Eva Victor Talks 'Sorry, Baby' Directorial Debut, Cats, and More

Summary

Podcast Summary: Eva Victor Talks 'Sorry, Baby' Directorial Debut, Cats, and More

Introduction to the Episode In this engaging episode of The Run-Through with Vogue, hosts Chioma Nnadi, head of British Vogue, and Chloe Mao, editor of Vogue.com, delve into a variety of topics ranging from personal anecdotes to in-depth conversations with rising creative talents. Released on July 24, 2025, this episode features a compelling interview with Eva Victor, discussing her directorial debut, the intricacies of her film Sorry, Baby, and her personal inspirations.

Hosts' Personal Updates and Fashion Chats The episode kicks off with a light-hearted conversation between Chioma and Chloe about their eyewear choices. Chioma shares her reluctance to embrace glasses:

"It's just aging, guys. It's not dignified." [00:27]

Chloe compliments Chioma's aviator-style, rose gold frames, leading to a playful exchange about the practicality and style of reading glasses in various settings like dark restaurants.

Recent Events and Personal Experiences The hosts transition into discussing recent events and personal experiences. Chioma highlights Charli XCX's chic marriage to drummer George Daniel at Hackney Town Hall, praising her choice of a daisy bouquet:

"I love wildflowers. So for me, that was like a perfect touch." [04:08]

Chloe shares her excitement about attending the WNBA All Stars game, noting the growing investment in women's sports and the vibrant fashion on display:

"It's been exciting to see and to watch." [08:13]

Chioma also recounts attending Kendrick Lamar and SZA's record-breaking tour, describing the electrifying atmosphere of the concert:

"There's like a mosh pit basically erupted when Not Like Us came on." [09:46]

Behind the Scenes: Chloe's Vogue Cover Shoot Chloe discusses her recent cover shoot in Jackson Hole, emphasizing the old-school Vogue aesthetic and the picturesque setting:

"The landscape is one of the most spectacular places I've ever seen." [10:02]

She details the camaraderie with her colleagues and the enjoyable moments spent at the Million Dollar Cowboy Bar, capturing the essence of blending work with leisure.

Upcoming Vacations and Travel Plans The conversation shifts to their upcoming vacations, with Chioma planning a trip to Greece and Venice to visit family and potentially meet Fran Francesca Ragazzi of Italian Vogue:

"Everything's close, darling. Everything's close." [12:35]

Chloe reveals her plans to visit southwest France with family and friends, highlighting her children's excitement about local magazines and toys:

"It's an obsession of my children." [12:26]

In-Depth Interview with Eva Victor The highlight of the episode is the interview with Eva Victor, an emerging director making waves with her debut film Sorry, Baby. Eva discusses her film's themes of healing, friendship, and navigating personal struggles:

"Sorry, Baby is a movie about a person trying to heal and the best friendship that saves this person's life." [20:54]

She elaborates on the intimate and personal nature of the film, shot primarily in a secluded cabin in Ipswich to evoke a cozy yet tense atmosphere:

"We shot on this property called Appleton Farms... I felt very, very supported while we were shooting." [22:09]

Challenges of Directing and Creative Vision Eva reflects on her journey into directing, overcoming fears of inadequacy, and embracing her unique creative voice. She attributes her growth to insightful editing sessions and supportive collaborators:

"I was like, I can try this. I can do one." [30:03]

She emphasizes the importance of focusing on personal stories and authentic expression over fitting into traditional male-dominated directing roles.

Casting Insights and Memorable Scenes Discussing her casting choices, Eva highlights working with legendary actor John Carroll Lynch, describing his impactful presence in a pivotal sandwich-eating scene:

"He is just like a legend. And the scene was written originally as both of them are eating sandwiches." [33:53]

Eva shares how Lynch's involvement brought a burst of energy and authenticity to the film, enhancing its emotional depth.

Film Reception and Personal Reflections Eva talks about the film's reception, noting the profound connections audiences have felt with the story. She expresses both gratitude and the emotional weight of viewers relating their personal struggles to her work:

"People feel like they found something in it that was for them." [42:14]

She grapples with the duality of creating a deeply personal narrative that resonates universally, pondering the balance between individuality and relatability in storytelling.

Cultural Influences and Personal Life In discussing her cultural diet, Eva mentions her current reading, The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler, and her love for Arnold Palmers. She also touches on her non-binary identity and the expressive fashion choices she embraces during awards season:

"Something like alien, but hot, but a guy, but, like a hot girl." [38:37]

Eva shares her excitement about blending art and personal expression through her wardrobe, drawing inspiration from icons like Greta Lee and Solange.

Conclusion The episode wraps up with a light-hearted discussion about favorite sandwiches and the camaraderie between the hosts and their guest, Ava Victor. The hosts commend Eva for her courage and creativity, leaving listeners inspired by her authentic approach to filmmaking and personal expression.

Notable Quotes:

• "Sorry, Baby is a movie about a person trying to heal and the best friendship that saves this person's life." — Eva Victor [20:54]
• "It's the blessing of not being a prodigy is that you get time to get good at something in private." — Eva Victor [18:36]
• "You like I like that people feel like they found something in it that was for them." — Eva Victor [42:14]

Final Thoughts This episode of The Run-Through with Vogue offers a blend of personal stories, fashion insights, and a deep dive into Eva Victor's debut film. The candid conversation highlights the intersections of creativity, personal growth, and authentic storytelling, making it a must-listen for fashion enthusiasts and aspiring creatives alike.

Transcript

[Choma Nardi]

This episode of the Run through is brought to you by eBay. EBay. It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion over and over again, your favorite designers expertly authenticated. Yeah, ebay. Things people love.

[Chloe Mao]

This is the Run Through. I'm Chloe Mao.

[Choma Nardi]

And I'm Choma Nardi.

[Chloe Mao]

Choma. I had. Oh, my God. First of all, Choma, these are fabulous new glasses.

[Choma Nardi]

Thanks. I sort of. They're not new. They're like Warby parkers I've had for a while, but I sort of struggled with wearing them.

[Chloe Mao]

They haven't been big in the rotation.

[Choma Nardi]

No, no. Because I'm in denial that I actually need glasses to read.

[Chloe Mao]

They're sort of big, wire frame. How would you describe them?

[Choma Nardi]

Like, aviator glasses. They always. I feel like aviators always suit my face. And are they kind of like what Jenna Lyon wears?

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, hers. I feel like the frames are thicker. Or did she go into wire frames?

[Choma Nardi]

No, maybe the frames are thicker. Yeah, you're right. No, they're wire frames. They're like aviator style. A little bit big, but not too big. And they're rose gold. They're rose gold frame. I like them. I've had them forever. But the initial lenses that I put in. Sorry, we're going into real detail on my eyesight. But, yeah, it's hard because they're just reading glasses. So sometimes when I look up, I'm like, oh, it doesn't feel right. So it's getting used to that. It's just aging, guys. It's not dignified.

[Chloe Mao]

You give it dignity, Choma.

[Choma Nardi]

I know. I'm always teasing my brother about having the big font on his phone, and now I'm like, am I gonna be that person? You know who I am now? I'm the person who puts a flashlight on the menu. Wow. I need to stop that. Yeah, I'm at that stage of sight in any restaurant.

[Chloe Mao]

Or just a cool, dark restaurant.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, aren't most restaurants dark and cool? Like, I'm going to a dark and cool restaurant later. I'm sure it's in a basement, but it's like.

[Chloe Mao]

But your flashlight will be nothing.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, the romantic lighting does nothing for my eyes. So here we are. But, yes, I'm glad you noticed, because I actually really like them anyway.

[Chloe Mao]

I do too.

[Choma Nardi]

Ooh, I heard you had Ava Victor on the show.

[Chloe Mao]

She was so fabulous. I had met her at a screening I went to at the San Be Sunday Bungalows of her film Sorry, Baby, which she was wrote, directed, and stars in and I loved the movie and I loved her Q and A that she did afterward with co stars Naomi Ackey and Lucas Hedges. And I am a big fan of hers and we had a really fun conversation.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, I'm so excited. I've heard so much about this movie. My. My movie. Sensei Sally Singer has told me that I should watch this. It's not out in the UK yet, but I'm chomping at the bit to watch it. So I can't wait to hear your conversation.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, yeah, we chatted on Zoom. We had a very fun, meandering chat where we covered a lot of discussion about her cats. They work with Daniel Goldberg, who's an amazing stylist. So that was interesting to talk about. But first, Chalma, I want to hear what is happening in the uk.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, I mean, over the weekend, Charli xcx, who is the woman of the hour here. Just forever and always. And the coolest. The coolest girl in the world.

[Chloe Mao]

The brattiest brat of all.

[Choma Nardi]

The brattiest brat of all. I'm just. Still, I'm having flashbacks to her cameo at Dua Lipa's concert. And she was fab. I really wish I'd seen her at Glastonbury. She got married at Hackney Town Hall. And now we're thinking about how chic town hall weddings are again. And we've been having this conversation in the office. City hall weddings in America, but we call them town hall weddings. She married her beau, George Daniel, Drummer. The drummer George Daniel. And she got married in Vivienne Westwood.

[Chloe Mao]

I liked her Vivienne Westwood. I mean, we have a whole post on all the best Vivian Westwood brides, but I thought hers felt very fresh because it was a mini dress and she carried a bouquet of daisies. What did you think, Joma?

[Choma Nardi]

Same. I really zoned in on the bouquet of daisies because I'm really picky about flowers. And I think, like, I just think bouquets can always look a bit done. And I love that she chose, like the humble daisy, which I don't think gets enough play in our world. And I love wildflowers. So for me, that was like a perfect touch and made me obsessed with the overall look, you know?

[Chloe Mao]

What I liked was that his boutonniere was also daisies and wildflowers. It didn't feel too coordinated, but it just seemed very. There was something quite charming and sweet about that.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, I like that. Yeah, same. I'm very here for that. Well, it looks like a Devil Wears Prada fever. Is Ramping up. No.

[Chloe Mao]

I have to say I would be curious to talk to someone who works in film and TV more about this. But it really is a recent, I would say in the last five, 10 years, phenomenon of paparazzi photos leaking from on set because it's such. It really drives a conversation in positive and negative ways. I mean, we've seen with the Carolyn Bissette Kennedy American Love Story pictures, people are rabid about that. With this Devil Wears Prada, people are tearing apart every look. The same thing happens within just like that. And it's very much about not being able to hide if you're filming in a major city. So that's definitely been the case with Devil Wears Prada. The first few days of filming in New York City have already come out and there's really some dramatic looks for Andy Sachs.

[Choma Nardi]

Do you think they adjust the costumes according to the reaction? I mean, I wonder if these are discussions that are being had. Is there time even for that or are they releasing things that have been filmed eons ago and it's kind of in the run up to the movie and not in real time?

[Chloe Mao]

No, I think this is today and I think there's definitely room for adjusting. That's what Ryan Murphy said in his interview with Lauren Sherman was that they're enlisting fashion experts based on this feedback, et cetera.

[Choma Nardi]

Wow. Well, I think it does show you that the clothes do make the movie often. And especially with these movies that have such. Especially if you're. If they're biopics, you really have to get it right. Or very beloved series or sequels because people were very attached to. I mean, Carrie. I still. I mean, I know we're not talking about unjust like that today, but I still think that everyday trauma. I just can't believe she. She dumped Aiden for the first time. For the third time. I think I'm still reading.

[Chloe Mao]

I can't remember your team Aiden.

[Choma Nardi]

I was, but he's just not. He's such a dud in this.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, he's always been a dud. I'm sorry.

[Choma Nardi]

He's okay. Maybe I just didn't. This is just shows you. Maybe I have.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm not good at furniture.

[Choma Nardi]

I don't have a good ticker for men.

[Chloe Mao]

Girl.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, you know, it's. I need to get. I have to get it wrong three times before I realize.

[Chloe Mao]

I realize as I say this that Graham's biggest hobby is making furniture. But anyway, we digress.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh my goodness.

[Chloe Mao]

Guess what I did this weekend. Joma, what did you do? This weekend I went to see the Smurfs with Arthur and Alice Albert.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

And Rihanna steals the show. She is the whole movie. Smurfette owns the film. It's really a delight to behold.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, I can't wait to. I can't wait to see it.

[Chloe Mao]

But as exciting have been her maternity looks, which she has just been rolling out and we are all delighted. I mean, she's wearing some sort of kooky polka dot tie over her bare bump with an open blazer. She obviously had riot dressed in custom new Jonathan Anderson for Dior Men's.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, this is really, I love that moment.

[Chloe Mao]

A high point of dress your children better than yourselves. I have to say.

[Choma Nardi]

I know. I almost feel like just when I thought her maternity style couldn't get any better, she threw in the addition of like custom looks for her kids.

[Chloe Mao]

It's impressive. Choma, I don't know if this trickled across the pond, but everyone here was obsessed with the WNBA All Stars game that was in Indianapolis this past weekend. They had a huge celeb and influencer and editor contingent and people. I just find that among my peers and friends, people are so invested in the WNBA in a way that they never have been in frankly any women's sports league. So it's been exciting to see and to watch. Emma did an I want what they have with Paige Beckers and her girlfriend Azie Fudd, and people went nuts. I got so many texts being like, oh, I feel so seen. I love them, blah, blah, blah. It's really activated a fan base that we love to see. And obviously people are very invested in Ellie the Elephant. Our very own Ignacio Murillo was at the Liberty game last night and was on the Jumbotron for a an extended 30 seconds dancing.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh my God, I want to see that. I wish I was a fly on the wall.

[Chloe Mao]

It's on his Instagram stories, so you're in luck.

[Choma Nardi]

Okay, I'm going to go check it out. It's funny that you say that because I have a friend who literally text me about the WNBA players and their looks recently. And this is how it like broke through for me. Across from across the pond, we have the same thing happening here with women's soccer. And actually this weekend I'm going to Basel in Switzerland for the final. Yes, England made it to the final.

[Chloe Mao]

Choma, what did you do last week? You saw Kendrick Lamar?

[Choma Nardi]

I saw Kendrick Lamar and Sza last night.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God, they're playing.

[Choma Nardi]

They've taken their tour here. It's actually the highest grossing duo tour of all time. I think they've made like 100 million or something. Insane.

[Chloe Mao]

That's crazy.

[Choma Nardi]

It's bigger than Jay and Beyonce's, so it's quite a big deal. And it was a really fantastic show. I went with both of my brothers and we never have sibling outings, so it was very, very sweet. And my younger brother is a huge Kendrick and SZA fan. They're his two favorite artists. So it was really cool because in the crowd, obviously you have the people who are SZA fans, the people who are Kendrick fans, the people who are both. There was like a mosh pit basically erupted when Not Like Us came on. And everybody was singing the lyrics, which is insane. And it was like there was pyrotechnics. It was a huge, huge show. SZA transforms into a butterfly and is suspended from. Yeah, sort of flies off. It was quite incredible.

[Chloe Mao]

I spent last week on an upcoming cover shoot in Jackson Hole.

[Choma Nardi]

I've heard that cover shoot went very well.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God, the photos are so fabulous.

[Choma Nardi]

I've heard. I can't wait to see that.

[Chloe Mao]

It's like very old school, early aughts Vogue. It's really fun. Virginia said that it was a huge undertaking. The rant we shot it at was amazing. And it was in Jackson Hole. The production team that produced it was fantastic. It was just a really fun shoot to be on. And my colleague Sam Sussman and Iggy Mario were both there. And we went to the famous Million Dollar Cowboy bar where we sat on the saddle bar stools and had ranch water, which is tequila and Topo Chico. It was delicious. Don't worry about it.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, God.

[Chloe Mao]

And we saw real cowboys who were riding real horses. We were in the Grand Tetons.

[Choma Nardi]

It was all very grimscape, insane and beautiful.

[Chloe Mao]

The landscape is one of the most spectacular places I've ever seen and I'd never been to. That's not true. I've been to Wyoming when I was little, but I'd never been to Jackson. And it was just so gorgeous. Shoma, when are you going on vacation?

[Choma Nardi]

I'm going on vacation in mid August. I still have to work out my dates, but I think I'm gonna go to Greece. My brother and his family are going to Greece and so I'm gonna hang out with them and that'll be pre Going to. Then I'll hop over to Venice for the.

[Chloe Mao]

How fun.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes, it's gonna be. And I might see Fran Francesca Ragazzi, our wonderful Italian head of editorial content at Italian Vogue and, well, I hope.

[Chloe Mao]

You'Ll see the Marc Jacobs by Sofia Coppola documentary that everyone's been extremely excited about.

[Choma Nardi]

I have no idea of the lineup from the days that I'm going, but I might pop to the Dolomites and see Fran if she's.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God. So fun. Pop to the Dolomite, a great travel memoir in Europe.

[Choma Nardi]

Everything's close, darling. Everything's close.

[Chloe Mao]

That's crazy.

[Choma Nardi]

Where are you going on vacation?

[Chloe Mao]

I am going to France, to the southwest, near Toulouse. My sister and her partner and her three kids are going to be there. We have a couple of friends coming. I am so excited. My kids are very excited. My kids are mostly excited because in French Tabac press shops they have little kids magazines with toys. And this has become an obsession of my children. And I'm like, over in the US Print is dead, my friends. So enjoy this while you can. The run through will be back right after this break.

[Choma Nardi]

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[Chloe Mao]

And we're back with Ava. Victor, where are you right now?

[Ava Victor]

Los Angeles.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, what is this calendar?

[Ava Victor]

Oh, this is my calendar that I don't use, but I got it in Japan. It's like Miyazaki cartoons on it and. But I don't. My goal for the year was to like write down the stuff that was happening and on the calendar. Calendar, yes. But okay, recently I just changed it over to June, but obviously not that recently because it's now July. But if you look to where I'm looking, there's like a bunch of little toys. Whatever. Like, I look at all this stuff that's on my love stuff, but you just get the blank calendar, which isn't so fair.

[Chloe Mao]

But give me one example of a good toy, a little Aquaphor. Oh, we love tiny Aquaphor.

[Ava Victor]

This is my. This is a toy that when my cat had his birthday, we put this on the cake.

[Chloe Mao]

How old is your cat and how much did your cat inspire the cat in? Sorry, baby, he is eight.

[Ava Victor]

It completely inspired the film. Of course. He completely saved my life for like, for the last decade. Really. Like, he seriously was there. And I think it's so beautiful that we. He does not speak English. I do not speak whatever he has going on in his head, but we seriously get each other. Like, it's just so deep. And do you have pets?

[Chloe Mao]

I do. My dog and I are extremely connected.

[Ava Victor]

Dogs are so beautiful. I love a dog. I just. What kind of dog?

[Chloe Mao]

He's a mutt, but we think he's half Saint Bernard, half poodle.

[Ava Victor]

Oh, my God.

[Chloe Mao]

That's a very powerful presence. Yeah.

[Ava Victor]

He must be kind of big.

[Chloe Mao]

No, he's very big, but very squat.

[Ava Victor]

Oh, I love a squat dog. I love a little dachshund.

[Chloe Mao]

He's a little short king.

[Ava Victor]

He sounds like legitimately my type.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, he's great.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah. No, my cat. My cat's good and. And very much inspired the film.

[Chloe Mao]

What is your cat's name?

[Ava Victor]

Clyde.

[Chloe Mao]

Clyde.

[Ava Victor]

What's your dog's name?

[Chloe Mao]

Lloyd.

[Ava Victor]

Oh, my God. They go together. They do. Did you choose or did you find with name?

[Chloe Mao]

No, I chose, and I actually, we got Lloyd right when I found out I was pregnant with my son. And it was sort of a telling detail for my husband that I had a list in my notes app of potential dog names, but not children's names.

[Ava Victor]

Wait, you have a son?

[Chloe Mao]

I have a son and a daughter.

[Ava Victor]

Are you, like, actually 18?

[Chloe Mao]

No, I'm turning 40 very soon.

[Ava Victor]

Are you for real?

[Chloe Mao]

I was a geriatric second pregnancy.

[Ava Victor]

People say being 40 is life. People say really? Everything okay. That's all I hear. All I hear is your 40s are. It just gets better and better. Like, 40s are it. Okay, well, from people in their 40s, so I don't know what 50s are. Probably even better, but people say 40.

[Chloe Mao]

Scares me a little bit, but 40. How old are you?

[Ava Victor]

31.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay. 30s was. Was good for me. There's a lot. A lot of things happening in 30s.

[Ava Victor]

Well, my 20s were like a complete dumpster fire, so I'm like, 30s. Have to be chill. Like, things were weird then. No, 40s, I. I look forward to. You don't have to worry about 50 yet. It's not time yet.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Ava Victor]

All right. I'm, like, telling you what to do. That's not that cool.

[Chloe Mao]

No, I. I was with a friend at his 40th birthday this weekend, and he was like. It was so scary because I feel like for so long I was getting all this attention for being really good at work, for being so young, and now you're just middle age and okay at work, and it's a weird. That is definitely A thing with 40 is like, you're not a prodigy person anymore. Yeah. Like you still get to be a prodigy.

[Ava Victor]

No, I think it's over already. Like, but I think it's, like, the blessing of not being a prodigy is that you get time to get good at something in private.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah. And, like, you don't have the Orson Welles syndrome, where it's like, Citizen Kane sort of screws, you know, from now on.

[Ava Victor]

Exactly. And, like, you're actually, like, not ready to be exposed because it's too painful, you know? I also think there's something to say about, like, hobbies being so important as you get older, because it's, like, about humbling yourself to being a beginner and not doing something to be the best at it. Like.

[Chloe Mao]

That's a good point. What's your hobby?

[Ava Victor]

I don't have one. That's what I'm thinking. That's why I'm, like, I really want that. Obviously don't have that. I'm not. Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

I feel like Lloyd is my hobby.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, no, Clyde's my hobby. I'm, like, always talking to him and always helping him figure out what he needs. Wait, so. And your kids? How old are your kids?

[Chloe Mao]

Five and three.

[Ava Victor]

Holy cow.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Ava Victor]

Very cute stuff going on.

[Chloe Mao]

A lot of Disney movies. What's your favorite Disney movie?

[Ava Victor]

Mulan.

[Chloe Mao]

You mean Princesses of Mulan?

[Choma Nardi]

Yes.

[Ava Victor]

Mulan, I think, is, like, the girl of the world.

[Chloe Mao]

She is. It was. I was too old for Mulan. Like, it wasn't a thing when I was little. So I learned. I discovered Mulan recently. Mulan is such a badass. I really am such a good movie.

[Ava Victor]

It's so sad. Like, I feel like that movie. Everyone is doing their best randomly.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah.

[Ava Victor]

And that's really rare, except for, I guess, the scary guys.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, yeah. Shen Yu is not doing his best. Well, he is doing his best, but it's bad.

[Ava Victor]

I will say, like, I grew up watching it in French. So whenever anyone talks about, like, any of, like, I don't know, like, I'll make a man out of you, I feel like I discovered through people doing karaoke of it. Like, I was watching in French, I didn't understand it, but I feel like the story is powerful enough visually that I didn't have to. Like, when I heard Reflection. That's what it's called, right? Reflection. The first time I was like, holy shit. Like, this is such a beautiful idea.

[Chloe Mao]

So do you go back to France a lot? Because you were born in Paris, right?

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, I was. I go back. It was like, a milestone when I finally had a job where I could afford to take myself To Paris on my own as an adult.

[Chloe Mao]

What was that job?

[Ava Victor]

Well, I think the first one, I got a job working at Comedy Central and had, like, a salary for the first time. And so I think I went once right before COVID and then I did a TV show called Billions. And I was able to go back, like, kind of once a year after that, which I think I'd always go back alone. And I just find it to be really wonderful to be there alone and, like, sad, but perfect.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to know how you describe Sorry Baby to someone in an elevator. Like, someone like you're. You meet sort of like your parents friend. They're like, oh, Ava, what have you been up to? Oh, I hear you have a movie and you have to describe it in two minutes.

[Ava Victor]

I stop the elevator and like, listen. No, I'm like, hold on. I have a lot to say. I guess the thing I would say is sorry, Baby is a movie about a person trying to heal and the best friendship that saves this person's life and the everyday pain of looking around when you feel stuck and everyone is moving on and it's just you in your house trying to figure out how to keep going in a world you don't totally understand anymore. They'd be like, that sounds really depressing. I'd be like, yeah, totally. It's also funny, but I can't prove that to you right now, but try to go see it.

[Chloe Mao]

So funny and so touching. And I have to say, I really felt like I was transported into this very intimate world for. What is it, 90 minutes? Two hours? It's a tight movie. It's not.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, it's not long. It's like 100 minutes.

[Chloe Mao]

It's a hundred minutes. Okay, so it's close to two hours. But it. I mean, it's such a powerful world to be part of because it is very much. You feel like you're in this quotidgian day to day of such an important moment in the main character's life. And I wanna know, where did you guys film and sort of, what was the day to day like when you were on set? Because it's just the vibe you get from watching it is this must have been such a. That intimacy must have extended to filming it.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, I mean, well, it was a. It's a very small film. And the. The one cool thing about making a movie for very little money is that anyone who's there is there because they do have something in the script that is calling to them and that makes them want to do It So there is just like this immediate sort of understanding that if you're there, you are there for a reason. That is the story we want to tell. We shot in outside of Boston in a little town called Ipswich. It was very, very sweet. We shot on this property called Appleton Farms. There was like this little cabin that used to be where they like the laundry house on this estate. And the estate, the big mansion on the estate got torn down, but the laundry house remained. And that's where we shot. Yeah. I mean, I think obviously it's a super personal story and it's in moments, a very difficult story. And I was very lucky that I had people who understood how vulnerable this was for me. And I felt very, very supported while we were shooting. And I wanted it to take place in this sort of New England town that felt like it could skew romantic and cozy like the holiday or kind of horror when the character is feeling stuck and scared. So doing a cabin in the woods, shooting in a cabin in the woods can be very helpful when you're trying to move through tone. True.

[Chloe Mao]

Cabin in the woods is almost uniquely pan tonal.

[Ava Victor]

Yes. Yes, true. Yeah. I mean, it was like a movie of. There's 84 scenes, I think, in the script that we shot, and 70 of them are in the house. So finding the house and finding how a house moves and changes over five years was really important in telling a story about five years in time and how it moves.

[Chloe Mao]

I was sort of amazed, and I keep laughing when I was preparing for this and was reading that everyone keeps calling it a traumady and how triggering that is, because it's a terrible word. Well, it's not a word to be clear.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, right. And I feel like it's sexist. I don't know what to say. I think it's sexist. Like I just feel sexist.

[Chloe Mao]

The film is trope defying. It's genre less, which people hate. But I think that that is such an exciting thing and also for a first film, it's a very brave thing. Was there ever a moment where you felt I need to be clear with people about what this is, or were you always confident enough in the story that you knew it could straddle several different things?

[Ava Victor]

I think I knew it could straddle, but I definitely lied to people when they needed to be lied to to tell them it would be a certain way. Honestly. Like I was like, it's going to be like Juno. Like, it's going to be like Juno. It's going to be like Fargo and Stepbrothers. And then also, like, I'd be like. But it's also, like, three colors blue. But then. But I wouldn't say that because that's, like, not something anyone wants. You know, you say different things to different people to make them believe in the film. But I always knew I wanted to make a film that was beautiful in a very, like, art house way and shot in a very formal way, ultimately, while making a comedy, too. And I couldn't totally find an example of those two things. I think the visual language became very inspired by the film Certain Women by Kelly Reichart, which is a film all about women's interiority. And it's shot in a way that's very restrained. Like, we don't go close until we have to. That film was sort of a North Star for me, of, yes, this film and the way that. How beautiful it is to see these women in these wides looking alone, plus, like, jokes.

[Chloe Mao]

I feel like it's become sort of lore now. Well, in the Ava Victor universe. But that Barry Jenkins, with, like, three people. Barry Jenkins loved your YouTube films that you were making, and he really encouraged you to take this film that you had written and direct it yourself. When did you finally feel like a director?

[Ava Victor]

That's a good question. I think there were a few moments in the edit that I was, like, where I was. One of my editors, Alex o', Flynn, is very good and very smart, and some of the things he would say about why things were working and not working at the very beginning, I was like, oh, man, I wonder if. I wonder if I could see that too someday. Like, that I could understand. Like, I could understand why something's working and not working in the way that he does. And I think there were moments in the edit that I. I got to a place where I was like, it has to be this way because. And I understood why. And I think that's when I. That's when I feel like the directing. I understood a part of the directing that I hadn't before, which was why something needed to be a certain way and why we needed to use this shot and not that shot. And we needed to cut here. And that, I feel like that was the real joy of directing ultimately for me. I think I found in the edit, but also once that, you know, it's really wild to be acting and directing.

[Chloe Mao]

At the same time, because I'm always astounded by it. And acting, directing your own material you've written, because it's hard to find distance from that. I have a Question. Fuck. Chuck or Mary? Writer, director, actor.

[Ava Victor]

Whoa.

[Chloe Mao]

Like, which one really stays with you? As like, I need to. That's my marriage for life.

[Ava Victor]

Well, you know, there's something about writing that is sort of like. And I think I'm probably also saying this because it's been so long since that part of this experience, but there's something very spiritual about being alone with the page. And it's devastating and heartbreaking and, like, scary. And I'm. I'm now, like, looking back at the writing as something I miss and love and don't really understand how I did it. So I think that's the one that I'm like, no matter what, like, it will. Like, I'll go crazy, but I'll have a piece of paper, so it'll be fine. It's kind of my energy right now, but.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, it sounds like it's time to get back to writing.

[Ava Victor]

Thank you. Thank you for saying that. I'm gonna try. Okay. You get back to writing too, if you can.

[Chloe Mao]

It's going really well.

[Ava Victor]

Honestly, someone being like, why don't you start writing? It's like, well, why don't you fuck off, freak out and not make me do that? No, but it's true. It's like, it is kind of this, like, unbelievable thing that something you write by yourself can turn into something that exists completely outside of you that so many people worked on and is no longer just yours. And is this thing that doesn't. It has to do with you, but now it's something else. And for other people, it's so mind bending to me. Yes, obviously I'm in a crazy mental.

[Chloe Mao]

State, but we sort of embrace that for you right now.

[Ava Victor]

We do. We have to. Because honestly speaking, for me. Okay, good. You're getting eyes again from. From your people. Like, who is this bitch?

[Chloe Mao]

What was the scariest thing about directing this? Because that, to me just seems like it would be so daunting.

[Ava Victor]

I think the scariest thing was I was worried I was going to be bad. Like, innately something about me wasn't made to do it. It's like something that's always been taught to me as, like, a very masculine thing to do. Men sort of have whatever it takes, and for some reason, like, there's a reason why no one's asked me to do it until now. I was worried that, you know, if I'm acting and directing at the. At the. In the same, like, time period, going back and forth, that I'll miss something. But that is crazy. And I genuinely loved Doing it. And I prepared so much because I had such fraudulent feelings going in. And the thing I kept saying was, like, I'm not going to be bad because I'm unprepared. It's going to be because I innately am missing some quality that's required. But. But no, I think I was raised, like, in a world where we don't sort of, like. I feel like, like, sometimes men. Some men are born with this feeling like, that it's their birthright to make a couple of films, to just see how it goes. And I'm jealous of that. And I think it took me a second to be like, you can try this. Like, you can do one. And you know that. And I think the thing that really helped me with my fraudulence was remembering, like, I don't need to direct every film in the world right now. I actually. This is the story I'm trying to tell, and I am the person who is supposed to lead this. So that was helpful to just be like, right, let's focus on this singular story about this one person that you. You do understand, like, innately. And that helped me out of my brain. Freak.

[Chloe Mao]

I was extremely moved and receptive to Agnes and Liddy's relationship. Liddy's character is inspired by a friend of yours. What was it like when you first showed that person the film?

[Ava Victor]

You know, the person, like, my best friend had been along for the ride for the whole time, so she is very, very close to me. But it was. But it was a great joy to get to take our friendship and put it on the screen and also learn how Lydia and Agnes are really different from us, too. It was a real joy to differentiate Agnes from me. And that was really meaningful to figure out. Oh, Agnes is sort of this aspirational version of me that's actually kind of a different person. Like, I think Agnes is really blunt and really comfortable in silence, and I'm less like that. And I had a really joyful time, like, living in silence and. And, like, her bluntness. And then also, Naomi is. It's like this completely just, like, open, sunny, warm, brilliant actor. And she imbued Lydia with, like, so much that I didn't even. I couldn't have even imagined. And so it was actually really fun to, for lack of a better, like, term, like, make a new friend, make new people together. So, yeah, I was very inspired by, like, that kind of love and also turned into a different kind of love that was really fun to play with.

[Chloe Mao]

One of my favorite scenes is when you're eating a sandwich with John Carroll Lynch.

[Ava Victor]

Thank you.

[Chloe Mao]

Was he always someone you were inspired to be working with or. Cause it just, it felt like an important scene. And also maybe not a scene that I would have written thinking it was going to be as important as it maybe ended up being.

[Ava Victor]

Yes. I mean, I have been a fan of John for years and years and years. And it's very special to ask the zodiac killer to come into your movie 75% of the way through to knock on your window and be nice. Like, it was a very fun, fun thing to do. And he is just like a legend. And the scene was written originally as both of them are eating sandwiches. Like he made a sandwich for her and for himself. And he was like, I just don't think, I don't think he would eat one himself. I think he would just make one for her. And I was like, are you sure? And he was like, well, when I was in Fargo, we were both supposed to be eating breakfast, but then I said, I just want to make her eggs. And so that's what we did. And I was like, so, yeah, you can just make her the sandwich. And one will do that. But no, he's wonderful. And it was such an honor to act opposite him. He kind of came in the second week and was there for two days and it was like this burst of energy and this sort of legend coming through the film. And it was really, I remember getting the email that he wanted to do it and it felt like this real vote of confidence because he's also a director and he's the idea that he would. That he felt connected enough to the script, to the script to. To work with me as a first time director. I think it just, you know, the thing about an actor who is open and excited to work with a first time director. It takes a really special, like sort of visionary kind of person to trust you without having any proof that you should be trusted.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Ava Victor]

And so it kind the film, like somehow looking back, assembled people who had that have that kind of like confidence and bravery. And so I think the cast is sort of this like magic group because they all saw something before it was real.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, absolutely. And I wonder what your favorite sandwich order is.

[Ava Victor]

Oh my God. Well, this sandwich is based on the Court street grocer Vegetalian. You know it.

[Chloe Mao]

Ooh, delicious.

[Ava Victor]

It's so good. And there was like a part in the film where we explained what was in the sandwich, like the butternut squash, but it's not there anymore. But that's my Sandwich, and I'll get salt and vinegar chips on the side. And then recently I had their macaroni salad, and I'm not even like, a macaroni salad. Like, head. Like, I don't know. Me neither about that. But it's so vinegary. Like, I don't even know what this. What's your favorite sandwich?

[Chloe Mao]

I love that. Vegetarian. I love a really, like, mozzarella root vegetable sandwich. Like a butternut squash or trying to think what else? I guess eggplant is definitely not a root vegetable. I'm just trying to think, like, a meaty vegetable.

[Ava Victor]

I would literally believe that was a root vegetable, like, to my grave. Like, wait, so are you a vegetarian?

[Chloe Mao]

I'm not, but I like a vegetarian sandwich. It's weird. I just need cheese in my sandwich. That's the caprese.

[Ava Victor]

Yes, me too. Yes, me too.

[Chloe Mao]

Like a caprese panini. It's hard. A really good one with pesto. It's very hard to pest out in that.

[Ava Victor]

I think pesto is everything.

[Chloe Mao]

Everything.

[Ava Victor]

Pesto is so good.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes.

[Ava Victor]

What is up with that? It's like garlic and salt.

[Chloe Mao]

So it's just one of the few things I cook. Cook.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I put it in a blender.

[Ava Victor]

Well, that's actually a really intense thing to make because so much basil equals so little pesto that you actually have.

[Chloe Mao]

That's true. And you have to just dump olive oil. I mean, there's a lot of.

[Ava Victor]

And cheese. Cheese. Cheese.

[Choma Nardi]

Pine nuts.

[Ava Victor]

Pine nuts. Pine nuts. That's the good stuff.

[Choma Nardi]

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[Chloe Mao]

So I saw the film at San Vicente Bungalows, and it was very beautiful. It was so much fun to be there. And it was such a fun group of people. And it was so exciting to see a movie everyone was excited about together. And Sarah and I were talking about it before, and she was like, it's just fun to throw a screening for someone who you know everyone's gonna be talking about in a few months. And it feels like this early moment of a big film and a big talent that's just, like, launching onto the world. And I completely agree with her. And I wonder. We talk a lot at Vogue, especially during awards season, about how tricky it is for female directors to dress for awards season without feeling like they have to wear black suits the whole time to be taken seriously. Or like they have to wear disco balls to get attention. What Are you and Danielle thinking, what's the vibe gonna be for Ava's awards season circuit?

[Ava Victor]

Well, you know, there's also, like, another layer to it, which is that I'm non binary, and I feel like there's also this being public in your body with an outfit. It. It means a lot. And, like, I think at Cannes, something that was really fun to do was we did, like, a suit one night and then a gown sort of the next night, and that was fun. It kind of became like bridegroom to myself. And I liked the play. Like, I think the thing that. When I met Danielle, I was like, the thing I'm interested in, and it's been an amazing year for me. Refashion because press is not so creative, I'm finding. But wearing something that feels like a piece of art does feel creative. And finding a way to feel like myself in this art piece outfit is really actually a new thing for me and very exciting. I feel like a little kid, in a good way. So I think the thing I always said to Danielle was, like, I want to play, like, I want to feel like alien, but hot, but a guy, but, like a hot girl. And I just want it to be everything. And, you know, I don't know what's in store, and I don't. You know, it's a weird time because the movie just came out, and I feel weird, like, I just had a baby, but obviously, like, would never say that to a mother, and I know that that's not the same, but I feel weird. And I. I would never say that to you, but I respect that.

[Chloe Mao]

An art baby is really a lot. Birthing an art baby is no joke.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm not gonna make you try to, like, make what I said make sense, but I look, but I don't know what the future holds. And I do think one of the exciting things about the next few months and being seen in different places is what I get to wear. And I'm excited to work with people who. Who want to play like that. Like, I. And I think looking at, like, Danielle's other collaborator artists, people like Greta Lee, and I always looks. And Solange always looks so. And Saoirse, they all look so themselves and special and, like. And, like, they're playing, and there's like. They're like a kid in a candy shop. And I feel like that is the joy of it, is the thing I want to hold on to, and I don't freaking know. I know. It's so funny, like, to look around and it does feel often like there's just constant affirmation that men are directors and that when women make movies, they somehow accidentally put together, like, a good movie or something. Or like that it's not that there's no. That you can't see the hand as well or something. And I'm like, that's. That's bizarre. It's so crazy. It's so crazy to not acknowledge that work because often the work is so thoughtful and tender and big and bold and heartbreaking and also sometimes quiet. And it seems like the heavier the hand, the more attention it gets sometimes. And that's really not how a good film works sometimes. So I'm trying to make sense of it all, too. But, yeah, I'm trying to play. I just made a speech.

[Chloe Mao]

I think you made a good speech. A play speech.

[Ava Victor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I made a big speech. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to know what the reception of the film has felt like, and has there been any either recurring response that you've been interested in or any really surprising reactions?

[Ava Victor]

It's an interesting mix for me of feeling very seen, feeling very affirmed in sort of a person way. And also pretty devastated because I see. And I've gotten to meet a lot of the people after screenings who've seen the film, and there's sort of this recognition immediately that this person's been through something or that this topic is incredibly sensitive to them. And that's really hard. And I. I don't totally know what to do with that. I guess there's a world in which I wish the film was so personal and was not universal, because meaning something to someone means something. You know, they've been. Whatever. They've been through hard stuff. But, you know, you write a film like this, or I wrote the film in this way that was like screaming into the void like, I'm here. I feel insane. Is anyone else out there? Is it just me feeling awful like this and to be met with sort of immediate, I'm here too. Energy has been so meaningful. Once in a while someone will say, like, did you mean to. This is like, something I saw. Did you mean to do that? And I'm like, by the time you make a movie and you're done making the movie, every single thing in the film is like, you know, it's there. You like. I like that people feel like they found something in it that was for them.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to know what you are reading, watching, listening to right now. What's the Ava Victor culture diet at the moment?

[Ava Victor]

Oh, it's really wild. Right now I'm doing sort of like a. Like a real reality deep dive right now. But I love that. I feel like when you walk into a room, there should be a light, like a light above someone's head if they watch Real Housewives so that you can know.

[Chloe Mao]

That's a great app idea.

[Ava Victor]

It's an app idea? Yeah, it's an idea.

[Chloe Mao]

It's like Shazam for housewives Friends.

[Ava Victor]

Yes. It's like, it's. And. And you can figure out which franchises people watch. So it's like if you only watch, like, Salt Lake. Like, I'm not. I would rather go to someone who watches, like, Orange county, like, that type of thing anyway. And I'm drinking a lot of Arnold Palmers. Lots of Arnold Palmers.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, I like that. For you.

[Ava Victor]

Thank you. I'm reading. Okay. So I just started this book called the Parable of the Sour. Have you read that?

[Choma Nardi]

No.

[Ava Victor]

Octavia butler. I'm. I'm 30 pages, ends. But it was like I brought on the airplane and I. I actually can't believe how good it is so far. Like, it's upsetting, but it's like, it's like this futuristic book, but it's set in like, I think, like 20, 23 or something. But it was written in the past, like in the 90s, but it's about now and, like, it's dystopian and it's this. About this, like, little girl and I'm just, like, into it.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, great. Anyway, I'm going to let you go.

[Ava Victor]

Oh, really?

[Chloe Mao]

We've gone. We've gone far.

[Ava Victor]

Do you think that everyone likes what we said and stuff?

[Chloe Mao]

Are you guys happy?

[Ava Victor]

We don't care.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm getting lots of thumbs up.

[Ava Victor]

So nice to meet you. Bye. Bye.

[Chloe Mao]

That's it for the show. The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global Audio.

[Choma Nardi]

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