← The Run-Through with Vogue
The Run-Through with Vogue
Three Designers On What it Takes to Run an Independent Label in 2025
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- [00:01]
Nicole Phelps
Everyone complains about winter. I love the excuse to stay home in January and February. I really commit to just watching TV in bed, watching my, you know, Britbox murder mystery and I am enjoying my Brooklinen sheets. Lloyd, my dog is a big fan. Lloyd is very discerning about linens and he's put his nose right into those pillows. So big plus for Brooklinen from Lloyd Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online@brooklinen.com that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today. Who doesn't love a little luxury? How about a lot? High quality items aren't a splurge anymore since I discovered Quince. Quince is my new go to for luxury essentials at affordable prices. They offer a great range of high quality items at prices within reach like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry, all priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes those savings on to us by partnering directly with top factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. I ordered very cute kids clothing from Quince Kids Cashmere is really to me an ultimate luxury. And I got a very cute cashmere hoodie for my son Arthur which he's actually wearing today because it is 8 degrees in New York City and it's great because he's always getting himself dirty and it can go right in the washing machine and I'm not worried about it. But he looks very chic. Same for the jeggings that I got for Alice. Albert, so very much a fan of Quince children's clothing. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.com runthrough for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com runthrough to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com runthrough.
- [02:26]
Rachel Scott
This is the Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. The 2024 fashion year was bookended by Sarah Burton's swan song at Alexander McQueen and Louise Trotter landing the creative director job at Bottega Veneda. In between, the state of women in the fashion industry, specifically how few of them are in the top design roles, became the talk of the Internet again. But let's be real, there is no shortage of female talent in the industry and that's a point that we were reminded of this season already. With Veronica Leone's debut at Calvin Klein. Please listen to our interview with her and Sarah Burton's upcoming debut at Givenchy. These are women who have already had long careers in fashion designers whose moment has come. We have to wait until October for Trotter's debut at Bottega Veneda. In the meantime, though, I wanted to speak to the next generation of women designers about the challenges of operating in what can still feel like a man's world. This is my conversation with Rachel Scott of Diatima, Julie Kegles, and Colleen Allen. In the time since our recording, Ayo Adebri wore a Colleen Allen black velvet U neck dress to the Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary event, and people were losing their minds over how great she looked. Rachel Scott's Diatima presentation at New York Fashion Week was a triumph and one of the very few to tackle the current state of America. And Julie Kiggles is gearing up to show her latest collection at Paris fashion week on March 5th. I love speaking with these three, and I hope you'll learn as much as I did. I want to start by saying thank you all for doing this, and it's a good week for women designers. Louise Trotter got the Bottega Venita job, and she because Kering's first woman designer since Sarah Burton, left the role at Alexander McQueen. So one thing I wanted to start quickly, just to get our blood flowing, is tell me each of you one at a time, and let's go in alphabetical order. So, Colleen, first, when did you launch? Describe your label in three words.
- [04:36]
Colleen Allen
Okay, so I launched very recently. I launched in February of 2024. So I've done two seasons under my own brand, which is my name, Colleen Allen. And three words to describe my brand or my work would be mystical, ritual and femininity.
- [05:05]
Rachel Scott
Thank you, Julie.
- [05:07]
Julie Kegles
So for me, actually, it's the same story. I launched my own brand in March 2024, and so that was my first collection. Second collection was in September. Now working on the third collection, time is really, really flying. And when I have to describe my brands, I would say maybe social story and fun.
- [05:35]
Ayo Adebiri
I launched Yetima in 2021, and I would describe it as sensual, nuanced, and artisanal.
- [05:47]
Rachel Scott
It's funny to be a veteran with only three years of experience. Right? Rachel, what would you say if I asked you who the women are who influenced you?
- [06:00]
Ayo Adebiri
I mean, I can jump in because I talk about her all the time. I'm obsessed with Miccia Prada, and I say this A lot. But I think, I mean, first of all, as a fossil year old myself, having launched her brand at foursy, I have the most amounts of respect for because the industry in general has this idea of newness and youth and emerging in a way that I think not in her case, but it can be quite classist and it's even more so difficult for women. So I mean just that in itself, I have so much respect for that. And she's built such an incredible, incredible business. And her engagement with art, I think is super special because I think she understands the value or the importance of fashion and culture. And so, yeah, I'm endlessly inspired by her.
- [06:52]
Rachel Scott
Are there other women in fashion that have businesses that you look to that you think, oh, I'd like to do it that way or the way she's doing it, I can learn from that. I mean, Rachel, you mentioned Mucha Prada, but are there other businesses that you look at that have sort of informed how you've built yours?
- [07:13]
Julie Kegles
I think, yeah, I have some, like, doesn't have to be really fashion, but for example, Lara Violeta, she launched her brand, a brand new magazine and it's quite amazing. She's very authentic and she really stays true to her heart. And you also see how creative she is with not a lot and also just like starting it from nothing and also working with a lot of other very talented young people and create a community. I really love that. And I also tried to do that with my own brand to create a group of people and work together. And I also really strongly believe in collaboration because it's very hard to do this just on your own. It's not possible, I think. So that influences me.
- [08:08]
Colleen Allen
Yeah, I love Grace Wells Bonner. I think she's made such amazing work and I think she's like really carved out her own space. I saw her Serpentine show in London that must have been like 2017 or 18 and I just thought it was really beautiful. And it was really amazing that she sort of had space to express something that felt totally like her and authentic in an outside of fashion way. And that's something that I would love to do eventually as well, while still keeping the identity of the brand.
- [08:47]
Ayo Adebiri
I think for me it would be Vivian Westwood. Her work was always, has always been so radical and political, such a force behind it and behind her and uncompromising, which I think is beautiful. So, yeah. Vivienne Westwood.
- [09:05]
Rachel Scott
Rachel, how do you feel? You weave sort of a radical point of view or your politics, if at all, into your clothes.
- [09:16]
Ayo Adebiri
I Like this. This idea of subversion, that's unexpected. People might not recognize that it's there. But I think my whole project is to subvert this idea of value and where value is placed. You know, we live in a world but in an industry that is very Eurocentric and in some ways supports, you know, the hegemony of white supremacy. And so I think that by saying things like craft is the meaning of value, of the meaning of luxury, not place or location, or, let's say, like pedigree, but really savoir faire, and that. That can be done anywhere and has been done everywhere for millennia. So I think that that is really the subversive move. And I also think that even in the ways I portray the characters and the imagery, it's people that haven't ever been included in nuanced conversations about style and life. And so I think that's super important because, yeah, it's just stories have been flattened for so long that we need a much more rounded perspective of what it means to be a black woman or a trans woman, and that she can be complex and nuanced and be sensual and soft while being all these other things. And I think that's super important to portray.
- [10:44]
Rachel Scott
And, Colleen, can you talk a little bit more? You mentioned designing sort of within a patriarchy, right?
- [10:50]
Colleen Allen
Yes.
- [10:51]
Rachel Scott
Talk a little bit more about what that means to you. I mean, it sounds like you've worked with a lot of women, so, you know, was that intentional, would you say? Did you choose to work with women, or was it strategic?
- [11:09]
Colleen Allen
I think I got lucky. I think that there was a moment where I realized that I don't think there was. I'd mainly worked for women, and I think that's rare to be a woman with mainly not only female bosses, but CEOs, and I think that's been really cool to see. And founders. I think that I started in menswear, and so I think for me, that felt a bit subversive at the time, but it was also a reaction to not seeing a type of femininity that I identified with in fashion. And so it felt more authentic to be making menswear because women's wear just wasn't resonating with who I am as a woman. And I think that I went out on my own because I still didn't see it. And it felt like this sort of personal need to create and discover my own identity from my own point of view of what it means to be a woman in this contemporary space. And I think there are a lot of male creative directors who are also, you know, working at houses that were founded by men. And even when women are taking over these houses, they are building on sort of codes that were initially created by men. And so I think it's sort of exciting to just draw from emotional, personal experience rather than, I don't know, these other male points of view.
- [12:56]
Rachel Scott
Interesting. So I think, like, looking at fashion in general now, there's two narratives, and we touched on it at the beginning a little bit. There's not enough women designers leading these big houses. And then, you know, another storyline we talk about a lot, especially in the last year or so, is that there are many, many challenges facing emerging designers, independent designers. In this world of large conglomerates, the. The three of you really tick these boxes. And so I want to talk to you, if you can, sort of talk a little bit about where you're at right now in your business, like, what are the pluses of being independent women designers and what are the negatives?
- [13:43]
Julie Kegles
For me, yeah, of course, the biggest challenge is balancing actually creativity with the practical side of running a business. Sometimes I have the feeling I have a million things to do at the same time. It goes from calling with the accountant to gluing something on the floor to, like, zoom calls with the production to drinking something on the doll. Like a fashion brand just asks so much work, like, so much. But I feel super, super lucky that I have two very strong women aside of me helping me with a whole brand. And so it's not alone. I'm not alone. And I'm very proud of the team, what we already have achieved together. It's only two collections now, but I can't really complain, actually, now for the future, of course, you want to keep on running that business and keeping it healthy and grow very slow and not push things, because also, if you push things, it doesn't work. Also, I don't really like to think too much about the future because then it can force things and it doesn't feel natural. And I like to just let it come to me and grow within the business and just to live in it and, like, see the. See the mistakes every day and try to do it better. And, like, my goal is also to make every collection better. Not only the collection, but also the communication and the. The show and just the work between each other. Yeah, everything. And that's also nice. I think in fashion that you can always start again every season. That's a plus. But on the other side, it's going very, very fast. So sometimes you can't keep up with it. But yeah, we're trying to do our best.
- [15:38]
Rachel Scott
Rachel, what about, what about you?
- [15:40]
Ayo Adebiri
It's definitely what, what Julie's saying about just the demands on our time. Unfortunately, design is like the smallest parts of what you do as a business owner, at least in my experience, because I'm largely managing it by myself. I'm the only full time employee of my business. That being said, of course I have an incredible group of collaborators that are so supportive, but no one's here on a full time basis. So that makes it challenging. But I think it's that way because of it basically access to capital and you know, I have. I. The business is growing incredibly and it continues to grow and, and it's. It's really amazing and I'm. I'm blown away by the success we've had and I also feel so lucky and so grateful to everyone that supports me along the way. But with all that said, cash flow is still the most difficult thing because I don't think people really understand how much you have to invest into building a business. And even with growth, if you're largely wholesale, which I am, any profit or something that might be profit goes back into building the business. So I'm going into the fourth year now and I hope that this year will be profitable, but I don't know because we're continuing to reinvest investing in DTC expansion and yeah, it's more than I could have ever imagined that you have to put back into the business. So that part's the most challenging. But I love a challenge. That's the thing that motivates me the most. I love when people don't expect me somewhere and I show up there. So, yeah, it's a weird addiction to trying to, I don't know what it is. Keep going, but it's one that's incredibly fulfilling. And so I'm super happy. And I'm super happy that there are more brands that are independent and more voices adding to the discourse I think that was missing for so long and at least of the last 10 years. So that I think it's really exciting right now.
- [17:41]
Rachel Scott
Colleen, do you have anything to add to that?
- [17:44]
Colleen Allen
I mean, I think they've definitely hit on the biggest points. I think that that's exactly it at the end of the day, does require so much capital to make it happen and to grow and expand to support the vision overall. And I think for me personally right now I'm also consulting as a designer for other people in order to support the brand and to support myself and you know, that it's two sided. I think it also is a great relief to be able to do that because it takes away a lot of the pressure and I can work from a place of creativity rather than sort of a place of anxiety and be able to sort of work with, you know, I think I want to be able to work with the levels of raw materials, of fabrics and work with factories that I feel are at a level of quality. And to do that as a young brand is a big investment. But ultimately I don't want to make the work that doesn't feel supportive of the industry. And yeah, I want to make quality things. And I think it's.
- [19:07]
Rachel Scott
Yeah.
- [19:07]
Colleen Allen
And same as well in terms of balancing the creative and sort of the day to day management of things. It becomes sort of really practical at the end of the day. But it's. I also agree with Rachel about it's great to have so many voices in the conversation right now because I think there's such a demand for newness within the industry from these luxury houses to create so many collections a year. And I think it would be great to be able to sort of shift perspectives and think about, rather than demanding so much work from these major creative directors being able to support other, bigger or support the industry overall. And so that newness can be found from different places rather than one source.
- [19:52]
Rachel Scott
People on the outside of fashion, I think, look at it like a very glamorous place to be, to be operating and listening to you. You really drive home the hard work that's involved. We're going to take a quick break. I'm Alex Schwartz.
- [20:21]
Ayo Adebiri
I'm Nomi Fry.
- [20:23]
Colleen Allen
I'm Vincent Cunningham. And this is Critics at Large, a New Yorker podcast for the culturally curious.
- [20:28]
Rachel Scott
Each week we're going to talk about a big idea that's showing up across the cultural landscape and we'll trace it through all the mediums we love. Books, movies, television, music, art.
- [20:37]
Nicole Phelps
And I always want to talk about.
- [20:38]
Rachel Scott
Celebrity gossip too, of course.
- [20:41]
Nicole Phelps
What are you guys excited to cover.
- [20:43]
Ayo Adebiri
In the next few months?
- [20:44]
Colleen Allen
There's a new translation of the Iliad that's coming out. Emily Wilson. Really excited to see whether I can read the Iliad again, whether I'm that literate.
- [20:52]
Nicole Phelps
I mean, the jury is out.
- [20:53]
Rachel Scott
I can't wait to hear Adam Driver go again in an Italian accent in Michael Mann's Ferrari. He can't stop. I mean, and bless him, I can't wait. Molto bene. Molto bene.
- [21:06]
Colleen Allen
We hope you'll join us for New episodes each Thursday. Follow critics at Large today wherever you.
- [21:11]
Rachel Scott
Get podcasts, you really don't want to miss this. Don't, don't miss this. Don't miss it.
- [21:16]
Nicole Phelps
See you soon. Everyone complains about winter. I love the excuse to stay home in January and February. I really commit to just watching TV in bed, watching my, you know, Britbox murder mystery and I am enjoying my Brooklinen sheets. Lloyd, my dog is a big fan. Lloyd is very discerning about linens and he's put his nose right into those pillows. So big plus for Brooklinen from Lloyd Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online@brooklinen.com that's B R O O K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today. Have you ever woken up with a strange symptom like random pain and immediately googled it or searched TikTok to see what's wrong?
- [22:14]
Colleen Allen
I have.
- [22:15]
Nicole Phelps
We've all gone down that rabbit hole. But it's time to get the help and care you really need with ZocDoc. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors. Choose the right one for your needs and click to instantly book an appointment. Appointments made through Zocdoc also happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com runthrough to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c d o c.com runthrough zocdoc.com runthrough.
- [23:15]
Rachel Scott
And we're back. I want to turn to your customers because obviously you launched your brands because you as designers felt you had something to say. But I want to hear like how are you finding out what your customers are saying or want to say to you and how you know, what kind of interaction do you have with them and how are you responding to, you know, what you're learning from your customers? Rachel, do you want to start?
- [23:46]
Ayo Adebiri
Sure.
- [23:46]
Colleen Allen
Yeah.
- [23:46]
Ayo Adebiri
This is one of my favorite parts actually. So my business is 93% wholesale and I have incredible, incredible retail partners and some of them here in New York. A lot are in the US and so I just visit the stores all the time. You know, like Bergdorf Goodman. I go to them maybe at least a couple times, if not more a year. And speaking with the team on the floor is one of the most interesting and exciting things I can do. Which it's amazing to meet with the buying team. I have so much respect for them and they give me such incredible feedback. But talking to the people who deal with customers on a daily basis, I've learned so much. I like always talk about the DMM of the of Laia in Berger Foodman Akbar. He's told me so many things about what the customers gravitate towards, what he thinks about my price point, what he thinks about the products offering. So that's been incredible. But also just spending time there, you actually see the customers, then you go in the fit sitting room with them and you understand like, okay, I love this Cher thing but like maybe you could make it a little bit easier for me to figure out how to wear it. And that's super special. You also learn about their lives, their like desire for how they want to feel when they get dressed and also what their day to day looks like and where they're going and how the clothes can support them. So I think it's super, super fun. Part of the job, Julie.
- [25:12]
Julie Kegles
For me it's really new actually and it's super heartwarming also to see it's always like they are really like wearing it and living their lives in the pieces. And also it's just so different on everyone and I'm always like, it's so nice. But then on the other one it's totally different and it's even nicer and it's like, oh my God, this is. You're like creating a community and you really have to like also stick to them and have and create this relationship with them. I think so Also I try to go to the stores here in Belgium and have this conversation about what the people are seeing in store. Also when there is a friend buying something, I can text them and like ask them things about finishing. Do you like this or that? And it's just super interesting what they think about it and also how they style it. I think it's quite amazing to see people style a piece with another brand and really like they want to communicate their worlds and their personality just by making this outfit together. And it becomes something else. It's so emotional to see actually. Also the first store that I visited was H. Lorenzo in LA to see the clothes hanging. And this was also quite a special moment. It really feels surreal and I'm very excited and curious to see how it develops. I'm hoping also that it's selling it. People are just happy with the clothes and feeling like confident in it.
- [26:49]
Rachel Scott
What about you, Colleen? Do you remember the first time you saw someone in your clothes?
- [26:55]
Colleen Allen
Yes. It's an amazing feeling to kind of see it reflected back at you, and it's cool to see who resonates with what. I think it can often surprise you. And, yeah, it's really a satisfying feeling. I love the way I've been showing it. Fashion Week has been with a showroom, and so there's both a rack of clothes and a model there to try things on. And it's sort of such a educational experience, walking through item by item on a rack with an editor or a buyer, and then being able to put the piece on a model and see the way that they're responding to seeing it in person for the first time. It's like a great sort of inside look on how somebody will also interact with it in a store. And so I really learned a lot from that experience. And that's been a really fun way for me to connect with sort of the community around the brand.
- [28:02]
Rachel Scott
So we just talked a little bit about the concrete, you know, interactions that you're having. But when you dream about dressing people, who do you dream of dressing? Colleen, I.
- [28:17]
Colleen Allen
There's so many people. I think that I'm always fantasizing about sort of these women in culture that have such a unique sort of point of view and sort of a bit of magic to them. I think about somebody like Solange who exists within this sort of pop universe, but she has her own world completely and like such a strong identity. Or somebody like Tilda Swinton, who has been in Hollywood and film for so long, but still is her own special carved out space. Or I love like, Mia Goth and people like that that I think just are sort of uncompromising in their identity. And I love the idea of women like that interacting with the brand.
- [29:07]
Rachel Scott
Rachel, what about you?
- [29:09]
Ayo Adebiri
Yeah, I mean, of course there's celebrity. I mean, I would. It would be a dream to have Rihanna wear it, you know, like a fellow island gal. But. But Solange has bought from me before, and that was a big dream. And it's still like, if she were to wear this again, I would just be so thrilled. But then it's also, you know, sometimes I do open studio and people come in to shop and then someone will come in who's like in their 70s. I have no idea what they do, but they're so interesting and just have like this powerful, also, like, sensual energy to them, and I find that super exciting. I just think it's more about an attitude. It's like kind of a Ease and a confidence and a mysteriousness in people that I find really interesting.
- [29:58]
Rachel Scott
Going back to the, you know, the being a woman in a man's business. Do you feel that that is the case, that it's still too much of a man's business? Rachel, do you want to take that one?
- [30:10]
Ayo Adebiri
Yeah, I'm nodding. I mean, it's not hard to see that it's a man's business. I mean, just look at all of the creative directors. I think Juan Granary put a post this morning. What was it? It was like the white man musical chairs in the creative director roles. And it's hard. I think it's such a complex situation because there are people there, white men, who are very deserving of some of these roles. But for me, it's an issue of. Of just access. You know, there probably are so many incredible women designers that are just not even considered or never get to that point. I mean, I say this a lot, but I started my career in Italy and I don't think I would have been able to open a brand as a black woman immigrant with a disability if I had still lived in Milan. I mean, that was only possible in New York. In America, where there is this more openness, it's less conservative. So, yeah, it's a really conservative industry at the end of the day, especially where power and money lies. And I don't know, all we can do is just continue to push independent brands and voices.
- [31:26]
Rachel Scott
Colleen, what about you?
- [31:28]
Colleen Allen
Yeah, I do think that it is still a male dominated industry, but again, I think I've been so lucky to work for so many incredible, powerful women. And so I hope that there is sort of a generational shift as the world evolves and that if we just keep making the work, that people will see it. And I do think that I have hope for women in the industry. I think that it's an exciting time and the conversation is being had, I think perhaps for the first time in a really real way, which is the start.
- [32:12]
Rachel Scott
I'm curious, you know, going back to what you were saying, Rachel, about the guys who are, you know, moving chairs around, swapping seats, knowing that this is the way it is for the moment. Do you aspire to a creative director job or do you imagine a completely different system?
- [32:34]
Ayo Adebiri
I'm of two minds in some ways. Of course. It would be incredible to be able to contribute and work at a scale like that. I mean, so much of being an independent brand is working with just full of limitations. It's just you're always up against something in some way, whether it's capital, resources, partner, manufacturing partners, time. So of course it would be a dream to be able to work in a situation where you have access to the most incredible ateliers at every end, teams and reach, and also to contribute to just a story that has a global impact. You know, that would be amazing. And I have like dreams of brands, maybe ones that, that I would love for a conglomerate to buy up and then call me to run. But at the same time, you know, I think someone like Rei Kawakubo is so incredible to me and she never, she never did that. And she's been so, is so powerful, has made such an incredible mark on the industry that maybe, maybe that's the dream.
- [33:47]
Rachel Scott
What about you, Julie? When you look ahead, do you imagine yourself in a, in a big brand as a creative director someday, or is that not part of your 20 year plan?
- [33:58]
Julie Kegles
Oh, never say never. But I can't imagine it at the moment. There is just too much work and I really want to work on my, my own brand. But of course, what Rachel told says it all. I think it should be amazing to have indeed, no worries about the quantities, a lot of people working with you. I think it's a dream. Of course, for me it's a dream. But not yet.
- [34:25]
Rachel Scott
I don't know, Colleen.
- [34:28]
Colleen Allen
I think that for me the dream sort of path is something like J.W. anderson has done in the sense that he's been a really successful creative director of a major house, but has also been able to keep his own brand in a really equally successful way. And that they have their own identities while also supporting each other, having a conversation with each other, I think that's really cool. And I think that the idea of a big conglomerate in not only investing in the designer and bringing them into their brand, but also investing in the brand itself and having sort of belief in that is something that I'd like to see more of. And you know, bringing it back to sort of my comment earlier about I think we do end up with this male musical chair is because these houses, again, were founded by men, most of them. And so I think the idea that if we can bring in and elevate more women founded brands to that level might change the conversation because starting with a female founder, I think is a really good place to start.
- [35:48]
Rachel Scott
Right. It sounds like in addition to women designers, we need a lot of women entrepreneurs who could dream up a conglomerate of the future where we're not building up heritage brands, we're trying to support and build up brands by living designers.
- [36:12]
Colleen Allen
Absolutely.
- [36:13]
Rachel Scott
I have heard, you know, over and over and over again that I. And, you know, it costs so much money to support and to build one of these, you know, billion dollar brands and that it's easier to do it with a, with a name that's been circulating for, for decades. But this formula now, I guess it was sort of born in the late 90s. The formula is going on 30 years old itself. And there will come a time when hopefully where, you know, a new formula is developed, and it will be nice if we are, we are building up contemporary names rather than decades or centuries old names. More with Rachel, Julie, and Colleen after the break.
- [37:12]
Ayo Adebiri
Hi, it's Cho Minardi. If you're not on the Vogue app.
- [37:16]
Nicole Phelps
Yet, what the hell are you doing?
- [37:17]
Ayo Adebiri
You can follow along with me and.
- [37:19]
Nicole Phelps
Other editors as we talk about everything happening in fashion. Think you're already a fashion expert? Well, find out how your Runway IQ stacks up against the Vogue community with an all new Runway genius leaderboard.
- [37:32]
Ayo Adebiri
So download the Vogue app today and you'll never miss a moment.
- [37:38]
Rachel Scott
So one thing that we hear a lot as editors at Vogue is that young and emerging designers need more support from the industry. And I want to know what that would look like to you. What do you feel you need from the industry?
- [37:57]
Julie Kegles
My, my first thought is like, cash flow wise, more deposits when, when you're selling your collection. That would help a lot. Yeah, that's actually the most important thing, I think.
- [38:10]
Ayo Adebiri
Yeah, I agree with that.
- [38:11]
Rachel Scott
Meaning not having to wait for the, for the money from the wholesalers. Right?
- [38:16]
Julie Kegles
Yeah, yeah. And also, like, for everyone, it's different. For every store, it's different. Sometimes it's like 15%, sometimes in the beginning, then deposits, sometimes it's 50. Some people really, really support you and understand the fact that you're emerging brand, and they do like 100% by forehand. And that's quite amazing. But it would be really nice, cash flow wise, that stars really do understand this matter.
- [38:49]
Ayo Adebiri
Yeah, it's like the deposits, but then it's also making sure to pay on time. And I think that the industry, as we know and as we've seen, has. They just have assumed this position that they are. They don't have any liability. So all the liability really falls on the brands because brands have to pay for manufacturing ahead of time. It's very rare that a brand has terms with manufacturing partners. So it's kind of unthinkable that a store would assume that they could have net 30, net 90 terms with the independent brand. So I think. I mean, I've been lucky and I have really great partners, but I do think it's just a general practice in the industry that needs to change because we've seen what's happened in the past, for example, with Barney's, all of the people that got, you know, crushed from them closing, and also, of course, matches. It's just not a healthy relationship to wholesale and small brands. So I think that needs to change. But I do think that the industry, at least what I've seen with editors and stylists, are very supportive. And I will say that I would not be anywhere if it wasn't for stylists in New York and editors in New York just even talking about me. So I think that that system is actually amazing and I'm so grateful for that. But, yeah, it's like, I think people and I've been very lucky this year. Last year was a runner up for the cbff. This year I just got this James Fraser Award. But I think people just assume, like you were saying, Nicole, that it's so glamorous, there's so much money going around, but there really isn't. And so when there are opportunities for grants and things like that, we need more of them. Because it's just if you're operating at the same level as a conglomerate in terms of products price point positioning in a store, but you don't have billions of dollars behind it, it's just not an even playing field. And it's just so many businesses died because of this. So, yeah, as much financial support as we can get would be amazing.
- [40:51]
Colleen Allen
Yeah, absolutely. I think absolutely four terms are so important, and grants and funding and things like that. And the industry, New York especially, has been so, so supportive. And that's been so cool to see editors and stylists getting involved in and supporting small brands is so incredible. And I think that if to see more sort of support in aligning brands with other collaborators that are also looking for that sort of support, even, you know, hair and makeup sponsorships and working with modeling agencies and spaces to have shows and showrooms like, I think I would love to see. I think there's so much we could do to elevate brands during Fashion Week and support them and companies that would love to do so, but there really isn't that sort of infrastructure for people just starting out to connect with each other and with the industry overall. And I think if there was more of that, we would see some really just incredible elevated work come out of it, which would be really exciting and Fun.
- [42:04]
Ayo Adebiri
I'm so glad you mentioned space. I just want to jump in about that because space is, is. Is one of the biggest challenges, especially when it comes to presentations. And I really feel like there should be a way. There's so much empty space in New York.
- [42:20]
Colleen Allen
Yeah.
- [42:20]
Ayo Adebiri
So much massive commercial empty space in New York. And I'm not a tax expert, but I have a feeling that if they donate this space to Fashion Week, let's say at large and independent brands could have access to space for a day. It would be a tax write off and it would help build just culture in the thing. Colleen?
- [42:39]
Colleen Allen
Yeah, yeah. I think that there are such, you know, maybe hu. They're huge things for us as small brands that really make a logistical and financial impact and even just those small things for somebody else, for a company that might have a free office space, that makes a world of difference. And I think that, like, those things shouldn't be overlooked or felt unimportant. I think every, every way to support brands is so appreciated.
- [43:09]
Rachel Scott
Yeah. It feels like it's an opportunity for a lot of the bigger New York brands to step in. Right. And support. It also makes me think of what you're saying about, you know, the tents in Bryant park. Way back in the day, in the late 90s and the early 2000, their, you know, Fashion Week was a little bit more centralized and maybe it was a little bit easier than it is now. And especially, you know, with things changing with IMG and spring studios, you know, there's like sort of another avenue for support is sort of gone away too. So it probably presents even more challenges when you're thinking ahead to Fashion Week in February and, you know, further on in September. I guess I want to pause now and ask you if you have any advice for each other. I know, you know, Rachel, you've been working for a few years longer as an independent brand, so maybe you have some advice for Julie and Colleen, but, you know, vice versa too. Or if it's not advice, maybe it's just memos to each other, things that you'd like to. That you'd like to say.
- [44:27]
Ayo Adebiri
I think we have to take care of ourselves.
- [44:32]
Colleen Allen
That's great advice.
- [44:33]
Ayo Adebiri
This is not cursing the kettle, but I have not been taking care of myself and I've literally had multiple interventions in the last month and a half that if I don't, then all of this won't exist. So, yeah, we. That is, it has to be priority as things grow. That's it. That's all.
- [44:53]
Julie Kegles
I think just trust yourself and Also, only do things that makes your heart race. I think that's also the most important. And have fun.
- [45:08]
Colleen Allen
I'm just receiving the advice. Yeah, I guess I'm with you both. I'm really grateful to be here and to have you guys a part of this.
- [45:25]
Rachel Scott
How about this? Do you have any questions for me?
- [45:29]
Ayo Adebiri
Do you have advice for us, Nicole?
- [45:32]
Colleen Allen
Great.
- [45:34]
Rachel Scott
I think the more that you can be in conversation and communication with each other, the better and stronger you all will be. You're obviously not in it together, but you are in it together and keep lines of communication open. And don't be afraid to ask each other for advice or to come to. Like you said, Rachel, the stylists and the editors in the industry and ask questions. I think a lot of times as. Maybe as women, but just maybe in general, people are afraid to act like they don't, you know, know it all or they don't have it all together. But, you know, we all learn so much, I think, when we. When we open up and talk to each other and ask questions and not to sound saccharine and sappy, but life is really just about learning, you know, and. And so that would be my advice. Just be. Be open to receiving, but also to giving.
- [46:49]
Colleen Allen
That's great advice. Thank you.
- [46:52]
Julie Kegles
Thank you.
- [46:53]
Rachel Scott
What does success look like to you? Like, we've talked a lot about, you know, challenges and dreams. What would produce a sense of contentment?
- [47:06]
Ayo Adebiri
I think for me, it's. It's two things. It's adding something in a meaningful way that didn't exist before to the industry would be amazing. And then separately, and this is my dream for myself and for all of us is longevity. You know, like, I would love to be a brand that in 20 years is a global luxury brand. Yeah.
- [47:29]
Colleen Allen
I think all. All I've ever wanted to do is. Is create. And I think that I just want to be able to keep doing this. And I think success would mean, you know, being able to be creative in an uninhibited way and to be supported in a way that feels sustainable and balanced. Both, you know, supported, not meaning necessarily financially, but just to have the space to be able to be a part of the conversation and to. To make the work. And if it's not being made for me, it's stuck in my head. And so to be able to keep sort of putting things out into the world is the best feeling. And that's all I really ever want to do.
- [48:20]
Julie Kegles
For me, success would mean a balanced company and keep on growing in a healthy way with very passionate people around me. And also just jumping up to people wearing the brand in like a unknown city at a random place would mean also like success.
- [48:48]
Rachel Scott
Yes. Well, I hope that, I hope that happens for you, Julie. That'll be, that'll be a fun day. All right. Thank you all so much.
- [48:55]
Ayo Adebiri
Great.
- [48:55]
Colleen Allen
Thank you so much. Hi.
- [49:02]
Rachel Scott
Also check out my article featuring Rachel, Colleen and Julie. We'll drop it in the show notes. And Vogue business just last week published a new article titled why are so many creative directors still white men? It's another great addition to this conversation. That's it for the run through. We'll see you Thursday.
- [49:30]
Nicole Phelps
The run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of global audio. Ready to add a touch of Vogue to your collection, browse shop.vogue.com for exclusive merch like limited edition mugs. And here's a treat. Get an exclusive 15% discount with code VOGUEPOD15 at checkout. Happy shopping.
- [50:16]
Julie Kegles
From PRX.