Vivian Wilson on Walking Gucci and The “Ozempic Apocalypse” | PLUS The Devil Wears Dries

Summary

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The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Vivian Wilson on Walking Gucci and The “Ozempic Apocalypse” | PLUS The Devil Wears Dries
Date: March 5, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode takes us inside Paris Fashion Week, with editors and producers narrating behind-the-scenes moments before shifting to a candid, intimate interview with model Vivian Wilson, who recently made waves walking in the Gucci show. The conversation explores the highs and pressures of modeling at the top tier, body image in fashion (with an emphasis on the so-called "Ozempic Apocalypse"), Vivian’s personal journey from language student to fashion star, her thoughts on diversity, drag, internet culture, and balancing fashion’s glitz with global reality.

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Paris Fashion Week – Editor Dispatches

(00:00–07:47)

Highlights from Paris

• Backstage Buzz: Editors share lively perspectives on shows by Saint Laurent, The Row, Courreges, and Balmain.
• Shifts in Balmain: New creative direction at Balmain is dissected—less maximalism, more subtle "minimal opulence" (04:02), with anticipation about client reception after Olivier Rousteing's departure.
  • “There was a lot of workmanship and craft put into the clothes, but in a much… more subtle register than the kind that we were used to from Olivier.” — (D, 04:20)
• Dries Van Noten as a Dream: Enthusiasm around attending Dries Van Noten, described as “my hero, my dream” (E, 05:52).

Vogue Community Moments

• Description of Vogue Café, designed by Anna Wintour, as a gathering point for editors worldwide (E, 06:29).
  • “It was such a treat because I don’t usually meet all of our international colleagues… and this has been a delight.” — (E, 07:18)

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Vivian Wilson Interview: On Walking Gucci, Body Image, and More

(11:08–42:28)

Introduction: A Breakout Moment

• Interview opens with Vogue’s Arden Fanning Andrews welcoming Vivian Wilson, highlighting her show-stopping walk at Gucci, her unique ‘Venus’ hair, and status as a rising voice in the industry.
• Vivian’s recent transition from university student in Tokyo to cover model and runway star is underscored.

Walking for Gucci: Inside the Experience

(12:12–15:48)

• Casting the Show– Vivian describes being cast and her “Venus” inspiration:
  • “For my character inspiration, I was told to act like Venus, the Roman goddess of love. So my walk was supposed to be… lots of hips, slow, sensual.” — (B, 14:31)
• Fangirling at Fashion Week:
  • Dishes on sitting near K-pop idol Lee Know (Stray Kids) and being sandwiched between Kate Moss and Maria Kadla:
     “That was wild when I found that out. But we did it.” — (B, 15:17)
• Memorable Casting:
   “The casting was fucking insane. The budget is infinite, seemingly. Holy shit… when I saw the casting, I was gagging. I was losing my fucking mind. Also, they put me in front of Kate Moss. Oh, my God.” — (B, 14:53)

Life, Style, and First Fashion Influences

(17:20–20:00)

• Books and Reading– Vivian’s current reads and literary tastes surface (gay romance, airport bookstores).
• Early Fashion Memories:
  • “I had a wig that I would wear around the house... and then one day, I never saw it again. And then the wig died. The mystery of the wig.” — (B, 18:59)
  • Credits “Drag Race” as early fashion inspiration, admiring Monique Heart’s creative looks.

Fashion Wishlist and Aspirations

(20:03–21:45)

• Aspirations Over Purchases:
  • “One is I would love to be in Vogue… Number two is I want to go to the Met Gala… and I’d love to walk for Schiaparelli. I love Schiaparelli.” — (B, 20:11)
• Discusses Schiaparelli’s “structural motif…they’re very cunty. And they always just do whatever the fuck they want.” — (B, 21:05)

Current Style and Paris Fashion Plans

(22:14–25:43)

• Describes a bold, mesh-heavy, “overtly whorish” look intended to “make the lesbians gag” for an upcoming Paris show—emphasizing playful provocation and personal expression.
• Vivian is prepping to walk for “Trashy Clothing,” a queer-owned brand (24:59).

Modeling Realities: Chaos and Body Image

(25:43–34:12)

• Casting and Scheduling– The unpredictability of modeling schedules:
   “None of the models know what they’re going to walk, literally until… two days before.” — (B, 25:38)
• Rapid Rise: Reflects on fast career ascent post–Teen Vogue cover and the transformative power of visibility.
• Body Image in Fashion:
  • “Do you feel like everyone is skinnier backstage?”
    “Yes… it’s the Ozempic Apocalypse, girl.” — (E & B, 33:28–33:31)
  • “We need more body diversity in castings because let the girls have body. Not everyone should look like Slenderman, okay?” — (B, 33:35)
  • Denounces weight-loss drugs as dangerous and antithetical to well-being:
     “I am so fucking over this… I would rather lose my career. Because with Ozempic, you can’t stop doing it… it fucks with your mood…” — (B, 34:33)

Personal Details: Language, Spreadsheets, and Social Media

(29:04–31:30)

• Academic Roots: Vivian started as a linguistics major in LA, intended to become an ESL teacher. Loves Duolingo and conlanging (“making up your own fake language”).
• Excel Spreadsheets:
   “This is gonna be the nerdiest fucking thing… There is this thing called ‘clonging’... It’s an abbreviation for conlanging, which is making up your own fake language… I made like a little Excel spreadsheet… organizing my vocabulary.” — (B, 31:55)

On Social Media, Drag, and “Plans, Machinations, and Schemes”

(31:30–41:02)

• Late to Instagram and TikTok, Vivian’s following grew rapidly despite her “really bad upload schedule.”
• Drag Evolution:
  • “We have plans, machinations, and schemes, darling. I always have plans, machinations, and schemes. You never know what I’m going to do next because Neither do I.” — (B, 38:48)
  • Describes first drag performance and love for “maximalist” drag aesthetics.
• Dream Drag Outfits: Fascinated by “crazy, edgy silhouettes that go way off the body,” though acknowledges they aren’t practical for performance.

Real Life, Real World

• Acknowledgement of global turbulence (e.g., Iran, Jerusalem, Dubai) juxtaposed with the surreal bubble of fashion week:
   “It does feel a bit weird to be here doing this while there’s all of that going on.” — (B, 26:28)
• Family Fun Fact: Vivian’s mother is a black belt in Taekwondo (41:02); lighthearted riffing follows.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On walking Gucci:
  “They put me in front of Kate Moss. Oh my God … I was shaking in my boots ... But we did it.” — Vivian Wilson (15:07)
• On body image:
  “It’s the Ozempic Apocalypse, girl… We need more body diversity in castings because let the girls have body. Not everyone should look like Slenderman, okay?” — Vivian Wilson (33:31–33:35)
• On modeling’s unpredictability:
  “None of the models … know what they’re going to walk, literally until … the week of or like, two days before.” — Vivian Wilson (25:38)
• On aspirations:
  “One is, I would love to be in Vogue… Number two is I want to go to the Met Gala… and I’d love to walk for Schiaparelli. I love Schiaparelli. They have this really cool structural motif. They’re very cunty.” — Vivian Wilson (20:11, 21:05)
• On Excel and language:
  “I just like how you can organize everything … There is this thing called ‘clonging’… making up your own fake language. And I did that when I was, like, 17 or 16.” — Vivian Wilson (31:34, 31:55)
• On drag and plans:
  “We have plans, machinations, and schemes, darling. I always have plans, machinations, and schemes. You never know what I’m going to do next because Neither do I.” — Vivian Wilson (38:48)
• On family:
  “Your mom is a black belt in Taekwondo. — What the fuck? How do you know this?” — (41:02)

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Memorable Moments

• Vivian’s open disdain for “Ozempic Apocalypse” and her rally for genuine body diversity.
• Backstage nerves being sandwiched between industry icons and managing to keep composure.
• The “mystery of the wig” and discovering drag as a fashion awakening.
• Holding space for the surreal fashion world against global unrest.
• Playful debate over how to eat a chocolate Eiffel Tower (42:03–42:16).

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Practical Info & Flow

• Adds value for listeners by moving from high-level editor discussions (scene setting, trend analysis) into a personal journey—Vivian’s road from academia to high fashion, moving through identity, activism, and candid, often irreverent humor.
• The episode’s language is candid, affirming, and frequently explicit, matching the voice of a new-gen fashion world prioritizing openness, wit, and authenticity.

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Suggested Listen-by-Topic Timestamps

• Paris Fashion Week Editor Insights: 00:00–07:47
• Vivian Wilson Feature: 11:08–42:28
  • Gucci Story: 12:12–15:48
  • Fashion & Drag Beginnings: 17:20–20:00, 38:48–39:56
  • Body Image / “Ozempic Apocalypse”: 33:28–34:33
  • Excel, Language, and Nerdiness: 29:04–31:55

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Conclusion

This episode seamlessly weaves Vogue’s authoritative editorial gaze with Vivian Wilson’s irreverent, self-aware, and at times deeply serious reflections on fashion’s future. From inside intel on design shifts to probing discussions about body politics and identity, it’s essential listening for anyone following the changing face of fashion, both on the runway and behind the scenes.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Arden Fanning Andrews, Vogue's beauty editor at large. My husband and I talk a lot of ebay strategy together because it is something that we have bonded over since the beginning of our relationship. We've known each other for 20 years, and we've been using ebay for even longer than that, both of us. He's very proud of his five star review, which I have the same. We're pretty popular. We have a really good reputation on ebay.

[B]

Chef Leisure, who likes to be enabled.

[C]

All right, guys, this is Chelsea, a producer on the run through Vogue. I'm currently at the train station waiting for my train, about to meet up with Chloe, Nicole, and I think Chioma as well at the bell show. So stay tuned. Getting on the train. Okay, I'm off the train. Okay. So the Belmont show just ended, and I'm going to find Chloe and Nicole and get their thoughts on the shows from this morning before we get into Belmont.

[B]

Hi, how are you? I'm great. Let's go.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, let's do it.

[E]

So Saint Laurent is always in the most spectacular location because it looks directly onto the Eiffel Tower. And you have Bella Hadid dressed in her boudoir best strutting in front of the glimmering Eiffel Tower. And it feels very special. I thought the collection was so sexy, and I love these sort of deep jewel tones that I feel like he's made his signature, he being Anthony Vaccarello, designer at Saint Laurent. And then this morning, the Row, always in its most beautiful location. Hotel Particuier in the first. And the clothes were chic as always, but I loved when they got a little weirder than usual. You saw some seams exposed, sort of deliberately not yet done draping.

[B]

Yes. Let's go.

[E]

And I love the bright colors. I like that it sort of felt almost like old Margiela, where it felt like you saw things in the process of construction, and that felt very special. I also love Courreges. Nicola de Felice did 24 hours in the Day of a Woman. And it started from sort of a 70s version of a bed sheet and then went all the way through her day to the night. And I loved it. Included skirts made of Metro tickets and coat checks. And it just was very cheeky, but also had a sense of style and a point of view.

[C]

Okay, so now we are leaving the Balmain show.

[B]

Where are you at?

[C]

We are trying to find Kevin, who is Chloe's driver, and we are hopping in the car. Me, Nicole, Ricky, who is Chloe? Nicole's friend. And Chloe, we're all going to ride all the way across town to the Drees show.

[B]

I'm Ricky Du Solle and I'm the head of fashion at Nordstrom.

[E]

And Ricky is joining us in our car today because her car got a flat tire.

[B]

That's right. Thanks for the ride. Vogue.

[C]

Okay, what did you guys think about Oma?

[D]

Well, we have been big supporters of Antonin's at Vogue for a decade since he launched his own brand at Line

[C]

It

[B]

Beautiful for audio Atline.

[D]

I love. I love how he describes it. He said it's Madame Gray, but make it a T shirt. And he's, oh, my God, Fab. Yes. Very into jersey and draping. And I think he brought a little bit of that to Balman. Olivier Roustey having left Balmain after 14 years, and Antonin has ushered in a new feeling. He called it minimal opulence. And there was a lot of workmanship and craft put into the clothes, but in a much, I would say, more subtle register than the kind that we were used to from Olivier. The question will be, you know, Bauman has a lot of clients for its Ready to Wear. It's very unlike other brands in Paris, which are really based on luxury goods, bags, you know, a real fan base for Balmain clothes.

[B]

Ready to wear.

[D]

Ready to Wear. It's a ready to wear business. So will the Ready to Wear clients who are used to Olivier's flash and drama. How will they like this? Sort of a more subtle, subtle read on Balmain.

[E]

I thought it felt sexy. I felt like there were notes of Saint Laurent. I liked the styling with the stockings, with the petit pois. I love those little stockings. I'm excited to see what he does next. And I'll just say that spring has so sprung in Paris that I have allergies, so excuse my sneeze.

[B]

It's very beautiful, actually. I thought when the show opened and the curtains open, you sort of have that, like, it's a new day feeling.

[E]

Fashion's new day.

[B]

That's right.

[E]

Read the spring issue of Vogue.

[C]

Where are you guys on the way to now?

[D]

We're headed to Dries and Gnomes.

[B]

My.

[E]

My hero, my dream.

[C]

What do you want to see tonight? Or what do you want to see at the show?

[E]

A beautiful pantsuit like the one Virginia Smith is wearing today. She looks so good today. I know.

[A]

She looks amazing.

[B]

I mean, she always looks good. Bye, guys. Enjoy your show.

[C]

Okay, tell us where we are.

[E]

We are at the Vogue Cafe and it's very exciting. It's very beautiful. It's been designed personally by Anna Wintour and her consultant Bastien Alar. There were trips to the Paris flea market to get some of the beautiful chinoiserie screens that we see and some of the bistro chairs and tables, beautiful live poppies and magnolias. Because spring has really sprung in Paris and it's been so fun to see see so many people coming together. I have to say we did this welcome tea with Burberry who are celebrating the anniversary of the trench coat and obviously our very British brand. So a tea felt right with them and we invited all of the heads of editorial content for our owned and operated Vogues and also Vogue licensees. And it was such a treat because I don't usually meet all of our international colleagues. We see them small on a zoom screen. And so I got to meet the editor of Vogue Poland, Vogue Netherlands, Vogue Greece and it was so much fun and this has been a delight. Fantastic cookies with caramel pecans.

[C]

Can you tell me about what you have going on for the rest of the night?

[E]

So I this afternoon went to the Dries Van Noten show which absolutely took my breath away. Prepare to see the Devil and Dries the Devil wears Dries next season. I loved everything. I want to pre order half of it. So that was a real highlight of the day for me because today has been very back to back. It's been like every hour on the hour a different show, the Balmain show to the Drees show. Kevin, our driver said that we truly traversed the the entirety of Paris. And then I couldn't go to Stella McCartney because it was at a stable outside of Paris which explains why we had the fabulous My Little Pony invitations. But I wouldn't have gotten here until the end of this tease. So sadly Ms. Stella. But now we are going to the LVMH cocktail, the LVMH Young Designers Award and then Tom Ford which is always a very exciting moment. And then Alaia at 9pm and we have to build the amazing Alaia invitation which is a leather corset in pieces which kind of looks like a paper doll. So one gasp moment of many at the Gucci show was Vivian Wilson, the young 21 year old model with the most incredible hair I've ever seen walking in the show, among other show stopping members of the model cast. But Vivian, I learned Vivian was walking because our intrepid head of social, Sam Sussman came out to me and she said I just interviewed Vivian Wilson backstage and she started crying Getting so emotional about walking in the show. This was her first major show. She is was on the COVID of Teen Vogue last year. She is the daughter of Elon Musk, but she asked us not to ask her about her father, which, fair enough, we are all our own people. And I was so impressed by her. She came to my hotel room, we sat down on the couch. We had such a fun chat. In addition to being an incredible linguist, she was studying Japanese in Tokyo at university there, she wanted to be an ESL teacher until her modeling career took off. But she also felt so passionately and spoke so passionately about Ozempic and the modeling industry and weight loss, drugs, and body positivity. And she just is a powerful voice and I'm really excited to see what she does next. The run through will be back in a moment.

[A]

Whenever I'm looking for things with ebay authenticity guarantee, it often ends up being sneakers. I'm not necessarily sneakerhood, but there are specific sneakers that I may have, like, fallen in love with and have been discontinued. And it's really nice to find them on ebay. And so it'll be just like a pair of platform Converse loafers. It will be a pair of vans white slippers with like a very specific low toe. And so it's great with ebay to just be like, this is a real thing. It's in the size that you want, it's in the style that you want, and it's real.

[E]

So here's Vivian cozy in my hotel room, shoes off. I am so excited to be here in Paris.

[B]

Hello.

[E]

Chatting with Vivian Wilson.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Wow. I'm here. That's crazy.

[E]

We are in my lovely hotel room at the.

[B]

It's very nice. I can confirm that. Not sponsored. I'm not sponsored. I don't know if you're a sponsor.

[E]

I'm not sponsored. But we're very happy.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

And we are so excited to have Vivian on the pod. We've been thinking about you for a while, but I have to say, as soon as you walked Gucci, I was

[B]

like, oh, my God, we have to

[E]

talk to her immediately.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I believe you took a very nice photo.

[E]

I did.

[B]

I really appreciate it. I saw that. I saw that. I was like, that needs to go on my page. It was.

[E]

It was a great addition. I'm really proud to have contributed to that.

[B]

Thank you for that. Oh, did I turn it off? No. Okay. Wait, hold on. Yes. No. Great. Maybe. So are we good? Okay. Uh huh. Yes, of course. Okay. Love that. I'm so good with technology. Don't even.

[E]

Okay, tell me everything about how the Gucci thing came around.

[B]

Okay, well, Lee Ngo was there from Stray Kids, and I didn't find out until afterwards.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

And I'm low key, kind of mad about it, but I think it's good because if I knew that he was attending.

[E]

Are you a Stray kids?

[B]

I have a stay, yeah.

[E]

Oh, is that what they call. They're called.

[B]

Yeah, their fan base is called Stays. All the K pop groups have these, like, really cute fan names, and I'm.

[E]

Well, I know. I just learned that Cat's Eye fans are kittens icons.

[B]

Oh.

[E]

Oh, yes. Doja's kittens.

[B]

Doja's not K pop.

[E]

No, that's true. I know.

[B]

I just don't K pop either.

[E]

To me, I knew they were kittens, so I assumed that because they're cats. They were the kittens, but it's Doja's the kittens and Cat's Eye are the icons.

[B]

Yes. Spelled E, Y, E, K, O, N, S. Yeah. Katzai.

[E]

I was trying to make the connection. Now I get it. Okay, so you are a stay.

[B]

I am a stay.

[E]

And what would you have done if you knew that he was there?

[B]

I probably. Okay. Because you're supposed to look straight ahead on Runway. Right. I probably would have just been like, oh, wait, they can't see this. So for those of you who are only listening to this and not seeing this in person, which is all of you, I'm, like, glancing my eyes around. So that's probably what I would have been doing. Just trying to be, very subtly being like, can I see him? Where is he? But I can proudly say that Lino is now on my Instagram page. He's just sitting happily off to the side, which is a flex of mine.

[E]

So are you gonna chat him up?

[B]

No, he does not know who I am. Okay. I highly doubt it anyway. But, yeah.

[E]

Did you. How did the Gucci conversation start? Did Demna reach out? Did Pierre Palo reach out?

[B]

They reached out to me asking for a video for the casting. So we sent it. It was like. I think we literally came back from a shoot. We were on the. Yeah, we were just. We were at my place, and I was just walking around the driveway for a crazy person. Like, a crazy person doing this, like, 8 million times. Cause was like, I need the perfect take.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[E]

So you had to show the walk.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

And I have a question, because I know that Demna organized the casting into different types and groups. Like, sexy party Girl, what were you.

[B]

I was. Okay. So for my character inspiration, I was told to act like Venus, the Roman goddess of love. Yeah, it's very cute. So my walk was supposed to be, like, lots of hips, slow, sensual, very. That kind of area. Very seductive.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

And there was a fantastic slate of people also walking the show.

[B]

Oh, my God. The casting was fucking insane. Can we talk about that for a moment?

[E]

We can.

[B]

The budget is infinite, seemingly. Holy shit. No. When I saw the casting, I was gagging. I was losing my fucking mind. Also, they put me in front of Kate Moss. Oh, my God.

[E]

It's true.

[B]

I was shaking in my boots when I found that out. And they put me in between. They put me in between K. Moss and Maria Kadla. Wow, that's crazy. That was wild when I found that out. But we did it. Wow.

[E]

I feel like you also have Venus hair. Like, it's giving Botticelli Venus your hair. Was that. Do we think that was part of the inspiration for them?

[B]

I mean, I would like to think so, especially because they posted Venus on their. The Birth of Venus painting on their Instagram page. And I remember they told me to walk like Venus. I was like, is this referring to my look? So, yeah, no. The pressure kept building and building and building, but I'm happy with how it turned out. So who.

[C]

What was.

[E]

Did Kate Moss give you any advice?

[B]

Kate Moss and I did not interact a single time.

[E]

No way.

[B]

Because Kate Moss is Kate Moss, and she can do whatever she wants. So she was not in the lineup with everyone else. She was off to the side because she was way at the back. So I don't think she just wanted to, like, wait, because, like, those lines are, like, really, really long, and you just have to, like, walk around, yada, yada, yada. So I think she was just, like, off to the side, and then she went on stage and whatever. So we never interacted.

[E]

What would you have said to her if you had what or what advice would you have asked her for?

[B]

What advice? How. Yes, please. Thank you. All right.

[E]

Who would you hang out with?

[B]

Me and Maria got love. We're talking a lot in rehearsals. I got to chat a little bit with Alex Khonsani, which was amazing. She's.

[E]

Did you know her already?

[B]

Alex Khonsani? Yeah. We did a Dazed interview together. But beyond that, we had, like, texted once, and then we hadn't really interacted up until this point, so the answer is kind of.

[E]

But now are you guys gonna be buddies? Are you chatting?

[B]

I would. I mean, if she wants to be my friend. I would gladly accept that request. So I'll put that out there into the world. I think she's incredible, and I think she is. She's really funny in person.

[E]

She's so funny. She's basically the most fun. Hey.

[B]

I was surprised because she is exactly the same on camera and in person, there is zero difference.

[E]

True. I heard that you. Before you were coming on stage, you were reading. You said you were reading.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Gay romance.

[B]

I was reading gay romance. I was reading Celestial Monsters by Aiden Schmaynott. Not Aidan Schmaynid. Aidan Spainett is his Instagram username. By Ada Thomas. Shout out to you. He follows me. We're mutuals. Love him. He's active on threads, and that's the social media app I use the most. But no, he's an incredibly talented author, and I am going to keep reading more books from him.

[E]

What is your Paris Read?

[B]

My Paris Read is Celestial Monster. I wrote a few books. Okay. I do fuck up an airport bookstore, so. Yeah.

[E]

Did you buy anything from Milan to Paris in the bookstore?

[B]

No. I did buy something from the Way to LA to Milan, which was the Wayfinder, which I haven't gone to yet. That's if I finish my other reading. I brought, like, four books, but I know I'm never gonna read them. But with the way I read, it's usually like I get halfway through something and then switch to a different one, and I get halfway through that and then switch to another one. Finish that and then finish the first two. Oh, my God. And that's what happening with Celestial Monsters? Because I read the previous one, like, a year ago. Sombrero Trials. Oh, my gosh. I was obsessed. Completely obsessed. Keeps you guessing. Incredible book. Highly, highly recommend. Okay, yeah.

[E]

I want to know what your first fashion memory was like.

[B]

What?

[E]

Do you remember the first time you were like, I love this piece of clothing.

[B]

I love this look. Okay. I love this look.

[E]

Like, as a kid, what did you love to wear? Like, I had a red tartan bathrobe.

[B]

I had a wig.

[E]

Oh, say more.

[B]

I had a wig that I would wear around the house.

[E]

What kind of wig? Describe it.

[B]

It was, like, brown and long. Okay. And then it got. And then I never. And then one day, I never saw it again.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

And then the wig died.

[E]

Interesting.

[B]

The mystery of the wig.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. All right, so I guess you have the wig. But also, I love Drag Race, so one of the first times I was like, oh, my God, this is insane. Was one of the first seasons of Drag Race I watched was season 10, because that was the first full season. Season one was coming out when I got into it. But in season 10, episode one, Monique Heart had this incredible look made from cards and, like, entirely constructed of cards that she made in the workroom that I was like. My jaw dropped when I saw that. I was like, this is one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. Yeah, that was incredible.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[E]

Yeah, so that was. So Drag Race was sort of your fashion awakening.

[B]

I suppose so, yes.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I love that.

[E]

What's on your wish list right now? Fashion buy wise?

[B]

I'm so glad you asked. I keep getting this question and I have this response, like, locked and loaded. I have three things.

[E]

Okay, let's hear.

[B]

One is, I would love to be in Vogue, which this is like, I'm halfway there already. I'm on this podcast, living my life. We're in Paris. Hello. But I would love to be, like, in a Vogue magazine of any country or all the countries. Multiple countries, any country. Take your pick, honey. But. And number two is I want to go to the Met Gala. I am obsessed with the Met Gala. There are so many, like, iconic looks from throughout the ages. Bella Hadid in that, like, red ensemble. Quanta chasing horse in that, like, blue tulle thing. Obviously Anakiai last year. Mm. Honey. Yeah, I ended. I ended. It was over the second she. Like, if I saw. If I was at the Met Gala and I saw an Akiai show up on that, I would have left. I know. No, that was crazy. But, yeah, No, I would love to go to the Met Gala, and I'd love to walk for Schiaparelli. Ooh, I love Schiaparelli.

[E]

I love Schiaparelli too.

[B]

They have this really cool structural motif. They're very cunty.

[E]

They are very cunty.

[B]

And they always just do whatever the fuck they want. I remember that one year with Kendall Jenner just. I think it was Kendall Jenner just having, like, a lion on the lapel. Just a lion. It wasn't a real lion head, obviously.

[E]

That was Kylie, but.

[B]

Yes, that was Kylie, not Kendall. No, I never watched Keeping up with the Kardashians. I'm sorry.

[E]

Kylie wore it to the show.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[E]

And then someone walked wearing it, but I don't think it was Kylie.

[B]

They literally. I get them confused all the time, like, way more than I should, especially as someone in the public eye. Her fans are gonna come for me. I'm so sorry. They all have very similar names.

[E]

Well, I mean, by design, I mean.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, the momager slayed with that low key. It was a moment.

[E]

She knows what she's doing.

[B]

She knew what she was doing when she gave birth to them, honestly.

[E]

So I really appreciate these three wishes, but this was not like a genie question. It was more of, what are you buying? What are your three wish list items? Like on.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[E]

But I love where you took that. And I'm so happy to know what your genie lamp is.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay. Not too much. Not too much. So, okay, like what three, like, clothing items? Yeah. That is hard. Stop. Oh, my God.

[E]

Like, you're in Paris and you're like, okay, this is where I have to go. Like, for example, I am obsessed with. With the new Celine sneakers. And I can't bring myself to buy like designer sneakers because it just feels wrong. Silly. But they're so beautiful. And I like went today and just looked at them and then came back.

[B]

Okay. So that is so difficult because my job is to wear the clothes that other people think I should wear, not buy my own. So.

[E]

Well, what are you excited to wear in Paris?

[B]

What am I excited to.

[E]

Because we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon and you're going to the act show tomorrow as a gal.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Y' all are not ready for this look. I said in the fitting, I was like, or in the place they wear all the clothes wearing. You should pick outfit selection. I don't. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. I was like, the goal is to make the lesbians gag. And I think they will gag. That is the objective. Okay.

[E]

And do we think we're gonna succeed?

[B]

Yes. Okay. Very much so. All right, so hopefully it goes according to plan.

[E]

Okay, do you want to describe the look?

[B]

Okay, so it's this like mesh top. Very. It's like I love that esthetic where it's like kind of overtly horrish, but you're technically wearing a lot of fabric. So it's like this mesh see through top, this really hunty jacket, these leather pants. PETA, don't come for me or do come for me. I don't really care. With these heels and this big brown bag and these. I'm obsessed with the glasses. The glasses, I think are my favorite part of the outfit especially.

[E]

Cause it's so beautiful and sunny in Paris.

[B]

It is. Thank the fucking Lord, because I feel like weather really affects my mood.

[E]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

What are your Paris must dos? What's on the list when you're here?

[B]

I was looking up Beforehand, I don't think I'm gonna have any time because I've been running around the city like a rat in a hamster wheel. Going to castings.

[A]

What have you been doing?

[B]

Well, you know, the model shit. Going to castings.

[E]

Are you walking in any other shows here?

[B]

We are going probably to find out. I mean, at the time of recording this, y' all will probably know. I do not know. Okay.

[E]

What are you hoping for?

[B]

I have plans and machinations and scheming. There is this brand called Trashy Clothing that I am going for a fitting for, like, literally right after this. And this is their first Paris season.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Alongside some of. So I'm really excited to support them. Queer Owned. So obviously, I'm very partial to that. And also some brands. I can't say that. I can't. I can't say the brands. I cannot give them free promo because of all the fucking NDAs I signed, this is the only one I'm allowed to say.

[E]

All right, well, we'll suspend suspense.

[B]

Yeah. Suspense for you and for me. Because I don't know what's about to happen. It's true. Yeah. No one. None of the models, I think, that people don't recognize in most cases, none of the models know what they're going to walk, literally until, like, the week of or like, two days before. Yeah, it's. The scheduling is very intense and chaotic.

[E]

Is this your first time really doing that schedule?

[B]

No, I think last season. What, New York was chaotic. Yeah, last season, New York, that was my first. And I was like, oh, my God. I was literally running around New York to these fittings, to these whatever, just to make sure that everything works. And, yeah, it was intense.

[E]

Were you doing any other sort of fittings and running around in Milan, or is it really just Gucci?

[B]

Milan was just Gucci.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. We had literally no time for anything else. Okay. So, yeah, I know.

[E]

Sort of a weird vibe this season. Like, right after Gucci found out about Iran, and it just.

[B]

Oh, my God. No, it was crazy because I was like, I've been so busy. I have. Like, I didn't check my phone, and then I checked my phone, and then global politics is, like, in flames. We're bombing Iran, which is wild. And then Dubai was hit with bombs. I believe Jerusalem was as well. Everything is in chaos right now. It does feel a bit weird to be here doing this while there's all of that going on.

[E]

Yeah. But I also feel like, as Americans, I'm, like, answering more for exactly the American administration. Like, I Feel like today I was at a meeting there, I was like, what politically are people talking about in France right now? Like, asking about the Paris Mayor's race, and they're like, we don't care about the Paris Mayor. We care about Trump.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. If you are American, if you are an American abroad, the first things people will say will be like, oh, I'm so glad you left because of Trump. Or I'm so glad. Or I like or I hate Trump or whatever. They will usually comment about Donald Trump. Yeah.

[E]

Vivian, I loved your Teen Vogue and cover so much.

[B]

Thank you. Yes.

[E]

How did your life change after that?

[B]

Literally. Well, I'm here, first of all. That would not have happened. No. Completely transformed my career from a language student in Tokyo who was just, like, keeping my head down fairly low. I mean, I had like a threads presence and I was like, on TikTok. But whatever. I felt like for me, I was kind of just like, focusing on my studies and whatnot, too. Becoming a model and traveling the world and doing a bunch of photo shoots and getting campaigns like Fenty and stuff. My career has really taken off and I'm really, really grateful for the entirety of the Teen Vogue team. Specifically, I want to shout out Lex McMenamon and Bersha Sharma. Love, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Yeah. It's just been amazing, honestly. No complaints.

[E]

The run through will be back in a moment.

[A]

Sometimes people ask me which search terms I use. Whenever I'm on ebay, though, I search a lot of dead stock. That's a term that I throw in there a lot. Dead stock means that no one's ever worn it before, but it is like an archival piece or it's a vintage piece. And so that's a great thing to find on ebay. There's a ton of dead stock, vintage. And it's just kind of, like, comforting to know that, like, you're the first person taking this, like, piece on its maiden voyage, even if it's 50 years old. Ebay offers this departure from the everyday that ends up feeling totally you.

[E]

I want to hear more about what you were studying.

[B]

I was studying Japanese.

[E]

Wow. How did that happen?

[B]

I wanted to be an ESL teacher. I've always been obsessed with languages. I taught myself. Oh, I didn't teach myself well. I. I kind of taught myself French. But, like, for example, originally in high school, I was only doing Chinese. And then in my second from.

[E]

From la.

[B]

Oh, in la? Yeah, I went to high school in la. I did Mandarin originally in high school. And then I was like, I had A free, like, spot in my schedule where you're supposed to, like, do homework and stuff, but I don't know, whatever. But I was like, I want to study French. So the summer before sophomore year, I got on Duolingo and spammed the fuck out of it. So I literally took. Learned, like, the entirety of the French one program in, like, two and a half months, and then took a test to get into French, too. And then I became the best in my class at French. And then eventually I got. I was a year above in French because I just liked studying it so much.

[E]

And. So you wanted to be an ESL teacher? ESL for people who don't know is English.

[B]

My original plan was get my degree, get my TEFL certificate, and then start teaching English. But, well, I'm a model now, so obviously plans change, and I am very, very, very okay with this career path, and I want to see how big I can get. We're just locking the fuck in.

[E]

We're locking in.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I was amazed that you didn't use social media until 2018.

[B]

Okay, well, I was, like, watching YouTube and shit, but I wasn't, like, posting to social media. And it wasn't like. I wasn't posting anything on social media until I was 19. It was not. It was like, I only made a TikTok account, like, a year and a half ago. Oh, wait, no, no, no, no. When I was 16, I had a TikTok account. It had 40 followers. I posted, like, four or five videos, and then I deleted it because it was embarrassing. But I was 16. Whatever. But I didn't have, like, an Instagram or anything. And then a year and a half or two years ago or something, I made a TikTok account. And I was like, whatever, I'll start making videos, and I just make videos when I feel like it. Apparently, that worked. I have a lot of people who watch my TikToks. Shout out to the people who watch my TikToks. My upload schedule is really bad, and every time I promise that it's gonna get better, it ends up being a lie. So we'll see. Okay. Yeah.

[E]

I wanna know about you being obsessed with Excel spreadsheets.

[B]

Oh, my God. What the hell? You did your research. Okay, so I don't know. I just like how you can organize everything. I have a lot of filters you can do, and I like playing with the numbers, and you can do a bunch of different formulas.

[E]

So what's the last Excel spreadsheet you made?

[B]

Oh, God. What was the last Excel Spreadsheet. I haven't done one in a while.

[E]

Give us some examples.

[B]

Okay, this is gonna be the nerdiest fucking thing you've ever heard in your entire life. There is this thing called clonging and it sounds nasty. It's not. It's an abbreviation for conlanging, which is making up your own fake language. And I did that when I was like 17 or 16. It was during COVID when everyone was losing their fucking minds. Okay. So I was doing that and I made like a little Excel spreadsheet because I wanted to have a very, like, orderly way of organizing my vocabulary. Because I wanted to have each syllable form, like each possible syllable be the root of a word, and then you would combine them to make other words. Whatever. It was not very advanced. It was like very, very, very basic. But yeah, that was like the main one I did. I spent like a week where I was just completely obsessed with this. And then I completely was like, okay, I did it. Whatever.

[E]

Do you have one for Fashion Week? Like all your go sees, all your.

[B]

I don't actually. I have gotten. I feel like the old. You know, I do have an agency who helps me with that.

[E]

They have their own spreadsheets.

[B]

Yes. Shout out Supreme Love, y'.

[E]

All.

[B]

But no, they're really cool. They make sandwiches. They always have, like, sandwiches around. So you can just have a sandwich.

[E]

That's very important.

[B]

It is very important because a lot of the girls don't eat during Fashion Week and you need to keep your energy up, otherwise you're gonna be miserable.

[E]

I wanna ask you about this. It was not on our questions, but it's something that we talk a lot about at Vogue. Do you feel like everyone is skinnier backstage?

[B]

Yes.

[E]

Like, I just feel like compared to

[B]

five years ago, it's the Ozempic Apocalypse Girl.

[E]

It really is.

[B]

I am so fucking over this. We need more body diversity in castings because let the girls have body. I agree. Let the girls have body. Not everyone should look like Slenderman. Okay. Yeah. And I know I am saying this as someone who is on the thinner side, but like, no, it is like. It's really depressing seeing that. I definitely think we have. We need more like plus size models. And that's why I'm such a fan of people like Emma Arletta or Paris Paloma who are like, doing the damn thing as plus sized women and doing it very confidently and completely just shining. So shout out to them.

[E]

Do you think that the new pill form of GLP1s is gonna make this even Worse.

[B]

There's a pill. What is. What is a GLP one? I do not Jaro.

[E]

Ozempic.

[B]

Oh, okay. Wait, they're making pills now? Yeah. Girl, we do not need to make Ozanpic more convenient.

[E]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Why? Who is this for?

[E]

Have you ever tried it?

[B]

No, I'm never doing that. You could not pay me enough. I would rather lose my career. Because with Ozanpig, you can't stop doing it because you're going to gain the weight back and you're going to become hungry and whatever, and it also fucks with your mood and makes you, like, not able to feel anything. It's horrible. I hate it. Don't do it. I would never endorse that. Don't. No, no, no, no, no, no. Stop. Stop. You gross. I hate it. Oznapic apocalypse is a chop. There we go. Yeah, you heard it first. The oznotic apocalypse.

[E]

I do want to talk about your hair care routine because I feel like you should be doing, like, a Venus haircare ad.

[B]

I would love that. I mean, I didn't say it, but I do agree. Okay. My hair care routine is honestly. Okay. I've said this, like, countless times before. I think it matters. Okay. More. Less what you do to it and more what you don't do to it, which is don't apply excess heat. Don't use hair dryers when necessary. If you do make them cold, I always drip dry. Be very mindful.

[E]

When was the first time you cut your hair?

[B]

I had my ends trimmed, like two months ago, three months ago, I want to say. But then before then, I had not had anything trimmed for, like, seven years.

[E]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[E]

How often do you wash your hair?

[B]

Like, a while. A lot. Really?

[E]

How long does it take?

[B]

A long time. I go through bottles of shampoo and conditioner very fast.

[E]

What's your brand?

[B]

I am switching brands right now, so I. And I don't want to, like, talk shit about some brand. All right.

[E]

You can keep it to yourself.

[B]

Yeah, I'll keep my business to myself, but currently I am looking for brand. One of the hairstylists from the set the other day DMed me a recommendation, but I forgot what the name of it is, so I guess we'll find out together.

[E]

If it works, I want to know about the voice acting classes you took and what you learned.

[B]

Okay. So I haven't taken them yet because there's been scheduling issues on both sides because both me and the professor are busy as fuck, so. But I am really interested in voice acting. Like, even if it's not, like, even if it doesn't work out, I think the process of finding out other character and also not having to record yourself on camera. But I do that enough in modeling. I want to try something completely different because modeling is all visual. I do think it is really fun to have something that's entirely visual and something else that's entirely audio. It's like two completely different worlds. So I think that's the part of it that really interests me is it's just so different from what I do now that I kind of want to try both. I love that. Yeah. And also, I'm trans, so naturally, the trans girl. There are a lot of trans women in the voice acting industry because we can. We have a wide range.

[E]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that makes sense. But you don't necessarily.

[B]

You don't think of that. But it's true. Yeah.

[E]

Like, you could do a full audiobook, all the characters.

[B]

I don't know about that. That seems like a lot of work. No, my publicist was telling me that the other day.

[E]

No, I'm a huge audiobook person, and I love when actors read the books and do different.

[B]

Oh, my God. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have the. Sorry, I didn't read the. Wait, wait, wait. You. But you can do it all you want on my favorite thing. I love John Oliver. That British man brings me joy. Me too. He shouted me out while the other. He just mentioned me, like, in passing and was like, oh, okay, cool, whatever. On one of the episodes. Love that. But he had this episode about CIA torture. Very cheery topic. And he had. It was. He had this celebrity voice act. The files that were declassified about the torture methods they used in this very calm, soothing voice. And it was really funny, but also insanely fucked up at the same time. It certainly made what was going on and what he was discussing more memorable. And I don't think people appreciate that about John Oliver enough. I don't know how we got him. I love John Oliver. I love John Oliver. Yeah, he's kind of unhinged and insane, and he doesn't really give a fuck. Love that energy.

[E]

And his wife was an army medic, which I think is really interesting.

[B]

I did not know that. Oh, my gosh. Good for her.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I also am excited that you want to do more drag.

[B]

Yes. So tell me about that. Well, we have plans, machinations, and schemes, darling. I always have plans, machinations, and schemes. You never know what I'm going to do next because Neither do I.

[E]

You did your first drag show last year.

[B]

I did.

[E]

What did that look like?

[B]

That was really fun. Set the scene. So Patagonia messaged me.

[E]

I love Patagonia.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[E]

You know they're in, like, a lawsuit right now with Patagonia.

[B]

Yes. But I think it was only for, like, one doll. I don't know.

[E]

I'd have to fact check this, but, yes, I thought that was very interesting. We did a piece on Patagonia last Earth Day.

[B]

Patagonia has some really good fashion, as I don't feel like people give drag enough flowers for, like, how actually insane their looks are on such low budgets as well. No, it's actually crazy.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, no, that was really fun. She just messaged me, Joanna, part of the show, and I was like, oh, my God. Yes.

[E]

And what did you wear?

[B]

I wore this, like, black skin tight thing. Margot Marco helps me and, like, Willam helps me style it. Cause she was just, like, there that day. Who's Willam? Drag queen. Oh, okay. Yeah, so that was fun. But it was, like, this black skin tight tattoo with really comfortable.

[E]

What's a dream drag outfit?

[B]

Oh, dream drag outfit. I don't know. I like performing, so something I could move around in, but something I feel like, in terms, there's, like, fashion fashion and there's drag fashion. And I think drag fashion is better when it is more maximalist. I don't think my first dragon performance was that because it was also my first drag performance. So, like, you know how it is. But I maybe something like. I do love the really crazy, edgy silhouettes that go, like, way off the body. In some parts, I'm kind of obsessed with that. But with those, you can't really move around in, so you have to choose one or the other. So. Yeah, yeah. No, for the first one, it was really cool. I had this, like, clear corset that had, like, a little. It went out at the hips a little bit. So it was. It snatched my waist even more. Nocture. Datura helped me with my makeup that day. She was really nice. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah, it was cool. I really liked it. And then I've done more drags and stuff.

[E]

I want to know. Your mom is a black belt in Taekwondo.

[B]

What the fuck? How do you know this?

[E]

Chelsea's a mastermind.

[B]

Everyone is stalking me to jump, scare me on these podcasts. I'm scared of. Stop.

[E]

Do you do martial arts?

[B]

Do I do martial arts? Do I look like I do martial arts?

[C]

You could.

[E]

No, I could see you, like, kill

[B]

Bill Vibes, these fucking arms be absolutely fucking for real right now. No, I do not do martial arts. I used to do jiu jitsu when I was a child. I was really bad at it. Okay. Yeah.

[E]

Any questions you have for me.

[B]

Any questions I have for you is, why is there a chocolate Eiffel Tower?

[E]

Isn't it crazy?

[B]

Where did you fucking get that? What the hell?

[E]

It's. I'm a guest of aloe yoga.

[B]

Okay. And they gave you a chocolate Eiffel Tower?

[E]

How did they even make a chocolate aloe Eiffel Tower? I bet there's a great mold.

[B]

Can I have a piece of the chocolate?

[E]

I was thinking about this. I actually facetimed my kids this morning, and I was like, look at this Eiffel Tower.

[B]

And my son's this morning, and it's untouched.

[E]

I know. And my son was like, are you gonna start from the bottom or the top?

[B]

That's what I was wondering. How would you eat this?

[E]

I think we have to start from the top, but it's. It seems easier to pull.

[B]

Pull it in the middle. I was thinking I was gonna, like, pull a piece off the middle because I wouldn't want to break the structural integrity of it. I agree.

[E]

All right, well, let's close up shop, and then we can have investigate the Eiffel Tower.

[B]

Don't worry. If it doesn't taste like the real Eiffel Tower, I'm going to be disappointed.

[E]

Cookies are good.

[B]

It should taste like metal.

[E]

Oh, that's true. Vivian, thank you so much for joining me.

[B]

Thank you. I'm thanking you back. I'm very polite. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[D]

All right, bye.

[B]

Bye. Bye.

[E]

And tomorrow we'll be back with more coverage from Paris Fashion Week. The run through is produced by chelsea daniel, alex depalma, and alex john burns, with help from emily elias. It's engineered by pran bandy and james yost. It is mixed by mike kutchman.

[A]

My first job in New York City was as a trend forecaster. I do trend forecasting still, and ebay is a part of that because I'll search for things that I'm seeing around, and it will end up directing me in places that I could have never anticipated. And one of the trends that I'm seeing these days is crafting things that are made by hand. And so playing with clothes and accessories to create something kind of distinctive for your wardrobe is a great way of doing it. And getting supplies off of ebay is my favorite thing for it. I'll get, like, maybe a pair of slippers that I'm wearing right now and then cut them in a specific way, and then they're totally my own. And I feel like it's a great resource to create your own trends, because then you can both feel like you're bringing something back to life. You're already, like, pulling it out of the ebay archives, and then you're also adjusting it so that it really expresses your own style, which is something that, you know, people really want right now whenever they are feeling, like, so algorithmic about the style that's being pushed to them. That doesn't have to be perfect. Things can have rough edges, and that sometimes makes them feel more special.

[B]

From PRX.