FINNEAS is Not Sentimental | PLUS Chioma Goes Callas Core

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue Episode: FINNEAS is Not Sentimental | PLUS Chioma Goes Callas Core
Release Date: October 24, 2024

The Run-Through with Vogue brings listeners into the vibrant world of Vogue through conversations with editors, creatives, and prominent cover stars. In this episode, Vogue hosts Chioma Nnadi and Chloe Malle engage with the multi-talented Finneas O'Connell (Finneas), a 10-time Grammy Award winner renowned for his production work with Billie Eilish and other major artists. Additionally, the episode delves into various fashion events, personal anecdotes from Vogue editors, and reflections on recent industry happenings.

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1. Welcoming Finneas and Discussing His New Album

[00:44] The episode opens with Chloe Mao introducing Finneas, highlighting his extensive collaborations with artists like Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Drake, and Rosalia. Finneas discusses his second solo album, For Crying out Loud, emphasizing its departure from his debut with a more collaborative and joyful creation process.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [17:29]: "A little bit, yeah. The previous album was just me alone in a room fighting for my life. And this album, I invited a room full of close friends and co-writers... it made the work better."

2. Recording Process and Creative Collaboration

Finneas elaborates on his recording process, contrasting his solitary work during the pandemic with his current collaborative approach. He explains how working with friends and co-writers enriched the album, making studio sessions more enjoyable and creatively fulfilling.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [18:00]: "The first week we did was like Monday through Friday in March... I kept it very loose and relaxed, and so we'd work until we ran out of steam every day."

3. Navigating Music Videos and On-Set Experiences

The conversation shifts to Finneas's experiences filming music videos. He expresses his discomfort with being on set, preferring the creative control of music production over the unpredictability of video shoots. Despite his reservations, Finneas praises the collaborative efforts with director Isaac Ravishankara.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [20:14]: "I hate being on set. It's slow and tedious... But Isaac Ravishankara, who made these videos, is super talented, and I was very grateful to work with him."

4. Personal Insights: Unsentimental Nature and Memory Management

Finneas shares a personal anecdote illustrating his unsentimental nature, recounting how he disposed of a commemorative chocolate bar after filming a movie at age 12. This trait extends to his minimalist approach to possessions, preferring not to accumulate memorabilia.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [31:12]: "In some ways I'm unsentimental enough that I feel sort of often like a kind of a guilt because sometimes you get little sort of tokens... it's the trash."

5. Fashion and Tour Preparation

The discussion transitions to Finneas's approach to fashion, especially in the context of his 30-city tour. He describes his minimalist wardrobe, emphasizing comfort and confidence on stage, while acknowledging the role of his stylist, Anton Schneider, in curating his looks.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [32:35]: "I wear like a white T-shirt and jeans and a jacket or two on rotation... Everything I'm wearing today was handed to me by my stylist, Anton."

6. Attending Prestigious Fashion Events

Finneas recounts his experiences attending the Met Gala, detailing his fashion choices and the pressures of being among top-tier designers and celebrities. He reflects on the honor of representing designers like Gucci and Givenchy, despite his discomfort with the spotlight.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [34:03]: "I'm always honored to attend. And it's a great party. It's really fun."

7. Scoring Apple TV's "Disclaimer"

Finneas discusses his venture into scoring for Apple TV's new show, Disclaimer. He describes the collaborative process with director Alfonso Cuarón and the challenges of composing for a visual medium, highlighting the learning experience and creative growth it provided.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [35:37]: "Scoring as a genre compared to making a pop album... it's gotta interact beautifully with dialogue."

8. Reflections on Liam Payne's Passing

The hosts touch upon the recent passing of Liam Payne, expressing sadness over the sensationalist media coverage. They emphasize the lack of respect in reporting the details surrounding his tragic death, noting its impact on the Vogue community.

Notable Quote:

Cho Menardi [14:35]: "I think the coverage of it was salacious in a way and sensationalist... it didn't need to be."

9. Closing Remarks and Highlights

The episode concludes with a recap of various fashion events, including the Armani Extravaganza and Prada sample sales. Finneas shares his enthusiasm for the ongoing For Crying out Loud tour and his favorite music podcasts, rounding off a comprehensive and engaging episode.

Notable Quote:

Finneas [42:04]: "Caroline is really a brilliant performer and addition to that song. And I love the original album too, obviously, but it's been really fun to re-experience this album on the remixes."

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Key Takeaways:

• Creative Evolution: Finneas's shift from solitary to collaborative album production showcases his adaptability and the benefits of creative partnerships.
• Minimalism in Life and Fashion: His unsentimental nature influences both his personal life and his approach to fashion, favoring simplicity and functionality.
• Navigating Public Life: Finneas balances his discomfort with being on set and in the limelight by focusing on his passion for music and supportive collaborations.
• Industry Reflections: The discussion on Liam Payne's passing highlights the need for respectful media practices within the entertainment industry.

This episode of The Run-Through with Vogue offers an insightful blend of music, fashion, and personal narratives, providing listeners with a multifaceted view of Finneas's artistic journey and the dynamic world of Vogue.

Transcript

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[Chloe Mao]

This is the run through. I'm Chloe Mao.

[Cho Menardi]

And I'm Cho Menardi.

[Chloe Mao]

And today we are joined by 10 time Grammy Award winner, producer and songwriter Finneas to discuss his new album For Crying out Loud with Vogue culture czar Chloe Shama and myself. Finneas is most well known for his production work, specifically co writing and producing music with his sister Billie Eilish. You may have heard of her, she is American Vogue's a November cover star. In addition to Billy, Finneas has collaborated with artists like Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Drake, Rosalia. Just a few, you know, small town names. And this is his second solo album and it has a very different vibe from his debut. I was very charmed by Finneas. He came into the studio, he was here in person with the Chloe's and you know what got me? We had three water glasses and he poured all three of us water. Chivalry's not dead. Phineas knows how to treat treat his guests. There was a profile of him written by Jen Wang in the November issue that Chloe edited and the COVID story of his sister, obviously written by Alessandra Codinha, which Chloe also edited. So she's well versed in the Eilish family at the moment and so it was fun to do it with her also, obviously. Personally I'm very invested in Phineas and Billie's sibling dogs because Shark Eilish was our top performing Doge cover star after Scout Walls.

[Finneas]

No way.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh yeah. Shark and Scout were neck and neck for most cliques. Choma, have you ever met Finneas?

[Cho Menardi]

I actually have. I sat next to Phineas and Billy at the Met and we had a really fun, fun time talking to them.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, Flex.

[Cho Menardi]

Sorry. Yeah, I remember because Billy was wearing that fab Simone Rochart piece. I think it was the Karl Lagerfeld met because I remember Billie telling me that she went up to Kristen Stewart and totally fangirled out.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting.

[Chloe Shama]

That's cute.

[Cho Menardi]

I'm really Fond of Billy especially. I mean, I interviewed her and Alessandro Michele once, many moons ago, when we had a virtual Forces of Fashion. And that was such a treat to sit in on their conversation, because Alessandro Michele, who is now the creative director of Valentino, creates these really deep relationships with the people who he considers his muses.

[Chloe Mao]

You are so good at this that you unwittingly just gave two excellent segues into the next thing I wanted to talk about.

[Cho Menardi]

I did.

[Chloe Mao]

One, you mentioned a virtual Forces of Fashion from back in the day. Two, you mentioned Alessandra Michele, who is speaking at the Rome Vogue Italia. Forces of Fashion. Your Forces of Fashion is this weekend also. They're both.

[Cho Menardi]

It is. I'm trembling.

[Chloe Mao]

Tell us everything. What are the dumpster fires of the moment?

[Cho Menardi]

No, no dumpster fires yet. But I'm. I'm just nervous. I want it to come off. Well, we have a really fantastic lineup. I'm so. I. I had a call with John Galliano and Gwendolyn Christie, and they both put their dogs on the Zoom, and it was fantastic.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God.

[Cho Menardi]

I don't know how we're going to keep the conversation to an hour on the day, because Bring the dog stories. Oh, my God. It was so. It was really special. And Gwendolyn is such a huge fashion fan and has. It's at Central Saint Martin's Central Saint Martin's is basically the best fashion school in the world. Sorry to trumpet my. My country's own horn, but it's the truth. And most of the sort of big designers you can think of from the UK and beyond have been through that school, including John Galliano and Stella McCartney, who I'll be interviewing on Saturday, which I'm really looking forward to.

[Chloe Mao]

Ooh, that's fun.

[Cho Menardi]

Yeah, yeah. And then we have our cover star. Saoirse Ronan will be there. Lena Dunham and Christopher Kane, who are really great friends, are going to be there.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God, that's so fun. But, yeah, last week was a big week in New York, I have to say, and everyone, I feel like, is sick afterward. I, like, had to leave the office yesterday to get, like, prescription Sudafed from this poor doctor who was like, yeah, you have a sinus infection. I don't know what to tell you. But, yeah, everyone, like, so it was the Victoria's Secret show on Tuesday, the Force of Fashion, and the CVF dinner on Wednesday, the Armani Extravaganza on Thursday, which was.

[Cho Menardi]

I heard about that.

[Chloe Mao]

Insane.

[Cho Menardi]

That sounded insane.

[Chloe Mao]

They took over the time. Park. Park Avenue Armory. It was black tie. They flew in hundreds of guests from around the world. Editors, influencers, celebrities. But it was also felt very much like a New York event. It was celebrating Armani's new building, which is condos, stores, restaurant. It's like Armani Disneyland. Mr. Armani came, and he took a bow. He's 90 years old. I'd never been to an Armani show myself, so I was an Armani vir. And what I thought was charming, and I always really like to see this at fashion shows, is when other designers fan other designers. Like, I love that Loewe that so many designers came to see what JW did this season in Paris. And what was nice about this was it felt very New York, but also very much an homage to Mr. Armani as a great designer. Willy Tiveria was there, Joseph Altazar was there. Like, all of the young American designers were there to sort of. And that was really touching and nice, but they transformed the Park Avenue Armory into, like, a train station. It sort of reminded me of Scorsese's movie where Chloe Moretz comes out of a clock. Hugo. But I don't know if that's what they were going for, but. And everyone was looking very glam in mostly, like, black and white, black tie, tons of armani around over 50 celebrities. Amanda Seyfried, Brie Larson, Orlando Bloom, Megan Faye, Steven Yoon. And then this week, there's a fun Gucci dinner with Debbie Harry. But more importantly, it is the battle of the sample sales. It is the Prada sample sale. And the row, oh, no, I'm missing it the same day. So I went to the Prada one, and. And I got a dress.

[Cho Menardi]

A dress? Is that it? You just got one?

[Chloe Mao]

I got a dress and a houndstooth skirt, but that was it. Okay, but the dress is. It's from, like, the 2020 cruise collection. It has jockeys all over it. And I'm not sure if it's a great sign that my first instinct was, ooh, this is perfect for my Ms. Frizzle costume for Halloween. Because I'm being Ms. Frizzle, and Alice is being the magic school bus.

[Cho Menardi]

Oh, my God.

[Chloe Mao]

So you'll be seeing that mew in your dress next Thursday. I heard reports from the rose sample sale that it was, like, editors fighting over Margot bags, Emma Stone, Zoe Kravitz. Like, it was. It was a real scene. But God bless. Big news also in New York right now is that the New York Liberty women's basketball team won their first championship.

[Cho Menardi]

Oh, that's so great.

[Chloe Mao]

And we here are all Big Liberty fans. And we're also obsessed with Ellie the elephant. And we actually had Ellie do a getting ready diary for one of the playoff games. And it was fab because Ellie, who knew, has two braiders who do her hair for an hour before every game to make sure her braids are tight and gonna last through all of her head flipping. She gets custom jewelry put on her trunk and her ears before every game. So that was a very exciting moment for us. Oh, and then this weekend, Shoma, there was a lot going on. It was the Academy Museum gala.

[Cho Menardi]

Oh, I saw that. A lot of vintage, right? A lot of great archival fashion, including Kaia Gerber that wore that. Fantastic. Yeah, that Alexander McQueen for Givenchy.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God. The Kaia Gerber dress I love. And Hannah Jackson did a really great piece on the history of the dress.

[Cho Menardi]

Tell me. I only know that it was one of Lee McQueen's haute couture Givenchy pieces. But you tell me more. I'd love to hear the story behind it.

[Chloe Mao]

Basically, it was a 1997 dress from Lee McQueen's Givenchy collection, which the connection there is that Sarah Burton obviously just took over at Givenchy coming from McQueen, and she and Kya have a close relationship. And Kya really wanted to honor her by wearing something from McQueen's old Givenchy. And the dress at the time was a reference to Audrey Hepburn's dress in My Fair lady at the ball scene. And actually Matthew Williams, when he was at Givenchy, did another version of that same dress for Kendall for the Met, but like a naked one. So it's been a dress that's been an inspiration throughout the Givenchy archives and periods. And I thought Kaia looked so gorge as ever. Who else did you like, Joma?

[Cho Menardi]

I mean, I always loved Greta Li, and I loved that Loewe collection. And she wore this feathered, kind of voluminous, printed, floral Loewe dress, which was exquisite.

[Chloe Mao]

It's interesting to see that Loewe collection getting so much red carpet time.

[Cho Menardi]

Yeah, Meg Ryan wore it, too.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, Meg Ryan and Gal Gadot Colman.

[Cho Menardi]

Domingo wore the Valentino and brought out the little kitty cat.

[Chloe Mao]

The kitty cat clutch.

[Cho Menardi]

Kitty cat clutch. That was on the Valentino Runway. Obviously Alessandro Michele's first collection for Valentino. So quite a kind of fashion. A big fashion nod to wear that on the red carpet. And then we saw those archival Mugler. You saw Kim and Kylie. But I do like the way the Genesisters. And when I say the genesisters, I mean Kendall and Kylie are leaning into this Hollywood Glam, the sort of big, wavy kind of roller curls. And I kind of. I kind of like that they're leaning into it. I think it works, especially on a. On a young girl, to wear something like that. I mean, a young girl. A young woman.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes. I just do. I did think that, you know, obviously the gala is to raise money for the Academy Museum Gala, which is about the history of film. And I felt that everyone really kept that in mind, and it was very much an old Hollywood. A celebration of classic Hollywood glamour in the way that people addressed it with fashion and glam choma. What did you do this week?

[Cho Menardi]

I did see Maria over the weekend.

[Chloe Mao]

Ooh, tell me.

[Cho Menardi]

Yeah. And Angelina Jolie came for the screening with Pablo Lauren. And there was a Q and A after the. After the screening. And then I went to say hi to Angelina because obviously I interviewed her once upon a time, and I wanted to catch up with her and just tell her how I thought the film was, which I did think was. Was beautiful. And honestly, the set design, the fashion, just, wow. Like, I'm just into Maria Carlos Kaur. Like, I just want to dress like that. But even the house, the clothes that she wore in the house was so considered. And her dressing room was the most beautiful dressing room that you've ever seen in life, really. Basically, they wanted her life to feel like a stage. So every kind of scene was designed that way. And every. I mean, that apartment. I just want to live in that apartment. Can I just live in that apartment? It was just so special. Anyway, that's my takeaway. And Angelina was fantastic.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, I'm so excited.

[Cho Menardi]

She spent months learning to sing. So a lot of the singing, the opera singing that you hear is her.

[Chloe Mao]

Which I was so impressed with.

[Cho Menardi]

And I didn't know that until the end, until we got to the Q and A that she trained, I think, for seven months. So there was a lot of work required for this role. And I think she's someone who really kind of is such a. She's such a student. She really gets into it. She's very. She wants to know things back to front. And she really threw herself into this role. So I think you should absolutely go see it.

[Finneas]

Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

Chelma, what are you. What TV shows are you watching and what are you reading?

[Cho Menardi]

I actually have been holding off on reading the new Sally Rooney, but I've read all of her books, and I. I love them all, so I. I think I'm going to. And my colleagues have all been reading it and loved it. Have you read Intermezzo?

[Chloe Mao]

No, I love Sally Rooney. I've read all of her books. I need a minute. I feel like they're too fast. I. Yeah, it's. I don't. I'm not like rushing to the bookstore for Intermezzo.

[Cho Menardi]

Yeah, I haven't got it yet. But I want to read Naina Cherry's autobiography too. That's on my list. And TV wise, there's a couple of things I haven't started, but I feel like I'm super behind on. I still haven't finished Industry.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm really excited about Jilly Cooper's Rivals. Apparently it's great.

[Cho Menardi]

Oh, that's what I want to watch. Oh, yeah, I've heard it's fantastic.

[Chloe Mao]

I know, me too. I've been watching the franchise, which is really fun, which is the Iannucci show about that, sort of a satire of superhero franchises and films and is really funny. And I love the main actress in it, Lolita Fope. And it's just. It's a fun Sunday night watch.

[Cho Menardi]

Last week also, I think we were really devastated to hear the news of Liam Payne's passing, who was a member of One Direction and very beloved here in the uk. And I think the way it's been reported has been quite difficult and quite. And I think the tabloids have not really have perhaps gone a little too far in the way they've covered this.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, fill me in. How have they covered it? Because I obviously haven't seen, obviously someone.

[Cho Menardi]

Who struggled with addiction and was quite open about it and, you know, that the circumstances of his passing were tragic. You know, he fell from a window, from a hotel balcony window. I just think that there was just no sense of decency around the way it was reported. I think they very much wanted to get in on all the details and it was unnecessary. When someone's died, it just felt too soon to be running stories about every single detail. There were many of the staffers who knew him here. I know he was very friendly with Edward, who used to edit British Vogue, Edward Endenfall. So I think it hit close to home, particularly in this office, from what I could tell. And it just felt like the coverage of it was salacious in a way and sensationalist in a way that it didn't need to be.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, that's so sad. Yeah. Okay, we are going to take a quick break and then back with our conversation with Phineas.

[Chloe Shama]

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[Chloe Mao]

Welcome to the run through with Vogue. So we are very excited to have you here, Joanna. One of our producers was telling us about going to your sold out show on Saturday and the fans were losing their minds. Was there a highlight of the evening for you?

[Finneas]

It was a great, super participatory crowd.

[Chloe Shama]

Okay.

[Finneas]

You know, clapping, clapping if you ask them to. Pretty rhythmic, good sing along experiences. It was really fun. Great audience.

[Interviewee]

What do you do if they're not rhythmic?

[Finneas]

Gently correct. Well, okay, so if I. I'll usually try to get a clap going right. On the twos and the fours at some point.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Finneas]

And if they're not rhythmic, that's. That's the one of the show.

[Interviewee]

That's the only.

[Finneas]

That's right. That's right.

[Chloe Shama]

I love that you played at the Warsaw, which is like an old school. Greenpoint. Used to be a Polish social club, but it's a fairly intimate venue. How did you decide?

[Finneas]

It's really fun. I played there five years ago on a little mini tour that I did. Really one of the only tours I've done under my own name. And during this album release moment, I wanted to do small shows everywhere and I just love having everybody up close to me. It's really fun to just look out and actually see everybody.

[Interviewee]

We should say the album name. It is, for crying out loud. We're all really enjoying it. Well, it's quite different from your previous album, right?

[Finneas]

A little bit, yeah. The previous album was just me alone in a room fighting for my life. And this album, I invited a room full of close friends and co writers that I've gotten to know over the last couple years to participate with me. And first of all, it made it much more fun for me to be in the studio every day. I had all this company and second of all, they had great ideas and it made the work better, I think.

[Interviewee]

Do you want to tell us a little bit more about the typical day when you were recording this? I think I read that you. It was done in quite a short window of time.

[Finneas]

Yeah, it was short and sweet. The first week we did was like Monday through Friday in March. We'd start at like noon maybe one. And I work out of a studio in a neighborhood on the east side of la. It's like a big sort of barn space, bunch of windows, smells like a lolabo in there. It's very different than maybe like going to a storied old recording studio where it Smells like mold and cigarettes. And there's no daylight. I think studios sometimes have a kind of a casino vibe. No clocks, no windows. Yeah, that's not my. I don't like that at all. I like to be in there in the afternoon, and it starts to get dark, and we're done. Oh, wow.

[Chloe Shama]

Okay.

[Finneas]

Yeah. I mean, there are days where you have to work a long day to get the thing done, and there's a deadline. But in the making of this album, I kept it very loose and relaxed, and so we'd work until we ran out of steam every day. And then sometimes we'd go get dinner together, sometimes we wouldn't, but we kept it really loose.

[Interviewee]

Do you think this is your new process now, a more collaborative one, or do you think you'll ever go back to doing kind of more solo style?

[Finneas]

I think it'll make it. Yeah. It'll depend on where my head's at. I mean, I think the primary reason was that I hadn't done it before, so it was to shake things up and try something different. So now I've done it, and I would definitely like to do it again. It was really fun. But I also, now, on the other side of it, may want to go back and make an album alone for the same reason.

[Interviewee]

What's the virtue of doing an album alone versus with other people? If you had to sum it up.

[Finneas]

I suppose other than the kind of. To me, what felt like, you know, semi necessity. I made the last album during the pandemic where I wasn't really seeing anybody. I think the benefit of making an album totally alone might be a kind of a bareness that would be harder to accomplish with a room full of people. The example I'd give is, like, I played in bands in high school, and I'd write a ballad, and then I think, well, I have a drummer. Like, there better be a drum part for this song. You know what I mean?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Finneas]

And so if I'm alone in a room, there doesn't have to be any drum part. There's no drummer. So I think they're both sort of their own separate version of that. Like, do you want it or don't you?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Finneas]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

We also wanted to talk a little bit about the music videos, which we found.

[Chloe Shama]

I love the music video.

[Interviewee]

Entertaining.

[Finneas]

That's very kind of you. I really like those videos, too.

[Chloe Shama]

Oh, my God. Was it so much fun to do?

[Finneas]

I hate being on set. Okay. I, first of all, don't feel very good at. At doing it. And it's slow and tedious. And there's, like, a million things going wrong all the time. It's like a stressful time.

[Chloe Shama]

More so than recording an album.

[Finneas]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Recording an album, in many ways, is, like, the thing that I feel sort of the most comfortable doing.

[Chloe Shama]

Okay.

[Finneas]

Being on set, there's so many people all working sort of harder than you. If you're the actor, so to speak, in it, you're, like, waiting for them to get the lights right and waiting for them to get the background right and waiting for them to get, you know, the camera angle right. And then you get there, and then maybe you mess up your line or you mess up your lip syncing and you feel all bad about it. So I have a terrible time shooting, But Isaac Ravishankara, who made these videos, super talented, and I was very grateful to be working with him on the whole. I did all three. I did Cleats, for crying out loud, and Lotus Eater, all with him. And I love digging into a collaborative.

[Chloe Shama]

Relationship for people who haven't seen the music video yet. The video, for crying out loud, is various Ways that Phineas Dies in front of your.

[Finneas]

In front of my real. My real life and fake girlfriend Claudia. Yeah, correct.

[Chloe Mao]

Was that.

[Chloe Shama]

Were you doing your own stunts? Did you feel like you were doing a mini horror film? Was it terrifying to be faced with your immortality over and over again?

[Finneas]

No. I mean, I have such a detachment because it's me, you know? But, yeah, I did hear from my sister and my mom, like, that was a tough video to watch. Nobody wants to watch you get hit by a car or fall down an elevator shaft. So I have empathy, but because it's me, I'm not looking at it being like, oh, my God. Yeah.

[Chloe Shama]

Is there an action hero that you were inspired by, like, Daniel Craig or Tom Cruise doing your stunts?

[Finneas]

No. I mean, you know, the elevator shaft was like cgi. We did, like, a scan of my clothing.

[Chloe Shama]

Okay.

[Finneas]

I stood in a hotel room and scanned myself, and then they put it on like a rag doll dummy in a FX program that one of the, you know, effects guys ran and then put my clothes on it, and we ragdolled this little dummy down an elevator shaft. It's very cool. I thought it looked really good.

[Chloe Shama]

It does look good.

[Finneas]

Yeah.

[Chloe Shama]

And I love that Claudia got a standing ovation, sort of cheering at the.

[Finneas]

At the show the other day.

[Chloe Shama]

At the show on Saturday.

[Finneas]

Yeah. That was so cute. That's so cute. She was up on the balcony, and I think after the show ended, the lights all came up. She Was spotted and I think maybe like a chant started or something.

[Chloe Shama]

Yeah, Claudia, Claudia.

[Finneas]

But I've always felt that way. Especially like growing up. Anytime I was really into a band or a actor or something, like, I would become very invested in my parasocial relationship with them. And I'd be a fan of their real life. I'd be a fan of their wife or husband and their whole thing. So I find it cute that kids are similar.

[Chloe Shama]

Well, especially with her in the video. Is she always gonna star with you?

[Finneas]

That was a kind of a funny. Like, I just saw Sabrina talk about having Barry Keoghan in the Please, Please, Please video the other day where she was like, I just thought, oh, who's the best actor I could find? And he was right nearby. Which is a really funny thing of her to say. Yeah, I think Claudia is a really good actor. And the pitch comes through for the idea and I'm like, oh, thank God I can have a person I already feel super comfortable with.

[Chloe Shama]

Is it weird to be fighting in a video with Claudia and then Faye.

[Chloe Mao]

Dying in front of her?

[Chloe Shama]

Did you channel any. Was there method acting where you were channeling real fights?

[Finneas]

No, I mean, the method acting maybe of that video day was like, I was in a bad mood during that shoot as I am during most shoots. And again, I'm not yelling at anybody, but I'm sitting there kind of bummed out in the corner. And Claudia, by contrast, is a really good actor and loves to be on set and is generous with her energy to everybody. So I think the on set vibe reflected that of. I mean, the album cover is a still photo of a moment on set of me looking off in the middle distance holding Claudia's hand. And that's pretty reflected. So I suppose, you know, maybe shy of being method, it probably all stems from insecurity. I just don't think I'm that like, good at being in a video. So I think it's just kind of that. I think when you feel insecure about something. Like I see that with people with social anxiety, people look miserable to be at a party. And I think it's just cause they think they're not good at meeting a new person or something like that. So that's what I notice about myself. The time I'm the most eager to leave is whenever I feel like out of my depth. Yeah.

[Chloe Shama]

What happens when you go on tour for a 30 city tour?

[Chloe Mao]

Are you.

[Chloe Shama]

How do you keep in touch with everyone? What is your routine?

[Finneas]

One of the cheat codes I've employed on this Run is that I'm bringing most of my closest friends to play in my band. So fun. And yeah, if I weren't doing that, as I haven't in the past, that is the thing that you miss. You miss all your friends. And the trade off is you get to play these exciting shows and travel and those are fun things. But you do miss your friends. But I had this night after the show in the Warsaw where I was out at a bar with my friends and Claudia was there. I had this feeling of kind of calm, of like, oh, everybody back home is here. Like it was kind of a thrill. Yeah. So that's kind of a hack.

[Chloe Shama]

What's like the way of staying sane when you're traveling that much? Like, what are you listening to on your headphones?

[Finneas]

Yeah, I'm a podcast guy. When I travel, I find those pretty easy to like, kind of listen to. And then maybe you drift off, doze off too. That's nice.

[Chloe Shama]

What podcast? Give us your top five.

[Finneas]

I listen to a lot of Armchair Expert. I listen to a lot of Smart lists. I listen to a lot of Conan O'Brien. Needs a friend. If I want to feel depressed, I'll listen to the Daily.

[Chloe Shama]

Okay.

[Finneas]

Yeah. I often am like fresh off a daily episode and Claudia will call me or something from home and I'll be like, do you know about the water crisis in Arizona? She's like, yeah, actually. Cause she's a big daily listener too. And we have like a brief moment where we're like, what are we gonna do? Yeah. Which is, you know, state of the world. Right. What are we gonna do?

[Chloe Shama]

I'm Nomi Fry.

[Nomi Fry]

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm Alex Schwartz. And we are Critics at Large, A podcast from the New Yorker. Guys, what do we do on the show every week?

[Nomi Fry]

We look into the startling maw of our culture and try to figure something out.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right. We take something that's going on in the culture now. Maybe it's a movie, maybe it's a book, maybe it's just kind of a trend that we see floating in the.

[Chloe Shama]

Ether and we expand it across culture.

[Alex Schwartz]

As kind of a pattern or a template.

[Nomi Fry]

We talked about the midlife crisis, starting with a new book by Miranda July. But then we kind of ended up talking about Dante as an.

[Chloe Shama]

You know, we talked about Kate Middleton, her so called disappearance. And from that we moved into right wing conspiracy theories.

[Nomi Fry]

Alex basically promised to explain to me why everybody likes the Beatles.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You know, We've also noticed that advice is everywhere. Advice columns, advice giving and we kind of want to look at why. Join us on Critics at Large from the New Yorker. New episodes drop every Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alex Schwartz]

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[Interviewee]

Little bit about your songwriting process? Obviously you do a lot of production work as well. Work with your sister.

[Finneas]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

How does it begin and how do you decide what a Finneas song is versus something you're gonna work with another artist on?

[Finneas]

Yeah, what if Phineas song is used to be a certain subsect of material that I would write and feel like had enough of my DNA that I wasn't interested in giving it away to somebody else. And I would say that the predominant change there is that now Billie and I write everything in tandem for her. So, like there aren't cuts on Hit Me Hard and soft that are just me. I might have a little moment of a thing and then bring it into her. But we really sit together like we all are in this room and we, you know, we come up with whole songs together. So those songs wouldn't then go on my record and I wouldn't bring in a song of mine to give her because we're writing it all together and it's pretty similar artist to artist. I feel like most of the time I'm in a room with an artist writing for an artist, with the exceptions of like, Benny and I wrote that song Lonely for Justin Bieber and gave it to him, but we still wrote it about Him. I wasn't writing from my own experiences and then giving it to him. Yeah. When it comes to my own stuff, I mean, I love the act of creating stuff. So if I have a guitar or a piano or something that I can be musical with, I'll sit and play and mumble and hum and come up with rhymes. And sometimes it's good and I put it in my back pocket and save it for later. And sometimes it's terrible and I let it. I catch and release. I just let it go.

[Interviewee]

Do you have a hard time letting things go when you've decided?

[Finneas]

I don't have a hard time letting anything go in my life.

[Interviewee]

Wow, Impressive.

[Finneas]

Deeply unsentimental. Happy to.

[Interviewee]

Does that come from any kind of philosophy or it's just like the way you are?

[Finneas]

I don't know. It's like something that was like pointed out to me by my dad. I had some. This is such a weird example, but I will give it as a story. I did this movie when I was like 12 called bad teacher. And as a rap gift, they gave everyone on the cast like a little cute custom chocolate bar. So they'd made these little commemorative chocolate bars. And I was very sad to be done with the movie just because it had been a really fun experience. And I was like, oh, that's, you know, oh, too bad it's over today. Whatever. And I unwrapped the chocolate bar and ate it and threw. Threw the wrapper. My dad was like, whoa, that's crazy. And I was like, what? He was like, that's just crazy to not save that thing.

[Interviewee]

So no storage units filled with memorabilia?

[Finneas]

No. Yeah. I mean, in some ways I'm unsentimental enough that I feel sort of often like a kind of a guilt because sometimes you get little sort of tokens or whatever throughout your life. Here's a little. Thanks for going on the museum tour. Here's a little bookmark or whatever. It's the trash. Yeah, I mean, but again, it's like, I don't want to contribute more waste. So I'm constantly pawning stuff off on my greedier friends. Cause it's not going to my house.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, well, good to have appreciative friends for that kind of thing.

[Chloe Shama]

How do you plan fashion for a 30 city tour?

[Finneas]

Oh my God.

[Chloe Shama]

How do you plan your outfits? Is this like a whole sort of mental map?

[Finneas]

Probably as a good parallel and segue from the unsentimental conversation?

[Chloe Mao]

Yes, exactly.

[Finneas]

Where about two or three different.

[Chloe Shama]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Finneas]

Outfits. I wear like a white T shirt and jeans and a jacket or two on rotation. Maybe I have like another pair of pants in case I get the jeans dirty or something like that. So I have like almost no clothing in my rotation of my life right now. I'm in a season of like, wanting to be kind of formal on stage. Like, that's the thing that makes me feel the most confident. Okay, so I have like a couple dress shirts and a couple like blazer pant combos. But again, as a guy, there's like a male privilege of like, a black suit is a black suit and you can wear it a thousand times. And nobody's like, same black suit again, like, nobody cares.

[Chloe Shama]

And just describing for listeners, you're wearing a very snazzy sort of tweed bomber jacket with a corduroy lapel.

[Finneas]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Where are you shopping?

[Chloe Shama]

Where is this, for example?

[Finneas]

Well, again, to out myself as the least hardworking, well dressed person. I have a stylist, Anton, whom I love. And, you know, I have opinions about clothing and I go, oh, I love these silhouettes and these whatever. But everything I'm wearing today was handed to me by my stylist, Anton, and I love the way it looks.

[Chloe Shama]

Yeah, I do too.

[Finneas]

I definitely didn't have to go hunt for it.

[Interviewee]

You worked with him for a long time?

[Finneas]

I've worked with him. He's really the only stylist I've, I've worked with. I often, if I'm in someone else's world, for example, like, I'm often in Billi's world, I'll work with her stylist because I want to just be cohesive in that world. But yeah, Anton Schneider has been my stylist of my personal life for like five or six years. And one of my favorite things he does is I'll, because of my aforementioned repeat wear of everything, I'll shred stuff. I'll wear like jeans until they're threadbare and shirts until they're destroyed. And one of my favorite things to do is to pay him to like, sew cool patches into the jeans and jackets and stuff like that so that I can continue to abuse my jeans and wear them a million times.

[Chloe Mao]

You've attended three Met galas. Will you tell us a little bit about what you wore and what it's like attending?

[Finneas]

I've worn Gucci. What have I worn? Gucci twice and Givenchy once. And felt very lucky to wear those all three times and happy to work with those amazing designers. I mean, again, I'm not a little like being on set Like, I'm not particularly fond of having my photo taken at all, which makes attending something like the Met Gala a little strange because Obviously the first 30 minutes are, like, posing for photos. But I think I try to look at it as, like, I'm representing this cool fashion artist's work. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just a clothes hanger, and I'm standing there and they're taking photos of my cool red outfit or something like that. That's how I kind of. And you know, it's you and the most beautiful 112 people that are living currently on Earth. That's who's, like, attending the Met. So it's hard.

[Chloe Shama]

It's no pressure.

[Finneas]

Yeah, it's a little hard to feel like you're serving face or whatever, whatever the Internet would say, with any number of the most beautiful actresses and models standing around you, all just, like, being chiseled and beautiful. But I'm always honored to attend. And it's a great party. It's really fun.

[Chloe Mao]

You scored a TV show for the first time recently. Apple TV's new show, Disclaimer. What was that experience like?

[Finneas]

It's really great. I mean, I feel like as the just composer, you know, I didn't write it or directed or anything. I have a kind of a separation of church and state there, where I'm like, no, it's really great. I'm really proud to be a part of it.

[Interviewee]

How did it come about and what was the process like?

[Finneas]

Yeah, I mean, Alfonso is a person that I happen to have known for some years now. He brought his daughter Boo.

[Chloe Shama]

Alfonso Cuaron is Cuaron.

[Finneas]

He brought his daughter Boo to see our show in Milan in 2018. Playing, like, probably a club for under a thousand people. And again, a small enough venue and a generous enough man that I was able to talk to him after the show, and it turned out he was very up on all the music we'd been making. You never know. Sometimes people bring their kid and they don't care at all about the music that you've made. And he was invested. He liked the stuff we were making and gave me his number and was like, let's send each other to playlists.

[Chloe Shama]

Oh, cute.

[Finneas]

Which I think really speaks to how musical of a guy he is that he wanted to. He wanted the Rex. And he sent me great recommendations. So that's how we got to know each other. And, you know, so for six years or five years, you were sending each other playlists.

[Interviewee]

That's awesome.

[Finneas]

And, you know, Having dinner whenever. Like, you know, whenever we were both in one place, he'd be like, hey, I'm in la. And we'd grab dinner. And then during the pandemic, he. He called me and said, I think I'm gonna do this series. I think you should score it. And I was like, I've never scored anything before. And he was like, I've never made a TV show. It's gonna be great. Which is.

[Chloe Shama]

And what did it entail? That was different.

[Finneas]

Oh, my God, it's so different. I mean, not to mention that in this specific case, it was largely composing for string quartets, which is not a medium I'm familiar with. But just scoring as a genre compared to making a pop album. You know, you go in and write a song and come up with an instrumental, and the song has verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and you finish it, whatever. It's its own art form. And then you do score, and it's gotta be evocative, and it's gotta interact beautifully with dialogue. And then it's gotta move at whatever the pace the scene is. Maybe the scene starts in one place that's calm or morose, and then it ends in a super, you know, frantic. You have to have made a piece of music that can do that, emotionally carry from one place to the other. So it was a really amazing opportunity and challenge and learning experience. It was like, I learned so, so much from scoring that show. It was really fun.

[Interviewee]

Did you interact with the cast at all, or is it sort of separate?

[Finneas]

A couple things happened. One was that, you know, Alfonso would. Then he sent me the scripts and whatever. And kind of every step of the way, he was always very encouraging. But I never like to count my chickens before they're hatched or whatever. And so I remember in 2022, they were shooting the show in lo. And he said, hey, we're shooting if you're here and come out to set. And I was like, sure. And again, even if he hadn't ever talked to me about scoring, I would do that. Cause I know him and like him, and that would have been cool. So I go to set. Set is crazy. Set is like, Cate Blanchett is shooting this insane, super intense scene. She's just, like, rocking out. My memory was that she's like, maybe just stepped out of the rain in the scene, which adds to the intensity of it. She's doing this amazing scene. Every time they yell cut. Kate is like a beast. So she's not method at all. She's like. They yell cut. And she's back to her, like, completely kind, normal self, which is so cool. And then they're on break, and Alfonso's like, come with me. And he's running me over to the editing room. Classic Alfonso chivo work. They're showing me these clips that look sort of like a magic trick where you're like, the camera. The episode's out, so I'll talk about it. There's this scene in the first episode where Katherine comes downstairs and she sets a book on fire. And then her husband Robert puts the fire out and the smoke alarm goes off. And they run outside and they come back in, and then they're hugging, and the sun rises right behind them. And the sun is, like, piercing right through their profiles of their faces. And it's all a one take. And I was, like, being shown this scene. I was like, this is insane. And then a PA comes in and she goes, alfonso, the dogs are here. And he's like, okay. We run in the hallway. There's like four dogs sitting in a line in the hall. And he looks at them and he's like, oh, their fur is too white. So incredible. So I don't think these will be the right dogs, which is so awesome.

[Interviewee]

They failed their audition.

[Finneas]

Yeah, Their fur was too white. Can't be white. And then they're like, the hospital set is ready. And we go see the hospital set. And he's like, you know, I just think the blue on the walls and the blue on the ceiling aren't quite the right shades for each other. Has Chivo seen this? Chivo walks over without having heard Alfonso say that. Chivo goes, I mean, the blue on the walls and the blue on the floor.

[Interviewee]

Oh, my God.

[Finneas]

They're both just. And I go. And by the way, they're all operating at such a level of specificity, and they have so much passion for every angle of this. And I go. I say to the producer, I go, what day of photography are we on? And they were like, oh, this is 85.

[Chloe Shama]

Oh, wow.

[Finneas]

And I was like, holy shit. Like, the idea that you would be that meticulous and careful about everything. 85 days. Do you know how many weeks into a shoot that is? Yeah. Like, when I'm at that stage in an album, I'm like, it's hard for me to press play on the song. You know what I mean? Yeah. Hard for me to even face my work at that point in time. Because I'm so weary of having made decisions all the time for months, so.

[Chloe Shama]

And just for people who might not know Chivo is Emmanuel Lubezki, known as.

[Finneas]

Chivo, who only has ever spoken to me as Chivo. So it's hard for me to remember that he is.

[Chloe Shama]

When you see his credit, it's Emmanuel, but he is.

[Finneas]

But if you see his Instagram. That's true.

[Chloe Shama]

That's true. And he is one of the foremost cinematographers, I would say.

[Finneas]

Yeah. Premier cinematographers.

[Chloe Shama]

He always works with Cuaron and others. I always think of him doing all.

[Finneas]

Of Terrence Malick's films personally and many of Alejandro Iniritu. I think he won cinematographer back to back for those two films for Birdman and Revenant. I mean, he's really. He's quite an artist and one of the most fun guys to have a conversation with too. He's delightful. He's also.

[Chloe Shama]

Now I'm gonna follow him on Instagram. I never thought of that.

[Finneas]

Yeah, you should definitely follow on Instagram. Anyway, so it was just a real career highlight to get to do that project with those guys. And like, again, anytime I would sit in a room with whether they were actors like Kevin Kline and Cate Blanchett or the filmmakers, it was like really just kind of a masterclass.

[Chloe Shama]

As we started out by saying, everyone, a lot of Vogue.com staffers have been saying that they've had your album in their head all week. And we were wondering, what song do you have in your head right now? What have you been listening to this week?

[Finneas]

What have I been listening to this week? You know what I've been listening to this week is the Brat remix album.

[Chloe Shama]

What's your favorite?

[Finneas]

The Caroline Polachek remix.

[Chloe Shama]

Yes, we had some votes for that.

[Finneas]

Too, which let me remember the actual. Cause they have the cool new title versions. Yes. Everything Is Romantic featuring Caroline Polachek. I was making sure it wasn't a DJ that I was missing. But yeah, Caroline is really a brilliant performer and addition to that song. And I love the original album too, obviously, but it's been really fun to re experience this album on the remixes.

[Chloe Shama]

Yeah, agreed. Well, Finneas, thank you so much.

[Finneas]

Thanks for having me.

[Chloe Shama]

So glad we were stop on your big day.

[Finneas]

Oh, nice to talk to you both. Thanks for your time.

[Chloe Mao]

Thank you.

[Cho Menardi]

That's all for today. Thanks for listening.

[Chloe Shama]

The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis, Luke Moseley and James Yost.

[Alex Schwartz]

It is mixed by Mike Kutchman.

[Chloe Shama]

Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of.

[Chloe Mao]

Global Audio.

[Finneas]

From prx.