How Tory Burch Built a Fashion Empire | PLUS Anok Yai is British Vogue’s Cover Star

Summary

The Run-Through with Vogue Episode: How Tory Burch Built a Fashion Empire | PLUS Anok Yai is British Vogue’s Cover Star
Date: May 14, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Run-Through with Vogue is a deep dive into two major stories at the intersection of fashion and culture:

• Tory Burch on Building a Fashion Empire:
  Nicole Phelps conducts an in-depth, candid interview with designer Tory Burch, recorded live at the Vogue Cafe in New York ahead of the Met Gala. The conversation explores Burch’s origins, inspirations, business philosophy, her Foundation, career challenges, and advice for aspiring designers.

• Anok Yai’s British Vogue Cover:
  British Vogue’s Chioma Nnadi, Radhika Seth, and Laura Ingham discuss the creation of June’s emotional cover story featuring Anok Yai, focusing on the significance of representation, fashion curation, and Yai’s personal journey after her recent health revelation.

Additional conversations range from Cannes Film Festival plans to the return of iconic fashion trends and the buzz of London’s cultural scene.

---

I. Anok Yai: British Vogue’s June Cover

(00:33 – 10:19)

Key Points

• Anok Yai’s Remarkable Year:
  The Vogue team talks about Anok’s intense year, including her recovery from a serious heart condition and this being her first major interview post-diagnosis.
• The Cover’s Emotional Resonance:
  • The shoot, styled by Kate Phelan and photographed by Raphael Pavarotti, was a collaborative effort to capture both personal intimacy and high fashion.
  • Anok’s parents were flown to Paris for the shoot, adding emotional weight and authenticity.
• Fashion Direction:
  • A conscious decision to showcase Anok in autumn/winter runway looks, emphasizing silhouette, color, and texture.
  • The storytelling aimed for both tenderness and on-trend vibrancy.

Quotes & Highlights

• “Every time I look at it, I just think about how beautiful it is... There were several tears on set.”
  – Chioma Nnadi (01:00)
• “Raf loves texture, shine, and vibrant color. And you see that in the images.”
  – Laura Ingham (03:04)
• “She never stops working. She just gives absolutely everything to that image. Her dialogue with the team is so clear.”
  – Laura Ingham (04:57)
• “She’s become a supermodel. We talk about that word a lot, but she is that.”
  – Chioma Nnadi (04:16)

---

II. Cannes, Red Carpets, and Fashion Packing Tips

(05:37 – 14:58)

Key Points

• Packing for Cannes:
  • The editors share the practical anxieties around packing for high-profile events, red carpet rules (e.g., heels vs. flats), and the value of mix-and-match wardrobes.
  • Radhika Seth discusses her experience wearing Mary Janes on the red carpet and being nearly turned away for not following the unwritten dress code (06:32).
• Anticipation for Cannes Films:
  • Highlights include “Fjord” by Christian Mungiu, “Paper Tiger” starring Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver, and comedies like “Full Phil” with Kristen Stewart.
  • Excitement surrounds the filming of HBO’s “White Lotus” at the festival.
• Standout London Culture Moments:
  • Meadow Walker’s Celine jeans on the red carpet and Joan Collins (92 years old) in heels are called out as style highlights.
  • Joan Collins’ Vogue interview described as “one of the funniest things I’ve ever read in the magazine.” (12:47 – Radhika)

---

III. London & LA: Fashion and Social Highlights

(14:58 – 21:36)

Key Points

• Garden Party at Buckingham Palace:
  • Chioma plans her outfit, opting for an orange Erdem dress and a classic Tory Burch cardigan, reflecting on British dress codes and hat culture.
• Chloe’s Dispatch from LA:
  • Chloe sends a voice note from the Dior show at LACMA, sharing celebrity encounters and the buzz around Jonathan Anderson’s art-focused show.
    • “Sam Sussman pulled off a daring feat... She left her apartment in Manhattan at 6:33 and made it onto the plane by 7:33. Shock and awe.” – Chloe (15:22)
• Upcoming Fashion Events in New York:
  • Laura Ingham preps for Gucci and Vuitton shows, reflecting the busy, nomadic lives of fashion editors.

---

IV. Tory Burch’s Journey: Live Interview with Nicole Phelps

(23:20 – 61:49)

Key Discussion Points

1. Work Ethic & Day-to-Day Life (23:31 – 24:47)

• Tory’s “no lunch out in 20 years” myth debunked: she simply works long hours and keeps a hands-on presence.
  • “Sometimes people come up to me and they’re like, ‘Do you go into the office?’ I’m like, yeah, I go into the office. And it’s almost as if they think I didn’t work.” (24:00)

2. Met Gala Stories & Fashion Philosophy (24:47 – 27:12)

• First Met Gala memory: went to the after-party as a twentysomething before she attended the dinner as an established designer (2005).
• On dressing stars for the Met: “It is a collaboration... we want to do something different. I think a lot about what emotion and confidence and how they’ll feel.” (26:03)
• 2026 Met Gala focus: intersection of art and fashion, stemming from Burch’s background as an art history major.

3. Family, Art, and Inspiration (27:12 – 29:09)

• Burch’s designs are deeply personal, influenced by family heirlooms, eclectic collectors, and art history.
• Recent inspiration: juxtaposing Romal Hudsami’s contemporary African masks with a 17th-century old master painting in her Paris home.

4. The Tory Burch Foundation (29:08 – 33:13)

• Foundation started in 2009 to support women entrepreneurs in the U.S. through mentorship, community, and access to capital.
  • “Women are a great investment. They’re gritty, they’re tenacious. They’re building businesses that last.” (29:44)
• Personal learnings: resilience, optimism, building community, and the need for men in gender equality conversations (31:36).
• “You can be entrepreneurial in anything you do... that was my point also of honoring Anna Wintour. She didn’t start a business, but she transformed an industry.” (32:30)

5. Early Career and Brand Origins (33:13 – 38:59)

• Cold-called designer Zoran while still at university; learned about “drama behind the scenes” and no-nonsense culture of old-school fashion.
• Decision to found her own company driven by a gap between designer price points and high street – aiming for accessible luxury.
• First store opened in Nolita, NYC (Feb 2004) – a risk that paid off as word-of-mouth cleared out inventory in its first day.

6. Brand Culture and Leadership (39:09 – 43:40)

• “Buddy Values”: egalitarian ethos inherited from her father – treating “a cab driver the same as the Queen of England.”
• Focus on building a non-toxic, supportive culture with work-life balance and honesty.

7. Surviving Crises (Divorce, 2008, COVID, Lawsuits) (41:32 – 46:06)

• Faced public divorce and lawsuits (“my ex-husband told me it was a 10-year misunderstanding”).
• Adapted with transparency: “We went on Twitter and said, this is what’s happening and please bear with us.” (43:09)
• On COVID pandemic: advocated for retail sector support, managed layoffs, and dealt with personal loss.

8. Creative Evolution & Letting Go of the CEO Role (47:13 – 49:12)

• Major shift after appointing husband Pierre-Yves Roussel as CEO:
  • “I now do 100% of the creative for the last seven years... I wanted to make it better... less of everything and everything with more integrity.” (48:10)

9. Design Inspiration and Longevity (49:12 – 52:55)

• Inspired by her father’s personal style and classic longevity (“I want pieces that will last... that you wouldn’t assign a year or trend to.”)
• Tory Burch menswear? Not planned, but men and her sons wear her brand (51:00).
• Designing custom ballet flats for the Met Gala – including for Anderson Paak.

10. Personal Style, Vintage, and Iconic Designers (52:55 – 56:16)

• Live auctioneers obsession: loves collecting pottery and rare finds.
• Inspiration from Claire McCardell, “the mother of American sportswear,” and the importance of comfort, ease, and American fashion ingenuity.

11. What’s Next? (58:52 – 60:00)

• Preview: dog accessories and a charity TV show for dogs.
• “I went to speak at your event the morning after I lost my dog for three days in NYC... ever since, I’ve wanted to do something around dogs.”

12. Advice for Aspiring Designers (60:00 – 61:43)

• “Negativity is noise... Tune it out. Thicken your skin.”
• “If you want to get into fashion... have your own point of view... and believe in yourself.”
• “Women have the power. We’re not bestowing it; you all have it within you.” (60:45)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I want pieces that will last. That’s where I put a lot of my effort, is actually looking at something and saying, I will want to wear this in five years or ten years, or give it to my daughter, or my sister, or whatever.”
  – Tory Burch (49:45)
• “You can be entrepreneurial in anything you do. You can work at Vogue and approach it in an entrepreneurial way.”
  – Tory Burch (32:15)
• “Negativity is noise and that has served me well. If you want to get into fashion, you should... have your own point of view.”
  – Tory Burch (60:15)
• “Women are a great investment. They’re gritty, they’re tenacious. They’re building businesses that last.”
  – Tory Burch (29:44)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Anok Yai Cover Discussion: 00:33 – 10:19
• Fashion Event Packing & Cannes: 05:37 – 14:58
• LA Dior Show Dispatch: 15:22 – 17:03
• London Social & Red Carpet Style: 17:03 – 21:36
• Nicole Phelps Interviews Tory Burch: 23:20 – 61:49
  • Launching Tory Burch: 33:13
  • The Foundation: 29:08, 32:15
  • COVID and Crisis: 41:32, 44:20
  • Creative Evolution: 47:13
  • Advice for Young Designers: 60:00

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, insightful, and supportive, with candid anecdotes from the frontlines of fashion. The episode’s tone is conversational, warm, and empowering—mirroring the personalities of both the Vogue team and Tory Burch herself. There’s a blend of practical advice, personal storytelling, and genuine excitement about upcoming trends and events.

---

This summary covers the episode’s essential topics, key moments, vibrant discussions, and practical insights for listeners interested in fashion, culture, and creative entrepreneurship.

Transcript

[Choma Nardi]

This is a run through. I'm Choma Nardi and today Chloe is away in LA for the Dior show at lacma. She sent us a very fun voice note that we'll share later. But now I'm in the London studio with my colleagues Radhika Seth and Laura Ingham. Can you guys introduce yourselves to our wonderful listeners, please?

[Radhika Seth]

Yes. Hi, I'm Radhika, the film and culture editor of British Vogue.

[Laura Ingham]

And hi, I'm Laura Ingham, the deputy director of the Global Fashion Network.

[Choma Nardi]

Well, you guys are pretty much regulars, but I thought it would be good to reintroduce yourselves on today's episode. Our co host Nicole Phelps is speaking to the fabulous Tory Burch for a live taping at the Vogue Cafe in New York ahead of the Met Gala. They talked about her career, her inspirations, the flats that she dressed Anderson Paak in for the Met and also gave advice to aspiring fashion designers. So stick around to hear that fabulous conversation. But first, our June cover is out and it, it is of the beautiful Enochioi and I'm just so excited about it. Every time I look at it, I just think about how beautiful it is. It was styled by Kate Phelan and photographed by Raphael Pavarotti. And our dear Fumifeto, our beauty and wellness director, did the interview and it's quite an emotional read. It's quite an emotional story. I really wanted her mother and father to be and so we were able to fly them over to Paris for this. So it was a really special moment and I, I understand that there were several tears on set from Anok, who really reveres her parents and there's a very sweet relationship between them. And obviously she's had such an intense year. She revealed earlier in the year that she'd been undergoing treatment for a very serious heart condition that she has. And this is the first time that she's speaking since she revealed that diagnosis. I have so many thoughts about it, but Laura, I know that you worked on pulling looks and we talked a lot about the shoot and why it had to be joyful. Can you talk a bit about the fashion for this story?

[Laura Ingham]

Yeah, I mean, it's so beautiful to see it in print. The first issues just came and hit Choma's desk, so we're so excited to see it because it's so beautiful and all of those conversations we had about how you wanted it to feel so personal to her, but also for the images to feel tender and intimate, really into play and I think play out in the story not to mention, of course, Fumi's really beautiful interview. So when we're working on the fashion, it's quite a lot when you're kind of trying to convey that through the fashion. So we work really closely with Kate and Raph. It's a real collaboration. We decided that we really wanted to showcase a nok in the new season autumn winter collection. So we started pulling from Fresh from the Runway. We really focused on shape, color connection, silhouette. They were kind of the key words that we were talking about.

[Nicole Phelps]

Of course.

[Laura Ingham]

Raph loves texture, shine, and vibrant color. And you see that in the interplay and the images. I mean, it's so beautiful to see how Raf's references that he sent us then play into the fashion. And then the final images, the picture of with her mom, her braiding her hair.

[Choma Nardi]

That one is one of my favorite images. It's so emotional.

[Laura Ingham]

It really is. It kind of really hits you, doesn't it? And I think just seeing her father as well in his own clothes and

[Choma Nardi]

I think you can really sharp suit he has.

[Laura Ingham]

Yeah, the best dress.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes, totally. You can see where she gets her love of fashion.

[Laura Ingham]

So I think it's so nice to have that mix. And that really makes it feel very authentic and very real as well as feeling very polished and really that kind of high fashion messaging at the same time.

[Radhika Seth]

And it's so stunning. I'm just seeing it for the first time.

[Tory Burch]

I know.

[Choma Nardi]

I was gonna say, like, give me your initial thoughts.

[Radhika Seth]

I just had like a weird flashback while you were talking, because I interviewed Anouk, like in 2018.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, wow.

[Radhika Seth]

When I was at British Vogue and she like came in, it was like a go see. And I had a chat with her and we put it online and that was like many, many, almost 10 years ago, which is so crazy to see how much she's done in this time. And she just looks incredible.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, yeah. She's really come into her own. I remember doing an interview around the same time with her. She was quite shy and she was still kind of learning the ropes, but her enthusiasm and she was just so happy to be in the room, you know. And it was for a cover story that we did with about 16 models. It was like a global cover story. And you could just tell that she. She had a star quality and she wanted to also to be a voice. Like, she's developed her personality. She brings so much to. She's become a supermodel. You know, I. We talk about supermodels and the word gets thrown around a lot, but she

[Laura Ingham]

is that I'm so lucky to have been on a few sets with her. And she never stops working. She just gives absolutely everything to that image. Her dialogue with the team that she's working with is so clear.

[Choma Nardi]

I know. I mean, she was model of the year and what a crazy year she's had. The highs and lows. And it just shows you she was just holding all these different emotions at once. Like, what a powerful. What a powerful woman.

[Laura Ingham]

My best dress to the Met as well.

[Tory Burch]

Oh, my God.

[Laura Ingham]

No.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah. Especially with those prosthetic tears.

[Laura Ingham]

I could. I mean, and the hair.

[Choma Nardi]

It was incredible.

[Laura Ingham]

She looked amazing.

[Radhika Seth]

So good.

[Choma Nardi]

But I wanted to ask you, are you all packed for Cannes? Are you ready?

[Radhika Seth]

I'm not, actually. I have to go do that after this.

[Nicole Phelps]

Are you kidding me?

[Choma Nardi]

How do you. Don't you have to, like, pack like, red carpety cocktail looks? I always get paranoid about that. I'd have to be packing evening looks to me. Gives me the most anxiety. Everything else does it really.

[Laura Ingham]

I'm the same. I'm the same.

[Tory Burch]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

And I'm packing for work and I know that there's many. Multiple nights. Cause how many cocktail looks do you have to.

[Radhika Seth]

Well, I think it's a few parties, but I think generally I'll be mostly watching loads of stuff in like a very dark room, so I think that's lucky. But I actually don't have checked luggage this year, so.

[Tory Burch]

Oh, wow.

[Choma Nardi]

So you've got to do it with a carry on.

[Laura Ingham]

So you can.

[Choma Nardi]

With a carry on, girl. This is a story.

[Laura Ingham]

There's a piece in this. I was about to say, I'm ready for this.

[Radhika Seth]

So I think maybe like, a couple of things that I can wear a few times is the safest for me, but luckily it's not.

[Choma Nardi]

And what's the footwear? Do you adhere to all the rules? Do you do flats? Do you do heels? What's.

[Radhika Seth]

So I have been turned away before.

[Laura Ingham]

Breaking news.

[Radhika Seth]

I know this. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've worn. Yeah. Because you know me, I wear flats. Like, I don't. I don't really wear heels.

[Choma Nardi]

Versus why I can would be an absolute disaster for me. I wear kitten heels, I guess.

[Radhika Seth]

Okay. And then that's. But I remember, like, going to the red carpet and what kind of shoe?

[Choma Nardi]

What was the shoe?

[Radhika Seth]

I think it was like a flat Mary Jane. But it was like I was told, like I wasn't even told anything. She just looked down at my feet and just sort of looked at me and I was like, oh, okay. But luckily they allowed me to go into the screening, just not walk the red carpet.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, gosh. Maybe you were spared. I hated the red carpet.

[Radhika Seth]

But, yeah, I think if they were like, you have to leave, which they could do. It's. It's not great, but I just can't. I mean, there's so much running between screenings and things. It's all very tight. I just don't know if I can do it in heels, Jim. Even if it's tiny ones, I don't know if I can do it.

[Choma Nardi]

And today you wrote this fab piece about what we might expect with White Lotus being filmed simultaneously.

[Radhika Seth]

I know. So it's sort of like my wish list of, like, what hopefully will turn up in the show. Because also they'll be filming it while I'm there. And I think I heard that Mike White, the creator of White Lotus, and some of his cast are also walking the red carpet in the second week at some point. So that will be like, quite buzzy and fun, I think. Right. But also, I'm just so curious to see what are they gonna film, like, what are they picking up? And they're filming for like six months, so it's lots of other stuff as well.

[Choma Nardi]

Right.

[Radhika Seth]

But this week I'm like, are they getting, like, famous cameos?

[Choma Nardi]

This might be the week. Right.

[Laura Ingham]

I can't even imagine the production scale to film live like that at the festival. Having seen a little bit we were just talking about. I know that we've talked a lot about the Devil Wears Prada, but having seen them film that in Milan during Fashion Week and to see, like, what kind of what goes into that and then what ultimately makes the edit on this sort of scale at the festival

[Choma Nardi]

be fascinating and so top few things that you're looking forward to at Cannes. Because I always. I always wonder what you're gonna be looking out for, movie wise.

[Radhika Seth]

Yes. So my most anticipated is this film called Fjord, and it's by the director Christian Mungui. He made four months, three weeks and two days. If you saw that film, that won the Palme d' or, like, many years ago. And it's got my queen, Renate Rheinzver in it. We love it.

[Laura Ingham]

We do.

[Radhika Seth]

So her back on the Cannes red carpet, always, always so good. And Sebastian Stan as well. And it's set, I believe, in Norway. And it's a story about a Romanian family moving to Norway and kind of what they face when they're there. It sounds pretty good, potentially. So that will be fun to see. I think the starriest Film this year is Paper Tiger with Scarlett Johansson and Adam driver. Set in, like, 80s New York. It's like a family story with maybe some crime elements as well. So that will be interesting to see what that's like. Also this film called Her Private Hell, which. Which is.

[Choma Nardi]

Love the title.

[Radhika Seth]

Great title.

[Choma Nardi]

Sign me up. I'm there.

[Radhika Seth]

Do you guys like the Neon Demon? What are your thoughts about the Neon Demon?

[Choma Nardi]

You know, I don't watch horror, so.

[Radhika Seth]

Okay, so you.

[Choma Nardi]

I'm tapping out of this question.

[Laura Ingham]

I'm saying I'm a scaredy cat, so

[Tory Burch]

I can't do it.

[Choma Nardi]

I'm like, I can't sleep after that.

[Laura Ingham]

No. I've got my imagination. It takes me same.

[Radhika Seth]

Also this film called Full Phil, which is a Kristen Stewart comedy.

[Choma Nardi]

Okay.

[Radhika Seth]

And it's about her and Woody Harrison plays her dad.

[Nicole Phelps]

And.

[Radhika Seth]

And it was described by the director as like, Emily in Paris in Hell.

[Laura Ingham]

Wow.

[Radhika Seth]

Which sounds great. So they, like, go to Paris and, like, try to reconnect.

[Choma Nardi]

New destination for Emily.

[Radhika Seth]

I know. And it's like. Has those, like, food poisoning. A lot of things go wrong, apparently. So really pumped for that one, actually.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, my God. That sounds. That sounds really fun.

[Radhika Seth]

So, like, lots of great stuff coming up. And also the Avedon documentary we should mention as well, because that. From Ron Howard. Yeah, Lots of really, really good stuff, and I'm very excited.

[Laura Ingham]

How long are you there for?

[Radhika Seth]

A week. So just over a week.

[Laura Ingham]

Okay.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah.

[Laura Ingham]

Moving in. Hand luggage only.

[Radhika Seth]

That's a long time.

[Choma Nardi]

Good luck.

[Tory Burch]

I mean, what are we gonna do? I don't know.

[Choma Nardi]

You're gonna have to have some. Yeah. I think if you. It's so funny. I went to the Elias sample sale, so I got some of their.

[Radhika Seth]

Oh, you did?

[Laura Ingham]

Hold on, Choma. We haven't spoken about this.

[Choma Nardi]

I know, I know. I didn't have much luck last time, but there were lots of the pieces that are very, very like. I think I got them because they're so packable.

[Tory Burch]

Really?

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah. I love a skirt over. Over pants. And they had. They had this in bright pink and. And a bright pink top. And it's something that I could literally throw in a suitcase. And they just had lots of packable evening wear, so I should have tipped you after that, but next time.

[Radhika Seth]

Yes, please. I was gonna go actually, but I couldn't in the end because this is. I don't know if I spoke to you about this, but I'm getting married in June and I'm wearing a liar.

[Choma Nardi]

Lovely segue.

[Tory Burch]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

Y. Wow. So tell us about. Can you tell us anything about it. You don't want to give too much away, obviously before the wedding.

[Tory Burch]

Yes.

[Choma Nardi]

Did you, did you buy it recently?

[Radhika Seth]

Yes, really recently. And I'm getting married in a month, so it's been really last minute actually. But I've just been umming and eyeing about it for so long.

[Choma Nardi]

You're gonna have to write about it. Sorry guys. Now that I told you got married in a liar, the headline writes itself.

[Radhika Seth]

Oh my God. All I'll say is it's pink.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, beautiful.

[Radhika Seth]

But because I'm Bengali and like a traditional color for a Bengali bride is. Is pink. But I wouldn't wear like a sari. It didn't feel quite right. So I was like, how do I kind of meet it in the middle somewhere? So that's where I landed. But I got it before I went to the sale. So I was like, okay, I'm not gonna, not gonna buy more stuff.

[Choma Nardi]

I'm so excited for you.

[Laura Ingham]

That's amazing.

[Choma Nardi]

I love. It's my favorite color. Basically.

[Radhika Seth]

You know how much often I wear pink.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes, I know. I think we're kindred pink spirits. Anyway, I've gone left as usual. I've drifted. I've drifted. But I did want to talk a little bit about the few looks that we've seen on the red carpet so far. I loved Meadow Walker in jeans. In new Celine, which I loved. Michael Ryder is killing it. And I thought she looked so fresh and so great to get. Meadow Walker, Paul Walker's daughter. I'm not sure what she's in coming up, but love to see her and then Joan Collins. I think you were someone who called her out to me this morning in one of our meetings.

[Laura Ingham]

I know. Well because we just, we shot her. Well, Venetia shot her for her biopic. And to see her on the carpet at 92, it's amazing.

[Choma Nardi]

She's wearing heels.

[Radhika Seth]

Not a cancer.

[Choma Nardi]

I think there's an age limit. It's like driving. You give up the heels. High heels. But I just love her commitment. She looks incredible. And she is in. She's going to be playing the Duchess of Windsor with Isabella Rossellini.

[Radhika Seth]

Can I just say, Hayley Maitland, our lovely colleague's piece on Joan is one of the funniest things I've ever read in the magazine. It's so, so good.

[Choma Nardi]

Please go and read it. I mean, I don't want to give it all away.

[Radhika Seth]

No, no, I'm not going to say anymore.

[Choma Nardi]

But just knowing what's in her living. I think Hailey arrived and she was finishing up a Pilates session with her personal trainer, and she was, like, in a living room surrounded by pictures of herself. So I think it was quite an interesting scene.

[Radhika Seth]

She was wearing trackies and a giant crucifix. And I feel like. I just thought, that's it. Like, you could end the piece. Like, it was so, so good. It's so good. It's so funny. And the project sounds really fascinating.

[Choma Nardi]

Well, tomorrow I'm going to the palace.

[Radhika Seth]

Oh, you are?

[Choma Nardi]

To the annual garden party. The Buckingham palace garden party. And the dress code is really strict. I'm just hoping it doesn't rain because the weather has been. Spring has really not sprung here yet. Apparently, spring will show up next week. Okay.

[Laura Ingham]

I've heard the same. We've had the showers. We've had hail today. I hope you don't get hailed tomorrow. I know.

[Choma Nardi]

I'm just like, is there a contingency plan of where do. Where does the garden party happen at the Buckingham Palace? Does it go inside?

[Radhika Seth]

It's like a marquee or something.

[Laura Ingham]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Choma Nardi]

I'll report back. I'm wearing Erdem. I think I've got this really beautiful orange, burnt orange dress that would look great on you, actually. It's a color. I would say I wanted to get a red cardigan because I know that you would have paired it with red because I always love your color blocking. But I wasn't able to find one. So I'm going with gray. Slate gray. A slate gray Tory Burch. A cardi that I have. I'm a very commit to the cardi, but you have to. I'm not going with the hat, which is something that they do suggest, but it's not compulsory. Highly recommend. It's not compulsory.

[Laura Ingham]

It's not compulsory.

[Nicole Phelps]

Right.

[Laura Ingham]

I heard this before.

[Choma Nardi]

It's not compulsory, but you have to wear a suit, trouser suit, or dress. And there should be some sort of hat. But I think this year, I've never. I'm not a hat person. Can't get with it. I've been a hat person in. I've done the fedora, you know, the alts. There was a time when you wouldn't see me without fedora. Wow. Yeah. But that time is gone, so we're moving on from.

[Radhika Seth]

The perfect place to bring it back is.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, maybe wasn't there a season that Saint Laurent had, like. I don't know. I can't. There's no hat that I can see myself. I don't know anyway, but we shall see. Speaking of fashion shows, our lovely Chloe is in LA right now at the Dior show. And so we'll get a lovely voice note from her.

[Chloe]

All right. We are in the car at lax, me and Samantha Sussman fresh off our flight from New York City. Our flight left at 8am Sam Sussman pulled off a daring feat. She left her apartment in lower Manhattan at 6:33 and made it onto the plane by 7:33. Shock and awe. I of course, basically slept at the airport. Samantha, how are you feeling?

[Tory Burch]

Feeling great.

[Nicole Phelps]

We are.

[Choma Nardi]

Take Chloe and Sam.

[Tory Burch]

Take la. I can't wait to. I'm gonna add some color to this story.

[Chloe]

We had a packed flight with Dior goers like Grace Gummer, Sam Hein. And now we're off to the Peninsula, which we are very happy about. Tonight there is a welcome dinner at Chaplain Request Recording Studios, which I was

[Tory Burch]

talking to

[Chloe]

some elderly Los Angelenos, I. E. My mother and uncle, about last night. And they were saying that that was Charlie Chaplin's original recording studios and then it was where A M Records would record everything. So I'm really excited. And that Jim Henson did a lot of Muppet work there, which is very exciting to me. So that's going to be a fun moment. And they're doing Dior. Resort show is tomorrow evening at the new Geffen Galleries at lacma, which is the same location that Vanity Fair had its Oscar party this March.

[Choma Nardi]

They're offering tours after the show, so I'm excited.

[Chloe]

I know I love a museum at night.

[Tory Burch]

Famously, famously private tours.

[Choma Nardi]

I always love her voice notes. But I also know that, Laura, you are gonna be packing soon for New York.

[Laura Ingham]

I am.

[Choma Nardi]

Gucci, Are you ready? I'm just so curious about the location.

[Laura Ingham]

Me too. I know we're speculating. We were just on a call with our colleagues in New York and they were like, maybe we think it might be here. We can't say Gucci won't. Are very tight lipped about it. Sew Evita on their shows later next week as well. I'm going to take more than hand luggage. They read.

[Radhika Seth]

I was going to say how much? How much are you?

[Choma Nardi]

What are you packing?

[Laura Ingham]

I share, I share Choma's fear for evening events. We know that there's a dinner on the Friday night and then the Gucci show is at 9pm on Saturday night.

[Choma Nardi]

So basically you're wearing like cocktail.

[Laura Ingham]

Yeah. So we need to be in something or other. Super smart. And then we'll re see everything on the Sunday and then we kind of switch over and then Vuitton's on the Wednesday early evening, I think. But still no clue as to where these shows are going to be. But I'm excited to hear from Chloe because Jonathan's show in la, his first show in the States, I'm quite obsessed that he decided to go to LA for his first creation.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, it's at LACMA though, which makes sense. Which really tracks for Jonathan because he's such a. So embedded in the art world and has such, you know, immaculate taste in art and knows many artists personally. So it makes so much sense he's doing it there. And it's also a fab location.

[Laura Ingham]

Christian Dior took his 1947 show to the U.S. it was his first show there and it was kind of met with protests like around fabrication and around his use of corsetry. So kind of like the twist. But Jonathan's also taking his first cruise shade there as well. Stateside.

[Choma Nardi]

Wow, I didn't know that piece of fashion history.

[Laura Ingham]

I know, it's kind. And also the newspaper print, we were talking about this.

[Choma Nardi]

The newspaper print is well and truly back.

[Laura Ingham]

Yeah. Jonathan posted a picture of the newspaper print bag on his socials. Obviously John first kind of commissioned or presented his newspaper print in I think it was back in 2000. And then Sarah Jessica Parker wore the dress.

[Choma Nardi]

And how much did that dress go for? I think it sold for upwards of.

[Laura Ingham]

It was like I saw something, I've seen different things. I think it was like around $70,000. So. And then we saw Mathieu put some newspaper print dresses in his show in Berrit. So I can't wait to see the

[Choma Nardi]

collection on Monday night. We've had a busy week. Monday night Louisa, Laura and I went to see our colleague. Louisa went to see inter Alia, starring Rosamund pike. And that was. It was incredible, incredible show. And yesterday evening was the opening of 1536. Is it called 1536? Yeah, yeah. Playing that's produced by Margot Robbie and I think it was one of the most star studded crowd. Quentin Tarantino was there, Baz Luhrmann was there. Baz Luhrmann was there. So. And I think it's gonna be turned into a TV show. So it's a real really hot ticket in London, I would say. So there's lots going on here.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah, that's really fun. Cause when I interviewed Margot for our cover story, I said, what's a young writer or director that you love? And she said, Ava Pickett.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, Eva Pickett is the New girl, isn't she?

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

She's writing Baz Luhrmann's Joan of Arc film, I think.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah. And, yeah, Margot was just raving about her. She said that it was, like, the best place she'd ever seen. So I was like, I need to go see this play.

[Choma Nardi]

So one of my favorite shows of. I think it was 2025 that First Rivals came out. Or was it 2024?

[Radhika Seth]

24.

[Choma Nardi]

We've been waiting two years for this. I am so pumped because it was. It's such a cheeky, wonderful adaptation of a very beloved novel by Gilly Cooper, who wrote a fantastic piece for us about what it meant sort of now and then for her to see a novel that she wrote in the 80s about the Cotswolds and the culture there brought to life. So I'm just excited to see it all come back because season one was just delicious. Like, all the things that you want from a TV show. Kind of naughty, a bit of sexy time, a bit of, I mean, the 80s costumes. The 80s costumes.

[Laura Ingham]

I'm here for that.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, it's just so, so good. And then I think season two is getting rave reviews in the premieres tonight.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah, that's right. And then I think the first few episodes come out on Friday. So really soon.

[Choma Nardi]

I have to wait till Friday.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah, okay.

[Choma Nardi]

I can handle that.

[Laura Ingham]

This is perfect timing. I'm downloading for my flight on Friday. I think you are perfect.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, you're gonna love it.

[Radhika Seth]

I like it.

[Choma Nardi]

You're gonna love it. Start with season one. Just. Oh, so good. That's it for the news of the week. The run through will be back in just a moment with Nicole's interview with designer Tory Burch.

[Tory Burch]

Comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical, insightful, profound, wide ranging. Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world.

[Radhika Seth]

I hope you'll join us for the

[Tory Burch]

New Yorker Radio Hour. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Laura Ingham]

Thoughtful, exquisite.

[Nicole Phelps]

Just, you know, real.

[Macy's Personal Stylist (Ad)]

Summer is right around the corner. Which means it's time to start getting excited about all of your summer plans, whether it's cookouts, long weekends, celebrations, music, festivals, beach time, weddings, and everything in between. This summer. I know I'm really excited for the beach. And my aunt has a party every single year at the beach, and I never know what to wear. Luckily for me, I can tap Macy's personal stylist. They'll make sure I Walk away with the perfect outfit. And I'm super confident. Appointments are free, plus you get a 20% discount if you book with them. So shop Macy's online or in store today.

[Nicole Phelps]

Tory Burch, welcome to the run through live from the Vogue cafe in Soho.

[Tory Burch]

Thank you. Thank you so much, Nicole. We've known each other a long time.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, we have.

[Tory Burch]

So it's been so much fun working with you.

[Nicole Phelps]

I want to thank you all for being here at 9am on a Saturday. I was told by Vogue, our events team, that these tickets sold out in four minutes. Tori, you said on a recent podcast that I listened to that you haven't had lunch during the week in 20 years since you founded your brand. As busy as you are, I want to know what a typical Saturday morning at 9am is like for you.

[Tory Burch]

Well, I should say lunch out. I eat lunch. But no, I mean, and the reason I said that is because sometimes people come up to me and they're like, do you go into the office? I'm like, yeah, I go into the office. And it's almost as if they think I didn't work. And so that's why I said I haven't had lunch in 21 years. A typical Saturday morning. Okay. I'm a dog lover. I'm obsessed with my dogs. I have three boys and their friends are generally like, spewing all over our apartment in some way. But yeah, I wake up. I tend to wake up later on a Saturday. But first call my mom, of course, and then take the dogs for a walk. So it's a little more. I'm not really dressed in sparkly shoes.

[Nicole Phelps]

So of course, this is not a regular Saturday. We are about 48 or so hours out from the Met Gala, and that is obviously top of mind for all of us at Ed Vogue. We want to know about your first Met Gala.

[Tory Burch]

I used to go to the Met after the Met, after the dinner, it was all everyone, all the older people would go and there was this dance party where it's like maybe 500 people would then pour into the Met. And it was so much fun. So that was my first experience at the Met. It was really about going to the after party. And I was probably in my 20s and then I was looking at a picture. The earliest I found when I went to the dinner was probably in 2005.

[Nicole Phelps]

Do you remember what you were wearing?

[Tory Burch]

I was wearing a vintage Dior dress.

[Radhika Seth]

Ooh.

[Jessie Sevchak]

Wow.

[Tory Burch]

It was right when I started my company.

[Nicole Phelps]

So tell us a bit about your Met Gala prep this year. Last Year, you dressed Pamela Anderson, the actress and cultural icon, as well as the actress and director Janica Bravo. How do you approach dressing talent versus creating a collection? And what do you like about the collaborative process between a star and yourself?

[Tory Burch]

Yeah, I mean, it's so different because it is a collaboration, and that's kind of the amazing thing. I'm sort of looking at who they are and sort of what they've worn in the past, also because we want to do something different. You know, I think a lot about when I dress people, what emotion and confidence and how they'll feel. And so we start there. I often ask them if they want to put together a small mood board, because I kind of want to get into their head. And so that is where the collaboration starts. We talk about fabrics or embroideries or colors, and so it's an iterative process.

[Nicole Phelps]

And without telling us what you yourself are wearing on Monday night, how do you decide what you're going to wear?

[Tory Burch]

It's a challenge, you know, because I'm so focused on the people we're dressing that I tend to leave me for last. So this year, I'm wearing vintage.

[Nicole Phelps]

Okay, well, we will be watching closely. So this year's Met Gala theme is quite up your alley, I think, actually, it is about the connection between and the intersection between art and fashion. Tell us how art inspires your work.

[Tory Burch]

Well, I was an art history major. I went to Penn. So art I grew up with in sort of a different kind of way. My parents, I wouldn't say they're collectors of all kinds of things, and it was never really about a price point. It was about things that they had a connection with. My grandfather had suits of armor, so I was, like, thinking about even that kind of fashion. My parents love folk art. They love pottery. So there was always, like, this eclectic sort of feel. But when it's kind of, it goes back to emotion, too. When you think about when I design, it's how it makes you feel. When you look at a painting or a sculpture, it's how it makes you feel. So when you walk through the Met, fashion carries through every part of the museum. So there's so much connectivity. Every collection I've ever done references some kind of painting or color or just period of art.

[Nicole Phelps]

Do you have a favorite piece of art that has fashion or clothing in it?

[Tory Burch]

You know, it's funny, when we just finished working in our Paris apartment, and there's a contemporary artist, Romal Hudsami, who does. He takes garbage, and he's an African artist, and he makes these incredible African masks. And part of what he so is out of everything that he finds. And then I have this old master painting, and I sort of put them next to each other. And what I loved is there was a lace collar on one of his African masks that tied in with a lace collar on this portrait that was from the 17th century. So for me, it's kind of interesting to think about it that way.

[Nicole Phelps]

So this has been an extremely busy week for you. You don't just have the Met Gala prep. On Thursday morning at the Pierre, you hosted a breakfast for the Tory Burch Foundation. Tell us about the work you do at the foundation.

[Tory Burch]

Yeah, so that was early 7:45. We got 400 people. So that was. Listen, I started my company because I wanted to start a foundation, as you mentioned. And in 2004, that was a very foreign idea and people did not like it. And it was. I kept thinking that business and purpose have to go hand in hand. And if I didn't have the money to start a foundation back then, so I thought if I could build a successful business, I would have the money to start a foundation. I knew that it would entail women, because I think women are the answer. I think if women were in charge right now, things would be very different. So I started the company in 2004, the foundation in 2009. So it was quite early in the sort of the life cycle of a company to start a foundation. And what we do is we support women entrepreneurs in the United States, and that's through mentoring, through community, and through access to capital. And so what I find is that it's as amazing for me and our team and all the mentors as it is for the entrepreneurs. And they're often single moms. They have incredible businesses. They're paying back their loans at a 98% rate. So women are a great investment. They're gritty, they're tenacious. They're building businesses that last. And that's something that we're trying to do. When we can get their businesses to reach a million in revenue, we see a sustainable business, and then they're investing back into their communities. They. So they're, you know, it's a win for the bottom line, too.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, as a. As a member of an editorial team, I am always so impressed with entrepreneur spirit because I, you know, I'm one. One of a group of people who I. With whom I, you know, I could not do anything without. So people who have that. That kind of ambition to do something to start Something so impressive to me. And I have to say that I told you this earlier at the breakfast. I found myself, like, on the verge of tears listening to these women's stories. You brought three women who have gone through your program up on stage and they talked about their experiences. And grit is really, really at the heart of it. What have you learned, would you say, from working with this community of women?

[Tory Burch]

I mean, I've learned everything. I see resilience. That's one thing I talk a lot about, confidence. I think when I started, I didn't have a network of women or men to reach out to. Let me also say we need men to be part of this discussion because we could be talking about women's issues to ourselves for the rest of time. And that's just not. We're not going to make the progress we need. But I see the ability to create change, and that's what I see in them. I see that I often had this sort of no is not an option mentality when I started. I see that in them. And I think that when we have a community which we are creating for all of you, I mean, for me also, you can be entrepreneurial in anything you do. You can work at Vogue and approach it in an entrepreneurial way. And that was my point also of honoring Anna Wintour because she didn't start a business, but she transformed an industry. And so I think there's so many things I've learned from them and still learning. And I guess it's resilience, never giving up, optimism, banning together. I love the idea of peer to peer and what we can do together. Regardless of many of their businesses, they're experiencing the same challenges. So to have this community and be able to reach out to people and get advice is critical.

[Nicole Phelps]

So let's go back to your beginnings. You graduated from college and as I understand it, you cold called the designer Zoran. What was that first job in fashion like?

[Tory Burch]

Okay, does anyone know Zoran? Probably. And if not, you need to look him up because he was an amazing. He's still. But he was an amazing designer. He was from Yugoslavia. He looked like Rasputin. He would dress like super, super stylish women and everyone from Jackie O to Lauren Hutton. But he was the ultimate minimalist. He didn't believe in any kind of hardware. He just. It was all about drape. And the quality of his fabrics were magnificent. And my mother wore his clothing, so. So I called him and he said something really funny on the phone. He said, yeah, you can have a job, but you have to be here on Monday. And I was like, well, I graduated on Thursday. And he's like, exactly. I had to figure out how to move to New York, find an apartment in three days. So I started my first walking in. I'll never forget it because, you know, I was dressed up. He's like, what are you wearing? He wanted me to cut my hair, wear no makeup, wear flats, and wear his sort of uniform, which was like a pajama pant and a T shirt. But his office was all white and he had blue sort of workout mats on the floor and then just these racks of beautiful clothing. And in the back was the atelier and the sewers. And so he was. I think the second day he had one of his customers come in and he's like, okay, I'm going to hide in the bathroom and you have to tell them I'm not here. And I was like, okay.

[Chloe]

Really?

[Tory Burch]

So I would have to do the sort of block and tackle and like, I learned a lot about fashion. And that's where I met Kandi Pratt's Price.

[Laura Ingham]

Ah.

[Nicole Phelps]

Who I worked [e-mail] for many years.

[Tory Burch]

She hired me from meeting me at Zoran to go work with her at Harper's Bazaar. But she forgot to tell me she wasn't going and ended up going to Vogue. So I showed up there. She wasn't there.

[Nicole Phelps]

All right, so let's get into it. Your post Zorin trajectory. You went on to Harper's Bazaar. You worked at Ralph Lauren, Vera Wang and Loewe. When Narciso Rodriguez was designing, at what point did it become clear to you that you wanted to launch your own brand?

[Tory Burch]

Well, it was one of those decisions that a lot of women face. I had three babies under the age of four and three boys. And so I was working at Loewe and I had to travel to Paris and Spain a lot. And I couldn't. I realized that I couldn't leave my kids and be a good mom. So I became a stay at home mom. I quit my job and that was really tough because I loved working. And so I knew that I would want to work. And it was during that time, I had never designed. I had never been to business school. So I had this idea of reviving a brand called Jax that my mother used to wear. And it was this great brand of just incredible, just easy pieces that were impossible to find. And Rudy Gernreich was a designer. And it was so I thought I worked for months. I was going to bring back this brand, call it Jax I got in touch with the entrepreneur who owned it and within 20 seconds I realized it was a hard no. And so I had to pivot and rethink. And so that's when it came to me thinking about starting a company. But it was, the idea was to design beautiful things that didn't cost a designer price point because at the time there was Calvin Klein and you know, Ralph Lauren, but then there was the Gap and there wasn't really sort of something that was in between.

[Nicole Phelps]

Was that your elevator pitch? You had to do a round of investment with friends and family. Is that how you sold it to them?

[Tory Burch]

I mean, I basically said I wanted, I thought we could design beautiful things that were covetable and had longevity, but was a super luxury price point.

[Nicole Phelps]

And you went, I think, somewhat unusual route of opening a store right away. You sort of were a very early adopter of Elizabeth street in no Liga, there's nothing there. I remember it well. It was in 2004. Take us back to the first day the store opened.

[Tory Burch]

So it was Fashion Week and it was February and we opened the store without the doors so they didn't show up. And I'll never forget it because we thought we could have an all day sort of event. And then I invited friends, press, out of town press, all the people I could think of. And it was amazing because Elizabeth street, we went there because the rent was cheap, there was a nothing there. And so there was Cafe Habana and that was it. And you know, I think what happened was that we opened not without the doors at 10am and throughout the day we started to see that it became word of mouth and that people were telling people and it was like, it was so exciting because people were looking at everything and it was this idea of a lifestyle concept which was a bit different back then. It was a direct to consumer idea where we also launched with E commerce. People told me no one would ever buy it online. So it was this day of like people coming and it was like throughout from 10 until 6. And we almost sold through all of our inventory.

[Nicole Phelps]

So what did you do on day two?

[Tory Burch]

Day two we had to scramble and it was pretty, it was exciting, but we realized we had to figure it out.

[Nicole Phelps]

So you're building the brand. What kind of company culture did you want to create for your team? And how did you identify the people that you wanted beside you?

[Tory Burch]

Yeah, I mean, I think one of my gifts is surrounding myself with incredible people. My father's name was Buddy and so we created something called Buddy Values and I was Raised to treat a cab driver the same as the Queen of England. Have I ever met the Queen of England? Which I have not. But it was just that mentality. So it's about treating people beautifully. And that was the starting point, I think. Integrity, humor, being straightforward, honesty, these are all sort of things that we talk about with our culture. But we expect great work, but we want a great place to work. And that's something we work on all the time. And we do. Culture can change in a minute. And so you can't just talk about culture. You have to really live it and breathe it. And I had worked, as you said, at so many places, I'd seen so many cultures. So for me it was a perfect opportunity to say, okay, I want a place where women can and men, but can come. They can be moms, they can leave and take their kid to a lacrosse game or a doctor's appointment and not feel like they were going to be penalized for it. So we spend a lot of time on culture.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, Fashion is not a sort of. At least back then, maybe things have changed, but it was not a place where, you know, you were leaving the office at 5pm and you know, I'll

[Tory Burch]

never forget the first person I hired. I said, and this became sort of a talking point. I'm like, I don't want to have a bitchy fashion environment. I'm straightforward. I say it how it is. I think people really appreciated that. It was tough. Fashion was very, very tough.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, yes, even tougher. I got into it in the late 90s and it's a different, it's a different atmosphere now for sure. So it's easy for all of us to look at you and understand. You've gone from that one store on Nolita to its 400 stores around the world now and think of it as success to success to success. But surely there have been challenges on the way and I think it's always educational for people to hear about challenges and how you face, you know, never

[Tory Burch]

would I ever complain because it was so extraordinary and still is. But every day is a new challenge and going through, you know, at one point a very public divorce, a super private person, that was incredibly tough. I will say my ex husband and I are great friends now. And he told me it was a 10 year misunderstanding. So I took that and I said, great. But to do go through a public divorce, to go through a public lawsuit of, you know, a company he started and we had to go through that. Those are just like periphery things. Then you have 2008 with the macro environment of you have this growing business and 2008 happens and literally overnight business stops. So that was like a whole other thing. When you think about you have 5,000 employees all around the world. There's, you know, you can't. Things happen. And your name, I never wanted it to be my name, but my name is on the door. So I care deeply about my. About who represents me and to make sure that they are culturally acting in a way that we all believe in. So there's so many different things that can happen. I remember once where we, as I mentioned, launched with an e commerce site. And I'm so happy we did because it's become a real pillar of our business. But at one point our systems went down. It was during, like, November and Christmas, and so we had no visibility on things that were being delivered or shipped. I was very early adopter of Twitter and of Instagram. And so I thought my brother Robert helped me build the company too. So he was there and I was like, well, I think what people don't realize is that people need is just honesty. So we went on Twitter and we said, this is what's happening and please bear with us. And so it was the best thing I've ever done because giving that transparency really helped. I think our customer wanted to support us, and they really helped us get through a really rough patch. Right.

[Nicole Phelps]

So it's like meeting the humans behind the famous.

[Tory Burch]

I always find it interesting with politicians. I'm like, just say, just tell them what you did. Just be honest. People go a long way.

[Nicole Phelps]

So you're mentioning, I'll get into politics. Your mentioning of 2008 reminded me of the pandemic. And we're, you know, all working from home. And Anna, you know, either called me up or emailed me and said, Tori is working, working on a letter that she's sending to the administration. And this was. Do you remember this? This was about, you know, about the struggles that business owners were. Were facing with the shutdowns.

[Tory Burch]

Nicole, what's amazing is our industry, when you think about it, should be considered like the food industry or the airline industry. It's 14 million jobs. So retail was being hammered like people. We had 400 stores. I didn't even know how we would make payroll. They were just shut overnight. And so then we have 5,000 employees that need health care. And so how are we going to do that? And so, you know, I was working with people like Kevin McCarthy and Steve Mnuchin to say, like, our industry needs support. We need it's 12. It's 14 million jobs. So it was such a rough time. I mean, people were being laid off, as I'm sure many of you know. And it was. That was a pretty dark time. I also had an employee that I worked with for 15 years or 12 years, and I was with her on Friday doing a fitting, and she was dead on Monday. And it was from COVID And so I realized that how incredibly dangerous Covid was. So it was just, you know, I don't think we left a room. I don't know about you, but for seven days straight without, you know, then taking a break to try to figure out, we called it the war room because it was, like, it was rough.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, I, I. People, like, picked up hobbies during COVID but I didn't. I was, you know, at my computer.

[Tory Burch]

I did bake banana bread, though.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, we. We kept ourselves busy at Vogue.

[Tory Burch]

So, yeah, you guys were super busy, but you were also. I mean, the one thing I love about Anna and Vogue is that they get into it and they help people. And when any crisis happens, you guys rise to the occasion to see what you can do to support the industry and beyond.

[Nicole Phelps]

We're going to take a quick break. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford.

[Tory Burch]

And I'm John Ross.

[Nicole Phelps]

And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers.

[Choma Nardi]

And just because the Oscars are done

[Nicole Phelps]

for now doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more.

[Tory Burch]

Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday,

[Nicole Phelps]

wherever you get your podcasts. You were the CEO and creative director of your company for many years, and then you brought on Pierre Yves Roussel, who happens to be your husband, as CEO. I think it was 2019. What shifted when you made that change?

[Tory Burch]

I mean.

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, I sort of connect it to the Toro essence, but it is.

[Tory Burch]

Thank you. I, first of all, had to marry him to get him to be CEO. I said to our board, I'm like, this is not exactly a promotion for Pure Eve leaving. He ran 15 brands at LVMH, and he is who cast Phoebe Filo at Celine and Jonathan Anderson at Loewe. And we met because he wanted to invest in our business. And we realized after some time that maybe that we were going to do a different kind of investment. So having him come on board changed everything for me. I realized that when I started the company, it was the creative process that I loved. And so I'm not saying I wasn't proud being the CEO, but everything I struggled through to do, he's an expert at. So for me to be able to hand over the operations to him was, like, a complete changing point for my life. I now do 100% of the creative for the last seven years since he joined. And I think, you know, I thank you for noticing. And seeing it took some time. You know, I looked at every single product, and I'm still in the process of it that we've ever put out in the world, and I wanted to make it better. And so it was really pivoting the company to saying, like, you know, I want elevation, but not necessarily, like, moving the price point. And so it was this real, like, exercise and quality and craft and fit and just stripping everything back. And so it was lucky that I had partners that allowed me to do this. But I shrunk our ready to wear business. I pulled things back, and now I'm so proud of the logo and where it is. It got away with me for a while, and it was just, you know, for me, I want to do everything less of everything and everything with more integrity.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, let's talk about the fall show. We saw that at, I guess, mid February, and it was at the Breuer, that incredible building uptown and a beautiful room. And you said that one of the inspirations for the collection was your dad's old corduroys. And we talked backstage about this idea of what endures. So I want to hear more about that. What endures for you and how do you make clothes that women will be wearing not just this fall, but five falls from now?

[Tory Burch]

Yeah, and for me, that's a goal. Of course, I want to be relevant from the zeitgeist standpoint and what's happening. But I start from a more classic idea of sort of, how do you look at something that does endure? What is an idea? My dad was the chicest man. He should have been a designer. He designed all of his own clothing. So I have this, like, wealth of information with just his wardrobe. But he had these, like, corduroys that he made. And I just, you know, for me, it was something that is about a bit of, like, memory and nostalgia in a way, but it's kind of. You want to do your own take on it. So I think it's a wonderful starting point, but I try to focus on pieces that you would look at something and you wouldn't assign, like, a year or a decade to it or a trend necessarily. For me, I want pieces that will last. And so that's where I put a lot of my effort, is actually looking at something and saying, I will want to wear this in five years or 10 years or give it to my daughter or my sister or whatever.

[Nicole Phelps]

Side note, it made me wonder, would there ever be a Tory Burch menswear?

[Tory Burch]

You know, I've thought a lot about that, but what I'm really excited about is men wear our clothing now and our accessories, starting with my children. My boys are really funny because one of them has a lot of style. They all do. But one of them really is. He'll wear our logo belt, and he'll wear. He's just so funny the way he wears it. But we are making a pair of ballet flats for someone for the Met.

[Nicole Phelps]

I love that.

[Tory Burch]

A bag.

[Macy's Personal Stylist (Ad)]

Wow.

[Nicole Phelps]

How cool is that? So also, we were backstage, and you were talking about these raffia bags that you did for fall, and you said they reminded you of the. You called them deadhead bags in high school, and I got such a kick out of that. Imagining Tory Burch as a dead bag.

[Tory Burch]

Oh, yeah. I have a lot to me that people, you know.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes. So tell us about your high school style.

[Tory Burch]

Oh, yeah. So I was teased a lot. People used to call Tory ware, and. And so, I don't know. I would wear, like, you know, a Grateful Dead T shirt and an Hermes scarf. So it was kind of. That kind of sums it up. But there are these woven bags, and I'm sure you've seen them. I remember there was. I think. I don't know if it was Jackie. There's a very famous picture of she or Audrey Hepburn wearing this, like, woven bag. And I've always been intrigued by them. I've always worn them. And we called them deadhead bags. And then I love working with women artisans. So we worked with an incredible woman in India to make these bags. But what we did is we put them on overdrive from just luxury standpoint. So they look like these beautiful woven straw bags, but they're actually leather, and they actually have just the most exceptional detailing. So when you feel them, you see everything. So sometimes what I love in a collection is where you look at something, and then it sort of is. But then when you look closer, it becomes so much more interesting. The subtleties are what I love.

[Nicole Phelps]

I think of the show that you put on. I guess it would have been spring 2022. It was September 21st. It was Fashion's return to the Runway after many seasons of doing videos for fashion shows because of COVID and you did a great job show on Mercer street outside. I really think of that as a breakthrough moment for you. And you were riffing on the influence of Claire McCardell, the mother of American sportswear. And you even wore. Speaking of vintage, you wore Claire McCardell to take your. Your bow. What is it about Claire McCardell that so moved you then? And talk to us more about designer icons of yours, people who have inspired your own.

[Tory Burch]

Yeah, I mean, well, Claire McCardell. Do you all know Claire McCardell? Because I will tell you, if not, you need to look her up. She had a very short lifespan. Really. She died when she was, like, I think, 50. So she was only in the industry for probably 10 years. And what's amazing, she's the first one to put a zipper on a dress or a pocket. So her influence, she was influenced by menswear and the freedom that men had versus women. She took corsets off, but then reconstructed them. And what I find so amazing is that American fashion often doesn't get the credit it deserves. When you look at Claire McCardell, she maybe at the time, it was a $40 dress that she designed. So she was very practical, but European luxury and couture was watching her, and they were influenced by her. And so to me, that was what was so fascinating, I think freedom and being able to express individuality in the way that she did. Taking fabrics that were unusual and then adding and using them and helping women wear a sack dress. That was very. That was one of her biggest dresses. But I wanted. So I worked with her foundation in Delaware, and then there's one in Maryland, and just learning even more about the history of her and the influence she has had on everyone in fashion. I recently was at a Parsons class working with some of the students, and every one of them cited Claire McCardell around American fashion. But really, I would say she goes far beyond American fashion.

[Nicole Phelps]

I think we all now take for granted comfort and ease. But. But it is interesting to think back to the mid century, you know, 75 years ago, and things like a zipper in a dress or a pocket in a dress wasn't. There were total novelties. Women were really quite restricted.

[Tory Burch]

They were restricted.

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, it's interesting that American sportswear emerged at the same time that, you know, feminism did and women in the workplace, that sort of goes hand in hand.

[Tory Burch]

I mean, wearing a suit, I mean, even just, you know, it was very different. And she actually did a lot around the waist, but it was always making it super comfortable. It was Getting rid of corsets, but then creating still shape.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, Speaking of Claire McCardell and vintage, we often see you at the Vogue Vintage. Well, we've only done two, but we've seen you at both of the Vogue Vintage. It's so great.

[Tory Burch]

I highly recommend it for you guys.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, we. We will be doing another one next year. But tell us about your own closet. It's one of the closets that I would most like to see. What are your prized pieces?

[Tory Burch]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I did buy something. I'm not sure it's Anna Wintours, but I did get something there. No, I'm kidding. I've kept a lot of things. So I have a pair of red tag Levi's from high school that I still wear today. And those are the best. As there was a period, I think they were designed. I think they started in the 50s, maybe for that specific. So I look at things like that. I have a tunic that I bought at a flea market for $6 and that started our whole company, a polyester tunic. And for me, I look at things in a different way. About shape, about. Yeah, I have a Terry Mugler dress. You know, I love vintage. And I think. I really think that's why I became a designer, because I started wearing my mom's clothes. I'd have to alter it. I started wearing vintage in high schools and I had to alter everything. And so for me, I think it taught me a lot about fabric and fit and construction.

[Nicole Phelps]

Do you have the prom dress? Because we were doing research. Alex was doing research, and I think was your promise.

[Tory Burch]

I need to find it. I know. I really. I haven't been able to find it, but my mother got me. I remember there was a sale at like, I don't know if it's Neiman's or Saks. And it was this YSL sort of. And I kind of. It was. I kind of stood out when I think about it. But it was a mauve sequin sort of bodice with black tulle skirt. YSL poofy dress.

[Nicole Phelps]

Fabulous.

[Tory Burch]

Okay. It was early 90s or 80s.

[Radhika Seth]

Late 80s.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, you have said that you're addicted to live auctioneers. And I'm curious. What have you been searching for and collecting lately?

[Tory Burch]

I know. Well, not to bring up the Met, but my Met dress is one thing. But I am addicted. I love pottery and I love finding things on live auctioneers, especially because you can find things and it's not. Sometimes you get things really inexpensively because people aren't following auctions. So you just put in what you're searching for, and it's amazing. Are you on it?

[Nicole Phelps]

No, but I'm going to go on it this afternoon. So let's talk more about the Tory Burch brand. I want to know what is next. What are you working on for 2026 and late 2026 and beyond?

[Tory Burch]

Oh, my gosh, so much. But I think in some ways, I still feel like a new designer because I've never had the time I have to dedicate to the creative process. We're working on some dog accessories, which it will be fun. Working on a bit of a TV show for dogs, which is a work in progress.

[Nicole Phelps]

That's news. We love breaking news on the reservoir.

[Tory Burch]

It's not out yet, but it will. It's something I had a crazy experience, which you guys. I went to speak at your event the morning after I lost my dog for three days in New York City, and it was the most traumatizing thing that has ever, ever happened to me. And I ended up getting her back. And the next day, I spoke at one of the Vogue events. So it's ever since I've sort of wanted to do something around dogs. And so now we signed, we're doing a TV show. So when it's ready, we'll let you know.

[Nicole Phelps]

Vogue wants the first, and I will

[Tory Burch]

not be in it. I'll be behind the scenes. But I'm very excited. And anything that I will make will go to helping dogs if I make anything.

[Nicole Phelps]

We always ask this question on the run through when we have designers on, and it is. What do you tell young people who want to get into fashion? What do you advise them to do?

[Tory Burch]

Well, I always say something my parents said to me, that negativity is noise. And that has served me well. I think if you want to get into fashion, you should. I think you need to have your own point of view. And I think that's something that I've heard a lot from you and Anna and everyone is that it's really important to think about how you. What if you're going to do something, what does that mean? And how is it a personal take on how you feel? And I think that's super important. But also it's hard. It's hard and incredible. So thicken your skin. That's what my parents told me. And when I started our company, there was a ton of negativity. There was, you know, it's a vanity project. Why would she do this? Why do you need to do this? Why are you doing this? You know, there's so many people that weigh in, and I think to tune it out is the best advice I can give. The one thing I've changed in the way we talk about women's empowerment with our foundation is that I was listening to Melinda Gates and Oprah actually have a conversation, and what they said really struck me is that women have the power, and I fully believe in that. So we're not bestowing power upon anyone. You all have it within you. And so. And young men, because there's men here, too. I think confidence and believing in yourself is critical.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, Tori, thank you very much for doing this. Thank you all for getting up on a Saturday morning.

[Choma Nardi]

I love that.

[Tory Burch]

Thank you all. Thank you.

[Choma Nardi]

The run through with Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Alex John Burns, with help from from Emily Elias. This episode was engineered by Luke Mosley and Fran Bandy and Brad Timotheev and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Michael Toriello was our production director and Tatiana Dominguez was our audio assistant. Bye.

[Jessie Sevchak]

I'm Jessie Sevchak.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic.

[Jessie Sevchak]

And we're senior Test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bakery Club podcast.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers.

[Jessie Sevchak]

We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive. And we love to talk about all the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Every month, we publish a recipe on bon appetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know.

[Jessie Sevchak]

Then you'll go bake. Send us any questions you have, and

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And this month, we're making strawberry roll cake. It is the unofficial birthday cake of the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen, and it is the perfect way to welcome spring. Head to ba.com and come and bake along with us.

[Jessie Sevchak]

Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclubon appetit.com or find us on the substack.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest

[Jessie Sevchak]

bake Find Ba Bake Club wherever you get your podcasts.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Happy baking

[Radhika Seth]

from prx.