April Cover Star Doja Cat on Taxidermy, Touring, and Therapy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: April Cover Star Doja Cat on Taxidermy, Touring, and Therapy
Release Date: March 18, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle (Head of Editorial Content, Vogue U.S.), Liam Hess (Senior Lifestyle Editor, Vogue)
Guest: Doja Cat

---

Overview

In this lively and candid episode, Vogue editors Chloe Malle and Liam Hess sit down with April cover star Doja Cat to discuss her unique approach to home decor, her love of taxidermy, the exhilaration and exhaustion of touring, mental health, fashion at the Met Gala, and her evolving relationship with social media. Through humor, sincerity, and plenty of memorable anecdotes (plus a cameo from her cat, Axel), Doja Cat offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at her life, artistry, and inner world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Doja Cat’s Aesthetic Sensibilities and Home Decor

• Eclectic French Gothic Vibe: Doja describes her house as featuring a "weird, eclectic French gothic black iron thing," accented with various vintage pieces and taxidermy (03:08).
• Taxidermy Collection: “I got the ass of a bovine.” (Doja Cat, 03:52)
  • She admits to being a hoarder and details her most recent, unusual acquisition, acknowledging that it may be controversial online.
• Naming & Cat Companions: The episode features Doja's cats—most notably, Axel, a Maine coon polydactyl named in memory of her late cat Alex, and Ray, an oriental shorthair (11:17). Both names hold sentimental value.

On the Vogue Cover Shoot

• Team Vibes: The shoot was styled by Carlos Nazario and photographed by Willie Vanderperre in NYC, giving “an old icon vibe” (05:13).
• Favorite Moment: “It was beautiful to see and be part of. Carlos was fabulous. We just got along very quickly.” (Doja Cat, 05:55)
• Memorable Look: Hosts are particularly taken with “[t]he vermilion satin Givenchy trench coat... that beautiful blood red color” (B: 07:06–07:18). Doja loved the contrast of shooting in a less formal setting, which added depth to the glamour.

Touring Life and Self-Care

• Tour Burnout: "I'm burnt out. I'm tired." (Doja Cat, 08:22)
  • She explains that while touring is exhausting, her team ensures she has downtime between shows.
• Downtime Rituals: “I kind of just put on a heating blanket and play Fortnite or I watch Judy Justice.” (Doja Cat, 09:23)
• On-Stage Inspiration: Influenced by 80s punk icons, especially Nina Hagen. “Nina was a huge inspiration for me for this tour. She's otherworldly and has just given a lot to music and a lot to my mind.” (Doja Cat, 16:53)
• Favorite Tour Look: The Tokyo makeup and performance stand out to her as a particular moment of discovery (15:33).

Fashion Risk-Taking & The Met Gala

• Met Gala 2026 Plans: Working with Yves Saint Laurent but admits, “I have not a clue [about the look]” (32:27).
• Fearless Style: “When it comes to fashion, you're fearless.” (Hosts, 32:52)
  • Doja admits, “I will wear knives all over my body if that’s what looks good. And I need to take into account my mind when I’m wearing something.” (Doja Cat, 33:10)
• Met Regrets: Details a past Met Gala outfit, including an extremely heavy, beaded Oscar de la Renta dress with a diamond on her forehead, resulting in a “horrible, horrible ice pick headache” (36:44).
• Personal Style: Though bold publicly, her everyday closet is more understated—favoring brands like Proenza Schouler, Khaite, The Row, Phoebe Philo, Vince, and Bottega (38:31–39:15).

Openness Around Health and Wellbeing

• Lipedema Disclosure: Doja recently shared her self-diagnosis of lipedema on TikTok and explains the journey and body image challenges that came with it:
  • “I have little—my—I used to have, have or I still kind of have like little babies' faces in my knees.” (Doja Cat, 25:51)
  • On sharing: “I just felt like I had that little epiphany and then I posted the TikTok and... was surprised at how much it took off and how many people have it.” (27:25)
• Therapy for Self-Discovery: Regular therapy (twice weekly) helps her navigate the loneliness that can accompany fame.
  • “It’s incredibly lonely. I’m lonely. I want people to embrace me. I kinda live out far from everyone... It’s just hard making friends.” (Doja Cat, 42:37)

Social Media: Double-Edged Sword

• Digital Hygiene: Doja recently deleted Twitter for mental health but has begun “easing” back in.
  • “I think just deleting certain apps when you start to feel like, all right, this is starting to become a problem. That's been my hygiene.” (30:18)

Artistic Process and Upcoming Music

• V Album Creation: Doja describes V as an album born from a mix of 80s nostalgia and childhood influences—a “dreamcore,” liminal aesthetic rooted in memory and feeling more than true historical accuracy.
  • “It’s weird because the album does feel super 80s, but it really is kind of... wanting to understand the beginning of where I came from.” (Doja Cat, 18:15–20:58)
• New Projects?: No clear news but “an artist can’t do anything unless they do nothing... I need a break in order to cultivate something that is of substance.” (45:43)
• Favorite Live Songs: Loves performing “All Mine,” “Take Me Dancing,” and covering “I’m a Man.” (23:06)

Pop Culture & Wellness Habits

• Screen Preferences: Currently watches YouTube cosmology channel Astrum for “white noise,” and enjoys “Judy Justice” (Americas new Judge Judy) (09:32; 46:27).
• Reading & Listening: “I don't read and I wish I read. It's like the girl that I wish I was was the girl who did yoga and read books and goes to ballet.” (46:54)
  • Recently listening to "The Japanese House" and "Salt (SAULT)", and relaxation playlists on iTunes (47:51).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’m a nasty wench. I think a lot of people would agree with horrible witch and just a nasty little wench.” (Doja Cat on her Zoom name, 05:01)
• “Nina [Hagen] was a huge inspiration for me for this tour. She's otherworldly and has just given a lot to music and a lot to my mind.” (16:53)
• “I will wear knives all over my body if that’s what looks good.” (33:10)
• “It’s incredibly lonely. I’m lonely. I want people to embrace me... It’s just hard making friends.” (42:37)
• “An artist can’t do anything unless they do nothing. I need to do nothing in order to cultivate something that is of substance.” (45:43)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Home Decor & Taxidermy: 03:08–04:48
• Vogue Cover Shoot Reflections: 05:13–07:38
• Touring & Wellbeing: 08:22–09:32
• Pet Stories: 09:50–11:58
• Touring Looks & Inspiration: 13:42–16:53
• Album Creation & 80s Influence: 17:31–21:14
• Lipedema Disclosure: 23:44–27:42
• Digital Hygiene & Social Media: 28:12–30:51
• Met Gala & Fashion Fearlessness: 31:54–34:56
• Closet Staples & Personal Style: 38:16–40:50
• Therapy & Mental Health: 41:03–43:28
• Vulnerability & Sincerity: 44:00–45:15
• Upcoming Music Plans: 45:43–46:19
• What She’s Watching/Listening To: 46:27–48:28

---

This episode presents Doja Cat as both wildly creative and deeply relatable. Her openness about mental health and the realities of fame, plus irreverent humor, fearless style, and genuine warmth, make for an engaging and insightful listen.

Transcript

[A]

My goals for my closet are classic, timeless items I know I can come back to year after year. I want my items to be well made and stylish, but also comfortable and well priced. And no, that's not too much to ask. It's why I love Quince. Quince has versatile, quality pieces that make getting dressed a pleasure. Everything Quince makes is built to last, from the stitching to the fit to the fabrics. Because there's nothing worse than discovering your favorite tee is faded or flimsy. And they work directly with safe, ethical factories to cut out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup, just quality clothing. Now that spring is approaching, I'm reaching for my quince cotton cashmere Dolman sweater. It's lightweight, flattering and easy to dress up or down. It truly seems to go with everything right now. Go to quince.com runthrough for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com RunThrough for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com RunThrough

[B]

this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Tryitogressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This is the run through. I'm Chloe Mao.

[C]

And I'm Liam Hess, Senior lifestyle editor here at Vogue.

[B]

Today we have our incredible cover star, a true superstar among us, Doja Cat. She is Vogue's April cover and she is touring for her album V right now. She's heading to Rwanda this week.

[C]

And she's also on the Met Gala host committee this year and co hosting our upcoming Vogue vintage market.

[B]

And we got to speak to Doja about her mental health journey. She does therapy twice a week. Very exciting. What she's watching. Oh, it was such a thrill to meet her beautiful Maine coon cat, Axel.

[C]

Very handsome boy.

[B]

So I hope everyone enjoys our conversation with the incredibly talented Doja Cat.

[D]

Oh my God. I'm on a podcast. Yay.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

Hi. Podcast. Wait, hold on. I have to close.

[B]

Where are you? I love the forsythia behind you.

[D]

I am in my kitchen, in my dining room.

[B]

Excellent. What are these Cool chairs.

[C]

Yeah, they're super cool.

[D]

I forgot the name of the guy, but I found them on first sibs and they're like super rare and I had to have them because I'm a hoarder.

[B]

Wow. How many do you have?

[D]

One, two, three, four. I think eight.

[B]

Okay, tell us the rest of your, like, house decoration process. Like, are you doing this yourself late at night on first dibs?

[D]

Are you.

[B]

Do you enjoy it? Are you doing it piece by piece?

[D]

Yeah, I go piece by piece. But I'm also very impatient and I think, like, when I first got in here, I just wanted, like, it to feel like home. And so there was a point where I got stuff and then I had to resell a lot of stuff and it wasn't right. And so I, I went with the house because the house has a lot of black iron on it already, like the door trimmings and everything. And so I just went with like this kind of weird, eclectic French gothic black iron thing. And I have a lot of old stuff in here. Lots of taxidermy and things like that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I've heard about this today for the first time. I also love taxidermy. I want to know what's your most recent taxidermic purchase?

[D]

My most recent taxidermic purchase or acquisition? It was. It's. People aren't going to like this. I think I. I need to learn to not really care what the Internet thinks at this moment. But I got the. But of. Oh, I care too much. I care too much what people think. I got the ass of a. Of a bovine. Oh.

[C]

Oh. Why does one acquire the ass of a bovine?

[D]

Yeah, I actually don't know. It was at a place with asses of bovines.

[B]

Wow. It doesn't sound like it's day roll in Paris.

[D]

Yeah, no, it's. It's kind of almost safari a little bit too. And I have a lot of like cowhide rugs in like, you know, zebra, tiger, you know, things like that.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

Lots of, lots of animals here.

[B]

Well, doa. Welcome to the run through, by the way. We are so excited to have you. And I'm also delighted by your Zoom name, which is nasty Wench. Can you tell us about that?

[D]

Well, I'm a nasty wench. I think a lot of people would agree with horrible witch and just a nasty little wench.

[B]

We are very excited because when this episode airs, your Vogue cover will have just been released. We are recording this a few days beforehand, but it will be Wednesday, March 18, and it is so fantastic. I love this cover and the whole shoot so much. I want to hear about your experience of the shoot, but it was shot in New York City with Carlos Nazario styling it and Willie Vanderpeer photographing it. And it's this very glamorous, sort of old icon vibe that I just think that they did such a great job with. But tell me, what was the most surprising thing about the shoot for you? What was the most fun part of the shoot?

[D]

Most surprising and fun part? I think, like, I think it was just working with new people. I think I'm always really curious as to, like, how different people work together. And it's fun to just get to know new people and get to know them in an environment that they thrive in, that they kind of. You know what I mean? Like, that's. Everybody was just in their own element that day, and I think it was beautiful to see and be part of. And Carlos was fabulous. He's. He's very. He's very easy to work with. Yeah, I think we. We just got along very quickly. And I mean, right. Right. Right off the bat.

[B]

I mean, what was your favorite look that you wore?

[D]

My favorite look? I wish I could tell you, because the thing is, you take these pictures, and even you leave the set, and then it's months later and you don't remember a day.

[B]

Well, I'll tell you my favorite look, which was the vermilion satin Givenchy trench coat that you did.

[D]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

It's like this beautiful blood red color, and you did it. Two versions, one with, like, a Marilyn wig and one without. And we all gasped when we saw those photos come in.

[D]

I love that one. That one was really, really stunning. And that was different because we shot off the set essentially, like, it was kind of just in the corner of the room, and I thought that felt really nice. Like, juxtaposed with the. With the very formal look and then the sort of dingy ness of the room. And I thought that was really cool.

[C]

And, of course, this isn't the first time we're meeting. I was very honored to be asked by Chloe to write this story, and also very lucky to head down under in December and spend a couple of days with Doja and her team as she was touring there in Sydney. I went to see the first night. Well, I went both nights to see the show, but the first night, it was. The energy was just crazy. It was sold out. And I can't believe that you're still going. To me, it feels like eons ago, but that was Just the beginning for you. You're touring all the way through till this December. How are you feeling right now at this stage of the V World tour?

[D]

I'm burnt out. I'm tired. I have gotten some time to myself at home and it's been really, really nice. But I think the leading up to is one of the hardest parts because it's, I think that's just anxiety in a nutshell, is sort of thinking about the future, overthinking the future. So it's nerve wracking and I'm tired and I can't wait to be out on the stage. But it's just the process getting to right. So I'm trying to, you know, take it easy. And it's not, it's not going to be. The thing is, it's not going to be too much because I, my management and everyone, my team just understands like that I need that time in between shows. So, um, it's not, it's not so back to back and relentless as maybe one would think.

[B]

What does the downtime look like for you? Like, are you on the couch watching Real Housewives?

[D]

Downtime for me is I, I kind of just put on a heating blanket and play Fortnite or I watch Judy Justice.

[B]

Ooh, I don't know about Judy Justice.

[D]

It's, it's the new Judge Judy.

[B]

Oh, my God. I didn't know there was a new Judge Judy.

[D]

Yeah, it's so good.

[B]

Oh, my God. No, I love Judge Judy. So I'm extremely excited about this.

[D]

She's fabulous. She's so sharp.

[C]

Every time. I've spoken to you at home as well. You've been, you've been with your cats, you've been tending to your kittens. I think last time one of them was sick. Is he doing any better now?

[D]

Yeah, he so. Oh, who was sick?

[C]

I think he ate a cookie. You said he was like a real cookie fiend.

[D]

Okay. Yeah. So. So I have a baby and he's a Maine coon polydactyl. And he had a bite, maybe half actually of a brownie.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

The chocolate, thankfully was good quality. This was at night. So I was like, oh, my God, what vet is gonna answer the phone? Like, there's just no way. But there was an instant, like, response from this online sort of vet thing. You can like call someone, they'll pick up the phone at like 11. I honestly, I don't know if it's legit, but it felt legit enough for me to have a peace of mind. I think it was I think that it was legit, but I called them. They were like, what kind of chocolate was it? And because it wasn't like super processed, it was like eggs, flour and chocolate. That was it.

[B]

Fascinating. That chocolate quality makes a difference.

[D]

Yeah. Like if it's fake chocolate, like really crappy candy, like, that's usually what can make the cats really and dogs really sick. But thankfully he didn't have enough to get sick. And he's just also. Here he comes.

[B]

What a handsome boy.

[D]

Wait, get. Do you see him?

[B]

I see his beautiful tail. Oh, gorgeous. What? What? Can you go through your. Your cat names?

[D]

Yeah. So his name's Axel. He's named after my last cat who passed away in July of last year. His name's Alex. So I swapped the. The letters around and then I have an adult named Ray. Oh, excellent. My aunt's name was Ray who passed away. But he just looks like a Ray to me. I don't know what, what made me.

[B]

Is he also a Maine coon? I love Maine coons.

[D]

He is an oriental shorthair.

[B]

The run through will be back with Doja Cat after the break.

[D]

In a time when the United States military is being sent into American cities, when civilians and soldiers are being pitted

[A]

against each other, it's strange that we've never dressed more alike. We all wear performance clothes.

[D]

We all wear outdoor clothes, whether or not we're outside civilians and soldiers. I'm Avery Trufelman. I make a podcast about clothing called Articles of Interest. And in this new new season, I trace the interwoven histories of the military and the outdoor industry and how they built each other. Find articles of interest wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

And the season is called Gear.

[E]

Okay, guys, it's finally spring. I'm so excited. I've been wearing my Penny Lane coat all winter. And while I do love it, I am so ready to be wearing layers and more fun outfits this season. I think Macy's is the perfect place to find all of my spring wardrobe essentials. They have great brands from Steve Madden and BCBG where I could probably find some of those fun, sheer layers I'm looking for. And I've really been into loose fitting jeans, so I'm going to definitely take a look at what Macy's has in store there too. I know a lot of people are into barrel cut. I'm more into a relaxed fit jean, so I definitely will check that out at Macy's. I'm so ready to make the switch to spring and so glad that Macy's is here for it.

[B]

I want to know about what you're wearing on your V tour because I thought it was very interesting that you're wearing one look per evening. Was that a decision from the beginning? Was that something that was about, like, making a statement every night, or was it more logistics based?

[D]

I think it's. It's logistics based, but it's also like. I mean, people are there to see me, and I. I don't want to get so lost in the. I love bits and things that are, you know, like little cute, fun, gimmicky little things and stunts and things like that. But I think for this, I mostly just wanted to own the stage, and I wanted to know what it felt like to own a stage and be kind of more at one and not have to be caught up in the fashion of it all. So we went really hard with just one outfit, and, you know, it's fun every night. We don't really know what we're gonna do. Some stuff is custom. Yeah, I mean, some stuff is custom, but I love to take the custom and then, like, scramble it with the other things. And we've launched it. Lots of underwear, lots of bras, lots of gloves, hats, and silly things to play with. And so that's usually. It was like, a mania that I wanted to touch on in my. In my mind.

[B]

So do you already know what you're going to be wearing next week?

[D]

No, I. I have no idea. But you know what? I have somewhat of an idea just because there. There's custom that I love through and through, but I'm looking at sketches at the moment, and it's not. It's like I. I don't know exactly what it looks like. I just see the sketches and I go, I want to wear that head to toe. I'm not changing anything. But we'll see once I see it.

[B]

Is there a favorite look of the tour so far?

[D]

My favorite look of the tour. I mean, I love Japan. I think that when it comes to makeup, like, I'm really, really into makeup. Maybe even even into makeup more than fashion. But I think, yeah, the makeup for that was just. It was another world for me. I feel like a door opened that night when it came to something about Tokyo makes me just want to discover different parts of myself. And that that night was. Was definitely one of those moments.

[C]

And speaking of owning the stage. Yeah. As I mentioned, I was lucky enough to see you two nights in a row, and it was pretty extraordinary. I mean, you barely paused to breathe. It was like you were just going song after Song after song. And you're such a powerful performer and, you know, and so present. And it was really astonishing to witness. But I mean, are there any. What kind of like, headspace are you in when you're on stage? Are there any kind of performers you like to channel, like, especially on this tour, given all of the sort of 80s references?

[D]

Yeah, I think that. I think about certain things that I've seen that I don't. I don't know. I know Nina Hagen is like a massive inspiration to me.

[C]

And tell. If someone's not familiar with Nina Hagen, how would you sort of give them a quick debrief?

[D]

She's the queen of punk, I think. Like, when I think punk, I think Vivienne Westwood, I think Nina Hagen, and I think a little bit Joan Jett. A little bit of Joan Jett. Just a little bit, like, I just think. I think. Yeah, that was a really. Nina was a huge inspiration for me for this tour. She's otherworldly and has just given a lot to music and a lot to my mind.

[C]

And tell us a little bit more about V as a record as well, because obviously it came sort of hot on the heels of Scarlet, which was a much more sort of rap focused album. It maybe had more of an aggressive sound. And then with V, you know, it's more pop leaning. And I know we spoke a little bit about Scarlet almost being something that you had to get out of your system a little bit. And yeah, I mean, and V, it seems like an album that was made with. It's an album about romance. It feels like you were in a much sort of happier, more grounded place while you were making it. And yeah, just give us the backstory, I suppose, on how the album came.

[D]

To be sure, I. I remember I was doing a lot of different R and B songs before I got into the whole V spiel. Like, I didn't really know what I wanted to do at first, but I knew that I wanted to talk about love and my relationships. And I was in a relationship that I. I think I learned a lot from about myself and also just how people work. And that was the baseline, was the. Was the meaning of it. But the. The music aspect only came in about, like, man, it took like, months to get to a point of being like, this is. I want to do something that feels 80s, because I know really nothing of the 80s. There's things I know about it, but I'm a 90s baby. I was born in 95 and I, like, wanted this feeling of nostalgia that isn't even Honestly, based in the 80s, it's based in like my childhood. But it's, when I describe this, I'm usually talking about like how when we were kids in the 90s, you saw a lot of like, of the entail, like the trail off of like 80s architecture, 80s fashion, you know, 80s music. Because we were going into a new era in the 90s. It's different from the 80s, obviously, but there's a lot of things like when I was in school, I would, you know, play with old toys that were probably from the 80s, things that, you know, things like that and seeing adults and how the way adults dressed. Like, I was really inspired by that. And also the music, like, the music was still huge from the 80s in the 90s. Artists from the 80s had their kind of like, they had their, their glow up in the 90s in a way. It's like they were figuring out who they were in the 80s and then they, they adapted to the 90s in a different way. So it's, it's weird because the album does feel super 80s, but it really is kind of this, you know, wanting to understand the beginning of where I came from. And there's this sort of like the kids, like, calling it a core, but there's like a, a core. Like, it's like, man, what is it sort of, it's kind of related to dreamcore. It's kind of related.

[B]

What is Dreamcore?

[D]

Dreamcore is, it's like a sub genre of aesthetic that is rooted in our dreams as children.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[D]

That we don't really remember till we see it in an image in reality. It's like they'll show you like a, a grainy or a kind of washed out image of like a house on a hill that's alone. And it's like there's a, there's something very lonely about it. And I, I touched on this a little bit. It's like liminal. So liminal space is like this sort of subcategory of an aesthetic. And it, it, that's kind of what it is. It's like that, what we remember as maybe millennials or maybe, I think some Gen Z maybe kind of, kind of feel that way too. But it's, I wanted to sort of touch that in a way in pockets in my album. And then there's some moments that are super on the nose 80s, like really. But I, I, I know a lot of artists have done the 80s in different ways, but the way I wanted to do it was sort of in a tacky way, like I wanted to. I wanted that 80s tack. I wanted that 80s. Like sex and the 80s, cocaine and the 80s. Like, just everything that felt. Felt kind of whimsical and silly in a way. Because the 80s was all about discovery of. Of different synths and people were making, you know, synthesizers that were like, I'm rambling a little bit, but people were making, you know, new equipment and. And discovering new ways to do makeup. Like, makeup was crazy in the 80s. You compare it to the 50s, it's just like bizarre. It really is. And so I wanted to really touch that. I wanted to be there.

[B]

What was your favorite song to perform on tour? Was. Is there like one that every night

[D]

you're like, oh, yes, my favorite song. It's so weird. I think about, you know, I love doing all mine because it's so different from everything else. It's like an accent song in a way, off the project. And I think I. Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite. But Take Me Dancing is another one that I'm like, I just. I love to be able to get out all my energy on that. But there's so many that I love that I love doing. Amen. There's a section of Amen and I'm doing a cover of I'm a Man.

[B]

I want to ask you doja about your recent video where you talked about having lipedema. How did you decide to share that?

[D]

Yeah, so I cannot sleep at the moment because of all of the, like, build up to tor. I'm. It's so weird because I'm tired, but I'm not. I don't know. I just can't sleep. So I'm up at 1am Having thoughts.

[B]

Okay. What's your sleep hygiene process? Like, what helps you sleep?

[D]

I'll take two Benadryl if I'm panicking.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

If I'm like, I need to be up tomorrow, do I need to go to sleep? I'll take like two Benadryl or one.

[B]

And you don't have a Benadryl hangover.

[D]

I do. I do. Okay. I end up having it. But the thing is, when we start, like, usually if I have to be up, it'll be. I just deal with it.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But have like a show at night. So, like, I don't mind having the hangover in the morning.

[B]

Got it.

[D]

You know what I mean? So what was the. Oh, yeah, the lipedema thing? So I was just up and I was like, I. I saw a surgeon I got recommended something on YouTube about lipedema and a Surgeon was talking about it.

[B]

Can you tell people what it is for those who don't know?

[D]

So lipedema is a disease that is usually caused by hereditary stuff. It's passed down and it, it occurs mostly in women and it happens on the lower half of the body typically. But a lot of people get it in their arms as well. But it's a stubborn fat that with any type of working out or eating, it doesn't matter what you do, that fat is going to stay there. And there are different stages where the fat can sort of migrate and grow and take a. Take this form that's kind of like a column like shape in the legs. So instead of having sort of the normal curve to the leg, the fat will take on a look of almost like you have the legs of a baby.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

So you can have really like big knees with like kind of a baby face knee is what I call it. Like I have little. My. I used to have, have or I still kind of have like little babies faces in my knees. But it was pretty bad in my early, in my early 20s. And it, it can be a problem because there's other social things that come into play with, with lipedema. Like when I was much younger I had a lot of people like unwanted attention because I had a really big butt. And so my butt was so big that it was just kind of like every morning going to middle school, going to school it would be like, oh, her butt is like people just like pointing and walking and, and, and people would be like, wow, your body's so crazy. You're. This is incredible. Like how is your waist so small and your butt so big? And meanwhile I'm like why is my waist so small and my butt is so big? Like I, I couldn't like I just didn't want that attention on me and it made me extremely uncomfortable and self conscious and I just wasn't comfortable with it for a long time. And so I saw those pictures of different people with different stages of lipedema and I came to a conclusion. I self diagnosed. We love that. I am stage two. I am stage two. I am. Yeah, I have lipedema. So I.

[B]

Have you since talked to someone besides yourself about it?

[D]

No, you know, not really. I haven't really talked to anybody in the last couple of days about it. I just felt like I had that little epiphany and then I posted the TikTok and then I was surprised at how much it took off and how many people have it.

[C]

And in terms of your decision to, like, share that on social media. I mean, it's something that we, I think, talked about quite a lot was your relationship with social media. And it's obviously, you know, been such a huge part of your career, a huge part of your success. It's sort of, like, fueled your creativity at times. At other times, it's been maybe, like, more of a hindrance than a help. Where are you at with that right now? I know that when we first spoke, you were deleting Twitter off your phone, and I don't think you've been back on it since, so.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Yeah, no, I'm back on. I deleted Twitter. I just kept myself away from it. Cause I remember in the beginning of Tor, I was obviously, like, panicking. I was like, oh, my God, this is the beginning of my tour. So I'm in Australia and. Or it wasn't the beginning. It was just the beginning of that Australian leg. Oh, no, it was. It was. It was. So I was like, all really, really on edge. And I remember I, like, went off on Twitter and I was like, I'm only doing this because I am incredibly, like, either insecure or just not in the headspace to. I think I was like, who's perceiving me? And that was sort of where. Where that was like, all right, I need to just get off Twitter. That's all I need to do. So, yeah, I deleted it. But then I. I've been on Twitter in the last couple of weeks, for sure. I'm back.

[C]

Easing himself back in.

[B]

What's your digital hygiene? Because I read. I listened on a podcast that you said that you hate looking at your phone first thing in the morning when you're in bed.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you off that?

[D]

No, I look at my phone. I don't really. The alarm goes off, so I'm kind of repelled from it, just from that, right off the bat. So that. That works. A good morning for me is 8:30, and I wake up and the. Whatever. The alarm goes off. I shut it up and I go brush my teeth and I go do other things that I need to do with my life.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But a bad morning for me as I open up my phone and I'm thinking about the day before, and I'm like, what did I do on TikTok? What did I do? What are people saying? So there's that, you know, do you brick your phone? What's a. What's bricking?

[B]

This could be good for you. I don't do it, but I am sort of tempted.

[D]

I know what you're talking about.

[B]

It's like a physical thing that you put on your phone and it locks it.

[D]

Oh, wait, I don't know what you're talking about. Right, Liam.

[C]

Or you put it somewhere. You put it somewhere in your house.

[B]

Oh, right. I don't know what I'm talking about.

[D]

I don't need to do that. I don't. I don't. I just. I get it. And I think it's really, really smart because our phones are, are taking a toll on our mental health, and it's a new thing. And humans have not adapted to rectangles with pictures coming out of them that are moving. So I think just deleting certain apps when you start to feel like, all right, this is starting to become a problem. That's been my, my hygiene.

[B]

The run through will be back with Doja Cat after the break.

[E]

How Long Gone is a bicoastal elite podcast from old friends and podcast professionals Chris Black and Jason Stewart. The duo deliver their takes on pop culture, fashion, music, and more in three episodes a week with guests like Bravo's Andy Cohen, Liz Phair, and David Cross. New to the How Long Gone universe is How Long Gone Today, a new digital video series featuring in studio conversations, guest interviews, musical performances, and additional bonus segments. Find it today on YouTube and Spotify video. Listen to How Long Gone the podcast every Monday, Wednesday and Friday on the Talkhouse Podcast Network, and subscribe to How Long Gone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

One of my favorite parts about working on the story was learning about how much you love fashion and also speaking to designers that you've worked with very closely over the years about your kind of intuition for fashion and your wonderful stylist Brett as well. And you're on the host committee for the Met Gala this year, which is super exciting. We can't wait to see what you're going to wear and have you started? I'm presuming some of those conversations already. How are you thinking about the theme? Are there any sort of, like, teasers or anything that you can give us at this stage?

[D]

Yeah, I have not a clue. I don't know what's going on other than I'm working with Yves Saint Laurent and I'm so excited about that. I don't know what we're doing as far as, like, the feedback, physical feeling of it. But yeah, I'm just excited to work with them and I, I always loved them and I love them more and more every day.

[C]

The word that kept coming up when I was speaking to Brett and to all of these designers was that you're. When it comes to fashion, you're fearless, and you're certainly, like, not afraid to take a risk. And have you always been like that since you were a kid? Have you always had that sort of mindset when it comes to getting dressed in the morning?

[D]

Unfortunately, yes, I have. So, I mean, I. I've gotten a lot of flack since I was in middle school, I think, even. And I remember my mom told me when I was a baby that when she tried to dress me, I would. I was like, you cannot dress me. I'm dressing myself. Wow. So there's. There was that, and I definitely suffered from it minorly, but I. It's. It's been. I don't even want to call it a journey. It's not that it's a. It's. It's a little bit of a curse, but good things come of it, and that's all that really matters. I think that I'm. I'm learning, and I. Yeah, I just. You know, I think we see things, and there's so many different moving parts, like Brett and I, things that we want to materialize, and then, you know, there's so many different parts that come into play with it. And everything I've done with Met Gala, I. I've loved. But as far as, like, certain things, like comfortability, that's something I'm trying to. To. To learn, because it's weird. It's like some people just have an inclination to be like, I don't want to wear that because it hurts. I don't have that. I will wear knives all over my body if that's. If it looks good. And I need to take into account my. My mind when I'm wearing something. How do I feel in it, physically? And it's. Yeah, I think. I think sometimes it's okay to be uncomfortable. Sometimes it's great to be uncomfortable. Sometimes it's better to be a lot more comfortable.

[B]

Everyone always has a crazy first Met story or a met regret.

[D]

Oh, 100%. You want one right now?

[B]

Let's hear your Met regret.

[D]

I wore a. Which I wish Brett maybe could enlighten me on what this. How many carrots this damn thing was. But it was a huge diamond, and I had it. I think it was. Oh, I think it was Masika. I think it was. I don't know, but I wore it on my forehead, and this was the cat look. And I remember when I wore that, I had a hood that had the ears attached to it. This is Oscar de la Renta. And the hood was attached to a dress. It was all one piece. And the dress was covered in like thousands, tens of thousands, what I think of beads. And the beads weigh a certain amount after a while, plus the fabric. You've got lining, you've got the. You got all these things going on that make the dress so heavy. And so now I have the beads, which are now resting across the skin of my forehead. And then I have the necklace that we put under the hood.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

That's going across my forehead in a V shape down the middle of my face. And so the metal that was between the hood and my skin of the necklace was pressing down and making all this pressure. And at first you're like, oh, this is fabulous. Look at this. I feel fine. It's a little tight, but that's okay when it comes to the head. And I know this with wigs, but I didn't take this to into account that night. It's just so sensitive. And I, over time had like a. Can I cuss? I don't know if I can go.

[A]

Yeah, go for it.

[D]

I had a horrible, horrible ice pick headache. Just like all this pressure holding this dress. My forehead and all the veins and that that run throughout the head were just supporting all of those beads. Thousands and tens of thousands of beads between these metal going.

[B]

It's just this sounds like wearing knives.

[D]

It was it. It was a little. Yeah, Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

Wow. When the shows are happening, like, we just all got back from Fashion Month, Are you looking at the collections? Is that something that's exciting to you? Are you letting your stylist Brett bring

[D]

that to you during Fashion Week? Yeah, I think, like, the only time that I'm looking really, is if I am there. Right. So if I'm involved in it in some way, I'll be like, at a show and I'm seeing everything. But there's also. It's like, not. I can't avoid it because of who I am. If I'm on TikTok or Instagram, it's getting recommended to me because I love fashion. So it's going to come up. Even if you don't like fashion, it's going to come up because it's huge. So I. I do see things, and if I'm really interested in something, I go to my favorite brands, which I have, like, my four favorite, and I kind of check up on them, but I don't really look into other brands that are Popping during. During fashion week usually.

[C]

And I remember being sort of surprised by what those four brands were just because they're so different to like, the looks that you're wearing on stage. And what I think of in terms of your red carpet style, you know, I think you were saying some of your. Will you tell us, what are your. What are your favorite brands?

[D]

Well, they're my safety net because that's what I want to look like if I don't want to be seen.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And I want to also feel chic, right, Because I'm always going out of my way and looking insane on stage. But I love Proenza Schooler and I love Kate. I love Thoreau. I love. Who is she? Phoebe Philo as well. Who is she? So those are like my four. Those are my four girls that I cannot get enough of. I love Vince as well. And if I had to. More kooky. If I had to get a little more kooky. I love. I like Bottega. I like. I'll leave it at Bottega.

[C]

What are the sort of holy grail items in your closet right now? What are you wearing every day on repeat?

[D]

I love. And you know what? Because it's hot. This only I change by season. So if something. It's hot outside and it's sunny, I don't want to wear the colors that I wear during winter, which is usually like navy and gray and white and cream and black. And I'll do like a white T shirt, black jeans, nice belt from the row. And then I'll do a sick boot, like a nasty little, little leather black boot. That's super. And I'm boring. And I need to be boring because I can't. I cannot live. My job can't be my life. My job can be my job. My career can be my career. I need a separation between the two. So I'm very like understated when I'm. When I'm dressing every day. But you're looking at me and I'm in a bright mint green. I did this for you. I love it.

[B]

Tell us about this.

[D]

Oh, this is sleeper. Oh, yeah, they're cute. That's when I'm feeling cutesy. This is spring for me.

[B]

It is. It's giving spring. It's a like. How would you describe this? It's like cartoon grass green. And it's a linen, long sleeved. Oh, this is beautiful dance.

[C]

It's a big, big kind of peasant sleeve.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. I love sleeper. I love sleeper for when it's getting a Little more springy and happy outside.

[B]

I do want to talk about. I was very excited that you go to therapy twice a week. Very pro therapy. I listen on a podcast that you said that you go to learn more about yourself. What have you learned about yourself recently in therapy?

[D]

I have learned without oversharing, obviously. I think. I think in a nutshell, I can't tell you recently, but I can tell you in a nutshell, I just. I want to be around people and I don't like to be lonely. My. My job is very lonely and it comes with being around people who you love. But to be fair, I mean, you are. You are employing these people. It doesn't mean they love you any less, doesn't mean that you love them any less. It just means that it's. It. There is a barrier. And it. That is something that's really hard to come to terms with in certain moments when, I mean, I. I had always had an issue with. Not always. I think when I was much younger, like a little girl, I was. I had friends and they'd come over and I'd hang out with my friends. We go to Universal Studios, blah, blah, blah. But like, hey, don't eat that. What's he eating? He's eating my willows. I'm so glad I asked. Pause. So. So he's not scared of anything. I'm like the least scary person on the planet to him.

[E]

So

[D]

it's incredibly lonely. I'm lonely. I want people to embrace me. I kind of live out in a. I live out in sort of far from everyone. I don't think anybody ever really wants to come to my house because it. So far. But it's also just hard making friends. I don't want to have friends in the industry, so I don't. Sometimes I try. Sometimes I'm like, well, why wouldn't I? I mean, like, I can relate to them, but I. I just. It's something that I'm. I'm going to struggle with and I've gotta. I gotta figure it out. I don't think it'll ever be fully figured out, but it's just something that I, you know, I gotta understand better in order to change things.

[B]

Do you? I like that you said that you try to do one thing a day that scares you. What did you do today that was scary?

[D]

I didn't do it again.

[B]

Oh, what's it gonna be?

[D]

I have no idea. But I know the one thing. It's like, it's usually with boys and I talk about. I talk about men. With my therapist a lot. And I think, like, I have a really big trust issue with. With guys and. Sorry. I kind of look.

[B]

Sorry.

[D]

My cat is playing with my assistant's hair. And it's amazing. Men. Like, I just, you know, it's like, even with people, I think it honestly goes for. For everyone. But being vulnerable with certain people, like, I tried to do it on TikTok recently and be sincere. I think sincerity is really hard for me at certain moments, and my fans can attest to that. Like, I think a lot of people have witnessed me in moments where I'm not being sincere. And I think only does really good things for me when I can be. When I can. I can express myself in all honesty. And for the most part, I mean, I can be honest, but I'm not always. I just am. Not always. Because in the moment, like, knee jerk, I just. I want to be safe. And the way I've learned to be safe is to not be honest and not be forthcoming. And so it's something that I really value, and I'm really excited to. To incorporate that into my life.

[C]

And before we wrap things up as well, I wanted to ask. We've spoken about the album, we've spoken about the tour, and you also sort of spoke to me a little about the next project that you're working on, which it still seems. It sounded to me like it hasn't quite assumed its final form yet, whether it's going to be a deluxe V or an ep. But is there anything that you can sort of tease or reveal about that at this stage?

[D]

I want to, but I think that it's hard. I think it's a little hard at the moment because I'm just. I'm focusing a lot on everything else. And so I. I do want to put out music soon. At the moment, I know that I need a break. Like I said, I'm. I'm tired. And an artist can't do anything unless they do nothing. And I do, at some point, very soon, need to do nothing in order to cultivate something that is of substance. But, yeah, I mean, that's your non answer for you.

[B]

I like that non answer. It was deft. Doja. I want to know what are you watching right now? Reading, Listening to.

[D]

I am watching. There's a channel on YouTube called Astrum. And now for me, it's just white noise. At first, I was really interested in the universe, but I feel like I've heard everything and watched every video, but I watch a lot of cosmology and a Lot of space stuff.

[B]

Interesting.

[D]

So I'm really, really into that.

[B]

What else are you reading? Anything?

[D]

I don't read and I wish I read.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

It's like the girl that I wish I was was the girl who did yoga and read books and goes to ballet. Oh, my God. And goes with ballet.

[B]

Are you listening to anything right now?

[D]

I am listening to meditation sounds on it. Wow.

[B]

What's your meditation app?

[D]

I. I don't use a meditation app, but it's just meditation. It's not even a guided. It's just. It's just music. So I'll go on itunes and there's one, there's a spa like playlist, and there's a meditation playlist, and I play either that or the other. It's really hard to listen to music right now. I don't know why I need to get to the bottom of it. Hopefully going to Africa will inspire something. Because I have actually today, as of today, wanted to listen to more of the Japanese house, weirdly enough.

[B]

Oh, okay. So.

[D]

So I was listening to that today. I was listening to Hilary Duff's new music today, and I was comparing the two and I was like, oh, my gosh, this feels like the same world. And I. I don't know. I kind of like that sound. Listening to salt a little bit today.

[B]

What's salt?

[D]

Salt is S, A U L T. And it's classical. It's a classical electronic, classical kind of music. I don't know if it's so much electronic, but it is a. Like a classical ensembles.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

All right.

[B]

Liam said it's genre bending.

[D]

Okay. We love to bend

[B]

doja. Thank you so much for joining us. We love seeing you with your beautiful sunny tree in the background and make some quats lime sleeper.

[D]

All right. And hold on one second. I got something for you. Thank you. He also says.

[B]

Oh, wait, I need to take a picture.

[D]

Thank you for being.

[B]

Oh, is this Axel?

[D]

This is Axel.

[B]

What a handsome boy.

[C]

Handsome.

[B]

Oh, gorgeous.

[D]

Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it.

[B]

That's it for the run through. See you next week. The run through is produced by chelsea daniel, alex depalma and alex john burns. It's engineered by pran bandy and james yost. It is mixed by mike kutchman.

[D]

From prx.