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- [00:01]
Sponsor
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- [00:22]
Nicole Phelps
This is the Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. Today I'm joined by Veronica Leone, the new creative director of Calvin Klein, who showed her debut collection here in New York last week. Leonie has quite the resume. An Italian based in Rome, she's a veteran of Jill Sander, Phoebe Filo, Celine and the Row. She founded her own label, Queera, three years ago and was an LVMH Prize finalist in 2023. At the time, she described her style to Vogue as a sharp point of view on femininity with an edge. We talked about her interpretation of Calvin Klein, early memories of the brand and what Calvin himself, who was in the audience at her show, thought of her debut. Well, Veronica Leone, thank you so much for joining us on the Run through podcast and congratulations on your Calvin Klein debut. We're recording this two days after the show. It's Sunday morning, very early in the Vogue offices. I wanna know how you're feeling 48 hours after the show.
- [01:19]
Veronica Leone
Yeah, thank you, Nicole. Thank you very much for having me. It's actually very cool morning here in New York. I feel thrilled and excited and very happy for the last two weeks I spent here, I think has been a fantastic climax for this season. And yeah, I'm very excited.
- [01:39]
Nicole Phelps
You got a nice snowstorm too while you were here.
- [01:41]
Veronica Leone
Exactly, exactly. It's the perfect. I was just saying this is actually the perfect, you know, January, February, kind of Fashion week in New York that you don't know if you're really coming back to Europe because of the storm or if you're going to be stuck at the airport with no flights tonight.
- [01:56]
Nicole Phelps
But yeah, yeah, I think you'll be on your way. So what an exciting day it was on Friday at 2:05 West 39th Street. Calvin Klein himself was in the building. And I've been going to Calvin shows for years, slash decades, I'm embarrassed to say. And I've never seen him at a show since he retired. What did Calvin say to you about the collection?
- [02:22]
Veronica Leone
He was very excited. He actually came to me and, you know, he couldn't stop talking about the coats. I think, you know, he had a very good, like, impressive feeling on, on the coat. And he was like saying, you know, I really need a new coat now. I know where I can go and buy it and I Think that, yeah, it was, it was very emotional and very unexpected, I have to say. I, you know, it was like the forbidden dream in a way to have him sitting there and. And that came with a very natural process in a way, and I loved it. And. Yeah, and he was happy also to recognize like a certain familiarity in the pacing of the models. He told me that he doesn't like when the model are too floaty or like slowly walking the Runway. He wants to have confidence. He always wanted to have confidence from them and he was happy to see that confidence in action.
- [03:18]
Nicole Phelps
I was really touched to look around in the, in the minutes leading up to the show and to see people were really emotional to reconnect with him. People on the Vogue team who have worked at Calvin Klein, but then, you know, Christy and Kate, who were obviously his muses, famously in the 90s. It was a really touching, touching moment.
- [03:42]
Veronica Leone
Yeah. And actually we kept it secret until last minute, so I think it was surprising for everybody. And yeah, it was actually fantastic. I think we really made a beautiful and precious moment in our history.
- [03:57]
Nicole Phelps
So your appointment was announced last May and your life changed.
- [04:02]
Veronica Leone
Yeah.
- [04:03]
Nicole Phelps
Tell me a little bit about how your life has changed in the last half year.
- [04:08]
Veronica Leone
I feel that actually at a fantastic season, this has been potentially on a, you know, logistics standpoint and creative standpoint, like a. The ultimate resolution. Because I used to travel quite a lot. I used to be, I always used to be based in Rome after my experience at Celine, when I left London. So I was always on the go, I was always packing. Every Monday was a trip to reach the working place in a way. And Rome has been always like my time off before Calvin. Well, actually now is opposite. I feel that Rome became my full time job in a way and New York is another moment of full time job. So I'm just integrating these two city on a schedule which makes it more minimal and efficient. So I really felt I spent a full time creative flow with my team in the two countries and has been very, very inspiring.
- [05:07]
Nicole Phelps
You were born and raised in Rome and you've mentioned before the influence that the city has on your work. You describe it as an absence of discipline and that it remains deep in your aesthetics. How, how do you, how does that manifest, do you think?
- [05:24]
Veronica Leone
I think it's, you know, Rome is like as a Roman born and raised, you know, you do not realize where you live in a way. And I feel that, you know, it's been funny through the season because, you know, a few collaborators that came to Rome to work with Me, you know, had, like, fantastic experience, like, running in front of the Colosseum with a taxi. And for me was just normal. And for them was like, this is fantastic. And, you know, I feel that there is, like, a certain, like, nonchalance in the city. There is glamour, there's, like, ultimate beauty, but it's, like, normalized to a level of, like, daily common experience to me. And I feel that this is maybe my, you know, the heritage that the city leave has left me, in a way, in the. In the. In the approach to design. So I would say it's the nonchalance of glamour, the nonchalance of beauty that sticks with me as a mantra every time I practice fashion.
- [06:24]
Nicole Phelps
I'd say, how does that nonchalance translate into the clothes that you've designed for this first season of Calvin Klein?
- [06:32]
Veronica Leone
I feel that nonchalance in wardrobe means an effortless and very casual way of expressing and living and embodying, in a way, design. So I feel that, for example, we really spend a lot of time on deconstructing tailoring and make sure that the body could wear tailoring without having the opposite experience of the tailoring, wearing yourself in a way. So a certain emptiness, a certain ease in a way, and a certain. Also pragmatism, I'd say, in the way the clothes were made. And maybe it's the. I don't want to call it simplicity because it would be too simplistic, but there's a certain resolution in the way everything is realized and resolved that makes it effortless.
- [07:29]
Nicole Phelps
I wanna talk about your process. You arrive in, you know, in the middle of last year, and archives tend to be a really big part of the narrative when a new designer comes to a house with as much history as Calvin did. But I was surprised when I saw you the day before the show. You said that, though you went in, you really didn't pick up anything, really, save for one. One ballet flat. Right?
- [07:56]
Veronica Leone
Yeah. And a sweater.
- [07:57]
Nicole Phelps
And a sweater.
- [07:58]
Veronica Leone
And a sweater. Yes. Yes. You know, I. I had the, you know, the deep instinct of not relying on a nostalgic interpretation of the brand. And we know that, you know, we. We already knew that with me and Calvin the brand and Calvin the man, in terms of aesthetic had already a very common ground in terms of, you know, esthetic and my training and, you know, my inspiration and my path through. Through fashion. So I didn't feel the need of, like, you know, reinterpreting is all patterns in a way. So I think it was more about catching a energy. And Calvin is a state of mind. No. So you kind of want to get that energy back on and try to push it forward through a more contemporary vis, a personal vision, I'd say. And it's actually been interesting to leave the opposite process. So I went back to the archive a few. Few days ago, actually for a different. Different purpose. And I did find pieces that were very close to what we did. So it was almost about validating the process that we had independently from the archive and, you know, reconnect the dots. So I feel that, you know, the, the process has been very organic, but I really felt that with this first collection, we closed a circle way of not being nostalgic. We anyhow landed on a ground that was familiar for the brand. So I think that now, you know, I'm starting to think about the next season and I feel that everything is possible. And this makes me feel, you know, that we've done a good job for this first take and possibilities are endless.
- [09:46]
Nicole Phelps
You used the word instinct with me, which I want to get into that a little bit. What does your instinct say about Calvin Klein in 2025? What should Calvin Klein look like now?
- [10:00]
Veronica Leone
I think when I say Calvin is a state of mind is exactly what I feel. I feel that it is not just about a shape of a coat or the wash of a denim. It's more about that very spirited and energetic and relevant position that Calvin has always embodied in cultural system. And, you know, it's almost like the ultimate American dream that you can export worldwide. And I feel that there is space for that. There is space for that narrative. And today we are in a very. We are in a more global kind of approach to fashion. And I feel that as soon as you lose a little bit the geographic connotation, it becomes just the. A common dream in a way, for people worldwide. So I think it's. It's a little bit of that and I think it's when. When we were working at the casting as well, we were really like talking about beauty. Very much so maybe that's the, the, the more contemporary way of leaving Carl Bean, like a deep sense of beauty that is based on freedom of expression, spirited emotion, and cultural relevance along the bye.
- [11:20]
Nicole Phelps
Okay, we're going to take a quick break.
- [11:31]
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- [12:08]
Nicole Phelps
And we're back. As I was thinking about your arrival, it struck me that since Calvin retired, his label has only been interpreted by non Americans. Francisco Costa was Brazilian. Raf Simmons is Belgian. And you are Italian. As an Italian, do you have early memories of Calvin Klein and what did it signify to you?
- [12:35]
Veronica Leone
Yeah, I mean, I think my first memory is definitely the CK1 campaign. I feel I was like just a child, I'd say. And that moment of ecstatic, that like provocative group of people was like the ultimate ambition. And you want to be Kate Moss, you want to be Jenny Shimizu, you want to be those people in a way. So I think that that was my first memory. But then Calvin Klein is embedded in culture everywhere. So I think that. And I don't know, I remember Calvin since I've got memories in a way. And on another standpoint, I feel that the, you know, the, the nationality of design is maybe at the end not that relevant. And I feel that design is very international. And you know, the brand itself, it's, it needs to be international. So I don't think that in a way this matter in the result. No.
- [13:35]
Nicole Phelps
So I have a somewhat embarrassing early Calvin Klein memory and I'm gonna share it with you and then maybe, maybe you could share something specific with me. I am older than you, so I remember Brooke Shields and the Calvin Klein jeans. And I was so crazy for Brooke Shields that I. I wrote her a fan letter and I got a postcard back that, you know, I thought she, she had personally. She had personally written. But I' it was just kind of a stamp, you know, and I would give anything if I could, if I could find that postcard. I mean, this is going back to the, to the mid-80s. So. Yeah. What, what do you remember about being a young person? You're not even a teenager and you're seeing these, these campaigns.
- [14:23]
Veronica Leone
I think it was, it was very on it, very much on the wardrobe. I remember I was wearing those like skinny, sexy jean and I was matching them with my dad's shirt because I wanted to disappear in it. And you know, it was that like crush of like what at the time was possibly street style. No, because that what it was. And yeah, and that was my uniform. Like my dad was like hysterical because every morning I was going and stealing a new shirt. New shirt, new shirt. And then of course CK1, the parfum itself. And I feel that, you know, we had this moment of fictitious in the brainstorming with my team and we really wanted to embrace this like iconic take of Calvin on our generation. And Secret one battle was definitely one of it and we did a clutch with it that is, you know, has been very, very iconic for our season. But this is what you want to celebrate the impact that on us, the brand as in the past. And I think more or less we are, you know, possibly among the older in the team, but we, you know, we belong to that generation and, and we just want to embrace that influence and try to translate that in, in the future.
- [15:43]
Nicole Phelps
So we're talking about these really iconic memories of ours, of Calvin Klein, but obviously we are in the 2000s. Who do you envision as the Calvin Klein client or the Calvin Klein shopper? Now who are you designing for?
- [15:57]
Veronica Leone
Y this has been also like quite of a topic throughout the process with Stefan Eva, the marketing team. I feel Calvin Klein collection has been silent for a few years now. So I would say that we haven't got a customer base, existing customer base at the moment. And actually the operation here is deeper and challenging. We need to seduce them back. And I feel that we are definitely targeting a wide range of people. I think customer today, fashion customer today is extremely intelligent. You know, they know how to navigate fashion. They know what is worth it. They know what quality of design mean. We know, they know, you know, how to approach their own wardrobe in a very eclectic way. So you want to be. I feel like I'd like to be meaningful for them on a multiple level. I think I want to make sure they trust my quality. I want to make sure they can trust my take on design. I want to make sure they feel noticeable but not loud. And so I think it's sophisticated but very and also very intelligent. On the other standpoint, I think Calvin Klein it's based on desire. This, you know, obsession work came back multiple time in the conversation every time. And I feel you want to be obsessed with the brand. So I think that there's definitely practical level that rely on the product. But then on the other point, there's an aspirational and more emotional connection that I feel it would be important for us to establish with our customer.
- [17:42]
Nicole Phelps
Well, I have to say that I am already obsessed with the very skinny silhouette of the pants and the trim little sweater over the button down. And I especially liked it and appreciated it because you having come from the row and Celine are really, you know, at least partly responsible for this really generous silhouette. The slouchy full legged pants that all the fashion Girls are wearing now and have been wearing for many years. So it really felt like a pivot. And I wanted to talk more about the fashion message of the collection you showed. What do you feel like the fashion message is?
- [18:23]
Veronica Leone
You know, I think silhouette. It's has been like quite of a conversation. I feel, you know, the most successful shows I've seen in my life are always like avant garde on the silhouette. That doesn't mean to, you know, for sleep coats, but it means like proportion. It means like renew a certain body consciousness in a way. And you're very true. I was like, I really felt it actually. Phoebe's time we were, I mean, she was practicing a revolution in womenswear wardrobe. I remember the moment where nobody was wearing trainees, you know, sneaker with like a suit. And she was actually, you know, embracing the uniform and push it throughout. And I feel that that, you know, attend that moment was actually an extraordinary experience. And I feel Ashley and Mary Kate did exactly the same on their with the row. But I would say also Mrs. Sander, in a way has been able to establish a posture in the body. And I think it's about the attitude. So I feel that when I started the collection, I was actually after a recognizable attitude that could be Calvin and not someone else in a way. So I think that as much as I part of the uniform, this slouchy, oversized thing, I hope that I can embrace myself also something that it's a bit more future oriented in my angle. So.
- [20:00]
Nicole Phelps
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Phoebe Filo and Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen and Jill Sander, all of whom you've worked for. Do you see those women as mentors? And if not, who have been your mentors in your career?
- [20:16]
Veronica Leone
They've been legal. The most extraordinary example of female leadership and creativity. I've been so lucky. You know, when I look back, I'm like in awe to these women. And, you know, they've been extraordinary example with very different take all of them. I feel, you know, Mrs. Sanda was like devoted to products. She was like devoted to her customers. And I remember doing these endless fittings also on white T shirts. You know, she was trying T shirts herself. And that was like the example of the ultimate care that she had towards her customer base. And that was awesome. And you know, Phoebe, she's mastermind of style. She's like, you know, the ultimate editor of herself. And, you know, she was like always unpredictable. And we were just attending fashion in motion at the time, and that was fantastic. And you know, Mary Kate And Ashley, they are, like the ultimate example of, you know, luxurious beauty. And, you know, they are so devoted to the role in a very, very profound way. And, you know, their professional level is, like, insane. And I was so inspired by them. So they're definitely part of my mentors along the process. And, you know, I will always be thankful for these opportunities.
- [21:42]
Nicole Phelps
Given all of those opportunities, I can only imagine what your closet is like. Tell me a little bit about what, what you have.
- [21:53]
Veronica Leone
I love pants, actually. I'm like, you know, obsessed by trousers. So I think I. I don't know. I can't count, I think. I mean, yeah, I cannot say numbers, but I'd say I've got, like, tones of black pants. Of course. Coats is totally an obsession. I've got also a little archive. I feel, you know, I feel the pieces that I'm most attached to is actually some beautiful prototypes of the history. And, you know, I feel most of the coat is not buttoned because they didn't achieve the stage of being buttoned up. But, yeah, no, I've got good memories and I. I struggle to get, you know, to let them go. So I feel I'm enlarging and enlargin my wardrobe over year and year. And, yeah, I'm a little worried.
- [22:44]
Nicole Phelps
Someday I have to see it. More with Veronica Leone after the break.
- [22:58]
Sponsor
EBay. It's the place to fall in love with new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion. Over and over again, your favorite designers expertly authenticated. Yeah, eBay. Things people love.
- [23:13]
Nicole Phelps
So I read about your English professor, English literature professor. She introduced you to fashion theory. And I want to hear about what attracted you to fashion as a young person.
- [23:26]
Veronica Leone
I think that I never imagined myself doing another job since I've got memories. This was like a vocation, I'd say I remember myself catching silhouette since when I was like 6. And, you know, I never stopped doing so. And I feel that a little bit due to my grandma. She was always like, putting together a pleated skirt or knitting a jumper or, you know, working on her own wardrobe. In a way, even though she was not a seamstress by profession, she was actually, you know, secretary. So in a way, she kind of used that as a personal hobby. I'd say that kind of fashion in action in the most humble way has always been in my daily life. I spent a lot of time with that when I was a child, and then it just became the dream and the ambition. And on the other side, I feel that my family never made me feel I was crazy. So I Just worked to make that happen. And university was. I was very curious. I was very good at school too. So I felt at the time that I wanted to wrap my study path with a, you know, substantial kind of also more theoretical kind of approach. And you know, this was, was, I think a very good choice. And I met Paola Kolayakkamo, my professor. She was, you know, fashion studies at the time was just at the beginning, especially in Italy. You know, Italy is all on craft, is not on the theory in a way. So it was a fantastic meeting as she was actually teaching English literature through a fashion angle. So we went through Virginia Woolf and the way Virginia Woolf was telling about costume and you know, Orlando was iconic for me and you know, William Morris and you know, Susan Sontak and you know, whatever was kind of like theoretically connected to fashion, just layered in me as a, you know, an extra, an extra moment for design to be relevant in a way. So I think that that kind of like path gave a lot of narrative to my creative process.
- [25:47]
Nicole Phelps
You mentioned your family and you, you launched a label several years ago and you, you named it after your grandmother, is that correct?
- [25:56]
Veronica Leone
Yeah, yeah, my grandmother, she was, she was named Quirina, which is a very Roman name actually. And I want, I mean, our friends used to call it Quira and I love the Q. I think it was a very beautiful letter. And Quira was like a good sum up of my path until the foundation of my brand in a way. And on the other side, I'm also very shy and imagining my names on like thousand label in the center back of the courts, it would have very embarrassed me. So I was like, I need to avoid my personal name and give it to a more symbolic, you know, sound in a way.
- [26:39]
Nicole Phelps
And you put that label on hold to work at Calvin Klein.
- [26:44]
Veronica Leone
Yes, yes. I feel, you know, for some reason we succeeded to create a very healthy brand. It's definitely a startup is really, really young and made of friends, I'd say. And I felt the responsibility towards the two project in a way. And Calvin Klein as well was a startup. Collection was a startup. We started from scratch in a way. So hiring new designer, building up the team again, re establishing a process through factories, restarting working with the atelier in New York. So I really felt that he needed my. So I think that it was for the, you know, good intention towards the two project to focus on one at the time. And maybe there'll be a time for me to, you know, re embrace Otsukira and make it happen again.
- [27:38]
Nicole Phelps
Well, that Will make my colleagues happy.
- [27:40]
Veronica Leone
Thank you.
- [27:41]
Nicole Phelps
So sometime in the future, because a string of male designers, what else is new? Have gotten appointments, and the industry over the last year or so has really talked about the lack of women in leadership roles in the industry. What do you have to say about that situation?
- [28:03]
Veronica Leone
You know, I feel, yeah, there is a real lack of representation, even though the industry is filled of women. And, you know, I've got, like, hundreds of colleagues that actually, you know, work in different role. But, you know, my note goes more to, you know, to people like Virginie or Mario Grazia and, you know, the fact that maybe most of the time we do not succeed to give credit to their job. So lack of representation, of course. But then on the other end, I would also say that, you know, they've done an amazing job, and sometimes we just miss the opportunity to celebrate this in a way. And this goes also a little bit to the past. I feel that we always celebrate male designers. We always forget about, you know, Madame or, you know, Schiaparelli herself and, you know, those fantastic women that in a way, shaped the taste and shaped the industry to the status that it is now. So I'm happy to be a woman in charge at Calvin Klein, and I hope that this, you know, together also with Luis and, you know, Sarah, I think it would be maybe, you know, just the beginning for a new period.
- [29:21]
Nicole Phelps
Right. You mentioned Louise Trotter, who has a Bottega Vendetta job, and Sarah Burton. Her debut for Givon is next month. So it is the beginning of a.
- [29:30]
Veronica Leone
Let's hope so we're gonna work for. Yeah, of course.
- [29:33]
Nicole Phelps
Yes. Hear, hear. So you. You told us the collection, the Calvin Klein collection, will go to Paris, where the buyers will hopefully order it.
- [29:42]
Veronica Leone
Of course.
- [29:43]
Nicole Phelps
So how. How do you judge success for this first season? What, like, what will, you know, set you on your way?
- [29:50]
Veronica Leone
You know, I think the. The. I feel successful when I see people wearing my things. So I feel that I'll wait the SAS campaign to wrap to decide if it's been, like, a successful season or not. I really. Yeah, I really enjoy to see people loving Prada, and I feel that this would be the measure of the success for the season.
- [30:14]
Nicole Phelps
So last question. What. What comes next for you?
- [30:17]
Veronica Leone
Spring, summer? Spring, summer. No, I'm gonna take a few days off, but then, as you said, off to Paris. February. So hopefully before Paris, I'm going to be able to sit down with the team and kick off a bit of brainstorming. I think, as I said, this has been just the foundation of, you know, what Calvin collection can be for the future. So, you know, I want to surprise myself every time. So hopefully this will be just in a few days. The beginning will happen just in a few days.
- [30:47]
Nicole Phelps
Well, we will be watching. Veronica Leone, thank you very much.
- [30:50]
Veronica Leone
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [30:58]
Sponsor
The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of global audio. When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like an iconic Dior saddlebag or a stunning diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that never disappoint. Expertly authenticated. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace, brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be besties with your other handbag, or an eternally classic watch like a Rolex oyster or Cartier tank, you know the 1. EBay's experts ensure that you're getting the real deal. That way you can be confident that the designer finds you came for the luxury wardrobe you've always wanted. It's all real. In fact, it's verified authentic. So bring your high standards and never limit what you can truly find. Yeah, ebay. The place for new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion. EBay things people love.
- [32:12]
Veronica Leone
From PRX.