A (4:27)

Okay, let me break this down. It feels like what you're trying to do is you're trying to help the cloud customer to be more confident.

B (4:36)

Yes. And you know what? Another friend of mine said to me, David, I'm, you know, I'm looking at all your resources. I'm looking at the book, I'm looking at all the teaching and preaching around market eminence. You know what you're doing. So I love confidence. He said, you're giving people permission. You're giving them permission to be more of who they are. You're giving them permission to speak their mind loudly, proudly, and with genuine authenticity and vulnerability. You're giving them permission to call out the BS and what's wrong with the industry and, you know, to be a crusader and a hero to the eyes of the people who matter most. And when I say people who matter most, that's not necessarily prospects and leads and customers and clients. It certainly includes them, but it's also talent. It's people who you want to have come work for you. It's also partners. It's also media. It's also possibly investors or even acquirers, people that you would like to have buy your company. Because when you are transmitting on this frequency of contrarian, bold, sharp, strong perspective that separates you from everyone else who does what you do or who looks like they do what you do, you are creating your own category. You are creating a very special, very unique asset in the marketplace that only you and or your team are, are qualified to fulfill because you're doing it with a level of confidence, as you said, and a level of permission where you can just speak the truth. You can just, you know, obviously that's a big message behind integrity. Integrity first. Then, you know, integrity first. Selling is no lying, no bs. Right. Let's figure out what's really working for our customers and clients and friends and colleagues and let's amplify that and let's not just lead people like sheep. Let's be leadership worthy. That you have a message that is worth listening to and you have a profound impact on the future of your industry. Sounds like a really tall order, but it starts with visibility and respect and brand preference.

A (6:58)

Okay, I love where you're going with this and I want to take permission. I'm going to, I'm going to flip it around here in just a second. But what I love what you're talking about is it's authentic transparency.

B (7:09)

Yes.

A (7:09)

Because this, this is what, this is what you're calling on us. And we're in sales. And we're, and we're all in sales. Every, every person. Oh, yes. Is. It's authentic and it creates then that level of permission. But I'm going to think I'm going to flip this around. It now gives the customer permission to invest, to spend money with you.

B (7:29)

Yes, very much.

A (7:31)

Because the number one, the, the number one competitor we face is no decision. Right. The customer chooses not to make a decision because they haven't seen enough of a value proposition. They haven't seen enough reason as to why they should buy. So as a result of what you're talking about is, is you're saying this gives the salesperson, the business owner, the, the brand manager, all those people permission. But I think in doing so, we give the customer permission. Thoughts on that?

B (8:00)

Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll even, I'll, I'll, I'll see your customer permission and I'll raise you to customer rejection.

A (8:08)

And after that, and if that, I'm going to call and we're going to put our cards on the table.

B (8:12)

So it's okay. Sounds good. Sounds good. So, so think about all the bad fits that you've had in your business. Bad fit leads, bad fit customers, bad fit employees, bad fit partners, all the nightmare prospects, nightmare clients from hell. And imagine if we built an electromagnet around you and your company. Electromagnet. Very, very powerful. It has two polarities. One is, it's very, very strongly attracting all the best fits in all those areas I mentioned. Clients, prospects, talent, team, media partners, investors, acquirers, pulling in all the best fits. And it's equally repelling because of the opposite polarity. It's repelling the bad fits. The people that you would never want to sell to, the people that would be nightmare clients, the people who would you never want to have come work for you. And so there's a very strong repulsive force that also gives the customer permission to say, you know what, this isn't for me. Not only is this not for me, I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. This goes against what I believe in, this goes against my values, this goes against my, my personal preferences. These people, they're too crazy, they're too wacky, they're too straight up, they're too by the book, they're too whatever. There's a mismatch. So the more time we can spend in the marketplace not convincing and persuading and chasing, because that is so 2025, we do not need to be chasing, persuading or convincing anybody. But once you turn on this market Eminence Electromagnet, you are now in the filtering and sorting business and you are going to be strongly pulling in all the best fits and strongly repelling, proactively repelling the bad fits so that they never even knock on your door.

A (10:08)

And nothing is going to change your top line and your bottom line more than doing exactly what you just said. Because this is one of the challenges and I love where you're going with this because we do become the sum of, of who we associate with the most. And, and it's amazing how we attract those who are like us. And if we're playing in this, in this field, we're going to attract a higher quality, a higher calorie and the, the polarity thing, without a doubt, we're going to repel those. And you stop and think about the number of, of hours wasted by salespeople chasing customers who ultimately will never buy. It's huge. It's huge. Yeah. So let's get in. This is a fascinating interview because there's so much similarity with what we're talking. We're talking with David Newman, author of the new book Market Eminence, 22 Strategies. You got to pick it up now in the, in the book, you've got the title, you've got the subtitle, and man, you go into a lot of different things. If I'm a salesperson.

B (11:12)

Yes.

A (11:12)

What part should I drill down on the most in the book. And don't say the entire thing.

B (11:19)

No, no, that's, that would be a cop out answer. Mark Hunter, come on. We're not in the cop out answer business. We're in the, we're in the tough, tough question, tough answer business. I would say that most sales professionals will get tremendous, tremendous value from one or two of the early chapters. And I'm going to put money down on the contrarian slant. So here's the contrarian slant. This is one out of the 22 strategies and prompts that are in the book that have detailed kind of how to think, what to do, questions to ask yourself, questions to ask your team. But if you just did this one thing this week, so you're listening to this podcast on whatever day you're listening to this podcast, if you try this tomorrow, I would be very surprised if you did not get an incredibly positive reaction. So I'm going to give you three questions to help you develop and surface your contrarian slant. Question number one. What conventional wisdom in your field do you secretly think is completely wrong, but you've never publicly challenged? So think about what is it out there that is not serving clients, that is either outdated. It's a, it's a partial truth. It's, it's perhaps a cliche in your business that you and your company are totally against. You've totally left it behind. It's in the rear view mirror. But a lot of people still think that that conventional wisdom holds true. And then just start jotting down some notes, write down some short bullets, key phrases, keywords that will spark your thinking. Second prompt to help you surface your contrarian slant. What harsh truth about your industry are clients desperate for someone to finally acknowledge openly? Mark, I call this one the elephant in the room question. Everyone knows it, everyone feels it, but no one's talking about it. It's like one of the unmentionables in your industry. So, for example, if you're running an accounting firm or a law firm, people are going to be railing against hourly fees. Why am I getting nickel and dime? Why are you guys $800 an hour? Why is it that it costs $6 when you make a single photocopy? And imagine if there was a company, if there was a law firm or an accounting firm that says, we reject hourly pricing, it doesn't serve clients, it doesn't serve our team. And so on their home page, let's say it says no hourly rates, right? Fixed fees, just results. And then they go in and they have a little explanatory paragraph right there on the homepage that says we don't use hourly billing because we are much more concerned about getting you to your destination than we are in running the meter. Boom, mic drop. Every other law firm loses their mind. Every other accounting firm goes, oh my God, they said that out loud. Are you kidding? Meanwhile, if you ask five of your premium law firm clients, your premium accounting firm clients, how do you feel about the work that your law firm is doing that the longer it takes, the more they charge you, isn't it greater economic value to you that the shorter it takes, the more economic value it is for you? Now imagine that same law firm or that same accounting firm. They're going to the marketplace and they're looking to hire top talent. You say, hey guys, we don't do hourly billing. You are going to get a fixed fee number that's going to be equal or higher than what you'd have charged with hourly billing because we have premium rates. We're a premium provider with fixed fees. And you're going to get home in time, six o' clock for dinner. Do you think they're going to get higher caliber talent or lower caliber talent who are falling all over themselves to work for that company? So this, I'm just expounding on this sort of elephant in the room question, but to get back to your homework assignment, very specifically, question number two was what harsh truth about your industry are clients desperate for someone to finally acknowledge openly? Third and final prompt to help sales professionals develop their contrarian slant. What strong point of view do you already hold? So it's already genuine. You already hold it and believe it and think it. That makes industry insiders uncomfortable, but resonates deeply with your ideal clients. Now I'll tell you where to gather this research. Think about every client that you've won over from a competitor. What did they complain about? What did that other company or that other vendor do that you would never do? Were they late? The invoices were never right. Their shipments, you never knew when the shipments were coming in. They, they were a disaster to work with. They put me into this gigantic phone tree. I could never talk to a human being. All the complaints that you've ever gotten about a good customer and a good client who switched to your company when they initially reached out to you or when you initially spoke to them, what did they complain about? What was frustrating to them, what just pissed them off, what made them really, really upset. That your company is the solution to your company is the antidote to that. But sometimes we don't talk about that. We don't mention that up front. We have, you know, that's just sort of assumed because everyone assumes that the industry does business the way we do business or the industry sees the marketplace the way we see the marketplace. And that is not true at all. So with these three questions to help you develop your contrarian slanted, and I'll review them real quick. Number one, what conventional wisdom in your field you secretly think is completely wrong but have never challenged publicly? Jot down some quick notes. Number two, what harsh truth about your industry are clients desperate for someone to finally acknowledge openly? Elephant in the room. Question number three, what strong point of view do you already hold that makes industry insiders uncomfortable but resonates deeply with your ideal clients? What are they complaining about? What are they escaping from when they come to work with you? What are they complaining about the previous guy or the previous gal that they did or they didn't do? You start putting that into a LinkedIn post tomorrow, you start putting that into a sales conversation tomorrow, you start putting that into a piece of content that you send to a prospect that you're working with tomorrow. And watch the response you get. It is going to be dramatic, it is going to be fast, and it's going to be overwhelmingly positive. So for salespeople, where should they start? Answer those three questions to develop your contrarian slant and start using it tomorrow. Start using it asap.

A (18:25)

David, I love where you're going with this because again, this is what the customer's thinking about. They're already thinking about it. You are simply calling it out. And I can think of no better way because I believe when I'm prospecting and so forth, the faster I engage you, the prospect in a customer of interest, in a question of interest to you, the faster we're going to be able to have a conversation. And that is exactly what you did. I love the whole premise of this book because again, we. What you did was you called out the giant elephant in the room, and that is that traditional business processes. Again, this book isn't just written for salespeople. It's written for anybody and everybody. Traditional business processes are broken. They are totally out of control. And what you're saying is when you create market eminence for yourself, you truly do distinguish yourself in the marketplace, and that's good. And you're going to sleep better at night. You're going to command a higher fee. Yeah. Wow. Okay, now we got to wrap this up here in just a couple minutes. And. And I Love. Where this going? Market eminence. I mean, that is not exactly a title that would kind of like, oh, wow, that's a book title everybody wants.

B (19:43)

You are. You are so right. And I got some pushback early on from friends, colleagues, maybe even you and I talked about it. Something like, well, eminence, that's not a word you hear every day. What the heck does that mean? No one's, no one's searching for market eminence. There's no VP of sales that's waking up in a cold sweat at two o' clock in the morning going, oh, I wish my team had more market eminence. But I'll tell you why I chose that name. The word eminence has an amazing dictionary definition. It's fame or recognized superiority, especially within a sphere or profession. So fame or recognized superiority. Notice it's not enough just to be superior. It is recognized superiority, especially within a particular sphere or profession. So you don't need to be famous. You don't need to be Internet famous. You don't need to be even Mark Hunter famous. You need to be famous to the people who matter most. You need to be famous to. It's like the old Visa commercial. Remember, Mark, the old Visa commercial said that Visa is everywhere you want to be. And so you don't need to be everywhere, but you need to be everywhere that your prospects and that your key stakeholders are so everywhere you want to be is you want to be famous in a very specific, prescribed environment. And you want to be famous for the right reason, which is you are the truth teller. You are the. The leader of a movement. You are the beacon and the lighthouse that is illuminating the harbor, the safe harbor. So you're helping people navigate around the rocks. You are helping them find the safest, surest passage forward. And there is a level of trust and recognition and respect. Notice, a lighthouse isn't chasing. So one of the analogies that I say in my seminars sometimes is you've spent your entire life as a sales professional being a tugboat. And a tugboat is pulling and huffing and puffing and sweating and convincing and persuading and chasing. Whereas a lighthouse is strong and firm and clear and consistent and is just this powerful, illuminating force in their industry that magnetically draws ships in the right ships for the right reason. And no more tugboat, my friends. You are 100% lighthouse if you pursue market eminence in that dictionary definition way.

A (22:13)

And with that, we gotta park the boat because, hey, this is an absolutely great interview. We've been Talking today with David Newman, csp, the author of multiple books. But the book we're talking about today, Market Eminence. It's available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook formats. Hey, you can order wherever books are sold. Amazon, Apple Books, Google, it's wherever they are. In addition, David offers custom playbook development, strategic work sessions and keynote speeches on Market Eminence. Because again, he's the guy you got to talk to. Where do you go? You go to his website, do it marketing.com or by email@davidoitmarketing.com how did I do that for finishing you off?

B (22:53)

That was great. But there's also all kinds of free bonuses, companion tools and downloads@market eminence.com so if folks want the general empire, that is doitmarketing.com but free resources tied to our conversation today, marketeminence.com is where to check it out.

A (23:12)

Hey, always enjoy talking with you, David. David Newman, Market Eminence. You got to get the book with that. We want to say thank you for listening to the Sales Hunter podcast. My name is Mark Hunter, the sales center. Well, because you know that. Why do we do the podcast? It's to bring you people like David Newman, experts who are going to help you sell. Because our goal is to help you see and achieve what you didn't think was possible so you can help your customers do the same thing. Do me a favor, would you leave me a review on your favorite podcast app and share it with others? And hey, join us. Two episodes a week, one like this subject matter expert, second episode every Monday morning with me. Just sharing a solo topic, diving deep. Thank you, David, for being on the show. Great selling.