Mother’s Day Special With Candice Bergen

Summary

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The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Mother’s Day Special With Candice Bergen

Released: May 7, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle, Marlee Marius, Taylor Antrim
Special Guest: Candice Bergen

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Episode Overview

This Mother’s Day special features a heartfelt and witty conversation between Vogue’s Chloe Malle and her legendary mother, Candice Bergen. The episode explores generational perspectives on motherhood, careers in media and fashion, personal memories, and the sometimes surreal backstage of the worlds they inhabit. Lightly recapping Met Gala mayhem, Tony nominations, and fashion-world buzz, the episode shifts focus to a delightful, deeply personal exchange between Chloe and Candice—highlighting lessons learned, humorous family lore, and the meaning of female power over eight decades.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Post-Met Gala Reflections & Vogue’s Busy Week

(01:46 – 22:53)

• War Room Tales & Press Room Realities:

  • Vogue staff recount the intense logistics of Met Gala coverage: pre-writing 70+ stories, constantly adapting to last-minute changes, and the infamous basement “snack” table.
  • “People should understand that if they want to eat at the Met Gala, you gotta be in the basement. Honestly, there is an abundance of food. I couldn't believe it.” — Taylor Antrim [04:12]

• Behind the Scenes & Red Carpet Moments:

  • Field interviews with celebrities (e.g., Troye Sivan in Prada, Alexa Chung, Odessa A’zion in Valentino) and writers about their looks and the energy of the night.
  • “How are you breathing?” — Chelsea Daniel to Odessa A’zion about the strictness of her corset. [11:38]

• The After Party Circuit:

  • Recap of Met after parties and shout-out to Eileen Kelly’s franchise story: “By trying to go to all the parties, you get to some of them way too early…Being the only one there…” — Taylor Antrim [16:43]

• Pre-Met Events & Tony Nominations:

  • Pre-parties at Madame Tussauds and Vogue Café, notable Tony nominees for shows featured in Vogue, and anticipation for the upcoming Cannes Film Festival.
  • “This season has been really fun and a really wide range of entertainments. Every kind of theatergoer has something to be excited about.” — Marlee Marius [18:06]

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2. Cannes Film Festival & Upcoming Fashion Shows

(19:39 – 22:50)

• Discussion around anticipated films at Cannes and predictions for red carpet trends.

• “I’m excited about ‘Fjord’... It’s very art house this year. There’s nary a blockbuster in sight.” — Taylor Antrim [19:54]

• Chloe shares her excitement for LA events and upcoming Dior and Gucci cruise shows, plus a note on traveling without her kids.

  • “I love just sort of bopping around LA. Obviously, I grew up there, and so did my mother.” — Chloe Malle [22:18]

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3. Mother’s Day Conversation: Chloe Malle and Candice Bergen

(25:25 – 69:34)

Reflections on Turning 80 and Generational Change

• Candice’s take on aging:
  • “Turning 80 isn’t what it used to be…because we’ve given life extensions to these major birthdays that used to mean…well, really, when I was in school, turning 30 was like the end of your life.” — Candice Bergen [26:36]

Mother’s Day Traditions and Memories

• Chloe and Candice discuss simple family celebrations, prioritizing time together, and gratitude for grandchildren.
  • “Frankly, just being in the country with you and my grandkids…” — Candice Bergen [29:52]
  • “I never would have asked you to have kids, but I was so grateful that you did.” — Candice Bergen [30:03]

Career, Modeling, and the Power Shift for Women

• The shifting significance of age, motherhood, and female power in society, referencing Greta Gerwig, Anna Wintour, and Meryl Streep.
• Candice’s early Vogue covers and experience modeling for major photographers:
  • “My friend, Mary Ellen Mark, who is no longer with us, but who was a great photojournalist…taught me how to print.” — Candice Bergen [34:03]

Photojournalism, Adventure, and Famous Encounters

• Stories of assignments with Jane Goodall (and baboon-related morning drama), sparring with Irving Penn, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes from TV and film sets.

  • “The baboons would come in the morning and rattle the door to get to the bananas…I opened the door a crack and threw the bananas down the beach…” — Candice Bergen [35:50]

• Candice’s brushes with luminaries:

  • Oscar de la Renta, Ralph Lauren, Versace (who sent a Christmas cactus when Chloe was born), and less successful shoots with Irving Penn.

Parenting, Fame, Work-Life Balance

• Candice recalls her strict but loving parenting, managing her schedule as a working mom on Murphy Brown, and intentionally keeping Chloe from the spotlight as a child:

  • “I would be there every morning at 9:30 after I took you to school…And then I would be home by 5:30, maybe 6. Except for Thursday and Friday nights.” — Candice Bergen [52:06]

• Chloe describes the challenge of balancing work and motherhood:

  • “I try to have my phone in a different room for an hour of bedtime, but it’s hard.” — Chloe Malle [54:12]

Stories from a Storied Life

• Candice’s first time at Disneyland was at the grand opening, accompanied by “Uncle Walt” (Disney himself).
• Memories range from growing up in old-school Beverly Hills, to wild Studio 54 nights (“I was overwhelmed.” — Candice [33:39]), to political protests (her arrest for protesting the Vietnam war, alongside Teri Garr), to beloved Murphy Brown cast traditions.

Rapid Fire “How Well Do We Know Each Other” Game

• Chloe quizzing Candice on family trivia and favorite things, from first jobs to best vacations:

  • “What is my favorite gift you’ve ever given me?” — Chloe Malle [67:40]
  • “That bracelet with all your nicknames engraved in it.” — Candice Bergen

• Some comic misfires, as Candice struggles with the rules or drifts into anecdotes.

Closing Reflections

• Candice’s favorite part of being a grandmother:

  • “I just love those two kids. I love getting to re-experience the joys of all that.” [56:00]

• On changes in parenting philosophies:

  • “I think that it sort of veered away from the strictness, and now it’s come back to it.” [56:33]

• Both end with thanks and playful banter about their grandparent nicknames.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On age and power:
  “Turning 80 isn’t what it used to be…we’ve given life extensions to these major birthdays that used to mean—well, really, when I was in school, turning 30 was like the end of your life.”
  — Candice Bergen [26:36]

• On the gift of grandchildren:
  “That was your biggest gift. I just love those two kids. I love them to death.”
  — Candice Bergen [56:00]

• On career pivots:
  “I wasn’t good enough to keep doing [photojournalism] at the level I wanted to do it, but I loved when I was doing it.”
  — Candice Bergen [38:45]

• On strict parenting:
  “Other parents don’t do that, and other parents don’t make their kids come home that early. And I said: well, that’s what you’re stuck with. Lovely.”
  — Candice Bergen [56:49]

• On being kept away from Hollywood premieres as a kid:
  “I did. Yes, I did. And I stand behind it.”
  — Candice Bergen [61:56]

• On “failing” a photoshoot:
  “I was booked to be photographed by Irving Penn, and he said, I can’t work with her, and he released me…she’s not giving me anything.”
  — Candice Bergen [63:53]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:46] – Vogue team Met Gala debrief, behind-the-scenes chaos
• [09:53] – Red carpet interviews: Troye Sivan, Alexa Chung, Odessa A’zion
• [16:01] – After parties, sneaking into events
• [18:06] – Tony nominations discussion
• [19:39] – Cannes Film Festival and upcoming fashion shows
• [25:25] – Start of Chloe & Candice conversation
• [26:36] – On turning 80, age and power
• [29:52] – Candice’s ideal Mother’s Day
• [33:39] – Overwhelmed at Studio 54
• [35:50] – Photojournalist adventure with Jane Goodall
• [38:45] – On loving photojournalism, career pivots
• [52:06] – Parenting/work balance during Murphy Brown
• [56:00] – Favorite part of being a grandparent
• [61:56] – Why Chloe wasn’t allowed at showbiz events
• [63:53] – Failing to “give anything” for Irving Penn

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Tone and Style Notes

• Chloe and Candice’s exchange is warm, candid, and gently self-deprecating, full of family in-jokes, showbiz glamour, and no-nonsense wisdom.
• The episode moves smoothly between Vogue’s shop talk, fashion-world name-drops, and textured personal storytelling.

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For New Listeners

If you’re new to The Run-Through or simply missed this episode, expect a nostalgic, multi-generational tour through pop culture, the evolution of working motherhood, and the making of fashion history—all with the humor and humanity of two women who’ve lived it, loved it, and aren't afraid to laugh about it.

(Skipped coverage of ads, show intros/outros, and sponsor messages per instructions.)

Transcript

[Chloe Mao]

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[Chelsea Daniel]

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[Chloe Mao]

This is the Run through. I'm Chloe Mao and our beloved Choma Nati is on a flight back to London which is very sad because it was a delight having her in New York. We are taping this with two other run through regulars, stalwarts Taylor Antrim, Marlee Marius. Welcome back.

[Taylor Antrim]

Hi Chloe.

[Marlee Marius]

Happy to be here.

[Taylor Antrim]

Slow week, right?

[Chloe Mao]

Woo. Guys, I have a lot of questions about Monday night and takeaways but we

[Taylor Antrim]

have questions for you. You had a very exciting Monday night.

[Chloe Mao]

I had a very exciting Monday night and we're just, you know, white knuckling it through this week.

[Marlee Marius]

Sure are.

[Chloe Mao]

A few days ahead of Mother's Day, we are airing conversation between me and my own mother, Candice Bergen that I love.

[Taylor Antrim]

Truly a big week to have the Met Gala and your conversation with your mother on the run through.

[Chloe Mao]

So yes, we were thinking as a group we were like what should we do for Mother's Day? And our producers were like, you know what, why don't you and Candice talk about motherhood?

[Taylor Antrim]

That's gold.

[Chloe Mao]

But before we get to that. We have had a big start to our crazy week. It's one of the longest weeks of the year here at vogue. It's like 24 hour days in Sweden.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah.

[Marlee Marius]

I think Midnight Sun. We're all living in Midnight Sun. Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

We had the Met Gala on Monday. For those unfamiliar, I want everyone to

[Taylor Antrim]

understand what a shift this is for Chloe in that she has been truly the kind of like queen, the doyen, the Tsarina of the war.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm looking for ringmaster, but sure, Ringmaster.

[Taylor Antrim]

I mean, you were dressed nicely and you had to go upstairs and be in the Met last year, but really your happy place is in the newsroom war room, where all of us are.

[Chloe Mao]

It's so fun to see everyone operating on all cylinders.

[Taylor Antrim]

And this year, tell our listeners, this year, you were explicitly barred from going downstairs and hanging out with the service staff. Yes.

[Marlee Marius]

The second string. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah. Anna did say, chloe, you can't hide in the basement.

[Candice Bergen]

This year.

[Chloe Mao]

Your job is upstairs.

[Taylor Antrim]

And honestly, the sadness that I imagine you felt in that moment was the snacks. The snacks.

[Marlee Marius]

The snacks that you spearheaded and that we all benefited from and were so grateful for.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean, Flutter Butter Bakery, Bonbon.

[Taylor Antrim]

Bonbon's a plenty People should understand that if they want to eat at the Met Gala, you gotta be in the basement. Honestly, there is an abundance of food. I couldn't believe it.

[Marlee Marius]

Piles of water, piles of sandwiches. Like, it was.

[Chloe Mao]

Nothing went to waste.

[Marlee Marius]

Nothing went to waste. Everything had a home in the ocean.

[Taylor Antrim]

It was shocking to me when the pizza arrived after, like, like 45 minutes after dinner.

[Marlee Marius]

I know.

[Taylor Antrim]

I was like. I was like, oh, my goodness. And I swear to God, all that pizza got eaten.

[Marlee Marius]

No, I know. Things are arriving in shifts. It was a long day. It was a long day. We were both.

[Chloe Mao]

What time does one have to arrive at the war room?

[Marlee Marius]

Because the streets. Sorry.

[Chloe Mao]

We actually call it the press room now because it doesn't feel sensitive.

[Taylor Antrim]

It's a little more dignified than the war room, too.

[Marlee Marius]

We are members of the media in the media room at the lot. Yes.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. Because all of the streets close.

[Marlee Marius]

Yes. It's a nightmare.

[Taylor Antrim]

And you have to get in before the streets close or you're not getting in.

[Marlee Marius]

And it's so weird.

[Chloe Mao]

We say in by two streets. Truly shut down at three. And they are not kidding around with security.

[Marlee Marius]

And before that, it's hard to navigate the streets around the Met anyway. Like, it's just streets in front of, like, the big hotels where people are staying are crowded with sort of barricades and sort of people lining up early. And it's a whole scene really navigating that part of the city. So it really does make sense for us to be there pretty early.

[Chloe Mao]

But that means people are there for, like, 10 hours.

[Taylor Antrim]

Oh, so long.

[Chloe Mao]

Florence is really the mastermind of the press room.

[Taylor Antrim]

Everyone has assigned seats.

[Chloe Mao]

Florence does all the credentials, all the food, and she gives everyone assigned seats based on your colleagues who you're working most closely with. It's a really highly. I mean, people think the Met seating chart is highly organized. Florence's restroom seating chart.

[Marlee Marius]

Our table was very close to the livestream screen, which is, like, terrible seat for me. It's there. Well, you couldn't see. And that was literally over my shoulder. It was helpful for me because I need to be closed because I can't see in general, but it was because

[Chloe Mao]

you won't go to the optometrist.

[Marlee Marius]

Okay. That's an aftermath conversation. An aftermath appointment. But yes, but it's nice because we're all kind of watching the livestream screamer at the same screaming aftermath, which is

[Taylor Antrim]

projected on a huge screen on one wall of the room just so people can picture this.

[Chloe Mao]

It's the ground floor of the Met, and it's one of the classrooms that they use for educational things. So it's. But next door, there is a huge room with our whole livestream team. And then around the corner, there's another room with our visuals team. So it's a really. It's like a rabbit warren down there of activity and the sheer tonnage. A beehive of activity and a rabbit warren.

[Taylor Antrim]

Okay. The tonnage of gear that is rolled in and out of there.

[Marlee Marius]

I know.

[Chloe Mao]

Crazy.

[Taylor Antrim]

It's incredible tonight.

[Marlee Marius]

It also makes it hard to get her out.

[Taylor Antrim]

It's like a Beyonce tour. I mean, it's like. It's nuts. I forgot about.

[Chloe Mao]

Taylor says Beyonce.

[Taylor Antrim]

Oh, God, do I still say it wrong?

[Candice Bergen]

Beyonce.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah, it.

[Candice Bergen]

Moira Rose.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah. There's like, a ton of editing to do early prepping all of those stories because.

[Chloe Mao]

Explain, Marlee, why there's so much editing in advance. I don't think people totally understand that.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah. Well, so we begin to prepare stories about Telm that we know will show up when we have information about what they're wearing. And we think it's interesting and sort of worthy of a breakout. We start to pre write those stories, but of course, we don't receive imagery until they hit the carpet. And then later we'll maybe get additional imagery from their team. So it's a lot of preparing stories, maybe leaving some gaps for details that we don't quite know, but trying to get as many things sort of prepared and ready to go as possible so that we can just kind of deploy them once people are arriving on the carpet. Because people will start arriving very quickly. You don't quite know when it's fairly

[Chloe Mao]

machine like, people have completely. Our edit team spends most of the weekend before pre writing. We have like 70 stories pre written, basically.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah. All in, like a nice spreadsheet.

[Chloe Mao]

But then there will be a curveball sometimes.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah, it was a curveball last minute. There were a couple of curveballs. Couple of them.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Cause people change their dresses last minute. They change their makeup look.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah. And so then we're like reading texts and looking at the imagery and being like, these things don't match. So what do we gotta do now?

[Taylor Antrim]

Lots of debates about what is a Trump loy dress. I feel like that happens every year.

[Chloe Mao]

No, no. But this year was particularly Trump Heav.

[Taylor Antrim]

Say that. And then like, God bless the literalists in our group.

[Chloe Mao]

Who were the literalists?

[Taylor Antrim]

Liam. He's like. It's French for yeah.

[Marlee Marius]

Okay. First of all, I made the mistake of looking at Kylie Jenner and being like, does that count as Trump? Lloyd Taylor gave me a look. So I realized that meant no. And then that turned into a whole conversation about Trump boy versus illusion.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm sorry. It is.

[Marlee Marius]

Oh, you know what I mean?

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. Because Kylie, I mean, that was a fake nipple.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah.

[Taylor Antrim]

I was like, it's just a molded nipple.

[Chloe Mao]

I guess it's nothing to do with Trump. Roy is like a mistake of the eye.

[Marlee Marius]

Well, it mistakes your eye a lot of discussion.

[Taylor Antrim]

So then there is the class photo at the end of the night.

[Marlee Marius]

Oh, geez.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, so I went. I go directly from dinner to.

[Taylor Antrim]

We haven't heard about your night at all.

[Marlee Marius]

Oh, my God. Oh, wait.

[Taylor Antrim]

We almost boring. You stood around a cocktail party for three hours. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

So many hours in the cocktail party.

[Taylor Antrim]

So many hours in the cocktail party. Yes, I've heard about that.

[Chloe Mao]

So many orbs of Caesar salad. Our producers, Alex and Chelsea were reporting live from both the red carpet at the Met and the press room and got some fabulous sound bites from our writers and celebrities alike, like Rachel Sennott, Troye Sivan.

[Candice Bergen]

What's the meal gonna be?

[Chelsea Daniel]

This is Chelsea, a producer on the Vogue podcast. I am here at the red carpet

[Chloe Mao]

Doja with a wave to Billboard.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Hi, I'm Chelsea from Vogue's podcast.

[Taylor Antrim]

I'm Troye Sivan.

[Chelsea Daniel]

How are you good?

[Taylor Antrim]

How are you?

[Chelsea Daniel]

What are you wearing tonight?

[Taylor Antrim]

Tonight I'm wearing Prada. A beautiful coat and some blue jeans and an antiqued white shirt and some cowboy boots and a little leather tie.

[Chelsea Daniel]

What took the longest today to get ready for you? The hair is amazing.

[Taylor Antrim]

Thank you very much. We actually did a little hair test the other day. It's my first time doing a hair test.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Okay.

[Taylor Antrim]

And so it was quick. It was kind of like we knew the vibe. We were like, this is good.

[Chloe Mao]

Let's just do that.

[Taylor Antrim]

And so I've been very not stressed today. It's been super nice.

[Candice Bergen]

My name is Alexa Chung.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm wearing Dior, and I've got headgear on.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Tell me about your look today.

[Chloe Mao]

So it's based off of Baldessari, an LA based artist.

[Chelsea Daniel]

It's made by Marc Jacobs, and it's

[Chloe Mao]

sort of like making the shape of,

[Chelsea Daniel]

you know, shape, fashion, women, body, whatever,

[Chloe Mao]

with circles, bold, primary colors. And my big plan is to blow a bubble on the carpet, but I

[Chelsea Daniel]

have been chewing gum for two hours

[Chloe Mao]

because I've been waiting. So let's hope it works.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Can you say your name for the podcast?

[Taylor Antrim]

Zac Posen.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Do you want to describe your look or look? Both. Both.

[Taylor Antrim]

Oh, well, we're inspired by the draping of the winged Victory of samurais. You know, 190bc, Hellenistic gown. Amazing moment of realism and fantasy.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Okay, now I'm gonna speak to Odessa Azian. She looks fabulous, and she's coming my way. Can I say hi to Vogue's podcast?

[Candice Bergen]

Hi, Vogue's podcast.

[Chloe Mao]

What's going on? I'm wearing Valentino.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Tell me how this corset. This is like you're. You're sucked in today.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Marlee Marius]

Really?

[Chelsea Daniel]

How are you breathing?

[Candice Bergen]

I'm not.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm. That's why I'm trying to rush onto the carpet so I could get out of the corset.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Can I ask you just about your

[Candice Bergen]

face, which I know is not healthy.

[Chelsea Daniel]

That's okay.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, I know that's not healthy, and it is obviously not something I do

[Candice Bergen]

on the regular, but it Fashion's art.

[Chelsea Daniel]

This is Alexandra De Palma, also a producer on the podcast. I am stationed here in Vogue, so press room at the Met. I am grabbing a few of my colleagues to ask what the vibe is, hear what looks they're excited for, and talk about some of their past experiences covering the Met. And next to me is friend of the pod, Taylor Antrim.

[Taylor Antrim]

Hello. The vibe is very. The red carpet is about to start, but we've had some arrivals. It's been fun. Everyone likes sort of like shouting out who they're seeing.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Whose looks are you most excited for tonight?

[Taylor Antrim]

Well, Nicole Kibben already showed up. She always looks really good. I thought Chase Tui Wonders looked really good, too.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Well, stay tuned because she's going to be on the podcast episode later.

[Taylor Antrim]

That's right. That's right. No, but that was. Honestly, I just thought she looked great.

[Chloe Mao]

My name is Emma Spector and I am a culture writer for Vogue's website.

[Marlee Marius]

This is Marlee Maris reporting live from the Met basement.

[Chelsea Daniel]

What's the vibe?

[Marlee Marius]

Honestly, it's good. Everyone's working away little worker bees. Everyone's plugged in, everyone's locked in. So good things are happening here. We're making magic happen, as usual.

[Chloe Mao]

Do not use that fun chaos, I would say, but like managed fun chaos.

[Chelsea Daniel]

What are you doing tonight?

[Chloe Mao]

I am trying to support my brilliant colleagues as they slayer fashion, beauty and culture coverage. And I'm also doing some of that. I liked getting to write about Jisoo making her Dior debut. Katy Perry's wild little mask that I want more details on. And I love Sarah Pigeon and I

[Chelsea Daniel]

want to say Loewe.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, everyone, Lena Dunham and Valentino. It's all happening.

[Chelsea Daniel]

We're also here with the queen of everything.

[Chloe Mao]

Hi, this is Flo.

[Candice Bergen]

Hi.

[Chelsea Daniel]

What has been the most stressful thing that's happened in your time working at

[Chloe Mao]

the Met Gala last year? I had a couple people try to say that they were on my credentials list and break in. And that was rather stressful because I had to turn these people away, which I knew I had to do, but also felt very awkward doing it.

[Taylor Antrim]

The most stressful thing was definitely last year because we had a little bit of a technical issue and it was like you could feel the stress simmering around the edges of the room. And I knew about it. A few other people knew about it. But, you know, most people keep their game faces on and plow through it.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Are you going to go to any after parties?

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[Candice Bergen]

Go night night.

[Chloe Mao]

I went too hard at pre med. Still recovering. After dinner. There's a robust text chain at the end when Stevie Nicks is still singing Landslide. And I have Chelsea, our producer, texting me, where's Chase? Dewey wonders. And I was like, I have eyes on her. She went across the room and grabbed A$AP Rocky to say hello. Cause they're working on a project together. She couldn't explain.

[Taylor Antrim]

You heard it here.

[Chloe Mao]

So then I was like, I. And then me, Chase and Choma and our Met escort brought us down to the true basement, which is the Costume Institute's headquarters. And it's also like the mannequin graveyard. It's where they keep all the old mannequins. So you're just, like, surrounded by creepy mannequins.

[Taylor Antrim]

You've been in two creepy mannequin rooms within a week. Madame Tussauds, too.

[Marlee Marius]

Well, this is the air for it.

[Taylor Antrim]

Anyway, you're potting with chase tutti wonders.

[Chloe Mao]

Chase 2. We go to pod in the costume Institute, which was very fun. And then I have Taylor Antrim calling me, Florence calling me, and I'm like, chelsea, what's happening?

[Taylor Antrim]

We were all assembled on the steps, Anna included, and the entire Vogue staff that's been working all night. We take this sort of class photo at the end of the night, and who isn't there? Chloe Moll.

[Marlee Marius]

But please understand, we were standing on the steps for about 10 minutes in absolute silence, waiting for you.

[Chloe Mao]

I ran upstairs in the middle of

[Taylor Antrim]

our videotaped podcast to great cheers from the whole crowd.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, that was very nice.

[Taylor Antrim]

Thrilled to see. We took pictures. And then that was the end of the night for me. But not for you, too.

[Chloe Mao]

But I did change behind Florence's back into my after party dress.

[Taylor Antrim]

The classic Chloe move.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, because I tried to change Florence being tiny.

[Taylor Antrim]

Everyone, let's just establish.

[Marlee Marius]

Chloe was like, let me open this curtain and see if I can go back here. There were absolutely 10 men.

[Chloe Mao]

I was like, not there.

[Marlee Marius]

I'm so sorry. Gentle.

[Chloe Mao]

So then Marley Graham and I went to the GQ after party.

[Marlee Marius]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

And arrived with Colman Domingo, who was so happy to be reunited with Marlee Marios, who wrote his cover story, was

[Marlee Marius]

so excited to be reunited with you after your intimate dinner over the weekend. Sure, sure, sure. That was fun.

[Taylor Antrim]

But if you really want to read about after parties, you should read our franchise story. I went to every single after party. This year's written by fearless Eileen Kelly. Yeah.

[Marlee Marius]

Who seemed to have snuck into a lot of parties. That's all we'll say.

[Taylor Antrim]

She says she has a skill at doing that.

[Marlee Marius]

Indeed.

[Taylor Antrim]

I believe that the thing about Eileen's piece, which was true of iterations of this piece in the past, is by trying to go to all the parties, you get to some of them way too early. And it's this, like, excruciating experience of standing in a chic afterparty and being the only one there. So she had, like, two or three of those. It finally pops off when she gets to. Gosh, some party where Sabrina Carpenter is eating a hamburger and french fries with Stevie Nicks. With Stevie Nicks. And I was like, okay, she's achieved.

[Marlee Marius]

Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

I also want to say that we had a big pre Met weekend which was extremely full from our Vogue Cafe at Ultra Tripera Diso with Chase Sapphire, which was so much fun. We had so many fun activities and delicious pastries and also so many pre Met parties on Saturday and our fabulous pre Met cast and crew party on Friday night at Madame Tussauds. It was amazing, which was our colleague Katie Noel's brilliant idea and was so freaky and cuckoo. Seeing Somber posing with Audrey Hepburn is something I shan't soon forget.

[Marlee Marius]

The number of people who had a jump scare from Whoopi Goldberg of all people. Whoopi Goldberg was freaking me out a thousand times.

[Taylor Antrim]

Every time I looked, she was staring at me.

[Chloe Mao]

We're moving on, moving on. The world continues to turn. Marlee, tell us about Tony nominations which came out at 9am after the Met.

[Marlee Marius]

Yeah, that was great timing.

[Chloe Mao]

Tony's great timing out here at 7am on Tuesday morning. And we're just working away. And then at 8:52 she goes, Tony.

[Marlee Marius]

Yes, deeply. However, we're very excited about some of the nominees because it's a lot of shows that we covered in book. It's a lot of shows that we covered online. The Dear John Lithgow was nominated for his performance in Giant and Giant's also nominated for best play. Rocky Horror show got a nomination.

[Chloe Mao]

A good set designer for Rocky Horror, who I love Dots got a nom.

[Marlee Marius]

Dot's is amazing and I feel like they're. They probably have a thousand Tonys, but they do amazing work and yes, they were nominated. Ragtime was one of the most nominated shows of the year. And we did a big story on that show and it's amazing.

[Chloe Mao]

So I mean, Andre De Shields from

[Marlee Marius]

Cats, he sure did. And Cats also is nominated for best revival of a musical. So it's really exciting. This season has been really fun and really wide range of entertainments, let's say kind of every kind of theatergoer, I think, has something to be excited about. Death of. From Death of a Salesman to Titanique. There's a lot to do. There's lots to do.

[Taylor Antrim]

What are you gonna be rooting for?

[Marlee Marius]

I think the best theater experience I had this season was at Death of a Salesman. But there were lots of other shows, honestly, that I enjoyed as well. Like David Lindsay Aber play the Ballisters, which is actually based on. It's like based on a Sort of community board group. There are. Yeah, there are lots of good shows. So it's gonna be an exciting ceremony on June 7th, and we will sure be covering it.

[Chloe Mao]

So, Taylor, I cannot believe it, but the Cannes Film Festival starts next Tuesday.

[Taylor Antrim]

I know, and I love reading all the reviews. I won't be there, but our colleague Radhika Seth from Birche Vogue goes. And she has very particular tastes that I always love hearing what she thinks about movies.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, you guys have sort of overlapping, like, creepy tastes.

[Taylor Antrim]

She's even creepier than me. She's a bit of a freak. She out creeps me. It's great. I'm excited about three. I mean, it's very art house this year. There's nary a blockbuster in sight. Like, this is really kind of for the film nerds among us. But I'm excited about Fjord, which is Christian Moonjoo's new movie. His last movie was called rmn, which I thought was really fascinating. And this one stars Sebastian Stan and Renata Renzva.

[Marlee Marius]

Friend of the pod.

[Taylor Antrim]

Friend of the pod. And we love this because our colleague Liam Hess was covering, like, Chic Hotel in the wilds of Norway, and he was slacking us. He was like, you guys, Renata and Sebastian Stan are here. Are they, like, having a thing? And actually, it was just the wrap party for this very film. Fjord, I thought you were gonna say

[Chloe Mao]

Liam became an extra.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah, that's the next ch. Jane Schoenbrunn, who is a very interesting sort of quasi horror filmmaker, has a third film called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, which is premiering at Cannes and then will be in limited theaters here in August. And it looks super cool. It stars Hannah Einbinder, who I've never seen because I've never watched hacks, but this will be my entree into the world of Einbinder. I'm excited.

[Marlee Marius]

She rocks.

[Taylor Antrim]

And also Gillian Anderson doing a ludicrous southern accent in the trailer sounds awesome. But their movies are really surreal and sort of creep. And I enjoy them, even though I haven't loved loved any of them. I saw the TV Glow being the last one, and then this is really just for the heads out there. But 10 years after his last film, Nicholas Winding, Refn has a movie coming to Cannes called Her Private Hell. And it's got Sophie Thatcher, who we like a lot. We all saw her in yellow jackets and in that sort of.

[Marlee Marius]

She's kind of a scream queen, right?

[Taylor Antrim]

Kind of a scream queen. She was in Heretic, which was like a super good with Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant movie, you know, And Nicholas Winding Refn. I mean, Drive is the canonical film from him as far as I'm concerned with Ryan Gosling. We all remember that from however many years ago. But he's just extremely atmospheric and sort of, you know, very dark filmmaker. And I'm very excited for that. So those are my three.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm very excited for the fashion. Always a big moment. Choma had the great call that she wants to see the Chanel naked foot shoe on the Cannes red carpet because that would be against protocol.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah.

[Marlee Marius]

And we took a wild guess that Kristen Stewart's gonna be wearing that shoe. She loves a weird Chanel moment at Cannes. Can't wait.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm heading to LA next week for Jonath Anderson's Dior cruise show, which is happening on May 13th at LACMA. And then that following weekend, Gucci is in New York. And then the following week, Vuitton is in New York. So big, big resort energy. But I'm very excited to go to la. I'm very excited to have sort of two days, you know, in a hotel without my children. And I love living the dream. I love just sort of bopping around la. Obviously I grew up there and so did my mother, who we will now be onto our conversation with Candace.

[Taylor Antrim]

Great segue.

[Marlee Marius]

Good job.

[Chloe Mao]

Which we talk about her childhood, my childhood, her career, her time modeling at Vogue and her motherhood advice for me what she feel, you know, thoughts about being a grandmother. I'm also celebrating her 80th birthday this weekend.

[Taylor Antrim]

Magician's galore, right?

[Chloe Mao]

We do. We have a magician. 50 people at Maximes.

[Marlee Marius]

Oh, my God.

[Chloe Mao]

We're working on the seating chart now. Really fun to go for metal to CB80.

[Marlee Marius]

That's major.

[Chloe Mao]

That's major. Well, yeah, we have a mentalist coming who does card tricks and we also got cards for everyone.

[Marlee Marius]

Wow.

[Taylor Antrim]

So exciting.

[Chloe Mao]

The run through will be back with me and my mother, Candice Bergen, after this quick break. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford.

[Chelsea Daniel]

And I'm John Ross.

[Chloe Mao]

And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers.

[Chelsea Daniel]

And just because the Oscars are done

[Chloe Mao]

for now doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform. In a simple and affordable way, you can save money without missing out on

[Candice Bergen]

the features you need.

[Chloe Mao]

Check out Odoo at O D O O dot com. That's O D O O dot com. Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send your money abroad with your everyday bank? Choose the smart way Wise. You can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google. No unwelcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money Feeling. Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart, get wise. Download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply. How are you doing, Toto?

[Candice Bergen]

I'm good.

[Chloe Mao]

Are you so excited to be here?

[Candice Bergen]

So excited.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you love the traffic?

[Candice Bergen]

Love? I can't get enough traffic.

[Chloe Mao]

Did you come here last time you did the podcast, or was it by Zoom?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't remember.

[Chloe Mao]

Seriously?

[Candice Bergen]

No.

[Chloe Mao]

You did it with Sarah Jessica Parker around in. Just like that.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, that was years ago, honey.

[Chloe Mao]

Like two.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, two years ago. And I don't think we came here,

[Chloe Mao]

but I. Oh, SJP was on Zoom. You were here.

[Candice Bergen]

Ah. Well, thank you.

[Chloe Mao]

And you loved it.

[Candice Bergen]

I loved it.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, no, clearly not. This is our Mother's Day episode, okay? And it's all about what we learn from our mothers. And you are turning 80.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, God, honey.

[Chloe Mao]

The day after Mother's Day. What do you mean, oh, God? Honey, you just gave two interviews about it, AARP and PP. That was your newspag, and you told AARP turning 80 isn't what it used to be.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, but it's still 80.

[Chloe Mao]

Why is it not what it used to be?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, because we've extended these deadlines. I mean, turning 40, we extended to 60. And 60, we extended to 80. And so we've given and we've given life extensions and life to these major birthdays that used to mean. I mean, really, when I was in school, turning 30 was, like, the end of your life.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow.

[Candice Bergen]

30?

[Chloe Mao]

Really?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Because why you were done, like, childbearing.

[Candice Bergen]

I don't know. There was no reason. I was, like, in seventh or eighth grade, but it was like, oh, she's 30. You know, she's almost dead.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. When I. Greta, I observed the Greta Gerwig interview with Anna and Meryl. Greta was saying that she Finds it very impressive that Meryl and Anna are still women in the full of their power, even though they're past childbearing age. Because typically, historically, women's power was only about their ability to have children. And once they pass that zone, we

[Candice Bergen]

were no longer of use.

[Chloe Mao]

Exactly. Do you feel powerful?

[Candice Bergen]

I feel like I'm grateful for the extension.

[Chloe Mao]

How old was Franu when she died?

[Candice Bergen]

84.

[Chloe Mao]

She was an old 80. That felt different.

[Candice Bergen]

I mean, she looked great, but she was old.

[Chloe Mao]

Franu is what I called my grandmother Toto's mother. And Toto is what my children call Candace.

[Candice Bergen]

I love it.

[Chloe Mao]

One day when artie was about 18 months old, he said tau toe, and it stuck. What are you doing for your birthday, which is the day before Mother's Day?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't know.

[Chloe Mao]

Can.

[Candice Bergen]

I was relying on you to come up with something.

[Chloe Mao]

You don't know what you're doing.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, I'm having a party the day before.

[Chloe Mao]

So you do know.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, the day before, but not my actual birthday.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, well, what are you doing for your general birthday?

[Candice Bergen]

My general birthday? I'm having 50 people to a club.

[Chloe Mao]

Not a nightclub.

[Candice Bergen]

No, a club. A dinner club. And there are 50 people that I'm close to. You'll make a speech.

[Chloe Mao]

It's a really relaxing, easy week for me. I won't be tired at all after not sleeping Monday and Tuesday.

[Candice Bergen]

True, but you can do it. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes. Candice's birthday and Mother's Day are always right after the Met Gala, so it's really fun. And then Artie's birthday is the next week.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

So we're working on CB80 and Artie 6.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes. And we can combine me with Artie and push it a week.

[Chloe Mao]

Ken, are you crazy? We've had this booked for months.

[Candice Bergen]

Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

Also, he's having a bounce house. Oh, these are different parties. Is just my point.

[Candice Bergen]

I could be in a bounce house.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay. What is your dream Mother's Day?

[Candice Bergen]

Frankly, just being in the country with you and my grandkids is.

[Chloe Mao]

I was trying to think, what have we done historically on Mother's Day? Not much. Except for.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, you've done a lot for me by having kids. I never would have asked you to have kids, but I was so grateful that you did.

[Chloe Mao]

You always say this. I never asked. And yet.

[Candice Bergen]

And yet I made up for it.

[Chloe Mao]

What did you do with Frannu growing up for Mother's Day? Was Mother's Day a thing when you were little, or was it a Hallmark holiday?

[Candice Bergen]

It was a Hallmark holiday, so there

[Chloe Mao]

was no celebrating No, I mean, you'd

[Candice Bergen]

do a card, you'll do flowers, you'd. I mean, dinner in the dining room.

[Chloe Mao]

Last time you were on the podcast, it was with Sarah Jessica Parker to talk about playing Enid Frick. Reprised. Enid Frick was a Vogue editor on Sex and City, both the series and the movie. And people on the Internet were very quick to point out that Enid's role was similar to my new role at Vogue. What do you think about that?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, I think that's true.

[Chloe Mao]

What could Enid teach us?

[Candice Bergen]

How to dress, basically. But you're doing so well. You know, Enid was. Enid was really fun to play. And she was a little frosty and aloof. So you don't have that at all. Thank God. But. But it was sort of fun to play.

[Chloe Mao]

Your first Vogue cover was in 1967. Do you remember this?

[Candice Bergen]

I sort of do.

[Chloe Mao]

It was. You had a big bouffant.

[Candice Bergen]

I had so many hairpieces. I had, like, 40 hairpieces.

[Chloe Mao]

Then you. Did you leave wearing the hairpieces and walk around with them in? No. Or you had them taken all out?

[Candice Bergen]

I had them all taken out.

[Chloe Mao]

I sort of like when people leave shoots with their hair in from.

[Candice Bergen]

But it's not theirs.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, that's true. Cause they're expensive.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah. And you can't just walk out with

[Chloe Mao]

it with thousands of dollars worth of wands.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah. Thousands of dollars of hair.

[Chloe Mao]

You're so conscientious.

[Candice Bergen]

I am conscientious.

[Chloe Mao]

It was the COVID and it was sort of you leaning forward with a big bouffant of hair pieces. And it was called the American woman in 1967. Shot by Bert Stern.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you remember anything about that shoot?

[Candice Bergen]

I remember I liked Bert Stern a lot. He had a great sense of humor. He was very smart and fun to work with. I remember we went to a club afterward with him. We met his wife. What club? I don't know.

[Chloe Mao]

A club like Studio 54. Like the Cosmopolitan Club?

[Candice Bergen]

No, there was a club called the Club, and it was a small place over on the east side. And it was very intimate, and it was fun.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay. Actually, I went Studio 54 last night for Rocky Horror.

[Candice Bergen]

Really?

[Chloe Mao]

With Sam Cochran. And we were marveling how close it is to 222. Did you used to go to Studio 54 a lot?

[Candice Bergen]

Absolutely not. Never once. Once, yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

With who?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't even know. I went with a group of people. I was overwhelmed.

[Chloe Mao]

You don't remember anything else?

[Candice Bergen]

I just remember there was so much going on. Bianca Was there Jagger on a horse? No, she was not on a horse that night, but there might have been a horse there unattached to Bianca. But, I mean, there was just so much happening that it was clearly a place I didn't belong.

[Chloe Mao]

Why?

[Candice Bergen]

I was just overwhelmed.

[Chloe Mao]

But you did go to the club with Bert Stern. Do you remember other times shooting for Vogue?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, I remember. With Avedon. Shooting a few times. I love Dick Avedon.

[Chloe Mao]

Always in studio or ever on location?

[Candice Bergen]

No, with Avedon always in studio.

[Chloe Mao]

Who's the photographer who you've been most inspired by? The way they work?

[Candice Bergen]

My friend, Mary Ellen Mark, who is no longer with us, but who was a great photojournalist, and I met her in college. She was a few years older than I was, but she was already a photographer and a very good one, and was very generous with what she'd learned and taught me how to print.

[Chloe Mao]

Did she inspire you to become a photojournalist?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, but at the time, photojournalism was getting a cachet, a sort of energy to it, and it was being discovered and photojournalists were being discovered, so it was kind of like a new medium.

[Chloe Mao]

Because then you started working. Did you ever work for one magazine completely or you were taking assignments for different magazines?

[Candice Bergen]

No, I just freelance assignments.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, we were just talking about when you shot for Women's Home Journal with Jane Goodall, who died last year, and you stayed with her for a week. Right. Or longer than that. Ten days in Tanzania on Lake Gombe. What were your living accommodations?

[Candice Bergen]

They were very simple. I had a. Jane lived. I lived in the guest hut, and Jane lived in another hut further down the beach. We were both on the beach of the lake, Lake Tanganyika, actually. And I just had a hut. There was no sink. It was a window and four walls and a door with a heavy screen. Because in the morning, I had a couple of bananas on my nightstand for dinner. And the baboons would come in the morning and rattle the door to get to the bananas.

[Chloe Mao]

Because they could smell the bananas or they could see them?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, because they could smell the bananas.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow.

[Candice Bergen]

And they wanted them.

[Chloe Mao]

So what.

[Taylor Antrim]

How did.

[Candice Bergen]

And so did I. So I threw the bananas. I opened the door a crack and I threw the bananas down the beach. And then when they ran to get the bananas, I escaped and I ran in the opposite direction to the camp.

[Chloe Mao]

So you didn't get your bananas?

[Candice Bergen]

No, I didn't, but I got other bananas because we had a lot of bananas. That's what we ate.

[Chloe Mao]

What was the daily Routine like for Jane?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, she would follow the chimps. Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

And baboons, or just chimps.

[Candice Bergen]

No, she was not a BAB person. In order for Jane to get funding for her research station, which she needed to fund, she had to agree with Stanford to accept a certain small amount of students who were studying that kind of biology, animal biology. So some of the students were BAB students, which was not considered these.

[Chloe Mao]

That was the lesser.

[Candice Bergen]

It was a lesser group. It was like sort of you didn't want to belong to the BAB group, even though the babs were more interesting because they were lively and they moved around.

[Chloe Mao]

They were livelier than chimpanzees.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, yeah. Chimpanzees would sit for hours and groom. They would pick fleas off each other and eat them like Ritz crackers. And so it was much more lazy and relaxing to be a chimp person, even though they were at the top of the heap.

[Chloe Mao]

So Jane Goodall was a chimp person and she would only do chimps. But the other Stanford students that she liked less were the bab people.

[Candice Bergen]

I don't know that she chose the people to go in those groups, and I don't think she would have expressed favoritism in that way. But, yes, there was a definite sort of we look down on the bab people.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I was interested reading the article because you talk about how Jane borrowed parenting techniques from the baboons and the chimpanzees. What were those?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, for instance, she had her son, Grub. Grublin, I think his full name was, and he grew up on Lake Tanganyika and he didn't have any other kids there. So he would play often with chimps and babs and he would branch wave, which is a classic sort of chimp courtship. And so I would see Grub sort of branch waving at a chimp down the beach.

[Chloe Mao]

Where's Grub now?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, he's probably 50 or more.

[Chloe Mao]

Did that give you any insight into parenting?

[Candice Bergen]

No. You've got guts.

[Chloe Mao]

Were you ever regretful that you stopped doing photojournalism?

[Candice Bergen]

You know, I wasn't good enough to keep doing it and to do it at the level I wanted to do it, but I loved when I was doing it. And I worked for the Today show, which I love, because I would do a different piece every week. I did the Ku Klux Klan and the Muhammad Ali, who was really interesting and fun to do. And I did sort of who I wanted, which was great.

[Chloe Mao]

And you're supposed to be doing a

[Candice Bergen]

book of your photos Am I?

[Chloe Mao]

How's that going? It was due during COVID Yeah.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah. I was just looking at the pages today and thinking, oh, God, I better get moving on this.

[Chloe Mao]

That poor editor.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm so grateful it's not me.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, I know. Me too.

[Chloe Mao]

And you know what else I just realized that you were on the COVID of Playboy when I was 4.

[Candice Bergen]

Chloe, I was on the COVID of Playboy fully dressed. I was in like a tuxedo.

[Chloe Mao]

I know they were known for their articles at the time. Yeah, I'm just saying. Didn't register that as a four year old.

[Candice Bergen]

It's nothing. I would have volunteered.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, but in it, I was very amused that in the interview you talked about how much you respect Diane Sawyer and that she was someone that you really looked up to as a woman working in journalism. And now she's one of your closest friends. Yeah. So you could show her that centerfold. Do you remember other women at that time that you looked up to as women whose careers you wanted to emulate?

[Candice Bergen]

I remember Katie Couric was someone

[Chelsea Daniel]

who

[Candice Bergen]

was very appealing and very smart. And then she started her own company and it ran like clockwork. And I always was very impressed by Katie Couric.

[Chloe Mao]

And also in that interview, which I'd never heard before, you said that, Edgar, your father used to say all beautiful women he knew were unhappy.

[Candice Bergen]

He said more than that. He said they get in trouble and who are unhappy. And so he said, I want you to always focus on your other interests and. Which I ultimately did.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. The run through will be back in a moment.

[Chelsea Daniel]

I'm Jessie Sevcyk. And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic. And we're senior Test Kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers. We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive.

[Candice Bergen]

And we love to talk about all

[Chelsea Daniel]

the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it. Every month, we publish a recipe on bon appetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know. Then you'll go bake, send us any

[Candice Bergen]

questions you have, and we'll get together

[Chelsea Daniel]

here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And this.

[Chloe Mao]

This month, we're making strawberry roll cake.

[Chelsea Daniel]

It is the unofficial birthday cake of the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen, and it is the perfect way to welcome spring. Head to ba.com and come and bake along with us. Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclubon appetit.com or find us on the substack. Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake find, Ba Bake Club, wherever you get your podcasts. Happy birthday. Baking.

[Chloe Mao]

Are you going to read Liza Minnelli's story?

[Candice Bergen]

I've read it.

[Chloe Mao]

You did?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah. And I've known Liza since I was 7, and so I read it right

[Chloe Mao]

away, and I love that. Vincent Minnelli, Liza's father, who is a wonderful director, used to have miniature versions of all the costumes for his movies made for Liza to dress up in with her friends.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Which now when I see these sort of polyester belle dresses that Alice gets.

[Candice Bergen]

That's not what Liza very.

[Chloe Mao]

This was Edith Head. What role? In Her Grave. Really? They were.

[Candice Bergen]

Edith had miniatures.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God. So what would you dress up as? Which characters? Honey, you can do it.

[Candice Bergen]

No, I can't. I don't know. Someone from Gone with the Wind or.

[Chloe Mao]

He didn't direct Gone with the Wind.

[Candice Bergen]

He didn't have to. He could just pick things out of movies.

[Chloe Mao]

Gigi, was Liza one of the people that you would go to the Beverly Hills Coffee Shop with?

[Candice Bergen]

No.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Candice Bergen]

I went with Roxie Johnson.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Okay.

[Candice Bergen]

Her father was Nunneley Johnson, who wrote the man in the Gray Flannel Suit. He was a writer.

[Chloe Mao]

I don't know what that is.

[Candice Bergen]

It was a great movie, a great classic at the time. And he was a writer, director, very educated, interesting, funny guy. And Roxy I haven't seen for 100 years, but she.

[Chloe Mao]

But you used to walk your. Or bike down to the Beverly Hills Hotel with your dogs, which sounds so dangerous.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, you know, it was. Beverly Hills was different then. There wasn't this sort of crush of cars.

[Chloe Mao]

Was that when you were riding your horse down Sunset or. That was Edgar.

[Candice Bergen]

No, that was Edgar.

[Chloe Mao]

You're not that old. But that's amazing that he. That Sunset Boulevard, you could ride horses.

[Candice Bergen]

He would ride down Sunset and he would ride down Rodeo, which has a lovely divider. Or had. And. Yeah. He would ride down Sunset to the beach.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. That is unbelievable.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, la in the old days, in the 30s and 40s was a different place.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, yeah, but I mean, that's really. You know, everyone has been talking about JFK junior On Murphy Brown.

[Candice Bergen]

That soundstage when he did the Murphy Brown, he did it to promote George, which was his magazine that was then coming, had the first issue coming out and you couldn't get in the stage because the women from all over the Warner Brothers lot were clogging the doorways. It was like.

[Chloe Mao]

And was he very charming?

[Candice Bergen]

He was so charming and so modest and so handsome. God, he was handsome and he was a lovely guy.

[Chloe Mao]

What was his role on Murphy Brown?

[Candice Bergen]

He played my assistant for a quick

[Chloe Mao]

minute, which was one of the running.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes. Which was one of the running gags on the show.

[Chloe Mao]

Many people played Murphy's assistant. We just went to the SNL taping last couple of weeks ago.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, you did.

[Chloe Mao]

Where you inducted Jack Black into the Five Timers Club. Five Timers Club is people who have hosted Saturday Night Live five times. And you and Tina Fey are, as Lorne Michaels says, local hires. So whenever he needs someone inducted, you're his first port of call. But you were the first woman to host snl, which at the time, I'm sure you didn't feel like as big a deal. Cause it had just started.

[Candice Bergen]

I did the third show. Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

What did people think of it back then?

[Candice Bergen]

You know, it took a while for the show to be discovered. I think Paul Simon hosted the first show, which was a Thanksgiving show. And he was dressed as a turkey and sang Still Crazy After All These Years, which I thought was brilliant. And then I did the third show, and of course, it was the purest terror. Lauren said I look like Patty Hearst. When she opened the door to the sla. It was like,

[Chloe Mao]

who was on the cast then? The first cast.

[Candice Bergen]

Gilda.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Candice Bergen]

Gilda Radner, John Belushi, Chevy Chase, Danny Aykroyd.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you remember any of your Garrett Morris first sketches?

[Candice Bergen]

No, honey.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes, you do. Like the bee in Rock Center.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, I do remember the bees. That was maybe the second show I did. Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, can you tell us about that?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, we did a sketch where we. I was dressed as Sonya Henney in her figure in a sort of red velvet with feathers on the bottom and ice skates. And we did a Bee Capades. And the other cast members were dressed as bees, of course. And we just skated around, flailing. Cause none of us could really skate. But there was the ice rink right below the studio. So we used it. We, Lauren used it. And that was it.

[Chloe Mao]

And then you dressed me as a bee. As one of my first Halloween costumes in a full arc.

[Candice Bergen]

That's right.

[Chloe Mao]

I had amazing Halloween costumes. You did. The costume designer for Murphy Brown would make my Halloween costumes.

[Candice Bergen]

I remember.

[Chloe Mao]

Not unlike Vincent Minnelli. You really used.

[Candice Bergen]

You flexed your power. That's right.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah. She made me a great Lucille Ball

[Candice Bergen]

costume once I remember that.

[Chloe Mao]

That was sort of a. And Shane, my poor friend Shane had to be Athol.

[Candice Bergen]

She was really a good sport because it didn't do her any favors.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, she was 7. But, yes, my Halloween costumes were very high value.

[Candice Bergen]

They were. They were.

[Chloe Mao]

I would go. If she didn't make it herself, she would take me to the Warner Brothers costume stage and look for tiny versions of things. I loved going to the Murphy set when I was little, and I would.

[Candice Bergen]

You thought it was an office.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah. And I would explore sort of all the dark tunnels and things. Sort of.

[Candice Bergen]

And you climb up the ladders. You'd be on the rig. Ugh. It was insane that I let you do that.

[Chloe Mao]

And Lois would come.

[Candice Bergen]

She wouldn't do that.

[Chloe Mao]

No, but she would come a lot, which is insane that you also did that. Lois was our dog.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, Our great dog.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I know, but I just, you know, on a soundstage. I don't know that most soundstages let people bring their dogs.

[Candice Bergen]

No, but we were a very successful show, and Warner Brothers was resting on our laurels at the moment, so I took full advantage.

[Chloe Mao]

I also felt like it was a great example of. You were very much. It was a nice family that Murphy had.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, lovely.

[Chloe Mao]

And you were a great leader of that. But also other people really led that in a lovely way. And you're still in touch with so many of those people.

[Candice Bergen]

I'm still close friends with Diane English, who created and wrote Murphy Brown. She wrote the First Four Years, and I'm friendly. I love Faithy Ford and I love Joe Rigal Buto. But I haven't seen him in Grant. Grant Shaw, I love. And he's sort of in some place in the depths of Pennsylvania, but

[Chloe Mao]

says someone who's never been to Pennsylvania.

[Candice Bergen]

He went to school.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, that's true.

[Candice Bergen]

Briefly.

[Chloe Mao]

Did you feel like you were always sort of leading on a set you were on? I asked this because when I recently interviewed Meryl with Anna, Greta Gerwig said that Meryl is always such a great leader on sets. And she said, I try to be. Except when I did a movie with Candace. When I did a movie with Candace, she and Dianne Wiest ganged up on me. She said it was like wrestling, and I loved it. So I guess that's. You're just sort of leaning in when you're on set. Well, sometimes on shrinking, which you were just on briefly. Who was the leader of the shrinking set?

[Candice Bergen]

It was a fairly equitable set. I mean, it was Harrison Ford, it was Jason Segel, and they were lovely. It was a lovely set to work

[Chloe Mao]

on Christa Miller, who we knew way back when. Cause she used to date Grant Shaw when they were both kids. So that was very fun to sort of rediscover her later in life. What were your non negotiables with Warner Brothers about when you would be available to do parenting stuff?

[Candice Bergen]

Say what?

[Chloe Mao]

Like, I now am always figuring out how much I'm going to say no to things at work. I'm gonna take the kids to school, but it means I'm gonna get in at 9:30, which is late. I'm gonna leave at 5:30 so I can be home by 6. But then I do feel like then I have to get back online at 8pm when the kids go to bed. But there are certain things that are my non negotiables that I want to be there for.

[Candice Bergen]

I would be there every morning at 9:30 after I took you to school.

[Chloe Mao]

You always drove carpool.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, and then I would be home by 5:30, maybe 6. Except for Thursday and Friday nights.

[Chloe Mao]

Friday nights were very late.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, because we shot the show that night.

[Chloe Mao]

You would get home at like 2 or later, right? I know, I know.

[Candice Bergen]

And you'd be up sometimes and we'd watch TV movies at 2am no more at like midnight.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. Well, I always loved that. You would have either my fake Aunt Bea or my uncle, who I called Zoo stay over. And then I would make French toast with Bea in the morning. And then you would sort of come out after you'd, you know, been up all night, basically. Were there any things that you wish you'd done differently or any times that you had to sort of push back on the studio or the show about when you could be available?

[Candice Bergen]

There were physical demands of the show that were that you couldn't change. I mean, you had to shoot a play a week. But they bent over backwards to accommodate my schedule. And they would come with schedules and they would say, okay, so this is when you can get there. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And then Thursday you're home by this and this. And then we would have dinner at Orso's on the weekend.

[Chloe Mao]

That's true.

[Candice Bergen]

Which was lovely.

[Chloe Mao]

We were just talking about that with Artie because I would always have a Polly Pocket. And now he has like a Ninja Turtle Polly Pocket he's very proud of. Are there any parenting decisions you regret?

[Candice Bergen]

I mean, it was certainly demanding to do a show and be the kind of present parent that I wanted to be. But look at you. And I felt that I was present in Ways that mattered and on a continuous basis.

[Chloe Mao]

I always remember you also saying about Poppy, my father, that when he was present, he also was. He was not often present, but when he was, he was really in it. Like if he was building a sandcastle, he was on his knees building a sandcastle. Whereas you had other friends who, if they were with their kids, they were also on the phone and they were also, you know, talking to someone else. And I always felt with you that you were fully there with me and never frustrated or impatient about that, but always very grateful to be present. And I try to remember that because I'm on frustrated with my children, but I also try to have my phone in a different room for an hour of bedtime, but it's hard. And I do feel like it's this moment in my life that's so full, and I'm so grateful for it, but I'm just exhausted all the time, and I feel like you.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, you are.

[Chloe Mao]

And you got sick whenever the show ended.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Candice Bergen]

Cause I would save it up, which

[Chloe Mao]

I think happens to a lot of people. But, I mean, we would. The show would end usually, like, the night before my spring break, and then we would leave, and because you didn't think there was enough culture in la, we would go, well, there wasn't. To Moscow, and you'd be, like, quite sick in a tour of the Kremlin. And it took its toll on. You know.

[Candice Bergen]

I know, and I apologize.

[Chloe Mao]

No, I mean, it's hard that you. We could have just gone to Hawaii, but you stuck it out.

[Candice Bergen]

Why go to Hawaii when you could fly LA to Moscow?

[Chloe Mao]

What is your favorite part about being a grandparent?

[Candice Bergen]

That was your biggest gift. I just love those two kids. I love them to death. And they are so different, one from another and so filled with life and love. I love getting to re. Experience the joys of all that.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you think parenting is different now than it was when I was little? Like, do you think people are stricter now or there's more going on, or has the philosophy around raising kids changed dramatically?

[Candice Bergen]

I think that it sort of veered away from the strictness, and now it's come back to it.

[Chloe Mao]

Were you very strict?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Really?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Huh.

[Candice Bergen]

I don't really remember that you complained about it.

[Chloe Mao]

Huh. You remember any examples?

[Candice Bergen]

No, I just remember that you would say, you know, other parents don't do that, and other parents don't make their kids come home that early. And I said, well, that's what you're stuck with. Lovely.

[Chloe Mao]

We went to Disneyland This Christmas we did, which was very exciting. And you announced that it was your last time that you were going to Disneyland.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, that's correct.

[Chloe Mao]

Can you tell me about your first time going to Disneyland?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, Uncle Walt was there. I went to the opening of Disneyland with my parents.

[Chloe Mao]

When you were how old?

[Candice Bergen]

Maybe 10, 11, I think.

[Chloe Mao]

We looked it up and it was 56, so you must have been 10.

[Candice Bergen]

And I remember what I was wearing.

[Chloe Mao]

What did you wear when you were 10 years old to the opening of Disneyland?

[Candice Bergen]

I wore a crisp red oxford cloth shirt with suspenders stitched on. I loved it.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Candice Bergen]

And jeans or slacks would have been slacks. With my mother, they.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you have a first fashion memory?

[Candice Bergen]

I remember modeling when I was 15 or 16. I started to earn my own money and just putting on what seemed like grown up clothes, women's suits and stockings, and thinking, ooh, what a lot of trouble.

[Chloe Mao]

But you liked it?

[Candice Bergen]

It was interesting the first few times and then it faded.

[Chloe Mao]

I remember when I. I think when I was like 15 and saw almost Famous, and I said, were you a hippie? And you said, I was a well dressed hippie.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, I was.

[Chloe Mao]

What does that mean?

[Candice Bergen]

It means that I gave it some thought and that the beads were nice ones and the blouses were silk. And, you know.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, this weekend Artie's very focused on dungeons and people being locked up. And so you were telling Artie about the time you got arrested.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, God.

[Chloe Mao]

Would you like to share with our listeners?

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, God. I was arrested. I don't remember when it was. Do you know when it was?

[Chloe Mao]

It must have been in the 60s. It wasn't it for Vietnam?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, yeah. I was arrested with. A group of us were arrested for obstructing the Senate corridor by lying down. Was, I believe the charge.

[Chloe Mao]

What were you wearing then?

[Candice Bergen]

I was wearing pants and a blouse.

[Chloe Mao]

And was it an organized group?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, it was an organized group. I don't remember, honey. And then we were put in a paddy wagon and taken to jail and booked.

[Chloe Mao]

But no handcuffs or zip ties?

[Candice Bergen]

No, I don't think there were handcuffs. I would have remembered that. But then we were in a jail cell for. In D.C. in Washington D.C. for longer than I would have thought.

[Chloe Mao]

With any other people in jail or just you and the group you came in with?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, there were other people in jail, but we were in one cell.

[Chloe Mao]

Anyone you met or hung out with?

[Candice Bergen]

Terry Garr was one of them.

[Chloe Mao]

Really?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

She was in your group?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I didn't know that.

[Candice Bergen]

And the prison matron who was telling us to be quiet. And she said, who does your hair?

[Chloe Mao]

No.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

To you or Terry?

[Candice Bergen]

No. Terry said that to the prison matron.

[Chloe Mao]

And what did the prison matron say?

[Candice Bergen]

She just gave her a look.

[Chloe Mao]

Did you. Was that your only time in prison?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, it was.

[Chloe Mao]

Have you ever gotten a ticket?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

For what?

[Candice Bergen]

Probably speeding on Santa Monica.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I asked because you're a very fast driver.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, it was for speeding.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, and once when I was learning to drive, my uncle was teaching me, and I rolled through a stop sign. He said, what are you doing? And I said, oh, the stop sign is just a suggestion. It's what mama says. And he was horrified.

[Candice Bergen]

I took certain liberties, but I would never do that now.

[Chloe Mao]

Sure.

[Candice Bergen]

I would never drive now.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, different conversation. How did you make certain decisions about how much I was going to be exposed to your work and celebrity? Because we recently. The Scandinavian actress Renata Rheinzva was on the podcast and she was talking about not taking her child to premieres, even though they wanted to go. And you always were very strict that I was not allowed to ever do that with you. And other people were, and I felt very excluded. But do you feel that was the right decision?

[Candice Bergen]

I did. Yes, I did. And I stand behind it.

[Chloe Mao]

I do remember you took me to the premiere of Oliver and Company, the animated Disney movie, when I was like 4, and that was very exciting.

[Candice Bergen]

That was fun.

[Chloe Mao]

We just had Alice's fourth unicorn birthday at our apartment.

[Candice Bergen]

I know.

[Chloe Mao]

You threw me amazing birthday parties. Do you remember some of the parties you threw?

[Candice Bergen]

Some of them. I do.

[Chloe Mao]

You rented a theater at Disney for my fifth birthday and played Snow White, which actually is a terrifying movie for five year olds.

[Candice Bergen]

It was terrible idea.

[Chloe Mao]

But then we came back to the house and Snow White character was there. So that was very exciting. But no, we had great parties growing up. There was a game that Andy Cohen plays on his show about have you ever met this person? And he was sort of holding up different people and you were doing it, and it made us think about different. Some of the great American designers. And I want to know if you remember the first time you wore an Oscar de la Renta dress and met Oscar?

[Candice Bergen]

Well, I'd known Oscar socially and had dinner at his and Francois's house. So I knew him and he was the most charming, the most lovely, handsome man. And so what about Ralph Lauren? Well, he was always. I mean, I've known him since he made ties. I knew him.

[Chloe Mao]

You knew him as Ralph Lipshitz?

[Candice Bergen]

No, I knew him as Ralph Lauren, but he was in Chicago.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, wow.

[Candice Bergen]

And I was working in Chicago.

[Chloe Mao]

What were you doing in Chicago?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't know. A movie. And I met him, and then he branched out needlessly. He really branched out into.

[Chloe Mao]

And you wore a lot of Ralph Lauren for a long time. You still do.

[Candice Bergen]

I love his stuff.

[Chloe Mao]

Did you ever meet Irving Penn?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes. It was not a success.

[Chloe Mao]

In what way?

[Candice Bergen]

I was booked to be photographed by Irving Penn, and he said, I can't work with her, and he released me.

[Marlee Marius]

Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

What was it for?

[Candice Bergen]

I think it was for Vogue. I don't remember. It was.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God.

[Candice Bergen]

And he said, she's not giving me anything.

[Marlee Marius]

Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

What did you say? Did you just slink out?

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was not. You didn't say anything. You just went, wow.

[Chloe Mao]

Were you bruised to the core?

[Candice Bergen]

No, but I remembered.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. When did you meet Gianni Versace?

[Candice Bergen]

I met him at a club in New York. I don't remember what he called.

[Chloe Mao]

All these clubs.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, There were, at the time, a lot of clubs. And he contacted me. He sent me flowers to your apartment and asked me if I wanted to meet them for dinner. And so I did, and he was lovely.

[Chloe Mao]

Where'd you go to dinner?

[Candice Bergen]

A club.

[Chloe Mao]

Well. And then he sent a Christmas cactus to you When I was born. As a birth gift?

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Which lasted, like, 30 years.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

Which is amazing.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

When did you first meet Giorgio Armani?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't think I ever did.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. But you wore his clothes a lot.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

What about Donna Karan?

[Candice Bergen]

I wore a lot of Donna on Murphy and loved her stuff and thought it was very flattering and cut well and I loved her suits and her dresses and Bill Blass.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, that great leopard print.

[Candice Bergen]

The leopard. The leopard.

[Chloe Mao]

Did you know him?

[Candice Bergen]

A little bit.

[Chloe Mao]

What about Hubert de Givenchy?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't think I ever met Hubert.

[Chloe Mao]

What about Valentino?

[Candice Bergen]

No. Well, I met him, but I didn't know him.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, you're gonna hate this, but you're gonna be strong.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, boy. What's coming?

[Chloe Mao]

We're playing a game of how. Like a Newlyweds game. How well we know each other.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, man.

[Chloe Mao]

We're just gonna do it so fast, and then you're gonna be so grumpy that we're gonna stop. All right. What was my first job?

[Candice Bergen]

Your first job?

[Chloe Mao]

Yes.

[Candice Bergen]

This is gonna go so poorly. Was it in New York?

[Chloe Mao]

No.

[Candice Bergen]

Was it on the set?

[Chloe Mao]

No.

[Candice Bergen]

What was it?

[Chloe Mao]

It was probably waitressing in Paris when I was living there.

[Candice Bergen]

Oh, you're right. In your red suede boots. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I loved those boots. Yep. Yeah. Okay. What's your first question?

[Candice Bergen]

Who do I think is the funniest comedian?

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I'm gonna guess right now. You think Jean Smart is a great comedian.

[Candice Bergen]

Yes, I do. I love Jean Smart.

[Chloe Mao]

And you were very impressed by Jack Black. You thought he was a great comedian.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, and I liked him. He was fun on the show.

[Chloe Mao]

What is my favorite movie to watch with Artie and Alice?

[Candice Bergen]

I don't know.

[Chloe Mao]

What's your favorite movie to watch with Artie and Alice?

[Candice Bergen]

Then we watch cartoons. We watch.

[Chloe Mao]

You watch a lot of Tom and Jerry.

[Candice Bergen]

A lot of Tom and Jerry, but there's not one dominant Tom and Jerry. So true.

[Chloe Mao]

All right, what's your next question?

[Candice Bergen]

How many times have I been on the COVID of Vogue? Next.

[Chloe Mao]

All right, what's the next question?

[Candice Bergen]

What year did I become homecoming queen? 63.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm supposed to answer. I'm supposed to see how. Whatever. Keep going.

[Candice Bergen]

But you weren't homecoming queen.

[Chloe Mao]

No. What is my favorite gift that you've ever given me?

[Candice Bergen]

A piece of jewelry.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, so many things. You're such a wonderful jewelry fairy. But I do love the bracelet that I have to get fixed that you got me for my 21st birthday with all of my nicknames engraved in it. The Aurora Lopez one. What is my favorite vacation that we've been on together?

[Candice Bergen]

Rush?

[Chloe Mao]

I did love Russia. Good job. All right, what's the next one you have?

[Candice Bergen]

What was my favorite book I read as a child?

[Chloe Mao]

I have no idea.

[Candice Bergen]

Treasure Island.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, really? Interesting. Artie would probably like that.

[Candice Bergen]

Yeah, he would. He would love it.

[Chloe Mao]

What is one stop I have to always go to when I'm in Paris?

[Candice Bergen]

The hot chocolate place.

[Chloe Mao]

Angelina, that's when I was 10.

[Candice Bergen]

Well, no. Where do you like to go?

[Chloe Mao]

I love to go to the Dries Van Noten store. I love to go to Justine's apartment. I love to go to the souffle place that the Zylkas took us to. I love to go to the Grand Picerie at the Beaumarchais. I love to get kids clothes at Monoprix. What's my favorite restaurant in New York?

[Candice Bergen]

Not Gabriel's.

[Chloe Mao]

I like Gabriel's. But that's sort of your favorite restaurant.

[Chelsea Daniel]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

I love going to Brooklyn Diner with the kids. I love the Odeon. I love Cafe Luxembourg. I love Barney Greengrass.

[Candice Bergen]

I've never been to any of those with you, so I don't know.

[Chloe Mao]

You don't like to go below 59th Street? Yes.

[Candice Bergen]

To go with you. I do.

[Chloe Mao]

Thank you, Toto, for coming on the pond and Happy Mother's Day. I'm not Toto.

[Candice Bergen]

I thought we were both Toto.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm not Toto. It's the grandparent name.

[Candice Bergen]

Okay. Thank you, Bunny. The run through with Vogue is produced

[Chloe Mao]

by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Alex

[Candice Bergen]

John Burns, with help from Emily, Emily Elias.

[Chloe Mao]

The show is engineered by Bran Bandy

[Candice Bergen]

and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Bye.

[Marlee Marius]

Comprehensive, witty, speculative.

[Chloe Mao]

Critical.

[Marlee Marius]

Insightful.

[Chloe Mao]

Profound.

[Candice Bergen]

Wide ranging.

[Chloe Mao]

Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

[Candice Bergen]

I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Chloe Mao]

Thoughtful, exquisite, just, you know, real.

[Candice Bergen]

From prx.