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- [00:01]
A
What do your leadership skills look like? I'm Mark Hunter, the Sales Hunter, and this is the Sales Hunter podcast. And, you know, I talk about the expression sales is leadership, leadership is sales. So it only makes sense that we unpack this today with the author of Leading with Zest. Brent Pullman's going to join me here in just a moment. He's the CEO of Midwest Laboratories. Why am I talking? Let's get the show going.
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B
Right now, you're listening to the Sales Hunter podcast with Mark Hunter, where the focus is to help you as a salesman, sell with confidence and integrity. And now, here's your host.
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A
Sales is leadership. Leadership is sales. Welcome to the stage, Brent Pullman. Thank you.
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C
Good to be here, Mark. I can't wait to have a discussion. We always discuss all the topics, and it's awesome. Every time we meet, I always feel
- [00:56]
A
that we've had more than a few lunches where we kind of go through every topic under the sun, and I do need to get back to Omaha and have lunch with you. I miss those times together. Anyway. Hey, you recently wrote the book Leading with Zest. You. You come at it, CEO. You lead a very large company that has had significant growth. You made a huge impact. Why did you write the book Leading with Zest?
- [01:22]
C
You know, I've written two books. The first one was Leaders look within. And then I. And that was so really, that would really help build the foundation for this set, this next book. But I had to look deep within myself from that first book and really understand what my values were in order effectively lead. And then I thought about it. You know, I could rest on my laurels and just be grateful the rest of my life. And a lot of people do that. But all of a sudden, you have all this inside of you, and you have this energy now, and you got to do something with it. And I think in order to follow through and really be an effective leader, you got to take action. You got to act on all those things you believe in and really show people that you do what. What you. What you say about yourself. You have to live it and you have to show it, and you have to do that daily. So that. That was really the premise of the next book, Leading with Zest.
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A
And I'll tell you what, you. You really did open up on it. I mean, you. You. You share. You shared it all, and it's amazing what you shared. But you use the word belief already several times that you really have to believe in yourself. Leadership. What does that look like to you?
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C
You know, Mark, I think it really is taking what you have and then I know, say, putting it into action. And that's the whole belief standpoint. You really have to live it. And the only way that can happen. And again, you realize you can't do this yourself. You have to, you need others. And when you really take those beliefs and you do use the word like zest, which means purposeful and from the heart, you're going to really live it and you will see the results of these things. And you do it not only at work, but at home. It really is like a huge transformation. It has been for me and I know that that's the only way I want to live right now. And I didn't used to be like that. I really want to live this way. And it is, it's, it's really a life changing thing to really think about putting all those things together and living it every single day.
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A
Okay, now you just unpacked something there. You said you didn't always live like that. Because I'm, people are listening to this. People are watching this and saying, okay, I'm not like this. How did you make the transformation?
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C
You know, I, I think for me it really was, you know, we, we are taking in so much information all the time, so much time, but literally was seeing no action out of it. And I think that's the thing that really caught my attention was if we don't really put all this good learning to use, that's, that's what's going to happen. And I, I do talk. I know the topic today is always AI but I really tell people, hey, I tell our, I remind our employees AI is not going to replace you. There's certain things you do that I need you to do every single day. Don't, don't worry, don't listen to what the news is saying that your job is going to be replaced, because it's not. There's so much more to life than just doing transactional work. There's so much more. And it's about, you know, as you know, relationships and integrity, all those things together. That's. AI is a good support, but it is not going to take over our, our jobs or take over us as
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A
people preach, preach, preach. I love, I love what you're saying here because I, I truly do believe that. And people in your company, you've got hundreds, hundreds of employees, they have to kind of just breathe because again, they can, they can trust you when you say things like that. So here's the situation. I'm a leader In a company we're struggling. And I know you shared in your first book how you kind of went through some changes in your company. What were some of those leadership lessons that I think anybody can apply because this also applies to sales. There's so much, everything you're talking about, leadership applies to sales.
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C
Well, and it really comes down, you've got to take care of yourself first. I don't have a magic like 10. You follow these steps, you're going to 10 steps and you're going to be a great leader. You have to find what works for yourself. And you start with yourself because in order to lead others, you better make sure that you know yourself well and you're in a healthy spot. I think that's the other part. Many people are not healthy and they, they act from a reactive standpoint. That was the case with me. And then because of that we, we go through and we have a lot of self doubt or self talk, negative self talk. I'm reminded. And I, I quoted this in the first book. But this exercise really was transformational for me. My negative talk self talk was so bad that I worked with a coach. I had to wear a rubber band around my wrist and every negative thought I had, I had to snap myself and write down why I had that negative thought. And the first day I had, I snapped my wrist 38 times. I will never forget, I had to write 38 times why I had these negative thoughts. But by the end of the month I was down to zero. It took a month for me to get my negative self talk out of there. So we talk about, I mean, a simple exercise like that. But really it really helped me find out why was I having these negative pieces and working through that. You have to do that as a leader in order again to effectively lead others.
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A
And again, I find that applying to sales so much because again, did, did you find as you got out of your negative talk that you listen the better that you.
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C
I was just gonna say that, I almost said that. But yes, you grow in awareness. Your awareness grows so much more. You're so much more and not just yourself now. You start to grow the awareness of others. And that is the key. That really is the key. You can start to understand where others are coming from and you want to understand where others are coming from because you know, if you can show, you know, whether it's empathy or just listening, you're going to connect with them. And that's what relationship building is all about. And we need to do that more and more, whether it's sales, whether it's just working with our co workers. And that's what gets me excited every single day. Because we are, we're not into ourselves. We're not isolated, we're not, we're not fearful. We're wanting to understand more.
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A
Wow, there's so much there. And again, the, the, the linkage between leadership and sales is so phenomenal because again, you got to start from within and you're saying it's from that positive standpoint. Now what have been some of the results that you've seen now that you've kind of jumped the shark, you are leading the zest.
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C
Well, and I, and I think this is why too. I will tell you. I, I've already read your book and it's amazing too, but it. You, you hit on some common themes that I also just really resonate with me. You want to work with trusted partners. I think that's just whether they're employees, vendors, clients, those people you can trust. And that is, that's all I want to work with right now. I, you know, and that when you say that, that really eliminates all a lot of things that you spend a lot of time working on and it really maximizes. You're putting all your investment and energy in the people that matter. And for me, that's the employees, obviously. I, they're my number one client. But then my clients, I want to work with those that I can trust. I've, I've learned, you know, you'll learn right away those that are just a little bit, you know, that seem a little bit funny or don't. Don't act with integrity. If we spend a lot of time with that, it's going to suck the inner. It is. It suck the life out of us. And that's where the negative self talk, because we're trying to please everyone. And you can't please everyone. You just learn that you want to spend the time with those that matter most because you know you're going to make a difference not only with them, but there will be others similar to that. You're only as good as the people that you hang around with. And I still use that. And that's, that's the people I want to hang around with, those trusted partners.
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A
Man, I, I love what you're saying there. So I got to ask you this question because you have this, without a doubt, this leadership aura around you. Your company doesn't. Do your customers see that? And how does that play back to you with the customers?
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C
It does. And I will tell You Mark, I mean, I think that's the key to all this. When you start to really live it and believe it, you put it in your subconscious. I really believe that. And it takes time because you want to go. Your. The tendency is to go back to your old self or your old ways, because that's comfortable. But just like working out every day, when you do it more consistently, it's part of your subconscious. And it's really. It's something that comes alive and you live it. And people do see it. People have even said to me, wow, you know what, you know, what is it that you're, you know, what are you doing these days? Or things like that? They'll just make certain comments, and those are the affirmations that you. You listen to because you know that what you're doing, again, is what. Is what you need, what you were made to do. I mean, that's. That's really purposeful work. Everybody wants to do purposeful work, and that's. That really affirms it for me.
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A
Because you're in a space where your clients, your customers, your accounts have got. Have got options. There are other companies that, that they could go with, and yet they choose to go with you. Don't reveal any company secrets, but I would imagine that your retention rate has got to be pretty significant because of the approach that you have.
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C
Oh, it is, absolutely. I think. I think that's the. The key I. We went through this time, you know, during COVID and I will say, you know, retention was. Was tough because people were really influenced by what was happening, including myself. There was times, you know, oh, gosh, what's. What's all this mean? You know, do I need to do this? Do I need. I was getting pulled in every kind of direction. But again, when you really stick to the values and you really stick to what you believe in, it does not matter. I know I'd say this, but it does not matter what's going on on the outside. You really live from a place from within. It matters more than what's coming from the outside inside yourself. So, no, I really believe that, you
- [11:48]
A
know, everything you're saying is screams and comes out in your book. Leading with zest. I want to come to something, something that is so unique and so special. Every time I walk in the front door of your building, I look to the left and there's the prayer board where you ask not just employees, but customers, anybody to put up prayer requests.
- [12:10]
C
Yeah, I think. Yeah. You know what? I. I mean, it was really a blessing. The Story. The backstory that I'll tell quickly was I lost my mom to cancer and my dad and I were at a conference. And we walk in this coffee shop and I look to the left and there's this chalkboard and it says, how can we pray for you? And I look at my dad and I said, oh, I think my. I think mom's trying to tell us something. And I said, we need to take this. I think we need to take this to our workplace. I think prayer is so non invasive to who does not want to be prayed for or if you've got a concern or. I mean, it's just it. It really is non evasive. I don't force that on anybody. I don't. I don't require anyone to post. It's simply there. And if somebody posts something there, they'll know it's being prayed for. And there's just a. I think there's a care and understanding about that. And I think that's what we need more too, is just put the putting things out there that just anybody can really respect. They don't have to. They're not forced. And if they want to, they can. I mean, it's just there. It's just another option for them.
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A
I think that's a way that you really, truly demonstrate visually what you're all about, what you as a person are about, what your company's about. Yeah. Again, don't reveal any company secrets, but I would imagine that your employee retention rate is lower. Oh. Because people just love working there.
- [13:41]
C
They do. You know, I think that's the, that's the key. I think when you, when people are engaged or when you. When I see them in the hallway, I, you know, I stop and say, hi, you know, I'm getting better. I don't know everybody's name because we've grown quite a bit. But even when I can call somebody by their name, I was embarrassed. There was one place I. Where I get my coffee. I've seen this person now for three years, and I couldn't think of her. I couldn't think of this person's name. I finally just asked her. I said, hey, what's your. What's your name? You know, and once I knew that person's name, now I say it all the time. It's. It's so different. It really takes the relationship to another level because it just, again, it shows that you care. Think about it. How many times have you worked at a place and you never hear your name called? I mean, if we, if we just stop and call people by their name. It really does show that we care. It's just. It's. It's the. Someone showed me that and I. The power in that is just. It's crazy, but it is. It's very personal. When we say somebody's name.
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A
Brent. Brent. I gotta say your name there. Right there. I mean, hey. But yeah, I mean, I love what you're saying because it demonstrates a personal care. And what's so good, what I see in you and in your company is it's not just the actions, but it truly is the real acts and acts when nobody's watching. I mean, this is the way you are and it permeates everything. That's why I was so fortunate. I was so pleased to have you endorse my book. Integrity first selling. That's not what we're talking here about today. We're talking about leading with zest, but the two very much, very much play in together. Because everything I see you do is with integrity. Everything. Yeah.
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C
Well, thank you, Mark. That means a lot. I think it's. It. It is. It's probably. It goes against the grain today, but it is the only way if you're gonna really be. Make a difference. You may not see it right away, but it's the long. It's the long game. It is. It truly is the long game. And you stay connected. I think better than anything else is that integrity. Who wants the short win, you know, or. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't. It just doesn't. If you don't use it, if you don't sell or you do anything. With integrity.
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A
Yeah. I want to talk about this whole leading with zest and so forth, because again, when you kind of began to make this change, like you said, a time there. There was a time in my life when things weren't always that. Was it awkward at work? Was it a transition period? What did that look like?
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C
Yeah, you know, it was. It was. Because depending on where you're at, like, I would say there was a period in time when I worked with my father, so he had many, many years of all the experiences that he had. And here I come. This new person don't have quite as many experiences he has. And we're trying to work together and we're trying to do our own dreams and goals. And he's been told one thing, I've been told another thing. And it was. It was. It was tentious at times. And at times we were going there and at the company. At one time, we were going 100 miles an hour this way. I mean, people didn't know what was going on. They didn't, wow, this guy's doing this. This guy's doing this. What's happening? And that was, that was creating a really chaotic environment at the time. I think through that whole process, what I learned was even myself, my dad was the founder of this company, so I really deferred a lot to him. I did. And I buried a lot of step in pulling that stuff back out. I mean, when I say pull it back out, some of us, some people go to work every single day without any purpose or meaning. They say, I just gotta do my task. I'm gonna do this eight to five. When it's five o', clock, I'm done. I was probably one of those too, you know, just not really. I'll just do. I'll make it through the day. And that's it. When you really are told that you're gonna lead and then every minute that you. Hey, every minute counts, you gotta start taking that stuff maybe that you buried for years and really bring that out to the forefront. And when you do that, you're going to learn some stuff about yourself and then you really. But what it really does help you see is this is where I want to act. This is where I'm going to act from a position and I. I'm grounded here and I want to stay at this level. So I think, I think going through that whole process is good. It's hard. It's very hard. But you have to go through that as a leader if you're going to lead effectively.
- [18:11]
A
Do you see yourself playing at a much more productive level? At almost an easier level, that you just have more adrenaline, more just because you. Because you feel like you have a real sense of purpose?
- [18:23]
C
Yes. And I talk in the book. I think you got to find it again for yourself. For me. I know, Mark, this is going to sound funny, but I love going to Chiefs games. You know, I'm a huge Chiefs fan. I have to get a seat next to the field. I want to be. I've. I've had that experience of being right next to the field. And when you understand that Patrick Mahomes has two seconds to let to. It's. I like. I usually sit in the end zone. You know, it's first and goal. You got two seconds to make a move. He's got to release the ball, find the receiver as fast as can with the noise going on. Everything. That whole experience, that's to your point. That's the adrenaline. You got to make those decisions in the moment, in the heat of the moment. And to me, that's just like edifying. Like, okay, he knows what, he knows his receiver so well. He knows they're going to go right or left and he's going to put that, that football on a dime in two seconds because that's all he has the time. So things like that, I really take in to your point. That builds the adrenaline, that builds the activity. That's why I think activity for me is really something that I really, I have to start my day off with as part of my workout because I really want that experience. I think that experience really says a lot when you can make those type of choices that fast. So that's, that's how I get it. Everyone finds a different way to do it. I just tell my story of how that works for me.
- [19:39]
A
I love it. You and I have a very common approach how we start today. We physically work out. We spend time in prayer and we spend time in the word. And it's amazing at how it does reset the day. Hey, tell people real quick because mid Midwest Laboratories, you, I mean, how many employees have you got there now?
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C
So we have 330 employees now.
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A
330 employees. You provide what, you do what?
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C
So analysis wise, we are in three industries. We're in agriculture, environmental, human health and animal health. So we do all types of testing. I say we do everything but blood, but basically from the, for farmers, growers, soil, plants, water. For animals, it's feed, pet food, and then on the human side, it's food safety testing. And those things together we have a wide array of clients based on that. So food production, water. I feel like we're doing something every single day to help keep this country, keep our city, our country again, on the safe side, basically.
- [20:47]
A
I love that. I love your focus. I love your mission. Hey, the book is Leading with Zest. How do people get it?
- [20:54]
C
The best way is just go on Amazon and just simply, you can type my name in or Leading with Zest. You'll find it. That would be the best way that people could find my book.
- [21:05]
A
Terrific. We've been talking today with Brent Pullman. He's the CEO of Midwest Laboratories. Absolutely a stellar company that truly does lead. And every lesson that he shared absolutely applies to sales. Every lesson in sales applies leadership. And you heard it here today from Brent. We do two episodes a week, one like this, where we do a deep dive into sub matter expert. Second episode is. It's just me single topic why the podcast is to help you see and achieve what you didn't think was possible. Do me a favor, leave me a review on your favorite podcast app. Pick up Brent's book Leading with Zest and pick up Integrity first selling. He's reaching back behind him. If you copy of the book, he's got it. For those of you who are just catching the audio, but my name is Mark Hunter, the Sales Hunter. Thanks so much for listening. Great selling.