Vogue Editors Break Down The December Issue Edited By Marc Jacobs

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Run-Through with Vogue Episode: Vogue Editors Break Down The December Issue Edited By Marc Jacobs
Release Date: November 14, 2024

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Introduction to the December Issue

In this highly anticipated episode of The Run-Through with Vogue, hosts Chioma Nnadi and Chloe Mao delve deep into American Vogue's groundbreaking December issue, which marks a historic first as it is guest-edited by the iconic designer Marc Jacobs.

Chloe Mao [00:51]: "American Vogue's December issue is out. Kaia Gerber, the model and actress, is on the cover And it is most importantly, the first issue ever in American Vogue's history to be guest edited by none other than Marc Jacobs."

Public and Editorial Reactions

Both hosts express the palpable excitement surrounding this issue. They recount personal anecdotes of increased interest in the print edition, a phenomenon not seen in recent times, highlighting the unique appeal of this collaboration.

Choma Nardi [02:10]: "I really think this issue's gonna be a collector's item. Like I think people are going to collect it."

The episode also touches on a celebratory party held at Bibliotheque in Soho, where Marc Jacobs and Kaia Gerber shared heartfelt readings and reflections on their collaborative process.

Behind the Scenes: Guest Editing with Marc Jacobs

A significant portion of the podcast is dedicated to an in-depth conversation with Marc Jacobs, along with insights from Taylor Antrim and Virginia Smith, the deputy editor and director of the Global Fashion Network at Vogue, respectively.

Initiation of the Collaboration

The collaboration began with a strategic decision by Anna Wintour to infuse fresh perspectives into the December issue, steering clear of the political turbulence surrounding the presidential election.

Anna Wintour [12:04]: "She thought to herself, as she said to me, that why don't we do something really special? That's just like a gift. Nothing to do with politics whatsoever, really. Just like a really creative sort of issue."

Marc Jacobs initially felt overwhelmed by the proposition but embraced the opportunity to curate a creative escape.

Creative Process and Challenges

Jacobs's creative approach contrasted with Vogue's traditional editorial workflow. While Anna Wintour is known for her efficiency and decisiveness, Jacobs prefers a more contemplative and iterative process.

Taylor Antrim [16:08]: "Marc Jacobs likes to think about things. He likes to mull things over. He likes to have more time. He likes to reconsider them, come back to them. It's just how he works."

This difference led to moments of tension, particularly during the release meeting, where both editors had to navigate differing visions for the dance portfolio section of the magazine.

Anna Wintour [17:16]: "There were a lot of things that went his way, but these two pictures that he wanted in the dance portfolio, they did get worked out on camera."

Iconic Features of the December Issue

The issue boasts several standout features, including a 22-page dance portfolio photographed by Alastair McKim and a unique piece on Jacobs's Frank Lloyd Wright house, penned by Jacobs himself.

Anna Wintour [31:35]: "This was truly something that he labored over. And it's such a personal piece of writing about his attachment to this house, the whole journey of buying it and renovating it, which sounds, you know, like quite the adventure."

Another highlight is the whimsical inclusion of Marc's dog, Carl, donned in Chanel, symbolizing Jacobs's playful yet sophisticated aesthetic.

Marc Jacobs [36:54]: "I want to talk about my personal favorite image, which is the last look. The dog wearing Chanel."

London's Vogue Initiatives: Inventing the Runway Exhibit

Choma Nardi shares her bustling week in London, detailing her involvement with Vogue's interactive exhibit, Inventing the Runway. This immersive experience showcases 100 years of fashion through a 360-degree perspective, offering attendees a front-row experience like no other.

Choma Nardi [05:34]: "It was such like, you know when you just get those moments when you're like, oh, like this is why I love fashion. And this is what makes. This is where the magic happens."

Pop Culture and Personal Updates

The hosts also take a moment to discuss current pop culture events, including movie screenings related to Vogue's selections and popular TV shows. They touch upon award season buzz, such as the Grammy nominations, highlighting diverse nominations and celebrating female artists' achievements.

Choma Nardi [08:42]: "I feel very excited that Charli xcx, who is UK Treasure, has been nominated for. Yeah, Hopetown Queen has been nominated for many Grammys."

Final Highlights and Concluding Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Anna Wintour and Marc Jacobs share their mutual admiration and the successful fruition of the December issue. The collaboration is celebrated as a melding of creative minds, resulting in a magazine that balances tradition with innovative flair.

Anna Wintour [38:56]: "It's so fun to see the whole package in print."

Chloe Mao concludes by noting the resurgence of interest in print media, a testament to the issue's compelling content and Marc Jacobs's visionary editorship.

Chloe Mao [38:57]: "It's the first time in a long. Time I've had people ask me for print issues."

Conclusion

This episode offers an exclusive peek into the making of an unprecedented Vogue issue, blending high fashion with personal narratives and creative challenges. For listeners eager to understand the intricacies of magazine editing and the synergy between Vogue's editorial team and Marc Jacobs, this episode provides both depth and engaging insights.

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Notable Quotes:

• Choma Nardi [02:10]: "I really think this issue's gonna be a collector's item. Like I think people are going to collect it."
• Anna Wintour [12:04]: "Just like a really creative sort of issue."
• Taylor Antrim [16:08]: "It's just how he works."
• Anna Wintour [31:35]: "It's such a personal piece of writing about his attachment to this house."
• Marc Jacobs [36:54]: "The dog wearing Chanel."

For a comprehensive understanding of the collaboration and the creative processes behind Vogue's December issue, tuning into this episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

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[Chloe Mao]

This is the run through.

[Choma Nardi]

This is the run through.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm Chloe Mal. Oop.

[Virginia Smith]

Shh.

[Taylor Antrim]

Sorry.

[Chloe Mao]

This is the run through. I'm Chloe Mao.

[Choma Nardi]

And I'm Choma Nardi.

[Chloe Mao]

And Choma. American Vogue's December issue is out. Kaia Gerber, the model and actress, is on the COVID And it is most importantly, the first issue ever in American Vogue's history to be guest edited by none other than Marc Jacobs.

[Choma Nardi]

Ugh, heaven. I saw it pop up on my Insta feed and it was just like joy.

[Chloe Mao]

I feel like people had a really jubilant, excited reaction to this issue. It's the first time anecdotally in a long time that I have had friends asking me for copies of the print issue. That has not happened to me in a while. So I do feel like there is excitement and a frieza of hype around this issue. And on Monday night we had a really fun party at a library, a book bar, if you'll call it that, in soho called Bibliotheque with Kaya and Mark. They each read a different poem. Mark read from Rilke, Taylor and Virginia, who will join us later to tell us more about the issue. But they give a very cute speech talking about how they felt like children of divorced parents sort of negotiating between Mark and Anna throughout. This sounds like a challenging process.

[Choma Nardi]

I really think this issue's gonna be a collector's item. Like I think people are going to collect it. Cause and I just love. For me it was interesting to see Mark's socials. Cause you could tell how much fun he had doing it.

[Chloe Mao]

Yes, totally.

[Choma Nardi]

They're such great friends. They've known each other for so long. And I love that portrait of, of Anna and Mark turned away from the camera, both with the signature Bob.

[Chloe Mao]

It really did feel different. Like there are a lot of unexpected features that I feel like probably wouldn't have either happened or happened in such a big way. Like a 22 page dance portfolio is not something I've ever seen in Vogue before. So that was it. Felt like an exciting opportunity to test new waters Today on the show, as I briefly mentioned, I spoke to Vogue's deputy editor, Taylor Antrim, friend of the POD and Vogue's director of the Global Fashion Network, Virginia Smith. The woman, the myth, the legend. And they worked closely with Mark and Anna on this issue. As I said, they were a bit of the diplomatic core, going back and forth between them. And I'm very excited for you to hear.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, I can't wait to hear this conversation. I love, for me, the bts, especially as someone who's also putting together a magazine, is like the juice. That is the juice.

[Chloe Mao]

For me, the juice is worth the squeeze here.

[Choma Nardi]

Yes, exactly.

[Chloe Mao]

Choma, I feel like you've had a big week. What's happening in London?

[Choma Nardi]

I've had such a busy week. I was out late last night celebrating the brand. Chipova, Loena, who are British Vogue and the bfc, which is our version of the cfda, the British Fashion Council. We have a fun together. And they were this year's winners. And it was great because I had to make a speech, as I sometimes do, but it came very naturally because I remember meeting Emma Chipova and Laura Lewenna, who are the designers behind the brand, and going out to Deptford, which is in southeast London, and going to their space, and I remember when they were just making their signature pleated carabiner skirts on the floor by themselves, and it was just the two of them, and they were making these very heavy necklaces out of carabiners too, that have become such a signature for them as well. So it was kind of this lovely moment, and that was pre pandemic, and they've been in business since 2017, and they've really become such a force here. And I think so many of the younger editors love their brand and wear their brand, and there's such excitement. And of course, I wore a really fun Chipova look and loving it. And it really is different from anything that you'll ever see. And yeah, so it was a really fun night. And then the same day, I was at Lightroom for the press preview of Vogue's interactive exhibit, which is called Inventing the Runway. The elevator pitch is it's 100 years of fashion in 50 minutes. It's a 101. It's Runway 101. It's some of the best fashion shows that have ever taken place in the last 100 years in a immersive room. So it's like a front row seat. Even better than A front row seat. Because I experience shows in the lightroom that feel even more immersive and you see the detail and you sort of see the backstage and you see, you just see it from a 360 perspective.

[Chloe Mao]

You walk into this enormous room and there's different images being projected on four walls and the floor.

[Choma Nardi]

To be honest, if I was, you know, if I think about my 14 year old self and having something like this available to them at that age, it would have blown my little mind because it was such a. Yeah, it was such like, you know when you just get those moments when you're like, oh, like this is why I love fashion. And this is what makes. This is where the magic happens. And that's what this show is really.

[Chloe Mao]

God, you're really selling it.

[Choma Nardi]

I know. I mean, I just think it's quite. It's just nice when we, when we, when we make something that's so different. Right. And I think our colleague Mark Guducci has been working basically, it was something that he kind of spearheaded and has been working on it for a long time. And being in London, we've been there, we've been there with him along the way for the whole thing, pretty much. So it's just so cool to see come to life. As much as I love making a magazine, it's also cool to see how other things are made. The animation side of it, I just had no idea how they make this amazing animation come to life. So it's been very cool. But yes, I was extremely brain dead after two hours of talking about it.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to know what else you've been doing this week. Have you seen any movies? I feel like all of the Oscar, the awards season contenders, all the screenings are starting to happen and all those movies are coming out. So like Vogue had a screening of the Brutalist last week and you and I obviously saw Queer. And there's the Soderbergh film with Cate Blanchett, the Black Bag that we're seeing a screening of tonight. And then tomorrow night I am going to Anna's Wicked screening that she's hosting at Mob.

[Choma Nardi]

That'll be fun.

[Chloe Mao]

Also, there's been a lot of fun TV on that. I've been binging enjoying the Martha documentary on Netflix.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, I started watching that. Oh, I was gripped. It's so good. I need to go back to it.

[Chloe Mao]

She apparently she's been very vocal about how she hated it, but I thought it paints her in such a human, interesting light. I was like, so team Martha by the end, I think for me, it.

[Choma Nardi]

Was a real introduction to Martha because I didn't grow up with Martha Stewart, so I only know the sort of current day Martha who's like a Ian Fab and, like, on the COVID of Sports Illustrated. I didn't understand, like, some of her tablescapes. Literally, I was just like. I was. I was just gagged. I was just like, this is so special. I mean, she was like this crazy, beautiful stockbroker who suddenly, you know, decided that she wanted to be, like, a domestic goddess. And I don't know, I think she's just, like, such an inspiration.

[Chloe Mao]

Is everyone watching Rivals there?

[Choma Nardi]

Yes, everybody is obsessed with Rivals.

[Chloe Mao]

Rivals was so fun. I was delighted. It's like everything I want in Jilly Cooper. All hail. It's like sex news Cotswolds class drama.

[Choma Nardi]

Don't give away too much. I've only watched one episode.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, okay, fine. Well, it's a delight. Wait, so, Choma, break down the Grammy noms for me. What are you excited about? What are you not?

[Choma Nardi]

Well, I feel very excited that Charli xcx, who is uk, you know, UK Treasure, has been nominated for. Yeah, Hopetown Queen has been nominated for many Grammys. And it was a lot of women on the lineup.

[Chloe Mao]

It was a lot of women.

[Choma Nardi]

Finally, they're getting the message, you know, and my girl SZA is on there, I think. And Dochi, who is an artist who I went to see recently in concert, who I'm obsessed with, my partner told me about her, and I was like, well, I never really want to go to a concert if I don't know the music.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, but it was.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, my God. And everybody knew the words, and it was packed, and there was, like, literally sweat dripping from the ceiling. And I don't know, she liked those environments, but it was so. It was so great. Like, I really think she's, like, the next big thing. And of course, we knew. We knew Chapel Rowan would be nominated. What did you think of Beyonce's country album? I was surprised that I. How much I liked it, actually. She's nominated for album of the year, but there are several other nominations that she's got. And this makes Beyonce the most nominated Grammy artist of all time. I mean, of course, she's the go in every way, so that doesn't surprise me.

[Taylor Antrim]

Wow.

[Chloe Mao]

What else? Carolina Herrera has their resort show in Mexico City today.

[Choma Nardi]

Oh, that's a. That'll be a fun one.

[Chloe Mao]

And there's also the Latin Grammys happening this weekend, I believe. So. Carla Martinez has a busy weekend ahead of her. But I think that I'm excited. I love when Herrera does a fun resort show. I remember when they did Brazil. It looked so bright and beautiful and excited to see the photos from that. All right, and the run through will be back in just a moment with a behind the scenes conversation with Taylor Antrim and Virginia Smith and Choma. I can't wait for you to hear who Mark originally wanted on the COVID.

[Choma Nardi]

I think I can guess.

[Chloe Mao]

Ready to add a touch of Vogue to your collection? Browse shop.vogue.com for exclusive merch like limited edition mugs. And here's a treat, get an exclusive 15% discount with code VOGUEPOD15 at checkout. Happy shopping. And we're back. And here is our conversation, all about Mark x Vogue.

[Marc Jacobs]

This is a big week at American Vogue.

[Chloe Mao]

True or false?

[Marc Jacobs]

This is the first guest editor ever of American Vogue.

[Taylor Antrim]

That would be true.

[Marc Jacobs]

Chloe, whose idea was this and why?

[Anna Wintour]

So it is the first guest editor. Although we should say that there's a rich tradition of using guest editors for Vogues in other parts of the world. Right?

[Marc Jacobs]

In other lands.

[Anna Wintour]

In other lands. So Vogue France had, like, guest editors once a year for a long time. A lot of film directors and Alfred Hitchcock, David Hockney.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Jacobs]

How chic.

[Anna Wintour]

Right? Right. So there have been guest editors, but American Vogue has never had a guest editor. And you asked whose idea was it? It was Anna Winter's idea.

[Marc Jacobs]

Okay.

[Chloe Mao]

Why?

[Taylor Antrim]

I don't know if anyone really knows what prompted her. There's some stories, but apparently there was a lunch at Balthazar which poor Marc Jacobs had no idea what was about to be presented to him.

[Marc Jacobs]

But over his chicken pillard.

[Taylor Antrim]

Over his chicken paillard.

[Anna Wintour]

Both ordered chicken paillard. He likes to say that he had the side of mash.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yes.

[Anna Wintour]

She did not.

[Taylor Antrim]

She did not. And lo and behold, Anna pulls out an envelope and had done sort of a mock up of some ideas. So she came fully prepared, which is, of course, you know, how she works. And Mark was presented, you know, with this idea of being the first guest editor of American Vogue, which apparently he took some time to think about. I think he was a little overwhelmed by the idea initially, but he got his head around it, thankfully for us. So.

[Anna Wintour]

And there's a little bit of a, like, history here in that the December issue of Vogue has always been something in Anna's mind. It's a little special. It'll cause for celebration. We usually try to sort of tailor the fashion stories and the features towards that kind of theme and mood. And then there was also this Problem of timing, which is that we would be making the December issue in a time before the presidential election, and it would be coming out after the presidential election. So there's really no way around that. There was no way to know what was going to happen and meet the moment afterwards. So she thought to herself, as she said to me, that why don't we do something really special? That's just like a gift. Nothing to do with politics whatsoever, really. Just like a really creative sort of issue. Seems like a great opportunity to bring someone else in to do it. And Mark thought the same way. He didn't want to do anything to do with the news or with politics. It really was meant to be kind of a bit of a creative escape, I would say.

[Marc Jacobs]

Were there, like, second and third choices for guest editors or was it Mark or bust?

[Anna Wintour]

It was Mark or bust. Mark was the only one. So Anna and Mark have a long relationship and they really. They're really quite close. Yeah.

[Marc Jacobs]

When did they meet? Do we know that?

[Taylor Antrim]

I don't know when they met, to be honest. I think Anna has supported Mark through when his business was great and at times when it was, you know, more challenging. And they really have a deep respect for each other. And that was really apparent during this process.

[Anna Wintour]

Totally.

[Taylor Antrim]

Which, thank goodness it was there because, you know, as we'll get into in a minute, there were times that were a little more challenging for both of us. But the fact that they really do admire and respect each other was really evident throughout the process.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah. So she was like, it's only Mark. It's not like who should be the guest editor of this issue. It was Marc Jacobs. And by the time she was telling me about it, he'd already said yes, I guess. So this was a fait accompli. And she was scheduling the first meeting. And on and on we went. I mean, that was months ahead, too. That was like last spring.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, really?

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah. It was crazy. She works very far in advance.

[Choma Nardi]

Wow.

[Marc Jacobs]

Well, so what were those early meetings like?

[Anna Wintour]

So I would say they do have such long standing respect and admiration for each other. They're really good friends. They are not the same person at all. So in what way?

[Marc Jacobs]

Let's fill that in.

[Anna Wintour]

So Anna arrives to these meetings. She's basically got the whole thing mapped out in her head. You know, forget the fact that she's actually bringing in a guest editor. She had all these ideas and really a timetable that was quite accelerated. She wanted decisions to be made right away. I remember looking at Mark, who I was actually meeting for the first time. And he looked a little thunderstruck by the whole thing. I mean, at times I thought to myself that he was desperate to escape.

[Taylor Antrim]

Mark is someone who. I think his creative process is much different than Anna's. I mean, Anna, the way she works, as we all know, is, you know, she is the most efficient person on the face of the earth. If there's an issue, she wants it resolved right then and there. And then she moves on to the next thing.

[Anna Wintour]

That's right.

[Taylor Antrim]

Marc Jacobs likes to think about things. He likes to mull things over. He likes to have more time. He likes to reconsider them, come back to them. It's just how he works. So that is the antithesis of how we are used to working at Vogue. So I think Mark, in that first meeting, I honestly sort of thought he was gonna run out and never come back again. I thought we were gonna get a call later on saying, you know what, thanks, but this is not for me.

[Marc Jacobs]

What were some of the conversations that first meeting?

[Taylor Antrim]

I just remember being sort of rapid fire ideas that were coming to him left and right, and. And I was trying to plan, like, a very linear sort of almost like a document, basically, that would have a document of ideas. And that is so not what was happening in this meeting. So it was Mark sort of definitely coming up with his own ideas, too, and his own, you know, but also sort of trying to react to what was coming at him so quickly.

[Anna Wintour]

She had a lot of incoming.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah, he had a lot of income.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah. But, like, it's also, he's not an editor, and he was the first to say that. And so I think there was also a process of him thinking through the fact that the December issue needed to have a real variety of things in it, like any magazine does. Like, we've. Virginia and I have been doing this for a long time and creating a print magazine, which is quite a, you know, antique thing to be doing these days, is about curating and it's about the mix. Right. And I had the feeling that he was thinking more of, like, a single point of view running through it. Like maybe one photographer does the whole thing. You know, that was an idea he had. And that really does run counter to what we often do, though. That was interesting. You know, I think those early meetings, as much as they were sort of like, you know, Anna talking over Mark as much as anything else, they were generative. You know, it was interesting to watch these ideas take shape. Like, Mark was like, I love flowers. I love reading. Literacy is very important to me. I love Meisel. Steven Meisel, the photographer. Things that actually came about in the issue when it finally was finished, were brought up in that first meeting.

[Taylor Antrim]

That's true. We were so lucky to have Steven Meisel do the COVID shoot. And Mark was very much hoping he would do that. And it was one of his favorite photographers. So that did come out very early on in that first meeting. And I think also he talked about wanting to do something that was celebratory, that was a celebration of creativity. There were some good things that came out of that first meeting.

[Anna Wintour]

He said he wanted to make something that would make people happy, and that is absolutely in step with what Anna was thinking. So that was good to hear. The other thing, that, of course, with any magazine, you do start with a cover to some degree. And he really knew who he wanted to be his cover star, which was Anna. And Anna was not having that. So she politely let him say it one or two times, and then she shut it down and she said, it's not happening.

[Chloe Mao]

Move on.

[Anna Wintour]

And that was the end of that. Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Jacobs]

But you did get a pretty iconic image of Anna in the image.

[Anna Wintour]

In the image.

[Chloe Mao]

Right.

[Anna Wintour]

There was also, in those earliest meetings, someone said it was Mark, probably. Someone said, we have to have a picture of the two bobs. So Anna's hairstyle, Mark's hairstyle, like, uncannily similar, needed to be shot from behind. So we have these two bobs. And so. And indeed, we. You did create that picture, and it's really great.

[Marc Jacobs]

Did the outcome of the election either direction change the way you were approaching this?

[Anna Wintour]

It was all done and dusted by the time the election came around. There was one thing we had to sort through, which is, again, when you're creating a magazine that goes to the printer, there is a set date when it's going to come out, and you need to launch it or it will leak. And so you really are looking at a pretty rigid set of dates when you can start to launch things online and on Instagram and all those good things you want to do as a title like ours. The dates that the printing would demand is that we launch it on November 5th. And we were like, this is not going to work. This is not going to work. So we really.

[Marc Jacobs]

November 5th was election day, for those who don't recall.

[Anna Wintour]

Exactly. So we had to go the 11th hour. We had to go to the printer and change the schedule so that we could launch after the election.

[Marc Jacobs]

Okay, so Anna did not want herself to be on the COVID Did Mark immediately have his Next idea or was that a evolving conversation?

[Taylor Antrim]

I think Kya came up very early on in the conversation. Like she was definitely after he got over Anna. Kya. Sorry, Kya, you weren't second choice, really. But Kaia was really discussed because he loves her and has a long standing relationship with her. And so she was settled on early on. And we actually did that shoot really early. We did it this summer and Grace Coddington did that story with us. And we spent a very fun Friday afternoon in the Vogue closet with a very good natured Kaya. Because Mart's clothes are these magical creations, but they take a lot to get on and off. Right.

[Anna Wintour]

And all the clothes in that shoot were Martha's clothes.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yes.

[Anna Wintour]

So that was a unique thing that we.

[Taylor Antrim]

That was a unique thing. And Mark was very keen. You know, he wasn't. We had to even talk to him about that if he would feel comfortable with that, because we felt we wanted to celebrate Mark in that way. And Mark's very much about wanting to shine the light on others. But he agreed to have the COVID story be only his collection. And it was actually so, so fun. It was great to be working with Grace again. It really felt like coming back home in a way.

[Marc Jacobs]

And there's another cover.

[Anna Wintour]

That's right. I was gonna say. So he also. This was either the first or the second meeting. He talked about the painter Anna Wyant, who is someone he loves and a friend of his and whose work he reveres. And he said from the jump, he was like, we should do a art cover as well as a portrait cover. And so he wanted Anna Wyant to paint Kaya. There is some history of art covers at Vogue. John Curran painted Jennifer Lawrence, like eight years ago or so on the COVID of the September issue. So he was thinking of that. But he was also just really wanting to shine a light on Anna Wyatt, who's a superstar all herself. But she came to the fitting that Virginia was just describing, right. And got a little time with Kya and, you know, got her, you know, photographs that she needed to do her painting. And then she went away and did this amazing painting.

[Marc Jacobs]

So obviously for any shoot at Vogue, but especially for a cover shoot, Anna's very involved in the choice of clothing. The direction that it's going in. There is, as we know, many run through. How did that work for this issue? Was Mark involved in the run throughs? Was Mark sending creative briefs to Grace and Steven?

[Taylor Antrim]

Mark came to the shoot. He was at the shoot with Grace and Steven. And, you know, obviously the Clothes were the clothes.

[Chloe Mao]

So.

[Taylor Antrim]

And he. But he and Grace had many conversations about which looks should be chosen. I mean, they were. You know, Grace goes into great detail about everything. That's what makes her an incredible editor. So she and Mark had many, many conversations. And Michael Arellano, who does PR for Mark, who is, you know, very much a partner to us in this process, we would be constantly updating the boards, which is, you know, how we keep up with what we're shooting. So there was a lot of back and forth on those boards. You know, to be honest, those clothes were so, you know, upbeat and fun that, you know, there was not exactly a bad choice.

[Chloe Mao]

Right.

[Marc Jacobs]

There's some incredible images in this issue, and I'm curious about, like, the dance shoot, which is. Seemed like a Herculean undertaking, I have to say.

[Chloe Mao]

When I looked at it, I was.

[Marc Jacobs]

Like, thrilled I wasn't a part of this.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah, some 20, 22 pages, something like that.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah. And about, you know, 45 trunks of clothes leaving the building. You know, it was quite something. And Ezin Venood did that shoot with Alastair McKim, who works with Mark on his shows, but someone we had not worked with before. And it was amazing to be able to work with him.

[Anna Wintour]

The theme of it, dance, is sort of fitting into this idea of joy and happiness. And Mark really was so gung ho about that idea. And Raul Martinez, who's our creative director, and he's known Mark since high school. They were in high school gym class together.

[Marc Jacobs]

I just learned that.

[Choma Nardi]

That is crazy.

[Chloe Mao]

Where?

[Anna Wintour]

Here in New York. Wasn't it LaGuardia?

[Taylor Antrim]

Yes, it might have been LaGuardia. I just found that out too. I was shocked. I never knew that.

[Chloe Mao]

Nor I.

[Anna Wintour]

Right. So he revealed that early on, and we were all like, what? You were in high school with him? Anyway, so he knows Mark really well and knows that they both love dance. And anyway, he'd done all these sort of mood boards about dance, and it looked amazing. So that was sort of where it started. And there was a lot of brainstorming and casting of finding dancers, but, you know, it was always gonna be models, too, and a mix of street dancers and maybe, you know, a ballet. Classically trained ballet dancer or two. And then just the important thing was that it would span every kind of dance.

[Chloe Mao]

I'm Nomi Frye.

[Nomi Frye]

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[Virginia Smith]

I'm Alex Schwartz. And we are Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. Guys, what do we do on the show every week?

[Nomi Frye]

We look into the startling maw of our culture and try to figure something out.

[Virginia Smith]

That's right. We take something that's going on in the culture now. Maybe it's a movie, maybe it's a book. Maybe it's just kind of a trend that we see floating in the ether.

[Chloe Mao]

And we expand it across culture as.

[Marc Jacobs]

Kind of a pattern or a template.

[Nomi Frye]

We talked about the midlife crisis starting with a new book by Miranda July, but then we kind of ended up talking about Dante's Inferno.

[Chloe Mao]

You know, we talked about Kate Middleton, her so called disappearance, and from that we moved into right wing conspiracy theories.

[Nomi Frye]

Alex basically promised to explain to me why everybody likes the Beatles.

[Virginia Smith]

You know, we've also noticed that advice is everywhere. Advice columns, advice giving. And we kind of want to look at why. Join us on Critics at Large from the New Yorker. New episodes drop every Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marc Jacobs]

I have to admit my very favorite part about the holidays is doing all of my gift giving and gift prepping. I love getting a special thing for everyone who are the hardest people on my list to shop for for quality gifts at an affordable price. My go to is Quince. Something that everyone needs in their closet in my opinion is Quince's iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters which start at $50. Personally, I love getting these for my kids. They have Quince jeans and Quince cashmere pullovers. Whatever you're looking for. All Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. How do they do that, you wonder? By partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman which passes the savings on to you. Gift Luxury this holiday season without the luxury price Tag, go to Quince.com RunThrough for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U I N C-E.com RunThrough to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com RunThrough okay, now I wanna know about one of the more difficult parts of this maybe issue was the albatross that was Mark's house.

[Anna Wintour]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Jacobs]

Mark lives in this iconic Frank Lloyd Wright house in Westchester that I feel like has the white whale of every magazine editor for the past five years. People are desperate to shoot this house.

[Anna Wintour]

So early on there was this idea of like, well, if Marc Jacobs is going to guest edit this issue, he has got to give us his house, right? But these were just like Vogue people saying this. None of this was coming from Mark, right? And Raoul was really important here. Raoul was sort of the Mark whisperer. And I think he just, he was, you know, wonderful the way Raul is, but also relentless. Being like, Mark, you're gonna let us shoot like at least a room, two rooms, three rooms.

[Taylor Antrim]

Because Mark kept insisting it wasn't ready, it wasn't ready, it wasn't ready. But Anna was hearing none of that. Something was going to be ready, but.

[Anna Wintour]

It took a long time and it was never clear to me. Being I assign all the features and needed to get a writer on this kind of thing, this story, if it was going to happen, it was never 1000% clear to me that it was going to happen. And then lo and behold, we hear that Marc Jacobs has lined up the incredible art photographer Gregory Crutzen to come and do one picture of the great room, which is this sort of living room at this Frank Lloyd Wright house. Gregory Crutzen, his work is very cinematic. It mixes sort of realism and the uncanny. I mean, his pictures are really just legendary. But he does not work on a small scale. So just the permits to make sure this shoot could happen. I mean, Gregory Krewson arrived with some 40 people.

[Chloe Mao]

Oh, wow.

[Anna Wintour]

And it was an all day shoot. It's like filming a movie to get one picture. Wow. The other thing is, like, Krewson's pictures are quite unsettling.

[Chloe Mao]

Spooky.

[Anna Wintour]

Spooky. Sort of haunted, one might say. Yes, in the best possible way. But our boss, Anna Wintour, doesn't love spooks. She's not inclined in that direction. I would, I thought to myself, oh, my goodness, when this Gregory Crewson picture hits Vogue hq, it's really gonna be something.

[Marc Jacobs]

And what was the reaction?

[Anna Wintour]

Oh, she loved it. I mean, this picture is undeniable. It is so cool. And it's got Mark sitting in the chair in the middle of his living room and his husband, like, wrapped in a blanket out in the mist outside. And it's just like it is dark and it is a little unsettling. But I was actually there when Anna saw it for the first time. And I've come to understand her sort of demeanor. When she's impressed by something, it's quite muted, you know, blink and you miss it. But I saw it. I was like, oh, she likes this. She likes this. Anyway, it's a triumph. It's such an amazing picture to have Mark also, I just want to say something about the writing in the issue and with this house story, it's a great place to start because Mark wanted to write his own piece about his own house. And this Would not be some kind of, like, ghost written heels to, you know, give someone a few notes, and you whip it up and he sort of signs off. This was truly something that he labored over. And it's such a personal piece of writing about his attachment to this house, the whole journey of buying it and renovating it, which sounds, you know, like quite the adventure, Quite the expensive adventure. And it's really a great read. It's on our site, obviously, and on the app, and you gotta read it. It's great.

[Marc Jacobs]

I loved the nails feature, which was also. Alastair McCampbe oversaw that.

[Anna Wintour]

Right.

[Marc Jacobs]

Which was sort of impossible beauty or impractical.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah. Everybody knows about Mark's nails. So this was gonna be. He really wanted to celebrate nails, but.

[Marc Jacobs]

It was sort of over the top nails and eyelashes. Yes.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yeah. And Jeremy O. Harris wrote a piece that accompanies the pictures. But that actually was one of the things that was discussed very early on in the process that we wanted to, you know, celebrate Mark's love of his nails.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah. And he said, you know, it wasn't clear immediately that Jeremiah Harris was great. And that essay is also, like, a must read in the issue. It's short, it's great, full of his personality. But it wasn't immediately clear what text should accompany this. And working with Mark on the feature side of things was fascinating. He's so smart, and he loves writing and reading and books, and so this stuff matters to him profoundly. But he's very specific, and we wound up working really well together. But I remember for this one, he seemed to be explaining it for the 15th time, and he's like, taylor, I just want a piece that really explains what it's like to have nails out to here. And you can't work your phone, but you are determined to have those nails because they are beauty and they make you happy and you won't live any other way. So can you just find me a piece like that? I was like, yes, sir. Anyway, Jeremy is known for some quite outrageous looks that he. Some corsets that he's strapped himself into for the Tonys and things. And so he was really on the same wavelength about suffering for your fashion and your beauty. And he wrote a great little piece.

[Chloe Mao]

I want to hear about how you.

[Marc Jacobs]

Guys felt like children of divorced parents.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah.

[Taylor Antrim]

There was a particularly tense sort of release meeting.

[Anna Wintour]

And let me just explain what a release meeting is. It's when you look at. You print out every page of the issue, and you lay it out on a table and you go around Or Anna goes around page by page, and it's really a moment to make sure all your ducks are in a row. And it is, for this purposes, the moment where the issue really needs to be. Some decisions have to be made. And up to this point, there were some Mark decisions happening, some Anna decisions happening, and we weren't entirely sure they were the same decisions. And so that leads us to this. That was just Anna, not Mark, and all of us with her. And we printed out the issue, and we had the layouts that she was seeing, but also the layouts that Mark was seeing. And so there were a lot of options.

[Taylor Antrim]

There were a lot of options. And finally she said her immortal words. Mark doesn't like to hear the word no, and neither do I. So at that point, we had reached an impasse. She's like, taylor, Virginia, Taylor, Virginia, you.

[Anna Wintour]

Have to go over there and get him to understand that these are the layouts.

[Taylor Antrim]

We were mortified. I mean, we had to take the book to 72 Spring Street. I felt like we were like kids in trouble. But thankfully, Mark also understood that we were mortified. And we went through the book sort of page by page, actually. Oh, it was great.

[Marc Jacobs]

It was there a compromise?

[Anna Wintour]

It was a fun meeting. I mean, the thing is. Yeah, there was a lot of pressure on us because for me, it felt like.

[Marc Jacobs]

Was it just the two of you?

[Anna Wintour]

It was just the two of us. And I felt a little bit like we were the emergency diplomats being sent to life.

[Virginia Smith]

You were Keri Russell.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah, exactly. To negotiated armistice. And only in person, with the physical book in my backpack, as I recall, would be the way to do this.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yes. And Michael and Nick, who were there. They were there, and they were also very helpful. And we were sort of able to iron out pretty much everything except one. There was one series of images, actually, that we were.

[Anna Wintour]

It's all in the dance portfolio.

[Taylor Antrim]

In the dance portfolio.

[Anna Wintour]

Mark was really focused on the dance portfolio being the way he wanted it, and he was seeing it. I mean, he was so gracious about a lot of what Ana wanted, And we found great compromises, but he said, these pictures need to be in, and they were not the pictures that Anna wanted to be in the dance portfolio. And so I would say we came back from our summit meeting with things like pretty settled, but not all the way settled. And the cameras were gonna roll the next day for the filmed release meeting where everyone has to be buddy, buddy.

[Marc Jacobs]

So heads could not also roll?

[Anna Wintour]

No, no, no, no. But I think Anna had also. I mean, it was fascinating to see her work and relinquish control. I mean, the issue is really different from the issues of Vogue that Virginia and I work on month after month after month. And those differences are really wonderful, and they come out of Mark's sensibility. And so I don't want to tell the story as if she forced Mark to say yes to all the things she wanted. She didn't. There were a lot of things that went his way, but these two pictures that he wanted in the dance portfolio, they did get worked out on camera. You guys can watch the video on our app. And on vogue.com, there's this great making of the issue video. It's like 15 minutes long. It's really fun. And you can see them talking about these pictures that he wanted in and she didn't win in. And Virginia, who won? Who won?

[Taylor Antrim]

Well, I think there was a lot of compromise on that.

[Anna Wintour]

You're so diplomatic. Oh, you're wonderful.

[Taylor Antrim]

I don't think it was one person is the clear winner, to be honest.

[Anna Wintour]

Guys, Anna won well on those particular spoilers.

[Taylor Antrim]

But on other things in that portfolio, Mark did win too, so totally, totally true. It was a lot of back and forth.

[Anna Wintour]

They're online, though.

[Chloe Mao]

They're great.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have many more pictures online than we were able to fit in the issue.

[Marc Jacobs]

I want to talk about my personal favorite image, which is the last look. The dog wearing Chanel. The dog whose name was Carl with a circle. Tell me about casting the dog, Virginia.

[Taylor Antrim]

I just remember at one point, I was showing Anna some pictures of a dog. She goes, I really don't think I need to see things. He goes, I defer to Mark on the dog.

[Anna Wintour]

Mark had a dog in mind he'd seen on Instagram.

[Taylor Antrim]

Yes. And my colleague Willow Lindley also got very heavily tangled up in this process, too. So shout out to Willow for really going, like, full into the dog casting. But finally, we found a New York dog named Carl who was shot by two photographers named Matt and Cat, which I think is sort of fabulous, fantastic. But Carl, the expression of Carl makes me smile every time.

[Anna Wintour]

And wearing Chanel, I mean, there is something so wonderfully subversive about Mark, you know, that he wants to have this, like, you know, piece of Chanel jewelry on a dog on the last page. I mean, it's good natured. But, guys, you have to get the physical issue, because on the contributors page, which is only exists in print, there's this genius layout where we have a grid of all the dogs that vied for this position. Only one of them, Carl, got it. So all of the, like, dogs who didn't make the cut. They're adorable. They're on the contributor's page. It's great. I do want to shout out the novelist Dana Spiotta, who wrote the COVID story, and it is Danis. Biota's never done a magazine cover story like this before, and she. It was a great choice for Kaya because sort of the premise of the Kaya story was a lot to do about Kaia's love of books and her, you know, incredibly successful online book club, Library Science. She was so game and it's a really great piece. And Kaya loved meeting her and really felt like she was, you know, seen and taken seriously. So that was a real success. And I think having some really great writing in the issue, as well as great photography and great fashion was important.

[Marc Jacobs]

Excellent. Well, thank you guys so much. Congratulations.

[Anna Wintour]

Thanks.

[Marc Jacobs]

Quite a coup.

[Chloe Mao]

It's the first time in a long.

[Marc Jacobs]

Time I've had people ask me for print issues.

[Anna Wintour]

Yeah, they're really. I think you really gotta have one.

[Chloe Mao]

Yeah.

[Anna Wintour]

It's so fun to see the whole package in print.

[Choma Nardi]

That's it for the show.

[Taylor Antrim]

Bye.

[Chloe Mao]

The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis, Luke Mosley and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoki is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's Head of Global Audio.

[Taylor Antrim]

From prx.