In Conversation with Givenchy's Sarah Burton | PLUS Doechii Is British Vogue's Cover Star!

Summary

Podcast Summary: In Conversation with Givenchy's Sarah Burton | PLUS Doechii Is British Vogue's Cover Star!

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Run-Through with Vogue
• Host: Chloe Mel and Jo Minardi
• Episode Title: In Conversation with Givenchy's Sarah Burton | PLUS Doechii Is British Vogue's Cover Star!
• Release Date: July 10, 2025

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1. Episode Introduction

Chloe Mel and Jo Minardi kick off the episode by highlighting the latest on Givenchy, featuring Anne Hathaway as the August cover star dressed exclusively in Givenchy. They also touch upon the recent cover featuring Doechii and discuss the impactful debut of Sarah Burton's latest collection at Fashion Week.

Notable Quote:

• Jo Minardi [00:53]: "I loved them. Especially love the COVID with that really gorgeous floral print and the very kind of statement neckline."

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2. Highlights of the Week

a. Anne Hathaway and Doechii’s Givenchy Coverage

The hosts express excitement over Anne Hathaway’s exclusive Givenchy dress featured in Vogue's August issue and discuss Doechii's prominent debut, which includes her groundbreaking Grammy win and her captivating Fashion Week presence.

Notable Quote:

• Jo Minardi [01:29]: "It feels really like a lovely moment to be celebrating her power."

b. Celine Show Review

Jo provides an enthusiastic recap of the recent Celine show, praising the brand's aesthetic that blends global prep styles with modern elements. The discussion includes detailed observations about the venue's ambiance and the innovative footwear showcased.

Notable Quote:

• Jo Minardi [04:14]: "I love the idea of scarf dressing and the menswear. There were riffs on American sportswear and rugby shirts..."

c. Schiaparelli Couture Highlights

Chloe and Jo delve into the Schiaparelli couture show, highlighting Cardi B's striking entrance and the dramatic sculpted torso design that echoes Salvador Dalí's surrealism. They discuss the blend of practicality and spectacle in the collection.

Notable Quote:

• Chloe Mel [10:25]: "It was obviously a reference to Schiaparelli's codes of surrealism, but this was an actual reference to a Salvador Dali ruby heart..."

d. Upcoming Fashion Events

The hosts anticipate upcoming shows, including Glenn Martens' first show for Margiela and Demna's final collection for Balenciaga. They also touch upon Wimbledon, noting the impeccable couple styles that blend sport with high fashion.

Notable Quote:

• Jo Minardi [11:15]: "We're really excited to see what Demna will do because that will be his closing collection for Balenciaga."

e. Wimbledon Fashion Trends

Chloe and Jo discuss the standout fashions at Wimbledon, praising the coordination and elegance displayed by celebrities and fashion-forward attendees. They highlight specific looks such as Monica Barbaro and Andrew Garfield's matching Ralph Lauren whites.

Notable Quote:

• Chloe Mel [12:35]: "Elise did an amazing sort of breakdown of what to buy at each place…"

f. Hampton's Market Taxonomy

Introducing a humorous segment, Jo explains "Hampton's market taxonomy," a satirical take on the exorbitantly priced yet quaint farm stands in the Hamptons. They chuckle over the absurdity of high-end pricing for everyday items.

Notable Quote:

• Chloe Mel [12:35]: "At Round Swamp you will spend $32 on a small thing of guacamole?"

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3. In Conversation with Sarah Burton, Givenchy’s Creative Director

a. August Vogue Cover with Anne Hathaway

Sarah Burton discusses the significance of Anne Hathaway gracing the August Vogue cover in a Givenchy design. She reflects on the surreal experience of seeing her creations featured prominently and the inspiring connection between art and fashion.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [16:02]: "It's always a bit of a surreal experience when you see those pictures."

b. Sarah Burton’s Journey and Background

Sarah shares her lifelong passion for design, rooted in a creative family environment. She credits influential teachers for guiding her towards a career in fashion and highlights her educational path through St. Martin's.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [17:10]: "I always knew that it was something I wanted to do, to be... to make clothes."

c. Design Philosophy and Silhouettes

Sarah elaborates on her design approach, focusing on establishing strong silhouettes that balance tailoring with fluidity. She emphasizes the importance of simplicity and the sculptural nature of her designs to create recognizable Givenchy pieces.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [25:13]: "It's very strong and very sculptural."

d. Archive Discovery During Studio Renovation

During discussions about the studio renovation, Sarah narrates the discovery of Hubert Givenchy’s original patterns hidden within the walls. This find inspired her to reconnect with the brand's foundational history and integrate it into her current designs.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [21:43]: "Each pattern was not made in paper, but made in calico... it spoke to the atelier and the people who made them."

e. Couture and Ready-to-Wear at Givenchy

Sarah outlines her vision for Givenchy, aiming to blend couture with ready-to-wear seamlessly. She discusses upcoming couture projects and the integration of couture elements into everyday fashion pieces, maintaining the brand’s esteemed reputation.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [33:01]: "I love couture because it's a moment when you really are doing couture."

f. The Role of Social Media in Fashion

Sarah shares her perspective on social media's impact, appreciating how it democratizes fashion but cautioning against over-reliance. She advocates for preserving the depth and uniqueness that traditional fashion sources offer.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [36:05]: "Social media often demystifies fashion because it makes it more accessible."

g. Fittings and Practical Design Aspects

Sarah describes her love for the fitting process, where designs come to life through movement and interaction. She highlights the collaborative environment at Givenchy, emphasizing the importance of teamwork and communication in perfecting each garment.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [38:17]: "I love the evolution of it all, how you get from one point to another."

h. Women in Creative Leadership

Addressing the scarcity of women creative directors in fashion, Sarah attributes it to longstanding power structures. She champions strong female leadership and shares her personal experiences nurturing talented women within the industry.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [45:10]: "I always believe that women can do anything."

i. Advice for Aspiring Fashion Designers

Sarah offers valuable advice to young designers, stressing the importance of education, hands-on experience, curiosity, authenticity, and hard work. She encourages aspiring creatives to immerse themselves in the industry to understand its multifaceted nature.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Burton [46:23]: "Work hard, believe in yourself, be authentic."

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4. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a brief mention of an exclusive interview with Sarah Burton and reminders about upcoming content. Chloe and Jo express their excitement for future episodes and thank the listeners for tuning in.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Celebration of Female Empowerment: Both the cover features of Anne Hathaway and Doechii, as well as the leadership of Sarah Burton, underscore Vogue’s commitment to highlighting powerful women in fashion.
• Balancing Tradition and Innovation: Sarah Burton’s approach at Givenchy exemplifies a blend of historical reverence and contemporary design, ensuring the brand remains relevant while honoring its roots.
• Practical Insights into Fashion Design: The detailed discussion on fittings, silhouette creation, and the crafting process provides listeners with an insider’s view of the meticulous work behind high-fashion creations.
• Encouragement for Aspiring Designers: Sara Burton’s advice emphasizes the importance of education, experience, and authenticity, offering a roadmap for those looking to enter the fashion industry.

This episode of The Run-Through with Vogue offers an enriching blend of current fashion highlights and an in-depth conversation with one of the industry’s leading creative directors, making it a must-listen for fashion enthusiasts and professionals alike.

Transcript

[Chloe Mel]

This episode of the Run through is brought to you by eBay. EBay. It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion over and over again. Your favorite designers, expertly authenticated. Yes, ebay. Things people love. This is the Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel.

[Jo Minardi]

And I'm Jo Minardi.

[Chloe Mel]

Today on our Thursday episode, we have our colleague and the Run through co host Nicole Phelps back with a conversation with one of today's most exciting and look to designers, Sarah Burton, creative director at Givenchy Choma. Our August cover star Anne Hathaway is dressed exclusively in Givenchy over our 10 page portfolio in the magazine. What did you think about these photos?

[Jo Minardi]

I loved them. I love them. Especially love the COVID with that really gorgeous floral print and the very kind of statement neckline. It was great. We actually have our cover star. Dochi is also wearing Givenchy and that cover just launched today. I'm so excited for Sarah because I think this, this debut was so terrific. It was a real standout of fashion week and is such a fantastic star and so much goodwill behind her and so many fantastic women. So it feels really like a lovely moment to be celebrating her power.

[Chloe Mel]

Women in powerful poses and powerful clothes.

[Nicole Phelps]

Exactly, exactly.

[Chloe Mel]

And speaking of powerful women in powerful clothes, another big Givenchy moment. Tuesday evening at Windsor Castle for the state dinner, the Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton wore a beautiful custom Givenchy gown to meet President Macron and his wife. So it's been, it's been a big Sarah Burton week all around.

[Jo Minardi]

Yeah. And I mean, they have such a long standing relationship, Kate, the Princess of Wales and Sarah Burton, so.

[Chloe Mel]

Well, of course, the wedding dress. Lest anyone forget. Choma. I want to hear everything about your cover star.

[Jo Minardi]

Yeah, I'm so thrilled. I think Dochi captured all of our imaginations earlier in the year with her fantastic Grammy performance and being one of the few women to win every a Grammy for rap record of the year. And then before that, was it before that or after that when she took fashion week and was just like, you just couldn't take your eyes off her. She kind of had like Lady Gaga esque commitment to different characters and reinvention and actually it was so great. One of the best quotes in the story is from Lady Gaga and Lady Gaga talks about what she kind of represents in this new sort of landscape, musical landscape. And so it was really fantastic to get her concept for the story. She was shot by Elizaveta Porodina and styled by my friend Stella Greenspan. So it was a really great show.

[Nicole Phelps]

Oh, fun. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jo Minardi]

So it was Stella's first Vogue cover and it's so funny. We'd been doing. I don't know if this is too cheesy for the podcast, but her and I do vision boards every year.

[Sarah Burton]

Oh, my God, you're so cute.

[Jo Minardi]

And she had put on her vision board, like she wanted to do a British Vogue cover.

[Chloe Mel]

And I want to do a vision board with you and Stella. Wait, what else is on your vision board, Joma?

[Jo Minardi]

Oh, I can't tell you. I hope it hasn't happened yet, but I have some. I have vacation time on my. On my vision board. I have work, life, balance on my vision board. I have lots of things.

[Nicole Phelps]

Okay.

[Jo Minardi]

Yeah. Jasmine Hughes, who's actually a dear friend of the. Our producer of the show, Stephanie, so.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, really?

[Sarah Burton]

I didn't know that.

[Jo Minardi]

Yes, Stephanie, Jasmine, actually. Yeah, she. Yes, she had mentioned her and I thought, yeah, she'd be great. And Jasmine was super up for it and she spent time with her in la and yeah, it's a really fun story.

[Chloe Mel]

I'm so excited. Choma, this is a.

[Nicole Phelps]

That's a big, big coup.

[Jo Minardi]

Big moment. Thanks, thanks. Thanks. It was quite. It was quite the COVID to pull together. So I'm glad we pulled it off. I'm glad we pulled it off. It all came together.

[Chloe Mel]

Choma, tell me everything about the Celine show. I was obsessed.

[Jo Minardi]

It was such a great show. We all arrived. I arrived with our colleague Sam Sussman. We went into the show together and what was really fun was there were Celine branded logoed bikes lined up all the way along the entrance. It was really fun. And they all had these huge straw baskets and there were Celine branded umbrellas, a huge Celine Foulade floating above guests in the entrance as you walked into the venue. So it felt like a really beautiful entrance and a nice start to the show. Where was was at their headquarters, which are on Rue Vivienne, which we actually went. We passed a restaurant that you and I ate in, dined in one time in Paris. So quite an sort of easy central location in Paris, but they shut down streets around it and there was a lot of buzz. There were so many people there. And the show was just really was really terrific, I think. I love that Michael Ryder, who has worked at Ralph Lauren and he worked under Nicolas Gasier at Balenciaga. He also worked for Phoebe Filo. So we all knew it was going to be big shoes to fill because obviously his former boss also designed Celine. And then of course, you had Hedy Slimane, who was obviously One of them. One of the most important designers in the last 10 years. So there were big shoes to fill, but I think he really rose to the occasion. There was this aesthetic that I would call kind of global prep, because as a sort of version of prep in every single. In every single big fashion capital that I can think of. I think of London in the 80s and Sloan Rangers, which was something that Sarah Moa wrote about in her review. And then it was so fun to see. There were the. What other shoes that. The loafers that you wear.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, Belgian loafers.

[Jo Minardi]

Belgian loafers. And I always associate them with you. And kind of. Of New York. And there were. There were kind of a version of that, but he also had jazz shoes, and there was some really fun footwear. But I just. I love this idea of scarf dressing. I love the menswear. There were. There were riffs on American sportswear and rugby shirts and big, big sort of drapey sweatshirts that were really great and fantastic denim, that high water denim that was super fun and kind of 80s, 1970s inspired and really great tailoring. Really great coats. Fantastic menswear. I thought it was a really, really great show.

[Chloe Mel]

Me too. I loved the creased jeans. And me too.

[Jo Minardi]

Those are my favorites.

[Chloe Mel]

And I want to start ironing all my jeans. I actually do iron my pants a lot with the crease. The Vogue Runway team did a really fun live blog of the show, and Laia called it electro yuppie, which I thought was really funny. And Jose called it perverted prep. And I do like these idea of sort of a subverted preppy style.

[Nicole Phelps]

And.

[Chloe Mel]

No, I thought it was fantastic and so much fun to sort of pull everything apart. And the colors were so great.

[Jo Minardi]

Oh, the colors were so great. And I think the. The invitation was wrapped in a. In a Celine scarf. And you could see people were already integrating that scarf around their neck, around their waist. I. I think there's been a trend in the Vogue offices. I hear that in New York Vogue offices that there's been a trend for everybody wearing.

[Chloe Mel]

Everyone's wearing scarves over their. Their pants or their skirts.

[Nicole Phelps]

So it's exactly.

[Jo Minardi]

So. So I think that you guys were ahead of that trend. So we're going to see much more scarf dressing. I kind of love it. But yes, that was kind of the end. The unofficial end to Men's Fashion Week, I guess. I guess bleeding into couture, because now Schiaparelli sort of kicked things off on Monday morning. And Schiaparelli is always such a. Yeah.

[Chloe Mel]

What was your Take on Schiaparelli.

[Jo Minardi]

I think it was funny because we've talked so much about the corset. And Lauren Sanchez, who also wore. Who wore Schiaparelli as one of her looks during her wedding.

[Chloe Mel]

Schiaparelli couture, no less.

[Jo Minardi]

Schiaparelli couture. But this was kind of an undoing of the slight loosening of the corset. There were some much more. There were bias cut dresses that I thought were really pretty, and it had a much more. There was more transparency. I think Daniel took inspiration from a collection that just came before the Second World War, so 1938. And it was a bit. It was more loosened up. But it didn't mean that his guests were loosened up, because I think for me, Schiaparelli starts before the show starts. You had Cardi B on the steps of the show with a raven. With a raven. How they coordinated that is beyond me because the dress alone was an event. But Cardi B doesn't do things by halves, and I think we're gonna see her all over couture week.

[Chloe Mel]

Batrid, which is one of the photo wires agencies that we use labels, does captions for all their photos, and they got very creative with their captions on the cardi. Cardi B is always looking for reinvention, and the raven is a symbol of new beginnings. She is embracing her next chapter. And I was like, all right, background, simmer down.

[Jo Minardi]

Maybe that bad grade copywriter needs a job.

[Chloe Mel]

Truly a. I can't do this. We were all here talking about the maybe most attention grabbing look of the collection, which was the sculpted torso that was worn backwards. So it was sort of realistic shaped breasts and belly buttons out of sort of padded satin with a recreation of a rhinestone encrusted heart necklace that actually beats.

[Nicole Phelps]

Wow.

[Chloe Mel]

Yes. It was obviously a reference to Schiaparelli's codes of surrealism, but this was an actual reference to a Salvador Dali ruby heart of a ruby encrusted heart that beats inside of a gold heart. So that was definitely a showstopper of sorts.

[Jo Minardi]

He always has at least one.

[Chloe Mel]

What other couture moments are you excited for? Choma?

[Jo Minardi]

I'm really looking forward to Glenn Martin's first show for Margiela the Runway with.

[Chloe Mel]

The exclusive interview that went up Tuesday morning. Yeah.

[Sarah Burton]

Very exciting.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mel]

We are recording this on midday Tuesday, so the show will have already debuted by the time this goes live. But that doesn't diminish our anticipation.

[Jo Minardi]

No, no. We're all excited. And I think we're also really excited to see what Demna will do because that will be his closing collection for Balenciaga and I imagine he's going to pull out all the stops. So I don't know if Cardi B is invited, but I'm sure she'll be one of many celebrities on the front row there who will be there to cheer him on. Also happening this week is Wimbledon. I don't know if you've been watching all the courtside look. People really get dressed here.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, the Wimbledon looks are like nothing else. Also, isn't it extremely hot in London right now?

[Nicole Phelps]

It is, but everyone is in like a suit. I know.

[Jo Minardi]

I mean, the couple style has been really great, don't you think?

[Nicole Phelps]

Oh, we love.

[Chloe Mel]

I mean, the Monica Barbaro and Andrew Garfield in their matching Ralph Lauren whites. Tennis whites were top notch for spectator style.

[Jo Minardi]

Exactly.

[Chloe Mel]

Sienna Miller and Ollie Green always go and always look great and dress the part. And Olivia Rod and Louis Partridge looks.

[Jo Minardi]

So they're so in love. They just look so in love. And I think she's coming off the high of her Glastonbury performance and I just, I just think that's just the cutest couple ever. Yes, Chloe, I have questions. Can you please explain to me what Hampton's market taxonomy is?

[Chloe Mel]

Well, that's just what I was calling a very funny piece that Elise Taylor.

[Nicole Phelps]

Did on.

[Chloe Mel]

The high end markets, the bougie farm stands and markets of the Hamptons. Because there are more and more absurdly expensive but pretending to look low key and quaint. Farm stands and general stores in the Hamptons where some places like Loaves and Fishes don't even post prices. What? At Round Swamp you will spend $32 on a small thing of guacamol?

[Jo Minardi]

No, you get out of here.

[Chloe Mel]

Elise did an amazing sort of breakdown of what to buy at each place, what the vibe is at each place. There's a new contender, the Sagaponic General Store. That merch has become the merch to be wearing on the Long island railroad. So yes, it was a very funny sort of anthropological deep dive into the Hamptons. And we, my family and I are going to spend the weekend at my stepsister's house in East Hampton this weekend. So I'm very excited to see some of these places in action. All right, Choma, as always, a delight to do headlines with you and chat.

[Jo Minardi]

About to see you. Same. So now here's Nicole Phelps conversation with Givenchy creative director Sarah Burton.

[Chloe Mel]

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[Nicole Phelps]

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[Chloe Mel]

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[Sarah Burton]

Thank you, Sarah, for joining us on the podcast.

[Nicole Phelps]

It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Sarah Burton]

I want to jump right in because on my desk this morning was the August issue of Vogue. Anne Hathaway is wearing a dress of your design for Givenchy. And inside, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but inside there are, you know, pages and pages of her wearing, wearing other things that we saw on your Runway. And I wanted to start by asking, how does this kind of a moment feel? You've been in fashion for over two decades. Is this a big moment still when you get a cover, when a celebrity is wearing your clothes in a magazine?

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes. I mean, it's always. It's always thrilling when you. When you get a cover and when a celebrity is wearing your clothes. I think that especially the COVID of American Vogue, that's always. It's always really, really thrilling. And it's funny because that even at the beginning of this sort of journey, I, Annie came to the Lake District and took my picture. So it was amazing that it's also Annie Lee's taking the pictures as well. So it's always like, yeah, it's always a bit of an. A surreal experience when you see those pictures. So it's great.

[Sarah Burton]

The photo shoot is beautiful. And in one of the images, Anne Hathaway is wearing the sculpted bra top, and she's standing in front of Sargent's painting of Madame X. And the parallels are quite striking.

[Nicole Phelps]

I know. Do you know what I always. I mean, throughout my whole sort of life as a designer, we've always had these amazing shoots all over the walls as inspiration. So to see this sort of Sargent painting and Anne Hathaway in the outfit was kind of amaz. What I love is it's always sort of taken, and you sort of see the things in a different light altogether. Somehow you design them in one way, and then when they're. What's really amazing is when they're taken and portrayed in a completely different way, which is, again, inspiring, and it sort of inspires you to do something new next time. So it's. It was really. It was great to see, actually. I saw the sudden exhibition as a sudden exhibition at the. I Think it was a Tate Britain not long ago. So it was great to see it next to that painting. Amazing.

[Sarah Burton]

Let's go way back. You have said that you've known since the age of eight that you wanted to be a designer. How did you know then?

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, actually, I was really. When I grew up, I was always drawing, so I never really sat still. And I was always drawing, always painting. I always had a pen in my hand. I could never sit and watch telly or do anything without drawing or making things. And I was actually. I actually grew up in a very creative house. My mum was a teacher. My nana had a knitting shop in Liverpool. So she was always knitting and making clothes. I think, because I was one of five, we were always out of the house because it was a bit chaotic. We were in the house. So my mum would always either put us in the garden or out for a walk or we'd always go to. She would always take us. My mum and dad would take us to sculpture parks and art galleries and museums. So I think I knew that I always was surrounded by kind of, I suppose, creativity in many ways, whether it was making something out of a box at home or a painting, like a Pre Raphaelite painting in the Manchester Art Museum. So it was this. I just always knew that it was something I wanted to do, to be. To do something creative. I think I really wanted to be a painter when I was very little. And then at 8, I thought, no, actually, I want to make. I want to make clothes. So I was. That's. That's sort of how it started. And then I was fortunate enough to have a teacher at school who said to me, you know, if you want to do fashion, you really should try and go to St. Martin. So. And it was great because in many ways, being in Manchester, I was a little bit disconnected from that fashion world. I didn't come from a fashion family or anybody really knew anything about fashion. So it was really because of her. Her saying, you know, go. Go and do Art foundation in Manchester, then go try and get into St. Martin's that I. I ended up going to St. Martin's and sort of everything followed from that point. So I suppose it sort of shows the importance of teachers. Actually. Being from a family of teachers, I just sort of. Teachers hold a very special place in.

[Sarah Burton]

My heart, I think, on the subject of teachers, I know you were back at McQueen and here at Givenchy, too. You've talked a lot about opening the studio and bringing people in and letting young people see how, you know, how the Magic is made, so to speak.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, definitely. I think when I first started at McQueen, I think what I, you know, I had an amazing tutor at Saint Martins, and he introduced me to Lee. And I think that, you know, I learned so much from. I learned so much from him, and I also learned so much from Lee being in the studio. And you realize that and my early sort of time at McQueen, I spent a lot of time going to factories and going to artisans and learning the craft of what we do. So I always encourage people to. And young people especially, to sort of understand that really, design, fashion, design is sort of made up of so many different components and so many people are important to create this sort of final results of almost the process being as important, if not more important, than the final result. So, yes, I really believe in opening up the doors, making it very democratic, making sure that everybody realizes how important all the team members are.

[Sarah Burton]

So you've been at Givenchy now almost a year, right? You. You arrived in September. Talk about how you're feeling at this point. You have one show down. You have one coming up in a couple of months. What's your state of mind?

[Nicole Phelps]

What was so great was, to start with, this is almost like a blank page when. When I. When I arrived at Givenchy, it's this real jewel of a house. It sort of has menswear, couture, women's wear, and in house ateliers, which is really unheard of in a lot of places. So what I did at the very beginning was sort of was really ghostly. Ateliers build relationships with ateliers, found out, you know, how they worked, they understood, learned how I worked, and this sort of building of relationships has been great for the last 10 months, building all these relationships with the teams and also kind of looking at things in a completely different way. So, like I said, starting with sort of a blank page and thinking, okay, what, you know, like, any house is built on foundations. So the last, really 10 months, I've spent sort of building the foundations of what I'd love the house to be going forward.

[Sarah Burton]

Tell us about what you found in the foundations of the atelier. This story is almost. Almost too good to be true, in a way. There's a renovation happening, and what do you all stumble across?

[Nicole Phelps]

What was so amazing is that. Is that the first week I got there, I think it was the second day, I met the woman who does all the archiving, who's this amazing woman called Laur. And she has sort of painstakingly, over the last four years, archived everything about Givenchy, whether it's a picture of his dog to a piece of paper, to a receipt, to what his favorite dinner was. So it's this amazing archive. And so when I first went to the archive and looked at the first image that comes up on the database, it was this picture of a brown paper bag. And I was like, I couldn't understand what this bag was. And then next to it was this beautiful collection, which was Hubert Givenchy's first collection. It's very Hitchcock. It was very stripped back. It was really a very. Kind of. What I realized later was that it was his first collection. So what had happened about two years ago when they'd renovated its first studio, they had found in the walls of the building. And at the beginning, I couldn't believe it. I said, don't you mean in a cupboard? And they're like, no, no, no, in the wall. Because I was like, I couldn't. So anyway, it was in the wall. Plastered into the wall were all the patterns from his very first collection, which was such a kind of gift, in a way, because I sort of. I love the idea of a house having all these old stories. And I love the idea of ghosts in the wall because I think there are probably a lot of ghosts in that house. A lot of ghosts, many houses. But I love the fact that they. This history existed in the walls of this house. And then they were put in these bin liners, and then they were retrieved by the team at Givenchy. And in each of these brown envelopes was a pattern. And each pattern was a. Was. Was a pattern for a garment from his very first collection. And they were so beautiful because they had. You know, I talk about ateliers and about crafts people, but each of these patterns was not made in paper, but made in calico. And they had on. Annotated. On the. On the patterns were all the names of the model. So Bettina was written on one pattern. So it's almost like you not only had the sort of ghosts of the models who had worn them, but also the people who had made them in these patterns. So it sort of talked to the atelier, it taught to pattern cutting, it taught to the women that he was working with. So it was a really. And also it taught to a time when he was a young designer. So he was just the beginning. He was 24 years old, and you always think of him as this older designer. So it had all this. It was immediately, like, okay, go back to the beginning and start there.

[Sarah Burton]

How much did you use those. Those patterns from that first collection of Hubert de Givenchy. And how much did your. Your debut sort of spin from your own mind? How are you building your vocabulary there?

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, I didn't use any of the patterns, if I'm honest. I just. It was almost more of a metaphor. So really what I. What I wanted to do was, you know, it was almost. I looked at it like sort of in an anatomical way, thinking, okay, to build a house, you have to build the backbone, the spine, or the foundation. So, and to me, it's always. And it always has been about a silhouette. So I. What I really wanted to do was, at the very beginning, establish, take all the kind of noise away and take all the fuss away and just establish what is the silhouette. And the kind of gift of Givenchy is it's a house where you have the tailoring and the flu, so you have these. This sort of juxtaposition of hard and soft. And so I really wanted to take all of the surface decoration away and work on a sort of a modern silhouette for women today. So the tailoring with a slightly dropped shoulder and the knitted waist. And so I really want to start on what's the tailored silhouette and what's the dress. And again, stripping back the dress. So it has a simplicity to it. And I thought, if I can start with a foundation, then and it can grow from there.

[Sarah Burton]

You say stripped back, but it's quite sculptural. It's very strong.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes. I wanted it so to really echo a woman's body. I love the fact that they. That you feel quite held in the piece. So I tried, you know, I did a lot of toiles of. For the tailoring especially, and the dresses, but I wanted it to have a very. To be instantly recognizable as Givenchy. So it had an immediate. Immediately you knew what that silhouette was.

[Sarah Burton]

Do you foresee that silhouette sort of continuing? Will we recognize it next season and the season on? Do you imagine, you know, manipulating it a bit?

[Nicole Phelps]

I think I'd like to. I'd like to take it and I mean, I always think that it's great to sort of. To challenge things and push them somewhere else. So I love the idea of taking that quite kind of sculptural silhouette and softening it and sort of, how do you take away the canvassing inside the jacket? How do you soften the fabric? So I'd like to sort of take that silhouette and soften it for next season.

[Sarah Burton]

At one point, you were talking about your. Your Givenchy, your first collection, and you said that it was about talking to women about what they would want to wear. And I wonder if there are women in particular that. That you talk to that you. You take a lot of pointers from. And what were those conversations like?

[Nicole Phelps]

Completely. I mean. I mean, for me, it's, like, always a conversation. So a lot of what I do is 3D and fittings. I mean, I've been very fortunate to do many, many shows, and I love doing fashion shows. But I've also, in the past, probably five years, learned so much from dressing women for real life, which is essentially what our role is as designers. And I've learned so much from dressing women for situations where they need to feel strong or maybe they feel vulnerable, they need to feel empowered. So, you know, I very much have conversations with lots of different women about how they want to feel, what they need to feel. Like when you put a jacket on and it makes you feel a certain way. When you put a dress on, it makes you feel a different way. So to me, it was about talking to the women I address, but also talking to the women that I work with, how, you know, I loved it after I did my first collection, or the pattern maker head of atelier said to me, oh, I. So I want that coat and that dress. I was like, great. So the idea that people in the studio want to wear the clothes is not just for a show or for, you know, people often say to designers, who's your woman? And I think that what I love is dressing women as a collective, and women in their different. In all the different moments in their life when they want to feel strong or they have a vulnerability or they. So I think that, you know, I love taking what I do and then making them feel the best they possibly can in the clothes.

[Sarah Burton]

There's a beautiful part of the article in the August issue about you, where Cate Blanchett, who you've dressed many times, says you feel so looked after when you put on Sarah's clothes. There's a gasp because they have this incredible surprise, but they feel somehow inevitable. How do you react to that?

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, she's amazing. I mean, it's just. I mean, when it. When. What I love about Kate is that she has. She has, first of all, such incredible. First of all, everything she does, I have such respect for. But she has this amazing presence that, you know, she. She understands clothes and. And understands how they make you feel. And she sort of. I feel. I feel that. That when you dress her, you immediately. She sort of brings it all to life somehow. But I also feel like when you. When you put clothes on, I think that. That it's quite an emotional thing, in a way. You know, people don't need to say. When I'm dressing somebody, they don't say, oh, the sleeve doesn't feel right. You could see it when they put it on. You don't need to sort of say, this doesn't fit properly here, or, I don't like the length, because you can. It's a physical thing as well. You can always feel how people react. And I think I'd be fortunate enough to be in so many fittings that you know how people are going to, you know. You know how to then change the garment to make people feel comfortable. And quite often, I make people a suit, and then they put it on and they hate it. I can imitate. I think they don't need to tell me I can immediately change it, not that they hate it. If they put it on, and I feel like it doesn't. It's not how they want to feel. I can immediately change it into something. Something different that will make them feel more themselves.

[Sarah Burton]

You have a very specific combination of, you know, the practical and then the spectacular. And I think when those things work in tandem, you know, that's where the success is. I think.

[Nicole Phelps]

It'S interesting because I think when you're dressing women, I really do look at it as an individual woman for each person that I dress. So I think, okay, what's the event they're going to and how do they want to feel? How does it say the message from Givenchy, but also, like, how do they want to feel as a woman? Like, how do they want to feel? Held, and then how do they feel? They're kind of their best selves in a way. So what, you know, and what cut's going to suit them? What. What embroidery is gonna be enough, but not too much. What color? I think it's a real. Each one is like its own little collection somehow.

[Sarah Burton]

So we keep track of many things at Vogue Runway, and one thing we do at the end of each season is look at which images are the most saved by users. We have an image search and people who are clicking through the slideshows, they save an image maybe because they are inspired, may because they want to shop it somewhere down the line. And when I was looking at the list this season, four of the top 10 looks for fall 2025 were your. From your debut.

[Nicole Phelps]

That's amazing.

[Sarah Burton]

No, nobody came close. So, you know, your debut made quite a big impact at the same time. September will be, you know, a season of debuts. Many, many designers are starting over this season. And I wonder, I don't get the sense that you spend too much time thinking about that, you know, sort of, but maybe you do. And I wonder if you feel, feel the pressure of the fashion industry and this sort of, you know, competition at all.

[Nicole Phelps]

I've always felt that, like maybe work at McQueen for so long or is it. And it really. McQueen never felt like, yes, we were always part of the fashion industry. But I think that I learned quite often that you have to tell your own story. For me, it's about connecting with women. Like, that's what I love to do is like, I love it when I dress somebody and they feel amazing or they, or I love the conversations between the ateliers or the conversation between the people who wear the clothes. And I think that for me it's always about that's the end goal. It's like, you know, you're always going to be judged or criticized. Always challenge yourself and always be sort of creative and push yourself forward. But I think you have to sort of stay to what you do. You can't bend yourself out of shape to sort of to be what you're not really.

[Sarah Burton]

More with Sarah Burton after the break.

[Chloe Mel]

EBay. It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion over and over again. Your favorite designers expertly authenticated. Yeah, eBay. Things people love.

[Sarah Burton]

We are talking on the first day of the fall 2025 couture shows. They started in in Paris this morning. And as you said at the beginning of this conversation, Givenchy is a house that has cout. Where is your head on the subject of couture for Givenchy?

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, I love couture. I've always, always loved couture. I always used to be a bit of a joke at McQueen. I used to always love doing showpieces. Even when Lee was alive, I would always, you know, that was my favorite part. So I'm very excited about doing couture. I obviously would love to. What I really wanted to do is to sort of build the ready to wear fur so that has a kind of strong signature and backbone. And then wanting to do couture in July next year. So I have a little bit of time, but. But I can't very excited about working with all the amazing ateliers and the artisans and, and sort of challenging myself, challenging, you know, them to sort of create something that's, you know, for next July. But then in the same breath, I Always love the fact that there are couture pieces in the ready to wear show because I love the fact that, you know, I can, you know, we have the ready to wear, but also there's, you know, the jeweled bodice that we did. There's pieces that are just sort of couture pieces, but they're ready to wear as well. So I think it's always nice to have that mix.

[Sarah Burton]

Okay, so we are going to wait patiently for a year, but in the meantime, it is a real full circle moment. You were at Givenchy briefly in the late 1990s and here you are again. And, you know, is there like a bit of a pinch me moment when. When you walked through. Through the doors again, or do you not reflect so much on the past?

[Nicole Phelps]

I always say the past is always with you, but never. I don't think you can let it weigh heavily on you. I think that I sort of experience so many things that you kind of have to be the part. You know, I always. The past makes you who you are and you take those experiences with you. But you have to. To me, what was great was, I mean, I recognized the studio. I was like, oh, my God, this is where leader the fittings. And so it was kind of amazing because you. I remembered all those moments with the different teams that were. The team that you want was team up McQueen. But. And you know, it's familiar, but so different. So it was, it was kind of. It was. It was. It was a bit of a. Oh, my God. This is definitely. This is. That was Leigh's office. It's definitely. It's not Lee's office anymore. And also, like, quite often at McQueen, I would look at the Givenchy. Sometimes pieces that Lee had made for Givenchy, I would not reference for McQueen, but I would look at it. It was funny in my first week, actually, I looked at all of Hubert's work and all of Lee's work. So it was an interesting. And so it's a bit. It was very familiar with a lot of it. So it was a bit. It was a bit like coming home in a way as well.

[Sarah Burton]

Well, as you say, the past is always with us, but of course, fashion is about moving forward and pushing forward. So with that in mind, I wanna ask you about Instagram and social media. You have said you don't design for Instagram, but how do you feel social media and the sort of online culture of today impacts your work or fashion more broadly?

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, for me, I think the great thing about social media is it often demystifies fashion because I think at a certain point it was very unobtainable and it was very, you know, it feels quite remote from people. And I think that what I like to do, and I'd like to do more of is to sort of show process and get people interested in how things are made. Because I think that it's interesting to understand that it's not put on a pedestal that people can't. Anybody can be involved in fashion, which is also what I'd eventually like to do. At Givenchy has set up workshops for young people to come in and learn how to pass and cut and, you know, work on embroideries and work on print and all the different workshops I used to do before. And in a way, I think it's, you know, it has obviously has its huge benefits. It reaches many, many, many people. I mean, I'm not on it personally, because I feel like. And I always like the work to do to talking. And I think that one of the last luxuries we have as people is to be private. So I like to sort of stay quite private. But I think it's, you know, has its great benefits. But also, if you look at it too much, I think it's sort of. It's quite nice to sort of not be too influenced by it as a designer because, you know, I, you know, really love looking at a book because, you know, like, if you look on the Internet, search for, I don't know, 18th century frock coats, you're gonna all get the same pictures, whereas if you go to a book, you're gonna find a different picture. If you go to a museum, you find something different. So I always encourage people, the teams, to sort of find other sources of material that is not being fed to you that you can find yourself. I know it takes a bit longer, but I think it's a good thing to do.

[Sarah Burton]

Well, what you were just saying is quite interesting, this idea that the Internet and social media have demystified fashion. I will say that, you know, there still is a mystique and a mystery even for me. For, you know, as someone who's been watching the industry for so long, you know, what I so enjoyed about seeing you earlier this year in the Givenchy atelier is just how hands on you are. And so, you know, famously with a pin cushion attached to your wrist. So talk a little bit more about the parts of your job that you love.

[Nicole Phelps]

I love being an atelier. I love doing fittings. For me, we working on clothes for women and they're not. Not flat cutouts. They are 3D. So. So I. I love the drawing part, but when it. When you comes to fitting, that's when it really comes to life, because you see it move. And I make the. I ask the model to walk. The fit model becomes part of the design team in a strange way because they can, you know, they can try things on. You can see how it, you know, how it moves, how it. How it doesn't fit, how it fits, how it changed proportion. And you become very used to looking at things and understanding how what proportions are and how they feel. Right. And how they look. Right. And how do you make it look different? How do you push it into a. Into a different silhouette or keep the same silhouette? And. And I also love working with the teams of people. You know, I was quite surprised when I arrived at Givenchy. It was built. It has all these separate little rooms and I sort of be like, oh, my God, I love it to be all in one space. So everybody has this creative energy that, you know, the print designer can see what the shoe team are doing and they can see what the embroidery team are doing. So we're in the process of sort of knocking the walls down now. Can all be in the same room, which is a bit radical. But actually there's again, that sort of idea of it being, you know, not being scared of other people's ideas and not being sort of all sort of siloed into different departments. It's nice that everybody talks to each other and everyone works as a team, but I love it when the clothes come to life, and I think that's why I love fitting so much and also why I've loved. You know, I love it when I go to a fitting with, say, Cate Blanchett. She's incredible because it just comes to life and you understand about, you know, what she represents, what conversations you're trying to have. So. But we always have a fit model in the studio, so every day there's a fit model there, because it can be like a big fitting where you try everything on or just fitting daily, as always, a joke. It's like a sort of fit, a song where you're constantly trying things on and changing them. But the sort of evolution of it all is, what's interesting is the kind of process, how you get from one point to another point. So it never stops changing until is actually on the catwalk, basically. Yeah.

[Sarah Burton]

I wanted to talk about the comfort factor of clothes, though, too. You know, I think as women, we. We can spend a Lot of time in uncomfortable clothes or accessories because we. We like the way the look of them, but. But that's something that you avoid.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that I really. I think that's why I love looking at what's inside the garment as well, because I almost just feel like it's really important to strip away as much as possible from the stretching of the diamond. I know sometimes for a show, people want to make it quite heavy because, again, it's that sort of Instagram thing a bit look at having to look like a silhouette somehow. But I think that really it's about. You've got to move. You have to move in these pieces. They have to feel comfortable on you. And then when you. When they feel comfortable, you feel much more empowered than if you sort of, like, unable to move and things. So, yes, it's very important.

[Sarah Burton]

So it's going on a year now that you've been at Givenchy, and I wondered, have you learned anything from Givenchy in your studies of his. His archive or the photographs? Anything that.

[Nicole Phelps]

Not.

[Sarah Burton]

That's gonna sort of shape, you know, the next collection, but sort of more. More as a, you know, a mentor from the other. You know, from the other side.

[Nicole Phelps]

I think, weirdly, not weirdly, I think his relationship. He wasn't afraid of being a couturier and a dressmaker for women and having clients. He seemed to be very proud of, you know, not being. Not saying that he wasn't an artist in his own way. I feel like he really, really loved his relationship with the clients that he worked with, which maybe that's something I knew, but maybe didn't notice the extent at which that was so important to him.

[Sarah Burton]

Well, it just. It speaks to that idea that I was talking about of sort of like the practical aspects of your job and the spectacular aspects of your job. And the magic is when you can. When those things come together, you know, they have to come together.

[Nicole Phelps]

I mean, it's interesting what you're saying about dressing, addressing women or people for. For these events that they go to, all these moments in their life is you. And. And I suppose, in a way, for me, that's a very. That is couture. You know, in. In many ways, you talk about couture. That is a moment when you really are doing couture because you're. And you're going from something that is a very personal, intimate fitting to something that's going to be so kind of so seen. So this is sort of strange juxtaposition of this moment. When you're in somebody's quite often house or hotel room or whatever, and you'll dress, you're working on something with them that feels quite intimate and yet it's going to be seen on a grand scale. And quite often it's not hard, but it's interesting to think. You have to think, okay, this is how I'm seeing this piece in the room. But actually it's going to be seen in this environment. So you have to sort of constantly sort of remind yourself of where. Of what these moments are. You know, I remember doing, you know, fittings on actresses in the, in the belly of the barbican in tiny, tiny dressing rooms and thinking, oh, yeah, but this is going to be a world premiere. So it's this weird kind of. That's what I love about the job. You get these funny moments where you're in this, you know, like the sort of belly of the barber come to being in these kind of. Then, then it. Then you see it and it's an obvious different stage. So it's sort of getting all those nuances right. I love it. It's kind of a challenge in a way.

[Sarah Burton]

That reminds me of what you said about designing in 360, that, you know, you're. You're not just looking at the flat, the flat image, you know, on the screen.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah.

[Sarah Burton]

It's a real 360 degree job.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah. And that's what's so different about doing the fashion show from doing real people. Because you're in the fashion show and you know, like I said, for Instagram, you're doing it for that picture that people see on their phones and it's flat. And then for a real life event, which is actually the reality of these clothes you hope that they're going to be in the real world is you're seeing it from 360. So that's why I love fittings, because you're building something. You're almost like sculpting on a. On a purse, on a body and seeing how it falls and how it hangs and how it drapes. And, you know, I know people always look horrified when I get the scissors out, but, you know, you have to kind of cut and pin and drape because you're sort of almost like building it on a body. And it's only till you see it on a body that you understand if it works or it doesn't work. I think that's what I love doing.

[Sarah Burton]

I do want to talk about the issue of women creative directors, because we don't have enough in fashion, I think. Why aren't there more of them?

[Nicole Phelps]

I don't know. Nicole, why do you think?

[Sarah Burton]

Oh, gosh, long, long standing power structures take a long time to, to un. Unstructure, I suppose.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, I think so too. I think that's exact. I mean, I mean, I went to a school where, like, I think I'm from quite a. I think I said it before. My, My, my dad was brought up very much by his. All women in his family because of course, his, his father was. Was away during the war for seven years. So. So I've always sort of grown up in environments where there've been very strong women and Also being at McQueen, Lee loved strong women. It was always about these very strong women. So I'm always surprised when you do get that pushback and you do, and it does happen, and it's always quite surprising because it's sort of, for me, I always believe that women can do anything. It's really. Well, they can do anything. But there is still a kind of. I think there still is a barrier.

[Sarah Burton]

We, we like to ask this of, of all the designers that come on the podcast because we have so many young listeners at the run through, what, what advice do you have for other young people who, who are interested in getting into fashion or pursuing design?

[Nicole Phelps]

I, I mean, the thing that I would say is try and learn as much as you can. Like, when I. There's. It's very, there's no, seems to be no real obvious career path like other professions. I think that I, at the very beginning, I think knowledge, my dad said to me once, the knowledge is the one thing. Education is the one thing nobody can take away from you. So if you, and you really have to go and pursue it yourself. So I would, you know, I think go to the factories, go to the mills, go and work in studios, go and do work experience, go and make the tea, go and do anything. Because I think that the more you see and the more you learn, the more you understand if it is a job you want to do and also what the jobs are within the industry. I also think, you know, be curious, question things, you know, work hard, believe in you, be authentic. You know, I've, you know, you have to be true to yourself. No matter whether people like it or hate it, you have to be true to yourself and work hard. I think that's really the key.

[Sarah Burton]

Thank you, Sarah.

[Nicole Phelps]

Thank you so much.

[Sarah Burton]

It's always great to talk to you.

[Nicole Phelps]

Thank you, Nicole.

[Sarah Burton]

Thank you. That's it for the run through. See you next week.

[Chloe Mel]

The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global Audio. When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like an iconic Dior saddlebag or a stunning diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that never disappoint. Expertly authenticated. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace, brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be besties with your other handbag, or an eternally classic watch like a Rolex oyster or Cartier tank, you know the one. EBay's experts ensure that you're getting the real deal. That way you can be confident that the designer finds you came for the luxury wardrobe you've always wanted. It's all real. In fact, it's verified authentic. So bring your high standards and never limit what you can truly find. Yeah, ebay the place for new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion. Ebay things people love.

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