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Chloe Mao
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Chelsea Daniel
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Chloe Mao
This is the Run through. I'm Chloe Mao and our beloved Choma Nati is on a flight back to London which is very sad because it was a delight having her in New York. We are taping this with two other run through regulars, stalwarts Taylor Antrim, Marlee Marius. Welcome back.
Taylor Antrim
Hi Chloe.
Marlee Marius
Happy to be here.
Taylor Antrim
Slow week, right?
Chloe Mao
Woo. Guys, I have a lot of questions about Monday night and takeaways but we
Taylor Antrim
have questions for you. You had a very exciting Monday night.
Chloe Mao
I had a very exciting Monday night and we're just, you know, white knuckling it through this week.
Marlee Marius
Sure are.
Chloe Mao
A few days ahead of Mother's Day, we are airing conversation between me and my own mother, Candice Bergen that I love.
Taylor Antrim
Truly a big week to have the Met Gala and your conversation with your mother on the run through.
Chloe Mao
So yes, we were thinking as a group we were like what should we do for Mother's Day? And our producers were like, you know what, why don't you and Candice talk about motherhood?
Taylor Antrim
That's gold.
Chloe Mao
But before we get to that. We have had a big start to our crazy week. It's one of the longest weeks of the year here at vogue. It's like 24 hour days in Sweden.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah.
Marlee Marius
I think Midnight Sun. We're all living in Midnight Sun. Wow.
Chloe Mao
We had the Met Gala on Monday. For those unfamiliar, I want everyone to
Taylor Antrim
understand what a shift this is for Chloe in that she has been truly the kind of like queen, the doyen, the Tsarina of the war.
Chloe Mao
I'm looking for ringmaster, but sure, Ringmaster.
Taylor Antrim
I mean, you were dressed nicely and you had to go upstairs and be in the Met last year, but really your happy place is in the newsroom war room, where all of us are.
Chloe Mao
It's so fun to see everyone operating on all cylinders.
Taylor Antrim
And this year, tell our listeners, this year, you were explicitly barred from going downstairs and hanging out with the service staff. Yes.
Marlee Marius
The second string. Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Yeah. Anna did say, chloe, you can't hide in the basement.
Candice Bergen
This year.
Chloe Mao
Your job is upstairs.
Taylor Antrim
And honestly, the sadness that I imagine you felt in that moment was the snacks. The snacks.
Marlee Marius
The snacks that you spearheaded and that we all benefited from and were so grateful for.
Chloe Mao
I mean, Flutter Butter Bakery, Bonbon.
Taylor Antrim
Bonbon's a plenty People should understand that if they want to eat at the Met Gala, you gotta be in the basement. Honestly, there is an abundance of food. I couldn't believe it.
Marlee Marius
Piles of water, piles of sandwiches. Like, it was.
Chloe Mao
Nothing went to waste.
Marlee Marius
Nothing went to waste. Everything had a home in the ocean.
Taylor Antrim
It was shocking to me when the pizza arrived after, like, like 45 minutes after dinner.
Marlee Marius
I know.
Taylor Antrim
I was like. I was like, oh, my goodness. And I swear to God, all that pizza got eaten.
Marlee Marius
No, I know. Things are arriving in shifts. It was a long day. It was a long day. We were both.
Chloe Mao
What time does one have to arrive at the war room?
Marlee Marius
Because the streets. Sorry.
Chloe Mao
We actually call it the press room now because it doesn't feel sensitive.
Taylor Antrim
It's a little more dignified than the war room, too.
Marlee Marius
We are members of the media in the media room at the lot. Yes.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. Because all of the streets close.
Marlee Marius
Yes. It's a nightmare.
Taylor Antrim
And you have to get in before the streets close or you're not getting in.
Marlee Marius
And it's so weird.
Chloe Mao
We say in by two streets. Truly shut down at three. And they are not kidding around with security.
Marlee Marius
And before that, it's hard to navigate the streets around the Met anyway. Like, it's just streets in front of, like, the big hotels where people are staying are crowded with sort of barricades and sort of people lining up early. And it's a whole scene really navigating that part of the city. So it really does make sense for us to be there pretty early.
Chloe Mao
But that means people are there for, like, 10 hours.
Taylor Antrim
Oh, so long.
Chloe Mao
Florence is really the mastermind of the press room.
Taylor Antrim
Everyone has assigned seats.
Chloe Mao
Florence does all the credentials, all the food, and she gives everyone assigned seats based on your colleagues who you're working most closely with. It's a really highly. I mean, people think the Met seating chart is highly organized. Florence's restroom seating chart.
Marlee Marius
Our table was very close to the livestream screen, which is, like, terrible seat for me. It's there. Well, you couldn't see. And that was literally over my shoulder. It was helpful for me because I need to be closed because I can't see in general, but it was because
Chloe Mao
you won't go to the optometrist.
Marlee Marius
Okay. That's an aftermath conversation. An aftermath appointment. But yes, but it's nice because we're all kind of watching the livestream screamer at the same screaming aftermath, which is
Taylor Antrim
projected on a huge screen on one wall of the room just so people can picture this.
Chloe Mao
It's the ground floor of the Met, and it's one of the classrooms that they use for educational things. So it's. But next door, there is a huge room with our whole livestream team. And then around the corner, there's another room with our visuals team. So it's a really. It's like a rabbit warren down there of activity and the sheer tonnage. A beehive of activity and a rabbit warren.
Taylor Antrim
Okay. The tonnage of gear that is rolled in and out of there.
Marlee Marius
I know.
Chloe Mao
Crazy.
Taylor Antrim
It's incredible tonight.
Marlee Marius
It also makes it hard to get her out.
Taylor Antrim
It's like a Beyonce tour. I mean, it's like. It's nuts. I forgot about.
Chloe Mao
Taylor says Beyonce.
Taylor Antrim
Oh, God, do I still say it wrong?
Candice Bergen
Beyonce.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah, it.
Candice Bergen
Moira Rose.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah. There's like, a ton of editing to do early prepping all of those stories because.
Chloe Mao
Explain, Marlee, why there's so much editing in advance. I don't think people totally understand that.
Marlee Marius
Yeah. Well, so we begin to prepare stories about Telm that we know will show up when we have information about what they're wearing. And we think it's interesting and sort of worthy of a breakout. We start to pre write those stories, but of course, we don't receive imagery until they hit the carpet. And then later we'll maybe get additional imagery from their team. So it's a lot of preparing stories, maybe leaving some gaps for details that we don't quite know, but trying to get as many things sort of prepared and ready to go as possible so that we can just kind of deploy them once people are arriving on the carpet. Because people will start arriving very quickly. You don't quite know when it's fairly
Chloe Mao
machine like, people have completely. Our edit team spends most of the weekend before pre writing. We have like 70 stories pre written, basically.
Marlee Marius
Yeah. All in, like a nice spreadsheet.
Chloe Mao
But then there will be a curveball sometimes.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah, it was a curveball last minute. There were a couple of curveballs. Couple of them.
Marlee Marius
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Cause people change their dresses last minute. They change their makeup look.
Marlee Marius
Yeah. And so then we're like reading texts and looking at the imagery and being like, these things don't match. So what do we gotta do now?
Taylor Antrim
Lots of debates about what is a Trump loy dress. I feel like that happens every year.
Chloe Mao
No, no. But this year was particularly Trump Heav.
Taylor Antrim
Say that. And then like, God bless the literalists in our group.
Chloe Mao
Who were the literalists?
Taylor Antrim
Liam. He's like. It's French for yeah.
Marlee Marius
Okay. First of all, I made the mistake of looking at Kylie Jenner and being like, does that count as Trump? Lloyd Taylor gave me a look. So I realized that meant no. And then that turned into a whole conversation about Trump boy versus illusion.
Chloe Mao
I'm sorry. It is.
Marlee Marius
Oh, you know what I mean?
Chloe Mao
Interesting. Because Kylie, I mean, that was a fake nipple.
Marlee Marius
Yeah.
Taylor Antrim
I was like, it's just a molded nipple.
Chloe Mao
I guess it's nothing to do with Trump. Roy is like a mistake of the eye.
Marlee Marius
Well, it mistakes your eye a lot of discussion.
Taylor Antrim
So then there is the class photo at the end of the night.
Marlee Marius
Oh, geez.
Chloe Mao
Well, so I went. I go directly from dinner to.
Taylor Antrim
We haven't heard about your night at all.
Marlee Marius
Oh, my God. Oh, wait.
Taylor Antrim
We almost boring. You stood around a cocktail party for three hours. Yeah.
Chloe Mao
So many hours in the cocktail party.
Taylor Antrim
So many hours in the cocktail party. Yes, I've heard about that.
Chloe Mao
So many orbs of Caesar salad. Our producers, Alex and Chelsea were reporting live from both the red carpet at the Met and the press room and got some fabulous sound bites from our writers and celebrities alike, like Rachel Sennott, Troye Sivan.
Candice Bergen
What's the meal gonna be?
Chelsea Daniel
This is Chelsea, a producer on the Vogue podcast. I am here at the red carpet
Chloe Mao
Doja with a wave to Billboard.
Chelsea Daniel
Hi, I'm Chelsea from Vogue's podcast.
Taylor Antrim
I'm Troye Sivan.
Chelsea Daniel
How are you good?
Taylor Antrim
How are you?
Chelsea Daniel
What are you wearing tonight?
Taylor Antrim
Tonight I'm wearing Prada. A beautiful coat and some blue jeans and an antiqued white shirt and some cowboy boots and a little leather tie.
Chelsea Daniel
What took the longest today to get ready for you? The hair is amazing.
Taylor Antrim
Thank you very much. We actually did a little hair test the other day. It's my first time doing a hair test.
Chelsea Daniel
Okay.
Taylor Antrim
And so it was quick. It was kind of like we knew the vibe. We were like, this is good.
Chloe Mao
Let's just do that.
Taylor Antrim
And so I've been very not stressed today. It's been super nice.
Candice Bergen
My name is Alexa Chung.
Chloe Mao
I'm wearing Dior, and I've got headgear on.
Chelsea Daniel
Tell me about your look today.
Chloe Mao
So it's based off of Baldessari, an LA based artist.
Chelsea Daniel
It's made by Marc Jacobs, and it's
Chloe Mao
sort of like making the shape of,
Chelsea Daniel
you know, shape, fashion, women, body, whatever,
Chloe Mao
with circles, bold, primary colors. And my big plan is to blow a bubble on the carpet, but I
Chelsea Daniel
have been chewing gum for two hours
Chloe Mao
because I've been waiting. So let's hope it works.
Chelsea Daniel
Can you say your name for the podcast?
Taylor Antrim
Zac Posen.
Chelsea Daniel
Do you want to describe your look or look? Both. Both.
Taylor Antrim
Oh, well, we're inspired by the draping of the winged Victory of samurais. You know, 190bc, Hellenistic gown. Amazing moment of realism and fantasy.
Chelsea Daniel
Okay, now I'm gonna speak to Odessa Azian. She looks fabulous, and she's coming my way. Can I say hi to Vogue's podcast?
Candice Bergen
Hi, Vogue's podcast.
Chloe Mao
What's going on? I'm wearing Valentino.
Chelsea Daniel
Tell me how this corset. This is like you're. You're sucked in today.
Chloe Mao
Yeah.
Marlee Marius
Really?
Chelsea Daniel
How are you breathing?
Candice Bergen
I'm not.
Chloe Mao
I'm. That's why I'm trying to rush onto the carpet so I could get out of the corset.
Chelsea Daniel
Can I ask you just about your
Candice Bergen
face, which I know is not healthy.
Chelsea Daniel
That's okay.
Chloe Mao
Yeah, I know that's not healthy, and it is obviously not something I do
Candice Bergen
on the regular, but it Fashion's art.
Chelsea Daniel
This is Alexandra De Palma, also a producer on the podcast. I am stationed here in Vogue, so press room at the Met. I am grabbing a few of my colleagues to ask what the vibe is, hear what looks they're excited for, and talk about some of their past experiences covering the Met. And next to me is friend of the pod, Taylor Antrim.
Taylor Antrim
Hello. The vibe is very. The red carpet is about to start, but we've had some arrivals. It's been fun. Everyone likes sort of like shouting out who they're seeing.
Chelsea Daniel
Whose looks are you most excited for tonight?
Taylor Antrim
Well, Nicole Kibben already showed up. She always looks really good. I thought Chase Tui Wonders looked really good, too.
Chelsea Daniel
Well, stay tuned because she's going to be on the podcast episode later.
Taylor Antrim
That's right. That's right. No, but that was. Honestly, I just thought she looked great.
Chloe Mao
My name is Emma Spector and I am a culture writer for Vogue's website.
Marlee Marius
This is Marlee Maris reporting live from the Met basement.
Chelsea Daniel
What's the vibe?
Marlee Marius
Honestly, it's good. Everyone's working away little worker bees. Everyone's plugged in, everyone's locked in. So good things are happening here. We're making magic happen, as usual.
Chloe Mao
Do not use that fun chaos, I would say, but like managed fun chaos.
Chelsea Daniel
What are you doing tonight?
Chloe Mao
I am trying to support my brilliant colleagues as they slayer fashion, beauty and culture coverage. And I'm also doing some of that. I liked getting to write about Jisoo making her Dior debut. Katy Perry's wild little mask that I want more details on. And I love Sarah Pigeon and I
Chelsea Daniel
want to say Loewe.
Chloe Mao
Yeah, everyone, Lena Dunham and Valentino. It's all happening.
Chelsea Daniel
We're also here with the queen of everything.
Chloe Mao
Hi, this is Flo.
Candice Bergen
Hi.
Chelsea Daniel
What has been the most stressful thing that's happened in your time working at
Chloe Mao
the Met Gala last year? I had a couple people try to say that they were on my credentials list and break in. And that was rather stressful because I had to turn these people away, which I knew I had to do, but also felt very awkward doing it.
Taylor Antrim
The most stressful thing was definitely last year because we had a little bit of a technical issue and it was like you could feel the stress simmering around the edges of the room. And I knew about it. A few other people knew about it. But, you know, most people keep their game faces on and plow through it.
Chelsea Daniel
Are you going to go to any after parties?
Chloe Mao
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Candice Bergen
Go night night.
Chloe Mao
I went too hard at pre med. Still recovering. After dinner. There's a robust text chain at the end when Stevie Nicks is still singing Landslide. And I have Chelsea, our producer, texting me, where's Chase? Dewey wonders. And I was like, I have eyes on her. She went across the room and grabbed A$AP Rocky to say hello. Cause they're working on a project together. She couldn't explain.
Taylor Antrim
You heard it here.
Chloe Mao
So then I was like, I. And then me, Chase and Choma and our Met escort brought us down to the true basement, which is the Costume Institute's headquarters. And it's also like the mannequin graveyard. It's where they keep all the old mannequins. So you're just, like, surrounded by creepy mannequins.
Taylor Antrim
You've been in two creepy mannequin rooms within a week. Madame Tussauds, too.
Marlee Marius
Well, this is the air for it.
Taylor Antrim
Anyway, you're potting with chase tutti wonders.
Chloe Mao
Chase 2. We go to pod in the costume Institute, which was very fun. And then I have Taylor Antrim calling me, Florence calling me, and I'm like, chelsea, what's happening?
Taylor Antrim
We were all assembled on the steps, Anna included, and the entire Vogue staff that's been working all night. We take this sort of class photo at the end of the night, and who isn't there? Chloe Moll.
Marlee Marius
But please understand, we were standing on the steps for about 10 minutes in absolute silence, waiting for you.
Chloe Mao
I ran upstairs in the middle of
Taylor Antrim
our videotaped podcast to great cheers from the whole crowd.
Chloe Mao
Yeah, that was very nice.
Taylor Antrim
Thrilled to see. We took pictures. And then that was the end of the night for me. But not for you, too.
Chloe Mao
But I did change behind Florence's back into my after party dress.
Taylor Antrim
The classic Chloe move.
Chloe Mao
Well, because I tried to change Florence being tiny.
Taylor Antrim
Everyone, let's just establish.
Marlee Marius
Chloe was like, let me open this curtain and see if I can go back here. There were absolutely 10 men.
Chloe Mao
I was like, not there.
Marlee Marius
I'm so sorry. Gentle.
Chloe Mao
So then Marley Graham and I went to the GQ after party.
Marlee Marius
Yes.
Chloe Mao
And arrived with Colman Domingo, who was so happy to be reunited with Marlee Marios, who wrote his cover story, was
Marlee Marius
so excited to be reunited with you after your intimate dinner over the weekend. Sure, sure, sure. That was fun.
Taylor Antrim
But if you really want to read about after parties, you should read our franchise story. I went to every single after party. This year's written by fearless Eileen Kelly. Yeah.
Marlee Marius
Who seemed to have snuck into a lot of parties. That's all we'll say.
Taylor Antrim
She says she has a skill at doing that.
Marlee Marius
Indeed.
Taylor Antrim
I believe that the thing about Eileen's piece, which was true of iterations of this piece in the past, is by trying to go to all the parties, you get to some of them way too early. And it's this, like, excruciating experience of standing in a chic afterparty and being the only one there. So she had, like, two or three of those. It finally pops off when she gets to. Gosh, some party where Sabrina Carpenter is eating a hamburger and french fries with Stevie Nicks. With Stevie Nicks. And I was like, okay, she's achieved.
Marlee Marius
Wow.
Chloe Mao
I also want to say that we had a big pre Met weekend which was extremely full from our Vogue Cafe at Ultra Tripera Diso with Chase Sapphire, which was so much fun. We had so many fun activities and delicious pastries and also so many pre Met parties on Saturday and our fabulous pre Met cast and crew party on Friday night at Madame Tussauds. It was amazing, which was our colleague Katie Noel's brilliant idea and was so freaky and cuckoo. Seeing Somber posing with Audrey Hepburn is something I shan't soon forget.
Marlee Marius
The number of people who had a jump scare from Whoopi Goldberg of all people. Whoopi Goldberg was freaking me out a thousand times.
Taylor Antrim
Every time I looked, she was staring at me.
Chloe Mao
We're moving on, moving on. The world continues to turn. Marlee, tell us about Tony nominations which came out at 9am after the Met.
Marlee Marius
Yeah, that was great timing.
Chloe Mao
Tony's great timing out here at 7am on Tuesday morning. And we're just working away. And then at 8:52 she goes, Tony.
Marlee Marius
Yes, deeply. However, we're very excited about some of the nominees because it's a lot of shows that we covered in book. It's a lot of shows that we covered online. The Dear John Lithgow was nominated for his performance in Giant and Giant's also nominated for best play. Rocky Horror show got a nomination.
Chloe Mao
A good set designer for Rocky Horror, who I love Dots got a nom.
Marlee Marius
Dot's is amazing and I feel like they're. They probably have a thousand Tonys, but they do amazing work and yes, they were nominated. Ragtime was one of the most nominated shows of the year. And we did a big story on that show and it's amazing.
Chloe Mao
So I mean, Andre De Shields from
Marlee Marius
Cats, he sure did. And Cats also is nominated for best revival of a musical. So it's really exciting. This season has been really fun and really wide range of entertainments, let's say kind of every kind of theatergoer, I think, has something to be excited about. Death of. From Death of a Salesman to Titanique. There's a lot to do. There's lots to do.
Taylor Antrim
What are you gonna be rooting for?
Marlee Marius
I think the best theater experience I had this season was at Death of a Salesman. But there were lots of other shows, honestly, that I enjoyed as well. Like David Lindsay Aber play the Ballisters, which is actually based on. It's like based on a Sort of community board group. There are. Yeah, there are lots of good shows. So it's gonna be an exciting ceremony on June 7th, and we will sure be covering it.
Chloe Mao
So, Taylor, I cannot believe it, but the Cannes Film Festival starts next Tuesday.
Taylor Antrim
I know, and I love reading all the reviews. I won't be there, but our colleague Radhika Seth from Birche Vogue goes. And she has very particular tastes that I always love hearing what she thinks about movies.
Chloe Mao
Yeah, you guys have sort of overlapping, like, creepy tastes.
Taylor Antrim
She's even creepier than me. She's a bit of a freak. She out creeps me. It's great. I'm excited about three. I mean, it's very art house this year. There's nary a blockbuster in sight. Like, this is really kind of for the film nerds among us. But I'm excited about Fjord, which is Christian Moonjoo's new movie. His last movie was called rmn, which I thought was really fascinating. And this one stars Sebastian Stan and Renata Renzva.
Marlee Marius
Friend of the pod.
Taylor Antrim
Friend of the pod. And we love this because our colleague Liam Hess was covering, like, Chic Hotel in the wilds of Norway, and he was slacking us. He was like, you guys, Renata and Sebastian Stan are here. Are they, like, having a thing? And actually, it was just the wrap party for this very film. Fjord, I thought you were gonna say
Chloe Mao
Liam became an extra.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah, that's the next ch. Jane Schoenbrunn, who is a very interesting sort of quasi horror filmmaker, has a third film called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, which is premiering at Cannes and then will be in limited theaters here in August. And it looks super cool. It stars Hannah Einbinder, who I've never seen because I've never watched hacks, but this will be my entree into the world of Einbinder. I'm excited.
Marlee Marius
She rocks.
Taylor Antrim
And also Gillian Anderson doing a ludicrous southern accent in the trailer sounds awesome. But their movies are really surreal and sort of creep. And I enjoy them, even though I haven't loved loved any of them. I saw the TV Glow being the last one, and then this is really just for the heads out there. But 10 years after his last film, Nicholas Winding, Refn has a movie coming to Cannes called Her Private Hell. And it's got Sophie Thatcher, who we like a lot. We all saw her in yellow jackets and in that sort of.
Marlee Marius
She's kind of a scream queen, right?
Taylor Antrim
Kind of a scream queen. She was in Heretic, which was like a super good with Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant movie, you know, And Nicholas Winding Refn. I mean, Drive is the canonical film from him as far as I'm concerned with Ryan Gosling. We all remember that from however many years ago. But he's just extremely atmospheric and sort of, you know, very dark filmmaker. And I'm very excited for that. So those are my three.
Chloe Mao
I'm very excited for the fashion. Always a big moment. Choma had the great call that she wants to see the Chanel naked foot shoe on the Cannes red carpet because that would be against protocol.
Taylor Antrim
Yeah.
Marlee Marius
And we took a wild guess that Kristen Stewart's gonna be wearing that shoe. She loves a weird Chanel moment at Cannes. Can't wait.
Chloe Mao
I'm heading to LA next week for Jonath Anderson's Dior cruise show, which is happening on May 13th at LACMA. And then that following weekend, Gucci is in New York. And then the following week, Vuitton is in New York. So big, big resort energy. But I'm very excited to go to la. I'm very excited to have sort of two days, you know, in a hotel without my children. And I love living the dream. I love just sort of bopping around la. Obviously I grew up there and so did my mother, who we will now be onto our conversation with Candace.
Taylor Antrim
Great segue.
Marlee Marius
Good job.
Chloe Mao
Which we talk about her childhood, my childhood, her career, her time modeling at Vogue and her motherhood advice for me what she feel, you know, thoughts about being a grandmother. I'm also celebrating her 80th birthday this weekend.
Taylor Antrim
Magician's galore, right?
Chloe Mao
We do. We have a magician. 50 people at Maximes.
Marlee Marius
Oh, my God.
Chloe Mao
We're working on the seating chart now. Really fun to go for metal to CB80.
Marlee Marius
That's major.
Chloe Mao
That's major. Well, yeah, we have a mentalist coming who does card tricks and we also got cards for everyone.
Marlee Marius
Wow.
Taylor Antrim
So exciting.
Chloe Mao
The run through will be back with me and my mother, Candice Bergen, after this quick break. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford.
Chelsea Daniel
And I'm John Ross.
Chloe Mao
And we're the hosts of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers.
Chelsea Daniel
And just because the Oscars are done
Chloe Mao
for now doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood, interviews with today's brightest stars, and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform. In a simple and affordable way, you can save money without missing out on
Candice Bergen
the features you need.
Chloe Mao
Check out Odoo at O D O O dot com. That's O D O O dot com. Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send your money abroad with your everyday bank? Choose the smart way Wise. You can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google. No unwelcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money Feeling. Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart, get wise. Download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply. How are you doing, Toto?
Candice Bergen
I'm good.
Chloe Mao
Are you so excited to be here?
Candice Bergen
So excited.
Chloe Mao
Do you love the traffic?
Candice Bergen
Love? I can't get enough traffic.
Chloe Mao
Did you come here last time you did the podcast, or was it by Zoom?
Candice Bergen
I don't remember.
Chloe Mao
Seriously?
Candice Bergen
No.
Chloe Mao
You did it with Sarah Jessica Parker around in. Just like that.
Candice Bergen
Well, that was years ago, honey.
Chloe Mao
Like two.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, two years ago. And I don't think we came here,
Chloe Mao
but I. Oh, SJP was on Zoom. You were here.
Candice Bergen
Ah. Well, thank you.
Chloe Mao
And you loved it.
Candice Bergen
I loved it.
Chloe Mao
Well, no, clearly not. This is our Mother's Day episode, okay? And it's all about what we learn from our mothers. And you are turning 80.
Candice Bergen
Oh, God, honey.
Chloe Mao
The day after Mother's Day. What do you mean, oh, God? Honey, you just gave two interviews about it, AARP and PP. That was your newspag, and you told AARP turning 80 isn't what it used to be.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, but it's still 80.
Chloe Mao
Why is it not what it used to be?
Candice Bergen
Well, because we've extended these deadlines. I mean, turning 40, we extended to 60. And 60, we extended to 80. And so we've given and we've given life extensions and life to these major birthdays that used to mean. I mean, really, when I was in school, turning 30 was, like, the end of your life.
Chloe Mao
Wow.
Candice Bergen
30?
Chloe Mao
Really?
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
Because why you were done, like, childbearing.
Candice Bergen
I don't know. There was no reason. I was, like, in seventh or eighth grade, but it was like, oh, she's 30. You know, she's almost dead.
Chloe Mao
Interesting. When I. Greta, I observed the Greta Gerwig interview with Anna and Meryl. Greta was saying that she Finds it very impressive that Meryl and Anna are still women in the full of their power, even though they're past childbearing age. Because typically, historically, women's power was only about their ability to have children. And once they pass that zone, we
Candice Bergen
were no longer of use.
Chloe Mao
Exactly. Do you feel powerful?
Candice Bergen
I feel like I'm grateful for the extension.
Chloe Mao
How old was Franu when she died?
Candice Bergen
84.
Chloe Mao
She was an old 80. That felt different.
Candice Bergen
I mean, she looked great, but she was old.
Chloe Mao
Franu is what I called my grandmother Toto's mother. And Toto is what my children call Candace.
Candice Bergen
I love it.
Chloe Mao
One day when artie was about 18 months old, he said tau toe, and it stuck. What are you doing for your birthday, which is the day before Mother's Day?
Candice Bergen
I don't know.
Chloe Mao
Can.
Candice Bergen
I was relying on you to come up with something.
Chloe Mao
You don't know what you're doing.
Candice Bergen
Well, I'm having a party the day before.
Chloe Mao
So you do know.
Candice Bergen
Well, the day before, but not my actual birthday.
Chloe Mao
Okay, well, what are you doing for your general birthday?
Candice Bergen
My general birthday? I'm having 50 people to a club.
Chloe Mao
Not a nightclub.
Candice Bergen
No, a club. A dinner club. And there are 50 people that I'm close to. You'll make a speech.
Chloe Mao
It's a really relaxing, easy week for me. I won't be tired at all after not sleeping Monday and Tuesday.
Candice Bergen
True, but you can do it. Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Yes. Candice's birthday and Mother's Day are always right after the Met Gala, so it's really fun. And then Artie's birthday is the next week.
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
So we're working on CB80 and Artie 6.
Candice Bergen
Yes. And we can combine me with Artie and push it a week.
Chloe Mao
Ken, are you crazy? We've had this booked for months.
Candice Bergen
Okay.
Chloe Mao
Also, he's having a bounce house. Oh, these are different parties. Is just my point.
Candice Bergen
I could be in a bounce house.
Chloe Mao
Okay. What is your dream Mother's Day?
Candice Bergen
Frankly, just being in the country with you and my grandkids is.
Chloe Mao
I was trying to think, what have we done historically on Mother's Day? Not much. Except for.
Candice Bergen
Well, you've done a lot for me by having kids. I never would have asked you to have kids, but I was so grateful that you did.
Chloe Mao
You always say this. I never asked. And yet.
Candice Bergen
And yet I made up for it.
Chloe Mao
What did you do with Frannu growing up for Mother's Day? Was Mother's Day a thing when you were little, or was it a Hallmark holiday?
Candice Bergen
It was a Hallmark holiday, so there
Chloe Mao
was no celebrating No, I mean, you'd
Candice Bergen
do a card, you'll do flowers, you'd. I mean, dinner in the dining room.
Chloe Mao
Last time you were on the podcast, it was with Sarah Jessica Parker to talk about playing Enid Frick. Reprised. Enid Frick was a Vogue editor on Sex and City, both the series and the movie. And people on the Internet were very quick to point out that Enid's role was similar to my new role at Vogue. What do you think about that?
Candice Bergen
Well, I think that's true.
Chloe Mao
What could Enid teach us?
Candice Bergen
How to dress, basically. But you're doing so well. You know, Enid was. Enid was really fun to play. And she was a little frosty and aloof. So you don't have that at all. Thank God. But. But it was sort of fun to play.
Chloe Mao
Your first Vogue cover was in 1967. Do you remember this?
Candice Bergen
I sort of do.
Chloe Mao
It was. You had a big bouffant.
Candice Bergen
I had so many hairpieces. I had, like, 40 hairpieces.
Chloe Mao
Then you. Did you leave wearing the hairpieces and walk around with them in? No. Or you had them taken all out?
Candice Bergen
I had them all taken out.
Chloe Mao
I sort of like when people leave shoots with their hair in from.
Candice Bergen
But it's not theirs.
Chloe Mao
Oh, that's true. Cause they're expensive.
Candice Bergen
Yeah. And you can't just walk out with
Chloe Mao
it with thousands of dollars worth of wands.
Candice Bergen
Yeah. Thousands of dollars of hair.
Chloe Mao
You're so conscientious.
Candice Bergen
I am conscientious.
Chloe Mao
It was the COVID and it was sort of you leaning forward with a big bouffant of hair pieces. And it was called the American woman in 1967. Shot by Bert Stern.
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Do you remember anything about that shoot?
Candice Bergen
I remember I liked Bert Stern a lot. He had a great sense of humor. He was very smart and fun to work with. I remember we went to a club afterward with him. We met his wife. What club? I don't know.
Chloe Mao
A club like Studio 54. Like the Cosmopolitan Club?
Candice Bergen
No, there was a club called the Club, and it was a small place over on the east side. And it was very intimate, and it was fun.
Chloe Mao
Okay. Actually, I went Studio 54 last night for Rocky Horror.
Candice Bergen
Really?
Chloe Mao
With Sam Cochran. And we were marveling how close it is to 222. Did you used to go to Studio 54 a lot?
Candice Bergen
Absolutely not. Never once. Once, yeah.
Chloe Mao
With who?
Candice Bergen
I don't even know. I went with a group of people. I was overwhelmed.
Chloe Mao
You don't remember anything else?
Candice Bergen
I just remember there was so much going on. Bianca Was there Jagger on a horse? No, she was not on a horse that night, but there might have been a horse there unattached to Bianca. But, I mean, there was just so much happening that it was clearly a place I didn't belong.
Chloe Mao
Why?
Candice Bergen
I was just overwhelmed.
Chloe Mao
But you did go to the club with Bert Stern. Do you remember other times shooting for Vogue?
Candice Bergen
Yeah, I remember. With Avedon. Shooting a few times. I love Dick Avedon.
Chloe Mao
Always in studio or ever on location?
Candice Bergen
No, with Avedon always in studio.
Chloe Mao
Who's the photographer who you've been most inspired by? The way they work?
Candice Bergen
My friend, Mary Ellen Mark, who is no longer with us, but who was a great photojournalist, and I met her in college. She was a few years older than I was, but she was already a photographer and a very good one, and was very generous with what she'd learned and taught me how to print.
Chloe Mao
Did she inspire you to become a photojournalist?
Candice Bergen
Yes, but at the time, photojournalism was getting a cachet, a sort of energy to it, and it was being discovered and photojournalists were being discovered, so it was kind of like a new medium.
Chloe Mao
Because then you started working. Did you ever work for one magazine completely or you were taking assignments for different magazines?
Candice Bergen
No, I just freelance assignments.
Chloe Mao
Well, we were just talking about when you shot for Women's Home Journal with Jane Goodall, who died last year, and you stayed with her for a week. Right. Or longer than that. Ten days in Tanzania on Lake Gombe. What were your living accommodations?
Candice Bergen
They were very simple. I had a. Jane lived. I lived in the guest hut, and Jane lived in another hut further down the beach. We were both on the beach of the lake, Lake Tanganyika, actually. And I just had a hut. There was no sink. It was a window and four walls and a door with a heavy screen. Because in the morning, I had a couple of bananas on my nightstand for dinner. And the baboons would come in the morning and rattle the door to get to the bananas.
Chloe Mao
Because they could smell the bananas or they could see them?
Candice Bergen
Yes, because they could smell the bananas.
Chloe Mao
Wow.
Candice Bergen
And they wanted them.
Chloe Mao
So what.
Taylor Antrim
How did.
Candice Bergen
And so did I. So I threw the bananas. I opened the door a crack and I threw the bananas down the beach. And then when they ran to get the bananas, I escaped and I ran in the opposite direction to the camp.
Chloe Mao
So you didn't get your bananas?
Candice Bergen
No, I didn't, but I got other bananas because we had a lot of bananas. That's what we ate.
Chloe Mao
What was the daily Routine like for Jane?
Candice Bergen
Well, she would follow the chimps. Okay.
Chloe Mao
And baboons, or just chimps.
Candice Bergen
No, she was not a BAB person. In order for Jane to get funding for her research station, which she needed to fund, she had to agree with Stanford to accept a certain small amount of students who were studying that kind of biology, animal biology. So some of the students were BAB students, which was not considered these.
Chloe Mao
That was the lesser.
Candice Bergen
It was a lesser group. It was like sort of you didn't want to belong to the BAB group, even though the babs were more interesting because they were lively and they moved around.
Chloe Mao
They were livelier than chimpanzees.
Candice Bergen
Oh, yeah. Chimpanzees would sit for hours and groom. They would pick fleas off each other and eat them like Ritz crackers. And so it was much more lazy and relaxing to be a chimp person, even though they were at the top of the heap.
Chloe Mao
So Jane Goodall was a chimp person and she would only do chimps. But the other Stanford students that she liked less were the bab people.
Candice Bergen
I don't know that she chose the people to go in those groups, and I don't think she would have expressed favoritism in that way. But, yes, there was a definite sort of we look down on the bab people.
Chloe Mao
Well, I was interested reading the article because you talk about how Jane borrowed parenting techniques from the baboons and the chimpanzees. What were those?
Candice Bergen
Well, for instance, she had her son, Grub. Grublin, I think his full name was, and he grew up on Lake Tanganyika and he didn't have any other kids there. So he would play often with chimps and babs and he would branch wave, which is a classic sort of chimp courtship. And so I would see Grub sort of branch waving at a chimp down the beach.
Chloe Mao
Where's Grub now?
Candice Bergen
Well, he's probably 50 or more.
Chloe Mao
Did that give you any insight into parenting?
Candice Bergen
No. You've got guts.
Chloe Mao
Were you ever regretful that you stopped doing photojournalism?
Candice Bergen
You know, I wasn't good enough to keep doing it and to do it at the level I wanted to do it, but I loved when I was doing it. And I worked for the Today show, which I love, because I would do a different piece every week. I did the Ku Klux Klan and the Muhammad Ali, who was really interesting and fun to do. And I did sort of who I wanted, which was great.
Chloe Mao
And you're supposed to be doing a
Candice Bergen
book of your photos Am I?
Chloe Mao
How's that going? It was due during COVID Yeah.
Candice Bergen
Yeah. I was just looking at the pages today and thinking, oh, God, I better get moving on this.
Chloe Mao
That poor editor.
Chelsea Daniel
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
I'm so grateful it's not me.
Candice Bergen
Yes, I know. Me too.
Chloe Mao
And you know what else I just realized that you were on the COVID of Playboy when I was 4.
Candice Bergen
Chloe, I was on the COVID of Playboy fully dressed. I was in like a tuxedo.
Chloe Mao
I know they were known for their articles at the time. Yeah, I'm just saying. Didn't register that as a four year old.
Candice Bergen
It's nothing. I would have volunteered.
Chloe Mao
Well, but in it, I was very amused that in the interview you talked about how much you respect Diane Sawyer and that she was someone that you really looked up to as a woman working in journalism. And now she's one of your closest friends. Yeah. So you could show her that centerfold. Do you remember other women at that time that you looked up to as women whose careers you wanted to emulate?
Candice Bergen
I remember Katie Couric was someone
Chelsea Daniel
who
Candice Bergen
was very appealing and very smart. And then she started her own company and it ran like clockwork. And I always was very impressed by Katie Couric.
Chloe Mao
And also in that interview, which I'd never heard before, you said that, Edgar, your father used to say all beautiful women he knew were unhappy.
Candice Bergen
He said more than that. He said they get in trouble and who are unhappy. And so he said, I want you to always focus on your other interests and. Which I ultimately did.
Chloe Mao
Interesting. The run through will be back in a moment.
Chelsea Daniel
I'm Jessie Sevcyk. And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic. And we're senior Test Kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers. We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive.
Candice Bergen
And we love to talk about all
Chelsea Daniel
the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it. Every month, we publish a recipe on bon appetit.com that introduces a baking concept we think you should know. Then you'll go bake, send us any
Candice Bergen
questions you have, and we'll get together
Chelsea Daniel
here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And this.
Chloe Mao
This month, we're making strawberry roll cake.
Chelsea Daniel
It is the unofficial birthday cake of the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen, and it is the perfect way to welcome spring. Head to ba.com and come and bake along with us. Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclubon appetit.com or find us on the substack. Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake find, Ba Bake Club, wherever you get your podcasts. Happy birthday. Baking.
Chloe Mao
Are you going to read Liza Minnelli's story?
Candice Bergen
I've read it.
Chloe Mao
You did?
Candice Bergen
Yeah. And I've known Liza since I was 7, and so I read it right
Chloe Mao
away, and I love that. Vincent Minnelli, Liza's father, who is a wonderful director, used to have miniature versions of all the costumes for his movies made for Liza to dress up in with her friends.
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
Which now when I see these sort of polyester belle dresses that Alice gets.
Candice Bergen
That's not what Liza very.
Chloe Mao
This was Edith Head. What role? In Her Grave. Really? They were.
Candice Bergen
Edith had miniatures.
Chloe Mao
Oh, my God. So what would you dress up as? Which characters? Honey, you can do it.
Candice Bergen
No, I can't. I don't know. Someone from Gone with the Wind or.
Chloe Mao
He didn't direct Gone with the Wind.
Candice Bergen
He didn't have to. He could just pick things out of movies.
Chloe Mao
Gigi, was Liza one of the people that you would go to the Beverly Hills Coffee Shop with?
Candice Bergen
No.
Chloe Mao
Okay.
Candice Bergen
I went with Roxie Johnson.
Chelsea Daniel
Okay.
Candice Bergen
Her father was Nunneley Johnson, who wrote the man in the Gray Flannel Suit. He was a writer.
Chloe Mao
I don't know what that is.
Candice Bergen
It was a great movie, a great classic at the time. And he was a writer, director, very educated, interesting, funny guy. And Roxy I haven't seen for 100 years, but she.
Chloe Mao
But you used to walk your. Or bike down to the Beverly Hills Hotel with your dogs, which sounds so dangerous.
Candice Bergen
Well, you know, it was. Beverly Hills was different then. There wasn't this sort of crush of cars.
Chloe Mao
Was that when you were riding your horse down Sunset or. That was Edgar.
Candice Bergen
No, that was Edgar.
Chloe Mao
You're not that old. But that's amazing that he. That Sunset Boulevard, you could ride horses.
Candice Bergen
He would ride down Sunset and he would ride down Rodeo, which has a lovely divider. Or had. And. Yeah. He would ride down Sunset to the beach.
Chloe Mao
Wow. That is unbelievable.
Candice Bergen
Well, la in the old days, in the 30s and 40s was a different place.
Chloe Mao
Well, yeah, but I mean, that's really. You know, everyone has been talking about JFK junior On Murphy Brown.
Candice Bergen
That soundstage when he did the Murphy Brown, he did it to promote George, which was his magazine that was then coming, had the first issue coming out and you couldn't get in the stage because the women from all over the Warner Brothers lot were clogging the doorways. It was like.
Chloe Mao
And was he very charming?
Candice Bergen
He was so charming and so modest and so handsome. God, he was handsome and he was a lovely guy.
Chloe Mao
What was his role on Murphy Brown?
Candice Bergen
He played my assistant for a quick
Chloe Mao
minute, which was one of the running.
Candice Bergen
Yes. Which was one of the running gags on the show.
Chloe Mao
Many people played Murphy's assistant. We just went to the SNL taping last couple of weeks ago.
Candice Bergen
Yes, you did.
Chloe Mao
Where you inducted Jack Black into the Five Timers Club. Five Timers Club is people who have hosted Saturday Night Live five times. And you and Tina Fey are, as Lorne Michaels says, local hires. So whenever he needs someone inducted, you're his first port of call. But you were the first woman to host snl, which at the time, I'm sure you didn't feel like as big a deal. Cause it had just started.
Candice Bergen
I did the third show. Wow.
Chloe Mao
What did people think of it back then?
Candice Bergen
You know, it took a while for the show to be discovered. I think Paul Simon hosted the first show, which was a Thanksgiving show. And he was dressed as a turkey and sang Still Crazy After All These Years, which I thought was brilliant. And then I did the third show, and of course, it was the purest terror. Lauren said I look like Patty Hearst. When she opened the door to the sla. It was like,
Chloe Mao
who was on the cast then? The first cast.
Candice Bergen
Gilda.
Chloe Mao
Okay.
Candice Bergen
Gilda Radner, John Belushi, Chevy Chase, Danny Aykroyd.
Chloe Mao
Do you remember any of your Garrett Morris first sketches?
Candice Bergen
No, honey.
Chloe Mao
Yes, you do. Like the bee in Rock Center.
Candice Bergen
Yes, I do remember the bees. That was maybe the second show I did. Yes.
Chloe Mao
Okay, can you tell us about that?
Candice Bergen
Well, we did a sketch where we. I was dressed as Sonya Henney in her figure in a sort of red velvet with feathers on the bottom and ice skates. And we did a Bee Capades. And the other cast members were dressed as bees, of course. And we just skated around, flailing. Cause none of us could really skate. But there was the ice rink right below the studio. So we used it. We, Lauren used it. And that was it.
Chloe Mao
And then you dressed me as a bee. As one of my first Halloween costumes in a full arc.
Candice Bergen
That's right.
Chloe Mao
I had amazing Halloween costumes. You did. The costume designer for Murphy Brown would make my Halloween costumes.
Candice Bergen
I remember.
Chloe Mao
Not unlike Vincent Minnelli. You really used.
Candice Bergen
You flexed your power. That's right.
Chloe Mao
Yeah. She made me a great Lucille Ball
Candice Bergen
costume once I remember that.
Chloe Mao
That was sort of a. And Shane, my poor friend Shane had to be Athol.
Candice Bergen
She was really a good sport because it didn't do her any favors.
Chloe Mao
Well, she was 7. But, yes, my Halloween costumes were very high value.
Candice Bergen
They were. They were.
Chloe Mao
I would go. If she didn't make it herself, she would take me to the Warner Brothers costume stage and look for tiny versions of things. I loved going to the Murphy set when I was little, and I would.
Candice Bergen
You thought it was an office.
Chloe Mao
Yeah. And I would explore sort of all the dark tunnels and things. Sort of.
Candice Bergen
And you climb up the ladders. You'd be on the rig. Ugh. It was insane that I let you do that.
Chloe Mao
And Lois would come.
Candice Bergen
She wouldn't do that.
Chloe Mao
No, but she would come a lot, which is insane that you also did that. Lois was our dog.
Candice Bergen
Yes, Our great dog.
Chloe Mao
Well, I know, but I just, you know, on a soundstage. I don't know that most soundstages let people bring their dogs.
Candice Bergen
No, but we were a very successful show, and Warner Brothers was resting on our laurels at the moment, so I took full advantage.
Chloe Mao
I also felt like it was a great example of. You were very much. It was a nice family that Murphy had.
Candice Bergen
Yes, lovely.
Chloe Mao
And you were a great leader of that. But also other people really led that in a lovely way. And you're still in touch with so many of those people.
Candice Bergen
I'm still close friends with Diane English, who created and wrote Murphy Brown. She wrote the First Four Years, and I'm friendly. I love Faithy Ford and I love Joe Rigal Buto. But I haven't seen him in Grant. Grant Shaw, I love. And he's sort of in some place in the depths of Pennsylvania, but
Chloe Mao
says someone who's never been to Pennsylvania.
Candice Bergen
He went to school.
Chloe Mao
Oh, that's true.
Candice Bergen
Briefly.
Chloe Mao
Did you feel like you were always sort of leading on a set you were on? I asked this because when I recently interviewed Meryl with Anna, Greta Gerwig said that Meryl is always such a great leader on sets. And she said, I try to be. Except when I did a movie with Candace. When I did a movie with Candace, she and Dianne Wiest ganged up on me. She said it was like wrestling, and I loved it. So I guess that's. You're just sort of leaning in when you're on set. Well, sometimes on shrinking, which you were just on briefly. Who was the leader of the shrinking set?
Candice Bergen
It was a fairly equitable set. I mean, it was Harrison Ford, it was Jason Segel, and they were lovely. It was a lovely set to work
Chloe Mao
on Christa Miller, who we knew way back when. Cause she used to date Grant Shaw when they were both kids. So that was very fun to sort of rediscover her later in life. What were your non negotiables with Warner Brothers about when you would be available to do parenting stuff?
Candice Bergen
Say what?
Chloe Mao
Like, I now am always figuring out how much I'm going to say no to things at work. I'm gonna take the kids to school, but it means I'm gonna get in at 9:30, which is late. I'm gonna leave at 5:30 so I can be home by 6. But then I do feel like then I have to get back online at 8pm when the kids go to bed. But there are certain things that are my non negotiables that I want to be there for.
Candice Bergen
I would be there every morning at 9:30 after I took you to school.
Chloe Mao
You always drove carpool.
Candice Bergen
Yes, and then I would be home by 5:30, maybe 6. Except for Thursday and Friday nights.
Chloe Mao
Friday nights were very late.
Candice Bergen
Yes, because we shot the show that night.
Chloe Mao
You would get home at like 2 or later, right? I know, I know.
Candice Bergen
And you'd be up sometimes and we'd watch TV movies at 2am no more at like midnight.
Chloe Mao
Wow. Well, I always loved that. You would have either my fake Aunt Bea or my uncle, who I called Zoo stay over. And then I would make French toast with Bea in the morning. And then you would sort of come out after you'd, you know, been up all night, basically. Were there any things that you wish you'd done differently or any times that you had to sort of push back on the studio or the show about when you could be available?
Candice Bergen
There were physical demands of the show that were that you couldn't change. I mean, you had to shoot a play a week. But they bent over backwards to accommodate my schedule. And they would come with schedules and they would say, okay, so this is when you can get there. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And then Thursday you're home by this and this. And then we would have dinner at Orso's on the weekend.
Chloe Mao
That's true.
Candice Bergen
Which was lovely.
Chloe Mao
We were just talking about that with Artie because I would always have a Polly Pocket. And now he has like a Ninja Turtle Polly Pocket he's very proud of. Are there any parenting decisions you regret?
Candice Bergen
I mean, it was certainly demanding to do a show and be the kind of present parent that I wanted to be. But look at you. And I felt that I was present in Ways that mattered and on a continuous basis.
Chloe Mao
I always remember you also saying about Poppy, my father, that when he was present, he also was. He was not often present, but when he was, he was really in it. Like if he was building a sandcastle, he was on his knees building a sandcastle. Whereas you had other friends who, if they were with their kids, they were also on the phone and they were also, you know, talking to someone else. And I always felt with you that you were fully there with me and never frustrated or impatient about that, but always very grateful to be present. And I try to remember that because I'm on frustrated with my children, but I also try to have my phone in a different room for an hour of bedtime, but it's hard. And I do feel like it's this moment in my life that's so full, and I'm so grateful for it, but I'm just exhausted all the time, and I feel like you.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, you are.
Chloe Mao
And you got sick whenever the show ended.
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
Yeah.
Candice Bergen
Cause I would save it up, which
Chloe Mao
I think happens to a lot of people. But, I mean, we would. The show would end usually, like, the night before my spring break, and then we would leave, and because you didn't think there was enough culture in la, we would go, well, there wasn't. To Moscow, and you'd be, like, quite sick in a tour of the Kremlin. And it took its toll on. You know.
Candice Bergen
I know, and I apologize.
Chloe Mao
No, I mean, it's hard that you. We could have just gone to Hawaii, but you stuck it out.
Candice Bergen
Why go to Hawaii when you could fly LA to Moscow?
Chloe Mao
What is your favorite part about being a grandparent?
Candice Bergen
That was your biggest gift. I just love those two kids. I love them to death. And they are so different, one from another and so filled with life and love. I love getting to re. Experience the joys of all that.
Chloe Mao
Do you think parenting is different now than it was when I was little? Like, do you think people are stricter now or there's more going on, or has the philosophy around raising kids changed dramatically?
Candice Bergen
I think that it sort of veered away from the strictness, and now it's come back to it.
Chloe Mao
Were you very strict?
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Really?
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
Huh.
Candice Bergen
I don't really remember that you complained about it.
Chloe Mao
Huh. You remember any examples?
Candice Bergen
No, I just remember that you would say, you know, other parents don't do that, and other parents don't make their kids come home that early. And I said, well, that's what you're stuck with. Lovely.
Chloe Mao
We went to Disneyland This Christmas we did, which was very exciting. And you announced that it was your last time that you were going to Disneyland.
Candice Bergen
Yes, that's correct.
Chloe Mao
Can you tell me about your first time going to Disneyland?
Candice Bergen
Well, Uncle Walt was there. I went to the opening of Disneyland with my parents.
Chloe Mao
When you were how old?
Candice Bergen
Maybe 10, 11, I think.
Chloe Mao
We looked it up and it was 56, so you must have been 10.
Candice Bergen
And I remember what I was wearing.
Chloe Mao
What did you wear when you were 10 years old to the opening of Disneyland?
Candice Bergen
I wore a crisp red oxford cloth shirt with suspenders stitched on. I loved it.
Chloe Mao
Okay.
Candice Bergen
And jeans or slacks would have been slacks. With my mother, they.
Chloe Mao
Do you have a first fashion memory?
Candice Bergen
I remember modeling when I was 15 or 16. I started to earn my own money and just putting on what seemed like grown up clothes, women's suits and stockings, and thinking, ooh, what a lot of trouble.
Chloe Mao
But you liked it?
Candice Bergen
It was interesting the first few times and then it faded.
Chloe Mao
I remember when I. I think when I was like 15 and saw almost Famous, and I said, were you a hippie? And you said, I was a well dressed hippie.
Candice Bergen
Yes, I was.
Chloe Mao
What does that mean?
Candice Bergen
It means that I gave it some thought and that the beads were nice ones and the blouses were silk. And, you know.
Chloe Mao
Okay, this weekend Artie's very focused on dungeons and people being locked up. And so you were telling Artie about the time you got arrested.
Candice Bergen
Oh, God.
Chloe Mao
Would you like to share with our listeners?
Candice Bergen
Oh, God. I was arrested. I don't remember when it was. Do you know when it was?
Chloe Mao
It must have been in the 60s. It wasn't it for Vietnam?
Candice Bergen
Yeah, yeah. I was arrested with. A group of us were arrested for obstructing the Senate corridor by lying down. Was, I believe the charge.
Chloe Mao
What were you wearing then?
Candice Bergen
I was wearing pants and a blouse.
Chloe Mao
And was it an organized group?
Candice Bergen
Yeah, it was an organized group. I don't remember, honey. And then we were put in a paddy wagon and taken to jail and booked.
Chloe Mao
But no handcuffs or zip ties?
Candice Bergen
No, I don't think there were handcuffs. I would have remembered that. But then we were in a jail cell for. In D.C. in Washington D.C. for longer than I would have thought.
Chloe Mao
With any other people in jail or just you and the group you came in with?
Candice Bergen
Well, there were other people in jail, but we were in one cell.
Chloe Mao
Anyone you met or hung out with?
Candice Bergen
Terry Garr was one of them.
Chloe Mao
Really?
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
She was in your group?
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
I didn't know that.
Candice Bergen
And the prison matron who was telling us to be quiet. And she said, who does your hair?
Chloe Mao
No.
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
To you or Terry?
Candice Bergen
No. Terry said that to the prison matron.
Chloe Mao
And what did the prison matron say?
Candice Bergen
She just gave her a look.
Chloe Mao
Did you. Was that your only time in prison?
Candice Bergen
Yes, it was.
Chloe Mao
Have you ever gotten a ticket?
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
For what?
Candice Bergen
Probably speeding on Santa Monica.
Chloe Mao
Well, I asked because you're a very fast driver.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, it was for speeding.
Chloe Mao
Well, and once when I was learning to drive, my uncle was teaching me, and I rolled through a stop sign. He said, what are you doing? And I said, oh, the stop sign is just a suggestion. It's what mama says. And he was horrified.
Candice Bergen
I took certain liberties, but I would never do that now.
Chloe Mao
Sure.
Candice Bergen
I would never drive now.
Chloe Mao
Well, different conversation. How did you make certain decisions about how much I was going to be exposed to your work and celebrity? Because we recently. The Scandinavian actress Renata Rheinzva was on the podcast and she was talking about not taking her child to premieres, even though they wanted to go. And you always were very strict that I was not allowed to ever do that with you. And other people were, and I felt very excluded. But do you feel that was the right decision?
Candice Bergen
I did. Yes, I did. And I stand behind it.
Chloe Mao
I do remember you took me to the premiere of Oliver and Company, the animated Disney movie, when I was like 4, and that was very exciting.
Candice Bergen
That was fun.
Chloe Mao
We just had Alice's fourth unicorn birthday at our apartment.
Candice Bergen
I know.
Chloe Mao
You threw me amazing birthday parties. Do you remember some of the parties you threw?
Candice Bergen
Some of them. I do.
Chloe Mao
You rented a theater at Disney for my fifth birthday and played Snow White, which actually is a terrifying movie for five year olds.
Candice Bergen
It was terrible idea.
Chloe Mao
But then we came back to the house and Snow White character was there. So that was very exciting. But no, we had great parties growing up. There was a game that Andy Cohen plays on his show about have you ever met this person? And he was sort of holding up different people and you were doing it, and it made us think about different. Some of the great American designers. And I want to know if you remember the first time you wore an Oscar de la Renta dress and met Oscar?
Candice Bergen
Well, I'd known Oscar socially and had dinner at his and Francois's house. So I knew him and he was the most charming, the most lovely, handsome man. And so what about Ralph Lauren? Well, he was always. I mean, I've known him since he made ties. I knew him.
Chloe Mao
You knew him as Ralph Lipshitz?
Candice Bergen
No, I knew him as Ralph Lauren, but he was in Chicago.
Chloe Mao
Oh, wow.
Candice Bergen
And I was working in Chicago.
Chloe Mao
What were you doing in Chicago?
Candice Bergen
I don't know. A movie. And I met him, and then he branched out needlessly. He really branched out into.
Chloe Mao
And you wore a lot of Ralph Lauren for a long time. You still do.
Candice Bergen
I love his stuff.
Chloe Mao
Did you ever meet Irving Penn?
Candice Bergen
Yes. It was not a success.
Chloe Mao
In what way?
Candice Bergen
I was booked to be photographed by Irving Penn, and he said, I can't work with her, and he released me.
Marlee Marius
Wow.
Chloe Mao
What was it for?
Candice Bergen
I think it was for Vogue. I don't remember. It was.
Chloe Mao
Oh, my God.
Candice Bergen
And he said, she's not giving me anything.
Marlee Marius
Wow.
Chloe Mao
What did you say? Did you just slink out?
Candice Bergen
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was not. You didn't say anything. You just went, wow.
Chloe Mao
Were you bruised to the core?
Candice Bergen
No, but I remembered.
Chloe Mao
Wow. When did you meet Gianni Versace?
Candice Bergen
I met him at a club in New York. I don't remember what he called.
Chloe Mao
All these clubs.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, There were, at the time, a lot of clubs. And he contacted me. He sent me flowers to your apartment and asked me if I wanted to meet them for dinner. And so I did, and he was lovely.
Chloe Mao
Where'd you go to dinner?
Candice Bergen
A club.
Chloe Mao
Well. And then he sent a Christmas cactus to you When I was born. As a birth gift?
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
Which lasted, like, 30 years.
Candice Bergen
Yes.
Chloe Mao
Which is amazing.
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
When did you first meet Giorgio Armani?
Candice Bergen
I don't think I ever did.
Chloe Mao
Interesting. But you wore his clothes a lot.
Candice Bergen
Yeah.
Chloe Mao
What about Donna Karan?
Candice Bergen
I wore a lot of Donna on Murphy and loved her stuff and thought it was very flattering and cut well and I loved her suits and her dresses and Bill Blass.
Chloe Mao
Well, that great leopard print.
Candice Bergen
The leopard. The leopard.
Chloe Mao
Did you know him?
Candice Bergen
A little bit.
Chloe Mao
What about Hubert de Givenchy?
Candice Bergen
I don't think I ever met Hubert.
Chloe Mao
What about Valentino?
Candice Bergen
No. Well, I met him, but I didn't know him.
Chloe Mao
Okay, you're gonna hate this, but you're gonna be strong.
Candice Bergen
Oh, boy. What's coming?
Chloe Mao
We're playing a game of how. Like a Newlyweds game. How well we know each other.
Candice Bergen
Oh, man.
Chloe Mao
We're just gonna do it so fast, and then you're gonna be so grumpy that we're gonna stop. All right. What was my first job?
Candice Bergen
Your first job?
Chloe Mao
Yes.
Candice Bergen
This is gonna go so poorly. Was it in New York?
Chloe Mao
No.
Candice Bergen
Was it on the set?
Chloe Mao
No.
Candice Bergen
What was it?
Chloe Mao
It was probably waitressing in Paris when I was living there.
Candice Bergen
Oh, you're right. In your red suede boots. Yeah.
Chloe Mao
I loved those boots. Yep. Yeah. Okay. What's your first question?
Candice Bergen
Who do I think is the funniest comedian?
Chloe Mao
Well, I'm gonna guess right now. You think Jean Smart is a great comedian.
Candice Bergen
Yes, I do. I love Jean Smart.
Chloe Mao
And you were very impressed by Jack Black. You thought he was a great comedian.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, and I liked him. He was fun on the show.
Chloe Mao
What is my favorite movie to watch with Artie and Alice?
Candice Bergen
I don't know.
Chloe Mao
What's your favorite movie to watch with Artie and Alice?
Candice Bergen
Then we watch cartoons. We watch.
Chloe Mao
You watch a lot of Tom and Jerry.
Candice Bergen
A lot of Tom and Jerry, but there's not one dominant Tom and Jerry. So true.
Chloe Mao
All right, what's your next question?
Candice Bergen
How many times have I been on the COVID of Vogue? Next.
Chloe Mao
All right, what's the next question?
Candice Bergen
What year did I become homecoming queen? 63.
Chloe Mao
I'm supposed to answer. I'm supposed to see how. Whatever. Keep going.
Candice Bergen
But you weren't homecoming queen.
Chloe Mao
No. What is my favorite gift that you've ever given me?
Candice Bergen
A piece of jewelry.
Chloe Mao
Well, so many things. You're such a wonderful jewelry fairy. But I do love the bracelet that I have to get fixed that you got me for my 21st birthday with all of my nicknames engraved in it. The Aurora Lopez one. What is my favorite vacation that we've been on together?
Candice Bergen
Rush?
Chloe Mao
I did love Russia. Good job. All right, what's the next one you have?
Candice Bergen
What was my favorite book I read as a child?
Chloe Mao
I have no idea.
Candice Bergen
Treasure Island.
Chloe Mao
Oh, really? Interesting. Artie would probably like that.
Candice Bergen
Yeah, he would. He would love it.
Chloe Mao
What is one stop I have to always go to when I'm in Paris?
Candice Bergen
The hot chocolate place.
Chloe Mao
Angelina, that's when I was 10.
Candice Bergen
Well, no. Where do you like to go?
Chloe Mao
I love to go to the Dries Van Noten store. I love to go to Justine's apartment. I love to go to the souffle place that the Zylkas took us to. I love to go to the Grand Picerie at the Beaumarchais. I love to get kids clothes at Monoprix. What's my favorite restaurant in New York?
Candice Bergen
Not Gabriel's.
Chloe Mao
I like Gabriel's. But that's sort of your favorite restaurant.
Chelsea Daniel
Yes.
Chloe Mao
I love going to Brooklyn Diner with the kids. I love the Odeon. I love Cafe Luxembourg. I love Barney Greengrass.
Candice Bergen
I've never been to any of those with you, so I don't know.
Chloe Mao
You don't like to go below 59th Street? Yes.
Candice Bergen
To go with you. I do.
Chloe Mao
Thank you, Toto, for coming on the pond and Happy Mother's Day. I'm not Toto.
Candice Bergen
I thought we were both Toto.
Chloe Mao
I'm not Toto. It's the grandparent name.
Candice Bergen
Okay. Thank you, Bunny. The run through with Vogue is produced
Chloe Mao
by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma, and Alex
Candice Bergen
John Burns, with help from Emily, Emily Elias.
Chloe Mao
The show is engineered by Bran Bandy
Candice Bergen
and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Bye.
Marlee Marius
Comprehensive, witty, speculative.
Chloe Mao
Critical.
Marlee Marius
Insightful.
Chloe Mao
Profound.
Candice Bergen
Wide ranging.
Chloe Mao
Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.
Candice Bergen
I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.
Chloe Mao
Thoughtful, exquisite, just, you know, real.
Candice Bergen
From prx.
Released: May 7, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle, Marlee Marius, Taylor Antrim
Special Guest: Candice Bergen
This Mother’s Day special features a heartfelt and witty conversation between Vogue’s Chloe Malle and her legendary mother, Candice Bergen. The episode explores generational perspectives on motherhood, careers in media and fashion, personal memories, and the sometimes surreal backstage of the worlds they inhabit. Lightly recapping Met Gala mayhem, Tony nominations, and fashion-world buzz, the episode shifts focus to a delightful, deeply personal exchange between Chloe and Candice—highlighting lessons learned, humorous family lore, and the meaning of female power over eight decades.
(01:46 – 22:53)
War Room Tales & Press Room Realities:
Behind the Scenes & Red Carpet Moments:
The After Party Circuit:
Pre-Met Events & Tony Nominations:
(19:39 – 22:50)
Discussion around anticipated films at Cannes and predictions for red carpet trends.
“I’m excited about ‘Fjord’... It’s very art house this year. There’s nary a blockbuster in sight.” — Taylor Antrim [19:54]
Chloe shares her excitement for LA events and upcoming Dior and Gucci cruise shows, plus a note on traveling without her kids.
(25:25 – 69:34)
Stories of assignments with Jane Goodall (and baboon-related morning drama), sparring with Irving Penn, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes from TV and film sets.
Candice’s brushes with luminaries:
Candice recalls her strict but loving parenting, managing her schedule as a working mom on Murphy Brown, and intentionally keeping Chloe from the spotlight as a child:
Chloe describes the challenge of balancing work and motherhood:
Chloe quizzing Candice on family trivia and favorite things, from first jobs to best vacations:
Some comic misfires, as Candice struggles with the rules or drifts into anecdotes.
Candice’s favorite part of being a grandmother:
On changes in parenting philosophies:
Both end with thanks and playful banter about their grandparent nicknames.
On age and power:
“Turning 80 isn’t what it used to be…we’ve given life extensions to these major birthdays that used to mean—well, really, when I was in school, turning 30 was like the end of your life.”
— Candice Bergen [26:36]
On the gift of grandchildren:
“That was your biggest gift. I just love those two kids. I love them to death.”
— Candice Bergen [56:00]
On career pivots:
“I wasn’t good enough to keep doing [photojournalism] at the level I wanted to do it, but I loved when I was doing it.”
— Candice Bergen [38:45]
On strict parenting:
“Other parents don’t do that, and other parents don’t make their kids come home that early. And I said: well, that’s what you’re stuck with. Lovely.”
— Candice Bergen [56:49]
On being kept away from Hollywood premieres as a kid:
“I did. Yes, I did. And I stand behind it.”
— Candice Bergen [61:56]
On “failing” a photoshoot:
“I was booked to be photographed by Irving Penn, and he said, I can’t work with her, and he released me…she’s not giving me anything.”
— Candice Bergen [63:53]
If you’re new to The Run-Through or simply missed this episode, expect a nostalgic, multi-generational tour through pop culture, the evolution of working motherhood, and the making of fashion history—all with the humor and humanity of two women who’ve lived it, loved it, and aren't afraid to laugh about it.
(Skipped coverage of ads, show intros/outros, and sponsor messages per instructions.)