← The Run-Through with Vogue
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- [00:00]
Chloe Mal
Chloe I'm Chloe Mal.
- [00:02]
Chamma Nadi
And I'm Chamma Nadi.
- [00:03]
Chloe Mal
And we have some exciting news to share. We want to hear from you. Do you have a question that you've always wanted to ask a Vogue editor or a co host of the run through?
- [00:12]
Virginia Smith
Maybe you want to know where to shop for good jeans?
- [00:15]
Chloe Mal
Or a question I'm asked all the time is can you really borrow clothes from the Vogue closet? No.
- [00:20]
Virginia Smith
Or you would be good at this question about throwing a party and hosting a party. I think you're such a good host.
- [00:26]
Chloe Mal
Oh well thank you so much.
- [00:27]
Virginia Smith
Yeah.
- [00:28]
Chloe Mal
See you can ask us anything. Please send an email to therunthroughoague.com and if we like your question, we just might answer it on the podcast in a few weeks.
- [00:37]
Virginia Smith
I don't know anything, but maybe.
- [00:39]
Nicole Phelps
Well, they can write anything. They just won't like it.
- [00:45]
Chloe Mal
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [01:11]
Nicole Phelps
This is the Run through. I'm Nicole Phelps and we're here with another special episode. Throughout December, the Vogue Runway team did a roundup of all the major trends of the last 25 years of fashion. We did a year a day. It was a lot of work and you can find all of it on the Vogue app and site. On Tuesday's episode, we went over the reader's choices of the most impactful shows of the century so far. If you haven't listened to that episode, I definitely recommend you go back and check it out before starting this one. Today we are doing our Editor's picks because there were important shows and impactful designers that did not get selected by our readers that no story about the last 25 years of fashion would be complete without. I'm joined again by Laird Borelli Pearson, Mark Guiducci and Virginia SM Welcome.
- [01:57]
Mark Guiducci
Hi Nicole.
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Virginia Smith
Hi Nicole.
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Nicole Phelps
Hi. I'm excited to hear about your picks and again, I definitely recommend listeners follow along on the app and on the site to see the looks we're talking about today. But before we get to our own picks, we have to go back to the reader's choice list. They selected their top 25 and because of time we didn't get to all of them on Tuesday. So at the top of this list is Versace Spring 2018 and I can guess why the Readers had such a big reaction to it. To me, it really is the beginning of the return of the supermodel. Donatella was celebrating the 20th or marking the 20th anniversary of her brother Johnny's passing. And she brought back to the Runway some of Johnny's favorite models to work with, including Naomi, including Cindy. Helena Christensen was there, Carla Bruni. It was a great list of models. And even Kaia Gerber was there. So it was a mom, a mom, daughter moment. And the clothes were very much in. In honor and in like an ode to Johnny's collections in the 90s. And I would say not not only was it the rebirth of the supermodel, but it was the beginning of this idea of re additions and fashion being very open to revisiting the past, whereas maybe once upon a time people were more focused on it has to be new, it has to be new, it has to be new.
- [03:21]
Chamma Nadi
Well, it was around that time that Google Trends said that nostalgia, the trend of the year, I believe in 2018. So I think this played into to that. But it also brought it forward. It was forward and back because you had Cindy and Kya, you had the prints, but not the exact designs. So. And I think there's a lot of longing that we've seen over the past few years for the 90s in particular. And like, it's not a fear of missing out, cause you couldn't have been there, but you still want it because you. You came up with it on Tumblr or Instagram or Pinterest. And so I. It's a really interesting dynamic where the past and the present are in constant dialogue.
- [04:04]
Mark Guiducci
2018, we're a decade into Instagram culture, more or less. And the idea that photo archives which have been uploaded there and fed to us via algorithm, you know, the audience, a young audience, would have known what they were looking at. Both not just the famous faces, but also the prints. And that kind of visual remix was primed and ready. And Donatella, like her brother before her, is so clever at understanding where that pop cultural needle is on that.
- [04:38]
Nicole Phelps
I'm glad you brought up Instagram culture, Mark, because the next show sort of has to do with that in a. In sort of the reverse way. We wanted to put Tom Ford's eponymous debut for his label, which was in 2010, on the list. But at the time, I don't know if you all remember, he forbade any photographs being taken. I think he had one photographer there. He kept those photos for internal use. And everybody else, you know, who wasn't at the show which was many of us, because it was a very small show, were left to wonder what happened. It really was going back to Tuesday's show when we were talking about keeping things for the clients only. It was a very, very private experience. And the sad thing about it for all of us was Beyonce, Julianne, Mo, Lauren Hutton all walked the Runway. Also on the list, Sarah Burton's spring 2020 Alexander McQueen collection. And Sarah is obviously very au courant because she has since left McQueen to take the job at Givenchy. I was happy to see this show on the list. The readers pick it, and in fact, Virginia, this is a collection that produced one of your recent Met Gala looks.
- [05:52]
Virginia Smith
It did. I wore one of those beautiful tailored looks with ruffles for last year' Met Gala. They were nice enough to let me borrow it. So I have a deep appreciation for this collection.
- [06:05]
Nicole Phelps
And you're happy that Sarah Burton is returning to the spotlight, right?
- [06:08]
Virginia Smith
I'm very excited. I think we all are.
- [06:11]
Mark Guiducci
You know, this is like a kind of a quintessential Sarah Burton McQueen collection. It was nice to see it, but it's actually a really significant collection for its casting. It had a generation of girls that are now supermodels, but they were babies then. Kya and Vittoria. But it was also one of Stella Tennant's last shows, and it featured Jill Courtlev. Jill was exclusive to McQueen that season, and it was not that long ago, but it was kind of a big deal to see a curved girl walk McQueen at the time. And the next season, Paloma walked that show. And so it has a place in fashion history for that reason, too. And I remember Sarah gave away amazing sweaters on every seat that season.
- [06:56]
Virginia Smith
Yes, she did. With your little initials.
- [06:59]
Mark Guiducci
Yeah, correct.
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Chamma Nadi
Wow.
- [07:01]
Nicole Phelps
All right. Loewe Spring 2023. No designer has gotten more press, I think, in the last year than Jonathan Anderson, thanks to his work with the director Luca Guadagnino and many other reasons. So it's natural to have to have Jonathan on this list.
- [07:21]
Mark Guiducci
And there's a number of looks. The anthurium dress that is so graphic is one that comes to mind. But for me, it's the pixel look. That Jonathan is so creative and fun, and he's so damn smart. And that idea, I think, is one of his smartest. That I implore everyone to go look at the picture. It's look 19, because you really have to see it to understand. But he knew what that look would look like photographically, and the effect isn't the same. IRL if you See, it's been in the office before, as it is in a picture, which means that that look wasn't actually about being in the room. It was about seeing it on Instagram or seeing it on Vogue Runway. And he was making a meme. He was creating Internet content in real life, which is so brilliant. And I think that idea will continue to be influential, especially as Jonathan goes on.
- [08:14]
Chamma Nadi
I'm glad you called out that look, because I also love it. I'm kind of obsessed with glitch culture and music, hyper pop. But I love that it exists in the same collection with the pannier dress, which opened the show. Panier being the extended hips that women Wore in the 18th century and then were revived in the early 20s. And I think that juxtaposition for me as an archivist, is really beautiful to see the Internet culture mixing with fashion history that's been updated. But I also think that maybe glitch is one way to describe Jonathan's genius, because it's always not quite what it should be, and that's why it's so exciting. It's kind of caught in the moment between what you expect and what it actually is. And I love that idea.
- [09:04]
Nicole Phelps
The readers also selected Saint Laurent Fall 2023. This is the show where Antoni Vaccarello did the shoulders. I mean, bigger than football, American football shoulders. You know, inches added to your profile and your silhouette, and they became super influential. Right. That shape.
- [09:25]
Virginia Smith
You know, Anthony has been, to me, he's just really, really come into his own the last few years at St. Laurent. I mean, he was always good. He just minds a specific sort of area that he loves, and he does such an incredible job of it. And, you know, talk about women taking up space. Like, Anthony gave them the clothes to do that, and he continues to do, like, incredible collections. So I have a huge amount of respect for him and what he's doing there.
- [09:52]
Mark Guiducci
Virginia, when those clothes came into the office, did you ever try on one of those jackets?
- [09:56]
Virginia Smith
I did. I felt like, too big, you know, Like, I was just, I'm too tall, too big. Too much of me was going on for that same.
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Mark Guiducci
I tried it on, too, but it.
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Virginia Smith
Looks great for other people. I was like, I don't think I can pull this off. But I admire anyone who does.
- [10:14]
Mark Guiducci
It changes your psychology, though, doesn't it?
- [10:16]
Virginia Smith
It does.
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Chamma Nadi
And the funny thing is this beautiful, sophisticated collection that speaks to Yves St. Laurent's tailoring was inspired by Working Girl, which is, you know, Staten Island Ferry coming to Wall Street.
- [10:29]
Nicole Phelps
Anthony is now multitasking as a movie producer and is having quite a good. A good run with Emilia Perez, right?
- [10:38]
Virginia Smith
Sure is.
- [10:40]
Nicole Phelps
So Thom Browne is another designer multitasker. He's also our CFDA chairman. And fall 2023 was his debut couture collection in Paris. He had shown there many times in the past, but this is the first time he the couture schedule. And Mark, I think you were there.
- [11:00]
Mark Guiducci
I was there. I've been to a couple of shows that have taken place in theaters before Opening ceremony. Did one in New York, I think at Lincoln center, maybe. But Tom did this genius thing where we were all invited to the Opera House in Paris, which designers have historically shown that before. But you usually enter the. Through the front. We entered through the back. And you went backstage through the bowels of the Opera Garnier. And you were sat. You didn't know it at the time, but you were sat on stage. And then when the show started, the curtain came up and there were thousands of little cardboard cutout men. I mean, I don't know what they were made of, but little cardboard figures in each and every seat of the Opera Garnier. Little cardboard Tom Brown avatars. And so all of a sudden you felt like you were part of the spectacle. And it was one of Tom's. I don't know, it was probably a 40 minute show that had narrative and had plot points and probably motifs and supporting characters.
- [12:11]
Virginia Smith
Going to a Tom Brown show is like going to Broadway. You need to invest your time into a Thom Browne show. No.
- [12:17]
Mark Guiducci
Yeah. It's like going to see the Brutalist. It's fabulous. The intermission might be necessary.
- [12:24]
Nicole Phelps
Yeah. I think that it really is a moment where he is wearing both of his caps, his designer cap, and his CFDA boss cap, and sending a message to the world and especially to Europe, which oftentimes European fashion, which oftentimes disputes this or discounts this fact that American fashion can compete on the world stage. And definitely Tom Brown's can also.
- [12:47]
Mark Guiducci
The stage of the Opera Garnier, no less. No less.
- [12:51]
Nicole Phelps
All right, this is the last show that our readers picked and it is Mathieu Blasi's spring 2023 Bottega Venida. And when Laird and I were making our selections for the poll, we had a big debate over doing his debut or the second collection, spring 2023. And tell us, Laird, why you felt so sure we should use this one.
- [13:15]
Chamma Nadi
I'm obsessed with this collection and it inspired an essay that I wrote about the eye becoming an unreliable narrator in a digital world with AI and Fakes. We don't know if what we see is real. And the tank and the jeans were marvelous, but the flannel shirt was something else. I think it belongs to grunge. It belongs. It has so many things attached to it, but you would never in a million years think it's leather unless someone used words to tell you or you felt it. So this iconic piece that has so many built in associations to see it rendered this way and need to be told what it actually is, it just brought back to mind Magritte's, you know, this is not a pipe. It was what it was, and it's not what it is. And I find it fascinating and more complicated than the tank because of the pop culture references and that he put.
- [14:14]
Mark Guiducci
It on Kate Moss, Right. That. That just took it. Not only was she going to get the most attention, but also she was part of that moment in the 90s from which it came. And it's been so influential. Now you see all kinds of high street brands doing versions of that trompe l'oeil with that in mind, whether they know it or not.
- [14:37]
Chamma Nadi
I think they know.
- [14:40]
Nicole Phelps
That's it for the reader's choice. Now that we've come to the end of the list, I'm curious what you all think and what you learned from studying it.
- [14:49]
Mark Guiducci
I think, for one, there is some recency bias. You know, if you look at the list as you laid it out chronologically, Nicole, the first 15 years have only half a dozen or so shows, and then the last decade has the majority of the shows on the list. And I think that's natural, particularly with younger readers who will remember the last 10 years better than the prior 15. But I also think there's something about how, as we were saying before, Instagram has habituated our eyes to seeing Runway images. And the designers know that they need to create something that's gonna stand out. So Rachel Taschen, who's a critic at the Washington Post, she actually texted me and said that seeing the reader's choices made her feel old. And I said, honestly, same. But I think it's because designers today have learned so much about how to stage a fashion show from those earlier designers like Hussein shalayan and Alexander McQueen and Dries van Noten, that they've honed the devices about how to create spectacle much better today.
- [15:48]
Virginia Smith
I was pretty impressed by the range of designers that were included, though I have to say I was, you know, very pleasantly surprised to see, like, someone like Adrees Van Noten included on that list. Obviously, that show was incredible. The one I missed that we, you know, can go into once again. But while that show was sort of a spectacle, he's not really a designer who. That sort of spectacle is not so important to him. That's not really. He's not an Instagram designer, shall we say. He's not really a showman. He really lets the clothes speak for himself. So I was impressed that he made the list, to be honest, and obviously very thrilled. And then someone like Victor Roff, who. I was surprised they actually made the list because I wouldn't have thought they were as well known as many of the other designers. But that, I think, goes to show you that, you know, those collections that do have a real sort of Instagram moment recently also are, you know, so impactful. But I thought the range was impressive.
- [16:48]
Chamma Nadi
And I think it represents a bit of a generational shift. I think Miu Miu today is what Prada was to people in the 90s, for example. And I also think there's a sort of cult of designer and brand that people really. I think fashion is moving closer to sports in the sense of, like, fandom. There's always been fandom, but it's people really deep dive. There are, you know, scroll and scroll, and there are a million people telling you the details of specific nitty gritty about a collection. And so I think that's become more of the norm to have Dunya on that list from 2000 to. I'm so happy with this list.
- [17:29]
Nicole Phelps
I guess my big takeaway is that I'm an outlier, because at least two, but possibly three I'm trying to remember of my favorites didn't make the top 25. So we'll have a lot more to talk about after the break.
- [17:55]
Chloe Mal
Ready to add a touch of Vogue to your collection? Browse shop.vogue.com for exclusive merch, like limited edition mugs. And here's a treat. Get an exclusive 15% discount with code VOGUEPOD15 at checkout. Happy shopping.
- [18:19]
Nicole Phelps
Okay, we're back. We are now gonna talk about editors favorites. And the way I want everyone to think about this is there were 25 shows that didn't make the list. We gave the readers a selection of 50, and there's some in that second 25 that are just too important not to talk about. So while we may talk about specific collections, we'll also talk about the influence and the impact that these designers have had over the course of the last 25 years. And at the top, we are gonna start with Balenciaga fall 2007. I think this might be one of your favorite Nicolas Ghesquier collections ever.
- [18:58]
Virginia Smith
I don't know how this did not make the top.
- [19:01]
Chamma Nadi
Me neither.
- [19:02]
Virginia Smith
I mean, this was a tour de force of a show. I mean, almost every editor I know would put this in their top list. I think I certainly would. But it was this amazing multicultural blend of collegiate jackets e cop prints, the jodhpurs. I mean, you just saw all this coming at you and you created. And the thing that was so incredible about this show, I think is of course you wanted those looks on the Runway, but it also was so. It sort of changed the way you looked at your own wardrobe. And you could go into your closet and relook at how you sort of styled yourself. It was so influential in that regard. Like the next day, I remember seeing anyone who had brought a scarf to Paris, had it wrapped around their neck, you know, with every single print they owned on their body, you know, and if you were lucky enough to have a jodhpur in your suitcase, you were really doing it. But it was such an incredible, incredible show. I absolutely loved the clothes of the show. I actually have a gray flannel varsity jacket from this collection that is so beautiful. It did not fit me, I don't think, when it was given to me and it does not fit me now. But I still go into my closet and look at it every once in a while just to see how beautifully made it is.
- [20:21]
Nicole Phelps
The incredible thing about Nicola is that he really toggled between these sci fi collections and you know, he was looking a lot at Cristobal Balenciaga's own work from the mid century. And then he would do a show like this that was really all about the street. I think that's what he said at the time. It's about the street mix. And he could do it all.
- [20:44]
Chamma Nadi
I mean, but really, how do you pick a favorite Nicolas Balenciaga collection? It's almost an impossibility.
- [20:50]
Mark Guiducci
I remember that store that's now a Comme des Garcons store in Chelsea with kind of egg shaped door. And I remember going there and just sort of like. It was almost like going to church. You would just go and, you know, look around, light a candle, go to the various chapels, see the altar, beg.
- [21:09]
Virginia Smith
The sales associates to go back in the stock room and find something more.
- [21:13]
Mark Guiducci
To bring out, pay significant alms.
- [21:18]
Nicole Phelps
Okay. So a year later is another show that we think is not to be missed. And it was Prada's spring 2008. And this was the fairies Collection, Yes.
- [21:31]
Chamma Nadi
Mitya worked with an illustrator and sort of did Ossie Clark sort of silhouettes in these vibrant colors and psychedelia. But I think that Mark Guiducci is the one to talk about this collection because it's his most favorite, so I turn it over to you.
- [21:48]
Mark Guiducci
It is my most favorite Prada collection. Sarah Moore, in her review, started by saying, fairies at Prada. Why, yes. And Prada is always unpredictable and I think purposefully, maybe even inscrutable. But this collection really stood out as something different. It had a few prints that became really popular. There's the windowpane Prada skirt that has continued and we see all the time. But this particular art nouveau motif of, like, a wood nymph seemed to come from total left field. She's like a green absinthe fairy that's printed on these retro 1960s silhouettes in silk chiffon. And there's collars that look like flower petals. It was like Ossie Clarke meets FernGully. And I don't know, it was just the antithesis of what you might expect from one season to the next. It was like as if Donald Judd all of a sudden started doing figurative painting. And. And I think because of that reason, it was so unexpected that it immediately became a cult classic. I threw a party once, and my friend Colby Mugrabe, who's a collector, showed up wearing a look from that collection. And it was like my present just to wear it. And you can still. I think these pieces are, like, for vintage archive hunters are still the Grail. Yeah, the Grail.
- [23:11]
Nicole Phelps
Such a great show and so many. Mucha is another designer who it was so hard to pick which collection.
- [23:20]
Chamma Nadi
The peplums, the wrinkles. I mean, it goes on and on the list.
- [23:26]
Nicole Phelps
Ricko in spring 2014, this was a very big moment. He invited American dancers to perform at this show, and sadly, I wasn't there. I think it might be the only Rick show that I haven't seen in a decade and have. And I can't believe. I can't believe this is the one. Were you there in Virginia?
- [23:49]
Virginia Smith
No, I missed it, too. And I'm very lemon lipped, as Hamish Bowles would say, about not being there, because Rick is just a phenomenon of a designer. I mean, I have a son who's been obsessed with Rick Owens since his. Since a teenager. He has a following that his reach is so vast and he's always cool. Rick never goes out of not being cool. He's just the ultimately cool designer. And his clothes are so good for kids. Who are lucky enough to be able to save up and afford, you know, the dark shadow tennis shoe to, like, what we would want. And it's just he's very unusual in that way.
- [24:33]
Nicole Phelps
To me, there's always this line outside his store in soho. Right. And it's always kids out there, and you're like, how can they afford anything in that Rick Owens store? And going to a Rick Owens show is one of the highlights of Paris Fashion Week. Right? Because he's one of these designers who has developed this cult around him. And his clothes are exceptional and odd and eccentric, and they come dressed head to toe, and it's just a trip to be there.
- [25:02]
Mark Guiducci
Yeah. And his, you know, he's another multidisciplinary designer. He has a furniture show at Salon 94 right now uptown. But I love that he exists because as this California transplant in Paris, Goth genius. Because I think sometimes people think of fashion as being for one kind of person. And the Rick Owens girl is a really different person than the Oscar de la Renta girl. And it's just really great that. But I think he's a good example of how inclusive has many other meanings now, but how broad and inclusive fashion actually can be.
- [25:39]
Chamma Nadi
I mean, Rick talks a lot about this, about being an outsider and having had that experience, he has transformed him and given him a really inclusive vision, both in terms of aesthetics and looking through. Some of the collections are very couture like and interested in other people doing things that you might not know about. And I think we all benefit from that.
- [26:08]
Nicole Phelps
Well, talking about cults, designer cults, Phoebe Filo, of course, old Celine has a very big. A big one. And again, we clicked through many a Celine show to decide which one to put on this list. And in the end, Celine Spring 2014, is what we chose. And for those who can't conjure it out of their head, this is a show where Phoebe Filo sort of fell in love with color. And these bold brushstrokes on these sort of simple, ish shapes, like a boxy tee, a lean tank that went down to the thighs, and a pleated skirt with an asymmetrical hem. And the prints are so exceptional. And I will say that there is an editor who works on floor 25 who still wears pieces from this collection going on. Yes, 11 years ago. So she was. It was, you know, a great collection then. And it maintains. It's still a great collection. And of course, you know, we were all bereft when Phoebe stepped away and took her six years to come back. But now she's back, and lots of us are very happy about that.
- [27:20]
Virginia Smith
Yes, we are. I mean, this was a sort of a surprising collection from her. You know, it's a bit of an outlier with her other shows, but I think it sort of showed women who don't necessarily wear color and print how to wear color and print. Interesting from her, I think, in terms of her collections as a whole.
- [27:40]
Chamma Nadi
But I mean, from the very first collection, Nicole, that we saw, the pre fall that she did, I mean, this idea of a woman's designer or woman designing for women, I don't know how you get that feeling, but I think we got that feeling right away. There was a special sensibility like she understood what your life was like to some extent.
- [28:03]
Nicole Phelps
I think it also resonated, right, because many of us were in love with her and what she did@chloe 10 years earlier and she had gone away, you know, for the first time to start a family and to have kids and to see her come back and really with a completely different take. And I think that is partly what made us feel like these strong connections to her that we had watched her grow up through fashion and she grew up with us.
- [28:32]
Chamma Nadi
The boho was gone, and it was a much more sophisticated but not uncomfortable thing.
- [28:39]
Nicole Phelps
We are going to take a break and be back in a moment.
- [28:57]
Chamma Nadi
On this week's Critics at Large. We're talking about one of the most ancient narrative techniques of all, the first person. We see it across film, fiction, video games, social media. I mean, it's truly everywhere.
- [29:11]
Chloe Mal
But is it all too much? I keep getting fed these reels on Instagram. I'm like, who is this person? Why am I watching this? Why am I riveted by this?
- [29:23]
Chamma Nadi
But you are riveted.
- [29:24]
Chloe Mal
I'm riveted. The point is, Vincent, to your question, a glut. A glut of first person stories.
- [29:33]
Chamma Nadi
I'm Vincent Cunningham, and this week on Critics at Large, we're talking about the elusive promise of the first person. Join me and my co hosts every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:50]
Nicole Phelps
Okay, we're back. And next on our list is Gucci fall 2015. I think everybody knows what this is. This is Alessandro Michele's Gucci debut.
- [30:01]
Virginia Smith
Yes. But, Nicole, what's interesting that we sort of have forgotten about is that, you know, that January before, he'd actually done the menswear show, about five days after his predecessor had left and somehow gotten this men's show together. And that's where he showed all the bow ties and the androgynous vibe at the menswear show, which everyone was frankly a little bit shocked about. And it seems sort of quaint now, but at the time it was really, really a, a thing that no one had ever seen. So there was a lot of sort of talk about what he was gonna do at this, which was his real debut. Good memory. Well, we had a lot of conversation about it. I remember one weekend with Victor Lamott and I remember watching this show and then turning to Mark Colgate at about looked in and going, I'm loving this show. You know, this is like amazing. And if you look back at that show, like all of his ideas for Gucci were fully formed at that debut show. It's an incredible show when you go back. And he just built upon it and built upon it, but everything was there. And I can't think of too many times that's really happened in fashion. And I think I personally feel so lucky to have been there and seen that debut. But it was pretty remarkable.
- [31:28]
Mark Guiducci
It's like Athena being born fully grown, you know, in armor, except that the armor's like horn rimmed glasses and silk scarves.
- [31:38]
Virginia Smith
And to have it, you know, his vision of Gucci was so different than the designers before him. So to have that sort of confidence in what you were doing was, you know, as I say, that he is a remarkable designer and it changed the.
- [31:53]
Mark Guiducci
Industry, you know, that Gucci just from a business perspective took on a rocket like trajectory. I looked back at your review, Nicole, and you said that it was significantly less buzzy than if one of the already famous designers that everyone had thought might take over the job had gotten it. And it's amazing to think that it was just a decade ago that Alessandro, who is a giant figure creatively and in the industry, was a complete unknown.
- [32:24]
Nicole Phelps
Yeah, I can't even think of who those designers were. Like, who were the rumored people that were gonna take that job. They have completely been obliterated in my memory by the Alessandro Michele effect. I mean, he totally, as you said, changed the industry. Not just the business, but also the aesthetics. I mean, a whole generation of kids grew up. You know, I think he might be partly responsible for the current obsession with vintage. You know, I think you're right.
- [32:56]
Chamma Nadi
He's a Roman. And when you're in Rome, everything is layers, everything coexists. You know, it's old and new mashed together. You can't escape it. There's a sense of heritage and strangeness and newness. And he also is a home obsessive. And I think the patterns and prints also relate to wallpapers and interior designs. And so I think it was really his walking around Rome and seeing old and new or layers of old and, you know, living in a home filled with things that you love, that you've collected. And, yes, this brilliantly, what you said, this sort of embodying fashion's vintage obsession in his person.
- [33:40]
Nicole Phelps
And of course, now, after, you know, having a year off, he is at Valentino. And I just think fashion is richer with Alessandro in it. I'm very excited to see what he does at couture later this month. I'm very optimistic and hopeful. I think we're all gonna have our fashion minds blown. I can't wait. All right, the last show, it's another Balenciaga show. This one Demna's debut.
- [34:06]
Chamma Nadi
Oh, my God.
- [34:07]
Nicole Phelps
And this one sticks out for a lot of us. But I know, Laird, it is a treasured memory for you.
- [34:12]
Chamma Nadi
It is. Because I think it's rare that posture changes. You know, someone in vogue and early 90s had done a posture story, and I followed up, adding to it on the site. But the way that the shoulders. You carry yourself when something is off shoulder, the way that the hips were constructed, maybe you weren't carrying your hips, but they were jutting out in a sort of couture tradition. It wasn't only what we were seeing was new, but the way that the models carried themselves was new. And I think that's extraordinary. And thinking about it as I did research for this, the thing with that is that everything in that show was recognizable. It was a skirt suit, it was a puffer. You know, it was a pencil skirt. Everything that you knew. So borrowing that idea from Margiela and from looking at archives, but totally reimagining it in a way that you. That was astonishing. But. Yes, but how you carry yourself to be able to influence that I think is a rare thing indeed.
- [35:20]
Mark Guiducci
Hmm. He was upgrading workwear to couture. Not just streetwear, but, like, workwear. And there's a classist conversation happening there where he's confronting a client with something that they. That was a scandal at the time, actually. It was shocking. People were saying, oh, Cristobal would be rolling over in his grave. And so it was divisive in the best way. You know, he always plays with this degradation of luxury. You know, when they recreated the couture salons, they did them exactly as Crystal Balenciaga, and then had the team come in and actually damage the moldings and create, like, as if they had been Chipping away and had mold and smoke all over them. And just that idea of playing, you know, or elevating the everyday where a trash bag becomes a handbag or the answer is that the age old question, what does a couture puffer look like?
- [36:16]
Chamma Nadi
He always makes it.
- [36:17]
Nicole Phelps
Or a couture Jean jacket or a couture. I mean, you name it. He's so just last July, or was it in June, he made a dress out of meters and meters of tulle. Right. And it was this dress that you wrap on once with the help of three Balenciaga studio team members, and you unwrap yourself at the end of the night and it's just a ball of fabric.
- [36:41]
Mark Guiducci
In the context of what we were saying about Stephen Sprouse yesterday, it's kind of like, you know, that graffiti at Vuitton was really transgressive at the time, but 15 years later, the bar had been raised and I think Demna more than cleared it.
- [36:57]
Nicole Phelps
All right. We have spent going on two months now thinking about the past 25 years and does anybody have any big takeaways?
- [37:07]
Mark Guiducci
We were saying yesterday that the reader seemed to be selecting spectacle in one way or another. Not just how a show is staged, but maybe the clothes themselves, but the editor's choices. It seems like we've all gravitated towards something different, whether. Whether it's a one off show, like something that stand out in a designer's very consistent of like the 2008 Prada Fairy Collection, or that Celine show that we were talking about that stand apart, or in other cases, a show that marked a shift in fashion. So Alessandro's debut at Gucci or Demna's debut at Balenciaga. And it's just interesting to think that as editors that that's what. That's what we see as being impactful.
- [37:51]
Virginia Smith
To be honest, some of that could be Mark, because we see so much and it's those moments of real change that maybe we remember more and think about more. Because we have seen hundreds and thousands of shows at this point. So that could have something to do with it. I mean, I probably wouldn't say that particular Celine 2014 show was my favorite Celine show in all the Celine shows I've seen. But it might be one of the most memorable shows and important in different ways, if you know what I mean.
- [38:25]
Nicole Phelps
That's a really good point, I think. When you do a list like this, what are we measuring? Are we measuring our favorites or are we measuring impact or the best?
- [38:35]
Virginia Smith
Yeah. You and I were talking about that you let your own personal preferences enter in versus what felt impactful and important. And I think we sort of leaned more towards the impactful and important in many ways.
- [38:51]
Chamma Nadi
And I think we were walking a line. It was a list of shows, but inevitably, it's also a list of designers. And so I think the editor's list, we're really talking about people who have. And not that everyone on this list has changed fashion, but here we're talking about people who developed groups, bodies of work. And this is one example. Maybe it's your favorite, maybe it's your not, but you can't ignore them. And I think maybe the lesson is, when you dare, it matters. So to fashion, who wants to be safe in difficult times, that's very understandable. But what we remember is people that took a chance, that dared, that put themselves on the line, and that's what these shows and list represents, I think.
- [39:40]
Virginia Smith
Well said, Laird.
- [39:41]
Nicole Phelps
And the new season is starting in a matter of days, so there will be more opportunities for designers who decide to dare. And I guess that's why we all keep going back, right? Because so many of these shows, for me, are such important moments. And like you say, Virginia, we have literally been to thousands of shows, and when you get that feeling, it doesn't come along every week or even every season sometimes. And it's a really beautiful moment, and especially because it's a collective moment that we feel together. Like, you all sense it, and it's.
- [40:17]
Mark Guiducci
Worth it, and you don't wanna miss it, because we all remember we could do a whole series about the ones that got away, about the shows that we missed. I had one. I once got a call. I was in London, and I was at a work lunch. I was not working at Vogue at the time. And I got a call from Hamish Bowles, and he said, where are you? And I said, I'm like, you know, wherever I was. And he said, you need to be in such and such a dress. And he said, there's a seat with your name on it next to me, and you don't want to miss this. And it turns out that it just hadn't made my way. It's weighted my calendar. But it was the show that the queen attended. It was Richard Quinn show.
- [40:54]
Chamma Nadi
Oh, Richard Quinn. Yeah.
- [40:55]
Mark Guiducci
And I.
- [40:56]
Virginia Smith
Did you make it there on time or not?
- [40:57]
Mark Guiducci
I did not make it on time. I was outside. I was outside for the Queen. The ones that got away.
- [41:06]
Nicole Phelps
All right, well, this was so much fun. Thank you all. Virginia, Mark, and Laird.
- [41:10]
Virginia Smith
Thank you, Nicole.
- [41:17]
Nicole Phelps
That's it for the show. We'll be back next week with a new episode.
- [41:31]
Chloe Mal
The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global audio.
- [41:57]
Mark Guiducci
From prx.