Jean Smart Talks The Bittersweet End of Hacks | PLUS Charli XCX's First British Vogue Cover

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Jean Smart Talks The Bittersweet End of Hacks | PLUS Charli XCX's First British Vogue Cover
Date: April 16, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle and Chioma Nnadi
Main Guests: Jean Smart, Rajika Seth, Rebecca Ford, Christian Allaire

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Overview

This episode of The Run-Through with Vogue is a vibrant mix of pop culture commentary and an in-depth interview with Jean Smart on the final season of HBO's Hacks. The hosts first celebrate Charli XCX’s debut British Vogue cover and discuss current fashion and entertainment happenings, from Euphoria’s latest season to Cannes Film Festival gossip. The main segment features Jean Smart reflecting on her career, the legacy of Hacks, fashion in the public eye, and personal stories about motherhood and single parenting.

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Charli XCX’s First British Vogue Cover (02:24–04:34)

• The Cover’s Significance:
  • Charli XCX graces her first British Vogue cover, marking a new "rock era" as she works on her inaugural rock album.
  • The cover, shot by Raf Pavarotti and styled by Kate Phelan, channels glam rock history with bold blue eyeshadow.
• Interview Highlights:
  • Laura Snapes conducts a deep dive into Charli’s creative process.
  • Charli's approach to life: “her life is art and art is life. There’s no separation for her.” – Chioma Nnadi (03:36)
  • Anecdotes about Charli wearing her wedding dress on stage and incorporating personal style into daily life.

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Film & TV Highlights

Elle Fanning and Michelle Pfeiffer in "Margot’s Got Money Troubles" (04:34–06:26)

• Friendship Origins:
  • Elle and Michelle have been close since filming I Am Sam in 2001, forming a mother-daughter bond that continues in their roles.
• Show Premise:
  • The show offers a playful, surreal take on OnlyFans through the lens of creative personal reinvention.

Euphoria & Sexy Wedding Guest Dressing (06:55–09:31)

• Euphoria Returns:
  • First three episodes previewed, featuring a memorable wedding episode with bold, skin-baring fashion.
  • “How sexy can you dress at a wedding?” – Rajika Seth (08:14)
  • Hosts debate appropriateness and enjoy discussing “naked dressing” trends possibly appearing at weddings and the Met Gala.

Cannes & White Lotus News (10:01–12:11)

• Breaking News:
  • Next season of White Lotus to be set during the Cannes Film Festival, filmed at the iconic Hôtel Martinez.
• New Cast Reveals:
  • Includes Helena Bonham Carter, Heather Graham, Rosie Perez, Kumail Nanjiani, Chris Messina, Steve Coogan, Vincent Cassel.
• Cultural Commentary:
  • Hosts declare loyalty to HBO classics: Euphoria, Succession, White Lotus.

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Fashion & Culture Updates (12:14–13:15)

• Fashion-Sports Crossover:

  • Christopher John Rogers teams with Old Navy.
  • WNBA Draft praised for players’ standout personal style: “It’s so impressive to see so many kick off their career with so much style and have such a signature personal style off, you know, from the jump.” – Chioma Nnadi (12:55)

• Coachella Dispatches (13:49–16:32):

  • Christian Allaire (Vogue): Highlights Sabrina Carpenter (custom Dior), Justin Bieber’s “YouTube section,” artist merch as a new accessory.
  • Teen Vogue Team: Cat’s Eye and Hunt Tricks (K-pop) praised, accessories (belts, headscarves) cited as festival musts.
  • Love for crowd style—“It’s very peacock city”—and standout performances like Fujikaze and OK Lou.

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Main Interview: Jean Smart on The Bittersweet End of Hacks (18:45–50:58)

On Premiere Fashion & Industry Expectations (19:05–20:46)

• Jean trusts her stylist, preferring outfits that flatter her unique shape.

• On Hollywood’s focus on appearances:
  “This business only cares about the neck up.” – Jean Smart (19:46)

• Discusses the relief in aging in Hollywood, and the liberation of playing “fat old ladies with gray hair.” (20:19)

Career Reflections & Acting Philosophy (21:12–22:24)

• Versatility prized: “To me, that’s what you do when you’re an actor.” – Jean Smart (21:54)
• Describes herself as straddling “character actress and leading lady.”
• Recent one-woman show on Broadway performed (even with broken leg).

EGOT Storyline & Emmys Anecdotes (22:36–23:09)

• Lost (misplaced) one of her seven Emmys during a recent house move.
• Keeps Emmys on a high shelf; values them highly.
• Moving New York episode for Hacks featured—great energy filming in NYC.

Character Insights & Emotional Endings (25:54–27:19)

• Overlap with Deborah Vance: shares humor but not bitterness or distrust.
• “She’s let those things that happened to her just kind of fuel her for many, many years, and I think she starts to learn to give that up this season.” – Jean Smart (26:14)
• Sadness in Deborah’s relationship with her daughter; Ava fills a surrogate role.

Memorable Moments:

• Favorite Joke: Deborah sending a drag impersonator to her daughter’s parent-teacher conference (28:41).
• Sweetest gesture: Deborah allows unflattering paparazzi shots for her daughter’s financial self-sufficiency (29:01).

Behind the Scenes & Cast Relationships (29:46–31:31)

• Natural repartee with Hannah Einbinder (Ava); little improv but real chemistry.
• Anecdote: Jean jokes with Hannah about getting her cast (“I told the producers that if they didn’t hire you, I wasn’t gonna do the show… No. What are you, nuts?” – 31:02)
• No plans to do real stand-up, finds it too terrifying (“I love doing fake standup. I absolutely love it.” – 31:36).

Fan Encounters & Hacks Fandom (32:07–33:51)

• “Little Debbies”—Deborah Vance superfans—are a running joke and shown in the new season.
• Wildest fan request: signing someone’s arm to be tattooed (33:33).

Hacks Legacy & Finale (34:25–35:10)

• Possible spinoffs joked about (Paul & Meg, Jimmy & Kayla, Josefina).

• Emotional last shoot in Paris at the Louvre: “That last moment ... Lucia said, that’s a wrap on Hacks. Wow. And was like, oh, it’s really happening.” – Jean Smart (34:51)

• If she could steal from the Louvre? A Vermeer or a Cézanne (35:32).

Personal Life: Fashion, Family, and Motherhood (39:20–48:52)

• Jean’s own wardrobe vs. Deborah’s: “Looks like someone threw a grenade in my closet and shut the door.” (39:39)

• Confesses to taking drapes from set, “and I would do it again.” (41:00)

• Minor time spent in Vegas during filming; loves playing blackjack, recently won $800.

• Favorite shows: Succession, The Crown, Antiques Roadshow (“I’ve watched it so much that they’re repeating and I go, oh, no, that one’s a fake.” – 42:09)

• First fashion memory: “My mother told me that nice girls wore slips.” (42:47).

• Off-duty style: Paint-splattered, baggy jeans from Free People, hoodie—casual and comfortable.

• Plans after Hacks: Producing projects with her company Smart Angel Entertainment, including one about a volunteer surgeon in Iraq (Paradise General).

• Parenting as a single mom:
  “It’s really the hardest thing I’ve ever done. My hat is off to any single working mom. I don’t know how they do it...” – Jean Smart (45:39)

• Mother’s Day: Typically, a simple lunch or trip to Ojai with her sons (47:03).

• Pets: Two rescues—Australian Shepherd mix and Great Pyrenees Golden Retriever mix (“He’s about £90 ... the sweetest, mellowest thing.” – 48:16).

• Favorite recent movie: Maestro by Bradley Cooper (“I would kill to work with Bradley as a director ... he’s not afraid to take really long pauses.” – 49:17)

• Pop fandom:

  • Big Harry Styles fan; delighted to receive flowers, salt shaker, and tickets from him after he watched Hacks.
  • “He used to check into hotels under D. Vance. … On the 13th floor.” (50:19–50:36)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Her life is art and art is life. There’s no separation for her.” – Chioma Nnadi on Charli XCX (03:36)
• "This business only cares about the neck up." – Jean Smart (19:46)
• "She’s let those things that happened to her just kind of fuel her for many, many years, and I think she starts to learn to give that up this season." – Jean Smart (26:14)
• “I told the producers that if they didn’t hire you, I wasn’t gonna do the show… No. What are you, nuts?” – Jean Smart (31:02)
• “It’s really the hardest thing I’ve ever done. My hat is off to any single working mom. I don’t know how they do it ...” – Jean Smart (45:39)

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Memorable Moments

• Debate on “sexy wedding guest dressing” and fashion’s intersection with sports and music scenes.
• Charli XCX and blue eyeshadow’s glam-rock revival.
• The emotional and literal wrap of Hacks at the Louvre.
• Jean’s honest takes on aging, parenting, and self-deprecating humor.
• The unique gift from Harry Styles, blending TV and pop fascination.
• Jean’s relatable response to real-life wardrobe management and parenting messes.

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For Listeners on the Go: Key Segments to Skip To

• Charli XCX Vogue Cover: 02:24–04:34
• Rajika Seth on Elle Fanning/Michelle Pfeiffer Project: 04:34–06:26
• Euphoria & Sexy Wedding Dressing: 06:55–09:31
• Cannes & White Lotus News: 10:01–12:11
• Coachella Fashion & Music Recap: 13:49–16:32
• Jean Smart Main Interview: 18:45–50:58

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Summary Style & Takeaway

The Run-Through’s hosts blend witty banter, nostalgia, and fashion-forward conversations with genuine warmth and inclusivity. The Jean Smart interview stands out for its vulnerability, humor, and candor—touching on industry change, artistic legacy, and the realities of fame, parenting, and self-acceptance. The episode offers both cultural temperature-taking and timeless entertainment wisdom, perfect for pop culture fans and those seeking inspiration from one of television’s iconic comedic talents.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host 1]

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[Rebecca Ford]

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[Choma Nardi]

This is the run through. I'm Choma Nardi and today I'm here with my colleague Rajika Seth. Would you like to introduce yourself?

[Rajika Seth]

Yes, I'm Rajika. I'm the film and culture editor at Bridget.

[Choma Nardi]

You know, I always look forward to our conversations.

[Jean Smart]

Me too.

[Choma Nardi]

Because we. You are literally the guide for all things film and culture. So thank you for coming on today.

[Rajika Seth]

Thank you for having me back.

[Choma Nardi]

So I guess we have a lot coming up on the show today. HBO's Comedy Hacks is back for its fifth and final season and Jean Smart stopped by to talk to Chloe. But first, before we hear from Jean, we have to start with our big news. I may cover drops of today, which is great.

[Rajika Seth]

So exciting.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, super exciting. It's Charli Xiax's first British Vogue cover, which I'm so excited for. I think we've been thinking about doing her for a long time and we wanted to wait until she just had the right moment and she's actually recording her first rock album.

[Rajika Seth]

Wow.

[Choma Nardi]

So she's going in a completely different direction. It's like the end of Bratz.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

So she's stepping into a whole new era. And we had Laura Snapes do the interview. She did our Ray interview, which was really great. So she's a real music nerd and journalist and was really got into it on the creative process, which I thought was really great. And Raf Pavarotti, who's shot several times for us, did the COVID which I think looks gorgeous and really nods to that glam rock history with that wonderful blue eye makeup. And Kate Phelan, longtime contributing Vogue editor, styled it. And I think she just looks like a really. The best version of herself.

[Rajika Seth]

And we've been talking about the blue eyeshadow a lot in the office as well, because we were like, is this back? Because I feel like it's such a

[Choma Nardi]

great look, isn't it? It's such a great look.

[Rajika Seth]

And what was your favorite takeaway from the interview?

[Choma Nardi]

I think for me, it's always lovely to hear how kind of intentional she is about everything. And that for her, like, her life is art and art is life. There's no separation for her. Everything she does is kind of an expression of who she is in an artistic statement. And she talked. We did a video, a fun video with her at some of her favorite vintage dolls, and she talked about wearing her wedding dress, like, off into the world the next day or on stage.

[Rajika Seth]

Oh, really?

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah. Like, she just kind of walking out of the house is a moment for her.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

And that's what kind of I love about. I love about her, and I love about rock stars and kind of musicians in general, is that they just. It's a lifestyle.

[Rajika Seth]

They live it. They live it.

[Choma Nardi]

They live it and breathe it. It's not like they're wearing a character and they kind of fuck out for the day. It's a Persona. It's who they are. And so that was one of the favorite things about the.

[Rajika Seth]

I love it. I'm so happy it's coming out.

[Choma Nardi]

Me, too. Me too. Big, exciting day. And I know you've been busy catching up with Elle Fanning and Michelle Pfeiffer, which is really exciting. What a combo. So that's for the new Apple TV Margot's got Money Troubles show.

[Rajika Seth]

That's right.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah.

[Rajika Seth]

And I didn't know how long they'd been friends. Do you like? It's kind of crazy. How did they meet? They're really close friends, so they actually. It's really funny. They met on. On Elle's first ever film, I AM Sam, in 2001. El was.

[Choma Nardi]

How was she three years old? Oh, my God, I can't believe. She's literally grown up in the spotlight

[Rajika Seth]

and she's so functioning.

[Choma Nardi]

So they've been best friends since she was 3.

[Rajika Seth]

I think they, like, played Barbies together on the set when El was three and Michelle was in that film. And then now they've stayed friends. I think they were in Maleficent 2 together, and now this is their third big project and they're playing mother or daughter.

[Choma Nardi]

What's it like interviewing them? Do they have that rapport? Do they seem really, like, just totally,

[Rajika Seth]

like, joined at the hip, like, finishing each other's sentences, like, giggling, like, whispering off camera, like, really, really cute together, which is so nice. And, like, also Michelle, I feel like I've not seen her around in as many projects for a while, so it's just so fun to have her back. Like, she's always been amazing, but this is, like, a really fun part for her.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, cool. I can't wait to see it.

[Rajika Seth]

Have you read the book Margot's Got Money Troubles?

[Choma Nardi]

No. It sounds like a book that might trigger me, but, yeah, I'm happy to. Money troubles, but is it good?

[Rajika Seth]

Yes.

[Choma Nardi]

And it's famous.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah. So I actually haven't read the book either, so the show was my first introduction to it. But it's basically about this character who has kind of an affair with her English professor, has a baby, and then she loses her job, and she's like, how do I make money? And then the answer is Onlyfans.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, so this is a. This book is Recent?

[Rajika Seth]

Yes, it's 2024.

[Choma Nardi]

Okay.

[Rajika Seth]

And it's basically. So then she goes down this, like, rabbit hole, and it's all very, like, surreal, very creative, very imaginative. Onlyfans content that she's creating. Oh, my God.

[Choma Nardi]

Really?

[Rajika Seth]

Just surreal and fun. And Michelle plays her, El's mum in the show, and it's really fun. And it's like the sort of Onlyfans surreal looks are all like her dressed as an alien with green or blue skin and crazy outfits. And I think it's a proper new perspective on Onlyfans. So I think it's a proper challenging your perceptions of it in a way that I thought was really fun.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

I can't say I've seen many depictions of it in films or kind of never gets a proper.

[Rajika Seth]

Do you feel like it's having a moment now, though? Cause I feel like Euphoria is also Right.

[Choma Nardi]

Well, we gotta talk about that because I am the biggest Euphoria fan, but I miss this. Yes, I am. So I'm very excited for this new season. And there was somewhat of a preview at the Balenciaga show in Paris because Pierpaolo is very good friends with Sam Levinson, who's the creator of the show, and they collaborated on this kind of immersive backdrop for the show. So that was kind of a sneak peek, but I haven't seen it yet. And so I need to know. Cause I think you've seen quite. You've seen three episodes.

[Rajika Seth]

I've seen the first three episodes.

[Jean Smart]

And.

[Rajika Seth]

And I'm just so happy it's back. Can I say, first of all, because I'm also like you, I'm such a big Euphoria fan. I think it's so brilliant at its best. It's just really, really amazing. The first episode I really enjoyed. The second and third, I think were a little bit slower. So I'm just curious to see where the rest of the season goes. But I'm also excited for episode three to be out because I think it's the wedding epis. So it's Cassie and Nate, Sydney Sweeney and Jacob Elordi getting married.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah.

[Rajika Seth]

Which kind of goes exactly how maybe you would think that it would. We're talking a lot about it in the Office because it's also a moment for very sexy wedding guest dressing.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay.

[Rajika Seth]

So Alexa Demie and Hunter Schafer go like, really all out sexy for this wedding. And I'm just like, how sexy can you dress at a wedding? It's a proper argument in the Office, which is really fun.

[Choma Nardi]

This is a story that I want to read.

[Jean Smart]

Right.

[Rajika Seth]

Because I'm just like, everyone disagrees.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

Because it feels like not the moment to be uber sexy. I don't know.

[Rajika Seth]

But is it fun? I don't know.

[Choma Nardi]

Maybe it's fun. I think if it's a nighttime wedding and it's a bit more. It just depends on the location. Right.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah. It's all about context and like setting.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah, exactly. Cause I've seen some. There was a kind of a very fun downtown New York wedding. I think they were all went to Mexico. And I felt like it was like all very much like skin. Naked dressing.

[Rajika Seth]

I love it.

[Choma Nardi]

And I was quite like, oh, I wouldn't. But I'm generally not the person who's gonna wear naked dress anyway.

[Rajika Seth]

Fair enough.

[Choma Nardi]

But I was quite surprised to see how naked it was for a wedding. But maybe that's the thing now.

[Rajika Seth]

Maybe. And I hope this summer we see a lot more like naked dressing at weddings.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah. I think we're gonna see. Probably gonna see some naked dressing at the Met, given that the theme.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, my God.

[Choma Nardi]

Yeah. It's all about the body and art in the body.

[Rajika Seth]

But, yeah, I'm excited for you to see Euphoria. I think it's fun. I'm glad it's back. Excited to see where the rest of the season takes us. But also, Zendaya is so good. She just so, so good.

[Choma Nardi]

She just keeps getting better and better.

[Rajika Seth]

The most amazing year as well. Like, the Odyssey, like, June coming up.

[Choma Nardi]

What are you most excited? What next Zendaya moment? How does she even have the time? I just don't know when she.

[Rajika Seth]

I don't know. It's just so many things. I think the Odyssey, I'm very curious about because I feel like I don't know how big her part is in that, but I think that's, like, quite a different kind of. I'm looking it up, and I think Zendaya's playing Athena, the goddess of wisdom.

[Choma Nardi]

Wow.

[Rajika Seth]

That's pretty major for her. So I feel like that I'm very excited about, for sure.

[Choma Nardi]

And then we've got Cannes coming up, which I always love hearing your reviews, but is there any gossip coming out of Cannes now? Anything that you're looking forward to already?

[Rajika Seth]

Yes. Well, something's just happened that I need to discuss with you. And it's literally just happened before. We've recorded this.

[Choma Nardi]

Breaking news, guys.

[Rajika Seth]

Well, so we'd hear that the new season of White Lotus would include something in Cannes, but now it's just been confirmed that it will be set during the Cannes Film Festival over that week.

[Jean Smart]

Wow.

[Rajika Seth]

The next season. And they're filming it when I'm gonna be there.

[Choma Nardi]

That is so meta. I know.

[Rajika Seth]

And I think there's gonna be at two hotels, but one of them is the Hotel Martinez, which is one of the big Cannes hotels. And what's it like? It's very glitzy. I stayed there my first time ever that I went to Cannes. It was, like, the most insane way to start. Like, it was impossible, basically. Like, the lifts are teeny tiny, so you have to queue for ages, and you get in, and then you're, like, face to face with, like, angina jolie. But, like, no one can speak to anyone, and everyone's, like, just, like, awkwardly trying to squeeze in while you go up. And then if you take the stairs, you can't go up because every level has a different influencer doing a photo shoot. Oh, God. So it's that kind of place.

[Choma Nardi]

And that's where they're filming. Yeah, it's going to be. How are they going to do it?

[Rajika Seth]

Because also the Martinez is booked out for the entirety of Cannes. So I'm like, have they booked out that hotel? And where are the celebrities going to stay?

[Choma Nardi]

Like, what's gonna happen? I don't understand why they would do that. What do you think the thinking is behind that?

[Rajika Seth]

I really don't know. I guess maybe they want, like, a different kind of vibe, because I guess they've had another European season before because it was in Sicily. I feel like there's a lot of speculation this time about would it be a new continent? Will it be, like a completely new location? So maybe this is, like a differentiation thing.

[Choma Nardi]

Do we know much about the cast yet?

[Rebecca Ford]

Yes.

[Rajika Seth]

So Helena Bonham Carter.

[Jean Smart]

Who?

[Rajika Seth]

I love Heather Graham, Rosie Perez, Camail Nanjiani, Chris Messina, Steve Coogan, Vincent Cassel.

[Choma Nardi]

Steve Coogan.

[Rebecca Ford]

I know.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, my God, I cannot wait. I love White Lots for passion.

[Rajika Seth]

You do, right? I mean, yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

It's like one of the shows that I just hold onto is, like, Euphoria, the ones that I really stuck with. Euphoria, Succession and White Lotus, like, forever.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

And then Sex and the Sea before that.

[Rajika Seth]

This is perfect. All the HBO classics.

[Rebecca Ford]

HBO classics.

[Rajika Seth]

I'm so loyal.

[Choma Nardi]

I mean, this week, as far as fashion, there were a couple of big moments. Christopher John Rogers, really beloved American designer, has a collab with Old Navy, which I think is really smart, and I'm excited for that. And their WNBA draft has. Everybody's talking about how much fashion there was, and I think we've been talking about how fashion and sport just have become completely embedded with each other. So, I mean, I think when I started years [e-mail], i don't think we were doing. We weren't doing slideshows of all the best red carpet looks from the WNBA draft. But now we are. I mean, there's just.

[Rajika Seth]

It's so cool that you are.

[Choma Nardi]

I know, I know. It's so cool, isn't it? These are all new players, and honestly, like, it's so impressive to see so many kick off their career with so much style and have such a signature personal style off, you know, from the jump and taking so many risks.

[Rajika Seth]

It's fun to see people having fun with it, Right?

[Odoo Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Rajika Seth]

People having fun with it and not be like, I'm here. Seriously, as a sports person.

[Choma Nardi]

Exactly, exactly. And I think it should feel like that. You know, we want to know what their personalities are. We want to get to know Them. And this knowing what they're like off duty is such a big part of that. We'll be back in a moment with Jean Smart on the latest episode of Hacks. But before we go, it was Coachella this past weekend or that did come through my feed too. And our friends at American Vogue and Teen Vogue were on the ground and have sent us this audio dispatch from the festival.

[Christian Allaire]

I'm Christian Allaire, Vogue's senior fashion writer, and these are my Coachella highlights. So night one was Sabrina Carpenter as the headliner, and her set was giving Hollywood to the extreme. All of her looks were custom Dior by Jonathan Anderson. So bringing some high fashion to the Coachella stage. She had such a big budget for the set. She really understood the assignment. The next day. Justin Bieber was sort of the show everyone was waiting for. I love that he took us down memory lane with his YouTube section where he was basically pulling up old videos and singing along to them.

[Jean Smart]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Podcast Host 1]

Y' all still with me?

[Jean Smart]

All right.

[Christian Allaire]

He wore this custom skylark hoodie that he designed these really cool Lou Dan shorts, which are now sold out. I loved his look. I also really loved seeing how people were styling their artist merchant, taking their favorite artist tees and then pairing it with designer jeans or, like this really cool crochet skirt or diying it or studying it. Like, that was really fun to see the merch becoming the fashion accessory of Coachella. Overall, it was a fun Coachella weekend, and those were my highlights. Bye.

[Jean Smart]

Hey, Vogue.

[Choma Nardi]

It's Jillian, the social lead of Teen Vogue. My favorite performance of the weekend was, hands down, Cat's Eye on day one. They were Teen Vogue cover stars last year, so to see them in person truly felt so full circle. And they also brought out Hunt Tricks from K Pop Demon Hunters. Just seeing them perform golden together actually made me a little bit emotional

[Rebecca Ford]

in

[Choma Nardi]

terms of standout fashion moments. Accessories, I do think truly were king. I felt like belts and headscarves, especially with maximalist patterns, were just everywhere. So maybe you'll be seeing me wearing those more. Who knows? That's it for me. Signing off. See you back in New York.

[Jean Smart]

Hi, Vogue.

[Rebecca Ford]

It's Emily, director video at Teen Vogue,

[Choma Nardi]

and Mi Anne, creative editorial director at Teen Vogue with a dispatch From Coachella Weekend 1. My favorite show this weekend was definitely Fujikaze. He's one of my favorite J Pop artists, needed a great show and had an amazing crowd.

[Rebecca Ford]

Personally, I loved OK Lou.

[Rajika Seth]

I saw her perform at Knockdown center

[Rebecca Ford]

in New York, but this performance was just next level

[Rajika Seth]

Everyone tries to put

[Rebecca Ford]

on a major look.

[Jean Smart]

It's very peacock city.

[Rajika Seth]

But I loved seeing everyone's outfits, to be honest.

[Choma Nardi]

It's like the best part.

[Rajika Seth]

Anyway, signing off.

[Jean Smart]

Are you guys having fun?

[Choma Nardi]

Ah, it's so fun to hear our friends at Coachella. It brings back memories of when I

[Rebecca Ford]

did used to go.

[Jean Smart]

I was gonna say, have you been before?

[Choma Nardi]

I went for my, like, 28th birthday when Prince performed.

[Rajika Seth]

Oh, my God.

[Choma Nardi]

That was amazing. One of the most amazing nights of my life.

[Jean Smart]

Wow.

[Choma Nardi]

The run through will be back with Jean Smart.

[Rebecca Ford]

Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford.

[Jean Smart]

And I'm John Ross.

[Choma Nardi]

And we're the hosts of Little Gold

[Rebecca Ford]

Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers.

[Christian Allaire]

And just because the Oscars are done

[Jean Smart]

for now doesn't mean we are.

[Rebecca Ford]

Join us every week for coverage of

[Choma Nardi]

the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with

[Rebecca Ford]

today's brightest stars, and so much more.

[Jean Smart]

Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday,

[Christian Allaire]

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Odoo Sponsor Voice]

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[Rebecca Ford]

Jean, I'm so excited to have you here. This is such a treat for us.

[Jean Smart]

Thank you.

[Rebecca Ford]

The Vogue team are huge hacks fans. So this has been a long time in the pipeline. We're very excited. I want to know about planning your premiere looks because I loved the silver suit that you wore.

[Jean Smart]

I just. I trust my stylist and he always gives me some choices and I think he's amazing and he knows things I like and things I don't like or things that look better on me than others. And so I like things that fit me under the Bust. Because it's kind of the only curve on my body, you know, so, you know, and then, of course, a little something around the hips is good because I don't really have any hips.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay. You know, also, when I was telling my mother that, wow, we were speaking today, she's actually coming in later today. We're doing a Mother's Day episode.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, how nice. Please give her my badge.

[Choma Nardi]

I will.

[Rebecca Ford]

But she was remembering that on the set of Sweet Home Alabama, she said, gene, you have such a great figure. And you said, unfortunately, this business only cares about the neck up.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, well, the movies. Yeah. On stage it occasionally helps, but yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

Has that. Have you found that the industry is more forgiving as you get to a certain age? I know that she feels like once she sort of got past 60, it was like, okay, well, now you're just going to be past 60. There's something almost liberating about being like, oh, okay, you're in this category now.

[Jean Smart]

No, it's true. And I've been thinking about that since Hacks has ended that there's a part of me that thinks, okay, now can I just play fat old ladies with gray hair? It would be such a relief because of course, Deborah was the antithesis of that. She would say that women who didn't color their hair.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

And didn't wear heels and tight clothes and things were quitters.

[Choma Nardi]

Well.

[Rebecca Ford]

And I remember I listened to a Terry Gross interview you did, and you were saying that part of you wondered if playing roles where you had no vanity and you really let your hair go gray and be rough, that that affected the way casting agents thought about you for future roles. Do you think that that was the case?

[Jean Smart]

I'm not sure. I mean, I think people have sort of always mistakenly thought that if you were doing dramatic roles and without makeup, that that meant you were a better actor, which I don't buy into at all.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

I think I've always been somewhere between character actress and leading lady. So I think there was a lot of time where casting directors weren't sure what to do with me. And I think it was easy for them to hire people who fit into certain categories, clearly. But I was from the theater, so I had always done every different kind of role in different styles of theater in different periods. And to me, that's what you do when you're an actor.

[Rebecca Ford]

Would you ever do theater again? And what would be the dream?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, yeah. In fact, I did a one woman show on Broadway last summer and that was really, really satisfying experience, really great I mean, I had to do a lot of it with a broken leg, unfortunately.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, my God.

[Jean Smart]

Other than that. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the show? But no. And I'm hoping to do it possibly in la, maybe this year or next.

[Rebecca Ford]

Are there any classic plays that you've always had a hankering for?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, gosh, no. On my bucket list is definitely to do a Noel Coward on Broadway. Okay. Yeah, that's on my bucket list.

[Rebecca Ford]

From your lips to.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. Somebody's ears.

[Rebecca Ford]

Apple music's ears.

[Christian Allaire]

Yes.

[Rebecca Ford]

I did love the EGOT storyline in this season of Hacks, and you have seven Emmys, which is fantastic. I want to know how you lost one of your Emmys.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, well, misplaced.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay.

[Jean Smart]

Temporarily misplaced. I don't want people to think that I'm frivolous and that I don't respect them. I do.

[Rebecca Ford]

Where do you keep your Emmys?

[Jean Smart]

They're in my office on a high shelf or on top of a cabinet. Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay. Have you moved them around? Have they been sort of gone with you?

[Jean Smart]

Well, I moved a couple years ago, so I'm still sort of feel like I'm unpacking.

[Podcast Host 1]

Okay.

[Jean Smart]

Because I've been too busy to completely move in.

[Rebecca Ford]

I know. I was very impressed. My mom's house in the Palisades burned down the fires, and it was very sad, but she's. And we're all just a very lucky person. But her Emmys burned, obviously, but they replaced them so quickly, and it was so lovely.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, how nice.

[Rebecca Ford]

And so now she has them in New York, which is nice because they were always in la.

[Jean Smart]

Well, maybe I should tell them I burned them down. One of them was swept away in

[Rebecca Ford]

a rain or something. Find your seventh one. We're recording this on a Wednesday, but this comes out on Thursday. The second episode of Hacks this season will come out when this show airs. The whole episode takes place in New York City. I love the beginning where it's set to back in the New York groove. I want to know what it was like filming in New York. Was that the first time the show had filmed in New York?

[Jean Smart]

Yes. Oh, it was great fun. It was beautiful here. And we, you know, people would drive by and wave, hey, hi. We love Hacks. So that was really fun. That was nice. And, you know, there's nothing like being in New York. And then we did Charlamagne, the God, his show.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, wow.

[Jean Smart]

And we did the View.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

In character, you know.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

So, yeah. No, it was great fun being here.

[Rebecca Ford]

And without spoiling anything, I did Love the Deborah's attempts to bribe people in that episode. Oh, very impressive with her. Impressed by her ingenuity. And I want to know when the last time you bribed someone was.

[Jean Smart]

It was probably one of my children, but I don't remember.

[Rebecca Ford]

Well, I was gonna say I bribed my children last night, but I think

[Jean Smart]

bribery is actually called for sometimes in parenting.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, my God. I mean, certain gentle parenting specialists say that you can't bribe people. I don't know how I would get through a weekend without it. I mean, have you ever done anything at Madison Square Garden, performance wise? No.

[Jean Smart]

No. But that was.

[Rebecca Ford]

I mean, I was impressed. Deborah wanted to take that on. It's a big, big venue.

[Jean Smart]

I. I guess. I guess to comedians, that's like winning the Tony or the Holy Grail.

[Rebecca Ford]

That's their egot.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. Although I thought it would be funny. Unfortunately, it wasn't gonna work because Deborah says that she already has, like, a. She already has a Tony for. Was one of the Monty Python shows. Cause she slept with one of them. So she got a Tony. But I thought it would be funny if she just gave up and just went for an ego. That's very funny, but it wasn't gonna work. She already had the tea.

[Rebecca Ford]

I'm sure everyone asks you this, but I'm curious where you and Deborah overlap and if you feel more like Deborah after playing her for five years or less like her.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, I definitely think I feel more like her. Definitely. Or she feels more like me. Maybe I should say that. No, I mean, we look a lot alike.

[Choma Nardi]

Mm.

[Jean Smart]

You know, so that she's a little taller than me. Just a little. I definitely share a sense of humor. Kind of sarcastic. The things I don't identify with are. And I love her house. Oof. Love her house. Especially that kitchen. But I don't identify with her. Her anger and her bitterness, kind of her distrust. She's let those things that happen to her just kind of consume her, but actually really fuel her. Actually not consume her. That's sort of been her fuel for many, many, many years, and I think she starts to learn to give that up this season.

[Rebecca Ford]

Any parenting overlap?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, God, I hope not. Oh, Lord, I hope not.

[Rebecca Ford]

I watched that christening scene, and I was like, thank God I did do a christening, because this could absolutely be Candace.

[Jean Smart]

What year's that one?

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, good.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. That was funny. That was funny. That was fun. No, hopefully. It's very sad, actually, her relationship with her daughter, because she loves her, but she comes to realize that she's never gonna be able to make up for what her daughter feels were abandonments and hurts. And she has to just kind of accept that. And that's sad. And I think Ava sort of becomes her almost surrogate daughter on some level to try to make up for that. Although one of my favorite jokes to date on the show was I think in season one, no, actually season two, where she starts to say, you know, what I need to do is stop insulting other people in my act, I need to talk about myself, make self deprecating jokes and be honest about my flaws. And people responded. And so she decided to go in that direction. But she said that one time when her daughter was in school, she had a gig on the east coast and her daughter was on the west coast and it was time for her daughter's parent teacher conference. But she had this great job on the east coast. She wasn't about to give up. So she sent her drag impersonator to the parent teacher conference.

[Rebecca Ford]

That's very funny.

[Jean Smart]

That was one of my favorite jokes. I thought, God, I hope that's true.

[Rebecca Ford]

There's a great Meryl Streep drag impersonator and I want to invite them to our devours Prada screening because Meryl can't come.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, my gosh. Yes, you have to. Oh, that's hilarious.

[Rebecca Ford]

She's very good.

[Jean Smart]

But actually, just, just on that note, I think the most loving thing we saw Deborah do towards her daughter was when we find out that she goes out occasionally, very occasionally, the paparazzi in public, looking like hell, knowing that her daughter's got photographers taking pictures and that her daughter sells them.

[Rebecca Ford]

I thought that was one of the most touching plot lines.

[Jean Smart]

And it's something you would only do for a child.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yes. Just for people who don't remember the specific moment. DJ tips off paparazzi when Deborah's looking really her worst and Ava finds out and breathlessly reports this to Deborah. And Deborah says, oh, I know I do it on purpose so that she can feel self sufficient and it's meaningful, it's powerful.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

I have loved watching your and Hannah Einbinder's relationship evolve on screen. And it feels like you guys have such a natural repartee. How much of that is improvised and

[Jean Smart]

not a lot ad libbed.

[Choma Nardi]

Not a lot.

[Jean Smart]

I mean, they definitely let us ad lib. And it's fun. It's fun when we do. They don't always use it, but sometimes. Sometimes they do. But no, she and I just clicked from day one. We just have a very similar sense of humor. She's so smart. She's so quick. I can't keep up with her sometimes. And I just. I admired her standup, and she was my first choice to play the role, and I was thrilled that they felt the same way. And I keep promising her, I'll never tell this story again. And I keep doing it. When we first started working together and she was still in awe of me, which she isn't anymore. She loves me, but no more awe. She came up to me one day and she said, you know, I found out that you really, really went to bat for me with the producers, and I really thank you for that. And I said, well, no, absolutely. I mean, I felt like you were perfect at the part. In fact, I said, I told the producers that if they didn't hire you, I wasn't gonna do the show. And she went, really? I said, no. What are you, nuts? I was like. As I was saying it, I thought, oh, no, this is. Please laugh. Please laugh.

[Choma Nardi]

Please.

[Jean Smart]

This is funny. And thank God she did. She roared. But she looked so sweet and innocent when she said that.

[Rebecca Ford]

Really,

[Jean Smart]

I couldn't resist. I just couldn't resist.

[Rebecca Ford]

Has her standup career or Paul's inspired you to want to do standup?

[Jean Smart]

No, no, I love doing fake standup. I absolutely love it. I wish I could have done more of it on the show, because when I had those scenes, I just had a blast. But, no, I would never. No, it's too terrifying.

[Rebecca Ford]

Madison Square Garden's not your holy grail.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, gosh, no, no, no, no, no.

[Rebecca Ford]

Did SNL feel like that at all?

[Jean Smart]

No, because we had. Everything was scripted. And also, the audiences at snl, they're kind of there for a party. And so everybody's, you know, having a good time.

[Rebecca Ford]

Everyone wants to. No one wants to laugh.

[Jean Smart]

They want to laugh. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Rebecca Ford]

We love the Little Debbies. Deborah's Little Debbie's. And I did I really related to in the second episode when the Little Debbies are basically just coming up to complain to Deborah.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, gosh. Wasn't that hilarious?

[Rebecca Ford]

It made me laugh so hard because you think people are gonna come and say something nice, and then I feel like I'm just like an HR department. Like, people are just complaining to me all day long. And

[Podcast Host 1]

I loved that.

[Rebecca Ford]

They have their merch, they host events, they send flowers. I liked the sort of flip of the girl who was sort of trying to All About Eve. Ava. Oh, yes, very funny.

[Jean Smart]

That was great. That one guy said that he sent her inappropriate letters and photos and stuff, and he Said you didn't even send me a cease and desist. I mean, do you not care anymore? So you can't win?

[Rebecca Ford]

Have you ever had little jeans or Hacks fans like that? What's your weirdest fan interaction?

[Jean Smart]

When I was doing the play in New York, a lot of Hacks fans obviously came to the show to see me because of hacks. But there was a woman who asked me to sign her arm so she could then get it tattooed.

[Rebecca Ford]

No.

[Choma Nardi]

Wow.

[Jean Smart]

And I was just. I didn't know what to say. I was like, oh, no, no. Are you sure? Oh, no, no, no, no. Where?

[Rebecca Ford]

On her arm, like her forearm.

[Jean Smart]

And it's hard to sign on skin and make it look good. And I said, are you. No, I don't wanna do this. Please. Are you sure? She says, no, go ahead, Go ahead. It was kind of messy, but she had it tattooed. And did she show it? Did she come back? No, I thought she was going to, but she showed it online. Yeah. Wow. I mean, it's flattering, but it was so shocking.

[Rebecca Ford]

That is unbelievable.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

I went back and rewatched one of the Frasier episodes you were on. I think it's the first one where

[Jean Smart]

that was the best one.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, my God. Where you have the conversation with your son. Instagram, put your brother on the phone.

[Jean Smart]

People used to come up to me on the street and yell that at me.

[Rebecca Ford]

I mean, I think any frazzled mother identifies with that very clearly.

[Jean Smart]

That was a blast. That was really fun.

[Rebecca Ford]

Is there any Hacks character that you would want to have the Frasier treatment versus Cheers, Like a spinoff show? Who do you think would make a good spinoff show?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, of hacks. Yeah.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh.

[Jean Smart]

The first thing that pops to mind would be Paul and Meg.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

Jimmy and Kayla. They're so funny together.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

Kayla, Josefina. I would love to see more.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, yes.

[Jean Smart]

I'd love to learn more about Josefina's private life. Maybe she and Damian would have a fun. A fun spin up. But she's already on a new series.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, wow.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

Was it emotional?

[Jean Smart]

It was actually. It was that last moment, which we shot in the Louvre, that last moment. And Lucia said, well, that's a wrap on Hacks. Wow. And was like, oh, did everyone cry? It's really happening. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

So you all went to Paris together?

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. Well, very, very few of our crew, though, unfortunately, we had to say goodbye to our crew. That was hard.

[Rebecca Ford]

That's hard. I obviously, I don't know what happens in the finale, but I was very intrigued to hear that it's at the Louvre. I want to know, if you were doing a Louvre heist, what would you steal?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, oh, a Vermeer painting.

[Rebecca Ford]

Mm. Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

Or a Saison.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay. All right, good answers. Do you feel like Hannah has connected you to Gen Z culture at all? Do you feel like you're more connected to the youth?

[Jean Smart]

I think I'm definitely more Woke after meeting Ms. Einbinder. Definitely no.

[Rebecca Ford]

Well, I saw she went to a big protest yesterday where a lot of people got arrested. Do you ever give her any advice?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, I did not. Did she? Oh, bless her heart.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

No, she's. No, I was just saying that to somebody is that I admire her so much. I mean, she has such the courage of her convictions, and it's a relief. And it's good to see. It's encouraging to see that.

[Rebecca Ford]

The run through will be back in just a moment with more of Jean Smart.

[Choma Nardi]

Foreign.

[Jean Smart]

I'm Jesse Sevchak.

[Choma Nardi]

And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic.

[Jean Smart]

And we're senior Test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake Club podcast.

[Choma Nardi]

Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers.

[Jean Smart]

We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive. And we love to talk about all the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it.

[Choma Nardi]

Every month, we publish a recipe, bon appetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know.

[Jean Smart]

Then you'll go bake. Send us any questions you have, and

[Choma Nardi]

we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And this month, we're making strawberry roll cake. It is the unofficial birthday cake of the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen, and it is the perfect way to welcome spring. Head to ba.com and come and bake along with us.

[Jean Smart]

Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to Bake club@bon appetit.com or find us on the substack.

[Choma Nardi]

Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake find.

[Jean Smart]

Ba Bake Club, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Choma Nardi]

Happy baking.

[Rebecca Ford]

So, yeah, what's your favorite meme recently? Or what video have you enjoyed?

[Jean Smart]

It shows a guy sitting on his couch and his wife, or I guess it's his girlfriend, she comes in and she says, you know, it's British, you know, but she says, I just can't do this anymore. You know, I cook and I clean for you, and you come home, and then I Have to cook and clean again. And then. And he's saying, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. He said, I have to tell you something. I have to show you something. He takes her into the laundry room. He says, do you see this basket? Whatever you put in this basket, it ends up clean and folded like on the foot of your bed. And she looks at him, she says, are you insane? And he says, no, I couldn't believe it either. And then he says, come here. I got something else to show you. And he points to the coffee table and he says, this coffee table, Whatever you put on here, it just disappears. It doesn't matter if it's a dirty pizza box, you know, half empty mugs and glasses. He goes, sometimes I just. I make it worse just to see. And he goes, it's just gone. The next morning, it's gone. And she says, that's it. That's it.

[Rajika Seth]

And she leaves.

[Jean Smart]

And then it shows him at the police station reporting her missing. And he says, I think she might have fallen on the magic coffee table. Cause she was there one night and then she was just gone the next morning. And the policewoman looks at him and she goes, are you insane? And the other cop goes, no, no. I have a coffee table just like it at home. So silly and so funny. Sorry, gentlemen. It was a little sexist.

[Christian Allaire]

Sorry.

[Jean Smart]

But it was funny.

[Rebecca Ford]

I'm very impressed with Deborah's ensembles. She's a very stylish individual. We saw her vast wardrobe warehouse last season, which made me laugh so much.

[Choma Nardi]

I loved it.

[Podcast Host 1]

What is.

[Rebecca Ford]

Is your personal wardrobe archiving similar?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, no, I should be. Cause I'm a Virgo. But no, mine's a disaster. Looks like someone threw a grenade in my closet and shut the door.

[Rebecca Ford]

Do you keep a lot of things or do you give things away or sell them? What's your.

[Jean Smart]

I'm kind of. I'm a little bit of a packrat, I think. Oh, I'll wear that again someday.

[Rebecca Ford]

And do you?

[Jean Smart]

No. You know. Cause either it doesn't fit, or it's out of style completely, or I don't really care about that that much, but. But Deborah's clothes. I loved what they did with Deborah's wardrobe from the beginning, as well as what they did with her house, because it would have been very easy. And I kind of expected it to be more Liberace style, Vegas, kind of not very tasteful. But her house was stunning. And I don't think it's necessarily that Deborah has exquisite taste. I think she can afford to hire people that have exquisite taste. And she knows it when she sees it. Right. But she still, you know, there's a part of her that still, you know, wears leopard print in a low dive, you know, comedy club.

[Rebecca Ford]

And did you take anything from set when it ended?

[Jean Smart]

From the.

[Rebecca Ford]

Let's hear. What were they? That's a recurring question.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah, I know, but we weren't really supposed to, so kind of putting us on the spot.

[Rebecca Ford]

Some drapes.

[Jean Smart]

I did. Yes, yes, yes. And I would do it again. There, I said it.

[Rebecca Ford]

It's very Scarlett o'. Hara.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah, right. And they're green, too.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, wow.

[Podcast Host 1]

There you go.

[Rebecca Ford]

Had you spent a lot of time in Las Vegas before this? Were you a Vegas person? How much of it did you film in Vegas? Any of it?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, we filmed. If we average it out over the five seasons, we probably filmed there a week, a year.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay.

[Jean Smart]

At the most.

[Rebecca Ford]

Are you a casino person?

[Jean Smart]

I do love to play blackjack. Okay. I do.

[Rebecca Ford]

Have you ever won a lot of money?

[Jean Smart]

I do. Okay. Like, the last time we were there, I won about 800 bucks.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, what did you do with it?

[Jean Smart]

My little Scottish grandmother was on my shoulder going, that's right, Lassie. That's a good loss.

[Rebecca Ford]

Did you play blackjack with any of the cast members or you went by

[Jean Smart]

yourself a couple times? Yeah, some crew people. Okay.

[Rebecca Ford]

What are you watching right now? What series do you.

[Jean Smart]

I don't watch much tv. I was addicted to Succession. I thought that was brilliant. The Crown. I was addicted to the Crown.

[Rebecca Ford]

What do you do instead? What's your wind down in the evening?

[Jean Smart]

Antiques Roadshow.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, interesting.

[Jean Smart]

Except that now I've watched it so much that they're repeating and I go, oh, no, that one's a fake. No, no, it's a fake. It's not worth anything. She should have left it at home. It's so embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed for you.

[Rebecca Ford]

That's how I'm with Law and Order. As for you, I'm like, no, no. This guy's the red herring. He's not actually the one. You'll find this out in 10 minutes.

[Jean Smart]

Whoever's the guest star did it.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yes, exactly. Anyone who was in Hamilton definitely did it.

[Jean Smart]

Exactly.

[Rebecca Ford]

We ask everyone who comes on the pod what their first fashion memory was. Do you have one?

[Jean Smart]

This is the first thing that pops in my mind. My mother's. My mother was a very smart lady. She was very well read. But, you know, she was a very different generation. She was born in 1922. She told me that Nice girls wore slips.

[Rebecca Ford]

Wow. Okay.

[Jean Smart]

I don't remember the last time I wore a slip. And if I said that to Hannah, she'd probably say, what's a slip?

[Rebecca Ford]

You know, no, slips are back.

[Jean Smart]

Are they?

[Rebecca Ford]

Yes, but just a slip. No dress.

[Jean Smart]

Well, I was gonna say I've seen a few of those at awards shows. And you can also sleep in it. So it's just kind of a multipurpose outfit. Exactly. Yeah. Mom was right.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay, what does off duty jean look like? What are you wearing on the weekend?

[Jean Smart]

It's pretty bad. Whatever's comfortable.

[Rebecca Ford]

It's what the paparazzi are getting.

[Jean Smart]

And I'll wear. Yeah. And I'll wear the same thing, you know, every day for a week. I have a pair of jeans that are kind of slightly shredded and paint spackled, but they came that way.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh.

[Jean Smart]

You know, they were from. I think it was from free people. And I love them. They're so comfortable and they're kind of baggy. Those with the hoodie is my favorite outfit.

[Rebecca Ford]

Okay, what is the Post Hacks plan?

[Jean Smart]

Well, what I'm really excited about, actually, is putting on my producer hat.

[Podcast Host 1]

Okay.

[Jean Smart]

I have actually, I formed a company about five years ago with a friend of mine who was brilliant, and it's called Smart Angel Entertainment. And we have about six.

[Rebecca Ford]

Is their last name angel or are you just both Angels?

[Jean Smart]

Her name is Angeliki. Okay. She's great. And so I call her angel because Angeliki means little angel.

[Rajika Seth]

Okay.

[Jean Smart]

And so, yeah, it's the combination of our names. We haven't come up with our logo specifically yet, but I feel like there's

[Rebecca Ford]

creative things that can be done with a smart angel.

[Jean Smart]

Submit all your suggestions, Angels and glasses. But, yeah, we do have several things in the works, and one that we're really excited about is based on a book that a doctor wrote about being a volunteer surgeon in Iraq. Okay. And it's called Paradise General. And it's MASH redux. I mean, it's amazing.

[Rebecca Ford]

Well, we're all obsessed with the pit, so I think there's definitely an appetite.

[Jean Smart]

Oh, absolutely. For that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Rebecca Ford]

You're based in la. Where's the next place you're traveling? Are you doing any big trips?

[Jean Smart]

I'm actually going to a friend's wedding with my two boys in July. I'm really excited.

[Rebecca Ford]

Where's that?

[Jean Smart]

Italy.

[Rebecca Ford]

Wonderful.

[Jean Smart]

That's fantastic.

[Rebecca Ford]

Is there a dress code that you have to work for?

[Jean Smart]

Unfortunately, it's formal. Yes. Which means another entire suitcase just for our wedding clothes. Thank you very much. It's gonna be hot as heck. And then I'm hoping we can go to Dublin to see some friends on that trip and maybe London. And Lovely.

[Rebecca Ford]

You have been single parenting for a few years. You have one son who's still a teenager.

[Jean Smart]

Five years. Yeah, five.

[Rebecca Ford]

What lessons have you learned from that?

[Jean Smart]

Well, and I mean this. I absolutely mean this sincerely, 100% is that it's really the hardest thing I've ever done. And it's. My hat is off to any single working mom. I don't know how they do it, most of them, because, I mean, I have support and resources that most women don't have. And I just find it mind boggling how many women are juggling that. And I just. It's amazing.

[Rebecca Ford]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

But I mean, I have two incredible kids who are respectful and affectionate and smart, and I'm eternally grateful for them.

[Rebecca Ford]

What's a typical weekend? I know that one of your sons is much older, but one is still a teenager.

[Jean Smart]

Are you.

[Rebecca Ford]

What does he like to do? What do you guys like to do together?

[Jean Smart]

Well, when he was younger, we used to go to garage sales all the time, but he's way over that.

[Rebecca Ford]

No. Antiques Roadshow.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. Yeah, but. And more and more, of course, he likes to spend time with his friends, which I. Which I'm glad. But at the same time, it's sort of like, oh. Cause he's going off to college this fall, so.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, wow.

[Jean Smart]

So I'm treasuring every. Every minute.

[Rebecca Ford]

What is the Mother's Day plan? What do you typically do for Mother's Day?

[Jean Smart]

We just go out for lunch or dinner. You know, last year we decided to go up to Ojai.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, that's nice.

[Jean Smart]

And just have lunch. And it was a beautiful day. It was just fun to walk around Ojai.

[Rebecca Ford]

I love that. Yeah, People love Ojai. I feel like it's having a big moment. Yeah. Tell me about Foxy and Bailey, because we're big dog fans.

[Jean Smart]

Aw. Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

At Vogue. And I want to know if they make it easier to parent or harder because we have a very demanding dog who is very much like the third child in our household.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah. Yeah. I just came home the other night to diarrhea on my Persian rug. And it's always, like, about 10 inches away from the tile, but you couldn't make it to the tile. Really? Really. It's always the rug. And I mean always the rug. Not even the wood floor. No, it's never the tile or the wood. It's always the rug.

[Rebecca Ford]

This is true with My mother's dog, Bruce, also.

[Jean Smart]

What is that? Does it feel more like grass or dirt or something? Feels more natural. Well, both of ours are rescues, and one's an Australian shepherd mix, and one is a Great Pyrenees Golden Retriever mix.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, wow.

[Jean Smart]

He's huge. And he's beautiful.

[Rebecca Ford]

How much does he weigh?

[Jean Smart]

He's about £90.

[Rebecca Ford]

Wow.

[Jean Smart]

Amazing. Oh, he's the sweetest, mellowest thing. After our other elderly girl dog passed, we got him. And I said, it's gotta be a male because the two females together was troublesome. And he's gotta be willing to be the beta dog, not the alpha. And he's gotta be easygoing. And.

[Rebecca Ford]

And is he?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, yes, the sweetest. And she. Sometimes I tell him I just wish he'd kick her ass just once. But no, he just lets her do anything.

[Rebecca Ford]

What movies have you seen recently that you've loved?

[Jean Smart]

Oh, well, it's not real recent, but the one I saw recently, this blew me away, was the one that Bradley Cooper did about Maestro. Yeah, Maestro. That I thought was a work of art. I would kill to work with Bradley as a director. I mean, he just. Oh, and I just saw his newest movie, which I also really like.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, yes, Very good.

[Rajika Seth]

Yeah.

[Jean Smart]

Is this thing on? What I love about his directing, and I wish more directors would do this, is he's not afraid of taking pauses as long as he's earned them and they're filled by the actors and everything. It's so. It instantly makes a movie so much more real. Makes the characters seem so much more real. And he's not afraid to take really long pauses sometimes. And they're always correct.

[Rebecca Ford]

I hear that you're a big Harry Styles fan.

[Jean Smart]

I am.

[Rebecca Ford]

He has his new tour, but I think he's gonna be at Madison Square Garden for a long chunk of time. And I'm wondering if you're gonna make

[Jean Smart]

I Live Vic Vicariously too.

[Rebecca Ford]

Exactly. Maybe he bribed someone.

[Jean Smart]

I mean, I feel silly cause I've never met the man, but I found out he was a big fan of hacks and.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, how fun.

[Jean Smart]

And he. After he started watching the show, he sent me a bouquet of flowers.

[Rebecca Ford]

What kind?

[Jean Smart]

With an antique salt shaker? No, like Deborah collects.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, my God.

[Jean Smart]

And a couple tickets to his show. Yeah.

[Rebecca Ford]

Swoon.

[Jean Smart]

And then we found out that he. He doesn't do it anymore, obviously. They found out that he used to check into hotels under D. Vance.

[Christian Allaire]

Wow.

[Jean Smart]

On the 13th floor.

[Rebecca Ford]

Oh, my God.

[Jean Smart]

Well, that.

[Rebecca Ford]

That's an homage.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes.

[Rebecca Ford]

If ever I' heard one.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes.

[Rebecca Ford]

Jean, thank you so much for coming on the run through. It's been such a treat.

[Jean Smart]

Thanks for inviting me.

[Rebecca Ford]

We're all so excited about season five, but also very sad.

[Jean Smart]

Yeah, no, it is. It's very bittersweet. Very, very bitter. Bittersweet.

[Rebecca Ford]

All right, that's it for the show.

[Choma Nardi]

The run through with Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma and Alexander John Burns with help from Emily Elias. The show is engineered by Bran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman.

[Jean Smart]

Bye. Comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical. Insightful, Profound. Wide ranging.

[Rebecca Ford]

Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

[Jean Smart]

I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of

[Rebecca Ford]

what's happening in this chaotic world.

[Jean Smart]

I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts. Thoughtful, exquisite, just, you know, real.

[Rajika Seth]

From prx.