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- [00:01]
A
You're listening to the Sales Hunter podcast. My name is Mark Hunter, the sales hunter in the studio today, Ross Bernstein. He is the author of nearly 50 books. And let me tell you something, this man knows how to hustle. This man knows how to sell. This man knows how to make it happen. If you haven't met him, oh, you're in for a treat. And the show begins right now.
- [00:21]
B
You're listening to the Sales Hunter podcast with Mark Hunter, where the focus is to help you as a salesman, sell with confidence and integrity. Now here's your host.
- [00:36]
A
If you're ever afraid of picking up the phone and making the call, this gentleman is going to get you over it. Welcome to the stage, Ross Bernstein.
- [00:45]
B
Mark, how are you, my friend?
- [00:47]
A
It is great. And as you said in the green room, you're a longtime listener, first time caller, so it's great to finally have you on the show. Hey, here's the thing. You've written nearly 50 books. In fact, you said in the green room that you've actually written more than 50, but some got canceled due to circumstances. We won't go down that path. But you, you speak all over the country, all over the world. You are an assessment person on the phone. Give salespeople a little piece of advice.
- [01:15]
B
Well, first, I just want to say full disclosure. Mark and I are good friends. I love you. I think the world of you. You are one of the smartest, most hard working, awesome humans in the world. And I, I just, I love you, brother. So this is really cool for me to be on beyond with you. But so, so first of all, just thank you.
- [01:32]
A
That was not a pa.
- [01:36]
B
So. Well, you know, I'm, I'm like you, Mark. I'm, I'm old school. I still, I still pound the phones. I, I have a theory. If I get an inquiry for speaking and you know, I, I don't return emails with emails. I return emails with phone calls. I might jump on.
- [01:53]
A
Hold it. That's a mic drop moment. You don't return emails with emails. You return emails with phone calls. That is a game changer.
- [02:01]
B
Yeah, well, and I have a theory. So, you know, if, if I get an email and it's an inquiry, I, I think a lot of this business is speed. Like, you don't have to be the best times, you just got to be the speediest. Because when people are looking, they're looking and if the first one to get back to them, sometimes they just want to, they just want to close that deal. And, but if I get a, an email, you Know, I'll try and research. Research them quickly and try and connect the dots. Who have I spoken to in this industry or space? Or who do I know to be able to establish a quick relationship or credibility? But I'll call them, and I have a theory if they answer and if. And not necessarily on that call, but maybe if I try again and like you, if I do a few tricks, maybe block the call id, maybe call two minutes for the top of the hour, maybe they're expecting a call. It's a private call. I have two phone lines on my iPhone. You try a few different tricks to get through. And if they answer, I think I've got, you know, 60, 70% chance of closing the deal quickly. If they don't answer, I think that number goes down to 20 or 30. And you know that. And that speaks to whether they may be a millennial Gen Z meeting planner or person that just doesn't want to talk on the phone, or maybe they're as comfortable as you and I were. Um, it's interesting, though, but I think when, you know, when you become commoditized and they just say, what's your fee? Are you available? You're just lumping yourself in with a million other people. I want them to hear how excited I am. I want them to hear what I'm going to do for them. I want them to hear my emotions and how this is part of the experience, the Ross package. Right. You're going to get all this, and this is way better than the other people you're looking at. And I think if you can differentiate yourself that way by having that, then I think that's a huge differentiator.
- [03:54]
A
Okay, I want to stop right there for a moment, because regardless of what you sell, what Ross just shared is absolutely valuable for several reasons, because again, you put yourself into the call. Your emotion, your whole. You are. You can't do that in an email.
- [04:09]
B
You can't.
- [04:09]
A
You got to do that on. On the phone. And I think, yeah. Hey, I don't know if you've noticed the world is kind of busy out there. There's a lot of noise out there. And if we can create an authentic relationship, which we can on the phone, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [04:24]
B
Now, if they. If they don't, you know, if you. If you can't get a hold of them, I'll. I'll keep trying. Sometimes you get those people that'll ghost you, and sometimes you got to get creative, and maybe that's a. A text or a LinkedIn message or, you know, I've seen other people do it. I don't do it, Mark, but I've seen other people that. I think it's been successful in some regards. And some people will send a little video, maybe through via text so they can at least see their face and hear their voice. That's something I probably need to start doing to connect with some of those younger decision makers. I still haven't, but it's definitely getting harder to, to connect with people. And you just, you never know. I had a couple, a couple people in the last week or two where they had reached out a month or two ago and had a, Sent an inquiry saying, hey, we'd love to have you come speak at our sales conference or leadership conference. And you try and get back to them, send a meme, you know, they don't answer. You send the emails, you wait, maybe you follow up and just crickets. And you figure, well, they probably found someone else. I don't want to hound them. I don't like, I don't like being that guy either. But then all of a sudden they get back to you. They're like, hey, I, I've been really busy. Sorry to get back to you. Let's talk. So you just, you know, you never know. But the thing in this business, you know, I, I speak like you over 100 times a year. And for every gig I book speaking engagement, you know, I probably lose 10, and I probably only know about a couple of them where I was maybe a finalist. I lost one to you recently up here in Minneapolis, but we got together for, we got together for dinner, which is great. But, you know, that's just how it is. You know, some people just, you're not the right fit. You know my message, I, I'm a sports person. I talk, I tie sports to business. Some people, that's just not a part of their theme or whatever, but I always try and connect it to that. It's pretty general. I've been able to speak in all seven continents because it's a pretty universal topic. But sometimes you just have to accept the fact that you might not be the best fit. If that's the case, I want to be a resource for them. So I'll say, great, I totally understand I'm not the great fit for you. I hope you have an amazing conference. In the meantime, who can I recommend for you? I've got a lot of friends and let me be a good resource for you and, and I love to follow up next year, you know. No, doesn't mean no. No means let's try next year. And you know, like you, I. I book gigs sometimes five, six, seven, eight years down the line. Because now it's the right fit. Now there's a board or a meeting professional or a VP of sales who says, I'm a huge sports fan. I read one of your books. Let's. Let's talk. So you just never know. Right?
- [07:00]
A
Okay, again, you've said so many things that apply to anybody in sales, because again, you stayed in the game. You stay in the game, you create a relationship, and if you can help them out by connecting them with somebody else, great. You've still made a friend, you created a relationship. And it's amazing how people do talk about people who they like, and if you. Even if they don't choose you, they go, you know, in some other direction, shame on them. They're still going to think kindly of you. They're going to think highly of you. And chances are, well, you don't.
- [07:33]
B
And you don't sound. You don't sound too desperate and needy and pathetic. Right. Which is a big part of it. Right. You want to create supply and demand. Like, you know that. That's the thing. Like, I, I love putting holds on my calendar, and I'll put my own hold on my calendar. If I talk to someone and I know the date of their event we're connecting, gives me a reason to follow up, you know, I. I'm busy. And they're. They're going to see my LinkedIn and they're going to see proof that I'm one of the busier speakers on the circuit. So if they want me to lock in that date, then we need to create a sense of urgency and scarcity. Right? Yeah. Like, my calendar's full. So listen, if I'm. If you can't make a decision now, that's cool. Let me recommend someone else. But I need to know. I've got to make other plans. I've got other clients interested in these dates. So it's like, you've got to be able to create that, that whole aura of we need to either do business or we need to move on. Either way, that's okay. But I think if you're just always available and then that. That's a bad message as well.
- [08:31]
A
It is a bad message because do customers want to work with people who are sitting around with nothing?
- [08:37]
B
Right. Right.
- [08:38]
A
No.
- [08:39]
B
Right.
- [08:39]
A
They want to work with the best, whatever industry, whatever it is that they're buying. And so you as a salesperson. I want to be speedy. Speedy to return the call. Just like you. I mean it. Speed. You can't return a call fast enough. But then you've got to be able to, they've got to realize that, yeah, what they're dealing with is a premium person, premium product. And it's going to be a premium experience. And that is something that I think you do well.
- [09:05]
B
Thank you.
- [09:06]
A
In the whole sales buying process, you create a premium experience the way you customize, because you customize every element along the way. Talk to the audience about how you've really adapted that and how that applies to sales.
- [09:22]
B
Thanks. Well, I, you know, first of all, I think like you, Mark, I think to be an expert, to be a thought leader, you have to do research. And that's something that you do. You know, you, you pride yourself on, on doing that through your consulting, coaching, speaking, all the research that you do. And you know, I've written 50 books, I've, I've interviewed thousands of professional athletes. I'm a member of the media. I get access to be in the locker room, in the, the press box. It's my passion. I love it. I'd be doing it E. I get a chance to meet and interview people. So I do my own research. It's not a double blind research of 100 people, 4 to 5 dentists, survey degree that, you know, 89% of people agree, you know, that this, that or the other. It's me doing my own proprietary research to truly be a thought leader. But if I, you know, I speak in every industry, whether it's pharmaceutical or medical device or franchise or wealth management or financial services, I mean, you and I work in any and every industry. I'm not an expert in those things, but I got to learn. So one of the things I really want to do is try and interview some people who are in the industry who are going to be at that conference. And I'll try and take pictures and I'll work those pictures into my program and say I always take the approach that I'm a fish out of water. And I'm going to be like, wow, I got to speak at this huge plastics conference in New Zealand. And this is what I learned and I kind of share that back in a fun self deprecating way of look at. But I'll try and always make the people the champion of my speech. Like, hey, I was able to interview this person and they took me out on their dairy farm and we got to do these things. And look at, it was so cool. Like here I am in a tractor and to bring people along in that journey and then to really brag about them and something cool, a great story that maybe something they did to win a new customer, something they did to overcome disruption or a big challenge or some tariff situation or regulatory compliance situation or something, and try and make them look like the hero. And I think people love that. You know, make other people look great. But to, you know, you can't just show up and do a canned presentation. You know, whether you're in any industry, I see people, you know, a lot in, like life insurance or wealth management. You'll see a lot of the broker dealers or wholesalers, Sometimes they'll come in and they'll, they'll do the pitch right. You've got that kind of, you know, that canned PowerPoint where they've kind of. And it's like, you know, you gotta, you gotta judge it up. You gotta mix things up. And, you know, sometimes I tell people, if you've learned nothing from this presentation, it's just how to run a clean PowerPoint, right? It just could be a picture and you're, you're telling a great story. People love storytellers and that, you know, that's what you and I do, Mark.
- [12:01]
A
Hey, Ross, one of the things you do a lot is customize. You customize your phone calls, you customize everything to create a really intimate relationship. Tell salespeople the strategies that you use and some tips that they can use.
- [12:14]
B
Well, Mark, like, like you, I, you know, we both do research, and I think to truly be, you know, considered as a thought leader or an expert, you've got to do your own proprietary research. You can't just regurgitate other people's research or use other, other people's information or just even a basic survey, you know, So I, I've written 50 sports books, I've interviewed thousands of athletes, and I'm a member of the media, so I get to be in the locker room, in the press box and the dugout. And I love interviewing athletes and coaches, which becomes the source of my research, along with the companies that I work with. And that's what you do as well as you're always trying to learn. So in our world as professional speakers, I want to learn. I speak in every industry, so I need to learn and educate myself. So I will oftentimes go out and interview people and I'll. And I'll include them in my presentation. I'll do, maybe do a vignette on extraordinary customer experiences, and maybe I'll interview someone. Could Be someone in any industry, medical device, pharma, agribusiness, franchise, wealth management. But I want to be able to kind of be a fish out of water and tell the crowd what I learned from that person and really make them look like the hero in the process, which I think people appreciate. I don't want to be the expert, you know, and I don't want to tell people I'm an expert in AI, but I need to know about AI. So I'll say, well, I don't really know about AI, but I can tell you, here's what a few of my huge billion dollar clients that I work with, how their strategy about AI. So at least even if you don't know, to be able to be a great knowledge base of saying, well, here's some practical wisdom on how other people can apply it. But if you're just going in, doing a canned presentation, same old PowerPoint. I mean, if anything, I tell people sometimes look at my PowerPoint, it's just, you know, it's pictures, big words, it's not super fancy, you don't need it. Just put up a picture and tell a story. You know, people read the PowerPoint, it's like death. You know, you're reading that spreadsheet, it doesn't need to be like that. So I think the customization with pictures that you can take on the fly to include people in the audience, that's a huge thing.
- [14:18]
A
I think throughout the entire sales process, the ability to craft a story, to tell the story and like you do, because again, and what you're doing is you're making them be the hero.
- [14:28]
B
Right?
- [14:29]
A
It's not about you. And I think there's something else that you really say, and I hold you in high regard. You're very humble, you have a very strong sense of humility. And again, think about people who, who do you want to associate with people who are braggards or people who are humble? It's people like you.
- [14:48]
B
Yeah, well, thank you. And I do. I'm not, you know, I'm one of the only really celebrity sports speakers where I'm not the hero of my story. And that's why most professional athletes fail in this business because it's the Me show. And the reality is nobody really cares about you. They really care about the message of how they can sell more products so they can take their family on a vacation or do things they're more passionate about. So when I tell stories about me and, and I do in some, some things, experiences, it's usually massive failures because I think that's what people can connect with, right? If you want to connect with someone, don't tell them how great you are. Tell them how bad you bombed. That's how you connect. Not everyone connects to greatness, but they can connect to those people who go through adversity. We all share stories of how bad we've lost out a gig or do whatever, and you wear it as a badge of honor. I mean, if you're not great in sales, you gotta have pretty thick skin. You're gonna go through a lot of loss and failure, and that's okay. You learn and you move on. And I want to be a cheerleader for my buddies. Like, if you beat me for a gig, I'm happy for you. It's like, that's awesome. Lunch is on you. Right? We're gon. They'll come around. Go around. And you and I give each other referrals. Even though you and I are direct competitors with each other, we help each other. And I think that's another thing for people to think about, too, is just the laws of karma. Like, we're. You know, we have a saying in an association that you and I belong to called the National Speakers association called Abundant Generosity. We're not frightened of a little piece of pie. We want to work together to make the whole damn pie bigger. If I'm not a great fit, bring in my buddy Mark. He'll be amazing, Right? It's just we help each other. We share.
- [16:22]
A
I love that. And this is what top performing people do. It. It's. It's abundance, not scarcity. I see average and low performers. They play this scarcity role, and that's right. Begin to get desperate talking to the client. They begin to get desperate. And then what happens is they begin to turn the focus on themselves because they're trying to elevate themselves to make sure that the customer sees that they're good. And in so doing, they really step all over themselves. It is about putting the customer first. There was something else that you said there because you said you do a deep amount of research regardless. And I think that's the other problem that so many people get into is what I call assumptive knowledge. We just assume. We just assume. And you really go deep in really trying to understand what's happening out there. Hey, we got to wrap the show up here in just a couple of minutes. But if you were to say to somebody in sales, what would be. What would be two or three sales tips that you would share with them that they need to run with and.
- [17:21]
B
Do well, I think one would be getting a LinkedIn strategy that works for you. So many people send out garbage on LinkedIn or they send you a connection, then they try and immediately try and jump on and sell you something. I unfriend you immediately. I hate that. I use LinkedIn to honor, acknowledge and thank my clients. So I make it all about them. And then I might go through afterwards and look at a great post that they got a lot of great analytics and I might send someone a little note on the side saying, hey, maybe it's a past client, maybe it's someone new. And because in my post I'll tag the VP or the CEO, thanking them, talking about how amazing they are and their company is, and they're going to respond and say, you were great. No, you were great. Right. It's that whole humble approach. Maybe someone in the industry who they're connected to checks out my profile or likes that, that LinkedIn post. Well, I might go to their message and say, hey, I saw your, your face pop up on my LinkedIn. I'd love to connect. Nothing salesy, but they're kind of busted. Sometimes they'll respond or they'll say, you know, we have a conference coming up and it looked like you had really good engagement with this company. We're in a similar space. Or I might use as an opportunity to say, you know, we haven't worked together for several years. I've got a new program. I'd love to, I'd love to reconnect. I hope you're doing well. Nothing really salesy, but just sort of an opportunity to kind of say, hey, I saw you. Right. And I mean, there's other ways to use it. Hey, I saw an article that might. But I think using LinkedIn as a strategy to, to help people or to use it in that regard would be, would be a great, a great way to, to think differently about sales.
- [18:58]
A
I love that. And, and, and again, you're carrying the strategy of you're elevating others around you.
- [19:03]
B
Yeah.
- [19:04]
A
And a rising tide lifts all boats. And I love that. That, that's just, that's that is your key. You elevate everyone around you. How do people get in touch with you?
- [19:13]
B
You know, I'm on LinkedIn. I've got a website, RossBernstein.com otherwise I'm just out there doing my thing. But I'm such a fan of yours and so honored to be on your podcast. Mark Hunter, I love you. You are just a wonderful human dad. Grandpa. Sales professional. I'm one of your biggest fans. And to all your listeners tuning in in our industry, Mark is one of the most respected, well liked, amazing, thoughtful humans. And I just want you all to know that it's awkward. It's awkward. But I believe. But I believe it. You. I just love you, buddy.
- [19:55]
A
Well, thank you so much. Hey, you've been listening to the Sales Hunter podcast. Ross Bernstein has been my guest today. Look him up on LinkedIn. And Ross, spell your last name just in case people don't quite get it right.
- [20:09]
B
Bernstein. B E R N S T E.
- [20:11]
A
I N. There you go. It's pretty simple, pretty easy, and of course, almost 50 sport, most of them sports books. But they are absolutely some outstanding books out there. Anyway, hey, the Sales Hunter podcast, what is it? Two episodes a week, one like this, where we do a deep dive with a subject matter expert. Second episode comes out every Monday morning where we focus in on one single topic. It's my ability just to get you fired up for the week. The podcast is to help you see and achieve what you didn't think was possible. Do me a favor, leave me a review on your favorite podcast app, would you? And share the podcast with a friend. I'm Mark Hunter, the Sales Hunter. Great selling.