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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Arden Fanning Andrews, Vogue's beauty editor at large. Ebay is one of the places where it ends up factoring so much into my fashion month because it lets me find pieces that I know aren't just pushed on me because it's a trend that's happening at the moment. There's an element of discovery with ebay where I'll find something new that excites me.
- [00:25]
B
This is the run through. I'm Nicole phelps. It's our 10 year anniversary here at Vogue Runway. And looking Back to that August 2015 time, we were talking about the 1990s. Sarah Mower wrote about the enduring influence of Helmut Lang. Lynn Yeager penned an ode to grunge. And I interviewed Camilla Nickerson, who is the stylist on the very influential music video Freedom 90 by George Michael. And it struck me that we are still Talking about the 90s 10 years later, which is why I brought Luke Leach and Mark Holgate, my colleagues at Vogue, onto the podcast today to discuss the phenomenon. Why can't we get over the 90s? Mark Holgate and Luke Leach. My first question is, why do the 90s remain trendy?
- [01:19]
C
I mean, for me, I think it's two things. I think in part, it feels like the last decade where fashion was innocence, the wrong word, but it's the kind of one I'm going to use. But I think we were pre conglomerate, pre mega brand, pre globalization, pre just the vastness of the industry now. The 90s, it was just kind of in some ways smaller, a little bit more kind of eclectic and individualistic in some ways. I think. I mean, I started working in the 90s in the industry in the mid-90s, and it just felt like it was a kind of smaller kind of time. And I think probably people look back and they see the beginnings of some celebrities coming into fashion, but it was still very much an era of the models. I think we also saw designers really being super kind of creative in this very individualistic, kind of free way. I mean, it wasn't about marketing, it wasn't about strategy based on instinct and personality. And whether that's true or not. But I think people see or perceive there to be a kind of freedom in that decade. And I think it was also the last decade, really, where there was no social media, there was no real Internet, there was no real websites around fashion. I mean, I started looking at First View, which was the kind of Runway service that I started using in 2000, and I literally was looking at it on dial up on the modem. It took nine hours for one Runway show to download, which, when you can, compared to the speed of Vogue, Runway now was kind of incredible. It's like what, you know, nine seconds. And it just felt like a smaller, more closed kind of world. And one, I think people look back with a certain kind of fondness or nostalgia or longing to kind of go back to. And that's just my take. So sorry, rather long winded take.
- [03:16]
B
Luke, do you have a take?
- [03:18]
D
Well, I want to have a take on Mark's take because I completely see through what he's been saying. That in a way, a lot of what we experience as modern contemporary fashion was in a way formed in the 90s, established in the 90s. So it was at the end of that decade that, you know, the. The conglomerates started to form in a serious way that Gucci found its power and then became this center of gravity around which the other houses in that group coalesced. At the end of the 90s and the early 2000s and LVMH had already started to form, but before then it had been really an industry of independence. Who now, some of them, the ones that predate, mostly predate around 1995, have grown into huge multi billion companies in themselves. So I think that we maybe go back to the 90s in fashion often simply because in a way, we're slightly repeating ourselves. And that was kind of those were like the teenage years of modern fashion. And maybe modern fashion is itself in a form of middle age and having a midlife crisis at the moment, but that's maybe for another podcast, but I think that's one of many reasons. I think there are broader cultural reasons as well. And I think a key one Mark also dam him touched upon, which is that I think there's a broader nostalgia for this moment that was the last moment that has the mystery of not being digital. There was the Celine show by Hedy slimane spring summer 2020, where he partnered with the artist David Kramer, who I think is a New Yorker. And he had these brilliant artworks that I really loved in the show. And one of them said, I have nostalgia for something I probably cannot remember on it. And I think this feeling of having almost having missed out on a slightly more almost an innocent age, but in fashion wise before it was conglomeratorized and institutionalized, and more broadly, when kind of we were unobserved, it changed the way we live. And I think there's maybe an unconscious nostalgia for all of that.
- [05:36]
B
I have a very strong nostalgia for It, I think partly because like both of you, I came up in that, in that moment, it was my first taste of fashion in person. You know, crashing a Marc Jacobs show, being there in person, I. I felt like I had found my place in the world. And the sample sales, I've brought this up on the podcast before the sample sales at the News, where you could buy your Martin Margiela sweaters for $75 and Helmut Lange pants for, you know, less than $100. They set some sort of template in me, the architectural proof that this is what looks good to me. And 25 years later, almost 30 years later, it still is the foundation. And I judge everything sort of on what I Learned in the 90s.
- [06:33]
C
I mean, it's true. I mean, the 90s, there were so many, to your point, Luke, I mean, kind of independence. And then also to your point, Nicole, these strong independent voices came out. You know, these strong creative voice, from Helmut to Margiela, Miuccia, Prada, Tom ford at Gucci, McQueen, Galliano, Hussein Shalin. I mean, Marc Jacobs. There was just this long line of names of people that had really had something to say and said it in such a kind of emphatic and empowering and kind of interesting way in that decade.
- [07:04]
B
When you think of 90s fashion, what are we talking about when we say 90s fashion?
- [07:10]
D
For me, I have to make a terrible confession. I didn't crash any shows in the 90s. I wasn't a fashion kid. I didn't start working in the industry really until the end of the 2000s.
- [07:22]
B
You're an Aravist.
- [07:24]
D
I'm an Araviste. I'm a mid career divergent from other things. So I experienced it as a. Just as a normal guy. But in London at that time, where I was living, there was a deep sense of integration that I saw, you know, reading British titles like ID and the Face and Sky and even music magazines like mixmag, many other titles, Melody Maker. Fashion was. Whether they were about culture more broadly or about music, fashion was always a part of the conversation. So whether it was talking about Patrick Cox's wannabe shoes in the context of certain subcultures, or it was talking about casual style, Brit pop style, I think that aesthetic was a really formative influence in terms of a strong visual aesthetic that came out of a fashion context and then went across the culture in the uk, I didn't feel that fashion was kind of in its own citadel. It just felt like part of a broader scene to me. And maybe that was what made it so relevant.
- [08:35]
C
I'd started working at British Vogue and had done some internships and things from kind of the middish, lateish 90s on. So I guess for me, and I think also depends what city you are in. Right. So I think you probably had a very different view of the 90s if you were here in New York, perhaps, versus how you. If you were in London or some other part of the world. But for me, it kind of boiled down to, on the one hand, there was the kind of eclecticism and this kind of boho, vintagey kind of vibe that was exemplified by people going to Portobello Market. It was also, I think, John Galliano. I think it was people like my former colleague Lucinda Chambers. Marnie. There was this kind of romanticism and slightly kind of frayed bohemian voyage kind of thing going on in London and this very eclectic thing. And then on the other hand, the thing I was probably more interested in was the slightly more kind of minimal, harder edged, very clean lines of someone like Helmut Lang, who worshipped. Continue to worship still a morning that he's not, you know, around designing anymore. And that was really exciting to me. The mix of sportswear, tailoring, it was the beginning of the 90s, really was the beginning of sneaker culture as well. Like, I mean, it'd probably been around a little bit before that too, but I remember everyone. I mean, I can't seem to remember picking up a copy of ID that wasn't kind of talking about sneakers in the kind of early mid-90s on also this kind of interest in kind of technology and things like nylon that you obviously saw with people like, say, Miuccia Prada as well. So that's kind of how I think about it. And quite a kind of. How can I put it? There was a kind of utilitarian kind of thing kind of going on as well. A lot of the kind of idea of the deification of denim, you know, with APC and then Helmut Lang, too. So it was an interesting mix of this more casual thing kind of going on, the bohemian, romantic thing. And then, as I say, this much more conceptual idea of fashion from people like Helmut and Miuccia.
- [10:33]
B
As I was preparing for this podcast, I was doing some research and discovered that Helmut Lang has now been out of fashion. He left his brand in 05 for as long as he was in fashion.
- [10:44]
C
Oh, God.
- [10:45]
B
So he had his brand for about 20 years, and now he's been out of fashion for 20 years.
- [10:50]
C
And someone's gonna have to hand me some handkerchiefs or something.
- [10:55]
B
Me too, or his phone number. We need to try to get him on this podcast or on the record to talk about his lasting influence.
- [11:03]
C
I mean, I have to say I've not seen how many times since he left, but I would say the last time I saw him, which was a few years ago, he is distinctly uninterested in nostalgia around the 90s, so maybe that's a better thing. Maybe he lived it and exemplified it and won the 90s, and maybe he just. I don't think he's got any interest in looking back, but.
- [11:23]
B
Well, maybe he just spends a lot of time off the Internet. I think if you spend a lot of time on the Internet, you do develop this sort of permanent nostalgia. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.
- [11:50]
A
Whenever I'm looking for things with ebay authenticity guarantee, it often ends up being sneakers. I'm not necessarily sneakerhead, but there are specific sneakers that I may have like fallen in love with and have been discontinued. And it's really nice to find them on ebay. And so it'll be just like a pair of platform Converse loafers. It will be a pair of vans, white slippers with like a very specific low toe. And so it's great with ebay to just be like, this is a real thing. It's in the size that you want, it's in the style that you want, and it's real.
- [12:21]
B
Another thing that I went back to as I was preparing this is this Kurt Anderson essay that was printed in 2011 in Vanity Fair. And he talks about how the Internet has given us instant universal access to every old image and recorded sound and, and the future is here and it's all about dreaming of the past. And I feel like fashion is a little bit in really living through that. And we were always talking about change, change, change. And something has happened in the last 10 years where we talk more about codes and DNA now. And you know, I thought to that really pivotal year in this whole phenomenon of, you know, the 90s are still here, which was 2018 and Donna Tell was honoring the death, the 20 year anniversary of Gianni Versace's death. And she did a Re Edition collection. And it was the very same year, just coincidentally, that Marc Jacobs did a 25 year anniversary re edition of grunge. And these two fashion giants making re editions, sort of, you know, the lingua franca of the moment, I think has even furthered this phenomenon where we are permanently not in the past, but sort of aware of the past, negotiating the past.
- [13:53]
C
Well, it's hard for me to say because of my age. And I lived a pre digital life. When I worked at British Vogue, we had two computers where you could actually look at the Internet. I remember trying to watch with about nine people crowded round a computer screen trying to watch Helmut Lang's show that was broadcast on the Internet. People younger than myself, which a lot of people, they just see history very differently. There's a kind of flattening out and a kind of it's all times, all eras all at once. Right. So maybe the 1880s can feel as present and as far away as the 1980s. I think for anyone that hasn't had a kind of pre digital existence, yesterday just feels like a century ago. And it's a very, very different way of thinking. Everyone talks about being a brand now. I mean, you know, you and I do the Fashion Fund and young designers talk about being brands and they think about the DNA, that phrase that I hate. And I mean, when I was growing up, no one really talked about that. McQueen wasn't talking about it. Hussein Shalain wasn't talking about it. They weren't thinking of themselves as brands. I mean, it's just a very, very different thing.
- [14:58]
B
Luke, you have kids. How do they think of the past or the fashion past? Are they interested in it at all?
- [15:07]
D
One of them is really interested in it. He's just been in Japan and going into undercover stores and checking out com and also checking out a lot of labels that I've never heard of. Because actually, part of this conversation, I think, is really framed by the frame of reference of the three people having it. So because we, you know, we were there, we get. We can do the whole I was there thing. I think there are a lot of things that happen contemporaneously now that we just don't have the vision, we don't have the ability to see because we're not part of that generation. So I think there's a big caveat with this whole conversation, which is there is sure a lot of stuff going on now. And it's not as if fashion is stuck in a stasis, but it is for sure that fashion does keep parts of fashion keep referring back to the 90s. The thing that will always happen, which is you form your identity through shared points of reference with your contemporaries and peers. So absolutely, they build obsessions and interests about new designers. And there are several that we review on Vogue Runway that, you know, my kids are much more interested in than perhaps necessarily we might see sometimes when we do the top 10 because they're a little bit more niche and a little bit more interesting for smaller group of people. And I think people are still looking for nicheness. There are so many huge brands with huge marketing potential that can force themselves through sheer commercial heft into the algorithm of what you see. You know, this is another thing about the 90s and the pre Internet is that there were all of these tribes, different culture, different subcultural tribes, and they would develop their own fashion taste. And I think often now you think with the Internet that that doesn't happen anymore, but I think it really does. I think people just kind of gatekeep it quite a lot to try and keep things to themselves.
- [16:55]
B
Perhaps this is a narcissistic exercise because going back to 2015, when Sarah Moore wrote about the enduring influence of Helmut Lang, she made this point, this mathematical point, and it touches on what you were just saying, Luke, she asked, why are we seeing 90s references? And all you do is you take the date 2015 and subtract 25, the age of today's rising designers, and result, you're in 1990. And so if we did that today, we would see that, you know, it's 20, it's what is 2,000. Yes. Y2K. The birth of indie sleaze. And of course, the kids downstairs or upstairs, excuse me, on 25, are talking all about indie sleaze. And I'm. I don't want to talk about indie sleaze. That wasn't my moment. And I find it even hard to pick up the references that they see. So obviously, because that was when they were coming up and coming of age. And to me, I had already, you know, I was already serious and, you know, head down doing my work and experience fashion in a different way. You know, time is flat and stretchy.
- [18:06]
C
Yes. And you just, you don't necessarily know what people are going to kind of look back and be nostalgic for, you know, especially if you were living through it, you know, some you do have, because your vantage point is always going to be informed by your lived experience and what you saw and what you like back then. And indie sleaze was not something, you know, I was really too old for it by that point.
- [18:28]
B
Me too.
- [18:29]
D
I mean, I saw a lot of it happen because I live up the road from Camden Town and I mean, it was really funny to see, but in itself it was like a throwback to early 90s band culture as well. But it was just. It became a lot more coalesced. And then there were the Strokes and It felt like it was a more somehow more modern form of kind of the. Basically the rock and roll tradition, you know, to your point, Nicole, about sort of not. Not relating to what the kids on 25 are talking about, sometimes I think we're all like that. I've got this very cheesy point that I use often, which is that, you know, the newest thing in fashion is always the people who are interested in it. So generations come up and they go, you know, so there will always be an audience, in a way, for the most enduring fashion stories. Like, what's so fascinating is that it's as the context of the moment and the people come through that happen to be born in that moment of time. You get all of these multiple ingredients, and that just leads to a formula for what creates whatever is modern. So modernity depends on the nature of society, the nature of broader taste, and the way they collide at a particular moment in time.
- [19:41]
B
Well, let's get concrete. What are your favorite Memories of the 90s in fashion? Mark Holgate.
- [19:50]
C
I think probably a few things. Starting in the summer of 93, interning at British Vogue. My first morning, going up in the elevator to the fifth floor of Vogue house in Hanover Square in London, sharing the elevator with Isabella Blow, who is still working at British Vogue at that point. Who.
- [20:05]
B
The subject of a new biopic?
- [20:07]
C
Yes. I don't think this scene is gonna feature. I'd be very disappointed if it's not. But she proceeded to strip off in the elevator, and I had to help zip up her dress. And that happened between the ground floor and the fifth floor of Vogue. So that was a real moment. Seeing my first McQueen show, the Birds show, in the Bagley Warehouse in King's Cross. It was incredible. I mean, I saw Mr. Pearl, the corsetiere, walk the Runway in a pencil skirt and probably like a 17 inch waist. And then literally six months later was on the London Underground, and he got on this underground train in a little raincoat and suit. And all I kept thinking was, are you wearing a corset under all of that? Seeing the Hussein show with the furniture, the clothes that. Well, furniture turned into clothes. Sadler's Wells was amazing. I mean, it was really a time of kind of, I don't know, like experimentation and transgressiveness and excitement. I think it just had a kind of. London was super raw and super exciting. I mean, it hadn't really started to gentrify in the way it would post Tony Blair's first government in 90. What was it? 97. I think it was really a kind of much raw kind of city and a smaller city in a way, but those are the things that live on in my mind.
- [21:25]
D
I don't have as many fashion specific memories, but you just mentioning Blair makes me think about the fact that the 90s had the added bonus that it was a golden age in terms of the world more broadly and geopolitically. It was between glasnost in 89 and 9 11, at the beginning of the millennium. And yes, there was the Gulf War and there were many huge events that happened, many wonderful events and many terrible events that happened in the 90s. And maybe I remember it wrong and maybe you guys will disagree, but I don't think there was an overwhelming sense of global anxiety to the extent that there possibly was not long after the turn of the millennium. In fact, the biggest point of anxiety was the millennium itself. For many years we all thought the world was going to end because there was a date change. Yeah. I think that created a context and also a rejection of the 80s and a form of. So there was a sense of freedom, there was a sense of potential. And also there was a rejection of these very baroque elements. Very kind of dynasty hair, big shoulders, Greed is Good and all of that. All of those 80s tropes, people wanted to put them away. And it was very interesting this, this much cleaner, very Helmut Lange sense that came through. So I just think it was a very dynamic decade. And it really often, I think I didn't appreciate it when I was living it, to be honest.
- [22:51]
B
No, ditto.
- [22:52]
C
You don't miss it till it's gone.
- [22:54]
D
No, you really don't. But in terms of fashion memories, I think it's just having that sense that, you know, I would go into Browns on South Moulton Street. I, you know, remember being quite obsessed with Westwood, but that was almost as a result of punk. So it felt like it was a pre-90s thing to me because I'd been aware of her even as a very early teen in London in the late 80s, you know, living in Camden, Small shops, micro trends, sneakers, jeans with a. With a 90s flare. I will never forget, you know, that 90s flair that never is one of the things that I keep seeing coming back over and over again. And I always have this debate when I'm looking at a show like, is that a 70s flare or a 90s flare? And the difference is huge in terms of what the designer is really signifying and, and signaling. And at the beginning of, you know, really me working in fashion, which Was not that long ago, like 2010 or so. It was all about the 70s. So, you know, I'd see a different 70s references, because in that decade, people like Versace and Cavalli or it's, you know, Italianate fashion, there was a lot of. And in menswear, there was a lot of 70s references. And I think the 90s have really kind of ossified itself as. As the defining decade of our time in terms of nostalgia.
- [24:10]
B
Speaking of 90s flares, they were a good moment for women designers in New York. I was a young New Yorker and spending my money on Darrell K. Low rise pants and Cadille Adeli Cadion Adeli pants.
- [24:28]
C
Yes.
- [24:28]
B
And, you know, I guess maybe it goes to what you were saying, Luke, that it was a moment of independence before the conglomerates defined the way the fashion system works. And so young emerging designers could really get a foothold and really define the look of a city.
- [24:51]
C
I think it's interesting. New York in the 90s is something that, probably because of Larry Clark and Clarie Savonay's arrival and Cationa Delli, Daryl Kay, I mean, I can certainly tell you in the offices of British Vogue in the later 90s, I mean, these designers were of much interest. Marc Jacobs, too, who was, you know, people are obsessed with. I was obsessed with, you know, you couldn't find the clothes, except I think in one boutique in Knightsbridge called A La Mode, and that was it. They had like three sweaters and maybe a coat. But, you know, there was a kind of deep fascination with him. And then also the success of Donna Karan and dkny. I mean, that just felt like such a cool urban vision of New York. So, you know, even though we were in London, we had a lot going on. I would say there was a lot of looking to New York, to things like Milk Fed to Sofia Coppola and then also Carolyn Bessette Kennedy in this very clean, streamlined, super chic mix of Calvin, Yoji Yamamoto, blonde hair, you know, red lip, flat shoes, jeans. I mean, this kind of. It was like a complete distillation of kind of 90s, late 90s style that I think everyone was obsessed with. Wherever you were, but particularly, I will say, in London, that was a. A reference point.
- [26:12]
B
I think we're really onto something. The 90s are a really big thing. Carolyn Bassett Kennedy and JFK Jr are gonna be the talk of the culture. I mean, they already are with these pictures from the making of the new Ryan Murphy series trickling out. And, you know, she is a woman who women today look to with a kind of, gosh, she's taken on such a mystique. Her aura is so, so powerful. And I guess it's because. Well, I mean, it's a very sad story, but there are also just. There's a few images, and because there's just a few of them, they become.
- [26:55]
C
Well, they're kind of iconic.
- [26:57]
B
Yeah.
- [26:57]
C
Iconized. Right. I mean, I think that's also. She probably never gave an interview or ever talked. I mean, she was working for Calvin Klein. Her colleague Virginia Smith worked with her, really liked her. You know, Calvin clearly understandably loved her, but she never said very much. And as far as I remember, she never talked. So she was the embodiment of that time in that city and that look and that whole ethos. And again, it's that kind of pre Instagram, pre social media era. I mean, if she'd been around today, you know, it'd be a very, very different situation.
- [27:42]
A
Dressing for fashion shows requires a little spontaneity, and you have to plan for the events of your day, but also be open to what's around you. And a lot of that will be influenced by the street style that you're seeing. Just like in the moment, sometimes everybody's wearing low bun scrunchies. Obviously, we know that for a while they were wearing trench coats. So whenever I'm using the search bar on ebay, I'm really thinking about, like, a theme or like an aesthetic that's interesting to me at that moment. And so sometimes it really is just like sheer sparkle, mesh. Ebay will end up directing me in places that I could have never anticipated. And so much of what I'm wearing for fall shows is from ebay.
- [28:25]
B
Let's turn to this September and what's going to happen? I mean, do you expect more 90s? What are you thinking about? What's going to happen with all of these debuts?
- [28:39]
D
I feel a great sense of empathy for all the designers who've got debuts because I think there's so much scrutiny, both in industry and consumer scrutiny, of the inner workings of the fashion industry now that people treat the comings and goings of designers a bit like the way that football fans treat the comings and goings of managers in the game. So I think that there's a lot of casual interest and a lot of casual and often quite cruel scrutiny that comes from outside the outside, the actual closest sort of circles of the diagram. And I think that it's really tough. I think it's really tough to make a Debut. And I think especially tough in a season where there are so many people doing it. I think it will be really challenging for some designers because I think there's going to be debut fatigue another day, another pitch at revitalizing a house that has hired you to do so, which is a really big and tough task to do.
- [29:38]
C
Well, it's true. I mean, the sheer volume is a huge factor in it. And also the scrutiny to your point, because Marc Jacobs could go debut at Louis Vuitton, Michael Kors could debut at Celine, John Galliano could. That was probably a little bit more scrutinized Givenchy then Dior McQueen at Givenchy. I mean, they were scrutinized, but not to any way the degree and level that happens now. Understandably so because of social media and the Internet and everything else.
- [30:10]
D
I have another question as well, going back to that period that you're talking about, Mark, in the late 90s, when suddenly you had what seemed and was spontaneous, then kickstarted. What has now to us become semi formulaic that there are maybe 40, 50 houses, they all have creative directors, some come in, some go out, some stick around for a decade, which is increasingly rare, but most are on three year contracts and go in and go out. Sometimes I wonder if the more kind of creative angles they have at their pinnacle to represent their image in a way, almost the more diluted the essence of the house itself becomes. Because you have too many cooks in the restaurant over a period of time and nobody really understands what it represents. And it's a tough theory because it's hard on the creative directors, but sometimes I really feel it to be true. What do you guys think?
- [31:03]
C
I think when there's a lot of change, I really think you start just leaning more into the idea of the designer and less into the actual name itself. It becomes their interpretation.
- [31:14]
B
I agree. And I think that's why there's so much excitement around Phoebe Filo, because it is an example of sort of the breaking of the formula. She is a 21st century name building a 21st century brand. And you know, we have to ask at this moment in fashion, if the heritage brand formula, keeping these, you know, dead names, to use a popular concept now alive is the. Can it work long term with what you're saying, Luke, that the dilution of the heritage itself by all these different interpreters?
- [31:55]
C
Well, it would be nice to see some people perhaps backing names in their own labels. I mean, you know, from the ascent of Mark Muture, Helmut Lang, it would be nice to maybe see some of These talents flourish and work under their own names as opposed to being installed at houses. I guess the idea is that you have these stories, these houses, sorry, come with ready made stories and ready made narratives.
- [32:23]
B
What do you think might be next? Is there a decade that fashion hasn't plumbed that you'd like to see?
- [32:31]
C
You know, I just met with a whole bunch of students and spoke to them last week about my job and what I do. And there were 15 to 18. I think we'd have to ask them. I think, what are they kind of interested in? What are they looking at? Who knows?
- [32:45]
B
Well, I talked to those students too, earlier this summer, and I told them that Unzipped, the 1995 movie about Isaac Mizrahi, was my gateway drug to fashion. I saw that and I wanted to get to those fashion shows. And none of them, none of them had seen it. But it didn't even spark. They'd never even heard of it.
- [33:09]
C
It was probably as relevant to them as the Hays coat. Right from the 20s and 30s. They were just like, well, so I.
- [33:15]
B
Do think there's a. To young people today, going Back to the Y2K and indie sleaze, those years look nostalgic and almost like ancient history. And it's just 20 years ago instead of 30 or 40, 50, 60.
- [33:30]
D
I think we're really due a period of futurism. I don't think there's been like, I think because again, this podcast is evidence of it, but we've seen 60s style, 70s style, even sometimes 50s and 40s if you go back to new look collections, but not really since, you know, there are certain designers who flirted with it. And I'm not saying sci fi fashion, but I think there's so much happening technologically now. Like we're looking back at the beginning of the Internet, but I think we've only had first stage digital life and there are so many other things happening. You know, the fascination of the 60s was that there was so much technological change. The moon landing, I mean, apart from anything, was that it inspired a whole new school of fashion. And I think it's. I would like to hope that the way the technology has really changed our habits, plus the new innovations that we hear about all the time as a byproduct of that, both in terms of new social habits and new materials, we might see some new forms of expression of appearance that manifest themselves as fashion. Because I think to assume that we're always going to be looking back is very anti fashion almost because fashion has to be about innovation as well as reference.
- [34:42]
C
And I think that's also that that futurism was tied to optimism as well. It was a kind of sense that things were starting to shift and change in the world in that era of the 60s, and that there was a kind of bigger and better world out there. And tough though it is right now, maybe that will also be something that people will. The next generation will want to embrace and explore.
- [35:04]
B
Well, here's to futurism. The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Kariuki. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global audio.
- [35:35]
A
Right now I'm wearing this, like, perfect, kind of like, almost periwinkle purple metallic leather jacket that one of my best friends got me for my birthday just a couple weeks ago. And she got it on ebay. And the first day I wore it was to the Vogue offices. And as I was walking in the door, one of my cool friends stopped me outside and was like, this jacket is so cool. The color is so radiant. Was it made for you? And I was just like, my friend got it on ebay and it is perfect. I'm wearing it once a week, if not more. But it's the kind of thing that I plan also to be wearing for fall shows. Like, that's a completely appropriate thing to wear as an editor who's going backstage to be interviewing people, sort of like behind the scenes. But maybe you end up finding yourself, like, with a seat at the show.
- [36:20]
B
La la.
- [36:21]
A
Or maybe you have to go straight from there to a dinner that's like, very fancy, everything kind of needs to take you everywhere. And my ebay style is like, it can go everywhere from prx.