here. But. But what the Lord is showing us is that everything is brought into communion with Him. So there's no aspect of our life. As we make this journey, the transformation takes place. And there's no aspect of my life that's out of bounds for the Lord. I'm talking to him about everything, and that's the prayer. Being gazed upon him and allowing everything in my life to be drawn up into his gaze and into communion. So I'm not living in isolation communion. I'm living more and more totally in communion. And the rosary is a gift to be able to help us do that, to have every mystery of our life. Like all of us have sorrowful mysteries, all of us have joyful mysteries always. All of us have glorious and luminous mysteries. And in those mysteries we're bringing everything into the light of God's love. And he shows us how he lives in them and how we live in them with Him. So he's just so kind to us. I'll never stop talking about how kind God is to us. So, yeah, that's what comes to my heart, is you invite that.

[A]

Now for those who have been following along the journey, this kind of happened. This came out months ago, but just this, the reminder that as we're praying the rosary, there's, there's a, there's a number of different points of what we can call like, emphasis. There can be a way in which, as we're praying the rosary there, it's, it's very, very kind of. We're staying very, very at the relational point insofar as we are like focusing on whom we are speaking to and whose. And whose presence we're in. Right where there's this, the lifting of the heart, the being, and in the presence of our Lord, of Our lady, loving them, letting them, staying there. And if that's what we're doing as we're praying the rosary, great, like, and if that, if that is what you feel called to do, and that is a source of grace for you, awesome in many ways almost. This is kind of where we're, we're trying to get to. There's also the encouragement to pay attention to the words themselves of the prayer. And then these, and these are so full of grace, these prayers given to us by our Lord and the our Father. This prayer that Jesus himself taught us, particularly that first half of the Hail Mary, really, this prayer that the Lord kind of gave us through the angel Gabriel and through. And through Elizabeth. And then there is the sitting with the contemplated, meditating upon the mysteries. Any kind of thoughts on navigating those waters of what do I do? And maybe a fear of maybe not doing the right thing in prayer, etc.

[B]

That's really true, Father. I'm glad that you brought that up. And yeah, I think that we're just such a beautiful mixture of many things in our life and the different seasons of our life that we go through. And I think that we need different things at different times. And the beautiful thing about the rosary is that has all of the three areas of prayer. Vocal prayer, meditative prayer and contemplative prayer. Because as I'm saying, the words And I'm allowing myself to sink into the words. I'm saying. Like you're saying the word of God, the living word of God. This is not just a nice poetry by somebody that wrote it. You know, thousands of. This is a living word of God. So I'm literally with my mouth proclaiming the living word of God. And so I can just allow those words to wash over me as I say them. And then in my mind, I'm formulating, allowing the Lord to formulate within me a picture of that mystery, of what happens. It's like a diamond. Like there's so many facets that you can't ever exhaust them. And different things are going to speak to us at different times in our life based on what our needs are. And then from that vocal prayer and the meditative prayer, then the Lord is so delighted to bring us into the contemplation, to bring us beyond ourselves. And we've all had experiences, I know myself, where the Lord just brought us into a mystery. All of a sudden, we were kneeling right there in the garden with Jesus, and we were seeing him weep over the things that break our hearts. Or we were with him as he shares his love with us, as we're with him in the scourging. Or we're with Our lady, we walk with her on the way to Calvary. It's just. These are timeless because they're alive, that God's alive. And so there's. We can't ever plumb the depths of these. And so I think sometimes we just need a. We just need the stillness. Sometimes we just need to speak, just to pray. Like the meditation, just praying, the repetition over and over and over again. Sometimes what will captivate us is the image that we come to. Like, what was the crowning of thorns like? Or what was the miracle at the wedding feast in Cana? Like, where are you in the scene? Do you want to sit next to Jesus? And then from that, the contemplation. Sometimes we think it's either all or nothing. Either I say the rosary, and then it becomes like this rote thing. And there's nothing wrong with. We need commitment. And yes, you made the promise to pray the rosary and you want to do that. But, man, I really think far better is one decade prayed with deep devotion, a deep attentiveness than the rote recitation of it where you're judging other people the whole time in your mind. And it's like. And then you finish the prayer. Like, I wasn't even praying, man. I don't even know what I was doing. I don't even know what I was doing. So I guess we have to be honest about that, too. Of like. And it doesn't have to be either. Or we can pray an entire Rosary with devotion. But sometimes I think we're afraid it's either all or nothing. Either I can't pray at all, or I have to pray all the. The whole rosary right now. Otherwise, it's not. And God doesn't love. He doesn't look at us like that. He's always just inviting us into invitation and love. So that invitation is always present. Even just one Hail Mary while you're washing the dishes. Great. Wonderful. You know, start there.

[A]

And I appreciate you saying that, Sister. I've kind of gone to the authorities of John Paul ii, Pope Benedict as well, to help with this encouragement. Cause I think there's some resistance toward it. Just like, it's a little bit uncomfortable in keeping your commitment to the rosary or in growing your devotion to the Rosary. Like, it's okay. It's okay if we stick with the decade. And again, we don't want to, like, inaccurately put these against each other. But there is a degree of quality over quantity of, like, you know, the goal is not just to get it done. The goal is to make it an offering of love to. To. To be given, to be received in prayer. And that's very much why in this and this phase, we're still, again, we're about two months into it, we're praying one decade of the Rosary together. And the encouragement, the habit that we're trying to develop is a forced practice of leisure, of, like, a leisureliness in prayer, of slowing down, of taking your time, of not hurrying through, but at the service, of really receiving and really drinking deeply and really making the offering in the time of prayer and not emphasizing, just getting it done. But there is a part of, like, the fear starts to happen. Well, if I don't have to say all five decades every day or whatever it is, then I'm afraid that I'm not gonna do any of it or I'm not gonna commit. So as people maybe hear us talking about this and maybe get a little uncomfortable. Do you have any. Yeah. Any kind of advice or encouragement?

[B]

I think that's really. Honestly, Father, where we turn to the Holy Spirit, we turn to the Holy Spirit for help, and we turn to the Holy Spirit to help us also understand what's happening within us. And because, quite frankly, some of us need the discipline of praying the whole Rosary and the angst is I don't want to sit here and I don't want to focus my mind. And so there's a. We want to jump out of it like a little kid. Like when you're trying to put them in the car seat, they just want to wiggle out. And sometimes what is needed in our heart is for us to sit, to be present with the Holy Spirit and say, I'm going to continue on this. And then sometimes the Holy Spirit is inviting us to particular times of deep contemplation, like we said, of maybe it's not the whole rosary, but maybe it's 10 decades. And so I think that's where we develop a relationship with the Holy Spirit, where we give the Holy Spirit permission to challenge us, to convict us, and also to comfort us and to show us what we need. And it's like, in many ways, it's like running a marathon, too. It's like, you don't start out running a marathon. You start out running a little bit at a time. So you can. And sometimes, especially when we're just beginning a whole rosary can be overwhelming. Or even when we do it for a long time, we just click into autopilot and we just kind of say the words without allowing the devotion to wash over us, to transform our hearts. Because like we said, this is the means to an end. Like, prayer is relationship with God. So the rosary is bringing us into relationship with God. Like you said, it's not. So I can tell everybody that I prayed my rosary today. How come you didn't do that? The rosary is the divine invitation into communion with Jesus and Mary. And so being able to honor that and to be able to do that. So I really think if we listen to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit will tell us, because the Holy Spirit challenges us, saying, okay, you need to finish, you know, or the Holy Spirit will bring us into maybe something else.

[A]

I think that maybe we can, with, with the Lord's help and the Holy Spirit's help, have some confidence and discerning of like, the movements of our hearts and why things are happening the way they're happening. Right. Part of the worldview behind the, the the rosary year, like journey plan goes back to my experience with the rosary as an 18 year old, where my only emphasis was getting it done.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But the difficulty of that, it was never, I, I, it's hard for me to think that most, like a lot of that was prayer. You know, I was like, it was just, I need to get this done. Because as I'm now like a Good Catholic, and I need to do it. And so ultimately what it ended up doing is kind of making the rosary an experience of like a burden or a task. And for me, at that point in life, it would have been helpful to just slow down and to maybe not try and do so much. At this point in my life where we have commitments to prayer, there's many areas in my life where the opposite is true. You know, where now it's time to sort of be faithful and be committed and persevere. But I don't always, always necessari want to. You know, that's, I think, the reality of, of humanity. And so there is a degree of. Of discernment. Of discernment. And, and again, with the Lord's help, just kind of trying to help discern the different movements of the heart. If, if I can kind of go back for a second insofar as these. We're meeting people at all different places and you, you shared some, some like, kind of vocabulary regarding prayer. And if we're going to go back to that, maybe if you, if you're comfortable with it, just kind of, if you could share a little bit of, of. Of like a little brief catechesis. You talk about vocal prayer, meditative prayer, contemplative prayer, and that those are all in the rosary for those who maybe could be encouraged by hearing it again or that language is new to them. Can you just give a brief introduction?

[B]

Yeah. The church has such a rich history of prayer, and it's so beautiful. Like, we have such a rich history from the very beginning of how Christ prays, teaching us how to pray from the Jews, even from the Old Testament, like the history of prayer and even prayer, fasting and almsgiving that comes from Jewish tradition. So there's so much in our Judeo Christian history and richness like this treasure trove of prayer. And so one of. I mean, there's many forms of prayer, but we talk about the three traditional forms of prayer, which is vocal prayer, meditative prayer, and contemplative prayer. And vocal prayer is me using my voice to proclaim the goodness of God, to express my needs, to pour my heart out to God. Vocal prayer could be the rosary. It could be the divine office, reading the Psalms out loud. It's. It's proclaiming the word of God. And so it is using our senses because we're embodied creatures. We're not angels. We're a union of soul and body. So it's an embodied use of my sense of my mouth to speak. Right, to speak into the air and to bring life into the world. And sometimes what that does is just even keeping that kind of sense occupied is helpful for our mind. Like, that's part of what the rosary does is a repetition of the word of God, which allows our heart to rest and to expand. And so vocal prayer. I mean, even the saints talk about Saint Lord have mercy on me, a sinner. A time, a form of vocal prayer that we can pray at any time, that just keeps our hearts united with the Lord. And then from that we go into meditative prayer, imaginative prayers also where with our mind, with our holy imagination. And we're often afraid of our holy imagination because we've often gone into fantasy in our life. And we've had some pretty painful things happen in fantasy, which is destructive to us. But our holy imagination is given to us to enter into something that is beyond us. And we can ask the Holy Spirit to purify our holy imagination and to Holy Spirit, bring me into this scene. Because it's always the living word of God, is always alive. So, Lord, bring me into the wedding feast in Cana. Bring me into the crucifixion, bring me into your Sermon on the mount. And like St. Ignatius loves to talk about that. Like, place yourself somewhere in the scene and it's the Lord saying it to you. So it's amazing how when we just put ourselves there and we allow the Lord to unfold that, and then it keeps our mind occupied. So our mind is fixed on the things of God. And then from that contemplation comes as a gift where the Lord brings us into his divine love and we open ourselves to that. And we've all had, I think, had moments of that where if you've ever been deeply in prayer or beholding something beautiful, where it seemed like time stopped and you were just beyond yourself, or maybe you looked at your watch and hours had gone by, or just it was a moment where you wish. You said, I just. I wish time would stop right here. Just like this fixation of something beyond us. And it's God calling us to. When you talk about the great saints like Saint Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, I mean, these great, like Mother Teresa, these great mystics of John Paul ii, these great mystics were deep into template of prayer, which is a gift that God gave them into the heart of God. But we can practice these forms of prayer at any time. And it's just so beautiful because we don't have to turn to other traditions. Like, there's so much in our own faith it's part of the living, Lord Jesus, love for us.

[A]

I'm a big fan of commitment. I believe there's a profound, I think, profoundly good for our humanity to make commitments and to be in committed states. And also I think there's a profound source of grace in making commitment. We've done this. This journey where we take all of our postulants out into the desert and you're out. You're like, you're. You're out there and you're just there. Like you're committed. And so when the things get difficult, you can't leave, you can't run. And so you. You work through it. And you wouldn't necessarily work through it if there was easy to get out of it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so we in our states of life have commitments of prayer. We both have prayers that, whether or not we want to or not, like, we have, like, we are. We are obliged, we are committed to them. And there's a showing up out of love and fidelity when maybe you don't always want to. But then there's also, like, especially early on, there can be some judgment of it. Oh. Like, oh, I'm kind of discouraged because how I thought I would come to prayer every day isn't necessarily how I am or what I thought would happen in prayer every day isn't necessarily happening. I'm very, very grateful. And I'm always moved, particularly when someone says, hey, like, I've been. I've been doing this whole journey with you. These people who have made this commitment and they've been keeping it every day. That's not easy. That would be. That's a struggle for me, the discipline of it. And I'm always very moved by it. And as we're growing in sort of this. This habit of prayer with the rosary, which we're starting a little bit small with, with the daily decade, is I don't just like. Any thoughts on. On commitment to prayer and what to expect and how to navigate it and. And it's important as we do build up the habit and kind of want to keep the habit with the rosary, but in other areas, when it kind of gets a little bit of a struggle.

[B]

Yeah. You hit on something very deep that all of us face commitments. And we need them, don't we? We need them. We need them in our religious life. We need them in marriages, need commitments. I mean, you talk about the holy commitment a couple makes to one another at the altar. And so all of us need that because there are gonna be times when we don't Feel like doing the thing. So when a couple has children, they make a commitment to their children, where the kid is vomiting and they have to change all their plans and things do not go the way they should. Or you make a commitment to study, made a commitment to the doctorate, Right? And so we need that because it purifies the places in our hearts where either out of fear or laziness or wanting to turn away, that we would not do that. So a commitment like religio, is to bind right to religion, to bind us, because we need something beyond ourselves. But. But underneath that commitment really has got to be the bedrock of devotion. And Dr. Bob Schuetz, who founded the John Paul II Healing center, famously tells a story that. He says this story very publicly, very often, that when he was in his mid-30s and he was a marriage and family therapist, and he and his wife were having marital struggles. And he said that he, you know, they're Catholic, they got married in the church. And he said he didn't want to do. His parents had divorced when he was 13. But he's like. So he. Remember, he looked at his wife who's since passed away, but he looked at his wife, and she's like. Probably like 4 foot 10, 5ft tall, like, little spitfire. And he looked at her and he said, look, I'm committed to you. I made a vow to you. I'm committed to you, and I'm not gonna divorce you. I'm in this for life. And she looked up at him with her big blue eyes and she said, I don't want your commitment. I want your devotion. And I just thought, isn't it so interesting that we have First Friday devotions? We don't have First Friday commitments. The Rosary is considered a devotion. We have a devotion to the Sacred Heart. I have a devotion to the Infant of Prague. And so I think understanding that commitments are important, but they become chafing and they become. They can make us bitter if underneath that is not fueled by a soft heart of devotion, of love. And sometimes both wanes, sometimes commitment wanes, sometimes devotion wanes. But allowing the Lord to remember the why of what we're doing. Like, why am I committed to prayer? Why am I committed to my spouse? And underneath that is the avenue of God's love. And I think that's really challenging for me many times of like, ugh, I don't wanna do this. But, Lord, I wanna love you. And I don't always love you very well, and I need help doing that. So please, Lord, ignite my love. Soften my heart, feel my heart. Because I want this to be an act of love, even if it doesn't feel like it. Lord, please help me. Does that make sense? So I think that's been really helpful for me.

[A]

Yeah, that's exceedingly helpful. And I think that. Would you say that maybe the difference between a commitment versus devotion is the why of like what drives it? Is it a matter of just duty and responsibility? Or is it like a, a free gift of love? Is that like how you would make the distinction?

[B]

Devotion to me speaks of the heart. I mean, you're. Aren't you saying we're committed to our religious life because we're devoted to Christ. We're committed to loving one another in our religious communities because we're devoted to Christ. We're in many ways devoted to each other. We have a love for each other. And so the commitment is undergirded by love, by a greater love. And it's always that love that we need to go back to is because that love gives us the why that we're doing what we're doing. Because there are many times in many seasons of life, life is not fun and there are really hard things and things we don't feel like doing. We don't want to do always the right thing. We don't want to do the thing that we know is good for us. But underneath that, if we can go back down to like, lord, I love you and I want to experience your love and help me. It goes back to the dependence on God of me not being self reliant of like I did the thing. It's like, Lord, I want to do this thing that's right and I don't experience any love or openness in my heart. Lord, please help me. And that's, that's the tenderness of our heart. That's that back the child in union with the father. That's the beloved in love with her lover of. I want to be one with you, Lord, please help me here. That's. I think to me that's a different way of living.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And there's some of it, like what, what it brings to mind is our Lord's words to like St. John, like, behold your mother, right? And from that moment he took her into his home. It's an invitation of love. But it was like a state, like, I'm bringing our lady into my home as mother and we're gonna do life together and she's gonna be mom to me, you know, And I think that's, that's A little bit of where we want to be with. With prayer. It is. It's. It's. It's not just about, again, a task or duty or responsibility or bare, sterile commitment. But it is devotion. But it. But love, like, gives itself. And love does sort of say, yes. Not just when it's easy or fun, whatever, but. But there's a perseverance to it.

[B]

Can I just say there also, Father, that Pope Benedict beautifully, in one of his, I believe, a homily about Our lady, about that Scripture passage, he said that really the Greek word of take her into your home is take her into all that is yours. And I think that's really to take a woman for men and women, to take a woman, to take a mother into all that is yours. All that is ours stirs up a lot of things in our heart because all of us have had experiences of feminine love. And we've had moms. We've had moms that were present to us, moms that weren't. We've had women in our life. We've had experiences. And so, really, to allow. Gosh. To allow the kindness of Our Lady's love and the motherliness and the gentleness and the strength, though, and the steadfastness of her love into all that is mine, that can be very difficult for us based on our own experiences with our moms or our experiences with women of, like. I don't know if I want to allow her. Will she take something from me? Will she emasculate me for men? Will she be unkind? Will she be critical, like my mother was, whatever that story is? And I think I've had to go to Our lady over and over and over again and just say, mom, I need to know you. I need to know you. It's gonna make me cry. I need to know you. Because I have a lot of experiences about my own femininity and about women. I need to know, like, how kind you're. And how beautiful it is. And I think that's where she shows us like, she's a real person. It's. It took it out of the statue. Kind of, like, facade I had of her and all the fears I had of her. Like, I was afraid of her. I had. Like, there were parts of me I was like, oh, she's gonna condemn me here. She's gonna turn away from me here. She's. And she's not like that. She's just so beautiful. Like, she's just so kind and lovely and strong and just. Gosh, she's all that we want to be. She's so beautiful. And that's. That's what she's inviting us to. It's not this exterior practice. But would we allow. Would we just allow her to come into everything that is ours and to transform it? Because that's all she does. She just transforms it and gives it to her son, and we become more like Jesus. That's all she wants to do. It's like, gosh, man, who doesn't want that? You know?

[A]

Thank you, Sister. And obviously, like, the movement of your heart and the emotion shows that. That you have experienced Mary in her motherhood as more than just a statue, but as a real mother. And this is the. For me, the big, like, invitation. This is the why of what we're doing. Like, the way we're doing it is so that our listeners and those who are journeying with us can have this experience and can have a place to bring this cry of the heart to Our Lady. Like, I want to know you, and I want. I want to bring all of my heart to you in a way which is not just intellectual, which is not just a thought experience, not just Mary as an object of devotion or theological reality, but as a real mother who we can have a real relationship with and really share all of our lives with. And I believe that the place in which this happens is a place of prayer. It's a struggle, though, because there's so. There's so much trying to draw us into something more flashy, immediate, interesting, entertaining, pressing, easier to control than prayer and relationship. And so why we're fighting to really enter into the stillness in this place of prayer is so that we can bring. Have a place and go to the place where we can bring this cry of the heart and really experience Mary's motherhood in our life.

[B]

Yeah, I think the catechism is the catechism that says we can't pray at all times unless we pray at some time. And it's like, yeah, it's true. We need, like, you're talking about commitment and devotion. We need that time set apart where we go into our inner room. Because every single human person has a place in their soul and their heart that's reserved just for God alone. That nobody else has access to something nobody can soil or taint or destroy is preserved by God. The enemy can't touch that place. It's the inner guard in the inner room. And our whole life is to live more and more from that place. Cause when we do that, when you and I live from that truth of Our identity and that place in our soul. We love each other better. Like we just, we love everything more ordered. Like we love with a love, the way God love. We see people the way he sees them, we see ourselves. And you know, we often say that we're not on a healing journey so we can get back into control and kind of do our own thing. We're on a journey of healing and Christian discipleship so that our hearts become like Jesus, because that's where Jesus lives. He lives from that relationship with the Father, which is not like a nice pietistical idea. It's a lived reality. And he. He's bringing us into that. And all we have to do is say yes and we just say yes over and over and over again. And then like we said, everything is brought into union with Christ. There's nothing off limits in our life that we're hiding over here. It's all brought into the love of God. And he transforms that. He purifies it. He heals us, he forgives us, he strengthens us. He raises the valleys and levels the mountains and makes our heart prepared to receive him more deeply.

[A]

Thank you, sister. Yeah, Our lady is so good and so beautiful and what God has done, doing in her life and how she can just love us so well are just so real. And I think I certainly experienced all these truths and these realities in you as well. And yeah, I just am very grateful for you and I know that, yeah, your sharing of your own heart and your own love of Our lady and experience of her is going to touch many listeners as it has for me. And what a joy it is for to get a front row seat. So thank you, Sister. And I know these are words that we kind of use and they can kind of lose their meaning a little bit, but I am exceedingly grateful for you and exceedingly grateful to God that he has brought my journey into such a place where I get to know you and to be with you. And so thank you, sister.

[B]

Oh, thank you, Father. That's a great gift and I love you very much. And you guys are just so dear to my heart and you're such a beautiful witness to me and a strength. So thank you so much. It's a, it's a joy to walk with you. Yeah.

[A]

Amen. And so, God willing, we'll have some more time to here and there, do life together. But for today, that'll bring us to a close. Would you be able to just end our time together here with prayer?

[B]

Sure, yeah, let's do that. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. I'm just going to invite you, dear friends, just to kind of notice what's happening in your heart right now and just notice what's stirring. Just notice any thoughts that are arising. And the emotions that are arising. And it's okay. Just allow whatever happens to come to the surface, just encompassed in God's love. And I just ask you, Mother Mary, you who so tenderly love each of us, you who delight in each of your children in a very particular and unique way. Mama. I would just ask, Mama, what do you want? What do you want us to know about your love for us right here today? What do you, as a mother, what do you want us to know about your love? And I just pray, Mother, that your. Your deep and fierce intercession for us, your protection of us, your. Your love for us, your care for us, your beautiful voice, just the kindness of your heart would envelop each and every one of us today, that you would bring us into deeper union with you and with your son. We offer you to you, Mother, all of our fears, all of our anxieties, all of our faults and failings. We offer to you our strengths, our hopes, our dreams, our deepest desires. We give to you, Mama, knowing that you will only purify them and give them to your son. We ask a special blessing upon Fr. Mark Barry and the entire team at Ascension Pres. They will be protected and guided along this journey. We just thank each one of you. Dear listeners, listeners, dear viewers, we're thankful for you. We just ask a deep blessing upon your hearts. And perhaps we could all pray together as one family. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[A]

Amen. Well, thank you again, Sister Miriam, for joining us. And thank you to everyone who's tuned in or is listening or watching. And thank you for continuing to journey and to pray with me. And I look forward to beginning this new phase, Phase four, finding Focus with you. You all right? Friends, remember Poco Poco, little by little, all right? God bless you. Thanks again, Sister.