What is 2025 Bringing to the Wellness and Beauty Space?

Summary

The Run-Through with Vogue: What is 2025 Bringing to the Wellness and Beauty Space?

Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Hosts and Guests

In this enlightening episode of The Run-Through with Vogue, hosts Chioma Nnadi, Head of British Vogue, and Chloe Mal, Editor of Vogue.com, delve deep into the evolving landscape of beauty and wellness for the year 2025. Joined by Vogue’s Global Beauty and Wellness Director, Jessica Diner, and Contributing Beauty Editor and Goth-in-Chief, Tish Weinstock, the conversation navigates through the latest trends, controversies, and future predictions in the industry.

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Vogue Winter Issue Highlights

The episode kicks off with a discussion about Vogue’s latest winter digital covers, which celebrate the harmonious union of sports and fashion.

• Chloe Mal shares her admiration for the covers featuring athletes like Angel Reese and Gabby Thomas, highlighting their impact both on and off the field. “[...] Angel Reese and Gabby Thomas both look fabulous on the covers,” she remarks [05:25].

• Chioma Nnadi echoes this sentiment, noting Gabby Thomas's stellar performance at the Olympics. “Yeah, she cleaned up at the Olympics. I remember seeing her run in Paris and it was just incredible,” she adds [05:11].

The duo praises contributor Maya Singer’s insightful writing on the synergy between sports and fashion, complemented by Norman Jean Roy’s stunning photography.

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Celebrity Engagements and Press Behaviors

Shifting focus to the entertainment world, the hosts discuss the recent engagement of Zendaya and Tom Holland.

• Chloe Mal candidly shares her support for the couple, mentioning, “I went through a period [...] I was served only Tom Holland and Zendaya videos. And then I was like, you know what? I'm in it for them. I've been converted” [06:43].

• The conversation touches on how such high-profile relationships influence public perception and media narratives.

The hosts also delve into quirky celebrity moments from awards seasons, such as Nicole Kidman's memorable National Board of Review Award acceptance with a cup of milk, sparking a humorous debate about the realities behind celebrity press appearances [07:22 – 08:17].

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Beauty Trends from 2024

1. Innovative Beauty Products

• Jessica Diner introduces the groundbreaking "road Lip tint case," a versatile product that doubles as a phone case, wallet, and lip tint holder. “[...] How has no one ever done this before?” she muses [11:05].

• The product not only serves functional purposes but also ignites conversations on social media, with memes and creative uses emerging organically [12:06].

2. Fragrance Renaissance

• The resurgence of runway fragrances is a significant trend, with major fashion houses like Fendi, Bottega, Balmain Beauty, and Louis Vuitton launching purposeful and high-quality scents [12:03 – 13:57].

• Jessica Diner highlights niche fragrances such as Kathleen Baird Murray’s "Catch Me if I Fall," inspired by her family in Burma, emphasizing their meaningful and personalized nature [13:56].

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Wellness Trends from 2024

1. Extreme Wellness Practices

• The conversation shifts to more invasive wellness treatments, including hyperbaric oxygen chambers and hydrogen therapy. Tish Weinstock shares her experiences, humorously describing the intimidating nature of these procedures [14:53 – 16:07].

• Jessica Diner discusses ozone insufflation, a treatment aimed at promoting gut health by destroying bad bacteria. Despite the initial discomfort, she praises its effectiveness in cell renewal and collagen boosting [15:36 – 16:43].

2. Balancing Extreme and Basic Wellness

• Both guests emphasize the importance of foundational wellness practices such as adequate sleep, balanced nutrition, and proper breathing. Jessica Diner states, “All of these things are things that we do. But we just take them for granted slightly” [17:05 – 17:32].

• Chamma Nnadi concurs, reinforcing that no amount of high-tech wellness can replace the basics: “No amount of like blowing bubbles up your butt is going to replace a good night's sleep” [17:57 – 18:04].

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Controversies: Ozempic and Body Diversity

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the widespread use of Ozempic and its implications on body diversity in the beauty and fashion industries.

• Chamma Nnadi raises concerns about Ozempic’s role in shifting runway standards towards thinner models, noting a backlash against body diversity [35:32].

• Jessica Diner acknowledges the duality of Ozempic’s usage: “It's very much something that's come up in our ideas meetings [...] there's people that have very valid reasons to be on it” [36:24 – 37:06].

The hosts debate the societal impact, questioning long-term effects and the ethical considerations of using such medications predominantly for aesthetic purposes rather than medical necessity [37:30 – 38:05].

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Skincare for Preteens

Addressing a rising concern, the hosts examine the trend of preteens engaging with advanced skincare products.

• Chamma Nnadi shares a personal anecdote about her 10-year-old niece experimenting with Drunk Elephant’s retinol, leading to skin issues [31:02 – 32:07].

• Jessica Diner advocates for education in skincare for teens, emphasizing gentle products tailored for younger skin. She highlights emerging brands like Indu Bubble Solid and Stripe that cater specifically to preteens’ needs [32:02 – 33:57].

The conversation underscores the influence of social media on young consumers and the responsibility of brands to create age-appropriate products [33:45 – 34:05].

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Future Predictions for 2025

1. Personalized and Prescriptive Wellness

• Jessica Diner forecasts a surge in personalized beauty and wellness solutions tailored to individual genetics and specific health profiles. “Whether it's skincare that's like specific for your skin type or your kind of personal genetical makeup [...] that’s what we're going to see booming,” she predicts [39:40 – 40:09].

2. Continued Emphasis on Female Health

• Moving beyond traditional topics like fertility and menopause, Tish Weinstock envisions a broader conversation surrounding female health. “Looking at female health outside of those two pillars and just looking at yourself as a woman [...] that's something that we're going to really see coming through” [40:13 – 40:58].

3. Mushroom-Based Products and Longevity Molecules

• The popularity of mushrooms in wellness products is set to continue, building on the trends of 2024. Additionally, advancements in longevity molecules like NAD infusions and peptides are expected to dominate, offering bespoke wellness solutions [40:13 – 38:52].

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Conclusion

As The Run-Through with Vogue wraps up, the hosts express their appreciation for the deep dive into the multifaceted world of beauty and wellness. The episode offers a comprehensive overview of current trends, highlights the importance of foundational wellness practices, and anticipates innovative, personalized solutions shaping the future of the industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Chloe Mal [11:05]: “How has no one ever done this before?”

• Jessica Diner [12:03]: “Runway fragrance isn’t a new category, but the ones that have come out this year felt really purposeful and meaningful.”

• Tish Weinstock [16:36]: “I wanna feel well on a deeper level.”

• Jessica Diner [39:47]: “Beauty and wellness trends we're going to see coming through the next year? I think the whole prescriptive element is really going to be big and booming.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Innovation in Beauty Products: The integration of functionality and aesthetics, exemplified by products like the road Lip tint case, is reshaping consumer expectations.

• Revival of Fragrances: Both mainstream and niche fragrances are gaining renewed interest, driven by their purposeful and personalized formulations.

• Rise of Extreme Wellness Practices: High-tech treatments are becoming more prevalent, though their accessibility remains a concern.

• Impact of Medications on Industry Standards: The use of drugs like Ozempic is influencing body diversity in fashion, sparking debates on ethical and societal implications.

• Youth in Skincare: Increased engagement of preteens with skincare products necessitates better education and age-appropriate offerings.

• Future of Personalized Wellness: The trend towards bespoke wellness solutions tailored to individual genetic and health profiles is set to dominate 2025.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with valuable insights into the dynamic intersection of beauty and wellness as we step into 2025.

Transcript

[Chloe Mal]

Chloe. I'm Chloe Mal.

[Chamma Nadi]

And I'm Chamma Nadi.

[Chloe Mal]

And we have some exciting news to share. We want to hear from you. Do you have a question that you've always wanted to ask a Vogue editor or a co host of the Run through?

[Chamma Nadi]

Maybe you want to know where to shop for good jeans?

[Chloe Mal]

Or a question I'm asked all the time is can you really borrow clothes from the Vogue closet? No.

[Chamma Nadi]

Or you would be good at this question about throwing a party and hosting a party. I think you're such a good host.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, well, thank you so much. Yeah. See, you can ask us anything. Please send an email to therunthroughoque.com and if we like your question, we just might answer it on the podcast in a few weeks.

[Chamma Nadi]

I don't know anything, but maybe.

[Chloe Mal]

Well, they can write anything. They just won't like it. It is the best when you treat yourself to a gift that is also a New year's resolution. In 2025, I wanted better bedding, so I went to Brooklinen for a fresh set. I know I can trust the quality of their products. After all, they've been awarded by experts like Good Housekeeping. Their sheets are tried and true with 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers, Shop award winners and fan faves in store or [e-mail] that's B R O O K L I N E N dot com. Get 15% off your first order today. Welcome to the Run through. I'm Chloe Mel.

[Chamma Nadi]

And I'm Choma Nadi.

[Chloe Mal]

We have a very fun episode today. Choma. We got you in the studio talking all things beauty and wellness. New year new you with or improved you with Vogue's global beauty and wellness director, Jessica Diner and Vogue contributing beauty editor slash goth in chief, Tish Weinstock. Do you always go to one another for your beauty and wellness tips?

[Chamma Nadi]

It's become a bit of an annual tradition, this wellness. Well, I guess it's the second time we're doing it and it's so much fun because, you know, I'm a secret wellness nerd. So all of the crazy things that I've been doing and that Tisha's been doing and that Jess has been doing, we sort of share and compare notes and it's quite funny. So lots to look forward to there. We get really candid, like, you know, it's bodily function time.

[Chloe Mal]

Choma sent me a question this morning. I think it's okay that mentioned this. I was like, absolutely.

[Chamma Nadi]

There is a certain Point I'm not going to cut, but I figured. Embrace it. Embrace it.

[Chloe Mal]

2025 is about radical truth, no matter what Mark Zuckerberg says. Yes.

[Chamma Nadi]

Be warned, Be warned.

[Chloe Mal]

But before we get to that, let's get into some headlines. Our Vogue winter issue digital covers are out. How sports and fashion fell in love. This was such a real labor of love that came from Anna herself. It was sort of inspired by the year of 2024. Really felt like this peak moment of sports and fashion aligning from the Olympics to the WNBA to tennis always feels fashiony at Vogue. And so there are two digital covers. I'm sorry, I just have to. I'm having a really hard time focusing today because of the Los Angeles wildfires.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, sorry.

[Chloe Mal]

All of our thoughts are with all of our friends in LA and the firefighters who've been doing an amazing job. And I think the city's done a great job evacuating everyone. But I keep getting sent a lot of videos. My mom's house is in the Palisades and probably isn't there anymore. We'll find out tomorrow or hopefully.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, Chloe, that's awful.

[Chloe Mal]

We are recording this on Wednesday afternoon and the fires are very much not contained and they're in fact spreading. So it's. I'm sure. I hope by tomorrow when this airs tomorrow morning there will be more information. But I have been having a hard time sort of focusing on other things today. But I really give a lot of credit to the fdla. And no, they're doing their best. But yes, the athletes covers are fantastic. Angel Reese, who shared her news with Vogue.com exclusively about joining the draft instead of continuing at college last spring. And now people were so obsessed with the New York Liberty this season. Obviously, my beloved Ellie the elephant. And Gabby Thomas was such a star from the Olympics. She is the incredibly elegant, gracious US Sprinter who won three gold medals.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah, she cleaned up at the Olympics. I remember seeing her run in Paris and it was just incredible. I'm a big fan of Angel Reese, too, and I thought she looked gorgeous.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, they both look fabulous on the covers. And Maya Singer, as ever, did a great job writing this. Sort of taking the pulse of the zeitgeist piece about fashion and sports. And Norman Jean Roy shot the images.

[Chamma Nadi]

Our wonderful friend Johanna Lavezzi starred her first Vogue cover.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, wow.

[Chamma Nadi]

She starred Gabby.

[Chloe Mal]

And then we had, obviously, the Golden Globes, which we covered. But thanks to the Golden Globes, we learned that Zendaya and Tom Holland are engaged with a east west marquise diamond yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

Jesse McCormack. Yeah.

[Chloe Mal]

Jessica McCormack. And people were.

[Chamma Nadi]

She didn't say it.

[Chloe Mal]

All the girlies.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mal]

Hannah actually is doing a piece today on all the ladies who have Jessica McCormack engagement rings.

[Chamma Nadi]

Are you surprised by the news?

[Chloe Mal]

Zendaya and Tom Holland.

[Jessica Diner]

I don't know.

[Chloe Mal]

I'm very into them as a couple. I went through a period. You know, when you, like, watch a couple of videos of someone on TikTok and then that's all you get, like, around. There is, like, a cute moment of them at some point or when they were lip syncing at something together. They were both, like, singing in the stand somewhere. And I watched, like, two of those videos, and for like a month, I was served only Tom Holland and Zendaya videos. And then I was like, you know what? I'm in it for them. I've been converted.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah, they're pretty adorable. And I kind of guess it's not surprised because Zendaya's been in London so much and, you know, to make that kind of commitment to someone, to basically move to London, I mean, she spends so much time there.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, no, I'm very into them, you know. Awards season continues.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, I watched Baby Girl and now I get the whole. Now I'm sort of, like, mad I wasn't there for Harris Dickinson because he is so. It's so funny. I've seen him in so many movies. Well, not so few. And he didn't really register. But I think when you style him as this, like, downtown, kind of like, intern fuckboy, somehow he is so hot.

[Chloe Mal]

I know. Hannah wrote a whole piece about Harris Dickinson's little gold chain is the new palmess.

[Chamma Nadi]

Gold chain was like, the costume designer nailed it. He's in Triangle of Sadness. He didn't really register to me there. Well, not in the same way, but, like, he is just. He's just such a. Like, he's that guy. It's incredible. I loved that film so much.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, no, very much. A talking point of this season. And speaking of the talking point of the season, if you have seen Baby Girl, you will know that when Nicole Kidman accepted her National Board of Review Award, she brought a full cup of milk with her on stage and sipped it, drank it down, which figures in the plot of the movie and started a very lively conversation during our standup meeting this morning about the length celebrities go to for their Oscar press doors.

[Chamma Nadi]

It's like, you think it was real milk or do you think it was oat milk or.

[Chloe Mal]

That's what Laird said. She Was like, what kind of milk? It's like an investigative report, and I.

[Chamma Nadi]

Don'T think I could drink a whole glass of, like, real milk.

[Chloe Mal]

I would. I think I would be ill, to be honest. But, yes, I mean, from that to, like, Timmy Chalamet doing. He did some show where he was, like, singing or something. Anyway, everyone's really doing their press tours. Adrien Brody shirtless Laster. Bradley Cooper wearing a New York Phil sweatshirt. People pull out all the stops. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Chamma Nadi]

Okay, so we'll be back in just a minute with my conversation with Tish Weinstock and Jess Diner.

[Chloe Mal]

Ready to add a touch of Vogue to your collection? Browse shop.vogue.com for exclusive merch, like, limited edition mugs. And here's a treat. Get an exclusive 15% discount with code Vogue Pod1 5 at checkout. Happy shopping.

[Chamma Nadi]

So to kick off 2025. I cannot believe we are in the year 2025. It is a real trip. I really wanted to get your. Your takes on beauty and wellness, so I'd love to start off with an introduction from each of you and also just to know what your favorite beauty product was that you tried last year.

[Jessica Diner]

Oh, my God. I mean, how long is a piece of string? I feel like. So. Hi, I'm Jess. I'm Vogue's global beauty and wellness director. Choma and I have been working together in London for the past year. I'm obsessed with beauty. I'm obsessed with wellness. I'm lucky enough that it's my job, but I really hoard products. I mean, if you come to my desk, you've seen my desk, you know, and I just showed Tish my desk.

[Tish Weinstock]

It's giving me anxiety, actually. I was like, oh, no, you said, was it Marie Kondo that year?

[Jessica Diner]

But obviously, some people file paper. We file products. So I think if I was to talk about my favorite product from 2024, it probably would be. So there's a couple of things. Sorry, it's really hard for me to narrow it down.

[Chamma Nadi]

No, it's okay. You can. Why don't you give us, like, a top three?

[Jessica Diner]

Top three, Perfect. So number one probably be. Would probably be the road Lip tint case. The road everybody went, which I feel like we. I mean, we both.

[Tish Weinstock]

Here's one she made.

[Jessica Diner]

Here's one I made.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, so you. That's a nice col. Never seen that color.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

So this is, like, for autumn, winter, plum, kind of a plum berry.

[Chamma Nadi]

Plumberry.

[Jessica Diner]

And I just think it's. So do you know what's so good.

[Chamma Nadi]

About this lip tint.

[Jessica Diner]

The thing is. So the product is great.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

It's like. And that would probably be like, an overarching theme which we've written about, is this kind of idea of, like, lip product textures. And it was kind of like the year of the lip oil. The lip tint, like, lipstick, obviously still stands, but, like, texture preferences, I think, have really come into play when it comes to lip products. So genuinely use the lip tint all the time. And then they came out with this case, and I'm like, but this is great. I don't even need a bag. I've got my phone, I've got my lip tin, I've got my wallet.

[Tish Weinstock]

The genius marketing.

[Jessica Diner]

And also, it's so simple. You're like, how has no one ever done this before?

[Chamma Nadi]

I know. Soon our keys will be a QR code anyway.

[Jessica Diner]

Exactly. And then this is all you need. But what I loved about it is obviously the physical product itself. But then the kind of conversation that it started, and you started to see everyone doing memes on TikTok about it. Like, people were, like, taping, like, face sprays to the back of their phone and, like, spritzing a.

[Chloe Mal]

Did you.

[Jessica Diner]

I don't know if you saw.

[Tish Weinstock]

I've seen people put some interesting things in there.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah. Like you were putting a joint in there.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, my God.

[Tish Weinstock]

I was wearing mine for. Do we call it wearing? I don't know. I was using mine for a bit. My phone was wearing mine for a bit. But, like, classic, chaotic, unhinged vibe from me. I didn't have the lip gloss in it, so I was just carrying this empty thing. And people were like, what is that?

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

And they were like, oh, is it a vibrator? Obviously, it was men asking me this and is it a vibrator?

[Chamma Nadi]

I'm like, what a conversation story.

[Tish Weinstock]

I was like, oh, you don't know anything about the female anatomy. Me, obviously, if you think that is a vibrator, like, where's the bit that goes in? Or, like, around. Anyway, it was a nightmare. It really exposed people for, like, they're not.

[Jessica Diner]

I love things like that. I love things that promote conversation. And when it kind of just came out, not a lot of people had it. Everywhere you went, people like, that's amazing. That's genius. So I just love things that are functional but also kind of, like, get you talking. So that would maybe be number one. And then it's also something that we wrote about was the return of, like, Runway fragrance. I feel like Runway fragrance Had such a moment. And big fashion houses really returning to fragrance in a way that feels really, like, natural and like in a one house approach. So Fendi, Bottega, Balmain Beauty, they all had, like really big launches in the fragrance category. Louis Vuitton came out with a stunning fragrance. They did with Pharrell. And I feel like obviously fashion fragrances aren't a new category, but the ones that have come out this year felt really purposeful and meaningful and actually really good. So there's one by Bauman called Carbon, and every time I wear it, the vert one, stunning, I mean, but they're convers again, their conversation starters. Every time I wear it, people like, what perfume are you wearing? And then on the flip side, like, niche fragrances still carry such weight and resonance. And Kathleen Baird Murray, who's another one of our contributing beauty editors, came out with this really stunning fragrance inspired by her family in Burma. And it's called Catch Me if I Fall. And that's probably such good news. I know.

[Tish Weinstock]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah. So that would probably be my third. So like a lip case and two perfumes are probably like my products of the year.

[Tish Weinstock]

I'm Tish. I am a contributing beauty editor at Vogue and the author of and the author of, obviously the author of how to be a Goth. And it's on undead style. But it's basically a celebration of that more macabre style. It's about beauty, it's about fashion, and it's about women who are unapologetically themselves. And my favorite beauty moments this year, there were less about products and more about treatments. For me, I think it was just about like trying to feel well and be well. So I've been doing quite a lot of different things. I've been lying sort of like in a coffin, which is very on brand in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, I've done that too.

[Tish Weinstock]

There's like the individual ones that you lie down there in. And then I went in with my husband the other day, so we were like couples that.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah, they have a hyperbaric together. Yeah, they have like a.

[Tish Weinstock]

Which is like a bubble.

[Chamma Nadi]

It almost looks like a sauna.

[Tish Weinstock]

Basically. I went in and did that. I breathe. I also did the hydrogen therapy and.

[Chamma Nadi]

I have the hydrogen water.

[Jessica Diner]

I feel like it freaks everyone out.

[Chamma Nadi]

Everyone thinks that it's when it's like bubbling away. I know.

[Jessica Diner]

I love it.

[Chamma Nadi]

It's like a. I don't know, like a soda stream or something.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, no, it's like a wellness thing.

[Jessica Diner]

I love it. It's so good.

[Tish Weinstock]

So I did this whole thing. The thing that I found most sort of like, out of my comfort zone was this thing called what have We? I couldn't say.

[Jessica Diner]

This was insulation. I. We had to write. Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

Insufflation.

[Jessica Diner]

So it's ozone insufflation.

[Chamma Nadi]

I think I have done it up your. Yeah, yeah, Both parts.

[Tish Weinstock]

I know I haven't had vaginal. I've had.

[Chamma Nadi]

I've had both.

[Tish Weinstock]

I've had.

[Jessica Diner]

So sorry, can we just unpack this? Because literally, we were, like, googling.

[Tish Weinstock]

Blowing air.

[Jessica Diner]

In advance. Yeah, in advance of doing this. And I've never done it. No, because, like, the idea of a. Even a colonic just is just not.

[Chamma Nadi]

But this. You don't feel a thing.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

Don't you?

[Chamma Nadi]

Apparently some people get bloated after.

[Tish Weinstock]

Oh, no, I don't feel bloated after. But you can feel, obviously, something is.

[Jessica Diner]

And is it promote gut health?

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, Sorry, to be technical. And. Yeah, to promote gut health and to sort of destroy the bad bacteria that's lining the gut that's basically causing bloating. It's problem with bowel movements.

[Chamma Nadi]

God.

[Tish Weinstock]

I'm really, like, lowering the tone of.

[Chamma Nadi]

No, no, no.

[Tish Weinstock]

Welcome to the ran.

[Chamma Nadi]

I think you're the only other person I know who's done insufflation.

[Tish Weinstock]

I can't believe this. Yeah, I was gonna.

[Jessica Diner]

I'm so intrigued.

[Tish Weinstock]

Anyway, I felt great afterwards of that day of extreme. Because I'm like, extreme wellness to combat the sort of extreme unwellness of daily life. And, like, you know, as much as we love our skincare and our makeup and everything, like, that's not gonna make me feel. Well, it might make me feel good in the moment, which I think I'm always here for. But, like, I wanna feel well on a deeper level.

[Chamma Nadi]

Me too.

[Jessica Diner]

And also, like, all of this is at disposal. And obviously there's barrier to entry that. It's all very expensive.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Chloe Mal]

It's.

[Tish Weinstock]

Ey. Watering.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah. But we had that piece in the recent issue which was basically talking about, like, how the 1% are. Well, and so it's how, you know, if you can afford it, you can do all these unbelievable wellness practices.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

But then all of the doctors that Hannah, who's our writer, all of the doctors that she spoke to were essentially, like, the stuff that keeps us well is all stuff you can do for free. It's like sleeping well.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

Sleep is eating well, eating the right things, breathing. But doing it properly. Yeah, but doing it properly. Like, all of these things are things that we do. But we just take them for granted slightly. So even, you know, talking about wellness trends, it's like that kind of. It's a pendulum swing because there's all of this insane, amazing high tech stuff, but then there's this wealth of stuff that's just available to everybody, but you just got to tap into.

[Chamma Nadi]

And that's actually the more important stuff.

[Jessica Diner]

Exactly.

[Chamma Nadi]

No amount of like blowing bubbles up your butt is going to replace a good night's sleep.

[Tish Weinstock]

He's also doji that at home.

[Jessica Diner]

Amen.

[Tish Weinstock]

Don't get a straw in.

[Jessica Diner]

No. I feel like this episode needs like a medical disclaimer.

[Tish Weinstock]

Thank you, medical professional that the goth says. All very sort of wizened to these ideals of perfection where beauty comes into it and we're sort of aware of those. But this idea of self optimization is also something that we've conflated with.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, tell me more. This sounds very like.

[Tish Weinstock]

Well, it's basically the optimized self is all about living our best selves in terms of healthy. Like a healthy, like holistically and like wellness and everything. But we can actually do quite unhealthy, you know, we can live quite an unhealthy life in order to reach that ideal and attain that ideal. Because how do you measure absolute optimal wellness? You can't. But it's about a feeling. And your feeling is influenced by so many more things, like your hormone level. Like if you're feeling completely deranged that day, you're like, I feel unwell. And yet the next day you might be completely fine. It's like your perception or you've had a bad day and someone was mean to you and you're like, oh, the world's ending. Like, what is optimal health? Like, what does that look like? And what it looks like to me might be very different. Like optimal health is one pilati session a week. For me, that's great.

[Jessica Diner]

For me this year it's been about optimizing my sleep. But my trade off is I can either sleep or I can exercise. So I could get up at like 5:30 or 6 and do a workout, but I want to bank my sleep. So that's my. It's like just. Just kind of like deciding what your trade off is and actually what you need to kind of get you over the line. Feel like a normal functioning human being. So for me it's like prioritizing sleep over exercise. But I want to get to the point that I can do a little bit of everything, but I'm just not there yet. With where I'm at with my kids and with work and just being I suppose, realistic actually of like little things that you can do in the everyday to feel just slightly less deranged.

[Chamma Nadi]

I think, I think sleep over, exercise every time. There's a very heat debates on social media about this.

[Jessica Diner]

Exactly, exactly. Because some people were like, well, you need to move and you need to exercise and that's the only way that you can then sleep better. But everyone's different, right?

[Chamma Nadi]

Speaking of debates on social media, what do you think were the beauty and wellness trends that dominated 2024? Anything that you're hoping kind of dies in 2024.

[Jessica Diner]

I mean, I always look to our analytics on our website to know like what the zeitgeist are feeling like past apparently turmeric shots. Well, this is it. I'm like, so for me 2024 was the year of the in and we just see like apple cider vinegar, magnesium, turmeric. Like there are these just one hit wonders that really fly and connect with people. And I think that's also really interesting. You know, when we look at the analytics of the site, like sometimes like month on month, the top three pieces are wellness related and they're always things that are like honing in and lasering on like a specific ingredient that people are talking about on TikTok or Instagram. But I think people really want to learn more about them. So I think I, I hope that continues because I feel like people are really wanting to educate themselves in this space and even if it's just like you're reading it and absorbing in the information, not necessarily having apple cider vinegar every morning, but just knowing that's something that maybe you want to do, I think that's not going to go away.

[Chamma Nadi]

Do you think it has something to do with the fact that like we're talking about making changes. Right. And realistic changes? For me, it's like the idea of doing one thing that I can add. Like ask me to add anything. Do not ask me to subtract.

[Jessica Diner]

So true.

[Chamma Nadi]

There are things I do not want it. Don't deprive me. If you want to add some things, we can do that.

[Tish Weinstock]

Easy steps.

[Jessica Diner]

100% apple cider vinegar in the morning. Turmeric in your food. Magnesium in your bath.

[Tish Weinstock]

Seed oil. Not seed oil. Black seed oil.

[Jessica Diner]

Yes.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

These are little things that anyone can.

[Tish Weinstock]

Do because I think it's not like the goop sort of vagina candle. I think people are like, no, this is. What are you talking about?

[Chamma Nadi]

Is that being left in 2024.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah. Is that 2024?

[Jessica Diner]

It might have even been 24. Wherever. Whenever. It can stay there.

[Tish Weinstock]

I think like unhinged wellness ideas and people are like, oh my God, it's like unrelatable. It's like, how's. Come on.

[Jessica Diner]

But I think also, I don't know, things that I would quite like to see left behind are the. All of these beauty trends related to food. So like the blueberry blush or the strawberry. Why does everything have to be related to food? I know I'd be quite happy to see the back of that.

[Tish Weinstock]

Well, we're sort of running out of nice food. Like, you know, you're not gonna be like, oh, the Parmahan glass or something.

[Chamma Nadi]

You know, the Parma.

[Jessica Diner]

It could be a thing. Maybe. Maybe now.

[Tish Weinstock]

Speaking of food related. I mean, it's not really food, but it's gotta. You can eat it. Salmon sperm.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, tell me more.

[Jessica Diner]

Polynucleotide.

[Tish Weinstock]

Where am I supposed to put the inject? In your face. You can have it in the dark. Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

You inject it in your face.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

To be honest, I've never like used filler, but I think something natural. I would totally.

[Tish Weinstock]

It's gonna replace the trend for filler and Botox because people don't want.

[Jessica Diner]

Not Botox, but filler.

[Tish Weinstock]

True.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

So what does it do? It just kind of.

[Tish Weinstock]

So basically it's lights kind of soft and so the salmon or trout.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

By the way. Jesus.

[Jessica Diner]

Salmon. Salmon seems more chic. I don't think I could do trash.

[Tish Weinstock]

Also, I keep calling it salmon's farm. And like all the medical practitioners are like, why do you call it that? Sounds so gross.

[Chamma Nadi]

But what is it actually?

[Jessica Diner]

So the technically term is polynucleotides or salmon DNA, but if you really want to get into the specifics.

[Chamma Nadi]

But is it just that? Are there any other ingredients?

[Jessica Diner]

It's basically from a sort of cell perspective. The most close thing that you get to like the human cell.

[Chloe Mal]

Wow.

[Jessica Diner]

So when you inject it into the skin, it's like causing all this amazing regeneration of the skin.

[Chamma Nadi]

Wow.

[Tish Weinstock]

So it's nothing to do with prp?

[Jessica Diner]

A bit similar, actually. Not. Not far off. And so, you know, even we were saying, like, you can inject it into your scalp in the same way you can with prp. It's just all about regeneration, but the results and the.

[Chamma Nadi]

How new is this? How have I heard of this?

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

Why am I not doing this?

[Jessica Diner]

I mean, we've written about it on the side.

[Chamma Nadi]

Sorry, my bad.

[Jessica Diner]

It's a 2024 thing. It's for it's recent.

[Tish Weinstock]

Okay, cool.

[Jessica Diner]

And I'd say if 2023 was, like, the year of profhilo, which is what people were injecting for, like, volume and glow.

[Chamma Nadi]

Right.

[Jessica Diner]

It's like. Which was almost like a pure hyaluronic face.

[Tish Weinstock]

It's not fake volume. Filler is sort of artificial volume. You've literally got something there creating sort of the chiaroscuro of the face. Write that down. But the salmon sperm is sort of like getting. It's not like a fishy bukkake all over your face. It's, like, injected in there, and it just stimulates cell renewal. Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

I mean, how noticeable? Either you tried it.

[Jessica Diner]

I'm, like, getting it tomorrow.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, my God. Tell me everything.

[Tish Weinstock]

I will. Okay, so I had it in my neck and that you. I had to, like, rew afterwards if. But then you just.

[Chamma Nadi]

Because you be a bit bruised.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, it's so you've got little, like.

[Chamma Nadi]

So you look like a little vampiric.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, kind of. I mean, the thing is that I'll be like, oh, like, don't look. And then I'll be like, look, I've had this, which is, like, very much like. Like my way of being. I'm like, oh, like, I'm not gonna.

[Jessica Diner]

Tell people you have, like, little puncture wounds. In a way.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah. But they're more mounds. And then you can have it. People get it under the eyes, which I haven't had.

[Chamma Nadi]

Right.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah. Boost collagen, boost cell renewal.

[Tish Weinstock]

It's basically, if you use serum topically, it's like, well, why not using it?

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, wow.

[Tish Weinstock]

Okay. But, you know, people are obviously nervous because it's an injectable, and it falls in the sort of same category as other things that you have injected in your face.

[Jessica Diner]

It's how all of these treatments are kind of, like, moving forwards in the sense that, like, filler and Botox will always be Botox, but filler was like a sort of unnatural compound that you were putting into your face. It would have to be dissolved if you didn't like it, and it would take a while for your body to process it. These all things that are kind of bioavailable and, like, semi natural. So your skin is more. Obviously, everyone is different, but your skin is more likely than not to accept it.

[Chamma Nadi]

Wow.

[Jessica Diner]

It's really cool. I'm a big fan.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

Big fan.

[Jessica Diner]

And I won't name any names, but there's lots of people in our office who have also had it. And if you see anyone who's, like, particularly Glowing or radiant, the chances are I've sent them to have salmon sperm treatment.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh, my God, I love it.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

Cool.

[Jessica Diner]

Just let me know if you want me to hook you up.

[Chamma Nadi]

I mean, this might.

[Tish Weinstock]

I might be breaking my injectable.

[Jessica Diner]

That's the thing. Because it's not a foreign compound.

[Chamma Nadi]

Something. Yeah, something natural I can handle.

[Jessica Diner]

Exactly.

[Chamma Nadi]

For me, I think I'm just. Just still part of that generation. That is a little bit, like, quite rightly so, though. I mean, Tish, I love the piece that you wrote about for your wedding and how that.

[Tish Weinstock]

That was a nightmare.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, let's talk protection drift.

[Tish Weinstock]

Let's talk about it.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah, let's call protection drift.

[Tish Weinstock]

I've written loads of pieces about, like, how to get ready for your wedding. So there's that. And I know sort of what you're meant to do and what you're not meant to do and what you're not meant to do is get any sort of, like, procedure very close to the.

[Chamma Nadi]

Day because things go wrong, right?

[Tish Weinstock]

There's swelling, there's bruising. Also, if you haven't done it before, that's. And suddenly you look a little bit different. That's not what you want either. But then I also am not immune to all these other ideals that we. And ideas about your wedding day wanting to look your best. And we're just bombarded with images of people looking great and stunning in Photoshop and filled. And there's all of these treatments available, like, at my fingertips as a beauty editor. So I was like, why not? Why not?

[Jessica Diner]

But this was. Wait, how close to the wedding?

[Tish Weinstock]

I can't remember now.

[Jessica Diner]

Was it like, two weeks before?

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, something, like, really sort of traumatic like that. And, like, it's also very me to do something that I know I shouldn't be doing. So I went to someone who I was very trusted, and I was like, put something on my list. And he was like, no. I was like, do it. And he was like, I'm not doing that. I was like, okay, fine, I'll show you. Which is, like, insane. Like, off I drop to some, like, back alleyway and be like, you know, hook me up, Tish. No, no. I went against everything I know. And I was like, enjoy me. I was like, when my husband peels back the veil on my wedding day, like, I don't want to look like myself, obviously. I'm making awkward chat in the chair while my lips were being numbed and then just taking pictures of the numbing cream and, like, the hair net that goes on and just Being like, lol. Anyway. And then I just. It was just really bad. But also, do you know what? You're not actually thinking about what you look like on that day.

[Chamma Nadi]

Right. You're just having a good time.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Tish Weinstock]

You're just having a good time anyway. And it's fine. And the thing is like, you can dissolve it, you can get rid of it.

[Chamma Nadi]

So did you do that?

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah. And it really hurts.

[Chamma Nadi]

It stings a little.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, it's painful.

[Chamma Nadi]

How long is that process?

[Tish Weinstock]

Also, I thought I was like about to lose my lips when I dissolved it because it stings.

[Jessica Diner]

I think it's always a sign of a good doctor, someone that says no.

[Chamma Nadi]

I think so too. I think you need a doctor.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, 100%. I think someone is like, no, that's not gonna work for you. You should listen and take boundaries. We want to doctor 100%.

[Chloe Mal]

I'm Nomi Frye. I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm Alex Schwartz. And we are Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. Guys, what do we do on the show every week? We look into the startling maw of our culture and try to figure something out. That's right. We take something that's going on in the culture now. Maybe it's a movie, maybe it's a book. Maybe it's just kind of a trend that we see floating in the ether and we expand it across culture as kind of a pattern or a template. We talked about the midlife crisis starting with a new book by Miranda July. But then we kind of ended up talking about Dante's Inferno. You know, we talked about Kate Middleton, her so called disappearance. And from that we moved into right wing conspiracy theories. Alex basically promised to explain to me why everybody likes the Beatles. You know, we've also noticed that advice is everywhere. Advice columns, advice giving. And we kind of want to look at why. Join us on Critics at Large from the New Yorker. New episodes drop every Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts. It is the best when you treat yourself to a gift that is also a New year's resolution in 2025. I wanted better bedding, so I went to Brooklinen for a fresh set. I know I can trust the quality of their products. After all, they've been awarded by experts like Good Housekeeping. Their sheets are tried and true with 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online at brooklinen.com that's B R O-K-L-I-N-E-N.com get 15% off your first order today.

[Chamma Nadi]

Well, Jess, speaking of boundaries. I think both speaking of, speaking of, I feel like one of the big kind of controversies and conversations in 2020 24, at least in the UK, was about preteens and older kids kind of experimenting with skincare. And I remember it kind of hit home for me because I was talking to one of my best friends and her daughters I think 10 and I was like, oh, what does she want for Christmas? And she was like drunken elephant or something.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

I'm like, she's 10.

[Jessica Diner]

I know.

[Chamma Nadi]

And like what is drunken elephant?

[Jessica Diner]

10 year olds do not need serums that are 60 pounds. I've got nieces who range from 13 to 22 and they're always like my barometer of beauty. So I'm often like what do you think of this? And what do you think of this? And often they'll come to my house and they'll have like rummage through the products. And my 13 year old niece took my drunk elephant retinol which is. Cause it's like pretty and it's not for kids. No, it was not a rot. I think it was an acid of some description.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh dear.

[Jessica Diner]

And I was like, no, no, you can't have that. That's not for you. She took it anyway.

[Tish Weinstock]

Classic.

[Jessica Diner]

Very cute. Classic. Because she loved it. She'd seen it on Instagram, it looked pretty. She had the most awful reaction. My sister in law was, was furious. Not with me. But just like Jess said, don't take it. Why did you still do it? But she's seen it on Instagram. Yeah. And she did learn the hard way. And also she's got like, I feel like she's probably like not irreversibly damaged but she's had a lot of flare ups since because I think her skin barrier just got so screwed up. Yeah. That it's taken time. So then I, I almost gave her like a prescription of like how to build her skin barrier back up with like lots of very gentle like calming ceramide products. But I just, it was just so indicative of like what's going on now. And I, I think we spoke about it on the POD before but I just feel like education about skincare for teens almost should be as ingrained as brushing your teeth.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

So it's like really basic but as soon as you kind of get to the age that you're like a bit sweaty, you know you're going to start wearing deodorant, start washing your face, use a very gentle Moisturizer, but it does not need to be like a crazy serum that looks cute on Instagram, just like, very gentle. And so we've written a few pieces about it both in print and online, speaking to, like, various experts. But there's some really cute brands that have come out of all of this, which have basically been created by mums who've had these exact issues with their. With their kids. And they're literally for preteens. There's brands like Indu Bubble Solid and Stripe, I think is the name of the other one. And I feel like those are the brands that you want to go to. And, you know, Drunk Elephant's an incredible brand, but they're not. They're not for preteens.

[Tish Weinstock]

And they don't smart. They don't say that they are either.

[Jessica Diner]

No, they don't. Proportion. Social media has created this environment. The brands aren't creating it. It's social media.

[Chamma Nadi]

Well, also, I know we've talked about this before. NAD plus infusions discuss.

[Jessica Diner]

Well, I think it's so talking about trends. It's one of these ones in the wellness world. Everyone's talking about NAD, right? You can have infusions, IVs, you can have supplements in skincare.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

So it's one of these.

[Chamma Nadi]

It's a longevity.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, it's a longevity molecule of a better word that people have really latched onto. And there's, you know, shameless plug here. But there's a great piece in the current issue that is going both across US and UK Vogue that the writer Mattie Khan has written. And it's really good. And it's exactly the kind of piece that we like Choma, because it really del into, like, both sides of the coin. Like, yes, nad is amazing for some people, but actually there's some people that shouldn't be taking it. So, like anything, don't jump on the bandwagon of a wellness trend, like, speak to a medical professional to see if it's what you need. But I loved her piece because it wasn't just drinking the snake oil. It was like asking all the right questions. Because NAD is amazing if you've got certain predispositions to some conditions, but then not if, you know, for other things. So I don't know. I just feel like it's a really good piece. Everyone should go read it. Yeah, it is a really good piece, but it's one of those kind of wellness crazy trends that actually you need to be a bit cautious about.

[Chamma Nadi]

I think we couldn't get through this review. Of 2024 without talking about another controversial wellness. I mean, I don't even call it a wellness trend. I think we can safely say that it was a year that Ozempic really, like, took over.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, yes.

[Chamma Nadi]

And I mean, I don't know. I think it will have bigger implications for society at large just because I think it's become so much part of the conversation, given. Given the obesity rates and given the fact that people who. Who really need the drug are not necessarily getting the drug because it's being used by people who do not need to take Ozempic. What have the discussions been around in the beauty space? Because in the fashion space, I really do think it has. We've seen this big trend towards a much, much smaller, sort of thinner model on the runways. And body diversity, I think, has been backsliding for several reasons. I do think Ozempic is part of it in the beauty space. Like, what is the conversation around it?

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, I mean, it's very much the same. It's like everybody's on it. And it's actually something that's come up in our ideas meetings with the teams here and in the US how it's kind of become part of our kind of everyday vernacular. You know, you could go out for dinner with a friend and be like, yeah, I actually can't eat today because I just upped my Ozempic. Or like, people will talk about it so freely, almost like there's no taboo.

[Chamma Nadi]

Right. It quickly lost the taboo.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it didn't take long, which.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, yeah. Someone asked me the other day, they're like, oh, you wanna. I was like, no way. There'll be nothing left to me.

[Chloe Mal]

Why would I do that?

[Chamma Nadi]

You would be.

[Tish Weinstock]

Why would you ask me that? Like, are you insane? But I was like, oh, no.

[Jessica Diner]

But then on the flip side, you know, there are people that, like, very. Have very valid reasons to be on it. I saw someone in our industry recently and he was just saying he had health problems and he had to go on it. And since being on it just for a year, his cholesterol is down, his heart flutters have gone. You know, he's lost weight. And I just. I feel like that's. That's the kind of person that should be on it. I mean, there's the value of it.

[Chamma Nadi]

Yeah. I think if we think about health and wellness with this, like, one. One kind of quick fix attitude, I just don't think in the long run that it's good for us.

[Tish Weinstock]

We all want that, though. Like, quick fix Like I, someone's been talking about like peptides that you inject and like it's apparently huge in America.

[Chamma Nadi]

Oh really?

[Tish Weinstock]

It's obviously again like an eye wateringly expensive treatment where you get like a bespoke blend of peptides and you inject it yourself. I honestly don't know enough about it because people have been quite weird and gatekeeping and I just keep hearing it like, oh yeah, the peptides. I'm like, what peptides?

[Jessica Diner]

I went to something recently which I remember I came back to the office afterwards and I said to you like, oh my gosh, this was so incredible. And it was, it was arranged by Estee Lauder who have this kind of longevity committee and it's all experts from like Cornell and Stanford. And they came London and they did this almost like longevity panel talk. And this idea of like bespoke personalized wellness is essentially going to be like booming in the years to come. And what they were saying is like, we are very much like in the throes of a wellness revolution in terms of like how we were able to not just live longer but better because obviously your health span needs to equate to your lifespan for you to live longer. But well, because you can't. We can't all be living to 150. But we're not in like good condition.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah.

[Jessica Diner]

But the things that are going to be available to us or that are available to us now in this kind of like bespoke way is essentially going to be the future of wellness and wellbeing. But there was this crazy stat that they were, they were, there were some studies that have basically said that 50% of the 5 year olds today will live to 100, which is also, I'm like, so as their parents, how are we funding this lifespan? What age are we retiring if we're living to 100? Like when do we get to stop? And how birth rates are lower but we're living longer. And then I'm just interested what that means. Like as a society, how is everything shifting? So many things. There's so much to unpack and there also so much that has to change because of this wellness revolution.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

Before we wrap up, what do you think are the biggest beauty and wellness predictions for 2025? What do you predict in terms of.

[Jessica Diner]

Beauty and wellness trends we're going to see coming through the next year? I think the whole prescriptive element is really going to be big and booming. So whether it's skincare that's like specific for your skin type or your kind of personal genetical makeup or wellness infusions, supplements that are prescribed for your blood type or your literal composition of your body. That's what we're going to see booming.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah, I think definitely agree. A lot more mushroom stuff.

[Jessica Diner]

Yeah, mushrooms are big. I'd say 2024 was a big mushroom year.

[Tish Weinstock]

It was shrooms.

[Jessica Diner]

One thing I wanted to say that I feel quite passionately about, which we were talking about before is, is like a real focus on female health. And I feel like the interest in female health is really growing. There's almost like a bit of a movement about it and looking at female health, but not in the perspective of fertility and menopause, which have been probably the main conversations that have been growing over the past, like, couple years. But going forward, just talking about female health outside of those two pillars and just looking at yourself as a woman and how to make yourself, well, specific to your makeup, I think that's something that we're going to really see coming through because it's more of a conversation point now.

[Tish Weinstock]

Yeah.

[Chamma Nadi]

Thank you so much, guys. It was such a pleasure. You know, I love to go deep on these things and I learned so much from you guys.

[Jessica Diner]

I feel like this could have been a three hour podcast.

[Tish Weinstock]

Oh, my God.

[Chamma Nadi]

For sure. I was like.

[Chloe Mal]

All right, that's it for the show. See you next week. The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis, Pran Bondi and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global Audio.

[Tish Weinstock]

From prx.