How Jane Birkin Became The Ultimate It Girl

Summary

Episode Summary: "How Jane Birkin Became The Ultimate It Girl"

In this insightful episode of The Run-Through with Vogue, host Choma Manati engages in a captivating conversation with Marissa Meltzer, the acclaimed author of It Girl, a comprehensive biography of the iconic Jane Birkin. Joined by correspondent Sam Sussman, the discussion delves deep into Birkin's enduring legacy, the recent monumental auction of her original Birkin bag, and the timeless allure that has cemented her status as the quintessential "it girl."

---

1. The Historic Birkin Bag Auction

Sam Sussman's Live Coverage

Sam Sussman provides an exhilarating firsthand account of the auction for Jane Birkin's original Birkin bag at Sotheby's in Paris. Reporting live, Sam describes the atmosphere as “totally incredible” (02:51) despite the auction being smaller than anticipated. The Birkin bag, enclosed in a glass case, became the centerpiece of intense bidding that began at 1 million euros and culminated in a staggering 7 million euros hammer price, totaling $10.1 million with fees (04:05).

“It sold 7 million euros. And then all in all, I think it was 8.6 with fees. Million euros. And that means $10.1 million for our US listeners.”
— Sam Sussman (04:05)

Atmosphere and Participants

Sam recounts the competitive energy among bidders, noting the presence of “representatives” from different countries who engaged in a spirited back-and-forth, generating gasps and cheers from the audience (02:00). The event was marked by a blend of high fashion and fervent anticipation, transforming the auction into what Sam humorously likens to “our version of sports” (03:02).

“There weren't a lot of fans of Jane Birkin, but there were a lot of fans of Hermes.”
— Sam Sussman (05:55)

Speculations on the Buyer

While the identity of the buyer remains private, Sam shares speculations ranging from a private Japanese collector to playful rumors involving celebrities like Kim Kardashian, who dismissed the notion in her social media stories (05:10).

---

2. Marissa Meltzer on It Girl: Exploring Jane Birkin's Legacy

Inspiration Behind the Book

Marissa Meltzer discusses her inspiration for writing It Girl, revealing a personal connection to French culture and a longstanding admiration for Jane Birkin's multifaceted persona. Her time spent in Paris and her academic background in French literature fueled her passion to uncover the layers of Birkin's life beyond her public image.

“I fell in love with Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin's music... There's a lot under the surface.”
— Marissa Meltzer (27:15)

Research and Discoveries

Marissa details her extensive research process, which included interviewing close associates, exploring archives, and visiting significant locations such as Birkin's former residences. A pivotal moment in her research was accessing Jane Birkin's personal diaries, offering an intimate glimpse into her thoughts and emotions from a young age.

“There are diaries that started when she was a literal child... personal thoughts and real-time reflections.”
— Marissa Meltzer (31:11)

Jane Birkin's Authenticity and Style

The conversation highlights Birkin's effortless style and authentic approach to life, which transcends fleeting fashion trends. Marissa emphasizes how Birkin's comfort and simplicity in her fashion choices, such as her preference for minimal makeup and signature bangs, contribute to her lasting influence.

“She was comfortable, not a big makeup person... fully herself.”
— Marissa Meltzer (38:09)

Defining the "It Girl" Phenomenon

Marissa and Choma explore the essence of being an "it girl," asserting that it stems from a blend of multifaceted talents, authentic presence, and the ability to capture the zeitgeist. Jane Birkin epitomizes this archetype through her diverse pursuits in acting, singing, and fashion.

“The truest it girls cannot be defined by one profession... multifaceted.”
— Marissa Meltzer (33:41)

---

3. The Impact of Social Media and Modern Fashion Trends

Social Media’s Role in Birkin’s Enduring Fame

Marissa discusses how social media has amplified Jane Birkin's legacy, introducing her to new generations and maintaining her relevance in contemporary culture. Platforms like TikTok and Instagram have facilitated a resurgence of interest in Birkin’s style and personality.

“She keeps being discovered by new generations... flatten who she is, but biographies fill in the blanks.”
— Marissa Meltzer (44:39)

Evolution of French Girl Style

The dialogue shifts to the modern interpretation of French girl style, examining its authenticity and how it has been influenced by global fashion dynamics. Marissa notes that while social media often misrepresents French style, the true essence lies in a cohesive and thoughtfully curated wardrobe.

“People in Paris shop thinking about an outfit and a look in a way that Americans do not.”
— Marissa Meltzer (50:10)

---

4. Personal Reflections and Anecdotes

Hosts Share Their Experiences

Choma and Sam intertwine their personal experiences with the broader narrative, discussing recent visits to cultural events like theater performances and film screenings. They reflect on how these experiences parallel the themes of authenticity and effortless style embodied by Jane Birkin.

“I love how Chloe's mom has her Bergen bags and she's doing paintings.”
— Chloe Mel (26:22)

Balancing Legacy and Personal Identity

Marissa opens up about the challenges faced by Birkin's daughters in forging their own identities while honoring their mother's legacy. This conversation underscores the delicate balance between maintaining a family legacy and pursuing individual passions.

“It's so stressful... having to follow one of my parents.”
— Marissa Meltzer (53:28)

---

5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Marissa Meltzer expresses her gratitude and excitement for spreading Jane Birkin's story, highlighting the timeless relevance of Birkin's life and style. The hosts commend her work for providing a nuanced and comprehensive portrayal of an icon whose influence continues to resonate in the worlds of fashion and beyond.

“I have to say, she just didn't seem to try hard about anything.”
— Choma Manati (47:18)

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sam Sussman (04:05): “It sold 7 million euros. And then all in all, I think it was 8.6 with fees. Million euros. And that means $10.1 million for our US listeners.”

• Marissa Meltzer (27:15): “I fell in love with Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin's music... There's a lot under the surface.”

• Marissa Meltzer (33:41): “The truest it girls cannot be defined by one profession... multifaceted.”

• Marissa Meltzer (44:39): “She keeps being discovered by new generations... flatten who she is, but biographies fill in the blanks.”

• Choma Manati (47:18): “I have to say, she just didn't seem to try hard about anything.”

---

This episode offers a profound exploration of Jane Birkin's influence and the elements that make her an enduring symbol of effortless elegance and authenticity. Marissa Meltzer's It Girl provides a detailed narrative that complements the rich discussions, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts of fashion history and iconic personalities.

---

Timestamps Reference:

• 02:51 - Sam describes the auction atmosphere
• 04:05 - Sam reveals the final auction price
• 05:55 - Sam comments on the audience's preferences
• 05:10 - Speculations on the auction buyer
• 27:15 - Marissa discusses her inspiration
• 31:11 - Marissa on Jane Birkin's diaries
• 33:41 - Definition of "it girl"
• 38:09 - Birkin's authentic style
• 44:39 - Social media's impact on Birkin's legacy
• 47:18 - Hosts' reflections on authenticity
• 53:28 - Marissa on balancing legacy and identity

Transcript

[Sponsor]

This episode of the Run through is brought to you by eBay. EBay. It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion over and over again. Your favorite designers expertly authenticated. Yes, ebay. Things people love.

[Chloe Mel]

This is the Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel.

[Choma Manati]

And I'm Cho Manati.

[Chloe Mel]

And today on the show, we have Choma's conversation with beloved Marissa Meltzer, incredible author who we had on the show once before about her book on glossier. And I'm so excited to listen to her. And Shoma's conversation about her new book, It Girl, all about Jane Birkin.

[Choma Manati]

I know, it was so fun talking to Marissa. She's, you know, she goes deep on her obsessions, and I think for this book, she definitely went deep. In fact, she was in Paris when we spoke, and she was just about to go to the auction of Jane's beloved Birkin bag.

[Chloe Mel]

I was very excited about the timeliness of this Marissa interview because on Thursday, all eyes were on the original Birkin bag, the prototype. And Sam Sussman was in the room where it happened.

[Sam Sussman]

Reporting live, Sotheby's, Paris.

[Choma Manati]

What was the scene like? I can't even begin to imagine who was there. Was it really crazy? Was there a lot of. I mean, tell us everything.

[Sam Sussman]

It was totally. I. I'll admit it. I've never been to an auction before, so didn't know what to expect. Luckily, we had coordinated some press badges, so I got to go behind the velvet rope. It was. It was smaller than I thought. But the bag. I mean, the bag was right there enclosed in a glass case.

[Chloe Mel]

Wait, the auction was smaller? The bag was smaller?

[Sam Sussman]

No, the bag was a great size. The auction. The auction was smaller than I thought.

[Choma Manati]

Okay. Okay.

[Sam Sussman]

But it was incredible. So they had a few, like, three rows of seats. They had a lot of cameras set up. They had a lot of people, A lot of press was there watching this auction take place, which I think. I think it happened. And I think Chloe emailed you at the start and at the finish of it, and I think it was 10 minutes long. I think bidding started at 1 million euros. And it was incredible to see these people fighting. You know, it's truly. They're on the phone covering their mouths so no one can know what they're bargaining or whatever they're saying. But it was going back and forth by the end by two people who were representatives. I learned so much lingo. Absentee bidders. They were both representatives. One was French and one woman was Japanese. And they were going back and forth. And when there were gasps in the room, there was cheering.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Sam Sussman]

Catherine B. Who was selling the bag, was there with a big bouquet of flowers. Just, you know, someone had brought.

[Chloe Mel]

This is our version of sports.

[Sam Sussman]

It totally was.

[Chloe Mel]

And you were there with our news editor, Anna Cofola, who is based in London and was so activated by this opportunity that she hopped on the Eurostar for the day.

[Choma Manati]

No way. I didn't even know that.

[Sam Sussman]

Yes. That's so hilarious. It was so hot that day. We were sweating it out and we were in the trenches together, just grabbing people to interview them.

[Chloe Mel]

And you guys interviewed the owner of the bag.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Right.

[Chloe Mel]

What was paint the set, the scene of what she was like. She sounded like quite a character.

[Sam Sussman]

She was. And I mean, it's really incredible. She had gotten this bag for a much lower price than what it ended up being offered.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, it was more like six figures. Right? She paid, I think.

[Sam Sussman]

Exactly. Exactly. She was so happy. She said Hermes is her icon. Hermes is everything to her. Oh, my gosh. So she is just a big fan of the brand. And it was time to let it go and give it a new home. But.

[Choma Manati]

Well, let's let. Can you. Drum roll, please. Tell us how much it sold.

[Sam Sussman]

I can. It sold. The hammer price. Another new lingo of lingo.

[Choma Manati]

The hammer price.

[Sam Sussman]

Hammer price.

[Choma Manati]

The hammer price.

[Sam Sussman]

7 million euros. And then all in all, I think it was 8.6 with fees. Million euros. And that means $10.1 million for our US listeners.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

That is. Wow.

[Sam Sussman]

So beating a record. And I don't want to get this wrong, but I believe the most expensive handbag to ever go for auction was only at around 500,000. So this really. People who we interview, we spoke to a lot of kind of people of resale companies who probably would be mad that I'm calling it that re home, I think, is the word rehome.

[Choma Manati]

Get out.

[Sam Sussman]

But seriously, they were thinking the bag was gonna go for 2 million, so, I mean, wow. 5 million more than that.

[Chloe Mel]

Also, the street style there looked really something. There were a lot of Hermes bags in attention.

[Sam Sussman]

Check out Vogue magazine's TikTok to see what it really felt like in the room.

[Chloe Mel]

Also, I saw one great image of someone with a copy of the galley of Marissa's book, which isn't out until October in their Hermes Birkin.

[Sam Sussman]

Wow.

[Chloe Mel]

So really, really on the nose.

[Choma Manati]

Wow. I mean, I hope Marissa saw that, because that is amazing. Do we know anything about the person who bought the bag?

[Sam Sussman]

So, no. I mean, again, on our TikTok. There's been a lot of comments speculating, but they all say different names. It's a private Japanese collector. They sent the head of Sotheby's in Japan to bid for them. So, you know, they were serious. Kim Kardashian, in her stories, had posted all these texts. She had gotten multiple texts being like, we know it's you, but it wasn't her. It's amazing. What I Learned from the 6th experience Is it wasn't about the Jane. It was more about the Birkin. It was. There weren't a lot of fans of.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, my God. That's such a good way to sum it up.

[Sam Sussman]

There weren't a lot of fans of Jane Birkin, but there were a lot of fans of Hermes.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mel]

Valuing.

[Choma Manati]

I have not had you on the pod before, Sam.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I've been hanging out.

[Chloe Mel]

You're always on the ground.

[Sam Sussman]

Mine too.

[Choma Manati]

You're always there.

[Chloe Mel]

Also, you know what? Kismet. We get Sam's front row in the room where it happened. Report from the Birkinsale, plus Sam's take on the Love island finale.

[Sam Sussman]

Thought you'd never ask. I was like, looking at my watch, I realized how much time we have left.

[Chloe Mel]

Speaking of TikTok, when do you have time?

[Choma Manati]

It's so funny because Love island is obviously a British export, something that has been here for years. I never got into it and I've never seen so much frenzy from the US Cause I know when it's broken through. When my boyfriend asked me about it, he was like, what is Love Island? And I was like, okay, okay, this is a thing now. The atom test.

[Sam Sussman]

I think the NBA Finals were happening when Love island was happening. And the amount of memes I saw about boyfriends being like, we're gonna watch Love Island. Actually, we're not gonna watch the NBA Finals. So it totally has broke. There's a mania. I think season six was amazing. Had amazing characters. Season seven was a hurricane. It was a hurricane.

[Choma Manati]

Huda.

[Sam Sussman]

It was a hurricane, Hannah. It was hurricane. There was. So. It was ups and downs and. Yeah, how do I have the time? I don't want to admit this on the air, but in Europe, I was staying up till 2 and 3am when the episodes aired, streaming it from TikTok. Because you have to have a VPN. They don't have peacock in Europe.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, wow.

[Sam Sussman]

Just so I could keep up with the group chats. Oh, wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Stop it.

[Choma Manati]

How do you do it?

[Sam Sussman]

I saw an amazing TikTok that was like. When people are like, how do you have a life. It's like you rise to the. You don't have a life. You rise to the occasion. Only a certain few can keep up with. One hour every night. One hour for an assessment.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, my God.

[Chloe Mel]

She's the anti. Dakota Johnson.

[Choma Manati]

Exactly. Why did this season break through? Like, because it's not the first season of Love island in the U.S. it's like the sixth season. Like, what was. Why is everyone talking about it now? What's so special about this one there?

[Sam Sussman]

The people. It broke all the rule. It broke the mold. Season seven, there was it. There was so many twists and turns and I think it was so America was kind of recoupling people that didn't have connections, they were voting off people that did have strong connections. The cast was also doing that. So everyone was like, what is this Love Island? It's not Exploration Island. All the rules were being broken. But the group there was some really standout characters. And so again, cover your ears if you didn't watch the finale. But Amaya Papaya, America's favorite one, she's New York City's own Amaia and Brian Google immediately. And when you Google, she's hopefully will get a record deal because she has some amazing songs that I'll let you describe.

[Chloe Mel]

I feel like now I've missed the moment, but I also feel like I want to tap in. Jose did a really funny piece on like the look of Love island and what it. It's this very sort of alchemical combination of fast fashion, old fashioned, sexy, but powerful. I mean, it really sort of is tapping into conveying a certain look with their clothing.

[Sam Sussman]

Wow, that was a great read because they're all there to find love, so they're. No, it was. But it was so great to read it and you know, what they're dressing for is very specific and also very accessible. I want to say I was always looking it up. We were spotting some Frankie's bikinis on there. There's shein, there's boohoo dolls. I mean, it was very affordable. And these women and men have captivated all of America. Maybe not their hearts, but their eyes. We're watching. So I thought it was a very interesting take on the fashion and loved reading it. Oh my God, it was wild. The characters, they shocked you. But Amaya, truly, one thing I have to say, she always practiced being herself and she was like, if I'm not accepted, she found someone who accepted her as herself. So I think that's a good message.

[Choma Manati]

Oh my God. When you Google her by the Way your screen explodes with papayas. Yes.

[Chloe Mel]

Stop.

[Choma Manati]

Yes. And. And then. Then a quote pops up by her just that keeps running over and over that says, I never said I was perfect. I never said I didn't have any flaws. And there's a little papaya at the end.

[Sam Sussman]

I love it.

[Marissa Meltzer]

That was it.

[Sam Sussman]

Sexy. Let me tell you how it sounds. I never said I was perfect. I never said, oh, it's a song.

[Choma Manati]

It's a song.

[Sam Sussman]

But I like how you did it.

[Marissa Meltzer]

So I'll keep it.

[Choma Manati]

Just watch it. Clearly, I'm out of the loop. Like, I didn't know this was a song. Like, literally, the lyric pops up. The whole screen was exploding with papayas. I was very confused.

[Sam Sussman]

Wow.

[Sponsor]

Choma, what have you been up to in London?

[Choma Manati]

I mean, the weather here is so glorious. We're having the best summer ever. I think it's like the hottest summer on record, and maybe we had the driest spring on record. So everybody's in a really good mood. I actually went to see Evita, which is the hottest ticket in town. And Rachel Ziegler, that's as Evita. I mean, she is so fantastic. And one of the things that really made me want to go see it was that on my walk home every night, I walk past the theater, and what she does as part of the performance is she goes onto the balcony. And I couldn't understand why all of these people were standing outside the theater long after the theater had started. But they all wait for this performance, and she goes out onto the balcony and like, thousands of people outside of the theater listen to her sing. And it was. I was just wonder, pull that off with the. You know, without making. Giving the people inside the theater fomo. But actually, it worked really well. What you see is this huge screen of her singing and all of the people outside. And it's just this incredible moment of theater. I mean, Jamie Lloyd, who is the director, is like a complete star. And hopefully they take this to Broadway so that you guys can enjoy it, because I think it's going to continue to have this buzz around it all summer.

[Sponsor]

I love that.

[Chloe Mel]

I mean, and we know Evita for the people, and this is for the people.

[Choma Manati]

So timely. Yeah.

[Chloe Mel]

Makes that work.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. I also went to see this film called Hot Milk, which people are talking about that.

[Chloe Mel]

What is it?

[Choma Manati]

It's the same director as that movie, Ida. And I remember, I basically, every time I want to see a movie that I've maybe never heard of, I ask my old boss, Sally Singer, I just text her, and I'M like, should I go and see this movie? Because she watches every single movie.

[Chloe Mel]

The Sally Test.

[Choma Manati]

Yes, the Sally Test. She's like my like cultural barometer on so many things, but specifically mov. And she was like, oh, I've heard really good things about it. You should go see it. And Vicky Cripps is in it. I was like, okay, great. So I went to see it and Amma Mackey is the lead and she actually reminds me a bit of one of our old colleagues, Alessandra Cordina. She's. She's breathtakingly beautiful and she has this very intense relationship with her mother. And I won't give too much away because my friend who I went to see it with, we were both just talking about our mommy issues for the entire time after this film. It. I don't wanna give too much away because. But basically her mother suffers from this condition and you're sort of left wondering if this condition is with. In inside her head. And she's had this massive trauma from her childhood. And anyway, it is so great. And it all plays out in Spain, on the coast of Spain and partially in Greece. So it's a good summer movie to get you in the mood. And Emma and Vicky have this kind of very intense romance. So it's very sexy.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh my God. And the supporting cast is like my three beloved Brits, Fiona Shaw, Patsy Farron and Jessie Buckley all in one. Woo.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, it's a really fab film. So I Highly recommend, highly recommend. But I still have to see F1.

[Chloe Mel]

Yes.

[Choma Manati]

And there's another film that Sally recommended that I haven't seen. Sorry Baby. Have you guys seen Sorry Baby?

[Chloe Mel]

Yes, we're interviewing Ava Victor, the writer director star. Can't wait today for the pod.

[Choma Manati]

That's exciting.

[Sam Sussman]

Now I have my summer movie list. I'm gonna. I know all those out.

[Choma Manati]

What have you guys been watching? What's going on over there?

[Chloe Mel]

We know what Sam's been watching.

[Sam Sussman]

No, but also just you speaking about what's going on. I was in London. I got to see Lana Del Rey. I got to see.

[Choma Manati]

Oh my God.

[Chloe Mel]

Didn't you go with Liam?

[Sam Sussman]

Yeah, with Liam. So I wanted. The music was just overflowing over in London and.

[Choma Manati]

Exactly. There's been a big. It's been. I mean between Glastonbury and the. Lana and Sabrina Carpenter. I mean you got the best of it.

[Sam Sussman]

I truly blessed feeling.

[Chloe Mel]

Sam, how was your trip to Couture? We didn't get to hear. We talked about Couture last week. But let's Hear the suspect.

[Choma Manati]

What were your highlights? Yeah.

[Sam Sussman]

I mean, I got to see Choma at Celine, which was Michael Ryder's debut. So it was gorgeous. He had this massive silk foulard above the show space and it was pooling with the rain. But it was quite. Everything was still quite beautiful. They had these amazing Celine umbrellas that everyone was trying to bring home with them.

[Choma Manati]

We were trying to figure out how we were gonna steal our little thread. I'm not gonna lie.

[Sam Sussman]

But it was an amazing back to the clothes. It was an amazing debut from him and obviously wanted to wear everything. We got to meet his mother, which was amazing. She reads Folk Runway every single day.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Chloe Mel]

We Love that for Mrs. Ryder.

[Sam Sussman]

Exactly. And then I have to say the ending. So that was the beginning, then the ending. Margiela was amazing. And that's one show that everyone was just obsessed by. They loved the soundtrack. They loved the clothes. It was so beautiful. It ended in a rainbow pit of balloons, but the clothing was really breathtaking. So there was.

[Chloe Mel]

I'm very into the rainbow pit of balloons. There should be more of that.

[Sam Sussman]

Exactly. Bring Artie and Alice.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I know.

[Sam Sussman]

Get him in the family Fun. But he also had.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mel]

Who did the Margiela soundtrack? It was someone really famous.

[Sam Sussman]

Billy Corgan.

[Chloe Mel]

Yeah, Billy Corgan.

[Sam Sussman]

Which was amazing.

[Chloe Mel]

Everyone was. Well, Samantha and I are off to Wyoming tomorrow for a future Vogue shoot.

[Sam Sussman]

Yeah. Ooh, I'm exciting. I'm going to make Chloe go to the Million Dollar Cowboy Bar.

[Chloe Mel]

Yeah. Sam sent me a link yesterday to the Million Dollar Cowboy Bar in Jackson Hole. There's our Wednesday night.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, my God, it must be so beautiful there. I've never been.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I've never been.

[Sam Sussman]

Never.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, that lamp.

[Choma Manati]

I'm excited.

[Chloe Mel]

All right, we have to wrap up.

[Sam Sussman]

Thank you, ladies. So honored.

[Choma Manati]

It was so lovely to have you.

[Sam Sussman]

Best.

[Chloe Mel]

We love resident Love island expert and this was so much fun. We will be back with Choma's conversation with Marissa Meltzer after a short break.

[Sponsor]

When your love for sneakers has you chasing limited editions, classics and rare finds, go to ebay. Score your once in a blue moon pair and check off your wish list. For those fresh kicks, get authentic streetwear and expert verified accessories. Think timeless watches, vintage designer bags and more jewelry than you can wear. EBay. The new place for new pre loved vintage and rare fashion. Yeah, eBay. Things people love.

[Choma Manati]

Where are you right now?

[Marissa Meltzer]

I'm in Paris for the Birkin auction.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, you.

[Sam Sussman]

Oh, wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I just got here yesterday. Yeah. And then today I went to the public viewing and then tomorrow is the Auction itself.

[Choma Manati]

What did you see at the public viewing that caught your eye or surprised you?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Well, it's, it's how the people were dressed at the public viewing.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, tell me everything.

[Marissa Meltzer]

There was like a 60 year old man in head to toe Schiaparelli.

[Choma Manati]

Stop it.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Like giant ear cuff gold, like sort of chin length, like giant collar top. Like those, I don't know if they're Schiaparelli or maybe Balenciaga. Those crazy long pointed.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Like shoes that are almost like clown shoes. And, and he is from Poland and he is a collector, couture collector. He wants to maybe bed. And he was with like his friend who was wearing kind of like if Lynn wore Chanel, Baby Linny goes Chanel. And then Baby Linny being Lynn Jaeger. Yes, yes.

[Choma Manati]

Iconic fashion.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I'm not even friends with. I don't know why I feel like she's Baby Lyney.

[Choma Manati]

Well, that's. Isn't that her Instagram handle? It is.

[Marissa Meltzer]

It is.

[Choma Manati]

It is. I think we get, we get to call her Baby Ly.

[Marissa Meltzer]

And then there was like a Belgian guy who was wearing like full Ralph Lauren, like the Ralph the Bear sweater and khakis and had like hair that he looked like a minor royal family member.

[Choma Manati]

Okay.

[Marissa Meltzer]

There's a lot of. So there's just a lot. And then now I'm just so excited to see who shows up to the auction.

[Choma Manati]

I mean, one thing that struck me about the book was how uninterested or how truly bohemian Jane's attitude was towards money, that she seemed very unfazed by the fact that this bag had sort of produced this iconic frenzy and she wasn't so, you know, it's become such a signifier of.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, I think that was part of her charm because she just kind of like TRA la la, fell into everything. So of course her with the bag was just like, I sat next to Jean Louis Dumas and he made me a bag and now it's the most popular bag in the world. And I cover mine with like UNICEF and Free Tibet stickers. And you know, and I think the relationship to money is similarly, you know, she grew up fairly high class, I guess. I mean, you're British, so you're probably a better interpreter than I am. But you know, she grew up.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, she was upper middle class with a boat with bohemian with some sort of of bohemia. I mean, her, her mother was an actress and yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Her father was military.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

And so, yeah, I mean, I think that it was that kind of like thinking about money was not something she ever really had to do. But I also think she didn't have a ton of it, and I don't think she spent a lot of it or cared that much. Like, she didn't seem to live a particularly lavish life.

[Choma Manati]

No, no.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Jane Birkin donated this bag to an auction for AIDS charity in 1994.

[Choma Manati]

Okay. That's the origin of it.

[Marissa Meltzer]

In 2000, it went up for auction again, and this woman, Catherine Beunier, bought it and has had it. Basically, she's a collector. She has like a tiny little shop that sells collectible Hermes and Chanel accessories in Paris. And she's had it basically, you know, insured and in storage for 25 years.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

So she's selling it. We don't know how much she bought it for, but rumor is like a hundred thousand ish or something like that. And I mean, by the time this podcast comes out, everyone will know how much it sells for, but, you know, at least a million, if not way, way over.

[Choma Manati]

Wow.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, I mean, I, I. Because also it's gonna be what is rare these days, which is an in person auction during couture week in Paris. So I think people could also just get carried away.

[Choma Manati]

Exactly. Because all the right people are there to buy. All the kind of people who might want something rare and beautiful and. Yeah, one of a kind. Which is exactly what couture is.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Choma Manati]

Do you think there's a version of the Birkin today? I mean, do you think we'll ever have a bag on this level that has this much kind of.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, I think we will. I mean, I think that bags are so sort of, you know, they're made with a lot of intention these days to become an it bag or to go viral. And that's fine because fashion is a business. But I think what is cool about some of the sort of it bags of the past, like the Birkin, is that it had kind of a slow rollout and it took a long time to take off because it came out in like the mid-80s and didn't really become a pop culture thing until like the late 90s, early 2000s. And so I think it could be something like that. Like a minor bag. Like a lot of the kind of lesser Hermes bags are being rediscovered. Like, everyone wants a plume, including me. Oh, now. But also, you know, we're having such a crazy time of designer turnaround.

[Sam Sussman]

Right.

[Marissa Meltzer]

As we all know. So, you know, there's all this potential for like, Matthew Blazi to like, you know, what is his next big Chanel in bag. What is Jonathan Anderson gonna do for Dior? You know, Bottega Veneta could have a crazy, you know, big bag. So I just think there's, like, there's a lot of potential, and people understand what a big business accessories is. I just love it when it's something kind of pulled from the archive and tweaks and kind of takes off in a more organic way. Like the way that the Dior saddlebags kind of came back where it was like people were watching sex in. They were loving that era, and you could still get them kind of cheap on the secondhand market. And it kind of went from, like, downtown younger girls, and then they started making them again.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, it's so true. It's so funny you said that, because I. I actually wore one of the saddle bags from Galliano era recently, and I love it. Yeah, it's.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Does it have a print or what is it?

[Choma Manati]

It has the gold, Gold, green and red. Gold and green colors.

[Marissa Meltzer]

So it's that, I guess, Rasta saddlebag.

[Choma Manati]

The Raster saddlebag. I could. Whether that's PC to say, but it's the Russ of saddle.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Well, the Jamaican inspired.

[Choma Manati]

The Jamaican inspired. Yeah. So I. I love. I love that collection.

[Marissa Meltzer]

As someone from Northern California, red, gold, and green will always just be. Yeah, Ralston. Yes, exactly.

[Choma Manati]

It is red, gold.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Agreed.

[Choma Manati]

Is. So I have. I have that. And I also have a patchwork. One of the motorcycle Balenciaga bags I really like.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Oh, those are good.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I am not. I love bags, but I'm.

[Choma Manati]

Are you a bag person?

[Marissa Meltzer]

A bag minimalist? I have a few, and I wear them all the time, but I don't collect them and hoard them. I have, like, a couple Chanel bags. A couple Chanel evening bags. I have, like, a 1950s Kelly bag.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, nice.

[Marissa Meltzer]

That I've had refurbished a thousand times. And I have, like, a giant Hermes oversized plume, or not plume. Picotin.

[Sam Sussman]

Nice.

[Marissa Meltzer]

And now I would love, like, a small black Birkin. I think that would be fun. I'd love a plume, but I don't. You know, I live in New York, and so it's like London, where, like, your bag is kind of like having a car or something like that. It is like, I just want a bag that I don't have to be too fussy about.

[Choma Manati]

I mean, do you. Are you the kind of person who would personalize it in the same way that Jane did? I kind of love that she had, like, nail clippers and trinkets.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Oh, and the one that they're auctioning still has the nail clip.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, my goodness.

[Marissa Meltzer]

On it. No, just because I'm not. I don't, like, jangle, you know, Like, I don't wanna. I'm not. I'm never gonna buy a Labubu. I'm not, like, I don't have a custom phone case. Mine is just, like, black rubber. And I don't know. It's not my mode of expression. I appreciate it for other people, but. No, I would. I just want, like, sleek and fine. I would. I endeavor to be the kind of woman, especially get older, that puts, like, a sticker on my Birkin bag. I mean, I love. Speaking of Chloe. I love how Chloe's mom has her Bergen bags and she's, like, doing paintings.

[Choma Manati]

I know she's mentioned in the book.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah. In passing. And I. I imagine Chloe has one. Not the few. And, like, that would be. That, to me is, like, if someone wants to paint something on a Birkin for me, I would be deeply touched and that. I would love that.

[Choma Manati]

But, like, also terrified if it went wrong.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Song. I actually think that would be cool.

[Choma Manati]

Okay.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Like, I. My favorite art in New York right now is are these weird paintings in my gynecologist's office. It's just like, all of these sort of, like, art nouveau meets mermaid women that are just, like, hanging out in pink and blue rooms. I think it's so pretty and soothing. And there's. She has, like, eight of them.

[Choma Manati]

I really enjoyed reading your book, It Girl, which is all about Jane Birkin. I want to ask what inspired you to write this book?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Well, it's kind of the synthesis of all my nerdy interests. I went to a college that was hippie enough that it didn't have majors, but it would have been French. And I spent my last year at university in Paris, and I had taken French since I'd been a teenager. So I spoke it, and I made some effort to maintain it in my life and read it. And, you know, I subscribed to French Vogue and all of that to try to, you know, have one skill from my education that I may maintain. Like, it's definitely not math or science. And so there's that. You know, I've always been into fashion. I fell in love with Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin's music when I was, I think through boyfriends when I was, like, in college. And then I love telling the stories of women's lives. And I had this. I knew who she was and knew her life story, but not so much. And I knew that There was a lot to sort of get in there. Like, I think anyone for whom their name is more famous than who they are and who's more sort of known as, like, a muse or something, you always know there's gonna be a lot under the surface. And I think I was right. So that was. That was what inspired it.

[Choma Manati]

And what was the process of. Of researching this book? How long did it take? Where did you start?

[Marissa Meltzer]

I started. I started in Paris, where I am now. I know it was, like, really. It was kind of a dream. I took my dog and put all of my life in New York in storage and moved to Paris for a couple months and interviewed as many people as I could. But then also I was in the archives, so for. For French Vogue and also, you know, every other magazine and TV and commercials and films and reading every book that I could, and also doing things like going to the Alaia archives, the private ones, because he was a big fashion collector, just to see if there was any clothes that she wore that I could see up close. And I went to the old house that she lived in with Sir Gainsbourg.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, is this the one with the. That had the black walls and.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, yeah, the black walls and the black carpet.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, the black fur.

[Marissa Meltzer]

The fur bed. Yeah. It truly looks like a house. Like, you can't believe that they had toddlers living in that house. It really looks like nothing but ill repute in a fun way. But it. It looks like somewhere where it's just an afterparty every night.

[Choma Manati]

Wow. Can anyone visit the house? Or how do you get. Or is it, like, how do.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, except the tickets. It's really cool because they only allow in half an hour, and you do headphones when Charlotte Gainsbourg narrates it either in French or English. It's very intimate. But it's really hard to get tickets because they go on sale, like, every three months, and immediately. Wow. So I had to pull some strings, but I was able to get them. But technically, anyone can. You just, like, have to be very on top of it.

[Choma Manati]

Wow. What was some of the most surprising interviews or research that you unearth that kind of changed your view or were pivotal to some of the moment, the sort of chapters in the book.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I mean, I went through a phase where every celebrity that I was interviewing for various other purposes in my life as a journalist, I would just ask them what their relationship to Jane Birkin was or if they had ever met her. And I remember interviewing Dakota Johnson, and she was like, she's why I have bangs.

[Choma Manati]

Oh, My gosh, I can totally see it.

[Marissa Meltzer]

And then also, I didn't even think of it really at the time, but Dakota Johnson in A Bigger Splash plays the Jane Birkin role in La Piscine because it's kind of a remake.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

But I was like, oh, yeah, same perfect bangs. I think. Yeah. Reading about, like reading her diaries and. Which is also really special because there's so many times when you're writing about someone who's passed away or even that you. Who's still alive, but you don't really know what they think about things. Like you can cobble together a picture of their lives. But we had these diaries that she's. That started when she was a literal child, like 10, 11 years old. So you had these, like, personal thoughts and real time reflections that were kind of warts and all. Like, some of them are unflattering. She talks about how jealous she is or how much she's in love with someone or chronicles having an affair. So that. That part was great. And then you also kind of see what she cared about, you know, like her creative life and her career and her kids and what, you know, she didn't talk that much about fashion. She never talked about the Birkin bag, which didn't mean that she didn't care about it. It just like, there's no entry where she's like, guess who I met on an Air France flight? The head of Hermes, and he's making me a bag. Like, that's what I. That would be the headline in my diary. But not her, hers.

[Choma Manati]

I mean, I guess it's sort of the definition of effortless, right? This. This Effortless. No, no. And I.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Which is so sad because, like, I would love to not try hard about anything. I try. I try so, so hard. And I want to think. I mean, here I am in Paris where everyone looks like effortless, even in really hot weather in the summer. And I'm from New York. We try, you know, ebay.

[Sponsor]

It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion over and over again. Your favorite designers expertly authenticated. Yeah, eBay. Things people love.

[Choma Manati]

I mean, the title of the book is It Girl. And I'm curious to hear from you what you think defines an it girl. And what do you think made Jane kind of the archetypal it girl, and I think, think almost the it girl to end all it girls, really?

[Marissa Meltzer]

For sure. I think it girl, it's like what you said, it's effortless. I think the key thing with an it girl is. It cannot be something that you crown. Like someone else has to crown you or call you an it girl. You cannot yourself call, you know, yourself an it girl. So I think that dictates it a little bit. Like, I think the truest it girls cannot be defined by one profession or reason for their fame. Like, the best kind is like a Jane Birkin where if you were explaining her to someone, you'd say, oh, she acts and she sings, but she's also really fashionable and she has these famous love life. And it's same with like an Edie Sedgwick or Alexa Chung or something like that, where they have these lives where they're creative and multifaceted, you know, but also, you know, Chloe Sevigny, wonderful it girl. I think they have to be representative of a moment, but also have this kind of eternal. I don't know, what do you think and who are your favorites?

[Choma Manati]

I mean, we sort of semi, you know, we co. Own Jane.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, for sure.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. And I think about Alexa and Sienna Miller and. And I think they're able to capture the zeitgeist in a way. Obviously they're multi hyphenate. They're not known for just one thing.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Representative of a moment.

[Choma Manati]

Representative of a moment.

[Marissa Meltzer]

See them as something. Yeah.

[Choma Manati]

Innate sense of style. Usually hot partners also.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Oh, for sure. They often do high, low, really well. Like they mix designer with vintage or you know, in Jane Birkin's case, like the infamous basket bags. It's like something that you found at a little flea market or on vacation that becomes this indelible thing.

[Choma Manati]

It's so funny because Jane Birkin picked up her. I didn't know that where she picked up her basket bag. I learned it from, from your book. And she picked it up at a market where my mother used to go food shopping every week. Buried street market. Yeah. It's very close to where I grew up in Soho in London.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Oh, I didn't know you grew up in Soho. Wow.

[Choma Manati]

I didn't. I grew up. I grew up 10 minutes from Soho. But okay, I didn't grow. I didn't grow far from Soho. And that's where my mother would get fresh fruit and my grandfather would get fresh fruit and vegetables. So it was so funny to be like, oh my God, Barrack Street Market. That's where she got her like very famous Portuguese basket.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, it's fun. I. I know London, but not as well as I know Paris. So for me, and also doing a lot of the research in Paris. Paris, I would be like Wait, that, that apartment that she lived in was a five minute walk away. And of course I stalked every place that she lived in and not in a creepy way. I wasn't knocking on anyone's doors. I would just walk by it and try to be like, I wonder if this was her sushi place across the street. And went of course to her grave. And you know, places like Brasserie Lip that she frequented to eat that are still around. But that's. Yeah, that. I also love writing about people where they have a past, but it's not so far away that everything you're writing about is gone. Like, it's, it's special to be to. To know where the market is, where she bought, you know, her bag or like a theater where she performed, you know, like her first concert was at the Bataclan in Paris where I saw Primal Scream when I was in, you know, university. And so I have a history with that. And yeah, it's. There's something really special about that.

[Choma Manati]

I love that too. It's almost that you can sort of trace her, you can follow her footsteps a little bit.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah.

[Choma Manati]

It was quite interesting reading about how her look came together because it seems that she wasn't someone who considered herself to be beautiful and she sort of created this semi androgynous look for herself at quite a young age. Can you. What do you think it is about her look? Obviously, you know, you can't open an Instagram page about friendship or any style really without encountering Jane Birkin.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah.

[Choma Manati]

What do you think about. It is about her look and style that just has transcended time and continues to be something that people obsess over and imitate.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I think the way that she was British but spent most of her life in Paris also informs that look because there's a little bit of the like vintage in the street style of London and that kind of kind of Soho, Carnaby street of the 60s swinging London that she was a part of. But then there is that espadrilles and, you know, the Birkin bag and the kind of put togetherness that the French do so well soign. So it was this hodgepodge. I think she always looked comfortable, which is, I think part of the key of it. Like she's not really known for wearing. You never see her in like stilettos and, you know, she was definitely comfortable with a lot of skin on display. So you saw her with a lot of like macrame and sheer and no bra. And also that look translates really well because we've been in such a lace and sheer and the Chloe renaissance that's happening right now, so it translates well. But I think that ease and comfort of like. Like she wasn't a big makeup person. The hair was cute with the bangs, but it didn't look like she took any time really styling it. She wore. I always think there's this video of her, I think, at the Al palace or somewhere like that for a state dinner. And it's 1992, and Princess Diana is there in a big old gown looking unhappy. I think it's right before she got divorced. And then Jane Birkin shows up, and she's wearing probably. Probably YSL because they were good friends. Tuxedo, just with a shirt and just, you know, looking so comfortable, so casual, so in her old own skin. And to me, that's it. It's like even when she was dressed up, even when she's in a gown and then she kind of quit wearing gowns and, you know, would wear like a men's suit or a tuxedo. You know, even in. When she's at a state dinner, she just looks like fully herself. And I love that. And I think that there's. Especially in a time when people are so interested in every micro trend that happens and, you know, being an influencer and looking for a certain way and, you know, these TikTok things about how to find your personal style. Like, I think part of the key is not overthinking it. She just didn't seem to. And I love that. And I wish there was more of that.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. I mean, do you think. Cause I. Obviously the term it girl. I think a lot of it girls probably hate the term it girl.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I'm not sure. Like, I would love if someone called me a girl. It's never happening. I'm way too old. But also. Yeah, like, it's one of those things like being called maybe like a hipster of a. You know, that word's a bit out of fashion or, you know, something like that, or a muse. Like. Yeah, it gets labeled on you, and you probably hate it or at least have like a very, you know, tortured relationship with it. But.

[Choma Manati]

And it seemed like she kind of had somewhat of a tortured relationship with the idea of being amused or. Or did she embrace it From. From the book. What. It seemed that she. She wanted to come out from the shadow of Serge because obviously she.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, she was. I was both.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

You know, she. She had this relationship with Serge Gainsbourg, and they made famous music together, but that was also when she Was pretty young, you know, starting when she was in her early 20s. And then they stayed working together after they broke up and into her adulthood and until he died in the early 90s. And so. And then even after he died, she still toured with his music. So there was this kind of like, dichotomy and, or like push and pull of her wanting to like, celebrate her history. And she really loved him and the music he wrote. But then she got criticism because she was kind of seen as like this nostalgia act, like she hadn't. Even though she made other music, there was this feeling that she was kind of like trapped in her own history. But I think she really loved it. So there was that. But then she does. She did want to sort of pursue her own acting potential and. But it's not this book, which is also why it's interesting to me. It's not this life story of like, she found herself and then she won like a BAFTA or an Oscar or whatever and like conquered Hollywood or creative. Like, she didn't. She didn't have that life. Like, she's still a little bit obscure in America and I think not that much more famous in the uk.

[Choma Manati]

No.

[Marissa Meltzer]

You know, she's still famous as this kind of like mood board staple. But people don't necessarily know a lot about why or how or who she was.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, I personally didn't know so much. I mean, I knew all the kind of basic things about her relationship with Serge. The fact that she had, you know, three amazing children and who are also talented in their own ways.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah.

[Choma Manati]

In fact, the blended family aspect of it. The fact that I didn't know actually until I read the book what a surgeon had such a. A complex but also rich relationship. Like he's.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, it's kind of beautiful, right? Like she leaves him and has an affair and then gets pregnant, you know, fairly soon after. And he just signs up, calls himself like Papa Du.

[Choma Manati]

Like, I wasn't expecting that part. That was a bit of a plot twist there.

[Marissa Meltzer]

But it's kind of beautiful, this idea. Like I'm the kind of person that I break up with someone and it's not necessarily bad blood, but for me to get over someone, I can't have them in my life. It's really hard for me. No, and I love that she was able to. Also. He was a rough guy, he was problematic, he was kind of embarrassing sometimes. He was an alcoholic and could be boorish. And she still had this, like, real love for him and. Yeah, co parented with him and in a way that would be really hard for me.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. I mean, I think obviously the myth around her and her story, beyond her style, beyond that is what endures and what. Why people keep coming back to this idea. I mean, she basically was the blueprint for. For French girl style, which we talk about, we still talk about.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Ad nauseam.

[Choma Manati]

Ad nauseam. And I think. I mean, it was. It's funny to think, what do you think the impact of social media has had on this message? Because there are, you know, we talk a lot about it. Flattening. Flattening history. What do you think social media's impact has had on. On this phenomenon?

[Marissa Meltzer]

I think on Jane Birkin, it's huge. I don't think this book would be as sort of anticipated if she. If I was. Wrote it 10 years before or something, because she is so omnipresent even two years after her death. And in some ways more important because she keeps being discovered by new generations. You know, she's. She's a little bit older than my own parents, but very close in age. And, you know, they barely know who she is. I know who she is more than they did because I am seeing her everywhere on social media, and it does flatten who she is. But that's where I think, you know, biographies and books can really, you know, fill in the blanks. Like, I hope that people will see photos of her. And then there's this chance to tell you about the. This fascinating woman who knew every famous person of the era and is very indicative, but whose life is wild and very unique, but also has these, like, touch points that anyone can relate to of, like, being torn between relationships or, you know, blended families or, you know, having kids who have real problems and, you know, dealing with drugs or your own, like, health scares and sicknesses. And also what it's like to age in the public eye and choose in this age where we all know what a deep plane facelift is and who may or may not have had one. Some public and some not. She didn't do really any of that. I think she got like a sprinkle of Botox every once in a while, and that's it. You know, she aged like a, you know, a person does without intervention, and that's also pretty wild.

[Choma Manati]

And managed to make it look in insanely effortless still.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that part was, I think, pretty effortless. Like, she would joke like, should I get my eyes done? But it was like, oh, my. She's not gonna do it. That's too much work and effort and, you know, she, she joked in British Vogue, you know, years ago that she. She was aging in a Patti Smith kind of way, best kind of way to age.

[Choma Manati]

I mean, it's interesting what you said, because I definitely came away from this book thinking, wow, here's a woman who really. We use this word so much. Authentic, authentic, authentic. But she just, she lived her life in a way that was truly authentic and I think didn't lived a life without regrets. You know, it's just really inspiring to read, to read her story and how she dealt with all these quite. These big, monumental things in her life and things that weren't always happy, things that were sometimes sad and difficult. And she sort of made her way through without looking back, like anyone has to.

[Marissa Meltzer]

And so I think that there is. I like that there's that sort of tension in the book between a life that's cinematic, that's a life that most people will never have, and also these things that everyone deals with, you know, your parents aging and stuff like that. And so I think that that makes the book kind of fun where there's universal elements and then there's total fantasy elements. But I'm glad that, that you had that experience. I did too, writing it.

[Sam Sussman]

Yeah.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. And I mean, I'm curious. I know you're back in Paris. What is it like looking around, what do you. Do you see? How do you define French girl style now? I mean, do you think there are still similar markers? Do you think that this idea that for sure. Because I sometimes wonder is like, is this for real? Like, is this French girl style thing, like, legit?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yes and no. I mean, I think that one thing we have to remember is that like Jane Birkin, like Josephine Baker, like Marie Antoinette, some of the most sort of iconic French girl style sort of people, Jean Seineberg, are immigrants to France. And they are, you know, Marie Antoinette was from Austria. Austria, you know, Jane Birkin was from London. Gene Seberg was from America. Josephine Baker was American as well. And so they're bringing, you know, these sort of outside elements to kind of help codify French style. But, you know, I was just on the bus in Paris earlier today, and everyone on the bus kind of commuting in Paris, there's this kind of, you know, pulled togetherness, this kind of like, like, I feel like people here shop in kind of thinking about an outfit and a look in a way that Americans definitely do not. And so I, you know, there is this kind of cohesion here and people are, you know, they're wearing sandals, but they're Wearing like a high heeled sandal. And then, you know, they're wearing. There's just less of a sloppy than in America, which I love about America. I love how kind of like pulled together looks and sloppy and kind of also you get the kind of like brand horror aspect in America, which I love too. Like, people are just, you know, excited to wear their things. But in Paris, it's like, it's a little bit quieter, it's a little bit, you know, even amongst people that are young, it's like a little bit more adult. But I do think that like the French girl style that you see online is an outfit absolute joke. Like people are not, you know, they act like every woman is wearing like a striped shirt and like, you know, that's not it. That's. It seems like it's from people that have never set foot in Paris. But there is a thing of French girl style.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, for sure. No, I, I totally agree. I mean, speaking of, I do think her daughters kind of have carried that talk to us a bit, a little bit about. About how they've kind of created their own cause. You know, it must be hard when your mother's also like the it girl of all it girls and then you.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Have to do it. Do you imagine the pressure?

[Choma Manati]

Yeah. No.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah. I mean, I have a complicated enough relationship with my mother who is not famous in any way. Like, so she had three daughters spaced apart in age with three different men. So one, Kate Berry died in like 2013. And then she had Charlotte Gainsbourg with Serge Gainsbourg in the early 70s. And then she had Lou Doyon with the French director Jacques Doyle in the early 80s. And so Lou and Charlotte are both pretty famous in their own right, you know, internationally, I would say. Charlotte is, you know, famous around the world and is kind of like she's the keeper of the temple of Serge Gainsbourg. Even though he had, I think four kids, she's kind of the most famous and the one that sort of seems to have taken on this kind of like she has the house and turned it into a museum along with the help of St. Laurent and narrates the tour and made a documentary about her mother that has some of the last footage of her alive. And. And then Lou Doyon is, you know, a singer and you know, her music and sort of image. She's like fairly well known as a model and has done a lot of work. And then her first daughter Kate, before she died, was a pretty well known photographer and shot for like Vanity Fair and you know, different French Brands and a lot of different famous people like Isabel Hubert. And so they all kind of got into these creative fields which, you know, you see there were that kind of like, you know, family, you know, genes must be really creative because it's generations now. But that's also such a. It's so stressful. I can't imagine having following one of my parents. And I, you know, I have completely different.

[Choma Manati]

Um.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, I've always been very different from my own parents. And so it's hard for me to imagine, you know, I'm. I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but my father is. And I can't imagine someone recognizing me for that or something like that.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, no, it is. It is quite impressive that they've been able to kind of. They hold their own quite nicely and they seem quite.

[Marissa Meltzer]

They have. And I think they. Because they're their. In their 50s and 40s, they came of age as kind of it girls on their own. But before this kind of Nepo baby discourse.

[Choma Manati]

Yeah, that's true.

[Marissa Meltzer]

That we're having that I think is a bit boring. Yeah, I think we've all gotten tired of just like calling people out, you know, it's like, yeah, you got me. Like, my mom is Sophia Coppola. Not hiding it. You know, I think they were able to avoid some of that, which is nice. And also. Also grew up mostly in Paris where I think there's less of that. Like, it seems like more of a tradition to go into, you know, follow your parents into like acting or music and modeling. And also it's a country where actors like record albums all the time or have like one man or woman shows or model. And it's way more free form the way that Jane Birkin was and Serge Gansbourg too.

[Choma Manati]

True, true. Well, Marissa, it has been an absolute pleasure having you back on the show.

[Marissa Meltzer]

The pleasure is all mine.

[Choma Manati]

And. And good luck with the rest of your book tour and that's exciting.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Thank you. I hope to see you in person soon.

[Sponsor]

And that's it for the show.

[Chloe Mel]

We will see you guys soon.

[Sponsor]

The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Kariuki.

[Chloe Mel]

It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost.

[Sponsor]

It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global Audio. When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like an iconic Dior saddle but bag or a stunning diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that never disappoint. Expertly authenticated. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace, brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be besties with your other handbag, or an eternally classic watch like a Rolex oyster or Cartier tank. You know the one. EBay's experts ensure that you're getting the real deal. That way you can be confident that the designer finds you came for the luxury wardrobe you've always wanted to wanted. It's all real. In fact, it's verified authentic. So bring your high standards and never limit what you can truly find. Yeah, ebay the place for new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion. Ebay Things people love.

[Choma Manati]

From prx.