Margot Robbie and Jacqueline Durran Break Down The Costumes In Wuthering Heights

Summary

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The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Margot Robbie and Jacqueline Durran Break Down The Costumes in Wuthering Heights

Date: February 3, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle, Radhika Seth
Guests: Margot Robbie (star, producer), Jacqueline Durran (costume designer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the making of Emerald Fennell’s highly-anticipated adaptation of Wuthering Heights, centering on the creative process behind the film’s striking costumes and vision. Vogue’s Chloe Malle and Radhika Seth speak in-depth with Margot Robbie (leading actress and producer) and Oscar-winning costume designer Jacqueline Durran. The conversation uncovers the collaborative journey, unexpected inspirations, and boundary-pushing choices that shaped the film’s unique take on a literary classic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unique Vibe and Reception of Wuthering Heights

• Event Film Status:
  • Radhika Seth describes it as “camp, it’s funny, it looks stunning. The sets are incredible. …It’s like a film you want to eat.” (04:21)
  • The film draws on the legacy of melodramas; Seth likens its aesthetic and emotional excess to classic ’50s melodrama (“should be studied for its over-the-top, gloriousness.”) (04:54)
• Premiere Audience Reactions:
  • Margot Robbie notes that men were especially eager to discuss the “aesthetically cinematic,” “funny," and “strange” nature of the film, which defied their expectations of a “big, sweeping romantic epic.” (06:08)
  • The premiere had moments of spontaneous audience applause, particularly during sensual or “bizarre” scenes.
  • Notable Moment:
    • “The biggest first clap happened when Heathcliff puts her fingers to his mouth... All the women in the audience, I feel like they were saying, like, ‘take note, men.’” – Margot Robbie (07:20)

2. Comparing the Press Tour to Barbie

• Energy and 'Buzz':
  • Margot says the excitement surrounding Wuthering Heights reminds her of the “wholesome” energy pre-Barbie release, despite “steamy, provocative elements.” (08:06)

3. Family-Friendliness vs. Intimacy

• Surprising Intimacy:
  • The film is R-rated, but Margot observes, “There’s no nudity other than Jacob not having a shirt on… No swearing and no violence. …It feels so thrilling and at times like I shouldn’t as an audience member be privy to this moment—it’s so intimate.” (09:03)

4. Fashion Moments: Red Carpet Meets On-Screen

• Schiaparelli Couture Premiere Dress:
  • Margot’s stylist, Andrew Mukamal, custom-designed a dress inspired by the movie’s signature red lacquered floor.
    • “Andrew wanted it to feel like it was kind of soaking up the floor and almost absorbing it into the dress…” (10:29)
  • The dress’s ombre effect and layered materials mirrored the film’s lush production design.
  • Easter Egg: Necklace once owned by Elizabeth Taylor.
• Dallara Snakeskin Corset:
  • Outfit referenced the film’s line: “I’d rather be hugged by a snake.” (13:10)
  • Matching between Dallara and Wuthering Heights described as “a match made in heaven.” (13:13)
• Press Tour as Extended Storytelling:
  • Margot and Andrew keep an eye on couture collections, seeking new elements that fit the evolving narrative.

5. Assembling a Dream Team

• Intentional Collaborations:
  • Margot details Emerald Fennell’s “very intentional” choices: Charli XCX for music, Susie Davis for sets, Jacqueline Durran for costumes.
    • On set design: “We needed to create sets where real livestock could be in there… It’s like stepping into Oz and Technicolor.” (14:17)
    • Over 1000 real roses for a “wall of scent” (15:48)

6. Casting Dynamics

• Jacob Elordi Cast First:
  • “Jacob was the very first casting piece. …He looked like the illustration of Heathcliff on the cover of the book that [Emerald] read when she was 14.” – Margot Robbie (16:05)
• Robbie on Her Own Casting:
  • Margot read the script before reading the novel, choosing not to bring preconceived notions to her performance. (17:32)

7. Artistic Discovery & Acting Process

• Finding ‘Kathy’:
  • Margot candidly shares self-doubt: “It took me a couple of weeks before I feel like I really found her. I kept turning to Emerald after every take and being like, ‘I don’t think I have her!’” (19:02)
  • Emerald’s direction: “Kathy is only ever in the room that she’s in…She’s so extremely present. I just need you to be present.” (19:38)

8. On-Screen and Off-Screen Chemistry

• Margot & Jacob’s Gifts:
  • Margot gave Jacob a book of poetry, roses, and a retro gas lamp. Jacob (in character as Heathcliff) wrote her notes, made a clay tombstone, and brought Australian snacks. (21:03)

9. Is This a Love Story?

• Multiple Interpretations:
  • Margot: “It always was a love story… Love can lead to jealousy, anger, revenge… It’s not possible to reach that level if you didn’t love so deeply to begin with. …It is a love story, a very tragic one.” (22:02)

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Costume Design Deep Dive with Jacqueline Durran

10. Emerald Fennell’s Vision: Rethinking Period Costuming

• Jacqueline recounts her first meeting: “I took all these things that I thought would be Wuthering Heights related... then realizing that everything I brought was wrong… You just need to come at it with a clear mind and be ready to take on Emerald’s vision.” (25:07)

11. The “Inch” – The Delicate Aesthetic Balance

• Collaborative Fittings:
  • Margot: “We did so many fittings… squeal-inducing! …Kathy pretty much only wears red, black and white… over 50 costumes.” (26:05)
  • Constantly calibrated the visual tone with other departments (“the inch”) so it was neither too much nor too restrained. (28:14)
• Emerald’s Maximalism:
  • “Almost every time we thought we were being crazy and too much, then she’d be like ‘I think we should just add…’ and decorate me like a Christmas tree.” – Margot Robbie (29:28)

12. Logistical Challenges & Iconic Pieces

• Corset Strength:
  • The “picking up by corset strings” scene required a specially made leather corset for functionality and visual effect. (29:52)
• ‘Nude Dress’ Difficulties:
  • Layered tulle dress for moor-running scenes soaked up water and brambles:
  • “I carried half the moors in that dress.” – Margot Robbie (31:50)
  • Had to be repeatedly trimmed with a pocket knife after takes. (39:14)

13. Favorite and Most Researched Looks

• Jacqueline’s Favorite:
  • “The costume on the swing…It comes from a Winterhalter painting of a Swiss peasant… Velvet bodice, white blouse, chains, black skirt.” (32:49)
  • Margot: “We were so fascinated by this same outfit being recreated or repainted by various painters… Was she the original Kim Kardashian?” (33:48)
• Imagined History:
  • Costumes blend historical silhouettes with modern fabrics—“not quite a period film”—anchored by childlike invention and maximalism. (37:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s camp, it’s funny, it looks stunning. … a film I wanted to eat.” —Radhika Seth (04:21)
• “I didn’t realize it was going to be as strange as it is… There’s so many layers to the film…” —Margot Robbie (06:08)
• “It’s not possible to reach that level if you didn’t love so extremely deeply to begin with. …It is a love story, a very tragic one.” —Margot Robbie (22:02)
• “You just need to come at it with a clear mind and be ready to take on Emerald’s vision…” —Jacqueline Durran (25:22)
• “We were all so giddy about it… Squeal inducing!” —Margot Robbie on fittings (26:05)
• “Almost every time we thought we were being crazy and too much, then she’d be like ‘I think we should just add…’” —Margot Robbie (29:28)
• “I carried half the moors in that dress.” —Margot Robbie on the tulle dress (31:50)
• “It’s going to be like a 50s soundstage musical.” —Emerald Fennell, paraphrased by Margot Robbie (37:03)
• “We could never decide it in the fitting room before you got to set; we always had to bring a tray [of jewels]…” —Jacqueline Durran (36:45)
• “We had to keep cutting it with, like, a pocket knife…” —Margot Robbie on the ‘nude dress’ (39:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Film Overview & Reception: 04:21–07:49
• Costume Design Process: 25:07–28:14
• Red Carpet / Fashion Choices: 09:52–13:13
• Favorite Looks and Historical Reference: 32:49–34:19
• Logistical Challenges of Costumes: 29:52–32:04
• Not a Typical Period Film: 37:03–38:00
• Final Thoughts, Book Recommendations: 34:19–35:30

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a fascinating look at the artistic and practical collaboration that brought Fennell’s Wuthering Heights to life. Margot Robbie gives listeners a candid, funny, and thoughtful perspective on acting, producing, and fashioning a new classic. Jacqueline Durran’s insights reveal the painstaking detail and daring creativity behind every layered tulle and velvet look on screen. The film, like this conversation, is maximalist, intimate, and dazzling in every detail.

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Transcript

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[Chloe Mel]

This is the Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel and I'm joined today by the fabulous Radhika Seth. Can you introduce yourself, please?

[Margot Robbie]

Radhika?

[Radhika Seth]

Yes. Hello, I'm Radhika Seth. I'm British vo's film and culture editor. And it's so nice to be back.

[Ad Host 1]

On the Run through.

[Chloe Mel]

I know. I feel like we usually only get the pleasure of Radhika's company when she's reporting live from the sort of weird press lounge at the Cannes Film Festival.

[Radhika Seth]

Always with terrible wi fi. Sorry.

[Chloe Mel]

But today we had such a wonderful time talking to two very impressive women, Margot Robbie and Jacqueline Duran. They both worked on a film that everyone at the Vogue office is very excited about. Wuthering Heights, directed by Emerald Fennell. Margot plays Catherine Earnshaw, the star crossed lover of Heathcliff, played by Jacob Elordi. And Jacqueline designed the spectacular costumes. I have to say, I've been a longtime Jacqueline fangirl. I think she is just so spectacular at what she does. From Little Women to Atonement to Anna Karenina and Barbie. I mean, she really can sort of do it all.

[Radhika Seth]

She's just a genius. She's just such a genius.

[Chloe Mel]

Rad, you wrote the amazing profile of Margot for British Vogue's. Was it the January cover?

[Radhika Seth]

January cover, that's right.

[Chloe Mel]

I have not seen the film yet. I'm seeing it next week at a screening. But you saw the movie. You interviewed Margot. You also spoke to Jacqueline. Give us an elevator line review of the movie and what people should be excited about.

[Radhika Seth]

I feel like this film has been really promoted as an event film and that is what it is. Like, it's camp, it's funny, it looks stunning. The sets are incredible. And it's like, I think I've heard it described maybe by Emerald as I think she wanted to make something like a film that you wanted to eat. And this is really a film I wanted to eat and I've seen it once, but I'll be eating it many more times. I think I'm going to say it again at least twice.

[Chloe Mel]

I was thinking it's been a few years since they announced this and I feel like even back then I was like, ugh, this is going to be great.

[Radhika Seth]

Here in London, the BFI did like a season quite recently called, like, Too Much. And it was about, like, incredible melodramas from the 50s. And I feel like this is a film I Can see programmed in something like that in the future. I feel like it should be, like, studied for its over the top, like, gloriousness.

[Chloe Mel]

Yeah.

[Radhika Seth]

And it's really exciting to see something like that in a cinema with people. It's just like what you want from the cinema now, I think.

[Chloe Mel]

Yes. Everyone just has to wait. The movie is out February 13th, conveniently timed to Spooky Friday the 13th and Romantic Valentine's Day. Without further ado, here is Margot Robbie and Jacqueline Duran. Hi, Margot. How are you?

[Margot Robbie]

How are you?

[Ad Host 1]

Good.

[Radhika Seth]

So nice to see you.

[Margot Robbie]

I didn't know you were going to be doing this.

[Radhika Seth]

Yeah, nice to catch up again. Can't wait for people to actually see this film. Like, everyone to have seen it.

[Margot Robbie]

I. Me too. It's.

[Jacqueline Duran]

It's.

[Margot Robbie]

Last night we had the, the, you know, the world premiere and so it feels like it's now finally out in the world. It feels like this is. And, and getting, like, everyone's reactions. Last night it was, It's. Yeah, this is very.

[Chloe Mel]

What were the reactions like last night? What were the weirdest reactions and the best reactions?

[Margot Robbie]

I was surprised at how many dudes wanted to, like, really talk. And like, some were friends of mine sort of thing. Not, not, not in like a. Oh, they're having like an existential cris he for my Edgar to my wife or girlfriend or whatever. But, like, a lot of people, like, I didn't realize this was going to be so, like, aesthetically cinematic. I didn't realize it was going to be funny. Didn't realize it was going to be as strange as it is, those kind of things. I think people are hearing the message, you know, through the marketing that it's like big, sweeping romantic epic, which it is, and I think we want to be leading with that. But people are now seeing it and being like, oh, it's actually funny as well. And it's kind of like bizarre, unexpected. Yeah, there's. These are like the. There's so many layers to the film that you're just not gonna. Really. Yeah. You're not gonna realize, I think, until you see it. So. It's been fun. It was really fun hearing people's reactions last night and also just hearing like the in the moment reactions in the cinema, like hearing everyone gasp when people would clap. There was clapping throughout the film, really.

[Chloe Mel]

Any unexpected clapping or laughing at places you didn't think.

[Margot Robbie]

The biggest first clap happened when Heathcliff puts her fingers to his mouth and she's. No, don't. And he's like. He puts his fingers to, like, Smells her fingers and then puts them in his mouth. That all the women in the audience, I feel like they were saying, like, take note, men.

[Chloe Mel]

Margo. I realized that we jumped right in. I didn't welcome you to the pod again because the last time have we actually started.

[Margot Robbie]

This isn't preamble chitchat. We're in.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, we're in. We're fully in.

[Margot Robbie]

We're in.

[Ad Host 1]

We're in.

[Chloe Mel]

And we are so excited. And Choma and I were just laughing that I feel like it was a lifetime ago that you were doing the Barbie press tour because it just also feels so tonally different than this tour.

[Jacqueline Duran]

It does.

[Margot Robbie]

But at the same time, I haven't, you know, since then felt this, this like buzzy feeling out in the world. The way it felt right before Barbie hit the cinemas. There was this energy around where people just really, really wanted the film in a wholesome way. And I'm feeling that again. And yeah, it's been really nice. Emerald and I were just on the phone before and we were both like, isn't it weird that this feeling right now feels so wholesome? Like considering our movie does have steamy sort of provocative elements.

[Ad Host 2]

It's true.

[Chloe Mel]

It's where we're having, you know, we've chosen Wuthering Heights as our first book club pick for our first Vogue book club. And we're doing. I'm interviewing Emer next weekend. We're doing a screening and it'll be on the 8th. And the number of people who have emailed me saying, I want to come, I want to bring my teenage daughter. We want to come together. Families want to come together. I'm like, this is not a family film, people. But it's very charming, funny.

[Margot Robbie]

I mean, I know it's funny because it is an R rated film, but there's no nudity other than Jacob not having a shirt on. So I'm classify that as nudity. So there's no nudity, there's no swearing and there's no violence. So in a way it feels so thrilling and it feels at times like I shouldn't as an audience member be privy to this moment. Like, this feels so intimate that I shouldn't be allowed to be witnessing it. And it's so thrilling to be in that position. I think as an audience member of like, oh my God, I'm really seeing behind the curtain of this relationship right now. And like, I don't know if I should be seeing all this. It's those kind of gestures that get the biggest reaction in Our film. And it's not really like, it's not the typical shock value, like, whoa. That you might see in another film.

[Chloe Mel]

I want to hear about last night's dress because I have some logistical questions, but I also. It was so spectacular. It was this Schiaparelli couture, fresh off the Runway. It had a velvet pedal train, a sort of classic, you know, mid century couture type train. On the Runway, though the train was blue. Last night it was red. I want to know how that magic happened. Did Andrew McAmel, who. I know your stylist, how did he conjure that? It's like in wizard of Oz where they change the colors of things.

[Margot Robbie]

Andrew, who, by the way, is not only a brilliant stylist, but he's a history major. So he really, you know, when we do these press tours, you know, he really, really does his research. And he, you know, I was wearing Elizabeth Taylor's necklace, which is a lot of amazing romantic history linked into it. So he likes to kind of go deep and find meaning and be able to really tell a story in the outfits, which I love and appreciate so much. But to go back to the Schiaparelli. So it was a custom Schiaparelli couture gown, and the intention was like, how do you make a dress look like Wuthering Heights? And so knowing that in the film, we have this red lacquered floor in one of our biggest sets, we knew that they were going to have either a red carpet, but we were hoping they would recreate the red lacquered floor as our red carpet at the premiere. So Andrew wanted it to feel like it was kind of soaking up the floor and almost absorbing it into the dress, which is the effect that it has. And in the Schiaparelli, you know, that incredible show that we all just saw a couple of days ago, this, like, in a couple of the outfits, you know, a couple of the designs, this ombre sort of effect with layered. Not tool. It's almost like a crepey sort of material, but layered in strips to create this ombre effect of one color kind of melting into the next. So it kind of.

[Chloe Mel]

Yeah, right at the sort of Milfoy.

[Margot Robbie]

Yeah. And it turns into the black velvet and then this lace bodice.

[Radhika Seth]

Margot, I wanted to ask you also about the Dallara snakeskin corset, because I am just obsessed with it. It's so wonderful. But also remember you telling me when we spoke before that you'll keep an eye on the couture shows as they're Happening in case there's things that you and Andrew can kind of pick out. Is there anything that you've seen from that as well that you might have your eye on?

[Margot Robbie]

I mean, it's kind of hard now because we have a lot of things locked in. And now I'm seeing shows and we're like, oh, my gosh. Like, oh, the Schiaparelli show with the bird shoes. Did you guys see that?

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, the bird shoes were insane. We're all talking about that.

[Margot Robbie]

I was just like, wait, do we need to redo our out outfits and age it? There's so many exciting things coming through. And then the Chanel show happened. I mean, it's kind of hard to know what we can incorporate at this last. At this late moment. But knowing Andrew, he'll move mountains to make a fashion moment happen. So I'm here for all of it. But it's so fun doing this kind of press tour where you get to keep telling a story, even at this point in the movie's release.

[Chloe Mel]

I loved when Andrew referenced. There's a great line from the film that is, I'd rather be loved by a snake.

[Jacqueline Duran]

I'd rather be hugged by a snake.

[Chloe Mel]

Hugged by a snake.

[Margot Robbie]

Yes, yes, yes. Sorry to go back to the Dallara outfit. Exactly. That was his idea behind the Dallara snakeskin. He's like, well, now a snake is hugging you. He's also just Dallara and Wuthering Heights. It's just. It's like a match made in heaven. We've got some more Dallara coming up. Don't worry, we've got. We were almost spoiled for choice of the Dallara option. I think maybe the first trailer had come out for our trailer for Wuthering to come out. And she had a show and one of the models had a horse bit like a bridle in her, which is in our movie as well, in a quite exciting scene. So we were just like, oh, it's all meant to be.

[Radhika Seth]

I wanted to ask you a bit about kind of the producing side of it and of course, like, putting this amazing team together with Jacqueline Duran, who we'll speak to in a little bit, and also Susie Davis, who done this amazing work for the sets, and obviously Charli XCX doing the music. And, you know, can you talk to me and talk to both of us about putting that amazing team together with Emerald? I remember you telling me that she knew from very early on that she wanted Charlie to do the music.

[Chloe Mel]

Right.

[Margot Robbie]

Charlie was really the first name she said when talking about the music, Emerald's very intentional. What she did and what she did with the budget. She had to just. The producer and me can't help but be in awe because I was like, this isn't. This is impossible that she's done all this. But what we have. The sets she created were unbelievable and not only astounding to look at, but functional, too. I mean, we have rain machines as every five minutes in this movie. We need to create a drainage systems in studios, and we needed to create sets where real livestock could be in there, horses and pigs and all sorts of things. She had, like I mentioned before, that brutalist sort of architecture. Wuthering Heights, you know, all these elements encroaching into the sets. And then you go to Thrush Cross Grange, and it's like. It's like. Yeah, it's like stepping into Oz and Technicolor. Suddenly, the palette changes completely. You know, the space, there's just so much more space. It's big, cavernous spaces, lacquered floors, real gardens. You know, the landscaping around it was incredible. Thousands of real roses. When you stepped onto set, the smell almost hit you like a wall of roses. It was just incredible. And storytelling throughout and all these, you know, original references from Emerald coming through and whether you get to really get to see it as an audience member a lot, unfortunately, you won't get to see, but the vibe and the feeling is there.

[Chloe Mel]

It's so visually specific and has such a strong point of view, which. As do both of Emerald's other two films, which. I wonder, when you decided, Margo, that you were gonn to play Cathy and did who. What came first? Jacob as Heathcliff or you as Cathy?

[Margot Robbie]

Jacob as Heathcliff. Jacob was the very first casting piece. Emerald said she saw him in Saltburn with. He had, like, sideburns in Saltburn. And it suddenly struck her that he looked like the illustration of Heathcliff on the COVID of the book that she read the Wuthering Heights that she had when she was 14.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, my God.

[Margot Robbie]

I was, you know, on board as a producer and thinking about the film through that lens. But I think a piece of me was. I kept putting myself into, like, the scenes in my head. How would I, Kathy, how would I do that? And so when it came time to kind of figure out the Kathy casting through Caution to the Wind and because Emerald and I were talking about this, it's kind of like. It's kind of like telling your longtime friend that you are actually in love with them and, like, seeing if they love you back. It's like. It's like doing. It's like the equivalent of, like, doing, like, the yawn and putting your arm around them in the center thing. It's like I'm making the move, and if I don't want to make it weird, if she's not into this, like, I hope back to our usual producer, director dynamic and nothing be weird because I said that I would play Kathy, but no pressure. And so, yeah, thank God she felt the same and we lived happily ever after. So, Margot, I can't believe that you.

[Chloe Mel]

Read the script before the book. Was that.

[Margot Robbie]

Yeah, which was brilliant. And when she told us, when Emeril told us while we were making Saltburn, I have a memory of us being on set on Saltburn and her kind of sidling up, being like, I have my next thing in my head. And I was like, great. What is it? And she's like, it's going to be Wuthering Heights. And I was like, great. And knowing that I hadn't read the book because it wasn't on our curriculum in school, for some reason, I thought, okay, either I go and read the book, like, a hundred times right now, or I do not read it at all and do not watch anything and let her version be my very first thing. So that's what I decided to do. I wanted whatever she wanted to do with it to be my first experience with it and not be clouded by any sort of preconceptions or biases that I'd have from reading the book.

[Chloe Mel]

Did you watch any of the other adaptations before?

[Margot Robbie]

I think I'd maybe seen that Laurence Olivier won a long time ago, but not in a way that I could remember it. So even I'm questioning whether I even did see it, because I'm like, surely I would have remembered. But there's something about him standing there in his kind of camp look that made me think, oh, no, that feels familiar. But I don't think I'd even seen them. And then once I had that her vision and her script cemented in my mind, I went and read the book a bunch of times.

[Radhika Seth]

I know in your Vogue Australia cover story, you're saying that you told Jacob that it took you, like, a while to find Kathy and that kind of freaked you out. And I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about that, as if before you played her.

[Margot Robbie]

I know, yeah. It took me a couple weeks before I feel like I really found her. And sometimes that happens to me, at least. And I think it happens to Actors sometimes where you feel like you have the character or you don't. And sometimes it's a couple days in and then you're like, oh, there it is. In this instance, it was a couple weeks in for me. I was starting to really panic. I kept turning to Emerald off every take and being like, I don't think I have her. And she was like, you're doing her. It's perfect. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. But Emerald said to me, I don't want you to think about what you've done in previous scenes. I don't want you to think about the scenes that are coming. Kathy is only ever in the room that she's in. She's only here right now. She does not think of consequences and she does not think of things that have happened before. She's so extremely present. I just need you to be present. And so I just. I tried to do that. And yeah. And then. And then at some point this thing happens where you're suddenly. You're like, oh, I have it. I'm in. And weirdly, the movie starts feeling more real than your real life. And then. Yeah, and then you're like, okay, I'm really lost in it now. Great.

[Chloe Mel]

I love that you guys really inserted yourselves into the characters. I loved reading about that. Jacob got Kathy many roses for Valentine's Day.

[Margot Robbie]

He's getting all this credit. I also gave him roses on Valentine's Day. Thank you very much. And we both kind of forgot. And then afterwards I said to him the next day, I was like, I did get you roses on Valentine's Day. I remember doing it. So I was like. And I gave you a book of poetry, actually. It's got a picture of a little frog on the front and it.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Hello.

[Margot Robbie]

I waved while drowning or something like that. I gave him a lamp, like this gas lamp. It looked very kind of cool and old timey. I got him that. And what else did I give him? I gave him a movie poster. When we wrapped of a movie we both love, you got served. We really bonded over the fact that we both loved that movie so much. Took that as a movie poster.

[Chloe Mel]

What did he give you?

[Margot Robbie]

Well, he did the roses on Valentine's. He wrote like, it was all from Heathcliff. Like he wrote a note from Heathcliff with a line from the film. That's a line from the book. He made this little tombstone thing out of clay. And then he would get snacks, Australian snacks. He got his dad to bring over all my favorite Aussie snacks when his dad came over from back home. So, yeah, clever boy. He quickly realized that the way to my heart is through food.

[Chloe Mel]

I want to know if I just said that. We're starting our book club with Wuthering Heights, and there's been such heated debate in our office about whether or not this is a love story. There are a lot of people reading this for the first time. They think these people are not nice to each other. It's so violent. It feels so punishing. Is this a love story or not? And I wonder, did you ever waver on that?

[Margot Robbie]

It always was a love story. It is a love story to me. I feel like we. Maybe what we associate with love at the moment is just like all the nice, warm, fuzzy feelings. Love has always been the most interesting emotion to me because it can lead to other things, like if left neglected or unrequited or abused or whatever, it can turn into all these dark things. Love can lead to jealousy. Love can lead to anger, revenge. All these toxic things that you see play out in the book and in the film. I mean, it's not possible to reach that level if you didn't love so extremely deeply to begin with. So I. I find love to be a much more interesting emotion than just straightforward hate. You know, hate can only lead to a few emotions. Love can lead to the whole gamut, really. So to me, it is a love story, a very tragic one.

[Chloe Mel]

We're going to take a short, short break. When we come back, we're diving into costumes with the fabulous Jaclyn Duran.

[Margot Robbie]

Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent.

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[Margot Robbie]

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[Chloe Mel]

And we're back. Jacqueline, it's so lovely to meet you. I'm such a longtime fan. I want to hear what the first thing you did when you heard that you were going to be working on this film was.

[Jacqueline Duran]

I think the more interesting thing is going for an interview and taking all these things that I thought would be Wuthering Heights related and sitting in Emerald's office and then just realizing that everything that I brought was wrong.

[Ad Host 2]

Say more.

[Jacqueline Duran]

And it was actually just a disaster. And anyway, it obviously turned around and I understood what she meant. But it goes back to what Margot was saying about how that it's so completely Emerald's vision and that you just need to come at it with a clear mind and just be ready to take on that vision because it's a separate thing. And she does have it all worked.

[Radhika Seth]

Out when it came to the fittings as well. I'd love to hear how that went for both of you together, Margo and Jacqueline, in terms of Margot, how did you react to the clothes when you first saw them? And are there any kind of amazing stories that you can tell us about those early kind of moments of seeing the clothes?

[Margot Robbie]

I mean, we did so many fittings. We did hours and hours and hours, and I loved all of them. It was squeal inducing. We would put things on and have to go parade them out through the workshop because we were all so giddy about it. And I mean, Jacqueline was playing with so many different kinds of fabrics and textures and really so much storytelling through every. I mean, every department did it, but particularly, I think the costumes do a lot of storytelling. We had a very specific palette that we were working within. Kathy pretty much only wears red, black and white, pretty much a few exceptions throughout the film. She also has over 50 costumes and each costume takes, I don't know, Jacqueline, how many hundreds of hours.

[Jacqueline Duran]

It was just so long. And the thing is that it was a kind of spiral. So that at the beginning, we kind of had time, and it took us a bit of time to work out the Wuthering Heights looks. I think I kind of forget that. But the beginning was hard to kind of find the tone of what we were going to be doing and get that kind of balance between, you know, how it looks and how costumey it is and what Emerald's vision is a bit like you trying to find Kathy's character, trying to kind of pin this vision to some place. You know, it's not a date. It's not a site of anywhere. It's just. It's that vision, and it's kind of almost. I felt it was like trying to catch a bubble.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, I love that image.

[Jacqueline Duran]

So, anyway, that was a bit like the beginning for us in. Because it is a fevered state. It is a dream. And just pinning that down in the kind of way of a melodrama is just a very, very fine line to walk. But I just. Margo, I think I have to go back to when you first arrived in London, and I said, I'm really sorry, but there's just so many costume changes. And then all around the office was the whole costume breakdown. And I know, because you know how these things are, that you immediately realized how much that was going to mean for you and how many hours of fittings you were going to have.

[Margot Robbie]

And, I mean, the references, which I could see were from the very first book that Emerald showed me, that the vintage Mugler or McQueen, there'd be a painting from whatever century. I mean, the references were endless and varied. And it was, like Jacqueline said, finding what the tonal space that we were going to work within, and then constantly checking with the other departments, too, to kind of be like, okay, what are you guys doing over here? Like, what? We'd go and check, like, the sets that they were building and just get an idea. We're like, are we going mad? Are we going too crazy here? And just making sure that we were all kind of playing within this tonal space, which we ended up calling the inch, because if you went a little too far, it felt. If you weren't far enough, it didn't feel right either. And, I mean, Emerald would come into these fittings, and I'd say almost every time we thought we were being crazy and too much, and then she'd be like, I think we should just add. And then she'd, like, decorate, like, my Christmas tree and just put, like, giant jewels in my hair or this or that. And, you know, and Sian and Nana from our hair and makeup department would come as well and be like, kind of looking at hairstyles. It was really amazingly collaborative, which, again, doesn't always happen on every film.

[Chloe Mel]

Jacqueline, I wonder if there were any costumes that felt like the most logistically challenging. What I'm thinking of is, I haven't yet seen the film. I'm seeing it on Wednesday. I'm very excited. But I've heard about Jacob picking Margot up by the corset strings. This is loomed large in our office, and I'm wondering, how do you get what strings are supporting a whole woman's body weight?

[Margot Robbie]

The picking up with one hand. That was. Yeah, that was written into the script. And again. Oh, that. What was the woman's name who made the tamsin, who works with leather in such an incredible way. And she made this leather corset with this intricate sort of like tiny leather straps crisscrossing over in the front of the bodice. And that was where Jacob was going to put his, you know, get his fingers between the straps to be able to have the purchase to essentially bicep curl Kathy up to his eye level because he's extremely tall. So that was quite a thrilling costume to imagine. And also. Yeah, quite difficult, practically, but it kind of came together beautifully.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Yeah. Actually, the most difficult one, Margot, was the nude dress.

[Margot Robbie]

Oh, my.

[Jacqueline Duran]

God.

[Chloe Mel]

Because it kept getting dirty or why?

[Jacqueline Duran]

Well, it got invented, really. It had a much longer life than we first thought because it just became the whole dress for running across the moors in the rain.

[Margot Robbie]

It was layers, like, we wanted. What was the original idea? We wanted her to be kind of undressed, dressed. She wouldn't have left the house undressed, obviously. So it ended up being just so many layers of tulle and, like a nude sort of corset underneath and just stockings, but enough tulle to be covered. But then with the rain machines and then taking it out on location, I ended up doing this really long walk up a hill where Jacob's chasing me in the rain, screaming, cathy, Cathy. And she's like, go away, I hate you. And all that. And it was catching every twig and bramble and. And I. I carried half the moors in that dress. It ended up weighing by the end of it.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, my God.

[Margot Robbie]

Soaking up the rain and. And all the moors. I was kind of like, at one with nature and he had to pick me up and I was like, oh, my God, I must wear. I must wear so much right now.

[Chloe Mel]

The run through will be back in a moment.

[Margot Robbie]

You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinary, well informed colleagues at the New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Chloe Mel]

Jaclyn, do you have a favorite outfit from the whole film?

[Jacqueline Duran]

Oh, actually, I do. I do. I do have a favorite, which is the costume on the swing. Weirdly, it's quite accurate to period and it's more or less the right date. It comes from a Winterhalter painting of a Swiss peasant, but. But it turns out that the costume's painted by loads of people across lots of different painters, and it's always pretty much the same. So it's a very specific peasant costume, but it doesn't really look like that. And it's. It has a velvet bodice which is slashed and it has a white blouse underneath it and it has chains hanging from the bodice. And overall, use it well with the black skirt. But the original painting had a white.

[Margot Robbie]

Skirt and those pink roses.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Oh, the pink roses tucked in. That's. Yeah. And that as well is pretty accurate. I know, it's amazing. I loved it. When I saw you swinging on the swing in the costume, I felt like that was one of those moments where you kind of know what you're doing, you know?

[Margot Robbie]

And we were so fascinated by this same outfit being recreated or repainted by various painters, like spanning decades as well. We were like, was, was this was the woman who wore this like the original Kim Kardashian and a bunch of other women then saw it and were like, I want that dress and I want to be painted in it too, because it's kind of unusual for the same outfit to be painted with different people wearing it spanning a section of time. It was. Yeah, it was like. It was like it was a trend or something.

[Chloe Mel]

I'm curious. I loved that. Clearly Wuthering Heights had such a profound impact on 14 year old emerald, and that is one of the reasons why we're here today. What book Margot had a similar impact on you when you were a teenager?

[Margot Robbie]

Oh, gosh, a lot. I read a lot. I mean, the Hobbit was the very first book I read when I was 8, I think, and that kind of got me into reading Harry Potter, was. I was, you know, extremely obsessed with Harry Potter. I read a lot, though. Like, I remember reading the Gossip Girl books before, long before that was a TV Show. Look, not the classics. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna sit here and lie. It wasn't all Jane Austen or whatever it was. It was. Whatever, whatever. We was kind of popular with the girls at school, and I still read a lot now. I'm very much a Romantasy girly, so I read a lot of.

[Chloe Mel]

Oh, what are you reading right now?

[Margot Robbie]

At the moment? I'm reading Quicksilver.

[Chloe Mel]

I don't know about that.

[Margot Robbie]

It's kind of. It's. You know, I've read Acotar three times through. I've read Throne of Glass two times through. I'm about to start my third after Quicksilver. Fourth wing, obviously. I mean. Yeah. So if anyone's got any more suggestions, if I'm giving you an idea of my taste, then shout them out to me.

[Chloe Mel]

Jacqueline, did you have a hand in helping Margo with the signet rings that she gave to Jacob?

[Margot Robbie]

Oh, no, Andrew. Andrew did that. You know that designer Cece?

[Jacqueline Duran]

I do. And in fact, we looked at those during the Heights, but it was a totally separate thing and it didn't work out. It wasn't quite the thing I needed, but it was. Yeah. I think there's lovely Margot.

[Margot Robbie]

Oh, that's so funny that you looked.

[Jacqueline Duran]

At that as well.

[Margot Robbie]

Yeah. Because there's so much. Like, you can put so much detail and insignia into it and paint it into, like, with enamel or put in stones that represent something. So, yeah. Andrew had the great idea of, like, let's make a Cathy Heathcliff ring. And I was like, well, we have to make one for Jacob as well, obviously.

[Chloe Mel]

They're so spooky. They have sort of embracing skeletons on them. And what is the quote? It says, oh, yes. Whatever our souls.

[Margot Robbie]

Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Famous line from the book. And in the movie as well, of course. Yeah. There's a lot of great jewelry in the movie, though. We wore a lot of vintage. We had a lot of vintage Chanel pieces, and we would stitch it into my hair, onto the front of clothes. Big necklaces. Yeah. We wanted lots of jewels.

[Jacqueline Duran]

And do you remember that Emerald loved the jewels so much that we always had to. We could never decide it. In the fitting room before you got to set, we always had to bring a tray. So this huge tray of jewels would come, and then, like, Emma would be staggering out with these jewels and anyway. And Emerald would always want to add the last thing. She always wanted one more.

[Margot Robbie]

She'd be like, I think we need tiara. I think we need. And we like. Do you like the earrings or the necklace? She'd be like, both. Of course. It was always is more, but there was always heightened about all of this. I mean, one of the first things Emerald said was, it's going to be like a 50s soundstage musical. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, when Emerald read the book when she was 14, she didn't know what was period correct. You're imagining a version of that time. But then it was kind of our prerogative to imagine, too. Yeah, this. Create this kind of imagined version. So it's not quite a period film. It's definitely not a period correct film, but it's. And it feels modern. Often we're using kind of period correct silhouettes, but with modern fabrics or vice versa. It's, you know, not just in the costume department, but production design and so on.

[Radhika Seth]

I wanted to ask you both as well, because I think since seeing the film, I feel like it's going to be such a cult Christmas movie. And I'm not sure if I'm alone in feeling this way, but I think it's the snow, it's the drama, it's the incredible costumes. I know I'll be rewatching it at Christmas.

[Margot Robbie]

There is a Christmas montage.

[Radhika Seth]

So there is a Christmas scene.

[Ad Host 1]

Yeah.

[Margot Robbie]

And it's like, you know what? Little Women, which Jacqueline also designed the costumes for, that's always my Christmas movie. I always watch Little Women at Christmas. Greta Gerwig and Jacqueline's Little Women.

[Radhika Seth]

Mine too. It's like my favorite Christmas movie.

[Margot Robbie]

Yeah, it's definitely a Valentine's movie, but I think once you see it, then, yeah, maybe you'll start being like, oh, no, this is actually a Christmas movie. Sure.

[Chloe Mel]

Well, I know we have to let you both go, but thank you so, so much for joining, especially the day after. A big. A big night. And I'm very excited for Valentine's Day.

[Margot Robbie]

I'm excited to see the movie. I hope you enjoy it.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Me too.

[Margot Robbie]

Now you know a little bit more about how much went into, particularly the costumes. It will be even more exciting to see.

[Chloe Mel]

And I can't wait to see that tulle dress carrying all the moors.

[Margot Robbie]

We had to keep cutting it with, like, a pocket knife, you know. Oh, my God. As we would go for another, we just, like, cut a piece of it off and go again. Hilarious. Well, thank you, ladies.

[Ad Host 1]

All right.

[Radhika Seth]

Thank you so much.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Thank you.

[Ad Host 1]

Bye bye.

[Jacqueline Duran]

Bye bye.

[Chloe Mel]

The run through with vogue is produced by chelsea daniel, alex depalma and catherine milsop. It's engineered by pran bandy and james yost. It is mixed by mike kutchman.

[Wired Podcast Host]

Wired has always put a microscope on the people, power and forces shaping our world. Uncanny Valley brings us that same fearless reporting straight to your feed. Is Doge finally over? Will AI actually democratize American healthcare? Each week, Wired journalists from across the newsroom are going to unpack where politics, technology and Silicon Valley collide. From conversations with tech leaders across Silicon Valley, Internet fandom investigations, and government crackdowns on rigged gambling, we're taking you all over the news cycle, going straight inside the priorities, pressures and power plays driving today's biggest decisions. Uncanny Valley tackles the questions keeping you up at night and helps make sense of the future taking shape right now. Listen to new episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Radhika Seth]

From prx.