Anna Wintour On Vogue’s Next Era

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue — "Anna Wintour On Vogue’s Next Era" (September 9, 2025)

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Overview:

This landmark episode features a special crossover with the New Yorker Radio Hour. Anna Wintour, the legendary Editor-in-Chief of Vogue and current Global Editorial Director at Condé Nast, sits down with David Remnick to reflect on her legacy, the fast-changing world of fashion, and the magazine's future as Chloe Malle steps in as the new Head of Editorial Content for American Vogue. The discussion covers editorial leadership, fashion’s evolving social and political context, print vs. digital strategy, inclusivity, the industry’s economic realities, and signature Wintour insights on creativity and style.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Passing the Torch: Chloe Malle’s New Role

• Anna Wintour on Malle:
  Anna expresses confidence and high praise for Chloe’s appointment, noting her balance of vision and understanding of contemporary culture.
  • “She really had to prove herself. During the interview process, we saw a lot of amazing, amazing candidates. And Chloe consistently came back with the clearest vision and the most original ideas and understanding of what a Vogue...in two years is gonna look like.” — Anna Wintour (03:14)
• Specifies Chloe’s strengths: newsroom acumen, understanding of culture, humor (e.g., her wildly successful “Doge” story).
• Anna reflects on the timing of her decision, citing sweeping industry changes:
  • “There's well over 40 new creative directors in very high level positions all over Europe and some here...it seemed like a good moment to bring in someone with a different perspective and a different generation who could look at things in a new way.” (04:15)

2. Editorial Transition: Overlapping Eras

• Anna and Chloe will work in the same office space, a dynamic both acknowledge as odd but strategically positive.
  • "I implicitly trust Chloe, and I want her to succeed to the best possible degree...She doesn’t work in any way in isolation. She’s very open. She’s very communicative." (06:23-06:50)
• Anna insists Malle is “her own person,” not an “Anna Mini Me”:
  • "She just wants to be herself and show herself and prove herself and make news, as I'm sure she will." (08:12)

3. Vogue’s Changing Influence: From Print to Digital

• Remnick prompts discussion on Vogue’s reach in the TikTok and Instagram era:
  • "Chloe has a much bigger platform than I had when I came in." (08:54)
• Print’s role is described as increasingly special and event-driven, not a vehicle for day-to-day content:
  • "We all look at print as something that is collectible and something you might want to archive and hold onto. And I think it also has to represent a news breaking moment." (12:08)

4. Fashion’s Place in Troubled Times

• Wintour passionately defends fashion’s creative and expressive significance, even amidst crises:
  • “How boring would it be if everybody was just wearing a dark suit and a white shirt all the time?... It's a form of creativity. And that's why we need fashion and great designers.” (14:06)
• Politically, Anna regards Vogue’s progressive slant as closely tied to her personal values, adding, “It’s a tough time for Democrats...hopefully somebody will emerge in the not too distant future that will challenge our current administration.” (31:44)

5. Editorial Control, Leadership, and Global Vision

• Myth of total control: Anna says her singular overseeing touch is “exaggerated” (14:50), emphasizing team empowerment.
• Details her evolving role as global editorial director, overseeing all editions but relying on local expertise for cultural nuance.
  • “There's no way that you can keep up with every single platform across all the territories. But I certainly keep my eyes out.” (15:29)

6. Formative Experiences and Style

• Anna recounts her journalistic upbringing and ambition (“write you want to be editor of Vogue” at age 13), getting fired from Harper's Bazaar, and her multitasking days at New York Magazine.
• On her own style:
  • “For my hair, it was always pretty much this way.” (23:58)
  • “The glasses—just because I’m very short sighted, but they also help me get through situations.” (24:15)
• Typical day: rising early, reading broadly, maintaining fitness, and diving headlong into work (24:51-25:34).

7. Industry Dynamics: Designer Turnover and Creative Renewal

• Discusses the unprecedented wave of new creative directors at major houses:
  • “It’s one moves and then it's like a pack of cards...But it is totally true that this is the first time...we had so many openings in so many high profile houses... I think it will be a very creative moment.” (26:57)
• Shout-outs: Jonathan Anderson at Dior, Matthieu Blazy at Chanel, Sarah Burton at Givenchy, Louise Trotter at Bottega, Demna at Gucci, etc. (27:45)

8. Luxury vs. Creativity

• Anna disdains the term ‘luxury,’ calling it “dated” and overused:
  • “It seems like a sort of dated...I like the idea of creativity...you're investing in someone's creativity and vision. And to me, that's much more interesting than the idea of luxury.” (29:29-30:13)

9. Economic Realities: Trade, Tariffs, and Uncertainty

• Anna notes industry anxiety over “Trump’s tariffs,” shifting production out of China, and the challenges for smaller businesses (31:00).
• Remnick and Anna discuss consumers’ hesitation as they await the vision of incoming designers.

10. Pop Culture and Political Moments

• Anna describes being unaware of AOC’s famous “Tax the Rich” dress until the day after the Met Ball:
  • “I just love your dress. Cause I'd only seen her from the front, and it wasn't until the next day that I understood what had happened.” (18:10)
• On The Devil Wears Prada:
  • Anna quietly embraced the caricature, found it “highly enjoyable and very funny,” and took pride in its wit and humor (33:57-34:24).

11. Celebrity Covers and Editorial Evolution

• Defends the shift to celebrities on Vogue covers (e.g., Madonna), reflecting changing audiences:
  • “Madonna...certainly loved and epitomized fashion...and it just felt like the right time.” (35:24)
• She recounts resistance from traditionalists, which confirmed Vogue needed to evolve.

12. Proudest Achievements

• Anna refuses to name a single defining story or cover:
  • “It's about who you surround yourself with entirely. And in the end, that's by far the most important accomplishment to me.” (36:16)

13. Lightning Round and Personal Quips

• On the greatest designer of her era: “As editor, David, I only look towards the future.” (37:51)
• Most lamentable trend: “DayGlo.” (38:05)
• Fact-checking rumors (e.g., “Jeff Bezos was interested in buying Conde Nast: false.” 38:11)
• On her favorite look for Remnick: “I really like you in those New Yorker sweatshirts.” (38:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the print-digital future:
  “Print has to feel more substantial, more important. I mean, it's our Runway show.” — Anna Wintour (12:52)

• On fashion’s value:
  “People are individuals and they ought to be able to express themselves, and it's a form of creativity. And that's why we need fashion and great designers.” — Anna Wintour (14:06)

• On creative leadership:
  "You have to learn how to do everything...and that was the best training." — Anna Wintour (21:33)

• On personal ambition:
  “He said, well, you just write you want to be editor of Vogue. And so, yes...I wrote that in and then I felt confident and yes, this was something that I could work towards.” — Anna Wintour (20:37)

• On 'Devil Wears Prada':
  “I found it highly enjoyable and very funny...it had Meryl Streep. I mean, it was Emily Blunt. I mean, they were all amazing. And in the end, I thought it was a fair shot.” (34:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Chloe Malle’s appointment and Anna’s endorsement: 02:30–04:12
• Editorial transition and office dynamics: 05:43–07:52
• Print vs. digital discussion: 10:49–13:50
• On fashion’s relevance during tough times: 14:41
• Anna’s career beginnings, style, work habits: 20:04–25:34
• Wave of new designers and naming standouts: 26:48–28:57
• Luxury vs. creativity: 29:29–30:13
• Political engagement and the role of Vogue: 31:26–32:32
• Pop culture, AOC’s Met Ball moment, and The Devil Wears Prada: 18:10, 33:05–34:24
• Celebrity covers and evolution of Vogue: 34:40–36:12
• Lightning Round & personal quips: 37:47–38:51

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, witty, and reflective, characterized by Anna’s signature poise and razor-sharp clarity, Remnick’s thoughtful questioning, and moments of affectionate humor as they look both backward and forward at Vogue and its transformative cultural influence.

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For those interested in the inner workings of Vogue, Anna Wintour’s legacy, and the future of fashion media, this episode is a masterclass in editorial leadership, adaptability, and vision.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

And I'm Cho Minati.

[A]

And today we have a very special crossover episode. Thanks to our colleagues at the New Yorker Radio Hour. David Remnick sat down with Anna Wintour to talk about all of the big changes in the world and. And at Vogue.

[B]

Yes, they discuss Anna's early days at Vogue, how Donald Trump's tariffs are affecting the industry, and of course, big news about our very own Chloe becoming the head of editorial content at American Vogue.

[A]

I have to say, I was like extremely overwhelmed and excited, but sort of feeling like I was in a fugue a bit. And then this figure sort of approached my office and I looked up and it was David Remnick. And he came in and said, mazel tov. And I said, okay, this just makes it.

[C]

This is everything. This is the moment.

[A]

Yes. Remnick telling me mazel tov. Really made this feel real and exciting in a new way that no flowers could do.

[D]

I know.

[B]

I feel like for me, any Remnick sighting, I still get starstruck when I bump into him in the elevator when I'm in New York.

[C]

I just feel like it's David Remnick.

[A]

I know, I know. He's a real celebrity crush around these parts.

[B]

He really is.

[C]

He's the best.

[A]

We hope that everyone enjoys this conversation. And we will be back Thursday with another episode of the Run Through.

[C]

Here I am a lamb to the slaughter.

[D]

That's exactly what's gonna happen. How are you?

[C]

Good, Good.

[D]

Come. So, Anna, we are talking on the day that Conde Nast announced that Chloe Mao is going to succeed you as editor of American Vogue. How do you feel?

[C]

I feel great. I love Chloe. I'm very happy for her. She's gonna do a brilliant job. We've worked together for well over a. But at the same time, she really had to prove herself. During the interview process, we saw a lot of amazing, amazing candidates. And Chloe consistently came back with the clearest vision and the most original ideas and understanding of what a Vogue in. Well, I don't think we can talk in five, 10 years anymore. In two years is gonna look like. And I what are the specifics? She understands a newsroom. She understands mediacy. She understands culture. She understands completely that fashion doesn't exist in a vacuum, that it's a result of many different forces, whether it's something that might be happening in music or film or politically, and wants to put it into that kind of a context. Plus, she, you know, she has a great sense of humor. I mean, her story that she thought of this summer called Doge, I mean, it went through, through the roof with our numbers. And it was so much fun just to look at all those crazy dogs dressed up with earrings and beautiful collars. And celebrities from all over the world were sending their dogs. So she has a really good balance about what works now.

[D]

Why step aside from American Vogue now? Have you been thinking about this for a long time?

[C]

I have been thinking about it for some time, and it felt like this was the right time because we're seeing so much change in fashion when we go off to the shows. Well, actually, I think they start next week. I believe there's well over 40 new creative directors in very high level positions all over Europe and some here. So it seemed like a good moment to bring in someone with a different perspective and a different generation who could look at things in a new way.

[D]

Now, at first, in 1988, you burst on the scene as the new Vogue editor by putting somebody on the COVID with a pair of jeans on. In fact, I noticed that Chloe was wearing jeans. She was in her photograph on the Vogue website. She may be signaling something.

[C]

I think that picture was taken a while ago, but she looked great. And similarly to Chloe. I had been working at Vogue as creative director before I took the position as at American Vogue and also at British Vogue. So I also had some history, and I think that's a very helpful way to start a new job, to understand how things work, who the people are, how decisions are made, and Maybe you want to do things in a different way, but just having that is a huge advantage.

[D]

So you have this odd situation now. You are not leaving your office, your physical office. You've got two huge jobs at Conde Nast, where you're the editorial director of. Well, of everything. And you've got a lot going on, whether it's the Met gala or your other interests in family and all this. But you're right there, and your successor is down the hall. And Chloe said this to the Times today. The truth is that no one's going to replace Anna. And so you're gonna be right down the hall. And the Times wrote that both women have acknowledged the strangeness of this arrangement. How will this work?

[C]

Well, I think I implicitly trust Chloe, and I want her to succeed to the best possible degree. I think that she is beloved by her team. I think that she will require from all of us, not just me, from everybody. And from our editors group, from everybody here at Conde Nast. I think she'll. And she's the kind of editor that welcomes that. She doesn't work in any way in isolation. She's very open. She's very communicative. Her office is always full of people. She's very outgoing.

[D]

But will you be in her head, is what I mean. In other words, will she be trying to edit?

[C]

I don't think so.

[D]

Please.

[C]

I absolutely don't think so. I think she's very much her own person. She has her own point of view.

[D]

I mean, how does it differ?

[C]

She's. I think she looks at things with a more. What's the right word? Not eccentric, quirky, unusual point of view. She comes at things from different angles. She's interested in fashion, but not obsessed with it. So that there are many levels that will weigh into her decisions. I think that she will not be drawn into. I don't like this word, but a fashionista conversation. I think that she will be able to step back and look at things in a very healthy context.

[D]

Has the fashionista conversation dissipated and disappeared in the contemporary world?

[C]

I think it exists very much in certain circles. And I think that what I love about Chloe is that she's an insider, but she's also an outsider.

[D]

What you're saying is she doesn't want to be an Anna Mini Me?

[C]

No, not at all. And that was very clear during the interview process and all the conversations that we've had. She wants to be her own person. I think she's not interested in those kinds of comparisons. She just wants to be Herself and show herself and prove herself and make news, as I'm sure she will.

[D]

So when you took over Vogue, Vogue had this immensely central place in this very big business and in the fashion discussion. And now we live in an age of Instagram, TikTok, the technological democratization of fashion itself, and God knows what role AI is going to play. So how is her job different from yours?

[C]

Well, I look on Vogue as being the world's biggest fashion influencer. If you look at our reach from a social perspective, American Vogue alone has well over 50 million followers. If you look at the numbers that we receive on our site or on our app or the way whatever we may be putting across any of our platforms are received or seen or heard, that the influence is immeasurable. So I think, in a way, Chloe has a much bigger platform than I had when I came in. I always remember Alex Lieberman telling me.

[D]

Editorial director in those days.

[C]

Editorial director, wonderful figure. My mentor and my boss for many years. He used to tell me that they would go to Jones beach in the afternoons. Cause there wasn't that much to do. Can you imagine that, David?

[D]

I really cannot.

[C]

No. So I don't think that Chloe will be spending any of her time at Joan's beach in the afternoon. But I actually think, if I remember when I started at American Vogue and it was solely a print publication with, you know, a few events and genteel sort of parties that we had to go to. Now she has all these different ways of talking to our audiences, whether it's Through Social or TikTok. TikTok. Or print or events which are a huge part of what we think about today or, you know, any of the many, many ways that we reach our audiences. How amazing, how exciting, how interesting, how culturally relevant is it? And it's so fascinating to see how much Vogue means to our world. I mean, I was flooded with emails. This. It does mean a lot to people within the fashion world and without. And it's a great honor and it's a great responsibility.

[D]

You mentioned print. When I started in 1998 at the New Yorker, I thought I was about to lose my job within a month. Cy Newhouse, of course, owns the joint and ran Conde Nast completely and thoroughly in those days. Asked to have lunch with me at his apartment. Usually we went to some restaurant.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And I thought, well, this is a world record. You've really done it. And he took out.

[C]

Was it a yellow pad?

[D]

He took out a yellow pad. And we were losing money at that point. I won't Say how much, but it was not insubstantial. And he said, you know, if we went from weekly to bi weekly, we would save millions and millions of dollars and we would suddenly become profitable. And then he said something that I'll never forget. He said, but it's your decision. It was the editor's decision to make this very consequential. And I decided pretty quickly that that would signal in fact something terrible. Not only it would be terrible for the New Yorker, it would be terrible for business, is that it would signal the life magazinization of the New Yorker. We live in a very different time now. The Internet was not in play then. What does print mean going forward for Vogue? Chloe in fact mentioned that she wants to have fewer print editions. Why?

[C]

Well, I think we all look at print as something that is collectible and something you might want to archive and hold onto. And I think it also has to represent a news breaking moment. Like you need a reason to put somebody on the COVID for any of the stories that you might be running inside. And I think think that's what Chloe was talking about, that it has to feel in a way more important, more substantial and separate from the day to day news breaking stories that we put up on your site or our site.

[D]

But it's not purely a decision about decline of print advertising or it's not a purely business decision.

[C]

I think it's the right decision and I think there's a lot of different factors that play into it. And obviously it's something that we all need to think, sit down and talk about and figure out what the right path is going forward. But I think it comes from the idea that print has to feel more substantial, more important. I mean, it's our Runway show. If you think about how many people actually go to a Vuitton fashion show, it's between four and 800 people. But then it goes out to millions and millions and I think instantly by Instagram, Instagram, on livestream, whatever it may be. And I think print has that same responsibility. You're giving a message, you're making news, you're giving your vision, but it doesn't necessarily have to be over and over again many, many times a year. I mean, I think most of the big designers probably have six or seven shows a year, which is already a lot.

[D]

You're a very politically engaged person and a very politically aware person. And it's no news to you that the world right now is in so many ways in really bad condition. How do you make a case that fashion is important in the midst of all that?

[C]

Well, I think fashion is always important. It's a question of self expression and a statement about yourself and, you know, whether it's a loud logo you might choose to put on yourself or something with a color. So I think fashion can say so many different things, and forgive me, David, but how boring would it be if everybody was just wearing a dark suit and a white shirt all the time? I think people are individuals and they ought to be able to express themselves, and it's a form of creativity. And that's why we need fashion and we need great designers.

[D]

For decades, you've been known as the editor with exacting control over every spread. Every.

[C]

Is that very much exaggerated?

[D]

Is it?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

I don't buy that you don't say yes or no on everything that's in.

[C]

Vogue up to a point. I mean, you know, I oversee so many different Vogues now that it's impossible to have that kind of detail. I think it's really important to surround yourself with people whom you admire and that you respect. I really rely on the editors that we have there to. I can say, I don't think this looks so great, but they can come right back and say, this is what will work in this culture.

[D]

So what I mean is, how deeply do you get into other Vogues, other magazines, either here in the United States or around the world?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I. How granular in terms of Vogue? I look at every print issue before it goes to what's hypothetically called the press. And, you know, I will look at their sites. I can't understand all the languages, I look at all their social media. But it's. It's an. I will make suggestions and call and say, are we sure about this? Or why aren't we doing that? But, you know, there's no way that you can keep up with every single platform across all the territories. But I certainly keep my eyes out.

[D]

Did you ever feel like along the way, did you have a time or a year or a moment? You think, enough with this. I can do a lot of things. I just. Enough.

[C]

Actually, no, David, because I love what I do. And I grew up, as you know, in a family of journalists where we were always being dragged home from vacation, holidays, as we would say in the uk, because some news was happening. And in those days, you couldn't do email or zooms. You had to be there. My dad was someone who always had to be there. He had to be in the newsroom. And that was actually exciting in a way. And Our house was full of journalists and politicians and interesting people. And I find that today just as exciting and just as interesting. And I'm always more interested in looking forward than looking back. I do think sometimes we spend too much time on nostalgia.

[D]

How do you mean?

[C]

I think people always ask, what was that based on? Or what was your inspiration? And sure, people have inspirations and they have unconscious thoughts in their heads, but true creative design, I'm talking about the fashion world, true creative designers. And I'm sure it's same with your world. It's original. It comes from their mind, not from somebody else's mind. Maybe they had some influences, but the idea is theirs. And when I work with Andrew Bolton, who's the chief curator at the Metropolitan Museum, we work very closely together every year on the Met exhibitions. And it's so fascinating and exciting and interesting to see how his mind works and how the ideas form. And yes, he reads a lot, he looks at a lot, but in the end, the original thinking is entirely Andrew's. So to me, that that's a great artist.

[D]

I wonder how you felt when Alexandria Ocasio Cortez arrived at the Met Ball in a white dress slathered with the slogan tax the rich.

[C]

Yes, well, I'll tell you a story about that, David. She was actually sitting at my table, and I stand in the receiving line, and I don't see the people arriving on the carpet. I don't have a secret livestream coming being zoomed into my earphone. I'm just standing there, shaking everybody's hands, saying, thank you for coming, blah, blah, blah. So I said, you know, thank you for coming. And she went by, and then I went up to her before we all sat down at the table, I said, I just love your dress. Cause I'd only seen her the front from the front, and it wasn't until the next day that I understood what had happened. So, fortunately, I had a wonderful evening.

[D]

And when you saw it later, how'd you feel?

[C]

Well, you know, that's something going back to what we were talking about before. I think everybody uses fashion in different ways, and obviously that was something that was important to her.

[B]

Hi, it's Cho Menardi. If you're not on the Vogue app yet, what the hell are you doing?

[C]

You can follow along with me and.

[B]

Other editors as we talk about everything happening in fashion. Think you're already a fashion expert? Well, find out how your Runway IQ stacks up against the Vogue community with an all new Runway genius leaderboard. So download the Vogue app today. And you'll never miss a moment.

[A]

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[D]

Your father was at the London Evening Standard.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Your brother, is he back from Iran?

[C]

He just came back. Yes. Safely.

[D]

Thank you. Is that the Guardian? Yeah. Journalism is in your blood and you found your place in it. God knows how did. The most interesting part of any biography for me is not the later big triumphs, as interesting as they can be, but how somebody becomes themselves in a sense, how they invent themselves. When you think about that, how you became the Anna Wintor that at least the public knows and understands. Where do you think that all came from?

[C]

I think I was so lucky. As we were discussing before in my upbringing and meeting all these people and knowing that I wanted to work in journalism, in media, but being very aware of my father's success in Fleet street, as it was then called in Fleet street, and not wanting to be part of his world and trying to make my own mark and filling out all those stupid school forms that you have to do and asking my dad, well, what shall I fill in? When you write what you want to be, this is a true story. He said, well, you just write you want to be editor of Vogue. And so, yes.

[D]

Age. What?

[C]

I don't know, 13. So I wrote that in and then I felt confident and yes, this was something that I could work towards. And the other thing, working, my first job was working in London. Like, there's no money, there's no staff, there's no teams. You have to learn how to do everything.

[D]

What was the job?

[C]

I worked my first job, I worked at Harper's Queen and I was in the fashion department. And you had to cover the market, go on shoots, write the captions, lay it out, go to events, go to the shows. It was just, you know, the original sort of multitasker. And I think that you have to.

[D]

Know how to operate a needle and thread. Sewing.

[C]

Yeah. I was never any good at that.

[D]

Never any good at that.

[C]

Yes. Awful. But so when I came to the States and, you know, there was a shoe editor and an underwear editor. And a fabric editor. It was also siloed. I felt very confident because I sort of knew how to do everything and that that was the best training.

[D]

But wait, you determined your final. Not final destination, as it turns out. It was helpful at that early age. I'm going to be the editor of Vogue, which is a little bit like saying, I'm going to play shortstop for the Yankees. And that was Derek Jeter.

[C]

Well, it was a goal. It wasn't, you know, it was a goal to work towards. And obviously there were many ups and downs along the way, including getting fired from Harper's Bazaar, because I was told I would never understand the American market.

[D]

So tell me about the firing.

[C]

It was very brief. It was very brief. Very brief.

[D]

The conversation. The conversations.

[C]

Very, very brief.

[D]

What was the start? We've all done it. How do you do it?

[C]

How do I try and be kind and thoughtful and, you know, listen to what people have to say? But I was not given that. I was basically told to leave, so. But I think everyone should be fired once. You've probably never been fired, David, but.

[D]

You had two jobs. So far, so good.

[C]

But it helps you get everything into proportion. And pick myself up. And eventually landed at New York Magazine, where my multitasking really came into full use, because there wasn't anyone there that understood anything that I was. That I was doing. And I was very lucky to work for Ed Kozner, who was a wonderful editor and gave me free rein. And that's where I caught Alexander Lieberman, the editorial director of Conde Nast. I. And then I moved over to American Vogue.

[D]

I hope this is not a sexist question, but maybe we could ask it of men, too. I hope we do. How did you develop your look and why?

[C]

Well, for my hair, it was always pretty much this way. And then it's not a Louise Brooks influenced anymore. British hairdresser decided they were gonna experiment on me, and they cut it into three layers. And it was honestly the worst haircut you've ever seen in your entire life. So I think I wore a hat for a year. And then after that I resolved not to cut my hair except this way ever again. And I mean, the glasses, just because I'm very short sighted, but they also help me get through situations.

[D]

Were you bored to death?

[C]

You said that, not me.

[D]

I did. I think I'm gonna take it up. Another thing that you're known for is your ability to do about 3,000 things in a given day. Give me how your days typically go. When do you get up? What do you do? And how is it carried out?

[C]

Well, I get up really early, 4:35 o'. Clock, and I read online the papers, all the English papers and the Times. And then I have a lovely walk through Washington Square park where you see a very interesting slice of life and go to the gym. And then I run back.

[D]

And then you were a runner when you were a kid, right?

[C]

Yeah, I was. I was. Yeah. My grandfather was a very, very fast runner. He ran for Harvard. And I was always being encouraged to run, to go into serious training. But I just. I didn't take that path. It was the 60s in London.

[D]

So I took another path.

[C]

I took another path, many other paths. And then, you know, I go to the office and then the day starts.

[D]

And then the day starts. And you've said you'd never write a book about your life. Why is that?

[C]

Never? I don't think I'm that interesting and.

[D]

Okay, that's where you're wrong.

[C]

Thank you, David. But I really, I don't. I just. It's not a story I want to.

[D]

Tell because it's too personal, it digs too deep, or you're bored with it. You're born with the past.

[C]

The past is done and I can't rewrite it. And of course, there are lots of wonderful things about it too, but it's just not something that is of any remote interest to me. Are you ever going to write the story of your life, David?

[D]

I don't think so.

[C]

There you go.

[D]

I'd like to learn something new, like Chinese or something. So there was a time that even unschooled people like me knew about, or a little bit about designers of huge influence at least knew their names or kind of sketch of what they did. Lagerfeld, Miuccia Prada, who's still very much around. Galliano, Marc Jacobs, still a bunch around. Suddenly, nearly all the fashion houses are led by young or younger designers whose names are not particularly well known.

[C]

But they will be. And many of them are.

[D]

And not many are women either.

[C]

No, that's.

[D]

So how do you assess this new scene? That.

[C]

Well, it's. It's one moves and then it's like a pack of cards. Why? Well, because one designer goes from A to B and then that leaves an opening and then somebody else is slotted in and then there's another opening. But it is totally true that this is the first time and I. That I can ever remember where we had so many openings in so many high profile houses. But it's also incredibly. And I think it will be a very creative moment. Because if you talk to these designers, of course, they're very aware that they're all making their debuts in the next few weeks. So all eyes, not just on them, but on all of them. And I think they will all make each other better.

[D]

Who are you most keenly watching?

[C]

All of them. I mean, I think they all bring different points of views, some degrees of experience, some brand new, some less known, some known. But what I think is great about all of them is that they are very original thinkers. And I think that they will not be defined. They will respect, but they will not be like Chloe. They will respect but not be defined by their past. I think Jonathan Anderson at Dior is gonna be. Have an incredible show, an incredible run at Dior. I'm very, very excited to see Matthieu Blasi at Chanel. He was at Bottega before. And Jack and Lazaro who going to lie. So, I mean, those are just three. I mean, Sarah Burton, a woman at Givenchy, she worked for McQueen for so many years. Louise Trotter at Bottega, I mean, it's just a long, long list. And then there's the designers like Demna, that was at Balenciaga, has now gone to Gucci, and Pierpaolo, who was at Valentino, has now gone to Balenciaga. So it's, you know, it's. The carts have been shot, stakes and ladders everywhere.

[D]

My colleague Rebecca Mead recently profiled Jonathan Anderson is now, as you say, at Dior. And he told Rebecca that he prefers to think of fashion houses not as luxury bastions, but as cultural brands. That there's a. He says luxury is elitist and he wants to keep luxury at arm's length. He told her, how do you view luxury at this point? Is it something that you embrace? Is it something that.

[C]

Well, I hate that word, don't you?

[D]

Well, it really enters my thinking, but go ahead.

[C]

It doesn't mean anything. It seems like a sort of dated.

[D]

It sounds to my ear like expensive.

[C]

Yeah. And it feels dated to me. And something that. I think I like the idea of creativity. And what does that mean? And how you bring in a community in all kinds of different levels, whether it's couture or Runway or a pair of sneakers. You're investing in somebody's creativity and vision. And to me, that's much more interesting than the idea of luxury. I mean, I don't really even know what that word means. It's so overused. I think it's lost its heart in.

[D]

Some Ways it might be an illusion, but the economy is riding pretty high. And yet a lot of fashion houses are very anxious about the economy.

[C]

Well, there's many reasons for that. I mean, I think first of all, there's been some so much change that I think a lot of the normal customers are waiting. Cause they want to wait and see what the new designers are going to bring. They don't want to seem like they're behind or they're not in step with whatever direction a designer might be going. Or they were someone who liked what the old designer did and they're not sure yet about the new one. So there are lots of different reasons. But I also think that the industry has been very hard hit by the tariffs and all.

[D]

So Trump's tariffs are going to affect things.

[C]

Because people would move their businesses out of China and into India. And then you saw what happened in India. So it's hard to be able to plan long term. And also the fashion industry already has 12 and a half percent tariffs on a lot of what they produce. So to stack it again is going to make it even more difficult, particularly for the smaller businesses.

[D]

You have made Vogue a political magazine in many ways over the years. And you yourself are a political person. You've been involved in fundraising and more for Hillary Clinton and for the Democratic Party in general. Tell me about that decision.

[C]

I think my personal values are very important to me and I also have tried to be balanced in our coverage. And I also believe that what I believe many of our audiences do as well. So it's a tough time for Democrats. There's no question. And hopefully somebody will emerge in the not too distant future that will challenge our current administration.

[D]

Have you seen anything of that?

[C]

Well, I've been impressed by Governor Newsom. I think he's certainly making a stand and obviously I'm sure there'll be many other candidates that will emerge hopefully soon.

[D]

Hopefully soon. It seems pretty grim at the moment, though.

[C]

Well, we have time.

[B]

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[D]

There was a movie that you may have heard of called the Devil Wears Prada and at first and we didn't know each other very well when that came out, Conde Ness had a kind of different alignment than it does now. And I should say it's changed largely because of you and having editors meetings and the editors got to know each other a lot better than they used to, which is a gift. When that first came out, were you hurt by it, and then you seemed to embrace it in a certain way?

[C]

Well, I went to the premiere wearing Prada, completely having no idea what the film was going to be about. And I think that the fashion industry were very, very sweetly concerned for me about the film. That it was gonna paint me in some kind of difficult light.

[D]

But cartoonish.

[C]

Yes. Caricature.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

But first of all, it was Meryl Streep, which. Fantastic. And then I went to see the film and I found it highly enjoyable and very funny. So much. And I talk about it a lot and I say to her, well, it was really good for you. And you can imagine what she says back. But, you know, in the end, no, I can't.

[D]

What did she say back?

[C]

But no, I think, listen, it had a lot of humor to it. It had a lot of wit. It had Meryl Streep. I mean, it was Emily Blunt. I mean, they were all amazing. And in the end, I thought it was a fair shot.

[D]

At a certain point, celebrities came to the COVID of Vogue. Was that something you did with hesitation? You did it pretty early on. I think Madonna might have been one of the first.

[C]

One of the first, Yeah. I felt that times were changing, that time was different, and that our audiences, our readers, were looking at fashion not just through the lens of a model, as was primarily on the COVID before that. Although, of course, if you think back to the days of Mrs. Vreeland and others that they did, you know, they had people like Candice Berg and Chloe's.

[D]

Mother, or Clay, the editor of Vogue.

[C]

On Sex and the City, or Mia Farrow. I mean, it wasn't unheard of, but I think that we. We recognized a change. We saw a change. And Madonna, of all the many celebrities that we've had on the COVID of Vogue, she certainly loved and epitomized fashion and was fearless with it and had fun with it. And it just felt like the right time. And I remember being on this plane and sitting next to Straight laced, straight, wearing a suit, gentleman. And he asked me what I did, and I was telling him, and he said, well, Vogue means to me, Audrey Hepburn, Katharine Hepburn, never Madonna. And that made me think, time to change.

[D]

What are you most proud of having published at Vogue?

[C]

I couldn't possibly choose one piece or one story or one Cover, David, I think it was very. It was quite moving being in the meeting this morning talking to all my colleagues about how I felt about Chloe and what a great job that she was doing. And I think the thing I'm the most proud of is bringing in over so many years, different talent, writers, photographers, videographers, editors to Vogue. I mean, that to me, and I'm sure you feel to some degree the same way. It's about who you surround yourself with entirely. And in the end, that's by far the most important accomplishment to me.

[D]

Were you emotional at this meeting?

[C]

Well, I've been thinking about it for such a long time, but no, I was actually thrilled and excited and happy for Chloe and excited for myself to look at things in a different way.

[D]

Does it mean that you'll have more free time? I can't imagine Anna Wintour with free time.

[C]

Well, I think I'll have only two jobs now. Yes, two jobs. Two jobs. But I am remaining full, fully committed as theater and tennis advisor to Vogue. That's gonna be my next big chapter.

[D]

Okay, I'm holding you to that. Now, I think we're now ready for what we call the lightning round. Are you ready?

[C]

Yes, of course.

[D]

Okay. Who is the greatest fashion designer of your era?

[C]

As editor, David, I only look towards the future.

[D]

What was the most triumphant or influential fashion show of that era?

[C]

Ditto.

[D]

Most lamentable fashion trend of your era?

[C]

DayGlo.

[D]

Okay, true or false? Jeff Bezos was interested in buying Conde Nast.

[C]

Well, actually, I heard that he called you about that false.

[D]

Good turn. You are actually just as true or false. You are actually thrilled when assistants move at a glacial pace.

[C]

Nobody at Vogue moves at a glacial pace. Least of all my assistants.

[D]

This is the most important question of all. Anna, finally, I wore a decent shirt and an actual jacket today in deference to you and the occasion. But still, I think it's fair to say that I'm not known for my impeccable sense of style. Anna, is it hopeless? Where can I possibly begin?

[C]

David, I'm very touched that you wore a jacket, but I really like you in those New Yorker sweatshirts.

[D]

There I was, living up to the suit editorial standards of the late Cy Newhouse.

[C]

Thank you for having me, Anna.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

And that's it for the show. See you later. The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Cariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast head of global audio.

[B]

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[C]

From prx.