Vogue Editors Answer Your Summer Dressing Questions with Liana Satenstein

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: Vogue Editors Answer Your Summer Dressing Questions with Liana Satenstein
Date: May 26, 2026
Hosts: Nicole Phelps, Choma Nnadi
Guest: Liana Satenstein

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Episode Overview

This lively episode brings together Vogue’s own Nicole Phelps (Global Fashion News and Features Director), Chloe Malle (U.S. Head of Editorial Content, not present but mentioned), and Chioma Nnadi (British Vogue Head of Editorial Content), joined by contributor and addressed columnist Liana Satenstein. The trio covers the perennial dilemmas of summer dressing, from office dress codes and the politics of feet to inheriting (and offloading) family hand-me-downs, summer shoe trends, wedding dressing etiquette, closet management, and the art of mixing prints and textures in summer style. Listeners’ questions guide the free-flowing, honest, and relatable conversation, offering a combination of practical tips, Vogue anecdotes, and hilarious real-life confessions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Liana’s “Addressed” Column & Her Approach to Wardrobe Advice

[02:18]

• Liana enjoys exploring the provocative, sometimes “saucy” debates in getting dressed, like whether going braless in the office is acceptable.
• She reflects on her own history of not wearing bras at work and the shifting norms around such choices.
• Memorable moment:
  • Liana: “Anyone can see past my chest. It’s very small. But I didn’t think it was a big deal not to wear a bra in the office.” [03:15]
  • Choma: “Let the record show.” [03:13]

Vogue Interview Style Anecdotes

[04:13]

• Liana recounts arriving at Vogue unprepared wardrobe-wise, and receiving a full makeover (white shirtdress, green suede mules) for her interview, having been forewarned that black suiting was a no-go.
• Vogue’s “not a pantsuit unless it has zest” ethos for interview-wear is discussed.
• Quote:
  • Choma: “Just make it fashion.” [04:53]

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Shoe of the Summer & Summer Footwear Realities

[05:44]

• Current summer shoe obsession: Mathieu Blaise’s “deliciously demented demi-sandal” design for Chanel—embraced for its boldness but questioned for practicality.
  • “Those were deliciously demented demi sandals.” – Liana [06:10]
  • “Like a bra for your heel. I said the heel is the crotch of the foot.” – Liana [06:39]
• Birkenstocks maintain their office favorite status, applauded for comfort and city-readiness.
• Toe exposure in the workplace: generally accepted in creative industries, but with awareness of context.

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Gifting, Inheriting, and Managing Hand-Me-Downs

[13:34]

• Guilt, emotional baggage, and strategy around accepting (or not) less-than-chic mom and grandma hand-me-downs.
  • Liana coins the “soft trash can” for pieces one can’t wear but can’t quite throw away.
  • Choma acknowledges the tension: “For me, like, it’s like an albatross around my neck, keeping clothes that I don’t wear.” [14:38]
• Tips for managing the emotional logistics of wardrobe inheritance and making space for the new.

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Closet Organization Tips

[17:29]

• Liana’s advice:
  • Clean out the closet every 2–3 months.
  • Use time constraints (10-minute, or 60-second “find one thing to remove” sprints) for decisiveness.
  • “At the end of the week you have seven pieces that you can part with.” [18:43]
• The struggle for storage is universal in NYC, and variance in “palatial” suburban spaces causes closet envy.

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Shorts and the Office: Yay or Nay?

[19:29]

• General conclusion: shorts mostly remain a no for the office, except for very specific, carefully styled situations (e.g., chic patchwork Bermudas with a heel).
• Comfort vs. professionalism and practicality (subway floors!): shorts are generally difficult to pull off.
• Midriff-baring in the office is also viewed as more generationally acceptable, but, in retrospect, the editors would not dress that way for work again.

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Surviving (and Thriving) in Summer Heat: Style Solutions

[22:27]

• Finding the balance between looking chic and staying cool in both literal and figurative “hot” situations:
  • Choma in London: light jackets, summer cardigans, floaty column dresses.
  • Liana: transitioned from sweaty Wranglers to her “tried and true” below-the-knee JPG skirt; praises loose-fitting pants (Maharishis) for hot days.
  • Nicole: favors loose cargo pants and t-shirts with a jean or track jacket for over-air-conditioned offices.
• Emphasis on layering and prepping for drastic temperature swings caused by A/C.

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Mixing Prints, Texture, and Accessories

[27:05]

• Choma’s rule: go full maximalist if daring (“commit and go”), or channel Chanel’s “take one thing off” for restraint.
  • She currently prefers playing with textures (crochet, sheer, layering neon bras under sheers) rather than bold prints.
  • “I’ve been much more into texture … playing with transparency, the way transparent fabrics work over color.” – Choma [28:27]
  • Offers practical mixing advice: “A stripe … using stripes with a print is easy. When you use something more graphic against something more pretty, it sort of cuts it.” [29:27]

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Summer Shopping: What the Editors Want

[29:43]

• Nicole is inspired by Prada Spring 2008 (The “Fairy” collection): flared checked pants, summer cardigans, chic sandals that hide “ugly feet.”
• Liana is on a Madonna vintage band-merch hunt, embracing niche nostalgia.
• “I’ve found all the clothes I want in life, and now I’m on to … Madonna stuff.” – Liana [30:54]
• Band tees/merch price points: can get pricey, but deals exist, especially for tanks or newer items.

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Wedding Dressing Etiquette

[32:03]

• Still no white for guests, though boundary-pushing is more common. General respect for the bride remains the standard.
  • Liana: “I’m not gonna show my hoo ha. I’m not gonna wear white. … There has to be a level of respect.” [33:05]
• Choma remarks on the growing trend of “naked” dressing at weddings and wonders about new etiquette.

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Signature Wedding Guest Looks & Recycling Special Wardrobe Pieces

[33:31]

• Liana favors a single, versatile high-neck floral dress for attending weddings — longevity and fit over novelty.
• Choma and Liana discuss recycling wedding attire; dying suits, re-wearing jackets with jeans, and the general Vogue tendency to “shop the closet.”
• Nicole wore a white Alexander McQueen tux with a big bustle for a colleague’s wedding.
• Final summer advice:
  • Liana: “Just make sure you get those toes buffed or filed or painted.” [35:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Those were deliciously demented demi sandals.” – Liana [06:10]
• “Like a bra for your heel. I said the heel is the crotch of the foot.” – Liana [06:39]
• “For me, like, it’s like an albatross around my neck, keeping clothes that I don’t wear. I don’t love it.” – Choma [14:38]
• “60 seconds: find one thing that you do not wear, and I’m sure you can do it.” – Liana [18:42]
• “I’m anti short just because I hate my legs. I don’t know why.” – Liana [20:09]
• “No body shaming … what I like is that we see all kinds of body types wearing crop tops. … I think I’m really encouraged by how this younger generation … is embracing [it].” – Choma [21:35]
• “I just want all Madonna stuff.” – Liana [30:54]
• “There has to be a level of respect when you attend a wedding.” – Liana [33:17]
• “Just make sure you get those toes buffed or filed or painted.” – Liana [35:33]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:18] Introduction to Liana’s “addressed” column and “bra in the office” debate
• [05:44] Summer shoe trends: “demi sandal” discussion
• [08:46] Birkenstocks’ vogue office legacy
• [13:34] Navigating hand-me-downs & “soft trash can” philosophy
• [17:29] Closet cleanout tips for city dwellers
• [19:29] Debate on shorts in the workplace and trend history
• [22:27] Surviving summer with style: layering, signature pieces, editor routines
• [27:05] Mixing prints, patterns, textures, and accessories
• [29:43] Editors’ summer shopping faves & inspirations
• [32:03] Wedding dressing rules (then and now)
• [33:34] Wedding guest wardrobe strategies and upcycling tuxes/dresses
• [35:33] Parting summer style thoughts

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Takeaways

• Be bold with shoes, but always weigh function vs. fashion—especially in the city.
• There is no universal right way to dress for summer, but intentionality, confidence, and a sense of cultivated personal style are key.
• Emotional baggage in the closet is real; be strategic and gentle with both inherited pieces and yourself.
• Trends evolve (bras, midriffs, shorts), but office context and self-awareness should guide choices.
• Mixing prints and textures can be playful; either embrace maximalism or edit thoughtfully.
• Sustainable, smart closet maintenance (and guiltless decluttering) helps create space for inspiration, not stress.
• When in doubt: buff your toes, have a “wedding guest dress” ready, and don’t be afraid to let your fashion evolve.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

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[Nicole Phelps]

This is the run through. I'm Nicole Phelps. I am very excited to be joined in the studio today by our very own Chaminadi, here in person from London and Vogue contributor, Liana Sattenstein. Hi.

[Choma]

Well, hi again.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Hi again. Yeah, I saw both of you this week.

[Choma]

I know, which is so nice. Nice to see you, Liana.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I'll take it.

[Nicole Phelps]

A new season is almost upon us. I mean, summer. We thought that we would tackle some of the evergreen warm weather dressing quandaries. Liana writes our addressed column for Vogue. Laia Garcia Furtado, x Vogue Runway editor, launched our style column a year and a half or maybe two years ago. She has since moved on. And Liana, who writes about personal style and knows a lot about keeping other people's closets clean, was our natural choice.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Ah, thank you, Nicole.

[Nicole Phelps]

But tell us, what do you like to write about it addressed?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I like to write about, like, the more saucy sides of what to wear and what not to wear. Like, the first one that we did was bras, I believe in the office and whether or not it was kosher not to wear a bra in the office.

[Choma]

Wow. Well, I, I was a. I mean, I, I'm so. I'm sorry. I'm such a boomer. I'm sounding really boomerish. But what? No bra?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I guess you can not choma. You've. You've like, seen like, you probably know what cup size I am at this point. I never wore a bra at the office. Like, for better, for worse. I mean, actually, probably for worse. Irene Kim goes, that's why you never got a promotion is because you didn't wear a bra at the office. But I just thought because I was

[Choma]

like, for the record, you did get a promotion while you were here. Well, okay, depends. You could shape the record narrative the way you want.

[Elizabeth Day]

I know.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I did get a promotion. I did. From fashion writer to senior fashion writer. Yeah.

[Choma]

I did let the record show.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yes. Okay. Even though I didn't wear a bra, they saw past it. But anyone can see past my chest. It's very small. But I didn't think it was a big deal not to wear a bra in the office. Cause I was like, you know what? Actually, sorry. Not to like digress, but I'm just. I feel like it actually makes sense for this.

[Nicole Phelps]

Be our guest.

[Liana Sattenstein]

When I first came here, I was wearing like these insane, bulbous push up bras from like TJ Maxx. Cause I was like a hangover girl.

[Choma]

Me too. That's something that we have in common. I gave up my padded bras while I was at Vogue.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, but that's.

[Choma]

And I wrote about it. Wait, I think many years before you wrote about it, I was like, did

[Liana Sattenstein]

I copy my own?

[Choma]

Well, I mean, no. It's always relevant, right? I think it's such a. It's a such. It's such a political item of clothing. I think bras are so political. They're just like anything that's the closest to the body is really political.

[Nicole Phelps]

Your chicken cutlet bra. That's what Sarah Moore calls a padded bra. Because those pads are so big and

[Liana Sattenstein]

you can slip them in and out. But I had one. And then I remember Jordan Bickham gave me that makeover when I first came here.

[Choma]

Have you ever told the story about how you were dressed up for your interview?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, yeah. That was rough. But it was great actually. Cause I had nothing to wear, surprisingly. But also unsurprisingly at the time, I was. I had like, I just had nothing. I had zilch to wear. And I was wearing. Remember Sally called me the night before and she's like, sally Singer? Yeah, Sally Singer. She called me and she's like, what are you wearing? And I was like, I'm wearing a black blazer. She's like, absolutely not. And then I felt like an idiot. Cause then I learned after that, Anna, like, everyone knew that, like, black isn't

[Choma]

a great color to wear for a Vogue interview. I think that's kind of universally known.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Choma]

Or that. Or a pantsuit. Like, not the.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I love a pantsuit.

[Choma]

Unless it's like, got some zest. Zest. But not like you're going for, like, a corporate law interview. Just make it fashion.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I know. Well, I didn't. So then Sally was like, we need to give you a makeover. So I came here, and she had Chelsea Zalapani, one of the market editors at the time, dress me from the closet. And it was a white shirt dress.

[Choma]

I remember it exactly.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, yeah. And these green suede mules. And then I had, like, my beat up.

[Choma]

Do you remember the brand?

[Liana Sattenstein]

No, I don't remember any of that.

[Choma]

Lim. I can't remember.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Sounds right for that time. Yeah, yeah. Like 2014.

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[Nicole Phelps]

Well, as our listeners can tell, there are no. Nobody better than the two of you to talk fashion details. So we are.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Segue.

[Choma]

You got the worst of the two of us. We're like, go. Go off on a tangent.

[Nicole Phelps]

We are going to jump into some of the questions that our readers have for our style Colum. Uh, what's your shoe of the summer? We must talk about Mathieu Blaise's very unusual sandals at his Chanel show in Biarritz.

[Choma]

The topic of conversation in every group chat on every comment section in the last 24 hours.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, yeah. Phalangeal fodder for the ages, might I say.

[Choma]

I.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Those were. I. I have to choose my words carefully, but I would like to. Those are deliciously demented demi sandals.

[Choma]

Like, those were insane. Like demi sandals. That's the word. That is. The shoe is a demi sand. I like that. Thank you.

[Nicole Phelps]

Okay. Describe them in detail.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Okay, so it's like you have a sandal, but it's circumcised, so you only have half of it. It's covering the heel. It's not covering the sole. And it wraps around.

[Choma]

It's a heel cup.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yes. Oh, my God. Wait, I wrote that in my sub sack this morning. I said heel cup.

[Choma]

Great minds.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yes. Like a bra for your heel. I said the heel is the crotch of the foot.

[Choma]

Oh, my God.

[Liana Sattenstein]

And it's just. It's like a panty crotch. And it's like holding the heel in a very chic, obviously elevated way. It's in leather, it's in gold. And I thought actually it reminded me, and I can't Say his name. Not in the French way.

[Choma]

Right.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Like Hermes. It's the God Hermes shoes, the Talarias

[Choma]

that used to fly. It is very that when you think about grief mythology. It is that, isn't it?

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah.

[Liana Sattenstein]

And I was like, this makes sense. Like Greek island vacation, whatever.

[Choma]

Like, you know, it's a perfect cruise shoe. I mean, it's. I mean, you can only wear on sand.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yes.

[Nicole Phelps]

Do you think they'll.

[Choma]

They'll ever.

[Liana Sattenstein]

They have to now.

[Choma]

Why?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Because it's like. It's more. It's more like buzzy foot talk. And I think that's what we're into. If they didn't sell it, it's like. It's like edging. It's like edging the customer. Like, you gotta give them the damn shoe.

[Nicole Phelps]

Hard for a New Yorker to wear.

[Choma]

I mean, you can't even wear flip flops. I spent my first summer wearing flip flops, and my feet were actually hideous. I just had to carry wet wipes all everywhere I went. I mean, I don't even want people to know this. This is disgusting. Never again. I mean, I'm so glad I didn't catch a disease.

[Liana Sattenstein]

You're missing your pinky toe and your right foot. No, I'm just kidding. Choma has all her toes.

[Nicole Phelps]

Just about.

[Choma]

I don't even know how I got them. Strong immune system at the time. Youth. Youth will get you through a lot. But, yeah, I mean, what is it appropriate shoe to wear in. In New York?

[Nicole Phelps]

I think Birkenstocks. We see Birkenstocks everywhere. It's a sturdier soul.

[Choma]

Yeah, it's very. I mean, I was interested to hear Leslie Freemer talk about how many Birkenstocks she has. She's like, you know, famed Vogue assistant turned megastar, celebrity stylist, who is the real Emily. So she was talking about how much she loved Birkenstocks, and she kept them under her desk. And actually, we first did a story on how everybody. It was around the time that Phoebe Filo did a very elevated version of Birkenstocks. I can't remember the year. And it was pretty early. It was pretty early. And we just relaunched vogue.com and everybody in the office, we were all wearing Birkenstocks.

[Liana Sattenstein]

So we just.

[Choma]

I did a story about how Vogue that is love. And it went viral, and Page Six covered it because they were like, oh, God, this ugly shoe that Vogue editors wear. And I was just like, we've moved so far beyond that now. But it was crazy to me that that kind of story Would, like, make people feel like, oh, this is so controversial. Like, how could you? But I've definitely had, like, ex boyfriends who looked down at my Birkenstocks and were like, this is not like, I think they're comfortable.

[Nicole Phelps]

They are very comfortable. Let's talk about office shoes. I wear Birkenstocks all summer to work. Do you think they're appropriate? How much toe is too much toe in the summer at the office?

[Liana Sattenstein]

You know, I'm always. I'm a toe. I'm pro toe. Like, I love to show em, I think, you know.

[Choma]

Yeah, you're a mule girl, right? You like, like a kind of a very kitten heel mule?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, I do. But I mean, I also understand that, like, I work in a creative industry where, like, you're allowed to have some Latin use the word again at phalangeal flex. And I know, like, if you work in, say, like something more corporate where the dress codes are more strict, then like, okay, you might just have to. You might have to cover. But like, for me, I like the idea of a flip flop. Obviously, it can be kind of gross, and it's. Especially if you're in the city. So I like a little heel on it, like a little nipple heel.

[Choma]

Like, does that stop the dirt clinging to your.

[Liana Sattenstein]

No, but. No, but it looks like it does. It looks like it does.

[Choma]

You just can't wear it for long.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, you can't.

[Choma]

I'm very strategic about what? I show off my foot. And so I'm very. I'm very, like, self conscious about my feet.

[Liana Sattenstein]

No, you just. You should be. Embrace it. Embrace your foot. That should be like a Dove commercial. Embrace your foot. I mean, I have busted feet. Like, I really do.

[Choma]

I've done. I've seen your feet. Your feet, your feet. You've got quite elegant feet and that, you know.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yes, we should have them. Pan to my feet for this. The free feet video.

[Nicole Phelps]

The run through will be back in just a moment.

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[Nicole Phelps]

Leanna For Mother's Day you wrote about what to do with your mother's not so chic. Hand me downs. Personally, I grew up sort of berating my mother for getting rid of her 1960s and 70s clothes. But I understand that your mom is giving you her old clothes from more recent decades that you're not crazy about.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm not crazy about it. It's just like I have massive like mommy guilt complex and I always felt pressure to take the clothes that she gave me. I think it's kind of also, like, if your grandmother's like, I got you this sweat. And you're. I'm never gonna wear this sweater. And then you see her and she's like, did you wear the sweater? And you're like, especially if she knit the sweater.

[Choma]

I know.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, my God.

[Choma]

You're just like, yes, I spent many years in knitted sweaters. My very lovely great aunt used to knit.

[Liana Sattenstein]

You, like, crochet, though, and, like, knit things?

[Choma]

I do. I do. It's like, yeah, maybe something of it stayed with me.

[Liana Sattenstein]

There you go. See, there's a great takeaway here. Like, even if you don't like the thing at the moment, the influence will.

[Choma]

It's hard when a loved one gives you clothes that you don't want because they take up space. And for me, like, it's like an albatross around my neck, keeping clothes that I don't wear. I don't love it. And I'm constantly cycling through things and figuring out, like, which pile clothes need to go in, like, whether I'm passing it to someone else I love or consigning it or whatever it might be. And it's hard when you give in something where you're like, this is hideous. But it's from someone I love. I may have to, like, wear it at some point. An event that they, you know, family gathering or something, just to show that, like, hey, but I think. I don't know about you, but my family have learned not to give me clothes.

[Nicole Phelps]

Same. Nobody gives me clothes.

[Choma]

I think they stopped at age 10. Like, my mom was like, I am not buying your clothes anymore. You are going to go shop and get your own clothing. And I was very happy with that.

[Nicole Phelps]

Give me books. That's what I say.

[Choma]

Oh, yeah, that's a nice gift.

[Liana Sattenstein]

You know, I think you can tell when someone gives you something, the intent behind it. Like, I think there are pieces that she really cares about, and she's like, I want you to have this because I really love it. And then some of it is something that she's like, I kind of like it, but I don't want to, like, fully part with it. So I'm just going to give it to you because you're like, the next exploding problem. It's horrible. And then I get, like, more stressed out because I have more of her stuff. And then I have this, like, guilt that just builds like a domino effect because I can't part with it because it was my mother. So I basically have been like, okay, I'm sorry. I'm Gonna use this term, but it's like, I have to do, like, a Sophie's choice of, like, clothing these days and be like, this is, like, to stuff with real intent. Like, passionate intent, because I love you. And this is like. Actually, my friend, fellow writer Nikolaya Ripps, coined this because I spoke with her about this a while back. A soft trash can piece.

[Choma]

What is a soft trash can?

[Liana Sattenstein]

It's like, I am the soft trash can.

[Choma]

Yeah, okay.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Like, I'm not quite a trash can, but I'm like, you know, the next best thing. You know what I mean?

[Nicole Phelps]

I'm in the middle. Just throw those things away. Doesn't your mom understand that?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Maybe. I think so. I don't think she'd ever.

[Choma]

She doesn't want to see them anymore. She just doesn't want. If you're someone who likes to hold onto things, like, my dad's a hoarder. We just. Oh, my God, he's not listening. But we just secretly throw things away.

[Nicole Phelps]

I do that with my husband, too. He's not a hoarder, but he doesn't clean up his messes. And so sometimes a mess has been lingering so long in the apartment, I just remove it, and he doesn't notice. As much as I can't imagine Liana coming to my house to deal with my closet, I do need you to come.

[Choma]

Oh, my God.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Guys, we have this on record. Nicole Phelps has said that she needed me. I never thought this would be.

[Nicole Phelps]

Every weekend, I have to spend, you know, an hour or two hours hanging the stuff that I just sort of put on top of the rack because the racks are so squeezed.

[Choma]

Do you not have a storage? I don't either. No. I hate a storage. Because then it's, like, out of sight our mind that it may as well not exist. Why am I keeping it? Oh, yeah.

[Nicole Phelps]

I really am struggling with space. But this is sort of a universal problem in New York because most of us in New York have, you know, not enough storage. So what are some good general rules for trying to keep a closet orderly?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, I think you should go through it, you know, regularly, maybe every two to three months. What I do for myself is I give myself a time limit so I don't block off seven to eight hours a day to clean out my closet. Even though that's probably maybe what it would take. But I do something where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna give myself, you know, let's just say 10 minutes, and then I just go as quickly as possible. Cause I think faster and I do it more quickly and I'm more decisive. And it's like a real honest, like, gut reaction from me. Whereas if you give yourself the whole entire day to clean it out, you take all these breaks, you don't really go through it, and then by the end of the day, you have like two pairs of panties and like an old pair of jeans that you're parting with and you've wasted the whole entire day. So I always say, give yourself a really concise time limit. You know, something else is like 60 seconds. 60 seconds. Find one thing that you do not wear, and I'm sure you can do it. Do that once a day for seven days. And at the end of the week you have seven pieces that you can part with.

[Choma]

That's a nice rule.

[Liana Sattenstein]

And for some math, if you do it twice in one day, at the end of the week you have 14 pieces.

[Nicole Phelps]

And you're doing this to make room for new stuff or just to sort of make your closet feel like a more pleasant place to visit.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah. Not a trash pet.

[Choma]

Every time I go into, like, you know, palatial kind of suburban homes and they have like a walking closet, I'm just like, oh, my God. My. My nervous system is calmed and regulated. I can actually just like pick things out. And there's like, shoes that you can see, like, oh, God. It's just. That's the one downside of like, city living, I think. If you're a fashion person.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, but then you're just in the suburbs.

[Choma]

I know. I. I don't. I wouldn't trade it for the world, girl. I don't wanna.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, no shade to the suburbs,

[Choma]

but I just, I prefer mas. Ego.

[Nicole Phelps]

Let's talk about shorts. We've talked about sandals, but I want to talk about summer shorts. Can you imagine wearing shorts to the office?

[Choma]

No.

[Nicole Phelps]

Should anybody wear shorts to the office?

[Choma]

Maybe I have once.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah. But I know which ones they are.

[Choma]

Okay, go on.

[Liana Sattenstein]

They're like cut off denim, frayed at the ends. And you always wear it with something like, elevated and dressy. I'm not making this.

[Choma]

Right, the patchwork. Right, the patchwork one, I believe. And with a heel. It's just a lot of commitment. They're grazing the knee.

[Nicole Phelps]

Right?

[Choma]

They're grazing the knee. Like, I remember there was a moment in the sort of like early 2000 and tens when the short suit was like a thing, and I was like, what are we doing? Like, who's wearing this? Are you wearing a short suit? Like, what?

[Nicole Phelps]

Hell to the no.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, I'M anti short just because I hate my legs. I don't know why.

[Choma]

No, but it's also just like, there's a. I mean, exposed. I think even if you love your legs and listen, we all should be. We all love our bodies that work so hard. And I don't want to hate my body. And it's not about, like, not wanting to show it. It's just. I just don't want to feel that vulnerable where I'm. I just don't. I think it's hard to pull those proportions off in a professional setting.

[Nicole Phelps]

Also, how can you sit down on the subway in shorts?

[Choma]

Yeah, I know. How can you sit in the movie theater? On a plane?

[Nicole Phelps]

What about midriffs? Because there are a lot of midriffs at Vogue, and you're a pro midriff girl.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I just don't think I knew any better. Like I said, no bra, no shirt.

[Choma]

But I think it's a generational thing, this midriff thing, because I think that is so normalized. Like, I see young women wearing. Showing their midriff very, like, it's not a thing. Whereas maybe in the early aughts, when it was first kind of emerging, it was very much like.

[Nicole Phelps]

Like a Come on.

[Choma]

Yes, exactly. I.

[Liana Sattenstein]

You know, it's weird because I started here when I was pretty young. I want to say, like, 24, but I was showing my midriff a lot, like, all the time. And I think now I would never do that again. I think sometimes it might peek a boo by accident, depending on the shirt, but, like, I would never actually wear it like that ever again.

[Choma]

I mean, what I do like about the current generation is there's no body shaming and there's no sense that you have to have washboard abs. And I think what I like is that we see all kinds of body types wearing crop tops. And that feels like. Personally, when I see it out in the world, I think I'm really encouraged by how this younger generation. Oh, God, I'm gonna sound like a boomerang. No, but, like, just how kind of embracing, like, especially young women are of their bodies and showing their bodies, and I think that's fab. I still think in a professional setting, it doesn't feel appropriate, you know?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Same. Yeah. I mean, even though I did it, but, like, I'm saying, like, now that I, like, understand, like, the actual workings of an office and, like, if I could rewind, I wouldn't bear my midriff in a professional setting again, how do

[Nicole Phelps]

you balance comfort and looking chic in the summer when, you know, you're sort of wrestling with the very hot, humid conditions outside the fridges.

[Choma]

Not in the uk.

[Nicole Phelps]

Rain all day, make us jealous.

[Choma]

I mean, you could be jealous or you could be. You could be sorry. Feel sorry for us.

[Nicole Phelps]

Choma, what do you wear in the summer in London?

[Choma]

My first summer back in London, I didn't. It wasn't even sandal weather. I just kind of wore what I'm wearing now. Like, you wear a light jacket and a T shirt maybe, or a shirt. But yeah, it was very. It was quite liberating at first not to have to think about the high summer office wardrobe because I definitely had lots of solves for that. Like, they had specific dresses I only wore during the hot summers. Like, there's this. There's this vintage Fendi kind of column dress I have that's like very. Doesn't touch my body at all. Super light, and it feels like nothing, but it's full coverage right down to my ankles. And I can wear, like, a chic flat, pair it with. I'm very into, like, a summer cardigan. Like, it's a good layer. Something there. I feel like I can. When. When the AC gets aggressive, I can layer it on. But, yeah, it's different on the hottest days in New York when you have an INV because it's hideous. When it's really hot, it's horrible.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, I. You know, I used to, like, suffer in jeans during the summer. It was horrible because, like I said, I don't like to show my legs. Like, I really just wore, like, these thick, girthy Wrangler jeans from Kmart for, like, summer after summer after summer.

[Choma]

How did you manage that?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I didn't. It was disgusting. It was like ass marination. Sorry. But I have since kind of learned how to, like, elevate my look for the summer, and I have this one tried and true JPG skirt that hits, like, below the knee, which I really like from Chloe Sevigny.

[Choma]

JPG being flex.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, sorry, sorry. Double flex over here. But it was like, this skirt that. It just works well with, like, you know, a nice white top, a nice black top. Like, I can throw in a pair of heels and, like, I can look meeting ready. And on my off days, I had just have, like, these pair of, like, airy Maharishis.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Oh, yeah.

[Choma]

I love. I have a pair of white Maharishis. I love that. They're so good.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah.

[Choma]

On the hot days. Yeah. Well, how do you navigate it?

[Nicole Phelps]

I like that, too. I like, like a sort of a loose fitting cargo Y type pant and a T shirt. And then maybe I'll keep a jean jacket at the office or like an Adidas, you know, shell jacket, track jacket. And we all have blankets at our desks.

[Choma]

I know we do.

[Nicole Phelps]

We're taking a quick break.

[Jesse Sepck]

I'm Jesse Sepck.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

And I'm Shilpa Oskokovic and we're Senior

[Jesse Sepck]

Test Kitchen Editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake

[Choma]

Club podcast Baker the Bake Club is

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Bon Appetit's community of confident, curious bakers.

[Jesse Sepck]

We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive. And we love to talk about all the hows and whys and what didn't works that come with it.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Every month we publish a recipe on bon appetit.com that introduces a baking concept

[Choma]

we think you should know.

[Jesse Sepck]

Then you'll go bake. Send us any questions you have and

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe. And this month we're making strawberry roll cake. It is the unofficial birthday cake of the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen and it is the perfect way to welcome spring. Head to ba.com and come and bake along with us.

[Jesse Sepck]

Send us your questions, pictures and any thoughts to bakeclubon appetit.com or find us on the substack.

[Shilpa Oskokovic]

Join us the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake find.

[Jesse Sepck]

Ba Bake Club Wherever you get your podcasts, Happy baking.

[Odoo Sponsor Announcer]

This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

[Nicole Phelps]

CHOMA A good question for you that someone asked. How do you balance combining prints and accessories in the summer without looking clashy?

[Choma]

I was thinking about this question last night and I was while googling pictures of Peggy Guggenheim because I think like you either have to commit to being a maximalist and just go with it and wear like crazy glasses and tons of jewelry and a bunch of prints and just feel good in it, or you do the Chanel thing and you look in the mirror and you say take one thing off. Increasingly, I have not been in the mood to clash prints so much. I've not been feeling print so much. I've been much more into texture. But, you know, it changes your meaning. What? When you look at, like, the. Maybe I'm influenced by the collections that I'm seeing. Like, I think Mathieu does a lot of great texture. I think we see at Chanel. My bad. Sorry. On first name terms of Mathieu and also Louise Trotter at Bottega, there's just a lot of texture, and in the summer, that's crochet. That could be something that has, like, a sheer element to it. I like layering. I don't necessarily like clashing prints as much as I did before, but I do. I do love layering. I like the idea of playing with transparency, playing with the way transparent fabrics work over color. Like, I'll find really pretty neon bras to wear under something, like, lightly sheer. I just found this really cute Miu Miu tank that has, like, a sheer element to it. I'm very into sort of layering sheer at the moment, so it's more kind of like this subtle color blocking. I think, like, prints can get very. You know, they're very specific to a season. Although I. There are some prints from certain collections that I'll go back to and buy and rebuy. Like, recently, I think at the vintage sale that we did with ebay, I bought Adris. There was a collection that Dries did, maybe it was three years ago before, maybe four years ago. And it was all these layered floral prints. And I'm just always a sucker for, like, a really good floral print. I'm just so basic at the end of the day. I like. Like flowers and. But very specific ones I like. I love. I'm a sucker for a rose print. I love something that looks kind of like. You know, there are certain prints. I'll always hop back to anything that looks like a Vermeer, anything that, like, gives you something very impressionistic. So. And I. I've collected P from that specific collection, but what I used to do was use, like, a camo print against something more feminine. So that would be my rule for mixing prints. A stripe was a good basic, too. You know, using stripes with a print is easy. When you use something more graphic against something more pretty, it sort of cuts it.

[Nicole Phelps]

Liana, have you bought anything for summer that you're very excited to pull out? I haven't bought anything yet, but I want to show you both what I'M fantasizing about.

[Choma]

What's your inspo for summer? What's the look?

[Nicole Phelps]

My inspo for summer is spring 2008. Prada.

[Jesse Sepck]

Ooh.

[Choma]

And that was a good reference.

[Nicole Phelps]

That was the Fairy. The Fairy collection. And that's been on my mind because there were pieces from that collection in the Vogue vintage sale. But it's actually not that. That I want. I want these very, like, flared sort of checked pants and, like, as you said, a summer cardigan.

[Choma]

Yes.

[Nicole Phelps]

Isn't this such a cute outfit?

[Choma]

Super chic. And the sandal is, like, for anyone who has, like, feet phobia about, like, ugly feet phobia. Like, I have. That's a good shoe because it covers enough.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah.

[Choma]

I love the sandals from that collection. I mean, I feel like our colleague Virginia Smith has got a very cool summer wardrobe. Like, she always is really good with summer knits and, like, an amazing pant for the office.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah.

[Nicole Phelps]

She's a sort of a style guru of mine. But have you bought anything for summer 26?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, my God. I've honestly just been, like, on a Madonna merch search. So I've just been buying old Madonna merch.

[Nicole Phelps]

So what have you found her of her upcoming album?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Just. And this was even before the upcoming album. I've just been. I think I've found, like, all the clothes I want in life and now I'm on to. I just want all Madonna stuff. So I got something. I got like a camo print, like, little spicy tank from her Drowned world tour in 2001.

[Choma]

And how. How collectible and how sought after are these items or not? There's no market for them just yet. Or is it kind of difficult because it is like, band tees and they can go for a lot of money.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I've had incredible luck. I think a lot of her band tees, like, yes, like, are going to be expensive. Like the ones with, like, her face from, like, you know, the late 80s, mid-80s expensive, you know.

[Choma]

Yeah. How much are we talking?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, it's like standard, like, 400, 500 upwards. Like you want a T shirt.

[Choma]

Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, not for this T shirt. Yep.

[Choma]

See, not that much, though.

[Liana Sattenstein]

It can be, but it can be a lot. But like, some of, like, the tanks, like, it's inexpensive, like I found. So I have that one and then I have this incredible one. It's during Madonna's Kabbalah era and it says Madonna in Hebrew and it's just so ray of light and it's so, like, shadow.

[Choma]

That was a Good era.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I know. Yeah.

[Choma]

And all this talk of, like, women in their 40s and being kind of, like, hitting peak and that being the era, she kind of led the way for that because that was. She kind of broke the rules of what was appropriate dressing at the time. And I loved the way she's still doing that. She's still doing that. I mean, she looked amazing at Coachella. Like, I mean, I don't think that there was any time in my life where I would feel good going out in a corset. She looked amazing, obviously. We're also entering wedding season, and one thing I've noticed in the way, because we cover weddings so much is you start noticing changes in the way people dress. And there was one wedding that we covered, and everybody was so naked, and I was like, what are the rules to being a guest? Are there any? Because there used to be very finite rules. Like, you don't wear white. You don't try and upstage your bride. You sort of have to, like, it's not about, look at me. It's about celebrating them. Right. What are the rules now to weddings?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I mean, I think they still apply. I mean, maybe now, like, you don't wear white, maybe you can, like, skate by with, like, a pale yellow. I mean, I still think it's the same. I mean, maybe I just haven't been to enough weddings, but, like, I'm like, I'm not gonna show, like, my hoo ha. I'm not gonna, like, wear white. I probably couldn't upstage the bride. I don't have hair and makeup on site like that, so forget it. But I still think there has to be a level of respect when you attend a wedding.

[Choma]

What's your go to outfit for a wedding?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Same thing. I have recycled this dress till the end of time. I have one wedding guess dress, and it is just this beautiful butter pale floral print silk. Not a slip dress. It's like almost. It's like a high neck, kisses the collarbone and like, kind of like a thick strap.

[Nicole Phelps]

Did you wear this to Stef Yaaka's wedding?

[Liana Sattenstein]

I did.

[Choma]

What about your wedding suit that you had? Have you recycled it? Do you wear it again? Or is that something that you can never.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, I don't know if I can fit back into that one. That was once in a lifetime. I do want to figure out how to. To rewear it, but I'm like, would you dye it?

[Choma]

Would you do any of that or would you keep it? Cause it's separates, right? It wasn't beautiful. It Was beautiful.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Skirt suit. Yeah.

[Choma]

Made by your dear friend.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Oh, yes. Svetlana Bevza, Ukrainian designer. I love. She's just such a great designer, but I.

[Choma]

She measured. She also dressed our colleague Jessie Hayman.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Jessie Heyman. For her wedding. Svetlana Bevza, you are the wedding girl. She measured me at the Odeon. I think just standing up. It was bizarre. And then she took the measurements back to.

[Choma]

I knew it.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah, she nailed it. I mean, I don't know how to recycle it. It just looks so dressy.

[Choma]

So I'm like, what about the jacket?

[Liana Sattenstein]

The jacket? You know, I could. You know what? Claudia wrote that piece, right. About recycling her wedding dress.

[Choma]

Yeah. She was. Yeah.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah. I mean, maybe I should do that. Let's just wear it with jeans one day.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, why not?

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah. Okay.

[Choma]

Or you could wear it to a wedding.

[Liana Sattenstein]

I could. If I dye it, I need to dye that thing first. Okay.

[Wise and Blueland Sponsor Announcer]

Thanks.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Wow. Styling tips.

[Choma]

What do you wear, Tim? What do you like to wear?

[Nicole Phelps]

I just shop my closet for weddings. For Steph Yatka's wedding, I wore a great Sarah burton. For Alexander McQueen, white tux with a big bustle in the back.

[Choma]

Oh, my God, I love this.

[Nicole Phelps]

Little black pants with lace on the.

[Choma]

How cool. Sounds heaven.

[Nicole Phelps]

Any parting thoughts, summer dressing? Mm.

[Choma]

I feel like we touched on all the pain points.

[Liana Sattenstein]

Yeah. I'm like, just make sure you get those toes buffed or filed or painted.

[Nicole Phelps]

That's it for the run through. Thank you, Choma and Liana. See you next week. Bye.

[Choma]

Bye. Bye. The run through with Vogue is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and Alex John Burns, with help from Emily Elias. The show is engineered by Pran Bandy and mixed by Mike Kutchman. Bye.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of how to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right and what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each week, my guests are guests share three failures sparking intimate, thought provoking and funny conversations you'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode. Each week, this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts

[Choma]

from prx.