← The Run-Through with Vogue
The Run-Through with Vogue
Exclusive: Leslie Fremar on Being the Real Emily In 'The Devil Wears Prada'
00:54:44
Loading summary
Transcript365 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law not available in all states
- [00:23]
B
as the weather gets warmer outside, I've been really digging in my closet looking for the perfect spring pieces I've been looking for. Specifically things that have breezy fabrics that are perfect to wear on those warmer days. Quince makes it super easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. My friend and producer Pran on the show loves wearing very cute Quince pieces. He specifically has a linen shirt from Quint that I am very envious of and I recently got a Quint tank that has been the perfect layering piece for the spring. So I highly recommend refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com RunThrough for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com RunThrough for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com RunThrough.
- [01:42]
A
This is the run through. I'm Chloe Mal and I am so excited for this extremely important exclusive podcast with Leslie Freemar, the Real Emily Revealed. Leslie, I'm so excited about this. We've all been talking about this for a few weeks and it just means a lot to me and the podcast that you're coming on because I was really touched when we spoke on the phone and you shared that this had just been something that you had not talked about for a while. And I just have a lot of questions.
- [02:19]
C
I don't think I've ever actually really talked about it.
- [02:22]
A
Interesting. Why are you open to talking about this now? And why do you think people are so fascinated by this story of who these characters really are?
- [02:32]
C
I think, I don't know. I think at the time 20 years ago the fashion industry was very hush hush and it was like an inner circle type situation. And I feel like when she wrote the book no one really knew much about it because everyone, not that it was secretive but it was just hard to break in and well it was before social media.
- [02:56]
A
It was more insular.
- [02:57]
C
Yeah, very. So I think at that time, people found that really interesting to get a real insider view, because no one, frankly, would have exposed it quite like that. So I think that that was really interesting. I think the movie did a great job at kind of fictionalizing it and making it a little bit more fun than maybe it actually is or was. But I quite enjoyed the movie, you know, as entertainment. So I think that people see it, the fashion industry, maybe, as entertainment. I don't know.
- [03:35]
A
You are now, 25 years later, an extremely successful stylist. You've styled Charlize Theron for a long time, many other people. I wanted to talk a bit about your early career in fashion, but I also want to talk about what the most exciting part of your current job and what you love to do the most. Are you dressing anyone for the Met Gala? Doing anything for Ken?
- [03:59]
C
I'm actually not this year. I find in my career, I've. I don't wanna say slowed down, but I've really tightened up the jobs that I do now, 25 years later, just, you know, I have kids and a busy family and just trying to balance it all. And I think when I was really in the height and thick of the whole thing, I was never home and I was always on and traveling, flying. So personally, I have pulled back a lot, and I'm just really selective on my current jobs that I do. I couldn't give it up completely. Cause I'm very passionate about it and it really is a part of me. But I don't work every single day, if that makes sense.
- [04:42]
A
Good for you.
- [04:43]
C
I just. Today, actually, Charlize is climbing a billboard in Times Square for her new movie, Apex. We just came off the tour.
- [04:51]
A
Wow. I've never heard that term, climbing a billboard. I like that.
- [04:55]
C
I know. Her new movie is about mountain climbing, so they're climbing the billboard.
- [04:59]
A
Oh, wow.
- [05:00]
C
Yeah. In Times Square. She is. And then they're gonna photograph her doing that.
- [05:04]
A
Oh, wait, she's actually climbing?
- [05:06]
C
Yes.
- [05:06]
A
I thought that that was like an advertising term for putting up a billboard that I'd never heard.
- [05:10]
C
No. She is climbing the billboard. Wow. Yes.
- [05:13]
A
Are you gonna go?
- [05:14]
C
I'm gonna leave here and I'm gonna go there. Yeah.
- [05:16]
A
Oh, my God. Is there a net?
- [05:19]
C
I'm sure she's wearing a harness. I don't know the details. There's a lot of professionals that helped her learn to climb and, you know, did safety on her movie. But, yes, she's physically climbing the billboard. In Times Square today.
- [05:31]
A
Wow.
- [05:32]
C
Yeah.
- [05:33]
A
What a stunt. Literally.
- [05:35]
C
Yeah.
- [05:35]
B
Okay.
- [05:36]
A
All right. Well, this is a robust Friday for you.
- [05:39]
C
I know. So, yeah. Yesterday we did five changes in a day. Yeah.
- [05:45]
A
Oh, my God. Just list what those are because I feel like people, especially with The Devil's Prada 2 press tour being in such high octane go mode, but people don't really understand how intense these days can be for everyone on those teams. So.
- [06:00]
C
Yeah.
- [06:01]
A
What is the five changes of a day on a press tour for Charlize?
- [06:06]
C
So we flew in the day before from LA, so we're all completely jet lagged. Wake up at 5 in the morning, start glam, go to the Today show.
- [06:16]
A
Yep.
- [06:16]
C
Take the look from the Today show. And we go and change her. We went to ride the subway for an hour to do a podcast on the subway. Then we went to the View, changed her. When she got to the View, we had a little break. Went to Jimmy Fallon, changed at the hotel, left for Jimmy Fallon at Jimmy Fallon. We changed her for the premiere and went to the premiere.
- [06:43]
A
That is a crazy day.
- [06:45]
C
Yes, it was. It was a really long day.
- [06:48]
A
This is something that came up because obviously at the Devil wears Prada 2 premiere on Monday, we were all noticing how hard it is to coordinate four main stars together. And like, I loved Emily Blunt in the Schiaparelli, but it wasn't really like a group photo dress.
- [07:07]
C
Yes.
- [07:08]
A
And I wonder how hard is it when, like, are you talking to other co stars, stylists for their press tours? Like, what is that process?
- [07:17]
C
Like, I. I personally don't actually, I probably should after seeing that photo, but there's so much prep that goes into it and it's really done in advance that it's hard to work with someone else and take that into consideration. Like, we're moving really fast. So I think unfortunately for those group photos, maybe those girls spoke, a lot of red was worn and it was
- [07:43]
A
like Bridesmaids where Anne and Meryl got the memo.
- [07:46]
C
I know.
- [07:48]
A
And they all looked great. It just as a group. There was dissonance.
- [07:51]
C
Yes. I agree with you. It's very hard to do. And I think, you know, people change their mind last minute and you have like kind of a selection of pieces and, you know, you try to schedule it out in advance, but then things change and something breaks or, you know, things you can't anticipate. So I don't think it would add an extra challenge to then consider a co star.
- [08:15]
A
No. Fair enough.
- [08:16]
C
Yeah.
- [08:16]
A
Wow. Five changes is unbelievable. Okay, we're rewinding. Though, to what year are we when you first graduate college and you're starting your career in fashion and you're going
- [08:26]
C
to Conde HR 1999.
- [08:29]
A
Okay, so it's 1999.
- [08:31]
C
Yeah.
- [08:31]
A
It's almost Y2K.
- [08:33]
C
Yeah.
- [08:33]
A
What did you know about Vogue? Anna Wintour, Conde Nast, when you went in for that first interview?
- [08:41]
C
I. I knew who Anna was. I interned at a local magazine in Canada when I was in high school. I was always in Toronto.
- [08:48]
A
You grew up in Toronto?
- [08:49]
C
Yes, in Toronto. I loved photography growing up. I maybe dabbled a little in modeling. Wasn't for me. And ended up having an interview with. At the time, her name was Bucky Keady in hr. I was interning at Harper's Bazaar in the accessories department and someone mentioned that there was an opening in the beauty department.
- [09:17]
A
Okay.
- [09:18]
C
And so I interviewed for that job with Amy Astley. With Amy.
- [09:22]
A
Okay. Yes.
- [09:23]
C
I did not get that job. She actually hired Tinsley Mortimer. Wow.
- [09:28]
A
Amy Astley, who was the longtime beauty editor at Vogue, then the founding editor of Teen Vogue and now the esteemed editor of Architectural Digest.
- [09:37]
C
Correct. So I interviewed with her and I didn't get the job. Tinsley got the job. And so then Bucky actually called me back to let me know that I didn't get the job and asked me if I wanted to come in to interview for Anna's second assistant.
- [09:53]
A
And did you know what that meant?
- [09:55]
C
No. Okay. I was just, you know, I'm from Canada and I was really just, I don't want to say desperate, but I needed to work and I wanted a job in fashion and no better place than to learn from her. And obviously Vogue for me was the dream. I didn't feel, I didn't necessarily think it was going to be my first job, but it ended up being my first job.
- [10:21]
A
And so what was your first interview with Anna like or your only interview with Anna?
- [10:25]
C
I remember clearly. I remember what I wore. I wore Jill Stewart.
- [10:29]
A
Okay.
- [10:30]
C
And then Jill Stewart.
- [10:32]
A
What? Describe set the scene.
- [10:33]
C
I was wearing a navy blue button up shirt tucked into kind of an A line black skirt.
- [10:40]
A
Okay.
- [10:40]
C
And then the girls at Harper's lent me a pair of Jimmy choose pumps from the closet and I wore those and they had a little bow on them. I didn't necessarily feel like myself, but I felt like I was dressing. Sounds great for the job. Yeah.
- [10:56]
A
And what was the interview process like?
- [10:59]
C
I met with Bucky, then I met with Jill Demeling, who was the first assistant at the time. Then I met with Anna.
- [11:08]
A
And what were Your first impressions of Anna and also the whole ecosystem at Vogue.
- [11:13]
C
I was petrified, to be honest. I was so nervous, I think I blacked out. I don't even remember. I think she asked me what book I was reading and where I was from and why I wanted to work there. And I think she was desperate for an assistant, and that's why I got the job.
- [11:32]
A
Devil Wears Prada became such a phenomenon that anyone who took a job in Anna's office or really at Vogue after that, there was that base level of awareness of what a version of working at Vogue was like. But when you started, there was nothing like that. What was. What was the onboarding process like?
- [11:53]
C
I mean, I did not know anything. I remember she asked me for tickets to. For that ferry that goes around Manhattan. I think it's called Circle Line.
- [12:04]
A
Yeah.
- [12:04]
C
And I didn't even know what Circle Line was.
- [12:06]
A
Why is she going on the Circle Line?
- [12:08]
C
She was, like, taking her kids on Circle Line. I swear, I remember that. But I didn't even know what it was. And it wasn't like I was. It's not like you're savvy. Like, you are now, where you're, like, just looking everything up on the Internet. And it's, like, right there. Like, I was, like, asking. I was like, what is Circle Line? There? Everyone's, like, rolling their eyes. They're like, it's the fairy. And I was like, ugh. And I remember, like.
- [12:29]
A
And you can't ask Anna for clarification.
- [12:31]
C
No, you can't.
- [12:32]
A
So there is really. It almost becomes a parlor game of sorts around the office sometimes to either decipher her handwriting or figure out what she means by something with the handwriting.
- [12:44]
C
Oh, my God. That's actually comedy. I was like, you know what? My dad has kind of a scribble, so.
- [12:52]
A
Prescription scribble.
- [12:53]
C
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I was kind of used to it.
- [12:58]
A
But there's certain people in the office who are known for being good at it, and they take great pride in deciphering. But there's a moment in the book which we'll get to in a minute, but I'm jumping ahead where there's a long sequence about how the Andy Sachs character is trying to figure out what Miranda meant by a restaurant review in the Post.
- [13:19]
C
Yes.
- [13:20]
A
About a new Asian fusion restaurant. And she cannot figure it out. And it turns out it's not the New York Post, it was the Washington Post. And it's this big aha moment. Did you have any great quest for understanding like that?
- [13:33]
C
Oh, my God. She had all these friends that I had to learn and I didn't know who they were.
- [13:39]
A
Can you spell Gamana?
- [13:41]
C
I know I was like, that I can do. But there were other things, like Lord Rothschild and just had to kind of address people. And she had friends that their calls would always roll through and others that I would have to take a message and just like learning what taught you that those nuances. Definitely. Jill.
- [14:06]
A
Yeah.
- [14:06]
C
Yeah.
- [14:07]
A
This is Jill Demling, who then went on to be the longtime entertainment editor at Vogue.
- [14:12]
C
Jill was very type A. She was the senior assistant, like, really
- [14:18]
A
strict and she ran a tight ship in Anna's office.
- [14:23]
C
Absolutely. Maybe I was more afraid of Jill, who ended up, you know, we became friends, but I definitely learned a lot from her.
- [14:32]
A
Was there like a booklet of the rules? Because some of the more recent assistants really rely on this like 20 page document that is continually updated with each outgoing class.
- [14:47]
C
Oh, really?
- [14:48]
A
Yeah.
- [14:49]
C
Oh, no. I wonder who wrote the original.
- [14:51]
A
I know, it's a good question.
- [14:52]
C
Actually, I did not have that.
- [14:54]
A
So you just had Jill.
- [14:55]
C
Yes.
- [14:56]
A
What was some of the most challenging learning curves for the first few months?
- [15:00]
C
Well, I mean, answering the phones and taking messages and making sure that she knows, you know, who she wanted to speak to. Whose call would roll.
- [15:10]
A
Is this email?
- [15:11]
C
This? No, this was on a physical.
- [15:15]
A
Is there any email at this point?
- [15:17]
C
I would fax her her newspapers when she was in Paris and we would type out this. Yeah, there was email, but she wasn't on it. Right.
- [15:27]
A
So we had this mod is going through the phone. Oh, now you know it's a totally
- [15:32]
C
different ball game, Right? No, she did not have email.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah.
- [15:35]
C
We would print out if someone emailed her and give it to her physically. Or we would write her messages on what we called the board and it would get updated. It would say the time, the message, the phone number of who she needs to call back.
- [15:49]
A
That was described in great detail in the book.
- [15:51]
C
Yes.
- [15:52]
A
Which I think was very accurate.
- [15:54]
C
Oh, yes. And then it's.
- [15:55]
A
Now there's an iPad.
- [15:56]
C
Oh, it is?
- [15:57]
A
Yeah.
- [15:57]
C
Oh, that's amazing. Wow. Good for her. Well, it would go on top of the desk and she would grab it and then she would return her calls. She returned everything. And then we would just check it off when it was done.
- [16:13]
A
Impressive.
- [16:13]
C
Yeah.
- [16:14]
A
You declined to become the first assistant when you were first offered the promotion.
- [16:20]
C
Correct.
- [16:21]
A
Tell me more.
- [16:23]
C
Well, I. I was just like learning the job and Jill had been there for a while and she was ready to move on.
- [16:30]
A
How long are you in the office at this point?
- [16:33]
C
I wanna say six months.
- [16:35]
A
Okay, so not even a year?
- [16:37]
C
No.
- [16:38]
A
Cause a typical tenure for second assistant and first assistant is one to two years.
- [16:43]
C
Yes. I'd say I was there for six months, maybe eight.
- [16:46]
A
Okay.
- [16:47]
C
But Jill was really ready to move on. And she kept convincing me that I was ready. And I was like, I am not ready. You know, because there was like very distinct roles. The first assistant would do like all of her scheduling and maybe more like business related stuff. And then the second assistant at the time would do more of the personal stuff. That type of scheduling. Getting her coffee, her lunch, you know, making sure her car was there. Much simpler, or what seemed to me as simpler tasks at the time. So when she offered me the promotion, I said, no, thank you.
- [17:26]
A
And what made you come around?
- [17:29]
C
I think Anna called Jill in the office and was like, jill, you need to convince her.
- [17:35]
A
Oh, that's nice.
- [17:36]
C
So then I was like, I knew I couldn't say no.
- [17:41]
A
What are your, like, core memories of that first year working for Anna with Jill?
- [17:47]
C
Yeah. I mean, it felt to me like grad school. Like, this is like the best grad school. Like I just got into Harvard grad school. Yeah. To me, that's what it felt like. And I was like, Anna had no boundaries where we could listen in on her calls. Her doors are open for meetings. Like, if you really were to pay attention. So much to learn. And I actually did feel that and appreciated that. Even though I was like young and green and just didn't really know. It was all moving really fast. It felt like to me, but. But I was there. I was in the heart of it. And the people that you're networking with, you know, invaluable. Everything just felt real. I felt really lucky, to be honest.
- [18:32]
A
Did your friends and family understand?
- [18:36]
C
No. And I actually. I'm the type of person that doesn't gloat or like just overshare. I was just like, this is my job. Like, please stop asking me questions. But everyone always had questions. And I just. I'm kind of like that. Yeah, I'm reserved. And I was like, you know, it's work. And I would just shut it down.
- [18:56]
A
What was it like? I mean, I was shocked even knowing what the intensity of Anna's office. That in the book, Andy can't answer a personal phone call and say a one word. Yes. Correct. Was that.
- [19:09]
C
I don't know if that's true, but that is not.
- [19:12]
A
But like, your parents wouldn't call you at work.
- [19:14]
C
Oh, absolutely not.
- [19:15]
A
And they knew that.
- [19:16]
C
Yes.
- [19:16]
A
And that's Pretty rare.
- [19:17]
C
Yes.
- [19:18]
A
That it's like the military.
- [19:20]
C
Yes. There was nothing personal. Nothing personal happened in there. Right. And I didn't ask his personal questions. I didn't ask the junior personal questions. It was like business was getting in at one time. Well, as the junior, I would have to be at the desk at 7:30.
- [19:36]
A
Okay.
- [19:36]
C
And she would call.
- [19:37]
B
Okay.
- [19:38]
A
And then in the evening you were leaving with the book.
- [19:41]
C
Sometimes until whatever time it was finished.
- [19:44]
A
Nine, ten.
- [19:45]
C
Yeah.
- [19:46]
A
And so then you moved to Sullivan street so you could be closer to the book drop off.
- [19:50]
B
That's.
- [19:51]
A
That's real commitment.
- [19:52]
C
I.
- [19:52]
A
Well, at first it's good for your sleep.
- [19:56]
C
HR told me that I had to be at work at 7:30 and I panicked because coming out of college, I don't even think I'd woken up before nine ever. So that made me nervous. And then realizing that I had to wait until this book was done, you know, before I got to go home.
- [20:14]
A
I'll just remind people what we mean by the book. We don't mean the devil.
- [20:18]
C
No, no. We mean it was a mockup of the magazine where basically they would paste in the stories from the front of the book, you know, center of the book, all the fashion stories in like a spiral ring. Yes. And it would mimic the magazine and Anna was able to remove pages and make changes. Or she would put post its posts.
- [20:41]
A
Yes.
- [20:41]
C
Lots of post it notes like, I don't like this. Kill this see me. Yeah, move this. Oh my God, so many see me's. So then I'd have to get the book. She would hand me the book when she came in the morning, go through all the see me's. Then I'd have to call and be like, anna wants to see you. And everyone would be like, roll their eyes behind the scenes. Like, oh, there's so many post its today. And by the end of the month, the post its kind of got smaller.
- [21:08]
A
It's true. You hope they winnow down.
- [21:12]
C
And they do.
- [21:13]
A
Yeah.
- [21:13]
C
Yeah.
- [21:16]
A
The run through will be back in a moment. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford.
- [21:35]
C
And I'm John Ross.
- [21:36]
A
And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done for now doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts, We are obviously here because I reached out because I'd heard over the years, oh, you know the real Emily was maybe Leslie, maybe Jill. Kate Young was in Anna's office around that time, but we'd never met, and I never talked to you directly. So we're doing a event for a book club on Monday, and we're having a conversation afterward. And I was like, it'd be fun to have anyone who has a suggestion of who Emily might be. And Plum Sykes is like, her daughters think she's the Emily. She's definitely not, which she's now debunked. But then we spoke on the phone, and you very sort of frankly said, well, it's not really up for discussion. I hired Lauren, and we sat across from each other for eight months. Have you ever talked about this before?
- [22:56]
C
No, I haven't.
- [23:00]
A
Do you feel confidently that you are the real Emily?
- [23:03]
C
No. I know I am. Yes. Correct. I am Emily.
- [23:09]
A
I have to say, this has been, obviously, in different ways, but I'm fascinated by memoirs in general and how your own story is always someone else's story, too. And that's something I've, you know, struggled with. I've done nonfiction writing, and I just have never felt comfortable publishing it. Because you're worried about other people in your life. And so I do think that most memoir writers and fiction writers, because most fiction is based on something, it's a difficult needle to thread. And I wonder, when was the first time you heard about this book?
- [23:45]
C
So I was actually working for Tawny Goodman at the time I had left
- [23:49]
A
Anna's office, who was Vogue's fashion director at the time.
- [23:52]
C
Yes. So I had expressed interest to Anna that I wanted to work in the fashion department and that I really wanted to work on set. And she told me that she couldn't give me the job, but she would allow me to interview for it. So I interviewed with Tani and ended up moving into the fashion department. Cut to. I'm in Tani's office that we shared at the time, and I get a call from Anna's office saying that she wanted to see me. And my heart sunk. I was like, she never would call in an assistant into her office. So I was very taken back by that. So then I went into her office, and she said, who's Lauren Weisberger? And I said, she was your junior assistant. You know, she was only here for a short period of time, maybe eight months. And she's like, well, she wrote a book about us, and you're worse than me. And I was like, I wanted to ask more questions, but you can't really ask her that many questions. And I was like, okay. And she's like, well, I received the galley, which is like, a book before it's published. And she let me read. Was actually quite mean, the galley. And I think, obviously an editor came in and really softened it and made it.
- [25:18]
A
In what ways do you remember?
- [25:21]
C
I don't remember exactly, but everyone just wasn't. There wasn't this, like, lightness to it. It felt quite. I remember thinking. And I found that quite hurtful. I think what got put into the world is a much lighter, nicer version of what she actually wrote. So I think that's what kind of lives in my mind, because that's what ended up being put out there. But I remember feeling like it was a betrayal at the time. You know, people weren't, like, very public about their jobs, and everything was not secretive, but, like, you just didn't talk about it. And it was like. It just felt like this exposure, even though someone obviously advised her to make it fiction. It was really based off of a lot of things that, you know, I lived, she lived.
- [26:14]
A
Did you recognize things you had said?
- [26:16]
C
Definitely, yeah. I definitely told her a million girls would kill for the job.
- [26:22]
A
That was your line.
- [26:23]
C
That was definitely my line. Cause I actually really believed that. And I knew that she didn't necessarily want to be there.
- [26:33]
A
I'm just curious. When Anna gave you the galley, did you, like, take it immediately into the hallway and start reading? I think that's probably what I would do. Did you wait till you got home?
- [26:43]
C
Yeah, I waited till I got home. I think we were really busy. Like, Tani was probably packing up for a big photo shoot. And I was like, oh, my God, what is this thing gonna say?
- [26:53]
A
But immediately you knew that it was gonna be about your time with Lauren. Can you describe your process of hiring Lauren or how you knew that you were the Emily character she describes in the book?
- [27:06]
C
I mean, to be honest, Lauren didn't really socialize with anyone else. So I think her experience at Vogue was really with me and with Anna. You know, you're quite busy in the office, so you don't really have much time to. You have to make an effort to make friends outside the office, which I did. But you're just really busy. And I think she also had a learning curve. Cause she just graduated from college, and I had to teach her all of these things. And she didn't really know who anyone was either. And I could relate to that. And I remember. I mean, we had a nice conversation when I interviewed her. And she is very smart and. And She. I just felt like she would be able to get it quickly.
- [27:51]
A
Was it true that she was open that she wanted to work at the New Yorker? And.
- [27:55]
C
Yes, she. She didn't tell me that, but she told the managing editor at the time that she really wanted to be a writer. And I recall her taking a writing test and, you know, things didn't necessarily go her way, and they suggested that she take this. And I think the story that I was told was that this teacher or, you know, this course kind of said, write what you know. And I think, you know, as the story goes, that's where it started. Her and I never talked about it, and we never talked again after she left.
- [28:34]
A
You've never seen her?
- [28:35]
C
No.
- [28:35]
A
In 20 years?
- [28:36]
C
No.
- [28:37]
A
Wow. Mm. Mm. What do you think it would be like if you guys reunited?
- [28:42]
C
I think it would be very awkward, I think. I mean, I don't hold a grudge towards her, but it's just. It became something that I don't think she knew that I knew. And so I think it would just. There's nothing to be said.
- [29:03]
A
What is similar to the book in the. And obviously now we associate so much the Andy Sachs character with the movie, but was she a fish out of water in as extreme a way as she presents it?
- [29:18]
C
Yes, I do think she was. I believe I recall she had just graduated from Cornell. She took pride in that and felt like maybe getting coffee and, you know, hamburgers and mashed potatoes was like. Just felt like she had just invested all this time in her education. I came from Canada. I couldn't really relate to that IV mentality, but I think she just felt like the tasks at hand were below her.
- [29:51]
A
Did Anna eat hamburgers and mashed potatoes?
- [29:54]
C
Yes.
- [29:55]
A
Wow.
- [29:56]
C
From the Royalton, I think, was a hotel.
- [29:58]
A
That sounds right.
- [29:59]
C
Yeah.
- [29:59]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:59]
C
Either a steak or a hamburger. Really rare.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah.
- [30:03]
C
Baked potato, mashed potatoes.
- [30:04]
A
Yeah.
- [30:05]
C
That was like the diet at the time. Wow. Yeah.
- [30:09]
A
What do you remember being the hardest learning curve for her?
- [30:13]
C
For me, the driving force, and I can only speak for myself, was that I really loved fashion and wanted my career long term to be in fashion. I loved the photo shoots. I love photography. I love clothes. I love the art of it. And I think for her, the end game was different. I think she wanted to be a writer. Um, not that she couldn't get things out of that experience that would help a writing career. Obviously she did. Um, but I think the fashion part of it just was. Did not interest her.
- [30:44]
A
Right. I want to do a little fact versus fiction, because a Lot of us at Vogue, when we were talking about picking this book as our next book club, realized that no one had read the book. We'd all just seen the movie.
- [30:56]
C
Okay.
- [30:56]
A
Um, and reading it, it's sort of fascinating to hear about what it was like working at Vogue in the early aughts, but also wondering what was actually true and what she sort of largely fictionalized.
- [31:09]
C
Okay.
- [31:10]
A
So I do think it's amazing that one of the most infamous lines in the movie. Not everyone was saying it, just you were saying it.
- [31:17]
C
I think I definitely said it.
- [31:19]
A
Something I would say, which is, a million women would kill for this job. So, girls. Yes. And earlier this month, when I interviewed some of Anna's more recent assistants, we were talking about how the gird. Your loins moment really was quite similar. Can you describe what it was like when Anna would arrive?
- [31:41]
C
Oh, my God, it was such panic. Well, but you had to hide it.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah.
- [31:46]
C
And I think over time, it went away. Like, I wouldn't. I wasn't afraid of her by the end, but at the beginning, I definitely was. And I'm sure Lauren felt. You know, I can't speak for her, but I'm sure she felt nervous when she would arrive. So she would arrive all of the newspapers, you know, the Times, Washington Post, the New York Post, the Daily Mail. Every newspaper had to be kind of laid out in a fan.
- [32:15]
A
And when would she actually read those?
- [32:17]
C
Oh, she would. She would sit there and go through all of them. I don't know, you know, front to back. But she would definitely read the front pages. The interesting story. She was definitely, you know, kept up on current affairs.
- [32:30]
A
And when she was arriving, would you switch shoes? Would you change? What was. What was that?
- [32:36]
C
I always had Birkenstocks under my desk. I would put on heels when she arrived. She definitely caught me a few times. Like, she would call me from the elevator bank and be like, I forgot. Can you bring it? And I'd already changed my shoes, and I would, like, run out with her, whatever she forgot, and she would, like, not even look at me and, like, be looking at my feet, you know, so she. I think she knew that I would do that. So that is true. You can't. Actually. I don't know if I would survive all day in heels.
- [33:09]
A
It's so hard.
- [33:11]
C
Yeah. So I couldn't. And there's a lot of running around and, you know, if she's not there, like, I just wanted to be comfortable.
- [33:18]
A
Yeah.
- [33:18]
C
So I definitely. Oh, I have a million pairs of Birkenstocks. I have Every color.
- [33:24]
A
Wow.
- [33:25]
C
Yeah.
- [33:25]
A
Okay. So that's been a consistent wardrobe staple.
- [33:28]
C
Yes. I've even been in Birkenstock ads. Moving forward. I have a long relationship with Birkenstock. I love. I'm very passionate about Birkenstock.
- [33:36]
A
I mean, many people are.
- [33:37]
C
Yeah.
- [33:39]
A
I want to know, did you ever go to Paris with Anna?
- [33:44]
C
No. Anna did not travel with her assistants. That is fiction. Vogue has. Or. I don't know if they still do. Had a Paris office, and there was a woman in the Paris office that would assist Anna when she was there. Her name was Fiona.
- [34:01]
A
Fiona's still there.
- [34:02]
C
Oh, really? So, yes, Fiona would help on the Europe side.
- [34:10]
A
One of the big plot points in the book and the movie is that Andy gets to go to Paris instead of Emily, and it's this great betrayal of Emily. Was there ever a situation like that where.
- [34:23]
C
No.
- [34:24]
A
Okay.
- [34:24]
C
Yeah. I think the fiction part of the book is that this character turns into this superstar, and I did not witness that. And I think this idea that the Emily character is not very pleasant or nice or seems high strung is because I probably was not very nice. And I probably was high strung because I felt like I was having to do her job as well. So for me, that was really frustrating. I think she was probably just sitting there writing a book and not necessarily taking the job as seriously as I did or, you know, 100 million girls would. So I think that that probably created some tension in the office where maybe I would snap at her or, you know, she just didn't want to play the game.
- [35:25]
A
Yeah.
- [35:26]
C
Yeah.
- [35:27]
A
Were there rules you passed down to her and rules that Jill passed down to you? And were some of those rules not actually from Anna?
- [35:36]
C
I don't think any of the rules are actually from Anna, to be honest. There were rules that were passed down to me that were like, I couldn't eat at my desk. You couldn't go to the bathroom unless one of the assistants had to be there at all times. So if you have to ask the senior assistant, like, if you could go use the restroom. Her checks were all typed out on a typewriter. Even at the time, we had these messenger slips. I'm sure it's all digital now, but you'd have to fill them out. Like, if you. If I needed something sent to her house or picked up, we had to type them on a typewriter.
- [36:13]
A
Oh, you couldn't write it.
- [36:14]
C
We couldn't write it. So. And everything that came out of her office had to, like, be very presentable. Jill leaves. I go into the SEC into the first seat, and I'm like, this is all a huge waste of time. Like, why am I sitting here on a typewriter typing this thing? I can write it in five minutes. So I just started writing them. And Anna never said anything. She didn't care. I don't think she noticed, you know.
- [36:39]
A
Did you start eating at your desk?
- [36:41]
C
Yes, I think I started eating. Maybe not something that was very fragrant, but I definitely ate much more than drinking a smoothie behind my computer's approach, which was what I was told was allowed.
- [36:57]
A
You were never on a diet where when you felt faint, you'd eat?
- [37:01]
C
No, I. I probably did when I was the junior because I was told that I wasn't allowed to eat at my desk and I had to sit there all day. I wasn't allowed to leave. But when I moved into the role, when the book was kind of came into life, I ate.
- [37:19]
A
That's so funny. I want to know, is the. The dry cleaning and laundry situation the same as the book?
- [37:27]
C
No, it was just dry cleaning. Yeah, she would bring in her dry cleaning and we would separate. The dry cleaning, you know, couture would go to Madame Paulette's and the regular dry cleaning would go somewhere else. And the senior assistant at the time would also do the expenses. So that was all something that we had to keep track of. And. Yeah, that is true.
- [37:54]
A
What about the Harry Potter manuscript?
- [37:59]
C
I don't recall. I would have to fact check that. The timing of when Harry Potter came out, I definitely. There were definitely requests that were like that about getting things, you know, that weren't available.
- [38:14]
A
So we already talked a little bit about when Anna called you in. You got the galley, you read it. What was the. How did that percolate around the office and what was the vibe? I don't.
- [38:25]
C
I don't remember if it was gossiped about. Like, I don't know if I'm not the type of person that would, you know, run around and be like, oh, my God, there's a book coming out. I think I kind of kept it to myself. So I'm not really sure who was in the inner circles of knowing that that was happening.
- [38:42]
A
So you read the galley and you thought, I obviously I see myself in this because this was my role. Yeah, but what did you recognize and what upset you as being not accurate?
- [38:54]
C
I think. I mean, I knew it was me. You know, Lauren and I had spent these eight months together. It's a really intense relationship. You know, you're working together from 7:30 in the morning till 7:30 at night and, you know, day in, day out. Obviously you're not working on the weekends, but it's possible that you would have to. So I think that relationship is really intense and you rely on each other, you know, in day to day life. So would I have considered her a friend? No. Like, I don't. We didn't necessarily socialize, but I think that that was also something that was taught to me. Like, Anna didn't really socialize with us. She wasn't like, asking us, like, how was your weekend? So I think in the office, that wasn't really a ritual for me to, like, talk to her, but I did meet her boyfriend and I did know personal things about her, and we definitely had a relationship. Obviously, I got frustrated with her, so I think that that's where the. That mean part in her perspective probably came from. But it definitely, to me at the time, felt like a betrayal. I was like, oh, my God, I spent so much time with this person.
- [40:13]
A
And she didn't give you a heads up?
- [40:15]
C
No.
- [40:17]
A
What was it like? You never ran into her after, but you did run into her boyfriend?
- [40:22]
C
Yeah.
- [40:22]
A
What was that interaction?
- [40:23]
C
Oh, my God. He was like, are you okay? Like, are you so pissed? And I was like. I came to terms with it too, because the book didn't. Wasn't as bad. So I was kind of just laughed it off. But it definitely stung, of course. Yeah.
- [40:43]
A
A few years later, the movie comes out. Yeah. How are you feeling about it then?
- [40:48]
C
I just can't believe it took, like, this life form that was gonna, like, live on. And I just remember thinking, like, oh, my God, I cannot believe now I have to deal with, like, a movie. You know, once the book, did people
- [41:01]
A
know you were Emily and did you sort of not want to share that with people so that. That wasn't your. You were Emily for the rest of your life?
- [41:08]
C
Well, I didn't realize it was like, that was gonna happen. I think people that knew me at the time, you know, that were in, like, you know, even PR or working at brands, like, they all knew that it was me, but it was fictionalized. So I was able mentally to, like, separate myself from it where I didn't feel like it was this horrible portrayal of me, per se, but it definitely, like, I went to see the movie and I enjoyed the movie, right. So I was able to, like, separate myself enough to, like, enjoy it.
- [41:44]
A
Why do you think the movie was different than the book?
- [41:49]
C
Cause I think there's this fantasy element added to it where to me, it was this was my real life, and I was, like, living it. And I was stressed or I was, you know, tired or I was. I made a mistake or, you know, I value. I was, you know, I needed a paycheck. You know, whatever it was, to me, it was real. But in the movie, it just. It felt more of a fantasy of what, like, this perception of the fashion industry is. So that allowed me to enjoy it. It's hard for me to kind of explain or distinguish. I don't know.
- [42:27]
A
To me, the movie is. There's a joy to it, it's optimistic. It feels relatable to anyone who's starting out in their career. Whereas the book felt very specifically about one experience.
- [42:42]
C
Yeah, Yeah, I agree. I think the editors did a fantastic job in adding this element of Hollywood and, you know, mass and all of those things to get people to go and see it.
- [42:55]
A
Yeah.
- [42:56]
C
Cause at the time, I think people also would turn their noses to fashion or, you know, it wasn't this, like, thing that accepted everybody. It wasn't inclusive. So I think the movie made it a little bit more inclusive and romanticized it and all of these things that made it entertainment. But at the end of the day, it was still, like, my life. So it was. It was hard to decipher.
- [43:22]
A
Was there ever a real life version of the cerulean blue sweater moment where either Lauren was. Sort of Explained the magnitude of the fashion industry, or you felt like you understood how big an ecosystem this was?
- [43:39]
C
Yeah. I think I was always trying to remind her that this was something to take seriously, or I took it seriously. And she really didn't. So that really frustrated me. I was like, this is a huge international business. This is like an art form to lots of people. People get dressed every day as an expression of, like, who they are. And to me, that was like, I took that seriously. Even though, you know, obviously I know I'm not curing anything. It was important to me, and not being important to her just really irked me.
- [44:17]
A
We found an old Gawker piece, okay. That referenced a July 2006 Page Six article. That's the title is, Leslie Freemar Haunts Lauren Weisberger's Dreams.
- [44:30]
C
Oh, my God. Okay.
- [44:32]
A
And it speculates that you're the real Emily.
- [44:34]
C
Okay.
- [44:34]
A
And people in the comments said that they found your Friendster account, that you seem nice, and they wondered if you were British like Emily Blunt. Did you ever see this?
- [44:42]
C
I think someone showed me at the Post. The Post at the time would do blind items, I guess.
- [44:47]
A
Yeah.
- [44:48]
C
So I felt embarrassed, but also like it could go away.
- [44:54]
A
Yeah.
- [44:54]
C
You know, at that time, too, today's news was, you know, yesterday's trash. You know, it didn't live on quite like it felt like it does today.
- [45:04]
A
Fish wrap.
- [45:04]
C
Yeah. So it could, like, you know, I could move on quicker.
- [45:09]
A
It's true, if that makes sense. It's not on the Internet forever.
- [45:12]
C
Right, Right.
- [45:13]
A
It's a different thing.
- [45:14]
C
Yeah. It felt like it could be thrown out and, like, people aren't looking at yesterday's paper. We're only looking at it today. Yeah. So living in the moment felt more true then. It didn't, like, follow me as much as it would today, probably.
- [45:28]
A
Have you ever wanted to? I mean, you've been so discreet about this for two decades, which I think is a testament to, you know, your respect for this role and for Anna and Vogue. But have you had complicated feelings when people say that they're the real Emily or talk about it? I know Plum Sykes wrote a very funny article about how her daughter's are convinced she's the real Emily, and she sort of debunked that, but circuitously. What has that experience been like for you?
- [45:57]
C
Well, I think obviously Anna's had many assistants, and I'm not the only one. So I think all of those people have a shared experience working for her and have their own experiences. But this very specific time in history and this happening happened to me. Like, when we spoke, I was like, I'm happy to come on your panel, but it will be quite clear very quickly that it was me. So I don't wanna make Kate uncomfortable. I don't wanna make Plum uncomfortable. Like, I can kind of go along with the. With, you know, the lightness of it.
- [46:30]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:31]
C
But it will become very clear quickly that it was me. And then I don't want us having a conversation with them. You know, I felt sensitive to that, of course. And it's weird, like, having a movie come out 20 years later and then all of a sudden it's back. You know, obviously I've moved past it all and I still work in the business and I'm able to kind of laugh it off, but now it feels like yesterday somehow.
- [46:56]
A
Is that why talk about it now, 20 years later?
- [47:00]
C
Yeah, I'm just like, you know what? There's all this speculation. Everyone really enjoyed the movie. Anna's clearly embracing it.
- [47:09]
A
Yeah.
- [47:10]
C
And so why not, you know, just put it out there? And I'm not really worried about the repercussions. Like, everyone has something to say. That stuff doesn't really bother Me?
- [47:21]
A
Yeah.
- [47:22]
C
But it just felt like there was this curiosity, and I was like, you know what? Here we go.
- [47:32]
A
Have you ever met Emily Blunt?
- [47:34]
C
I have. I have met Emily Blunt. I was really. I'm never excited to meet anyone, to be honest. And I was always like, if I meet Emily Blunt, what would I do? So one day I was getting a massage at the Greenwich Hotel, and she was actually at the spa herself. And I wanted to say something, and I didn't. So I let that moment pass me. And then a client of mine invited me over for dinner to her house, and there was like, seven people there, and Emily was there. So I was like, this is so intimate and personal, and we're at a mutual friend's house. And so I said to her, I was like, I just need to let you know, I'm Emily. She was not that interested, to be honest. I was like, I thought I was gonna get this, like, huge reaction. Like, no, it was like, oh, okay. So that was that.
- [48:38]
A
The run through will be back in a moment.
- [48:51]
C
If group chats had a podcast, it would sound exactly like this. Unfiltered beauty secrets, wellness trends we actually
- [48:58]
A
try, and the kind of real talk you won't find on Instagram or anywhere else.
- [49:01]
C
From celeb confessions to life's messy moments. Nothing's off limits. I'm Molly Sims, founder, actress, model, producer, and now your text or audio bff. And I'm Emma Sha Gormley. We're in this together, ladies. Join us every week for lip sync on the rim.
- [49:23]
A
Was there anything, you know, I think people focus on, is Anna really like Miranda Priestley? But are there any stories of ways Anna would surprise people by things she did?
- [49:38]
C
Oh, listen, I want to firstly say that Anna is my mentor through and through. I learned everything that I know from Anna. I would actually give her full credit for the way that my life turned out. And I'm very happy with how my life turned out. So I'm very grateful to Anna. I think a lot of that, like, the way she ran her office without it feeling personal. I still do that to this day. I think that that's a really efficient way of working and it's able to keep boundaries. And when the personal kind of invades the professional, it becomes a little bit messier. And I respected her process of that.
- [50:21]
A
There was a story that I thought was very touching about Anna finding you crying one day. Yes.
- [50:28]
C
Yes.
- [50:28]
A
Can you tell me about that?
- [50:30]
C
So I had just gotten a call from hr, and they had informed me that my work visa from Canada was coming up for renewal and that the company had a new policy that they were not gonna sponsor international employees and that they were not gonna extend my working contract. And I was hysterical. It was just, like my life just, like, flashed before me. Like, I have to move home. Like, I have a life here. I have a job. Like, I didn't understand. I was hysterical. And I didn't know what was going on, but I didn't know that Anna was coming in, because I was just kind of really emotional. And she walked in, and I was crying, and I didn't know that she was coming in. And she looked at me, and it made her uncomfortable. And she didn't say anything and walked into her office, and I was embarrassed and couldn't stop crying, though, because, like, I just. My life just basically blew up in my eyes. And then she waited a few minutes, and then she called me into the office, and she's like, it's horrible that I do her voice, but she's like, leslie, why are you crying? And I was like, well, I just got this call from hr, and they let me know that, unfortunately, they're not gonna extend my working papers, and there's a new policy through the company that you're just not sponsoring anymore. And she goes, just stop crying. And I was like, okay. So I leave the office, and then she calls Sy Neuhaus at the time and asked him to come to her office. And he walks in, and he's like, the cutest little old man, and he just, like, is always wearing the same, like, sweatshirt. I just remember so clearly. And she's like, sigh, and the doors are open so I can hear everything. And she's like, you need to make my assistant stop crying. HR just told her that she no longer has a job and you need to get her a visa. And he was like, okay, done. And she got me.
- [52:43]
A
And you're still here.
- [52:44]
C
Yeah, and I am still here. She got me my papers.
- [52:48]
A
I love that.
- [52:48]
C
Yeah. But there was no, like, I just, like, wanted to hug her and be like, thank you so much. But, like, I think she just knew how grateful I was, and there was no exchange of how grateful I was. She just. We didn't have that relationship, but I hope. And if she's listening how grateful I was to her.
- [53:09]
A
You moved from Anna's office to working for Tawny as her styling assistant. How long did you work for Tahnee?
- [53:15]
C
Three years. And then I went to work at Prada.
- [53:20]
A
Oh, okay.
- [53:22]
C
So when the book came out, the Devil Wears Prada, I was Actually at Prada. Oh, my God.
- [53:28]
A
I didn't know that.
- [53:29]
C
And Anna's like, I'm worse. You know, like, it was the whole thing. You can't make it up. Yeah. So I did the VIP department at Prada for a really short time, and I met Salma Hayek when I was there, and she hired me freelance, so I left.
- [53:46]
A
Okay, so you started from there.
- [53:51]
C
Yes.
- [53:51]
A
When you. You came back to Vogue recently.
- [53:54]
C
Yes.
- [53:55]
A
For a very special shoot.
- [53:56]
C
Yes.
- [53:56]
A
Can you tell me about that?
- [53:58]
C
So. Oh, my God. This is a crazy story. So I was literally in the middle of nowhere, upstate with my kids, and they were learning to ride dirt bikes with some man, like, in a field. And my agent calls me and was like, anna Wintour wants to speak to you. Can you take the call? And I was like, no. I'm like, my pajama's, like, in the middle of nowhere. This man is, like, yelling at me. My kids are, like, falling off bikes. And I was like, I cannot. I can't right now. Just tell her I have no service. I had that panic kind of come back that I couldn't take the call. I was almost caught too off guard. And so then Virginia called me and was like, anna suggested you for this job to work with Kamala Harris, who
- [54:49]
A
was the voice for the campaign?
- [54:51]
C
Yes, for the campaign.
- [54:52]
A
The presidential campaign.
- [54:53]
C
The presidential campaign. She was looking for someone, so I was like, wow. She's like, you know, just take the meeting with the vice president and take it from there. See what happens. So I was like, okay. So I took the meeting, and the vice president and I, you know, had similar points of view on what needed to be done. And so I did that, and Anna got me that opportunity. And then she was shooting the COVID of Vogue, and Anna actually allowed me to style the COVID which was my first. I've been doing this for a really long time, you know, 20 years. And I'd never. I'd styled many international Vogue covers before, but never an American Vogue cover. And she let me do the COVID and that was my first American Vogue cover. And it was, like, to me, really a full circle moment. And, like, probably my proudest moment.
- [55:57]
A
It was the October 2024. It was a digital cover and also in print, but it first came out online, and it was right before the election. So it was a very powerful, important moment.
- [56:07]
C
Yeah. And the vice president also knew how important it was to me because I had shared that story with her. So it was just. I just felt really proud of that moment. And that will, like, kind of go down as my, you know, real something I'm really proud of in my career.
- [56:27]
A
Leslie, thank you so much. We are so grateful to you coming and I hope you enjoy the new movie.
- [56:34]
B
I know.
- [56:34]
C
Have you seen it?
- [56:35]
A
Yes.
- [56:36]
C
Oh, really?
- [56:36]
A
Is it coming on Monday?
- [56:37]
C
Yes, it's coming. I'm dying to see it.
- [56:39]
A
Okay, good. Hi, listeners. I just wanted to mention that we of course, reached out to Lauren Weisberger for comment on what we discussed with Leslie in this episode. She did not get back to us for comment. And that is it for the show this week. We will see you guys soon.
- [57:02]
C
The run through with Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Alex John Burns, with help from Emily Elias. The show is engineered by Bran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Bye. Comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical, insightful, profound, wide ranging. Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts. Thoughtful, exquisite, just, you know, real. From prx.