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- [00:00]
A
It's time we find a new way to sell. Why? Because let's not kid ourselves. The methods we've been using just do not work. I'm going to invite you to. Oh, this is a funny pun. Invitational Selling. That's what we're going to talk about with me today, Dr. Dennis Cummings. Why am I talking? Let's get the show going.
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Right now you're listening to the Sales Hunter podcast with Mark Hunter, where the focus is to help you as a salesman sell with confidence and integrity. And now here's your.
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A
The customer is on their own journey, and that means Invitational selling is the way we need to sell. With me today, Dr. Dennis Cummins. Welcome to the show.
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C
Thanks for having me, Mark. I appreciate it.
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A
Okay, let's cut right to the chase because you've got a book coming out on the same name, Invitational selling. So unpack it. What is Invitational selling all about?
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C
Invitational Selling, Mark, is a way to actually involve the. Your client or potential customer in the decisions they make. So, you know, my advice for people regarding all sales is stop selling. Just allow your customers to buy. Right. And I think if you do that, what we unpack in the book is what's the methodology for doing that? How do you get them to say, I want what you've got and I know it can help me instead of trying to push it down their throat or sounding just like everybody else. You know, my observation over, you know, over almost two decades now of selling on stages all over the world and, and building two successful practices and multiple entrepreneurial journeys is that people are getting a little fatigued with the sales pushes and the, and the funnels that are out there and the automated, you know, next thing and next shiny object stuff. And how do we do it differently, how do we do it better and how do we get more high quality clients through our doors? And that's what Invitational Selling is all about.
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A
Okay, so it's all about really letting the customer drive the process. We gotta be listening to them. But here's the challenge. How do we find those people and how do we really shift out of that mode? I'm asking you kind of two or three questions all at once. Let's first unpack this. How do we find those customers?
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C
Well, one of the things that I do, Mark, in addition to authoring Invitational Selling, I have a, I have a program I call building your business from the stage. And that's all about helping people become no longer a secret. Right. I think a lot of people are the best kept secret in the world. Like they're, they're great at what they do, but nobody knows. So how do we let people know about what they do? I like to say that, you know, I'm a sales communication strategist. I help people language what they do, I help them talk about what they do in a way that makes people want to lean in a little bit and then say, all right, hey, I like what you've got. So I think, how do you find those people? Well, number one, you've got to become visible. And that doesn't mean posting AI in, you know, AI initiated posts every single day and letting, letting your, you know, artificial intelligence craft a whole 60, you know, social media campaign for you. This is about, and by the way, you're doing this right now, Mark. You've got your podcast, multiple podcasts, you've been doing this for years and you've established yourself as the expert when it comes to creating successful sales interactions. Right? But you've done this by getting in front of people. My advice, if you really want to help people buy from you, well, they have to know who you are first. And that's, that's really, that's the first component of invitational selling is the connection part. How do you connect with them on a human level? Right. There's so much AI stuff out there, there's so much automated and systemized and computerized messaging that's going on that everybody's starting to sound the same. You know, AI has been an amazing equalizer for the play playing field. What, what I think we need to do is we need to start moving almost a little bit away from that. And I'm not saying don't use it, because I think using AI is brilliant and it's so critical to sales success. But then I think we have to bring who we are as human beings into the picture. You know, letting people know, hey, I understand you. I know what your problems are. You know, listen, I work with salespeople all the time, and what I'm hearing is that the marketing spend and the advertising spend that used to generate results from them is no longer generating near the results that it had in the past. And the quality of the leads that it's generating is getting worse and worse and worse. How do we change that? What do we do differently? And I think that starts with initiating conversations. Now they may be like you and I are having right now on a podcast, or it may be doing some personal reach out, but I think at some point we have to bring the human element back into the sales process.
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A
Okay, now I was with a sales team just this morning. And the sales team is charged with a monthly quota. They're charged with making X number of sales calls. They're charged. They, they sell for a company, a major company. You'd recognize the name if I were to say it. And the challenge is they don't have time to. They would say, I kind of agree. They don't have time to develop that personal brand, so to speak. How do they go about doing this? Because once they establish a relationship, fine, then they can really connect with them on a personal level. But getting to that point, that's hard.
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C
And you know, and Mark, you could, you could, maybe we disagree on this, maybe not, but I think maybe we don't. I think that the general mindset of most people in the sales environment is that creating and building a relationship with somebody takes a long time and it's a lot of effort and it may not produce the results that we want. My experience has been that it does not take that long to create a relationship. Now I'm not saying you're going to become BFFs and you need to know everything about them and their anniversary and when their kids birthdays are, but you could create a relationship with someone by just exhibiting some genuine curiosity, I think asking a few questions that let them know that a, as somebody who's got a product or service to offer, that I can care about what you do and who you are and that I care about your needs. And that doesn't take nearly as long as many people in the sales industry think that it does.
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A
Okay, I like where you're going with this because I truly believe we need to bring an element of curiosity to sales that unfortunately salespeople don't. And along with that is a level of empathy to truly be understanding what the customer is telling us. So how do I frame up a conversation? How do I start that?
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C
Well, a lot of that is, you know, in the book I talk about, it really walks people through three processes. I like to say connect, convey, convert. The connect part is just asking some simple, genuine questions about, hey, what's going on for you? What are you looking to accomplish? And the challenge here, Mark, is that most people in, in sales, they immediately go to these probing sales questions. And we've all experienced it and it is not pleasant. Like we're like, you're just asking me that. You're just setting me up so that you can then sell me something like three sentences from now. And I think the consumers have become far more savvy and aware of that type of languaging in that situation. So. So that's why I said before it's genuine curiosity, like, do you care about the people you're trying to serve? Now, I will admit, and you've probably had this experience as well. There are a lot of people in the sales industries. It's all about, I just need to make my number and I need to bring the money home, and I'm going to reach out to as many people, and I don't care what I say, as long as I can get that deal closed. Okay, you're going to have a tough slog of it, and I don't think you're really going to enjoy your life or your career if that's the way you approach sales. I think, though, when you start to care about the outcomes that you create for people and you are genuinely interested in making sure that the solution you have is right for the person in front of you, I think the sales process in that conversation, all the defensive mechanisms start to melt away at that point. So instead of somebody thinking, oh, he. You're just trying to sell me something. This is a question getting ready to set me up to try to sell me something in a few minutes. Now what happens is they're like, oh, this guy actually gives a darn, and he wants to know about me. Well, let's have a conversation now and see if this is right. So I always like soft questions like, hey, would you mind telling me a little bit about what's going on for you? It's a gentle invitational question. I'm not telling you to give me your information. I'm asking you if you'd like to. And when the decision is placed on the. The person you're dealing with, on the consumer, on the potential client, when you give them the option to respond or move forward, they're far more likely to take that next step. And I'm not trying to close them, I'm not trying to sell them. I'm just trying to determine, are we good for one another? And that's a different process. It's a different way to think about it than many salespeople think.
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A
Sure is. Now here's the challenge. How do I get that initial conversation? Because it's harder and harder to be able to find people who will even respond. I mean, can I do this by way of email? Can I do this by way of text? And you do they?
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C
I think you can start with that. Like, I use AI for outreach and, and cold outreach. People don't know who I am. They don't know that I care. They don't know that a difference. They don't know that I can help them. But I do it because I need to have some sort of a connection. But at that point, then you have to add some personal element, some human element. And it. I like to, you know, you know, maybe you've done the same, Mark, but, you know, you can have AI, you can have Chat, GPT or, or Claude or, or copilot, whatever you're using. You could have them generate a list of random emails for you to send out. And they're all fairly generic and the same. I like to kind of insert my own personality into those things, though. And that's where I think adding the human element separates you from just AI. Like use AI for outreach. Use AI for market research. Use AI to figure out who you should be targeting and looking for. But then I think the next step is you. You, Mark, me, Dennis, and you all watching us. I think it's important for all of us to insert our actual selves into this conversation. Right. So use AI for the market research. It's an amazing tool and it would be, I think, foolish not to take advantage of it. But I also think it's even more foolish to rely entirely upon it because that's what makes everyone sound exactly the same. And I think for sales to become more successful, both for you and for your clients and customers, I think we need to distinguish ourselves. I think we need to stand out as unique. And we do that by sharing something personal, something that brings in our experiences and our stories and our successes and our failures and the way we communicate that is individual for each and every one of us. And when we do that in a softer, gentler way, it makes it so much easier for those clients that we found randomly or we found through AI searches or we found through using Sales Navigator on LinkedIn, it gives us the next step to take.
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A
You are spot on with that because it is the human element. Because AI, I think, is giving sales a bad name because all people are doing is they're spraying and praying to tens of thousands of people versus thousands of people because they have AI that can help them do it. That personal element really comes into play. So here's the question. How much research should a salesperson do before they try to engage you? I mean, if I was reaching out to you, Dennis, how much research should I be doing before I reach out to you?
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C
I think you should do enough to know that the solution you've got is potentially a solution that that person needs to move them to the next step. So maybe you're identifying a certain position in a sales company. You know, for me, I work with a lot of small to mid sized businesses helping them with their marketing communication arm and their sales communication strategies. I'm not a Google Ad placer. Like if you're looking to place Google Ads or Facebook ads or do LinkedIn advertising, like, I'm not the guy that does that. I'm not that sort of a person. But if you need to know what to say to make that sound more natural, well then that's something that I can help with. So I'm looking for companies that do that, that are looking for the right thing to do. And if we, if you find that that makes that easier. I don't know if that answered your question, Mark.
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A
No, I think, I think that does because again, it's just doing enough research to get something personal that I can reach out to you with. Again, it puts that human element in there and I think that really accelerates the entire conversation.
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C
Oh, for sure. I, I believe it does as well. The other thing that allowing people to make decisions, Mark, you know, when I was so, my previous history, I mean I've been doing this for, for the last two decades almost. But before that I, I was a chiropractor. I still am a chiropractor, but I ran two offices and when I used to do a report of findings and that's when someone would come in with a problem, we'd take some X rays, we do all our exam stuff and the next day we would expect, explain what was going on and what we think we should do. And I tell the story in the book, you know, and a lot of times you would try, you'd say, hey, listen, if you want to take care of this, you're going to need to come in, you know, X number of times a week for probably six to eight weeks for it to get resolved and to move to the next step. And they'd be like, oh my God, that's so much time. What do you mean two months? This is, why can't I just, you know, because we're so used to just taking a pill or potion to make it go away. So I realized even then I didn't call it invitational selling then, but I realized like there was another way to do this report of findings, we called it. So what I would do is I would show some X rays behind me, I'd put up their X rays on the screen and I would explain what a normal X ray looked like. And then I would put their X ray up right next to it, and I'd ask them, what do you notice? And I would let them tell me what was wrong with them. Right? And then I would say, well, you know, hey, listen, you're spot on. And here's what I also noticed. And then I'd say, most of the people with what you have who want to get better faster, stay better longer, and save more money in the long run, choose to come in X number of days for X number of weeks to get rid of their problem. And then I said, what would you like to do? And then I would just be quiet and I would let them tell me what their treatment plan would be. Now, it had never failed that they said, well, I want that. Let's do that. But then what happened is there was no pushback. They didn't resist. They didn't have buyer's remorse because they got forced or tricked into doing something that they didn't want to. They agreed and they decided to move forward, which took away all of the objections, all of the resistance, all of the follow through. And. And as a result, they actually, number one, it helped my practice grow. But even more important, they got better results. And they did it because it was their decision, not me telling them what to do. And I think that is really one of the things at the core of invitational selling is empowering our clients and our potential customers to choose to move forward with us rather than telling them what they've got to do. Whether it's a fear of missing out or there's going to be some incredible loss, or their life's going to be a shambles, or their relationships are going to be dissolved. If you don't do this with me now. And you've got to act today. And there's only five available. And if you act now, you get a second sham. Wow. None of that stuff is working anymore and everybody knows it. So just tell them I can help you. And then what would you like to do? I think the core of selling, Mark, is I noticed that you have a problem. I think through our conversation, you've determined, and we both know that, that I actually know how to fix this problem. What would you like to do about it? And that's it. That sales right there. Find a problem you can fix, let them know that you're the guy that can fix it, and then just let them decide. And by the way, you and I both know, Mark, not everybody's going to decide to move forward. You know, there's Always people that just. They're just not ready yet. But at least now they know that when they're ready, they know who to go to, and they know that you were just genuinely wanting to help, not just trying to sell them something.
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A
Okay. I love what you've described there, because you started out by really painting a visual picture. You showed them visuals, and you showed them what good looks like and what they look like. And again, you allowed them to decide. You allowed them to say, what are the differences? Then you mentioned the practice, and you. You allowed them to choose all on the way, which really is not. It's not threatening, it's not demanding. It's a very comfortable approach. But I see another thing. You truly believe in the outcome, and when you believe. I believe from a sales standpoint, we have to believe in the outcome as to how we can help the patient, how we can help the customer. And when you do that, it's amazing at what can happen. That was a great example that you shared. Thank you. Hey. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
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C
I was just gonna say, you know, I've. I. I help people get really good at explaining what they do. Right? I help them with the sales process. But I have my number one rule, and I say this before. I said, over the next couple of days, I'm gonna. I'm gonna help you build. I'm gonna help you design and deliver your promotional messaging and your prom. I said, but here's rule number one. Do not sell junk. Which is really just what you said. Like, I do believe in what I do, and I have hundreds of clients that have shown the results. So, like, I have the proof in addition to my own true belief. I think it's real important for those of you that are watching right now. You know, Mark, I know you know this, but for. If you really want to get great at sales, you really. I think it's essential that we believe in what we do, because it's that confidence and that conviction that comes across in the human interactions, and that's when people really understand, like, this guy's the real deal. He can help me. All right, now it's on me. What do I want to do?
- [19:47]
A
You know, I love what you're saying there. Hey, the book Invitational Selling, where do people get it? How do they get in touch with you?
- [19:56]
C
Invitational Selling is available. You can get it on Amazon. So just look for Invitational Selling on Amazon bookstore, and it'll be available for you when you're ready to read. It's a great read. It's got. It walks. Everybody through all of the steps is a lot of the personal stories, some of which I shared today. And then in the back, Mark, you said, like, you know, how do you establish that rapport? How do you establish that relationship? The back of the book actually has something I call the Invitational Language Library. And it's a list of different types of questions that you can ask to invite people to take the next step for all different situations, whether it's sales or leadership or even with your family. Because we're all selling something, right? We're either selling a product or service. But if you're in leadership, well, you're selling an idea or a concept. It's the same thing. We have to get people to enroll, to follow along with us. And if you want to get in touch with me, it's super simple. Speak with Dennis.com. that's. That'll put you on my. My calendar. And if you're interested in having a conversation about how I might be able to help you with this, hey, let's just jump on a call. I'd love to find out a little bit more about what you're doing. If I can help. I will. If we just make friends. Great. For me. Awesome.
- [21:13]
A
Terrific. Invitational Selling is the book. You need to grab it right now. I've had a chance to preview the book. It is exceptional. You do need to read it and apply it. Hey, you've been listening to the Sales Hunter podcast. Two episodes a week, one like this, where we do a deep dive with a subject matter expert. Second episode is where it's just me doing a deep dive on a single topic. Why do I do the podcast? It's to help you see and achieve what you didn't think was possible. Do me a favor. Leave me a review on your favorite podcast app, would you? And of course, hey, while you're picking up Invitational selling, make sure you pick up my new book, Integrity First Selling. I'm Mark Hunter, Sales Hunter. Great selling.