Two Top Wedding Planners Share Trade Secrets

Summary

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The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Two Top Wedding Planners Share Trade Secrets

Date: May 28, 2026
Hosts: Chloe Malle & Nicole Phelps
Guests: Marcie Blum & Melissa Sullivan

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Episode Overview

This episode offers listeners a rare inside look at the world of luxury wedding planning with two of Vogue’s favorite planners: industry oracle Marcie Blum and rising star Melissa Sullivan. Host Chloe Malle steers a lively conversation on the evolution of weddings, balancing tradition with creativity, industry secrets, crisis management, and how pop culture, social media, and guest experience shape today’s celebrations. From the price of celebrity nuptials to the etiquette minefields around destination weddings and bridezillas, this episode is a goldmine of wisdom, anecdotes, and insider tips, peppered with humor and candor throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet the Planners: Career Journeys

• Marcie Blum:

  • Started as a chef after attending Le Cordon Bleu and the Culinary Institute of America.
  • Moved from restaurant consulting and ownership to planning weddings and corporate events.
  • First wedding planned in 1986, began with an ad in New York magazine.
  • “I’m a good cook. I was a terrible chef. I’m really not very good at making the same thing every day taste exactly as it did the day before.” (21:39)

• Melissa Sullivan:

  • Began wedding career in 2010 after studying at FIT, interning with Colin Cowie, then moving to California to work for Mindy Weiss.
  • Launched her own business post-COVID.
  • Learned the importance of forming deep client connections from Mindy Weiss. (23:11)

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2. The Evolution of Weddings

• Weddings have steadily moved from formulaic, traditional formats to highly personalized and creative expressions.
• Signature Cocktails: Once a novel idea, now ubiquitous.
• Creativity vs. Spending:
  • “Creativity is the new flex as opposed to money.” – Marcie Blum (24:23)
  • Recent examples include video-game-inspired weddings with immersive elements and costumes.

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3. Navigating Destination Weddings and Logistics

• Holiday Weekend Dilemmas:
  • Holiday weddings can be divisive; closer relationships fare better with these dates.
  • “If you are going to invite people you work with…and your boss, they are extremely annoyed...” – Marcie (26:26)
• Destination Realities:
  • Everyone tends to show up at destination weddings, even when you think some won’t.
  • “Don’t do it, because they’re all gonna come and you’re gonna be sorry.” – Marcie (27:32)
• Logistical Nightmares:
  • Difficulties in remote locations—Montenegro cited as particularly hard due to customs and tariffs.
  • Shipping challenges often lead to “the wedding version of Chopped” (28:04).

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4. The High Stakes Game of Celebrity Weddings

• Booking headliners is like “pin the tail on the price” – you make an offer, agents rarely share a price window.
• “Some people…are absolutely lovely…others…you’re like, ‘Wow, I don’t know, we just spent a zillion dollars and I’m not sure anybody got it right.’” – Marcie (31:03)
• Complexities of international performers: Work permits, justification for large entourages, unique rider requests, etc.

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5. Security, Anonymity & The Fine Art of the Secret Wedding

• For high-profile clients, invitations may omit exact details, and verifying guests often involves voice calls.
• Major concern: “It’s always someone’s cousin…” who leaks information (32:57).

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6. The Psychology of Planning: Therapy & Mediation

• Planners often act as couples’ therapists.
• Importance of addressing conflicts with respect and kindness; sometimes requires separate conversations (35:42).
• Money can complicate decision-making power (“Who’s paying for it?” is always relevant).

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7. Controlling the Experience: Crisis, Trends & Social Media

• Bridezilla Phenomenon: Most “bridezillas” were challenging to begin with; stress accentuates traits.
  • Focus is to “remind them there is life after this” and focus on the real priorities (37:24).
• Social Media Impact:
  • Couples are more conscious of privacy and curation. Some want phone bans or strict controls on sharing.
  • Social comparison can create a sense of wedding competition among social circles (40:06).
• Explosion of Vendors:
  • Rise of wedding stylists, content creators, publicists, and elaborate multi-day events complicate logistics.

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8. Industry Trends: Destinations, Decor, and Guest Experience

• Popular Destinations: Lake Como once hot, now resistant to weddings; working relationships with locations can change rapidly.
• Themes, Mood Boards & Dress Codes: More creative, sometimes prescriptive with Pinterest boards, but can border on rude or excessive (53:21).
• Black tie optional: Universally disliked by planners as “passive aggressive”—better to pick a clear dress code (54:32).

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9. Etiquette Gold: Seating Charts, Family Dynamics & “The Wedding Planner Stare”

• Carefully curated seating (never random!) is crucial; switching place cards is major faux pas (51:28).
• Family rifts require delicate, often invisible, mediation by planners.
• “Wedding planner stare”: If your planner is smiling but distracted, something is up—a secret comms channel is often in play (44:09).

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10. What to Splurge On & What to Skip

• Splurge:
  • “Staff, every time. I would throw out all the flowers…get more waiters.” – Marcie (60:34)
  • Guest comfort and experience—service, cleanliness, food, and unique personal touches that last.
  • Personal investments, like tablecloths you can later use at home.
• Skip:
  • Over-the-top invitations or afterparties that don’t fit the couple’s personality/lifestyle.
  • Follow your own priorities instead of magazine checklists.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creativity:
  “Creativity is the new flex as opposed to money.” – Marcie Blum (24:23)

• On headliners:
  “It’s like pin the tail on the price…If you say, you know, $500,000, they'll go, ‘ha, ha ha’. I was like, can you give me a window?...No.” – Marcie (30:09)

• On bridezillas:
  “I have never met someone who was a lovely human who became a bridezilla. I’ve met people who were difficult, who became deranged during their wedding.” – Marcie (37:24)

• On holiday weddings:
  “I think New Year’s is a real exception where I always think it's okay because people are desperate for something to do.” – Chloe (26:45)

• On the rise of behind-the-scenes vendors:
  “Now there are wedding stylists, there are wedding publicists, there are content creators…I mean, it’s wild. It’s almost like billing for a film.” – Chloe (40:23)

• On trends they'd like to see end:
  “Trying to be too traditional with things…maybe being a little too cool.” – Melissa (44:38, 45:40)

• On splurges:
  “Staff every time. I would throw out all the flowers if I had to…get more waiters.” – Marcie (60:34)

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Important Timestamps

• Meet the Planners / Career Origins: 19:03–23:11
• Biggest Wedding Industry Changes: 23:41–24:48
• Destination and Holiday Wedding Etiquette: 25:22–27:37
• Logistical Nightmares / International Weddings: 27:38–29:52
• Booking Performers for Weddings: 30:03–32:14
• Anonymous/Celebrity Weddings: 32:16–33:28
• Couple Therapy in Wedding Planning: 34:35–36:53
• On Controlling Bride/Groomzilla Moments: 37:24–38:55
• Social Media's Impact: 38:55–40:23
• Vendor Explosion: 40:23–41:37
• Peak/Unloved Trends & Dress Codes: 44:38–54:58
• Seating Chart Etiquette: 50:23–52:35
• Cake, Food & Flowers Trends: 56:16–60:19
• What’s Worth the Investment: 60:23–62:06

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Tone and Style

The conversation is witty, candid, and full of industry savvy. Marcie’s dry humor and directness pairs well with Melissa’s thoughtful, personable insights. Chloe deftly guides the conversation and draws out lively stories and practical advice, with plenty of laughter and relatable moments for anyone in or out of the wedding whirl.

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking behind-the-scenes expertise on luxury weddings, from etiquette to creative planning, with plenty of trade secrets, tactful advice, and real-world experience from two of the field’s most respected voices.

Transcript

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[Chloe Mao]

This is the run through and I'm Chloe Mao and this week Choma is at Estelle Manor at British Vogue's wellness retreat in Oxfordshire. I'm very jealous. It looks fabulous, but my co host Nicole Phelps is back with me in the studio to run through the headlines of the week. Hi Nicole.

[Nicole Phelps]

Hi Chloe.

[Chloe Mao]

On today's episode, I spoke to two fantastic wedding planners, Marcie Blum and Melissa Sullivan, about what goes into making the high profile weddings we love to feature on vogue.com and we talked about everything from the biggest bridezillas and groomzillas, what these women think you should actually splurge on for your big events. And we even speculated a bit on where Taylor and Travis will get married. First, though, Nicole, tell us about some Vogue Runway scoops of the week.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, Henry Zenkoff, who is a former Vogue and CFDA Fashion Fund funder, was named the artistic director of Diane von Furstenberg. And it's a new role at the brand, so we couldn't be prouder here. Vogue Henry is someone who we've watched since he launched his brand in 2020 and there are a lot of people inside One World Trade who love his colorful knits and geometric prints and patterns and sequins. I love his sequins and sequins. And so he's a really good fit for Diane von Furstenberg. In fact, he worked at Diane von Furstenberg in the mid 2010s when Jonathan Saunders was there.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes. So it's a nice bit of a homecoming. And I actually went and had lunch with DVF last Thursday right before Nicole went and interviewed Henry. And it was fun to see. You know, she has this amazing office building on 12th street, and she's been there for 20 years, right before the High Line was opened. And it's six floors of her office space and her living space. She has an apartment above it. And so as you sort of walked, like in a dollhouse, you went past, Henry was sort of working on mood boards and fabrics. And then there's also her husband, Barry Diller has a floor for his little island park, which is across the highway. And so you really saw this whole sort of the DVF world at work. And it's fun to see how Henry's already been integrated into that. And I'm very excited for him.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes. That's a great building. It's been through so many different lives. I remember seeing DVF shows there way back in.

[Chloe Mao]

Totally. And all the resort presentations there. There was been. I know DVF's a bit like a cat with nine lives.

[Marcie Blum]

She is.

[Nicole Phelps]

And there's been a lot of creative directors who have worked for her, but this one feels like it could really stick because, as I said, he's been there before, so he gets it. And they know each other. Dion said that they come from the same tribe. I guess both of their parents hail from a town that I cannot pronounce in what was the Kingdom of Romania, but is now Moldova.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes. Their grandparents were born in the same town, so Dion has convinced their cousins. And DVF is now spending more time in Venice. She. She officially considers herself a Venetian resident. And so she's very happy to have someone be taking the reins at the brand. And I have to say, I feel like with all the nostalgia for different decades past, right now there is such a. DVF does feel cool.

[Nicole Phelps]

Do you have any wrap dresses in your closet?

[Chloe Mao]

I don't have any wrap dresses. I have one DVF dress from maybe was the Jonathan Saunders collection, but it's a one shoulder dress with stripes of different scarf prints. And I wore it to the first Vogue World New York. I've worn it. I wear it a lot. It's a very easy dress. I think her clothes are very wearable.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes. Easy and effortless and comfortable are all her signatures.

[Chloe Mao]

I think she would say his debut will be September Fashion Week. September New York Fashion Week. So that's very exciting. Something to look forward to. And Henry, I didn't realize. I actually had coffee with Henry two days before that and he was being very tight lipped, very coy, very coy. And he, you know, he's so interesting because he was born in St. Petersburg in Russia and moved to New Jersey as I think a 10 year old. And he said that his time at DVF originally was what really shaped his love of color and his vision as a designer of his own brand. So it's nice that there's this cyclical nature of this. And yeah, I actually had coffee with Henry the day of Arthur's birthday and so I made him go to the toy store and get a balloon with me. Okay. Nicole, are you a Knicks fan?

[Nicole Phelps]

No.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Scandal.

[Nicole Phelps]

I'm a Giants fan and we have suffered ourselves, but not quite as long as Nick's fans. I think the last time the Giants were in the super bowl was like 20, 2012 or so.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, that's farther than the Knicks. This is the first time in 27 years. And so we did a fun revisiting Knicks on court style or courtside style.

[Nicole Phelps]

I loved that slideshow. I loved seeing Chloe Sevigny's, you know, early 2000 boots and how fashion has changed and not changed simultaneously.

[Chloe Mao]

That's true.

[Nicole Phelps]

And of course Beyonce and Jay Z are in there. Ben Stiller, how could he not be? And Spike Lee, two of the most die hard Knicks.

[Chloe Mao]

The Mount Rushmore of Knicks fans.

[Marcie Blum]

Yes.

[Nicole Phelps]

And you know, Timo Tay and Kylie, of course in there.

[Chloe Mao]

Timothy and Kylie have really become the stalwarts I love. I still love that he chose the Knicks game over the Met Gala. Nicole, I have been very touched, but it also makes me sad to see how the collective Internet has reacted to the Everlane Sheehan sale ever since sort of news of it started trickling out a couple weeks ago or a bit of a week ago. I loved Everlane back in the day. I was a big fan. I remember I wrote the piece for Vogue about them in 2019 and went to San Francisco and I just was really believed in what Michael Priceman was doing. And I think that it was one of the few sustainable businesses that actually could show you their transparency. So I just thought this felt so sad and sort of end of days.

[Nicole Phelps]

Well, Michael had walked away from the brand several years ago after it was sold to Elle Catterton. So it's not quite like the founder himself handing over the brand to Sheehan, but it does signal a potentially different kind of future for Everlane. Even though the current CEO is staying and insisting that Everlane is Everlane and it won't change. I mean, that will remain to be seen.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean I unsubscribed from my newsletters.

[Marcie Blum]

I.

[Chloe Mao]

No, no, no more from me. But we also, we had the exclusive with Michael Priceman. Alyssa Hardy interviewed him about how he felt about the sale because he's not involved anymore. He found out 20 minutes before it was announced he is starting his own new company that we don't know too much about yet because I have a suspicion he's not sure exactly what it's going to be yet. But he launched the website yesterday.

[Nicole Phelps]

Still radical dot com. I don't think that young people's interests in sustainable shopping has changed. I just think the way that they're going about it is really different. I think that since Everlane launched, the resale market has totally boomed. And now if you're thinking economically and sustainably when you're shopping, you're going to resale sites or you're going to vintage stores or thrift stores. And you know, my teenage son, I mean there is no shame. He. It wouldn't even cross his mind to, you know, ask a question, do I want something secondhand? It's almost like the only place they shop.

[Odoo Sponsor Announcer]

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[Chloe Mao]

My 20 year old niece will not buy new clothes. It's kind of remarkable, her commitment. She came to New York for a week and the entire. It was like an odyssey around Manhattan and Brooklyn to secondhand stores. All that she all found on TikTok. So yes, I think you're right. That, that does make me feel a bit better. Nicole, what did you do for the long weekend?

[Nicole Phelps]

I was up in Connecticut, in rainy Connecticut with my mom and dad celebrating my dad's 85th birthday.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh my God.

[Nicole Phelps]

What did you do? It's her birthday today, actually. I told her to make my favorite Bacardi rum cake, which is made with a lot of Bacardi rum.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh my God.

[Nicole Phelps]

Moist and delicious. And we also had a salad from her garden. She has a. Oh, ready? Yeah. She keeps a plot on a communal farm in her little town in Connecticut. And we had the first, first fresh leaves.

[Chloe Mao]

The farmers who live down the road from us in Connecticut were very upset about the scorching heat followed by the monsoon rains. I said it was not good for their crops.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, I think it confused her too about when to plant, what her planning schedule is.

[Chloe Mao]

All CSA might be delayed.

[Marcie Blum]

Uh.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, yes. We had Arthur Albert's sixth birthday. It was Disney villain themed. And it moved into our garage, but it was wet. It was very wet. But, you know, everyone was very happy. And my mother dressed up as Maleficent. And I made the mistake of telling Artie that he couldn't open any gifts until everyone left. So he just walked around the party asking everyone when they were leaving. So I will not be doing that next year. And then Artie and I went to see the Sheep Detectives on Sunday. It is the best movie of the year.

[Nicole Phelps]

I tried to take my nephews to see it, but they had already seen it.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole Phelps]

So I'm still waiting.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean, there needs to be an Oscar category for animal voiced Detectives.

[Nicole Phelps]

Don't tell me who's the guilty party.

[Chloe Mao]

No, no, no. It's very exciting. I want to know, Nicole, what you're like in deep in resort reviews and appointments. What are the resort highlights and trends you're seeing so far?

[Nicole Phelps]

I really appreciated at Louis Vuitton the collaboration with Keith Haring's estate. I thought the story behind that valise that opened the show that it once. Well, that first of all, that it was a Louis Vuitton valise from the 1930s and Keith Haring owned it and he tagged it. He gave it to his roommate, and his roommate sold it at auction, like within the last five or 10 years. And Vuitton bought it back. And the archive, very generously. Nicola said on our podcast that they loaned it to him, which is not necessarily a given. Once something is in an archive, it's hard to get it out of the archive onto the Runway. So that was a quite a cool moment. And the theme of that show for him was really about, you know, New York and the inspiration it's been to him his whole life. And, you know, uptown, downtown. Where is that dividing line? Is there a dividing line? Keith Haring was someone who crossed the line, you know, So I appreciated this show from Nicola. It felt urban and cool and like quite a departure from the sort of wild, nomadic trip he took us on in March. And, you know, more broadly speaking, it's still sort of early days for resort. Have noticed quite a bit of black, which is not very vogue. Interesting, but a lot of black. When you look at that. That carousel on Vogue Runway and all of the first looks really are black with the. Except I think of Vuitton and Dior.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. Okay. I was intrigued by or I appreciated Laird's side by side of Edwardian sketches and how that was reflected in Nicolas collection because you did get this sort of summer in the City vibe from it with Keith Haring and the boxing gloves. And then to see the real clear inspiration of the Edwardian ruffles and the shape from the neck ruffles to the shoes, I thought was really fun and sort of gave it a more nuanced perspective.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yes, I think the references are. They always run deep with him.

[Chloe Mao]

But I loved your conversation with Nicola. I hope everyone has listened to it. Do you watch the French Open tennis?

[Nicole Phelps]

Not much. But I was paying close attention to Naomi Osaka's outfit because we wrote about it on vogue.com, and I noticed that it was by the Swiss couturier Kevin Germanier.

[Chloe Mao]

I know I wasn't familiar with him. Is he someone, everyone.

[Nicole Phelps]

He is like very extravagant. When I think of him, I think of sort of over the top and sequins and lots of drama. And I would say that Naomi's look definitely served that. And then of course, you know, she, she took it off. It was basically like a full length skirt with beading and, and paired with a sleeveless corseted top. And you know, she took it off afterwards and played in a very cute little Nike outfit and won her first round.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, I do want to say that I am really excited about David Sedaris new essay collection, the Land and Its People. And we have an interview with David Sedaris that I'm very excited to read. It's also heading into the centennial birthday celebration of Marilyn Monroe and there is a retrospective at Film Forum that I would love to get to. And also we've been doing some great

[Nicole Phelps]

stories on vogue.com including Laird Borelli Pearson's ode to Maryland references on the Runway.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm very excited about that and I really do feel like we are launching headfirst into wedding season. So perfect timing for Marcie Blum and Melissa Sullivan. We sort of had one industry oracle and one up and coming wedding planners and so it was fun to hear them in conversation with each other. But I also. We get a lot of questions about how much Vogue weddings cost, what the price arena is for them, what people are spending their money on. And so Shelby Wax just did a really fun breakdown of what Vogue weddings really cost. And I thought the way that she mapped it out was very funny and made sense. It was sort of a lavish wedding weekend in Tuscany is over a million. A coastal celebration in New England is going to set you back about 472k. Um, an intimate wedding in Canada is the only one probably under a hundred K. So yes, I, I thought, oh, no, a backyard wedding in France is 40,000. I love I yeah, I thought this was really fun and really did some good research and reporting onto what goes into that and will be very helpful for real brides. And with that, let's get into our conversation with wedding planners Marcie Blum and Melissa Sullivan. Nicole, thank you for joining for headlines.

[Nicole Phelps]

Thanks for having me, Chloe.

[Chloe Mao]

Happy resort to those who celebrate

[Marcie Blum]

the

[Chloe Mao]

run through will be back in a moment.

[Marcie Blum]

We are in uncharted territory. Staff writer Evan Osnos on the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Chloe Mao]

I think all of us right now

[Marcie Blum]

are trying to make sense of an

[Chloe Mao]

avalanche of news every day and there aren't very many places where you can go and understand how something looks in the grand scope of history and context. That's what I come to the New Yorker for.

[Marcie Blum]

I'm David Remnick. An egg. Each week my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world and I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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[Chloe Mao]

I am so excited to be speaking with two of Vogue's favorite wedding planners, Marcie Blum and Melissa Sullivan. Welcome ladies. How are we feeling?

[Marcie Blum]

We're feeling great.

[Chloe Mao]

Fine. Tuesday morning. Welcome to the show. I Want to know if you two have ever met before.

[Marcie Blum]

We have.

[Melissa Sullivan]

We have.

[Marcie Blum]

Apparently, I. I said something funny to you. I hope it was funny and not.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It was hilarious.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, good.

[Chloe Mao]

What did you. What did Marcy. What wisdom did Marcy dispense?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Well, we had become friends on Instagram first. It was really nice. I think you reached out and just said nice things. And we were interviewing.

[Marcie Blum]

I remember now, you were doing. You are doing some beautiful work, and it's so interesting and innovative. I was like, ah, somebody new. How wonderful. Thank you.

[Melissa Sullivan]

We finally met, I think it was last year at a networking event planner party. And I said, marcy, it's so nice to finally meet you. And you said something funny like, my new friend and competitor. I'm not sure how I feel about you yet. It was just hilarious.

[Marcie Blum]

I said, you know, my editor retired five years ago, so I just. Everything just comes out with that.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I was honored, actually.

[Marcie Blum]

Thank you. And yes. Well, I appreciate competing with you. That is okay. Unlike some of the planets.

[Chloe Mao]

As I say, planets is amazing.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I like that.

[Chloe Mao]

It's like when Vogue. Dodie Kazanian, our art writer, did a piece like, 15 years ago on the women who worked at Gagosian called the Gogos. Yen, that's hilarious.

[Marcie Blum]

I know a lot of them. Yeah, that's great.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to hear Marcy, how and when you started your career. Cause I was reading last night, and I was like, oh, I didn't realize that Marcy started as a chef.

[Marcie Blum]

I did. I went to performing arts high school fame and was working as an actress. Ha ha. Working, you know, as a waitress. But I was an actress. And then, believe it or not, myself and 20 of my friends bought a farm in Vermont.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my gosh.

[Marcie Blum]

It was 1970, in lieu of college. And we went up there and, as I always say, planted vegetables upside down for a year and then said, okay, this isn't working. Came back to New York, I didn't know what I wanted to do, and my mother was a great cook, and I started taking cooking courses, and I went to Cordon Bleu in Paris and loved it even more.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. Real Julia Child.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah. It was really amazing. And the Culinary Institute of America started accepting females, so there were 50 of us in the first year.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow.

[Marcie Blum]

It was kind of fun. Yeah. That's exciting. It was. And I. And I, you know, worked as a chef. I'm. I'm a good cook. I was a terrible chef. I'm really not very good at making the same thing every day. Tastes exactly as it did the day

[Chloe Mao]

Before, So that's an interesting distinction. And I think there is a real one. A good cook, but not a good chef.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah, it's not fun, you know. And so I was teaching cooking, I was consulting. Someone hired me to do all the consulting for their restaurants and menus. And I worked my ex husband and who we're still very good friends. And we owned at one point, you know, six restaurants, including Gage and Tolner in Brooklyn. I was there for Gail Simmons birthday party. And I kept saying, everyone's like, what's wrong with you? I said, well, I used to own this place. It's so weird being here. In either case, people started asking me if I could do events outside of the places I was staying.

[Chloe Mao]

What was the first event you planned top to tail?

[Marcie Blum]

The very first one was I put an ad in New York magazine and some very kind person hired me for probably $10, and I planned a wedding at a loft in the West Village.

[Chloe Mao]

So you went out of the park

[Marcie Blum]

with weddings, corporate events, and weddings, but the very first one was a wedding.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. What year was your first wedding, Marcie?

[Marcie Blum]

86.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay. What about you, Melissa?

[Marcie Blum]

Be careful.

[Melissa Sullivan]

2010 is when I started. Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

What was your path to planning?

[Melissa Sullivan]

I studied here in New York City. I went to fit and I had a college internship with Colin Cowie, who's another planner here in New York. And that turned into a job for five years. And then I moved to California, worked for two others, and then Post Covid branched out finally and started my own business.

[Chloe Mao]

Five years ago, you worked for Mindy Weiss in California. Yes. What was a lesson Mindy taught you?

[Melissa Sullivan]

So many. She has the gift of gab in a way like no one else. And I. It was so interesting watching her connect with her clients in a really deep way, which I think has really helped me to make, like, intimate connections.

[Chloe Mao]

I wonder, Marcie, how. What has been the biggest change in the wedding industry in the last 10 years and 20 years?

[Marcie Blum]

I think 20 years ago, which, you know, I just read something in the Times last week about what a new trend to personalize your wedding. I was like, are you kidding? You know, that was 20 years ago. Okay, so I think 20 years ago, it went from being a formulaic, you know, first dance, cake cutting, blah, blah, blah, to, you know, how does it evoke who you are? And that.

[Chloe Mao]

What's an example of that?

[Marcie Blum]

Signature cocktails originally, which now seems like, are you kidding? But then it was as if, you know, I invented the moon. I was, what a great idea.

[Nicole Phelps]

What was your first signature cocktail you ever did.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, I'm sure it was a martini that we called something else, like, you know, the Mr. And Mrs. Fluffle Tini, whatever. And I was like, I'm brilliant. And then monograms and things like that that became really. It was all personalized. But I think now in the past 10 years, it is maybe not exactly who you are, but who you'd like to be is more of what is happening. How you see yourself in the best case example, or the most creative example or the most arty Persona, you know. And I say it all the time. I think creativity is the new flex as opposed to money.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting. What's an example of creativity versus just spend?

[Marcie Blum]

We just produced a wedding for a wonderful couple who is. She's a singer. They're in the video game business. And it basically took place. It was in the whole Delumiere downtown, which is a video mapping establishment. And the wedding really took place in a big part of their video game. Like all video mapped, you know, so it was very, very cool. And, you know, a little bit of Ren faire, a little bit of people at costumes. We had a costume shop for the guests.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my gosh.

[Marcie Blum]

People got such a kick. Everyone's. And I'm sure everyone's bored by wedding. People get. They get an invitation, and unless it's from one of us, and it's not just the two of us. There's like, you know, let's say 20 of us. Unless it's from one of us, they're like, oh, God, please don't make me have a holiday weekend at someone's wedding, you know? Cause they're boring.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, that's a good etiquette question that I was just discussing with a younger friend who's on a wedding. Her wedding circuit in her early 30s. Yes or no to a wedding over a holiday weekend?

[Marcie Blum]

You know, I did. This is not to name drop, but it's just so funny. Kevin Bacon and kyra Sedgwick's wedding 37 years ago on Labor Day weekend. And I still remember how pissed off people were coming in from the West Coast. They were like, you gotta be kidding. It's Labor Day weekend. So I think it really depends on, you know, how close your friends are and who they are. If it's a tight family and friend unit, people are perfectly happy to spend New Year's Eve even. That's great. They don't have to look for something else to do if you're gonna INV People you work with and your boss and people like that. They are extremely annoyed, I think.

[Chloe Mao]

What do you think, Melissa?

[Melissa Sullivan]

It's such a mix, I think. I don't know. A lot of our clients maybe have friends that have really busy jobs. And it's nice, especially if it's destination, so that people can get the time off. And to your point about New Year's, people are really happy.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, great.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I don't have to buy tickets to something.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes.

[Marcie Blum]

I'm always happy to work on New Year's. I was like, me too.

[Chloe Mao]

I think New Year's is a real exception where I always think it's okay to have a wedding or a birthday or an anniversary on New Year's because people are desperate for something to do. I think that I'm really divided on, like, a Fourth of July wedding is asking a lot because a lot of people have family traditions.

[Nicole Phelps]

They're.

[Marcie Blum]

Or they've just rented their house that they paid a fortune for.

[Chloe Mao]

But if you are working, to have that cushion day, if you have to travel is huge. So I don't know.

[Marcie Blum]

And I think, you know, there's nothing wrong with asking your friends before you decide on the date. You know, the people that you really want there.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes.

[Marcie Blum]

Rather than sending it out and hearing that the people you want there can't come or don't want.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean, I do find anecdotally some people will pick a destination for a wedding, thinking people will say no. But then everyone comes.

[Marcie Blum]

Everyone happens every time. Do you agree?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yes.

[Marcie Blum]

I'm like, don't do it, because they're all gonna come and you're gonna be sorry.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I know.

[Chloe Mao]

What's the craziest location you've ever planned a wedding?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Even in California, at some of these private homes, I have to say, they can be so difficult to load into and logistically challenging. It's not. So it's not always, you know, St. Barts or having to deal with flight. Sometimes it's for completely different reasons.

[Marcie Blum]

I would say Montenegro. Montenegro is really tough.

[Chloe Mao]

What was hard about it?

[Marcie Blum]

Getting anything there?

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Marcie Blum]

And I always say, I still have table linens that I bought that are in Romania somewhere. I was like, it's the wedding version of Chopped, where they hand you a box of stuff. Here's what came through customs. A candlestick, three napkins, and one of your programs. Go.

[Melissa Sullivan]

That's insane.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah, it was rough. But anything overseas is definitely tricky, especially with the tariffs now.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

How has that affected things terribly? Of course. Yeah. It's arbitrary. I mean, you get. You ship things to Italy, for example, even from. Well, if you Ship things from England, which is not in the eu, to Italy, you know, hello, education. They're like, we don't know what the taxes are going to be. And they'll look at it and go, ah, $8 million. Right. And so you don't know what to tell the client.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Everything has just gotten really expensive, even flights for us right now. I don't know if you're having this experience, but our staff travel budget has changed so dramatically for a wedding we're doing in France. And it takes away from a lot of the creative, fun things that you can do.

[Marcie Blum]

Right. There's only one pot of money. It's not like, here's for travel, I

[Melissa Sullivan]

know, here's for your staff, I spend more. It's not always like that. And we're shipping in welcome bags for a wedding that's actually this weekend. And sorry, you look so well. Thank you. From India and I don't know, we're spending so much more on shipping than I thought and taxes and it's not fun.

[Marcie Blum]

No, I know. My best friend and her husband haven't been to France in a long time. They live in San Miguel now and Bruce used to live in France. And they wanted to go. So I said, let me give you the miles, you know, so you can go first class, business class, whatever. It was 2 million miles.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh my God.

[Marcie Blum]

I was like, whoa, that was a hell of a present I gave you. So everything it's getting rely on miles.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

I am curious what it's like booking a headliner for a wedding because you had Snoop Dogg perform in Dubrovnik.

[Marcie Blum]

Wow, you are amazing.

[Chloe Mao]

How does that process begin? Are you reaching out to people? Are the bride and groom reaching out to people?

[Marcie Blum]

We wouldn't let them do that. Are you kidding? We'd never get a headliner. Well, I mean, for example, we had a birthday party last night. I mean, we did it for one of my long term clients. Wonderful person. We had James Taylor. And the way the process of getting a headliner, by the way, and I'm sure Melissa knows, is not at all what you would imagine. You have to make an offer. You call up and they'll say, make an offer. You call the agent, they'll say, make an offer and we will get back to you. So it's like pin the tail on the price. If you say, you know, 500,000, they'll go, ha, ha ha, don't even consider. I was like, can you give me. Yeah, give me a window, you know, a window. No. And you just keep going back and then. And some people, like James Taylor, is absolutely lovely and delicious to work with and fantastic. And, you know, and there are other times you're like, wow, I don't know. We just spent a zillion dollars, and I'm not sure anybody got it right. So. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

What's the craziest rider you've ever gotten?

[Marcie Blum]

Well, working on one now, and I can't say who it is, but it's.

[Chloe Mao]

Give us a specific of what's in it.

[Marcie Blum]

Well, what's in it, interestingly enough, is nerds. Gummy clusters are very, very specific details on what the entourage or crew can and will eat.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, that's nice.

[Marcie Blum]

It is nice.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I agree.

[Chloe Mao]

Entourage agreed.

[Marcie Blum]

That's nice, considering I never feed my staff. They don't need any more anyways.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Just like shoving a roll in your pocket.

[Marcie Blum]

Exactly.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Whenever you have a moment. My experience has been a little bit different, but it is a dance. It's a weird dance of back and forth. I try to get a baseline from the agent just so that you know what ballpark you're working in. And craziest rider. I mean, sometimes it's the amount of people that they need to bring in, especially if you're working in a different country.

[Marcie Blum]

Travel, et cetera. Private. Yes.

[Melissa Sullivan]

And if you're working in the Bahamas, you have to get work permits for everyone. And as the producer, you have to justify why they need, like, 30 wardrobe assistance.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow.

[Marcie Blum]

And why nobody on the island themselves would be capable of doing that gig, because otherwise, they're not going to let you in.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It's very complicated.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Interesting.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

I love, Marcie, that for LeBron's wedding, the invite didn't have a date or a time.

[Marcie Blum]

Thank you. What? And that wasn't a mistake. We did that on purpose. Although in the beginning, I think I had done one, you know, 39 years ago that probably didn't have a date on. You're like, oops. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

What are some of the wildest measures you've taken to protect clients? Anonymity or, you know, keep secret where or when the wedding is going to be, I think. Have you given a false address?

[Marcie Blum]

No, I haven't done that. I should consider that. I think, you know, basically not giving any information until the person calls this number and you vet who it is.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, so it has to be a voice call.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Marcie Blum]

Exactly. Kind of like wiring money these days. You don't allow anything to be done on the Internet. Right. So it has to be a voice call. And, you know, basically, it's interesting and we all talk about this, my colleagues and I. It's always someone's cousin, you know, just because they're rich and or famous, that doesn't mean the people they were raised with in like Akron, Ohio, have any idea that, you know, not to tell TMZ that they got. So that is what you have to be concerned about, right?

[Chloe Mao]

Where do you think Taylor and Travis are gonna get married?

[Marcie Blum]

Do you have a guess?

[Melissa Sullivan]

I don't know.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, that means you do know. No, I don't know. I think I have had all sorts of ideas about it. Tons of ideas about. I think it's in New York. I really do. And I had this fantasy which I don't think is true, but I. How cool would it be if it was a Gracie Mansion?

[Chloe Mao]

I don't think that's true.

[Marcie Blum]

I know it's not true, but I thought.

[Chloe Mao]

Has a wedding ever been there?

[Marcie Blum]

Years ago, when Ed Koch was mayor, we did some. He was very close with my family and my ex husband and my brother. And so we did. I've done bat mitzvahs there, but never a wedding. But you know, it has a fabulous law. And I thought, what a brilliant PR coup that would be for Mamdani because everyone loves Taylor. I was like, across the board. That would be it.

[Chloe Mao]

The mayor's office is listening.

[Marcie Blum]

That'd be amazing.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know either. I've tried only because for my own satisfaction, I work at Zero Bond, you know, this is where my office is. So apparently, right when I left last week, they came in, I was like, I'm coming back. I don't know what I was gonna do.

[Melissa Sullivan]

But like, are you sure you don't wanna change planners?

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chloe Mao]

Wedding planning becomes very intimate. You basically become a couples therapist before they're getting married. Do you have any tricks about how to navigate marital premarital discontent?

[Marcie Blum]

Well, hopefully it hasn't gotten to discontent yet. It's some las, but not. It's all about respect. I know that sounds trite, but it really is. You know, nobody cares if you say like, I hate pink. But it's different. I hate pink. But you know, you're so stupid. I can't believe you picked pink again. Is a totally different conversation. Right. If you just stay respectful and know that, you know you're gonna be with the other person's family for the rest of your life, hopefully as well. So, you know, don't be nasty to their mother about what she's wearing. So I really think it's again, you know, it's just be kind and I will talk to them separately. I try to go, you know, can I have a call with you? Oh, interesting. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, not. They don't always love it, but I feel, you know, I gave it my best shot. I'm just telling you, as, you know, someone who's been around longer than you, that I really think this is an example of how your partnership is gonna go.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

So let's try to do our best.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Isn't it interesting when you have to get yourself involved?

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

What's an example of when you've had to get involved?

[Melissa Sullivan]

A bride and her future mother in law were really not getting along. And the mother in law was calling us, trying to change certain decisions. And then the bride would call us and say, don't listen to her. And it was getting out of hand at some point. Oh, my God.

[Chloe Mao]

So what did you do?

[Marcie Blum]

Who was paying for it? The mother in law.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I bet the families were splitting.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, even worse.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It was very complicated. And it's true that who is paying does the decision making power. I started off with a bride. I just acknowledged the situation and how complicated and awkward it was, but said ultimately we have to address this with her because this cannot continue and we really have to face it head on.

[Chloe Mao]

And what happened?

[Melissa Sullivan]

We had a very awkward conversation. But all of you. Yes.

[Marcie Blum]

I'm sorry, you're giving me hives. I know.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It was super, super weird.

[Chloe Mao]

And was it better after that?

[Melissa Sullivan]

It was much better. I know every situation is so different in what our jobs require of us, but sometimes they're like, we need you to negotiate this situation for us.

[Marcie Blum]

People ask me about prenups. I'm like, what are you saying? It's a different business. I would have gone to law school if I knew that this was a possibility.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Well, you are a lawyer and a

[Marcie Blum]

therapist, but also you have to. You're an engineer. I mean, the first time someone said to me, well, how many pounds do you think that this tent is gonna hold for a chandelier? I was like, huh? I know. It's like, no, no, no. I plan parties. They're so pretty.

[Chloe Mao]

What is the best way to calm down a bridezilla?

[Marcie Blum]

I have never met someone who was a lovely human who became a bridezilla. I've met people who were difficult, who became deranged during their wedding. You know, but someone who is essentially a really. Everyone's nervous and they're not at their best or their nicest. But if it's a decent person. I try to remind them that there is life after this. But also I say, what do you want? Like, what are you looking for? Because they'll say, well, the client wanted that. I said, the client doesn't know what they want. The client wants to have a great party.

[Chloe Mao]

Right?

[Marcie Blum]

That's what they want. And how we get there, that's our expertise to explain to them that I know you don't. Don't like mushrooms, but other people do and we just won't serve you any. You're not allergic to them. But this obsession with not having a mushroom anywhere is not really. What?

[Chloe Mao]

Not drug mushrooms?

[Marcie Blum]

No. No. Well, that's another story. That's a whole other story. But that is not really what you want. You're focusing. And I use this sentence all the times of just, you know, my mother used to work for me and I miss her terribly. But my mother always has said, you know, the emphasis is on the wrong syllable. And that's how I really like. You're focusing on something, but that's not really what you're thinking about.

[Chloe Mao]

And do people take that feedback?

[Marcie Blum]

It depends. Sometimes they fire me. No, I'm teasing. Or they're just. No, I, you know, I said, listen, I'm just trying to help, you know, and if you don't want to listen, that's fine. This is my job is to give you my expertise. But it's your wedding. At the end of the day, I am not, you know, a dictator. It's your wedding. We will do as you wish. I just. My job is to tell you the possibilities.

[Chloe Mao]

How has social media, I mean, you, I feel like are don't have a pre. Social media reference is changing. But how has social media changed the way that people think about their weddings? And also how has Vogue changed or coverage of weddings changed the way people think about or plan their weddings?

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think people are very aware of how they'll be perceived online. We have clients that want their phones locked. They don't want people posting in general or even to be able to take pictures at the wedding, period. And it's privacy. Maybe a little bit of paranoia wanting people to be present, but just knowing that it will really live on. And I think there's a certain permanence to that versus just the disposable cameras and things.

[Marcie Blum]

And a lot of these people are connected to. I mean, where did the money come from? It's a corporation. It may be a public corporation. They don't want stockholders to see that they spend even if they're right about spending it. They made it, you know, the excess. It looks inappropriate to someone who has $10 worth of.

[Chloe Mao]

Or the inverse. They want.

[Marcie Blum]

Or they want to show that they have plenty. You're right. Or they want to show that they have enough money to do this.

[Melissa Sullivan]

There's a certain echelon of brides. And then I always find it very funny when we're working with a couple and they say, oh, you know, so and so's wedding is coming up. We're going to be watching. And they're watching the stories of all the guests that they know are attending and thinking of it as, oh, this is my competition. It's fascinating.

[Chloe Mao]

Wow. I am riveted by the. I mean, it used to just be. Obviously most people can't afford a wedding planner, but for people who can, you hired a wedding planner and you got a dress with your mom at Kleinfeld's or Bergdorf or whatever, and then you got married. And now there are wedding stylists, there are wedding publicists, there are content creators. I just saw content creators and creative directors. I mean, it's wild. It's almost like billing for a film.

[Marcie Blum]

I couldn't agree more.

[Chloe Mao]

How do you work with all of these different vendors that have popped up and how do you think they affect the overall experience? Marcy's being careful. I can see her thinking, choosing her words.

[Marcie Blum]

You know, the stylists have been doing a really good job and some of them are really talented and found things where I wouldn't have thought of in a million years to put this woman in that. And they look fabulous. And it's, you know, Armani prive or something. I didn't even know where they got it as some atelier. And, you know, and what I object to is two hours outside of the wedding, in the middle of the wedding, when all your guests are there and it's a photo shoot or things. Oh, yeah. And it's not gracious.

[Chloe Mao]

It's.

[Marcie Blum]

Everyone is, you know, where's the couple? Where's the couple? But I mean, obviously I'm old school, so I. And we're very active on Instagram. It's not that, but I'm very specific about what we post and what we had to do with what we posted. Not, look at this beautiful woman. I didn't make that woman. The flowers were nice. We consulted on those. But I think again, it comes down if you are throwing this as your coming out party, which some people are, that's a different perspective.

[Chloe Mao]

Also, weddings now seem to almost inevitably be Two or three days. I mean, there's many events, so it makes more sense that you have someone help you plan outfits for that entire wedding. I mean, I think about the embaning wedding. There were, like, 14 events over four.

[Marcie Blum]

And then there was a boat trip. I think two months before that was a whole. Yeah, I love that one.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It was so funny. They're like, we got off the boat, and the Backstreet Boys were performing. And then we got on the boat and NSYNC was performing.

[Marcie Blum]

I used it because every time my client would say to me, don't you think this is a bit much? I was like, did you see the Ambani wedding? You're gonna be fine.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you feel that people are doing more destination weddings? And are there any destinations that you feel like, are overlooked that are great wedding venues?

[Marcie Blum]

Well, we're not gonna tell you that.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, you have to hire Marcy or Melissa.

[Melissa Sullivan]

There's a little bit of gatekeeping. That's healthy.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah. Only for. Only. Yeah. Not vendors. But I really do think about destinations because, you know, you were asking one of my Bridezilla stories. Many, many years ago, we did a wedding somewhere overseas, and she found out some other people were getting married there the same month, and she went, like, ballistic and wanted me to call all the other wedding planners and make sure they wouldn't be anywhere near the same venues. I was like, well, I can't do that. They wound up making a map. It was like General Patton with little thumbtacks in it. Like, okay, she's gonna be here then. And then.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, it's true. I mean, you definitely. At this point, it's like, oh, they're getting married in Lake Como.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

But it's so sad because Lake Como is so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

[Marcie Blum]

And they don't want us there anymore. I don't know about your experience. They were not very nice to us last time we were there. They've had enough people who saved up enough money. They just want the Clooneys, right? Yeah. You know, the curfews are so early. They don't. They don't want us there. People want to live there because it's beautiful. The same thing with the Hamptons. I mean, they'll put up with us, but it's not easy.

[Chloe Mao]

Melissa, what's the wedding planner stare?

[Melissa Sullivan]

If you're talking to a wedding planner and they have a headset in and they're kind of smiling and they're a little bit delayed, you're like, is something going on? But is something really bad happening. You're like, no, of course not.

[Marcie Blum]

They don't put me on that channel, by the way. My. My staff, they're like. I was like, are you on a separate channel?

[Melissa Sullivan]

The secret channel. That's intense.

[Marcie Blum]

I was like, wait a minute, did something blow up that.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Hey, everyone, we need to go to channel three so Marcus can't hear.

[Marcie Blum]

Exactly. It's amazing to do that. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

What is a wedding trend that you wish would go away? Like food styling or decor?

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think trying to be too traditional with things. I think people can be afraid to branch out and make bold decisions. Maybe not our clients, because I think they're a little zany and creative, but I think being scared to branch out, that's one for us.

[Marcie Blum]

No, I agree with you. And conversely, throwing out the baby with the bathwater, you know, because my clients, I think, are similar to yours. They're creative, interesting people. I mean, people generally hire me for a, you know, church and plaza wedding. Rarely that it would be actually silly because I'm expensive and you're paying for my brain power. Not, you know, that.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Sure.

[Marcie Blum]

But I think if someone says, we're not doing a first dance, or I'm not doing a father, daughter, mother, son, whatever. And I'm the same thing. I'm. Well, you didn't. Why do you have to throw that out? Like, I understand. I am not a traditionalist. You know, I'm an old hippie. I get it. But your father's probably been waiting his whole life.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

To have a dance with you. Is it gonna. It's not gonna kill you?

[Melissa Sullivan]

You know, maybe being a little bit too cool.

[Marcie Blum]

Yes. That's what. I guess that's what I was getting at. So either side. Yes. You're absolutely right.

[Chloe Mao]

Our team is very divided on dogs at weddings. Like wearing the, like a sign that says something like just married or being involved in the wedding. Do you involve dogs?

[Marcie Blum]

My husband is a vet nurse. We are big animal people. Animal rights people. I think the dogs are miserable. I don't really. It's not. You know, again, I'm not the morality police or the taste. I'm like, that poor dog is suffering. He. You know, all he does is see you down the aisle. And like, where are. Where's my parents? Where's my parents? And like, I was running in the, like, who are all these people? I've never seen a dog. You know, it's like a six month old being, you know.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

I was like, they're not a joke.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean, my dog couldn't handle it. But yeah, yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

No, no, no. I mean, my dog would probably eat someone, which is not good for business.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think it's stressful and confusing. If you want to take photos, then you hire a sitter and they can agree, bring them in for a very short amount of time. Maybe they walk down the aisle and then they need to leave.

[Marcie Blum]

Exactly. Yes.

[Melissa Sullivan]

They can't stay for the ceremony.

[Marcie Blum]

No. And to have to like fasten somebody to their collar, they're not happy.

[Melissa Sullivan]

No.

[Chloe Mao]

The run through will be back with Marcy and Melissa after this break. We ask the question all the time.

[Marcie Blum]

Are men okay?

[Chloe Mao]

No. This week on Critics at Large, we're looking at a new slate of shows that take on the so called masculinity crisis. From half man to heated rivalry, there's

[Melissa Sullivan]

a sense of being profoundly misunderstood by the wider world going on in all of these. And I think that stems from the very idea of archetypes that if you don't subscribe to a clear archetype and make yourself very legible to the world at large, you won't actually be seen. But if you do subscribe to one of those archetypes, you're not going to be seen anyway because your individuality is going to be completely scrubbed. I think it's about this feeling of being invisible.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm Vincent Cunningham. Join me and my co hosts for new episodes every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Chloe Mao]

We just got through our super bowl, our Met gala. And the seating.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, I didn't notice. Was there a Met? Was there something at the Met?

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah, the seating chart is of utmost importance. Lot goes into it. Months are spent. Speaking of general patent, it's like, you know, an enormous poster board under a cloak basically where sort of you, you know, Sasha puts her head underneath to look at it. What are your seating rules? I think I'm rare in that I don't need to be seated with my husband.

[Marcie Blum]

I was about to say, well, you heard, you are raised, you know, very European and American. No, it's true. Because in Europe, in Europe, as you know, they'll never sit you next after the first year.

[Chloe Mao]

I just think it's odd. I mean, I see my husband every day.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I say the same thing.

[Chloe Mao]

But should it be someone you know? Should it. Can you see with strangers? I like doing a mix. I just planned my mother's 80th birthday and I had so many emails afterwards saying, thank you so much for seating me with so and so. I loved meeting them.

[Marcie Blum]

I mean, I had. We still talk about. I got married two years ago in St. Flores. I had 14 people. My friends, My friends switched the place cards.

[Chloe Mao]

That to me is a no.

[Marcie Blum]

I was apoplectic. I was like, are you people kidding? Wow. I was like, do you think I just like haphazardly put you? I said there was a point here. You're gonna spend a weekend Together? I thought you'd get to. I couldn't believe it.

[Chloe Mao]

That's one of my big pet peeves. And actually, someone on my mom's birthday moved their place card so that two women were next to each other who have a historic feud. And it was very uncomfortable for the person who was negotiating that between the two of them.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yeah, that's challenging.

[Marcie Blum]

No, because people. I mean, when I were in the dining room before, you know, the guests come in and you see people and I. You know, the party line is the host spent a lot of time doing this. Don't think that this was just the default position that you were seated with, you know, all the cousins. It's like someone thought that you would like that.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Melissa Sullivan]

It's not haphazard.

[Marcie Blum]

Right.

[Melissa Sullivan]

And aside from the intentional connections, maybe you're trying to forge relationships or what have you. There are reasons that, you know, we have this information. Whether it be allergies or maybe meals are assigned. There's lots of different reasons why we need to know where you're seated. So it messes things up for us, too.

[Chloe Mao]

How important are themes for weddings?

[Marcie Blum]

I like a theme. I mean, not necessarily for the wedding night, but I think, you know, the welcome party, if the welcome party's in, you know, we've done everything from Roberta's Pizza to a, you know, fabulous bar downtown for a very fancy wedding. But the night before, so, you know, maybe not, as I always say, we do a medieval theme. You know, we don't want people coming in armor, but we. But just a smidge of a theme. Welcome to New York or something like that, I think is really. I like to have a hook. Something that, you know, we can say there's a reason it's not just pretty. There's a reason everything makes sense.

[Chloe Mao]

Do you. Have you seen more mood boards for dress codes?

[Marcie Blum]

Oh, boy.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm astounded by it. Every wedding now has a Pinterest board

[Marcie Blum]

for the guests, and it's for the guests.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I mean, my mother was invited to a wedding recently at the Bel Air Hotel, and the dress code was formal, and she got a Pinterest board and she wrote back. She replied to the wedding planner. What do they think I am, a moron?

[Marcie Blum]

I was gonna say, do they know who your mother is? Like, the most elegant.

[Chloe Mao]

I mean, I got that email shared via the planner.

[Marcie Blum]

The planner. It was hilarious. No, and also to a certain, there's helpful, and then there's all the way to the right of that, which is rude, you know, and then there are People, I mean, Kate and Kevin, love Kate had a strict rule, you know, either black or white. And the time I was like, wow, that's intense. And the truth is the photos are amazing. They're amazing. They look like from another era. Everybody.

[Chloe Mao]

And did anyone nodded here?

[Marcie Blum]

I think they're scared of her.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay, good.

[Marcie Blum]

Me too. I would not. I would have set them home or given them a dress.

[Nicole Phelps]

You know what?

[Chloe Mao]

I really would like to. And end of end, two, black tie optional.

[Marcie Blum]

Oh my God. I call that the passive aggressive dress code. I mean to say if you want people to wear black tie, it's an attack. It's obnoxious. It was like, well, we really want you to wear this, but we don't have the nerve to say it. So Especially for men, I feel that

[Chloe Mao]

half the men come in black tie and half come in a suit.

[Marcie Blum]

They don't.

[Chloe Mao]

And they both feel terrible.

[Marcie Blum]

Feel stupid and terrible. Absolutely. So I think a specific dress code, I mean we're writing commit to black tie.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Just commit to black tie or just do.

[Marcie Blum]

Or just say dark suits.

[Chloe Mao]

I like when sometimes for Vogue events we just say dress up like you're going to a Vogue event.

[Marcie Blum]

I remember, you know, years ago we did a 50th birthday for some TV personality and we just wrote glamorous.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Marcie Blum]

And you know, it's fun for people. Right.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think when it's open ended, it's good. Formal could be confusing though.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Your mother obviously knows how to dress up, but some people actually don't know the difference.

[Marcie Blum]

What does it mean?

[Melissa Sullivan]

You're right, it's difficult sometimes. We'll have on the website say as some of you have inquired, we've linked to Pinterest board, you know, should it be helpful.

[Chloe Mao]

Right.

[Melissa Sullivan]

And otherwise some people will ask us. A lot of guests will ask because they feel insecure and they don't want to be on the.

[Marcie Blum]

And actually if it's the bride's family or the groom's family, I'll give them my cell phone and I say I know because they don't want to piss off the other part. And I feel so bad for them. I feel like this woman is so scared of her son's new wife. Like, I'll tell you what to wear without. Without you having to ask her.

[Melissa Sullivan]

That's a really good example of things that we do that nobody knows, that nobody knows about this kind of secret hand holding that we do to support behind the scenes.

[Marcie Blum]

Because anybody in this business, all of us, maybe I've met two over the years, we're really kind people who actually like people. Really? You wouldn't.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I think that's an essential.

[Marcie Blum]

Absolutely. You couldn't stay in this if you really didn't like people because they really make it hard.

[Chloe Mao]

What is your favorite wedding cake trend or flower trend right now or wedding dress trend? General trends that you're seeing. Although I hate the word trend.

[Marcie Blum]

But I know we, as I said, we did a birthday party last night for a dear client and we used one of those very long, eight foot long.

[Melissa Sullivan]

The long ones.

[Marcie Blum]

Cake that was decorated and it was. It was really fun when we brought it out, when we finally got it out of the kitchen and into the dining room.

[Chloe Mao]

So I think Subway's footlong cookies.

[Marcie Blum]

Exactly. So I really think it's fun. I mean, I'm obviously, you know, I come out of a food background. I love a really frivolous, crazy dessert buffet with the cake as just, you know, a piece, a punctuation of that. So. And we're doing tons of those, you know, layers stacked in all different colors. And I think people love that. And I think we always like to get people up, you know, nobody wants to sit more than. And almost like you get people up for dessert. Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Marcie Blum]

People have had enough. I don't care if they're sitting next to like the most fascinating person in the world. They want to do it.

[Chloe Mao]

So it's two courses. Appetizer, entree. Up for dessert.

[Marcie Blum]

Up for dessert. Yep.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think that's best. And you can do cake cutting. Doesn't need to be announced. Have everyone dancing.

[Chloe Mao]

When are speeches?

[Marcie Blum]

If it were up to me, never. But that's not the choice, right? Well, yeah. And they're, you know, again, I like

[Chloe Mao]

when speeches are stacked. Opening night.

[Marcie Blum]

I agree.

[Chloe Mao]

I like doing a heavy speech Friday and then the wedding night, it's like just parents or, you know, so you're like three max.

[Marcie Blum]

And some of them should be, you know, if there's a smaller rehearsal dinner, you know, if everyone's gonna make inside jokes where the rest of the guests are like, what are you talking about? You know, it's gotta be at that intimate dinner. Definitely.

[Melissa Sullivan]

We're doing a wedding soon where they have so many friends that need to give speeches that we're actually just completely leaning in. And on Friday night, there's a roast. We're calling it.

[Marcie Blum]

That's what it is.

[Melissa Sullivan]

So we've created a dinner theater experience where everyone is seated and the show is actually all the pages.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah. It's a lot of pressure for the guests, but Good.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think everyone's actually very nervous and they're all Hollywood writers and work in comedy. I'm actually very excited for these speeches.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, that's fantastic.

[Marcie Blum]

That sounds a million years ago. We did J.J. philbin and Mike Scher's wedding and they were both writers on SNL and those speeches. And I wish I could find it. I can't find it. There was a program on the speech. Seth Meyers was the best man. And it was. We were just crying, all of us. It was so hysterical. I think that's a great. I may plagiarize that idea. That's a good one.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I give you permission.

[Marcie Blum]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think you just have to lean in. But to your point, I think stacking them on the first night and keeping it really light for the wedding is good.

[Chloe Mao]

What's your favorite cake or food trend of the moment?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Really over the top dramatic cake displays.

[Marcie Blum]

Tall.

[Chloe Mao]

I was just in LA for the Dior resort show and they had a 900 person afterparty at the Chateau Marmont, which was.

[Marcie Blum]

It was 900. I saw snippets. I didn't realize it looked a lot of people.

[Chloe Mao]

But they had a cake table that looked like it was out of Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette. And they had real non edible ribbons on the cakes, which I felt like if they actually were cutting the cake seemed like a hazard.

[Marcie Blum]

But nobody was cutting the cake.

[Chloe Mao]

No. What is your favorite floral motif you've seen or used recently?

[Marcie Blum]

I'm actually seeing a lot of, you know, topiary fruits and grapes and really renaissance things and, you know, less floral, I think. And I like that a lot. Cause there's only so many things you can do with flowers. Right?

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Melissa Sullivan]

We did a 1960s Palm Springs wedding a couple years ago, which Vogue featured and was one of my favorites I've ever done. Whose Wedding is that? And Sophie Cohen.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay.

[Melissa Sullivan]

And for some of the arrangements, we just had these Gerber daisies. Really simple, classic. We did an overdo it almost.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah.

[Melissa Sullivan]

The wedding food was Italian. There was. It's very niche and nuanced. But all the flowers had different spaghetti names. If you knew.

[Marcie Blum]

That's cute. Yeah, it's very esoteric. Good for you.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Yes.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm curious what people should be spending money on and what they should be saving on for their weddings.

[Melissa Sullivan]

I think the guest experience is something that you. You really should invest in having extra staff. I mean, staff.

[Marcie Blum]

I was just gonna say staff every time. I would throw out all the flowers if I had to. Given a choice and get more waiters, Right?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Definitely. That's what people care about. I mean, at some point, you won't really remember what the flowers. I mean, we care. And the brightness.

[Marcie Blum]

Of course you want it beautiful, but there's beautiful and then there's how much more beautiful. Right.

[Melissa Sullivan]

But if someone's waiting for a drink or the bathrooms are dirty, you know, these are things that we all recognize if we go to an event.

[Marcie Blum]

So definitely.

[Chloe Mao]

I also think it's. You sort of find one thing that you really care about personally. I mean, I'm saying as the bride, like, I ordered really expensive tablecloths. They were. It was Carolina Irving fabric that I loved. And I turned them into curtains.

[Melissa Sullivan]

That's beautiful.

[Marcie Blum]

See that?

[Chloe Mao]

And they're great. And I still use. I have them as curtains. And then I use the extras as tablecloths now. But to me, having children of wear. Yes, exactly. It's a very Sound of Music, but, yeah. So you choose the guest experience. That's a good one. Is there anything people often tend to spend on that then they don't appreciate,

[Marcie Blum]

you know, invitations, I think. And I hate to say that because we do beautiful invitations and they're not inexpensive, but you have to care about it if it's just, you know, something performative or people come in and they say, I guess we have to have an after party. And I'm like, well, if you go to sleep at 10 o' clock every night, why do you have to have an after party? So it really depends, you know, there's. They used to ask me incessantly, brides magazine all the. Can you do a chart that says how much should be spent on each piece? And I was like, no, I can't, because it depends on the client. Right. I only cared about the food and wine at my wedding, you know.

[Chloe Mao]

Well, I wanted to ask you about that, and then we'll be done. But, Marcie, what was it like being your own client? I feel like it's like hairdressers have to cut their own hair.

[Marcie Blum]

Well, the first time I got married, which I was starting my career, it was, you know, we spent way too much on things, but we had. It was great food and great wine. We were in the restaurant business. La Cote Basque lent us their china. We used a lot of favors. This time I was like, I just want four days with my dear friends to have fun. And it was great. I mean, one of. Patricia Vota, you know, did my dress. One of. And it was fabulous short dress. And it was in St. Barth's and basically I just danced on tables and drank for four days, which is really what I wanted to do. Fantastic. Yeah. I think I carried a carnation. I don't even know what it was. I refused, you know. Cause once you start it, you're like, cuz we know everything, right?

[Melissa Sullivan]

So I was like, I'm not doing too much.

[Marcie Blum]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mao]

Are you married, Melissa?

[Melissa Sullivan]

I'm not married.

[Chloe Mao]

Okay. Will you be planning your own wedding?

[Melissa Sullivan]

Good question. Depends on who I marry, I guess.

[Marcie Blum]

I'll give you a business card, just.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Chloe Mao]

Thank you, ladies, so much.

[Melissa Sullivan]

So much for having us.

[Marcie Blum]

Thank you.

[Chloe Mao]

All right, that's it for the show. See you next week. The run through with Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and

[Marcie Blum]

Alex John Burns, with help from Emily Elias.

[Chloe Mao]

The show is engineered by Bran Bandy

[Marcie Blum]

and mixed by Mike Kutchman.

[Nicole Phelps]

Bye.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of how to Fail.

[Chloe Mao]

It's the podcast that celebrates the things

[Melissa Sullivan]

in life that haven't gone right.

[Marcie Blum]

Right.

[Melissa Sullivan]

And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better.

[Chloe Mao]

Each week, my guests share three failures

[Melissa Sullivan]

sparking intimate, thought provoking and funny conversations you'll hear from a diverse range of

[Marcie Blum]

voices sharing what they've learned through their failures.

[Melissa Sullivan]

Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony

[Marcie Blum]

Music Entertainment original podcast.

[Chloe Mao]

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts

[Marcie Blum]

from. Prx.