Vogue Editors’ First Thoughts From PARIS! | PLUS Sally Singer on The New Guard of Designers

Summary

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The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode Title: Vogue Editors’ First Thoughts From PARIS! | PLUS Sally Singer on The New Guard of Designers
Date: October 2, 2025
Hosts: Nicole Phelps, Mark Holgate, Choma Nardi, Chloe Malle
Special Guest: Sally Singer

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Run-Through delivers an on-the-ground, inside-the-van account of Paris Fashion Week, featuring Vogue editors’ visceral, real-time reactions to the season’s most anticipated designer debuts and runway shows. The episode is split into two main segments: first, editors share impressions of Paris’s marquee shows and new creative directions at heritage houses, followed by a deep-dive interview with legendary Vogue editor Sally Singer on fashion’s shifting guard, designer longevity, and the emotional resonance of style.

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Paris Fashion Week: Editors’ Immediate Reactions

Setting the Scene

• Editors Nicole Phelps and Mark Holgate report from the back of a van cruising Paris, en route to pivotal shows, soaking in the city’s atmosphere.
• The anticipation centers especially around Jonathan Anderson’s debut at Dior, which is described as the most buzzed-about event of the season ([02:34]).

Highlights From Recent Shows

Saint Laurent

• Atmosphere: A night show under the Eiffel Tower, with floral installations and the scent of Opium fragrance wafting through the air ([03:03], [03:25]).
• Fashion Take:
  • Anthony Vaccarello’s collection revisits Saint Laurent codes with cinematic flair, roughened leathers in couture shapes, and references to YSL's early beatnik transgressions.
  • “The finale were those dresses which were kind of billowing, very kind of Nan Kempner 80s ball gowns, but were literally treated like T-shirts...movement, movement, movement.”
    — Mark Holgate ([04:52])

Dries van Noten

• Julien Clausner's Womenswear: Inspired by surfers; a play on lightness, optimism, electric caftans, and floating silhouettes.
• Clausner wanted to reproduce the “optimistic and light and joyful” reaction to his previous men’s show ([05:43]).

Louis Vuitton

• Nicolas Ghesquière's Innovation: Show in a Louvre wing originally for Queen Anne of Austria.
• "He’s just really leaning into the experimentation with the silhouettes, with the techniques, with the finishes...isn't that what we need right now?"
  — Mark Holgate ([06:39])

Stella McCartney

• Eco-Innovation: Debut of Puretech, a fabric woven into jeans that helps clean the air—blending conscience, wit, and feminine sensibility ([07:21]).

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Live Show Reactions & First Reviews

Tom Ford by Haider Ackermann

• Key Impressions:
  • “An incredible piece of such tightly controlled theater. And then incredible clothes. And then David Bowie on the soundtrack singing this very acapella, ish version of Heroes.”
    — Mark Holgate ([09:52])
  • Haider Ackermann’s collection is praised for reclaiming ‘sexy’ from just ‘sensual.’
  • “Polly Haider Ackermann has recuperated the term sexy...that was sexy, and he's proud of it, and he did it beautifully.”
    — Mark Holgate ([10:18])

Dior by Jonathan Anderson

• Video & Atmosphere: Opening video is “almost confrontational, dark...a bit like Dario Argento let loose on the Dior archive.”
  — Mark Holgate, Nicole Phelps, Claire Thompson ([12:05])
• Collection Notes: Incorporates elements both soft and constricting, explorations of the bar jacket, and inventive uses of signature pieces.
• “He’s in charge now.”
  — Nicole Phelps ([12:13])

Balmain by Olivier Rousteing

• Setting: At the historic Intercontinental, where Rousteing had his first Balmain show at age 23 ([13:04]).
• Collection: Less baroque, more organic embellishment, marine references ("couture sand"), more drape—a reflection of Rousteing’s evolution and underdog status despite years in the role ([14:18]).
• Industry Commentary: Familiarity can lead to disregard, but Rousteing’s growth is evident; “what he’s done here is he’s built a very small house...into a house that has sales...at least 10 times more than when he started.”
  — Luke, Backstage Reporter ([14:07], [15:42])

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Sally Singer: The New Guard, Longevity & Lessons in Fashion

Looking Back: The Last "Changing of the Guard"

• Sally recalls her 2000 “new guard” profile for Vogue: “There was this very precise, slightly downbeat in the best way, like not logoed, not excessive, and not also so stripped back as to just be minimalism vibe coming out of Belgium.”
  — Sally Singer ([17:39])
• Recollection of an era: Marc Jacobs at Vuitton, Nicolas Ghesquière’s early collections, Eddie Slimane, Anne and Philippe van der Vost, Dries van Noten, etc.

What’s Different Now?

• Singer argues today’s turnover is unprecedented—not just new brands, but new creative leads at the world’s most powerful heritage houses. Cites the “LVMH moment” of the late 1990s/early 2000s, but says the current moment is broader and even more high-stakes for legacy brands ([24:10]).
• The challenge for today’s designers: “They're maintaining an entertainment channel and they still have to design jackets with two sleeves and, you know, a waist.”
  — Sally Singer ([25:15])
• Unlike film directors, fashion designers are expected to produce constantly.

Maintaining Creative Integrity

• “The people who do it best and feel the happiest...everything that comes from them at any iteration...is truly a part of their vision. And they don't compromise at all.”
  — Sally Singer ([27:41])
• Cites Dries van Noten, Rick Owens as models of longevity through uncompromised vision: “A Dries show was always a Dries show... Even if fashion was moving in another direction, Dries was moving in Dries direction.”
  ([27:41])
• “That doesn't mean that everything you do will sell... But at least you know who you are at the end of the day.”
  — Sally Singer ([29:46])

New Leadership at Iconic Houses

• Talks up Jonathan Anderson at Dior, Louise Trotter at Bottega Veneta, Jack and Lazaro taking Loewe, Pierpaolo at Balenciaga ([25:15]-[34:14]).
• On Pierpaolo Piccioli: “He can make clothes that make a woman feel magnificent. Not beautiful, but magnificent.”
  — Sally Singer ([34:14])

The Importance of Grown-Ups in Leadership

• “I'm very pleased...how many grown-ups were put in houses—how many people who really have a track record, who have worked hard, who do know how to dress people…”
  — Sally Singer ([37:37])

On Craft, Aspiration, and Levity

• “In a world that's increasingly fraught...we need a vision of beauty that's beyond anything—we need magnificence. Fashion can lead in this...not as a balm, but as something that reminds you there is art, there is beauty...”
  — Sally Singer ([36:18])

Fashion’s Relationship with Social Media

• Reflects on Vogue’s early digital days: “I just felt that if we had the ability to do things in motion and...in sound and to do things differently, then we had to translate Vogue in a very different way.”
  ([40:29])
• On TikTok: “I love vertical video...when it's done well, brilliant. When it's not done well, it's whatever it is. It's entertainment, it's funny, it's banal.”
  — Sally Singer ([41:08])
• “Content, as it's called, should be very specific [to the platform]. But the intention, the ambition, the aspiration, the humor should come from a place that's deep and within you...”
  — Sally Singer ([41:28])

The Lasting Power of Great Images

• “There is still a hunger for beautiful still imagery... The sort of things that will last a test of time, that people will remember.”
  — Sally Singer ([43:14])
• Names legacy Vogue photographers; stillness and time to sit with images matter.

Sally’s Personal Fashion Archive and Style Philosophy

• Loves to revisit and rewear clothes by designers who’ve maintained authenticity: Jack and Lazaro's striped tees, Rick Owens, AF Van der Vos, early Marco Zanini and Josephus Timister skirts (“not because I’m some sort of sad person who keeps shopping their closet. It’s because things that I love from people I love, I will wear to the ends.”) ([33:02])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I think Jonathan is really going to want to lean very heavily into pushing the ateliers to make the most kind of fantastic, creative things.”
— Mark Holgate on Anderson's Dior, [08:08]

“When I saw all of those leathers done in quite a kind of couture-y way...it did remind me of a very, very early, early Saint Laurent for Dior collection...movement, movement, movement.”
— Mark Holgate on Saint Laurent, [04:52]

“I think he [Julian] brought it. I have to say, I thought that collection looked great.”
— Mark Holgate on Dries van Noten, [05:43]

“Polly Haider Ackermann has recuperated the term sexy...that was sexy, and he's proud of it, and he did it beautifully.”
— Mark Holgate, [10:18]

“It felt a bit like Dario Argento let loose on the Dior archive. That was kind of the vibe.”
— Mark Holgate on Dior’s show video, [12:08]

“Familiarity doesn't breed exactly contempt, but it breeds a form of disregard...what he's done here is he's built a very small house that had sales in the tens of millions into a house that has sales...at least 10 times more than when he started.”
— Luke on Olivier Rousteing, [14:07], [15:42]

“They're maintaining an entertainment channel and they still have to design jackets with two sleeves... That’s a very hard thing to do. We don't demand that of film directors.”
— Sally Singer, [25:15]

“You have to be yourself 24/7, and then everything you touch should reflect you. And everyone who works for you should reflect that vision. And if you do that well, you know it'll work.”
— Sally Singer, [27:41]

“In a world that's increasingly fraught, hostile, troubled... we need a vision of beauty that's beyond anything. We need magnificence. Fashion can lead in this.”
— Sally Singer, [36:18]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:46 Editors hit the ground in Paris—van ride overview
• 02:05 Setting the scene: Paris in autumn, anticipation for Dior
• 03:03 Saint Laurent under the Eiffel Tower: scene & show reaction
• 04:52 Movement and material at Saint Laurent
• 05:43 Dries van Noten, optimism, and ease
• 06:14 Louis Vuitton: experimentation & spectacle
• 07:15 Stella McCartney’s Puretech innovation
• 09:32 Tom Ford’s “sexy” theatrical turn by Haider Ackermann
• 11:14 Dior’s confrontational debut video & bold new direction
• 12:35 Balmain’s Olivier Rousteing and lessons on fashion longevity
• 15:42 Sally Singer interview begins
• 17:39 Sally reflects on “new guard” story and late ’90s/2000s scene
• 24:10 On today’s unprecedented turnover at iconic fashion houses
• 25:15 The relentless demands and scale of creative director jobs in 2025
• 27:41 Lessons in authenticity: the enduring vision of Dries, Rick Owens
• 34:14 Sally’s hopes for Pierpaolo at Balenciaga; excitement for innovations
• 36:18 Why “magnificence” and artistry matter more than ever
• 40:29 The evolution and specificity of fashion’s social media presence
• 43:14 The lasting impact of beautiful fashion imagery

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Conclusion

This episode captures the pulse of Paris Fashion Week as new creative leads debut at legendary fashion houses and long-time industry voices reflect on what it means to make fashion matter. The editors’ reports mix color, wit, and fandom (“movement, movement, movement”) with sharp appraisals. Sally Singer delivers an inspiring meditation on integrity, aspiration, and the realities for designers now, leaving listeners with the sense that the future of fashion, though daunting, is as dazzling as ever—if not more so.

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Transcript

[Chloe Mao]

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[Nicole Phelps]

Right now, we are in the back of Cali's van.

[Shoma Nardi]

Hi, Callie.

[Mark Holgate]

Hi.

[Nicole Phelps]

Bonjour. Callie's the best driver in Paris.

[Alex DePalma]

We just ran into Francesca Ragazzi from Bogue Italia.

[Shoma Nardi]

Hello. Ciao tutti from Paris.

[Alex DePalma]

Guys, I have to admit, I lost Nicole. I lost Nicole. I'm gonna find her, though.

[Nicole Phelps]

This is the run through. I'm Nicole Phelps.

[Mark Holgate]

And I'm Mark Holgate.

[Nicole Phelps]

And today is the first day we're recording from Paris Fashion. So how does this work exactly? Every episode this week, we'll spend a few minutes with editors as they debrief their live reactions to and from the shows. We're gonna be talking all week with special guests. Different guests are gonna come in the van. Today. Choma talked to longtime Vogue editor and current president of art and commerce at wme, Sally Singer, my former boss, about what she's looking forward to in this pivotal moment in fashion and how her early days at Vogue went down. But before we hear from her, I am here with my dear colleague Mark Holgate. So, Mark, tell me, where are we at this exact moment?

[Mark Holgate]

We're driving on the other side of the river from the Eiffel Tower. And I'm doing my usual gawping at the Eiffel Tower as if I'd never seen it before, which I do every time I see the Eiffel Tower. But that's where we are right now. We're just driving along past the Seine, and it is a beautiful sunny. It's the autumn leaves and it is a beautiful sunny day here in gay Paris.

[Nicole Phelps]

The traffic is not as bad as it could possibly be, and we are on our way to Jonathan Anderson's Dior.

[Mark Holgate]

We are indeed. Which I think to say anticipation is probably not a strong enough word for the kind of levels of excitement and intrigue and curiosity that we have for Jonathan's debut Womenswear collection. I think we're all probably playing up the show as we imagine it in our head before we see it. You know, is the peplum gonna be there? How's he gonna tackle the bar jacket? But we don't know until we get there.

[Nicole Phelps]

Before we talk predictions, let's backtrack a little bit. Mark. We were together at St Laurent again underneath the Eiffel Tower at night. On Monday night, it's twinkling. There are about a million, maybe a billion hydrangeas arranged in the logo ysl.

[Mark Holgate]

I was glad I took my Claritin.

[Nicole Phelps]

And Opium being piped through the show space for sure. Opium, the fragrance, I have to say.

[Mark Holgate]

You know, with Anthony Vaccarello. Do you wonder if the success of Saint Laurent Productions, the cinematic division of the House of Saint Laurent, has encouraged him to think even more kind of dramatically and cinematically about his shows? And I really like the way Anthony kind of revisited and always revisits the codes of Saint Laurent and then kind of twists and turns them. When I saw all of those leathers done in kind of quite a kind of couture y kind of way. But the leather was kind of roughed up, but the shapes were beautiful. There's kind of narrow skirts, leather skirts. It did remind me of a very, very early, early Saint Laurent for Dior collection, the kind of beatnik collection, because it was at that point seen as being so transgressive. And then it moved into the kind of utility dresses that Saint Laurent himself always did for many, many years, but done in this kind of almost like parachute silk style nylon. And then the finale were those dresses which were kind of billowing, very kind of Nan Kempner 80s ball gowns, but were literally treated like T shirts. They mean they moved with such kind of fluidity and ease. And that's the one thing I feel like I keep seeing is like movement. Movement. Movement.

[Nicole Phelps]

Yeah, totally. I mean, think about Julian Clausner's show at Dries van Noten yesterday. He was thinking about surfers. And so on the one hand, there were these scuba type shapes, but then very light printed in electric colors, caftans. And they too, had that really nice floating sensation as the models walk by in the Palais de Tokyo. And in fact, when I talked to him in the studio the day before the show, he was talking about how the reactions to his men's show in June and how the sarongs and the ease of that collection, people came up to him afterwards and said, oh, you know, it just felt so optimistic and light and joyful. And he loved that reaction so much, he wanted to reproduce it in the women's wear, is what he said.

[Mark Holgate]

Yeah. I think Julian is successful at Dries van Oten because he understands those clothes need to elicit an emotion. You know, it's not just about sitting there saying, well, that's really kind of conceptual and kind of interesting. It's not played out at some intellectual only play. And even though I think he's actually a very thoughtful designer, but he really understands Greece has to give you an emotion. And I think he brought it. I have to say, I thought that collection looked great.

[Nicole Phelps]

What other emotions were conjured for you yesterday at vuitton or Stella McCartney?

[Mark Holgate]

Well, kind of awe at Louis Vuitton, because I believe, I know that Nicolas was looking at the idea of home, the idea of the domestic environment. Believe me, I would love my domestic environment to look like a wing of the Louvre. I mean, I can't remember which aristocrat that was.

[Nicole Phelps]

Apparently Queen Anne. Anne. Anne of Austria.

[Mark Holgate]

Do you think she Airbnbs it? Do you think we can, like, maybe rent it?

[Nicole Phelps]

Those were just her summer residences. Let me clarify.

[Mark Holgate]

I wonder what the win. Maybe it's like that, but with like a central heating. I don't know. Anyway, I do think again, having had the privilege of seeing Nicolas resort collection in the south of France. And then to go to this, I love the way that he's just really leaning into the experimentation with the silhouettes, with the techniques, with the finishes. I think he's just really intent on being as out there and kind of interesting and creative as he possibly can, which, you know, like, isn't that what we need right now?

[Nicole Phelps]

Talk about the innovation that we saw at Stella McCartney last night. You wrote the review and you called out something in particular.

[Mark Holgate]

I did. There was two things that really impressed me about Stella McCartney's show. One thing was this. Look, I'm not a tech person, certainly not a scientist. I can barely read a shampoo bottle label. But she did this thing called Puretech, which is something that could be woven into a pair of jeans, and it helps clean the air. And I do like the way that there's always this conscience, but then it's always delivered with wit and kind of humor and I think a very female centric approach to design.

[Nicole Phelps]

All right, well, I see that our colleagues are already live blogging from Dior, so we have only a few minutes left before we get out of this car. What are you expecting from Jonathan Anderson at Dior?

[Mark Holgate]

I O the crystal ball might be a little Bit murky. I feel like. I think Jonathan is really going to want to lean very heavily into pushing the ateliers to make the most kind of fantastic, creative things. I think when you look to the men's show, you saw all of those beautiful kind of. I'm gonna call them Louis Cannes jackets. I don't know if that's what they were, but, you know, those remarkable jackets, which I already feel have taken over my Instagram feed, so I feel like he'll push the craft. He already did that at Loewe, and I think for him to then be able to work with ateliers that can do exceptional work and also in a way, grounded within a very strong language of fashion. You know, the bar jacket, the new look, all of these things that are so kind of historically important in fashion. I think he's just gonna run with it and have fun.

[Nicole Phelps]

All right, we'll be back later to talk all about it.

[Alex DePalma]

This is Alex, the producer of the show. I'm standing outside. Tom Ford. Tons of people waiting for celebrities right now. All right, I see Mark Holgate and Nicole.

[Shoma Nardi]

Hi, guys.

[Claire Thompson]

We have a special appearance. Hello. Claire Thompson, Johnville.

[Alex DePalma]

Okay, amazing. Where are we coming from, guys?

[Nicole Phelps]

An excellent Tom Ford show.

[Mark Holgate]

Incredible Tom Ford by Haider Ackerman show.

[Claire Thompson]

Really stunning, beautiful.

[Nicole Phelps]

He has found his place. He really has.

[Mark Holgate]

He really has. I just thought it was an incredible piece of such tightly controlled theater. And then incredible clothes. And then David Bowie on the soundtrack singing this very acapella, ish version of Heroes.

[Tom]

It's very theatrical.

[Claire Thompson]

And the smoke. And I love, like, a sexy black sheer leather situation. It was just. Yeah, it was good.

[Mark Holgate]

I would say that Polly Hayder Ackerman has recuperated the term sexy, because I have heard designers say continuously. I hate the word sexy.

[Nicole Phelps]

It's all sensual.

[Mark Holgate]

Hate sexy. It's all sensual. That was sexy, and he's proud of it, and he did it beautifully.

[Nicole Phelps]

I am 100% aligned. And how interesting that the dresses with the one sort of the very thin strap up the middle with are a total callback to a Heider Ackerman show. Only he did them in brights. They were, like, in red and yellow and green. And I like that he's plumbing his own archive.

[Mark Holgate]

Great casting. I mean, so great.

[Claire Thompson]

I always love it when the models, you can tell that they feel really good in what they're wearing. Like, that's the sign. That's when, you know.

[Alex DePalma]

We also have to talk about where you were before this because you caught up with Stephanie on the way To Dior. How was Dior?

[Mark Holgate]

Dior was a kind of trip through Jonathan Anderson's kind of imagination with a bar jacket. It was really, I thought him showing every aspect of the house, every aspect of what he could do. You had the kind of. The soft flowing kind of dresses. You had things that were much more constricting. I know Clare had a very particular love of some of those clothes.

[Claire Thompson]

I. It's funny, like shout out for the video at the beginning, which was so slick and really quite emotional and very. I love an Ethel Kane moment. But I have to say, I am a Glaswegian. I love a mini skirt and a high heel, like a little bow and a high heel and a tiny denim mini. I'm sold. Like, I'm into it.

[Nicole Phelps]

I thought the video was almost confrontational.

[Mark Holgate]

It felt dark.

[Shoma Nardi]

I mean, it wasn't like a horror, horror movies.

[Mark Holgate]

It felt a bit like Dario Argento let loose on the Dior archive. That was kind of the vibe I.

[Nicole Phelps]

Was trying to figure out. What was he telling us he is going to do? You dare enter? Yes, he dares enter and he's in charge now.

[Alex DePalma]

So we have to run because.

[Shoma Nardi]

Where are we?

[Alex DePalma]

On our way to Balmain. We're walking into Balmain. I'm with Mark and Nicole. Huge crowd of people out here.

[Shoma Nardi]

Luke.

[Nicole Phelps]

It's before the Balman show. It is a madhouse in here. There are a lot of people eager to see Olivier's life. You've been backstage already. Tell us.

[Luke]

Backstage isn't quite as insane as front stage is at the moment, but it is very, very busy. And we're in this beautiful historic fashion room in the Intercontinental for a specific reason, which is that it was where Olivier had his very first show.

[Nicole Phelps]

I remember.

[Luke]

Me too.

[Nicole Phelps]

That was a great show.

[Luke]

It was a great show and it was a big surprise because he was the hot young thing, he was the unknown. He wasn't even 30, he wasn't even 25.

[Nicole Phelps]

Not even 25.

[Luke]

He was like 23 or 24. And he was an unknown quantity. Remember the Christophe de Canin who was the darling, the strong shouldered darling of fashion at that point had disappeared. And there was a lot of cynicism and he came and that first collection, to be fair, was very decarnanian. But then began Olivier's journey. And I think now, if you look at the list of fashion designers who've been in situ, he's maybe four third, you know, and he's not yet 40. He's about to turn 40. So I think Olivier is hitting 15 years. And I think he wanted to come back for me. I'm not sure if it's an exact anniversary, but I think it's a very conscious move in what we've been talking about this season of debuts to say I might not be the newest name on the street, but maybe you don't disregard me necessarily because I'm not the hottest latest toy. I think that's probably a subtext of being here.

[Shoma Nardi]

That makes sense.

[Nicole Phelps]

And looking at the collection, does it call back to that first one at all? Because I still want those velvet pants embroidered with pearls.

[Luke]

I'm afraid it's not as full on baroque as it was, but there is a lot of embroidered embellishment in a much more organic way. But that does also actually have a marine connection. Olivier said it's very much a summary collection and what you'll see is there's a lot of handcraft, a lot of beads, a lot of shells, a lot of drape, which is relatively new for him because it's always been about structure. Things that aren't new are the kind of tonal colors, quite nomadic vibe, quite a lot of very softened military references, A lot of soft boots with quite strong, strong floating heels. He used this funny expression. He was like, yes, I want to feel that she's on the sand, but it's couture sand, which is Olivier all over. I've been reviewing him for years. I feel great affection towards him. And I can see what I detected was his point of view, which is that we're all obsessing over these new names. He's actually younger than a lot of designers who are making their debut this season. And I think familiarity doesn't breed exactly contempt, but it breeds a form of disregard. And I think that what he's done here is he's built a very small house that had sales in the tens of millions into a house that has sales. I'm not sure exactly, but I'm sure they're at least 10 times more than when he started. So I don't. I think that's why we're here tonight.

[Nicole Phelps]

That's it for the fashion shows from Paris today. Here is Choma's. Catch up with our former boss, the one and only Sally Singer.

[Chloe Mao]

Lights, camera.

[Tom]

Fashion.

[Chloe Mao]

This year, Vogue world is heading to Hollywood. The scene, the legendary Paramount Pictures Studios lot.

[Shoma Nardi]

The plot.

[Chloe Mao]

Cinema's most iconic costumes meet fashion's biggest designers. Think Edward Scissorhands tailoring and Marie Antoinette opulence. It's drama, it's decadence, it's a costume department come to life. The countdown starts now. Learn more about the livestream event of the [e-mail] and cut.

[Tom]

Let me just say for the record, Sally is the queen of amazing white shirts and blouses. So I feel like I've bought many, many a shirt off her back almost.

[Shoma Nardi]

Yes, I can take you there.

[Tom]

So, Sally. So I mean, one thing I have to say before we get too deep in this conversation is that the conversations I have with Sally are some of my best conversations of the year. So it's always like, I think we all want to know what Sally thinks. So I'm so lucky to have known you for so long. You've been a fantastic friend, the best boss ever that I've ever had, a mentor. So I'm really honored to have you on the show. And I think every time I go to work to do anything, I think, what would Sally do?

[Shoma Nardi]

Geez. Thank you.

[Tom]

And really, really excited to have you on to just to pick your brain about how you're feeling about this really pivotal moment in fashion. We were looking back at some of the amazing fashion features that you've written over the years. And there was that one piece that had, like, Hedy Nicola and kind of this amazing changing of the guard that was. Can't believe it was 25 years ago. It feels crazy to think that, yeah.

[Shoma Nardi]

That was a big. That was a funny story. That was my first year at American Vogue. I think I'd started August or September 1999, and that story came out in the spring of 2000 or so. Right. So I think it was really my first big fashion story for American Vogue was a profile of Marc Jacobs at Vuitton that I remember because I went to Paris and spent a lot of time with him there. And remember that he edited the colors of the Haribo gummies because he didn't like candy that had the flavors of bar fruit, the Vuitton cherubs. It was the most chic thing I'd ever heard. But then that story of the new guard of designers was for me, such a moment because I had been so moved by the new generation, mostly from Belgium. And that feeling with the first collections of Olivier Teskin's Nicolas first shows, which I would put in that category, although he's French, not Belgian. Anne and Philippe van der Verst, Eddie Veronique Branchino. There was this very precise, slightly downbeat in the best way, like not logoed, not excessive, and not also so stripped back as to just be minimalism vibe coming out of Belgium at That time, like romantic stormtrooper or something that I was just fascinated by. And that story, that + Junior, who's insane genius, who's just really peaking at that moment, and all of Hussein's experimentation in London, that was just getting deeper and more interesting. It just felt like such a moment. And it felt like such a palate cleansing moment from the two strands before, which is the kind of minimalism of a Calvin and the bejangled. Bejangled of a lot of the French luxury brands at that moment. You know, Dior bags with charms hanging off them and all of that, which is fun. But it felt new and fresh and young, learned, culturally astute and uncompromising in really interesting ways. Really uncompromising. Not looking for scale, looking for a kind of depth of design. And I think that has. For the designers who have persisted. That has persisted with them. I think we still think that about Eddie Slimane. He doesn't have to dress everyone. He has to dress the people he wants to dress in the way he wants to dress them. I feel that even with Nikolai, even at Vuitton, even in such a big job, it's always clear who his woman is, you know, what he wants for her, how he thinks forward for her. So, yeah, that was an exciting piece. And also that we could fly everyone into New York. Imagine those budgets. Imagine magazines at that time.

[Tom]

Hello.

[Shoma Nardi]

And Steven Meisel. I mean.

[Tom]

Like Steven shooting it. How fab. On location. I'm not in a student, but again.

[Shoma Nardi]

You know, at that time when you did a story like that and you flew everyone in and you spent time with people and you invested in a story because it was pre social media, pre the moment when a magazine is a whole entertainment force that has to exist. You know, 24 7, 360. You didn't have to invite everyone here and then have a big party for them that's sponsored, that has pictures the next day, you didn't have to. You didn't have to make a ton of. You didn't have to make anything. You just had to make the thing. You had to make the best pictures of the best clothes with the best models at that moment, and then release it to the world as a surprise. It had that kind of crystallized authority where every cent spent was in the service of an important, important piece of journalism. And that's just not the way things are anymore. For better or worse? Better in some ways worse than others. You know, different. Just different.

[Tom]

I do want to ask you, of the designers who you spoke to then, who was the one that Surprised you the most as you've watched their career over the 25 years.

[Shoma Nardi]

Hmm, that's interesting. I think I always knew from the first moment I saw his first collection, I think for Balenciaga, that Nicola was a rock star. He seemed to have the phone number of the zeitgeist and he could just call it up. I think I found Eddie's work at that time, which was menswear, but I think it vogue that we shot it on. Shalom. I think we shot it on a woman. I thought Eddie's work in menswear was exactly the woman I wanted to be like. I always thought he just. His restraint was so desirable. It just. That persists to whatever his next job is. But it persisted through Celine. I completely adored Anne and Philippe van der Vost of AF Van der Vost. They got, you know, on the day they got married, they went swimming. They had this very funny relationship to Antwerp and their being a couple. And I think she had worked for Dries maybe originally. And they were just so delightful and likable. And he had a David Beckham like way of shifting his hair and his look where she stayed the same. And I just thought they were intoxicating. He was, you know. Yeah, he was like the peacock. And she was, you know, the sort of cool girl, solid emo chick. And actually they've just reissued a boot they probably did 25 years ago. A very strict shaft, little bit stormtrooper y, but with a kind of round toe. It's just like a. It was a great boot. And I think I had it then in a chocolate brown and I bought it in black. And it's like exactly what I want to wear now too. They had just a system of dressing, like with a trench coat and a shirt and like a straight skirt and a boot that was again, a uniform for a world I had never quite seen dressed that way. And I aspired to dress that way. And then they were so delightful, Absolutely delightful.

[Tom]

I think about now, as we're approaching this shift in this whole new God that compares in a way to that moment, or would you agree, would you say that has there been another group that compares? Has there been a moment where we've seen so much change?

[Shoma Nardi]

We've never seen so much change at the top of houses. I mean, this is established brands. These aren't even new brands coming up. That was new brands. I mean, I think Roberto Manochetti had taken over Burberry in that the late Josephus Timister, rest in peace, had taken over Balenciaga. We Had a few people who were at brands, but this is like massive commercial enterprises being helmed by new people. So so much is at stake. I don't think. No, I don't think we've ever seen anything like this again. There was a moment, an LVMH moment in the 90s to early 2000s when you had Narciso at Loewe and Michael Kors at Celine and Marc Jacobs at Vuitton. You had the American invasion of Paris. And that was a moment. That was a moment. And that was coupled as well by the British invasion of Paris with John Galliano and Lee McQueen. But that was an LVMH moment. This is an across the board moment in Milan, in Paris, in New York, to a certain extent. You have a whole bunch of new people helming houses. And it's exciting. I think it's super exciting. It's super exciting. It couldn't.

[Tom]

It is, isn't it?

[Shoma Nardi]

I literally have no idea what Matt Giu Blezzi is gonna show at Chanel and so excited to not know. So excited. I don't need to preview things. I wanna go and be amazed on the day. I'm excited for Louise Trotter at Bottega. She did a brilliant job at Carvin. Can't wait to see what she's gonna do with more at her fingertips. So it's an exciting time. I do think those lucky designers who have all those new positions. Oh, Jonathan Anderson. I mean, hello. Dying. Dying to see the women's wear. Right. I thought the men's show was incredibly smart. So shrewd and looked. And actually looks fantastic on the red carpet too now. But the job that the people taking these houses now is a very fundamentally different job than what we were looking at 25 years ago. They have to oversee a vast number of collections. They have to manage global audiences who are watching their every move, even if they're not particularly public people. They have to maintain an army of ambassadors and actresses, red carpet celebrities, models. They like figureheads to sort of represent their work around the world 24 7. So we have to. So it's always on. They're maintaining an entertainment channel and they still have to design jackets with two sleeves and, you know, a waist and maybe a chain in them or, you know, that's hard. That's really hard. We don't demand that of film directors. Christopher Nolan can drop a film every few years and everyone's very excited. Do you know what I mean? Like, these people are marshaling an army all day, every day. That's a very hard thing to do. I mean, it's the sort of thing that Karl Lagerfeld seemed to be able to do effortlessly, but very few people are Karl Lagerfeld. It's hard.

[Tom]

Do you think that this pressure, do you think this takes away from the creativity, do you think? Or do you feel like there are those people who can. I mean, when you think about Simon, you know, Port Jacquemus, I feel like the world that we move in now, the kind of channels that we have, kind of energize him too. This idea that you can command a world outside of the Runway and your influence on the red carpet and on social media has as much impact as that one day that you have to present to the fashion world.

[Shoma Nardi]

Well, I think the people who do it best with the most joy in their own lives, let's just put it that way, the people who do it well and feel the happiest in are the people who everything that comes from them at any iteration, be it a sneaker through a red carpet gown, is completely and truly part of their vision. And they don't compromise at all. And I think Simone has that in her bones. It probably comes from her father having been the daughter of a designer who really stuck by his guns, through John Rocha through his whole career and even into his interiors. And then I think the model for How To Be is Drees. Through his whole career. A Dree show was always a Dries show. Even if fashion was moving in another direction, Dries was moving in Dries direction, and Dries customers were moving with Dries. That's a beautiful legacy that now translates fabulously into beauty and fragrance. And then obviously, Rick Owens. I think Rick Owens is the designer who, whether his clothes were gonna be in vogue in a certain season or not, did his clothes for his customers was in the factory making those bias cut T shirts. So when they hung on your body, they did actually twist in a way that make you look sort of more sinewy than you thought. You were right? He was there. He was on social media. He was living his life fearlessly. And that's the kind of lesson to learn. Like, you have to be yourself 24 7, and then everything you touch should reflect you. And everyone who works for you should reflect that vision. And if you do that well, you know it'll work. And some people have it. I think Jonathan Anderson certainly has it. I think at Loewe, he grew a brand as well as his own brand that reflected his sense of art, his sense of humor, his sense of proportional cleverness and wit. I've never seen a J.W. anderson collection or Loewe collection that I felt was a compromise.

[Tom]

Yeah, that's so true.

[Shoma Nardi]

That doesn't mean that everything you do will sell, and it doesn't mean that you'll always get a good review. But at least you know who you are at the end of the day. I mean, Dolce and Gabbana know who they are. You know, when you think about the legacies, the people who know who they are, you know, Armani are the happiest. Speaking of legacies, Mr. Armani, God bless him. Yes. And that is it. That is it. And that is the icon. Like, I don't think creativity has to be compromised when you have to do more things. I think the steel bar that runs through you that says, I know who I am, has to just be preserved.

[Tom]

Exactly. No, I totally agree. I love it when things come back around and you want them again and this sort of desirability comes360. You spoke to Maya Singer for her profile on Jack and Laz, and obviously they're off to Loewe, and we're all looking forward to see what they do. And you said that some of the pieces that you've had that you still wear, are there designers whose clothes. And I know this is true because I see you often, and I know that you're very. You're very adept at integrating clothes from past and present. Who do you wear again and again? Which pieces in your wardrobe do you go back again and again to that you've worn, you know, since you wrote that piece?

[Shoma Nardi]

Oh, my God. Well, Jack and Lazzaro were a little bit after that. But I always, always wear their stripy T shirts and their corduroy pants from, like, their earliest collections. I still have them, and I still wear them. And those T shirts were ridiculously expensive. So I have amortized the cost of those T shirts. I think they were, like $385 for.

[Tom]

They had such a nice hand.

[Shoma Nardi]

Oh, they did. You had to. But I swear to God, I never go on a trip anywhere. Like, it can be, you know, like, to la, to Procida, to Paris without my. A couple of the T shirts from those early collections, I have, again, Rick Owens from his earliest collections when he. Before he came to New York, actually, and then he came to New York and did the show here from the very start. I have AF Van der Vos clothes. I have white shirts. You know, I love a white shirt from an early collection with the red cross on the Back, you know, very strict. They have one with like corset boning in the back. That's again, it gives you that very neat profile. I wear a lot of very old clothes. I do, I like. And then I wear, you know, my friend Marco Zanini's clothes often, you know, his incarnations from when he did Holston, from when he did Rochas. I wear Jerrol Lowu, obviously, a lot. He's a great friend. And from the first dress he ever really designed, when he sort of launched his collection properly outside of his store on Artesian Road. I wear things over the years because I don't think my style changes all that much actually. Really doesn't. Not at all. I even have a. Oh, my God. I have Josephus Timister skirts that I wear. I have two. One in a khaki and one in dark navy or a line. I wear them all the time. That's not because I'm some sort of sad person who keeps shopping their closet. It's because things that I love from people I love, I will wear to the ends. I wear so much from Albert, always.

[Tom]

Yes.

[Shoma Nardi]

And I never take a trip without wearing a friend of you. Yeah. I never take a trip without packing something from Albert. It's like a guardian angel type thing.

[Chloe Mao]

Hi, I'm Chloe Mao, head of editorial content at Vogue and host of Vogue's podcast, the run through. This week on the show, we are giving you a front row seat at Paris Fashion Week. We have four back to back episodes where we are sharing real time thoughts on designer debuts, behind the scenes interviews with front row stars, and editor reactions to some of our favorite collections, all straight from the streets of gay Paris. Tune in October, 2nd through the 6th for your exclusive look into all things Paris Fashion Week. You won't wanna miss it.

[Tom]

I think about the season we're going into. You know, I'm excited to see you in Paris. I'm excited to see the shows. What do you think we can expect? There are some names, as you said, who are familiar. You know, Pierpaolo at Balenciaga. I think that's a very anticipated show. It'll be a real shift for.

[Shoma Nardi]

I'm so excited for that show.

[Tom]

Tell me what.

[Shoma Nardi]

He's incredible.

[Tom]

What are you looking forward to seeing from him?

[Shoma Nardi]

Oh, my gosh. I just think Pierre Powell is really one of the few people working right now who really understand and it's not really relevant to this season, but it will be relevant going forward. They understand the haute couture who really know how to mix Techniques, color, proportions, everything in the service of making someone look original and beautiful in ways we hadn't really thought possible. Mr. Lacroix did that. Christian Lacroix did that. You'd go to his couture and you'd just be shocked by how exquisite something could be. Not because it was symmetrical, not because it was expected, not because anyone had thought of wearing prune and apricot together in quite that way, or why a bow would be on the back of the right side, but not the left side of the dress. But there was something astonishing in what he could create. And then the surprising visions of beauty that you could get from Lacroix. And I believe Pierre Paolo, at his best has that. He can make clothes that make a woman feel magnificent. Not beautiful, but magnificent. Like it's a swagger of a cape over a something. You haven't thought clothes could do that. And it's grown up when he does it. Well, it's so grown up, it's exactly the woman you sort of. It's like the contessa that you're not, but you'd like to be just like a big of that vibe. And he does that. And there is a customer out there, there's a woman who has money to spend on clothes, and they want clothes to deliver that. That kind of elegance that's. It's timely, it's for now, but it also. It nods to something that's like, I don't know, something print, you know, something that involves a sort of palazzo in Rome that you don't even have the key to until you find it from him. And if he can do that at Balenciaga, which just seems ex. It's exactly the house and the name where you want that, you know? Cause that was so Spanish to French to, you know, humpbacks and crazy shapes and like, hello. It's gonna be astonishing. I'm really excited for it. Not because I thought what Demna did was super cool and revolutionary and great and interesting for so many years, but a palate cleanse there will be. And then we'll get to see Demnat Gucci eventually and we'll see what he does there. I mean, he's visionary in a different way. I mean, he's changed the silhouette on so many things we took for granted. Like in a world that's increasingly fraught, hostile, troubled at loggerheads, terrifying in various ways, if you ask me. We need a vision of beauty that's beyond anything we need like, we need magnificence. Fashion can lead in this fashion that's when fashion leads, not as a balm, but as something that allows you to remember, oh, my God, there is art, there is beauty. There is. We can be incredible. We don't have to be brought down.

[Tom]

Yeah. I think we need those moments. I'm looking forward to feeling uplifted this Fashion Week. I really think we need it more than ever.

[Shoma Nardi]

We do.

[Tom]

There's just so much doom and gloom around us, and I think we need that reminder and that kind of levity and elegance. You're so right.

[Shoma Nardi]

Yeah. And it can't just be silly. It can't be funny. It's not a moment for kids. This is a moment for grownups. And I'm very pleased, actually. In this round of hirings in fashion, how many grownups were put in houses? How many people who really have a track record, who have worked hard, who do know how to dress, people who do think about how people dress on the streets and who then think how to change how people dress on the streets, how to elevate it even more, not elevated in terms of price, not elevated in terms of just bourgeois for bourgeois sake, that's like, whatevs. But to elevate it in terms of aspiration for who we can be and how we can look and how it's made and the care that's done with, and clothes that are worth everything that they should be worth, because they cost a lot, by the way. They should be worth a lot. Hello. So I don't think it's a silly moment. I think it has to be a serious moment. But they've put serious talents into so many of these houses.

[Tom]

Yeah. I definitely feel like. It doesn't feel like a moment where, like you said, it feels like a moment where we're going to see some people who really appreciate craft, who understand the world of fashion and really know how to sort of show us new things and surprise us.

[Shoma Nardi]

Right. I mean, even just going back to what you said about Jack and Lazaro from Proenza, how exciting that they're taking Loewe now. They didn't take the weve when they first started, and, you know, they've always been extraordinarily handsome and adorable and the toast of everything and gorgeous to look at. But they've run a company for a long time. They've dressed a lot of people, They've made interesting things in all different ways. And now they get to go to a house that's so identified with craft, and they get to work in Europe in that way. What an exciting moment. And how nice that it's happened now for them, now that they're not kids. Actually, it's much more exciting to see what they'll do there now that they have access to so many great ateliers and resources.

[Tom]

I mean, I would love to. I'm always curious to know your thoughts about fashion, social media, TikTok, because I worked under you in a moment when all those things were bubbling up. My team keeps on asking me about the Macarena and all those amazing projects that you spearheaded. Guys, if you don't know about the viral Macarena, you'll have to go and find it on YouTube. But that was Sally's brainchild. I remember when we were coming [e-mail] and you were hiring everyone and some of the people you hired who are now kind of like big video directors and totally influencing what we're seeing on social media. How was it then and how is it now? And what was interesting about kind of engaging with it at the start? Because I think it was a slow burn for fashion and social media.

[Shoma Nardi]

Well, at the start, I mean, it was really. When I came back to Vogue to creative, direct, digital, I just felt that if we had the ability to do things in motion and to do things in sound and to do things differently, then we had to translate Vogue in a very different way. And on every platform was a different proposition and every platform was evolving and it was just a wonderful laboratory. And I feel very grateful that all you guys were there and that Bar Diazionali and Gordon Von Steiner and Casper and the people I still work with at Art and Commerce were there to do all our crazy ideas. I always think in any moment you should make things that are right for the moment, but forward thinking, past the moment. And that every platform and every development offers new opportunities. And then you have to. Again, it's what I was saying before about that steel bar. You have to sort of know your taste and your point of view and then render it across everything if you can. And So, I mean, TikTok, I love vertical video, so for me that's heaven. I like the proportions of a vertical video. So when it's done well, it's brilliant. When it's not done well, it's whatever it is, it's entertainment, it's funny, it's banal, it's like whatever, but. But when it's done well, brilliant, you know, amazing. I always think that the things that work best on any platform, be it TikTok or Instagram, YouTube, are things that were made or in Print or in books or in museums are things that were made for the space and the platform that they were destined to be in. I don't think things translate across. I think there's one place where it really connects. An image or a video or a product really connects. And everything else is kind of a derivation. And you very rarely have something viral that was meant to be in one place but turned up in another where it's viral for the right reason. It might be viral because it's funny, because it looks odd in this place. And that's the oddness, is what makes it interesting. But I think content, as it's called, should be very specific. And when things are, it should be specific to the platform. But the intention, the ambition, the aspiration, the humor should come from a place that's deep and within you and within whoever the creator is.

[Tom]

It's so true. I mean, people are always. There's this ongoing. And I feel like, obviously we're in a moment where things are changing in the fashion magazine landscape. And everyone's always debating whether fashion magazines, what's the future for them? Where do you see things going? I mean, in your current capacity, you're working with many of the best image makers in the world. I'd love to know how they feel about it.

[Shoma Nardi]

I think that there is still a hunger for beautiful still imagery. Beautiful, beautiful pictures. I mean, the sort of things that will last a test of time, that people will remember, that they'll. People don't always remember things you make in motion, but they do remember legacy imagery, important imagery. And I think, you know, photographers who do that well are in more demand than ever to do that well for brands and sometimes. And the quiet and the. The kind of sense of being able to sit with something really matters there. And there is a customer, if we're gonna talk about fashion imagery and its uses and commercial objectives, that really wants a beautiful image that they sit with. They wanna dream about that image, they wanna be that person in that picture. And those people admire the images. You know, speaking people who are in art and commerce. Steven Meisel, who did the picture of the designers all those years ago. And it looks as relevant now as then, or Craig McDean or for beauty, Carline Jacobs, or, you know, we know those pictures and they matter. And they do go to museums and that's wonderful. But great video work that makes your head spin and all that is also important. And, you know, you just want to work with people who are singular, who do the best thing they can do in the best way possible. And fashion is just part of that. Fashion just decorates that world.

[Tom]

Thank you so much, Sal.

[Shoma Nardi]

Thank you, Tom.

[Tom]

So good to see you. Can't wait to see you.

[Shoma Nardi]

Mutual. See you soon in Paris. Bye. Bye.

[Chloe Mao]

The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Cariuki with help from Emily Elias. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast head of Global Audio Foreign.

[Tom]

Hi, it's Shoma Nardi. If you're not on the Vogue app yet, what the hell are you doing? You can follow along with me and other editors as we talk about everything happening in fashion. Think you're already a fashion expert? Well, find out how your Runway IQ stacks up against the Vogue community with an all new Runway genius leaderboard. So download the Vogue app today and you'll never miss a moment. From PRX.