← The School of Greatness
The School of Greatness
Gene Simmons Opens Up: Coming To America With Nothing, The Mindset That Built An Empire & The Man Behind The Makeup
00:57:12
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- [00:00]
A
Did you ever doubt yourself?
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B
Oh, hell no. I know that I'm not the best looking guy in the world or the smartest or anything, but I will walk into any room and I will walk out with your girlfriend with no doubt in my mind.
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A
Simmons and Kiss revolutionized rock in the 1970s and 80s.
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B
One of the most influential rock bands of all time. 30 gold records, 14 platinum records.
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A
Kiss, Gene Simmons.
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B
Don't ever take from anybody. Just roll up your sleeves and go to work.
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A
Wow.
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B
What do all great champions do? They psych themselves up. I'm gonna win it. I am the champion. I am the greatest. I heard Muhammad Ali doing that. I never heard a human being talk like that publicly. Like, who is this guy? Actually, he was stating fact. It's our problem that we thought, well, you're not supposed to say that. Why not? Why not set greatness in front of you and then work towards achieving it?
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A
Yeah, that's true. What have you learned about that? You wish everyone knew.
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B
If you become famous.
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A
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A
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- [02:15]
A
And I heard an interesting story or a very powerful story that when you're. When you and your mother were trying to get to America and trying to come here and migrate to America, what was the lesson you learned from your mom and the courage to get over?
- [02:32]
B
My father had gone, so the provider was no longer there because my mother stayed at home while he worked. So once my father left, my mother was forced to go out there and, you know, while I went to school. So when I come home from school at 3, 4, whatever it is, in the afternoon, I was alone at 6. 7 years of age and, you know, would cry myself to sleep because my mother would work until late at night. Six days out of the week. There was no such thing as five days, two way, two days off. And in Israel, it's the Sabbath Saturday that you take off Sunday you go right back to work from 6am until, oh, 7, 7:30pm and so both of my mother's brothers became successful in America.
- [03:28]
A
They already came to America.
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B
Yes, right before World War II. My mother and my father went to Israel, 1949, and both brothers had already started working in America. And the stories I could tell you about my Uncle George until the day he passed, he loved Wonder Bread. In those days, you could. For 29 cents, you could buy a whole loaf. He would buy a whole loaf with water and sit in a park bench in Central Park. And to him it was like eating cake from kings. He would just eat the bread and drink water because you didn't have it. In Europe. There was barely any. The fact that he could eat an entire loaf of bread by himself and nobody would kill him to get a slice of bread was a. Was beyond anything because Europe never really recovered from the 1929 stock market crash. People were killing each other all the time. And in concentration camps, if you had a loaf of bread, they'd kill you for that. It's a different world in America, the land of plenty. Even During World War II, people ate, you know, we grew wheat. So.
- [04:39]
A
So her brothers were already here and successful. So she said. They said, hey, you come over and stay with us.
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B
That's exactly right.
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A
And was it that easy to kind of, you know, leave the country at that time?
- [04:53]
B
So when my mother came to America, she. She had to work, you know, the whole time. And I was. I remember going into my Uncle Larry's house and they had their own house with a basement and stuff. I mean, I just couldn't. And you'd look out the door and there were paved streets and cars going everywhere, and people were fat. And I never saw a refrigerator. We had a box. And if you had a piece of ice, you'd stuck it in there. So you can have milk, by the way, not branded. They'd give you a sheet of newspaper and your week's piece of meat and your week's butter and your. But that it was a new country, there was nothing. There are no stores. People can't fathom that. I remember all that and I remember just everything was new. You know, you have branding cups and, and canned food. I never saw canned food until I got our first Till we got our first care package from the UN and we opened up the box and there was a. I get choked up when I. And there was a can of peaches. And I never saw a can. I know people are going to think, well, he's exaggerating. No, I never saw a can of food. There were no supermarkets or grocery stores, nothing. You lived in hills. And I remember taking the can, and they were a full color picture of peaches dripping, you know, with stuff. And I remember at about 7 years of age looking at it, and my mother, you know, grabbed it out of my hand, and she took a big rock. There's no such thing as can openers. And she put it on the ground and, you know, banged into it and then peeled back, you know, the metal. So the sharp stuff was going there. And she gave it into my hands, and my little hands grabbed it. And I looked and saw the yellow peaches inside. And my mother said, you know, in Hungarian, because I spoke Hungarian, Hebrew, Turkish, Spanish and those stuff. And I remember tasting it and I sorry, I'm getting a little clamped here. Never tasted anything. I still. I still taste it. Never tasted anything so sweet or anything. And I wanted to show my mother, and she was like, we were just amazed at this thing. And. And the fact that this. And it also had a Bugs Bunny book colored with he's going down the road and all that. I didn't. Never heard of Bugs Bunny. And a sweater that was all torn. My mother put it on me and it was all, you know, too big, but it was colorful and all that. And my mother would read me the same Bugs Bunny book every night, but she had to make up the words in Hungarian because she couldn't speak Hebrew and the words were in English. So she'd make it up and I'd just look at the pictures and I'd go to sleep with that. And as a matter of fact, Mel Blanc, a Jew, who did all the voices for all the warrants, see what did there, who did all the voices with Daffy Duck and Melton, all Elmer Fudd told him the story. And he said that, that is. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to do these voices for the children whose lives are changing. And which is why as soon as I got some money, I. I made sure that took a bunch of money and sent it to Kids in Need, originally through the Christian Child Fund and then became the Child Fund. And I. To this, they support 1400 kids in Africa who, if they don't go to school, won't get clothes and won't get fed. That means you'll starve, because there's nothing there. Zambia. You come to school, you get fed and stuff. So it teaches you that school has it. So I got lost. And what was the question?
- [08:58]
A
Well, really about, like, your experience when you got to America. You never saw anything like this before. You never experienced the taste, the foods, the. The refrigerator, all these things.
- [09:08]
B
I. I was in the kitchen with my Aunt Magda, who herself survived the camps and had some problems. And she married my Uncle Larry, who was my mother's brother. And we go into the kitchen because there was always another room. There were bedrooms like a palace, you can't believe. And there's this big white box or something and a metal thing. And my Aunt Magda opened it, and I was. You know, I was a little kid. I never saw anything like it. And it's just food. There's wrappers and food and cheese and things. And on the side. I'll never forget it. My Aunt Magda. I was attracted to the red because it was a jar of red. I later remembered it was Schmucker's. With a name like that, it's got to be good. Yep, it was Smucker's Jelly out of Ohio.
- [10:02]
A
Yeah.
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B
And my mother said to me in Hungarian, you know, have some. And my Aunt Magda opened the can. I'd never seen that before. You don't understand. In Israel, they'd give you a slab of whatever, butter, never jelly, and that would be it for the week. You'd have to make it. There was no refrigeration or anything. So my Aunt Magda gave me a spoon, and in broken Hebrew, she must have said, taste it, because she was fascinated that I didn't. Wasn't quite sure what it was. I'm only halting because if you weren't here, I'd start bawling. And I thought she said, eat it, because she gave me a spoon. So I started like a Christmas goose. I just started my mouth full of jam with the jam falling all over, you know, just eating it, because I never tasted anything like that, the entire jar. And both my mother and my Aunt Magda were laughing so much. You know, they were in tears. And I didn't know what was going on. I was just. That this is the best thing I ever had. And America just kept. And then I was afraid of crossing. I still have the marbles. I was afraid of crossing the street because cars were going by. You know, people cross. I didn't understand it. So I Walked around the block, and I saw other houses next to each other. I said, this is like, where are all these houses? These are. This. Everybody's rich. Yeah, everybody's rich. And I went to the other side of the street, and then I had to come back and went a little further. Then eventually went around. I thought if I went around, I'd get lost. I didn't know that. Came around to this. I know it sounds.
- [11:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
And on the other side, eventually, I saw some guys playing marbles on the grass, which would be. I don't know if you have a marble or something and they're throwing it like this. It's not what we did in Israel. You stood up on two legs and you went like that. And you get really good because you can aim it on the ground. If you do the marbles like that, you know, the ground would make the marble nothing. And what are you, stupid? Can't you speak English? Yeah, I know. I don't know. God is an idiot. I play, I play. They go, yeah, here they gave me a marble or two. I won all their marbles. They didn't last for long. Yeah, I still have all the marbles I want. About 80 of them. Really? In an old Dutch master's cigar box. That's cool to remind me. Don't ever take shit from anybody. Just roll up your sleeves and go to work.
- [12:50]
A
Wow.
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B
Make them work for you.
- [12:51]
A
How did that make you feel, though, when you didn't speak the language, you didn't have any friends when you came to Americ in this new world, how did that make you feel? Were you more excited or more scared?
- [13:01]
B
I've never been scared, not after my mother survived Nazi Germany. But I've always felt like an outsider. I still don't feel like an outsider. Maybe that's okay. Maybe I want to be like everybody else. I want to be an ordinary guy. No, I don't want to be an ordinary guy. I want to be an extraordinary guy. I want to excel at anything that I try to do. And I'm willing to work harder than you do. And the only thing that prevented me from getting into sports and everything else is because the pragmatism in me tells me that you've got a short life when you enter sports or things like that. If you get an ankle, you're done. But I can be a banker or a lawyer or a teacher thing forever. It made more sense and therefore more dollars. Yes, if you're lucky. Because every kid in every poor neighborhood wants to be the baseball player. Or the football player and stuff like that. Because 50 million Carmelo Anthony made. And for a while I worked with Carmel. They make all this money. You don't see the tens of thousands and millions of carcasses on the side of the road that wanted to this and put all their eggs in one basket and achieve nothing. You only see, you know, the tip of the ice, people. Yeah, yeah. The winners. Oh, that means anybody can do it. That's a fallacy.
- [14:23]
A
When you. So when did music start to come into your life? Because I heard a story that you saw the Beatles on TV when you were 13. Was music something you were interested in before then? Or did that open your mind to a world of, oh, dreaming that maybe I could be this one day?
- [14:39]
B
I didn't put the 2 and 2 equals 4 thing together. I was more an observer on life. Because in America there was so many attention deficit disorders, so many different things going by. There was sports and.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And television and radio and all that stuff going by. And so I worked. And when I was about 13, I came home. Yes, I worked on Sundays and Sunday nights. I'm pretty sure it was the Ed Sullivan show. Unlike any show that's ever been on TV at that time. In 1960, population of America was 170 million people. About that. Now it's double that. It's 330 million. And that. And the Ed Sullivan show was so big. They had pooping elephants and comedians and puppet guys and, you know, one rock band for the kids. And I remember coming home from work and my mother got one of those TV dinners. People have no idea what that is, but you buy them frozen because poor mom had to go work. She could. And it was like this kind of like old shoes crunched into like burgers, peas and some mashed potatoes and you pour the gravy and that was it. And I didn't know anything. I liked it. So I was eating it and ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles. And I'm going, what is that? And by the way, I met the biggest stars in the world, you know, especially musicians. And they all point to that pivotal moment. Scientists call it a singularity. All of a sudden, these feminine looking guys with hair over their ears, because in those days, even shorter than your hair, you'd see the meat between the ear and the hairline above it. Or like crew cuts and these guys talk like that. Here I work my fingers to the bell and all that, like, oh, what is that? And they're small compared to Ed Sullivan and everything, you know, kind of feminine in A way, because Americans were bigger and. And fatter and stuff. And these guys were all, you know, like, bone thin and spoke strangely. I didn't understand. I was watching and I thought, gee, they look weird. And I remember my mother coming in and saying, gee, I think they look weird. And bango. At that moment I said, no, they're cool, because my mother thinks they're weird. You want your own thing you don't want to do Lawrence Welk. You never heard of Lawrence Welk? Oh, my God. Kill me now.
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A
Oh, man.
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B
Lawrence Welk was on every Sunday and it was mom and dad music.
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A
Okay. Gotcha boy.
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B
And now we're going to do the polka. Yeah.
- [17:30]
A
So since your mom said it was weird and you're like, that's cool then, right?
- [17:35]
B
Huh? And. But.
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A
And it's different. And different is. Is better than good. Yeah, different is good. But you were. I mean, you're a branding and marketing genius when it comes with.
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B
That's like, word. Genius is not right. I've been careful. So I. I win.
- [17:50]
A
Well, you've been a branding and marketing master at studying and executing it. Yeah, at studying and executing how to brand yourself. I mean, your book, Me Inc. You built a personal brand before personal branding was a thing you studied how to be unique and different from seeing the Beatles and other people, I'm assuming, and.
- [18:11]
B
Well, more specifically, how to be Disney without the overhead. But it's not as difficult as people think it is because unlike other countries, all information is available for free to anyone who wants to put in the time. And it's the house of God, otherwise known as the library. Don't forget that second R in the middle. It's not liberry, it's library. And I used to go to the library every day. After yeshiva, I was studying to be a rabbi, but then I discovered girls, so I was in school. Yeshiva, which means the city the whole day. And afterwards, I'd go to the library, which was only a few blocks down. And I'm the only guy I've ever met or talked to who's actually read the Encyclopedia Britannica cover to cover. I am the corniest, most boring guy at a party.
- [19:08]
A
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B
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B
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- [21:44]
A
When did you feel like you were able to really monetize the artistic gift that you were developing? Take it more either in the country, globally. Like when did that start to happen? You said, oh, this is more than just weekend parties.
- [21:59]
B
And yeah, in 19 even during college I went to the State University Upstate New York, took out my own bank loan, paid for it myself and all that. So afternoons I'd be the lifeguard at the Pines Hotel up in the Catskill Mountains, otherwise called the Jewish Mountains Literally, because every weekend you'd have Jay Lewis there and like all these guys, Milton Berle. And so I worked right after I'd finished classes and I'd go make some more money. And on the weekends, the Wicked. Not wicked Lester, but what was it called? Bullfrog Beer. That was the college band. And we played covers and some of my original songs, which by then I learned how to write my own songs. Not very good. Two of them or so wound up being Kiss songs. And during one weekend, I'd make more money with the band having fun with the chicks and the attention and all that than I would the whole week working. It started to make more financial sense. Yes. And more fun. And then graduated 1972 from the state City University at Richmond College and started teaching 6th grade in Spanish Harlem. Segue to being the assistant to the editor of Vogue magazine, assistant to the director of the Puerto Rican Interagency Council, a government funded research and demonstration project where I saved $23,000 by the time I was 23 years of age. I lived at home. Makes more sense. You want to meet a Jacob, go to the Holiday Inn.
- [23:53]
A
Otherwise, save your money. Yeah, save your money.
- [23:57]
B
Lived at home when I didn't need to spend money, but of course I contributed a little bit. And I met another guy who shared the love of English music, which is really American music. Anglicized. We were Anglophiles, the Beatles and the Stones and Zeppelin and, you know, all that. And made our own pastiche, our own thing, like they did their own thing of American music. And by 19, 1973, we got signed to Casablanca Records, a new record label.
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A
How old were you this time? Roughly? Just after college.
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B
3.
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A
Okay.
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B
22.
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A
And this wasn't. Was this called Kiss at the time or no?
- [24:49]
B
Yes, it was. We became Kiss.
- [24:52]
A
And you're doing. You got signed, but how big were the venues where you were playing before you got signed?
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B
We played hot people from nothing to everything. Really? Yes. We played New Year's Eve, fourth on the bill, at the Academy of Music in New York City, 1973-74. And two months after that, the first album came out. We were fourth on the bill. Kiss, Teenage Lost, which was a local band, Iggy Pop and Blue Oyster Cult. And on the first, by the third song, I'm Spitting Fire, they were full makeup, My Hair Catches Fire and we're on the covers of all the magazines and everything. New band from Hellfire and, you know, all this kind of stuff. I was just glad to be alive. But within a year and a half of Coming out before mtv, before cell phones, we had still rotary calls. Superman was still going into that booth and changing. Of course, people can't see him taking off his pants because he's in a fomo. While all this was happening, within a year and a half, we're headlining Anaheim Stadium in Los Angeles.
- [26:02]
A
Wow.
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B
Yeah, just that overnight thing. We had no hit singles. Nothing. Really. Yes. It became what the Germans called Zeitgeist, the Water Cooler Conversation. The way you spread your brand in those days were rock magazines, Circus and Raves and all these colorful magazines that had posters. And we were always on the COVID because the rest of the band's just boring. Yeah, they're not visual. So our brand and people, you know, the fans, we started selling out multiple days in arenas before we even had a gold record. And we passed backwards.
- [26:44]
A
So you guys developed a brand almost before you developed the music.
- [26:47]
B
That's right.
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A
It's like the. You were like, let's create. Create the image of us. Let's create the Persona.
- [26:52]
B
You're giving us too much credit. We didn't know anything.
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A
You weren't thinking about it.
- [26:57]
B
No.
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A
But that's what happened.
- [26:58]
B
You were just rock and roll gypsies.
- [27:00]
A
Right.
- [27:00]
B
You were glad you didn't have to do nine to five, Right. And be in the same cubicle doing the same thing.
- [27:07]
A
That's interesting. Did you intentionally think about let's Be so Different so that people pay attention, or were you just like, let's have fun and just be playful? Or how did this character develop?
- [27:18]
B
None of that. Scientists either call it a singularity or an anomaly. We were rehearsing, doing these songs that Paul Stanley and I wrote. Stanley Eisen. Oh, Eisenberger. And I started writing, and then Ace Fraley contributed a song or two. And as we're heard, you know, this kind of sounds pretty good. And we had Peter Chris on drums, and everybody could sing, Everybody could play. And then instead of doing a market analysis or anything, I recall clearly, because I never got hired drunk. One of us, and I can't tell you who, said, let's go down to Woolworths, which was like a department store, and it was around Halloween, I believe. And they had a lot of gimmicky things like plastic ice cubes with fake flies in the middle that you could stick in your girlfriend's drinks. And she'd go, yeah. You know. Or whoopee cushions. You know what a whoopee cushion is?
- [28:19]
A
Yeah, yeah. Sit on it and make parts. Yeah, yeah.
- [28:23]
B
And we went down there and said, let's buy Clown makeup. And we literally, almost like our hands were being directed, bought Stein's clown white, Stein's clown black, black stick. Paul bought red lipstick, a few other things. And we went up to the rat infested loft where we rehearsed and found ourselves hypnotically looking in the mirror and putting on makeup without anybody telling anybody what to do or what to think or do. It just happened. It sounds suspicious. And then when we looked around the room, we were fascinated by. Wow, that kind of.
- [29:08]
A
Kind of school kind of looks different.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah, different kind of cool. So much so that. And because I'm kind of a. Make a list, check it twice, find out I'm that kind of a guy. Worked in offices all my life. There was no manager, so I was calling local gigs, clubs.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah.
- [29:29]
B
To try to get us. And then booked ourselves in for, I don't know, $35 a night to Coventry. And there was nobody there. We had my girlfriend, somebody else. There was like five people. Yeah.
- [29:40]
A
Yeah.
- [29:40]
B
But for us, we were at Madison Square Garden. And then the second show was at the Daisy in Amityville where they had Jaws and all that and the Amityville Horror and all that in Long Island. And shortly thereafter, we got signed. We barely played any shows.
- [30:07]
A
That's crazy to think about. And then a year and a half later, you're selling out arenas, breaking so.
- [30:14]
B
Much so that within two years of that, we're breaking the Beatles record in Japan and playing five days, I think, at the largest arena, Budokan. And before bands were playing stadiums, were doing multiple days in Australia in stadiums. 1980. 1980.
- [30:32]
A
Where do you think you'd be if you guys didn't put makeup on that first day?
- [30:37]
B
You mean if I wasn't in a band? Or would Kiss have done as well without the makeup?
- [30:42]
A
Without the makeup? Like, if you guys didn't go to that store and say, hey, let's start putting a makeup on. Where do you think the band would be if you never did it like that, but you just said, we're gonna go out there and play and wear cool, you know, jeans and look like rock stars, but not put on the makeup?
- [30:57]
B
Or the jeans are so boring. Like, if I'd have to. If I'd have to say, not as big. Really. You could ask the Beatles, what would you have gotten as far with the same songs and everything if you didn't have the matching haircuts? It's always pieces of the puzzle that somehow fit that make the whole bigger than the sum of its parts, which are fancy words that says all of it helps.
- [31:33]
A
It did. Yeah.
- [31:34]
B
And if you take, like a house of cards, if you take any one of those, it's just one card. Maybe all of it comes down.
- [31:41]
A
Interesting. It's so interesting to think about.
- [31:43]
B
I get tired a lot of money for this kind of stuff.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah. That's fascinating.
- [31:47]
B
I'm kind of a big deal.
- [31:48]
A
I know. I know you are. Now, when did it. When did you. Was there ever a moment in your career where you said early on where you said, I'm actually going to use. This is working. You know, wearing the makeup, putting on the outfits in this way. It's working. I'm going to make it a character. I'm going to make it an alter ego or.
- [32:10]
B
I was always aware that character was not the right thing. It's Persona.
- [32:14]
A
Persona, not alter ego or alter egos.
- [32:17]
B
And by the way, I know people get so upset when I keep bringing up the Jew stuff, but the idea of the alter ego was created by them also.
- [32:27]
A
Okay.
- [32:27]
B
All the superheroes, Superman, yes. Batman, the Hulk, Fantastic. Were all created by Jews who dress British. Think Yiddish. The idea of the weak man and the secret Superman. They're Ubermensch. Well, that's Nietzsche. And all created by disenfranchised people who never felt powerful. So the superhero was created by those guys who were never lifting weights, couldn't dribble a basketball, but they owned the teams.
- [33:04]
A
Yeah. Or they built the IP or whatever it might be. Yeah. Did you. So did you think about building the Persona or the alter ego as you were developing the. The band then?
- [33:14]
B
No. It happened very quickly. And you react to market. The smart people react to the market. And immediately we didn't think about it, but fans started to make homegrown T shirts. Oh, they want T shirt. Let's make T shirts. And they wanted. We were aware that if you were a. I don't know, or Joe Cocker fan or somebody, you didn't necessarily want to look like Joe Cocker. And Joe's a fantastic artist. It was music and somehow we would. We didn't plan it. We want to be unique and all that's true, but we didn't quite understand the cultural significance of the idea that you. You may not be able to be in Kiss, but you can feel like it. How many. How many more tennis rackets did we sell? Because people bought those and put on Kiss makeup and pretended when they were 13 that they were in a band. Because just as soon as you. And I'll show you photos of Lenny Kravitz when he was 13, like all down the line, these people going, what I do? He was kicked out of school for. At 13, coming to school dressed like that.
- [34:35]
A
That's interesting.
- [34:36]
B
But you wouldn't be kicked out of school for coming to school dressed like George Harrison. Right? Right.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah, but that's not cool.
- [34:45]
B
No, it is cool, but it doesn't. Doesn't get attached. Nothing negative I can say about the Beatles, but Mark, market research. Markets. Market research is a strange thing. It makes assessments based on the way things actually are.
- [35:04]
A
Yeah.
- [35:05]
B
So Mount Rushmore. You've heard of it? Could you tell me who the four faces are? Yes, I've been there. I mean, yeah, you've been there and you still don't.
- [35:14]
A
Washington. Yeah.
- [35:15]
B
It bears noting that market research says the four KISS faces are more well known on the entire planet than Mount Rushmore.
- [35:25]
A
That's great. That's great.
- [35:27]
B
You can go to Africa and as soon as they see one of the four faces, they say it's. It's Kiss.
- [35:31]
A
Yeah.
- [35:32]
B
If you show them one of the Mount Rushmore's faces, they wouldn't know what it was. Yeah.
- [35:36]
A
Yeah.
- [35:37]
B
That's astonishing, isn't it?
- [35:39]
A
It is.
- [35:41]
B
Location. The lab. Quentin only has 24 hours to sell his car. Is that even possible? He goes to Carvana.com.
- [35:49]
A
What is this, a movie trailer?
- [35:51]
B
He ignores the doubters, enters his license plate. Wow, that's a great offer. The car is sold, but will Carvana pick it up in time for.
- [36:00]
A
They'll literally pick it up tomorrow morning.
- [36:02]
B
Done with the dramatics.
- [36:04]
A
Car selling in record time. Save your time. Go to Carvana.com and sell your car today.
- [36:09]
B
Pick up these.
- [36:10]
A
May apply at Capella University. You can learn at your own pace with our Flexpath learning format. Take one or two courses at a time and complete as many as you can in a 12 week billing session with Flexpath. You can finish the Bachelor's degree you.
- [36:25]
B
Started in 19 months and under $19,000.
- [36:29]
A
A different future is closer than you.
- [36:31]
B
Think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.
- [36:35]
A
Edu fast as 25% of students.
- [36:38]
B
Cost varies by pace.
- [36:39]
A
Transfer credits and other factors. Fees apply. Did you feel like you were becoming a different person when you had stepped on stage in that. In that Persona? And what did that feeling, what was that feeling experience like for you on stage in that Persona versus Gene Simmons in life offstage?
- [37:00]
B
I was a regular, normal guy with regular appetites and you know, nothing out of the ordinary and never veered towards self destructive behavior. Never.
- [37:11]
A
I'm curious about how you started to brand Yourself even bigger. Because Kiss became something much bigger than a band. You know, after the first few years it was big, obviously. But for decades you elevated it to.
- [37:25]
B
I can't say you. It's not fair to Paul.
- [37:28]
A
The band elevated it's.
- [37:30]
B
Yes.
- [37:30]
A
Itself to another level.
- [37:31]
B
Because sometimes of course, an idea will come from left field and they go, why don't you. Yeah, you know, you're right. We should be doing that. So no matter who you are, how.
- [37:42]
A
Did you all decide to continue to elevate the brand or maximize the brand?
- [37:46]
B
Especially in light of the fact that times change, tastes change and different generations come into it. Cool is a moving target. So I give ourselves kudos to be able to be flexible and move around and do that stuff. As hair metal. Hair metal bands came in, thrash came in, new romance came like all through all the different things. So we started co branding like hello Kitty. It's one of the largest brands on the planet for young girls, for little girls. So Kiss. Hello Kitty had about 1500 CO licenses. Everything that's amazing. From training bras to tissue paper to potato chips, you name it. And then we co branded with Family Guy and the. And Archie. We had Kiss, Archie Comics and Astro Boy from Japan. And just a lot of.
- [38:57]
A
What was the biggest licensing deal that Kiss did? Kiss Beyond. Beyond the band. What was the biggest co branded or licensing deal? Yeah, or dlp.
- [39:08]
B
Yellow Kitty would probably really biggest. Yeah. Because we were endless. And then they changed CEOs. Actually the CEO flew into LA and we had dinner and he and I are sitting next to each other and we're talking about the future. Okay. We got to ramp up this. Clearly working and everything. And he said as soon as I get back to Japan on Monday, it was the weekend coming up, I'm going to draw papers and we're going to do some big, big, big stuff. And then he passed away and the new CEO just, you know, didn't see it. That's a bummer.
- [39:47]
A
Where is the. The biggest revenue come from these days then with the brand? Is it licensing? Is it still royalties? Is it still music?
- [39:56]
B
All of it music less because entire generations of fans don't pay for music. They download and voucher. Both of our kids, Nick and Sophie are massive on Spotify and Shmodify and all the other childlike words. Yahoo, Google and Sophie, for instance, as managers co writes. She's writing us co writing a song right now with the writer who wrote do you believe in love? You know, for Cher. What a small world. Yeah, it just.
- [40:39]
A
And she's no Small World. That's a Disneyland.
- [40:43]
B
It's a what?
- [40:43]
A
It's a Small World. That's a Disneyland.
- [40:46]
B
It's a Small world after all. As a matter of fact, I recorded when youn Wish Upon a Star for my solo record because of how emotionally Jiminy Cricket affected my life. I thought when that little insect in the movie goes Gene. When you wish upon. I thought he was singing to me. I was 12.
- [41:08]
A
Wow.
- [41:08]
B
I went out there like in a religious epiphany going, I can do great things because Jiminy, your dreams come true. I went, I can do it. And that's why I like if you're not a bad guy. That's why I like guys like you. Because sometimes some someplace in Wisconsin there's somebody who can. Who's. Who possibly might do great things. And the only thing holding himself back is himself. And if you can just light that little fire in the belly that you know, that puts the light on, they'll do amazing things.
- [41:48]
A
Yeah. Did you ever doubt yourself?
- [41:50]
B
No.
- [41:51]
A
Really?
- [41:51]
B
I couldn't afford it.
- [41:54]
A
So you never had any insecurity or self doubt?
- [41:57]
B
Oh, hell no. But I'm delusional. I am aware of it. I know that I'm not the best looking guy in the world or the smartest or anything, but I will walk into any room and I will walk out with your girlfriend. There's no doubt in my mind. And part and parcel of that has to do with a mindset that's really important that I was only able to recognize many years later. You're a tightrope walker. And various ideas and ideals can come into your mind before you walk that tightrope. You might say a lot of people that try to walk this tightrope, there's a decent chance that like oh, and you're hearing and thinking what you're saying. So all the negativity is contributing to the chances of you failing. And what do all great champions do? They psych themselves up. I'm going to get out there and I'm going to do. And who's listening? You are listening. I'm going to win it. I am the champion. I am the greatest. I heard Muhammad Ali doing that. Cassius Clay at that point. I still think it's a cooler name. I never heard a human being talk like that publicly. I am the greatest. I'll sting like a butterfly. Like, who is this guy? Actually he was stating fact. It's our problem that we thought, well, you're not supposed to say that. Why not? Why not? Set. Why not? Set greatness in front of you and then work towards achieving.
- [43:34]
A
Yeah, that's true.
- [43:34]
B
So I've spent time with Mike Tyson and, you know, I hope he considers me a friend. I consider him a friend. And when you listen to Mike's story, there's no logical reason in the world why he would become the most dangerous man who's ever been in the ring. Nobody. Yes, I know Foreman and everybody else. He's too short. His arms aren't long. He spoke like he hates it when people do that thing. All the negatives you can imagine except his unwavering belief in himself and the will to win. The will. Doctors still talk about people who are on the deathbed and they can't explain why a week later they walk up and walk out the hospital, live another 10 years. Except for the will to win. And there are other people who drop dead where they just give up. Yeah.
- [44:28]
A
How did you. How did you prepare your mind then or psych yourself?
- [44:32]
B
No preparation.
- [44:33]
A
When you go. When you went on stage though, did you prepare or.
- [44:36]
B
No, you just. The plane doors open, go. What do you got to lose in America? You cannot fail. You can't fail. If you lose all your money, you declare chapter seven or chapter 11 and you can start all over again. And when that first chick sick, would you like to go out with me? She says, no, too many fish in the sea. There's tall one's, short one's, fat one's, thin. That too. Just keep swinging that bat, you'll hit it. No means nothing.
- [45:09]
A
That's a good mindset.
- [45:11]
B
Well, what choice have you got? Yeah, as soon as you say no. As soon as you say, well, I guess I'll give up. You're done.
- [45:16]
A
Why do you think so many people though, live in self doubt or insecurity and don't go for their dreams?
- [45:23]
B
There's no reason for it.
- [45:25]
A
But why do you think so many people live in that space?
- [45:27]
B
Well, it's safer. You're people are lemmings. Because it's safer in numbers. You know, you don't want to be that one person who said, but that's what leaders are. The leaders are the ones. You know, Most people have a problem getting up on stage and speaking their mind because you will be judged. People don't like to be judged. Get over you. It's just like it doesn't matter. Like what? Not everybody likes Jesus either.
- [45:54]
A
Did you ever care about being judged or being not liked?
- [45:58]
B
Well, too much of myself.
- [46:01]
A
You think highly of yourself. It doesn't matter.
- [46:03]
B
Well, they're not qualified to have an opinion on yours truly. I'm qualified. I know where I've been, what I'm doing, what my dreams are, what I'm willing to work at. Anybody's other opinion is an opinion. At first glance, why do you think.
- [46:17]
A
So many people care about other people's opinions? Because you don't, it sounds like. But why do you think so many of the world.
- [46:24]
B
Precisely. I could give a Right.
- [46:27]
A
But why do so many people care about others?
- [46:29]
B
It's safer. It's safer to be in a group and, you know, when it's time to put Frankenstein on fire, when the guy didn't do anything, you know, there's a mob, you know, mob mentality. You don't even have to say anything. You can just let the mob carry you. It's tough to be that. But those are the leaders of the world.
- [46:53]
A
Yeah.
- [46:53]
B
And they don't have to be the most qualified. By the way, some of the people I see on television using. Christ, you know, they talk. They're hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Some of them are not very bright people, but they have this presence. If you take a look at the most powerful people in history, good and bad, they weren't super tall. They were usually pretty short guys.
- [47:29]
A
They had a presence. Excuse me, but they had a presence.
- [47:32]
B
Yes. Some on illogical belief in themselves.
- [47:37]
A
Yeah.
- [47:38]
B
Whether it's Caesar or Hitler or Napoleon, they have no right to have this, you know, and some of them are real bad guys, small people with. But on the inside, giants, giant bad guys and giant good guys.
- [48:00]
A
I'm curious. With all the, you know, experience the travel, the people you've met, who in your mind is one of the greatest musicians or the greatest leaders in the world that you've met or seen? Let's talk. Keep it in the music world. Who's in the top in the music world that you're like, man, that guy or that gal's got it, or that group has got it. Beyond yourself and kiss, who else. Who have you seen or met or watched that you're like, wow, they really have it.
- [48:28]
B
Well, clearly the Beatles are beyond, above and beyond anything that anybody's seen in music over, oh, 200 years. Easily. Not since the Renaissance, which is how you say it, not the Renaissance. You have to understand, they only existed seven years and they came from a place that was a pool filled with liver. Liver pool where nothing ever happened. High unemployment rate, no experience, no resume, no nothing. And yet I want to hold your hand what? She loves you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that last chord, that minor ninth is as sophisticated a chord if you know about music. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That thing is almost like a jazz chord. Unheard of in. In rock music. And. Okay, look, I'm going to give you something you'll be able to understand. Satisfaction is one of the great songs. It takes about 40 minutes, 40 seconds to get to the first thing. I can't get no yeah, yeah or anything. Sunshine of your love. I did it backwards. It's a. It takes about 50 seconds to get. I've been waiting so long and all that on and on and on. The Beatles. I just wrote a new song. What is it called? It's called Help. How's it go? It goes like this. Help. I need somebody. Help. Not even an introduction. Nothing. Got another one for you. What is it called? It's called Yesterday. How's it go? It goes like this. Yesterday. I got another one for. It's called Michelle. How's it going? Michelle? Got another one for you. It's called hey Jude. Not only does it be begin with hey Jude, the word hey, it's before the music. Before the music, yeah. Hey Jude. And then the chords come in. Those are what's called perfect songs. Not only that, but the title of the song is the first word of the song. It's the most memorable song and it's the last word in the song yesterday. The last song because I believe in yesterday. Who writes songs like that? It's undeniable. They're the writing them. McCartney especially, by far is the most successful songwriter in all of recorded history. There have been over a thousand different artists who've recorded just yesterday. Hey, Kristen, how's it tracking with Carvana Value Tracker? What else? Oh, it's tracking in fact value surge alert. Trucks up 2.5%, vans down 1.7. Just as predicted. So we gonna. I don't know.
- [51:45]
A
Could sell, could hold the power to.
- [51:48]
B
Always know our car's worth. Exhilarating, isn't it?
- [51:53]
A
Tracking Always know your car's worth with Carvana Value tracker. Did you get to spend some time with them?
- [52:02]
B
With Ringo?
- [52:04]
A
What was that like?
- [52:06]
B
Well, there are two stories. In the Cher days, she used to have these disco roller skating parties where all the celebrities would go and I. I didn't care. Not in. I mean, I appreciate you're lucky to be a celebrity, but. Oh my God, it's Ursula Andrews. I didn't care. I don't mean to be dismissive.
- [52:29]
A
Sure.
- [52:29]
B
Just. Oh, there's that person from that commercial TV show and I'm sitting. Because I didn't. You know, Jews on roller skates is hilarious. So I didn't. I just sat on the sidelines watching them. Sat on top of the bowling, anyway, on the side with my legs going like this. And as everybody's roller skating. And then I saw two teenagers coming towards me. So I got up because one of them's wearing a KISS T shirt with rhinestones. They're about 15. And they came up and once got. I'm a big fan of yours. You know, speak with an English accent. Oh, it's okay. Sure. Doing an autograph. And then I look up and in back of them, Ringo Star starts coming towards them. And I'm, you know.
- [53:20]
A
And you're big at this time. You're like, kiss is massive at this.
- [53:23]
B
Yeah, but the Beatles, I couldn't shine their shoes. So Ringo comes up, puts his hand, puts his arms around him and he says, I hope me boys aren't thinking. Ringo's sons are asking me for an autograph.
- [53:39]
A
Wow.
- [53:39]
B
To slap their little pups faces and said, how dare you talk to me. Your father's a beetle. It happened again. We were playing. Oh, one other time. We were having a party up in the Hollywood Hills. And Ringo had a LA manager at that time, guy named Eric Gardner. And Shannon, my wifey and I are saying, I'm eating salads. I hate salads. And I'm eating salads. And Ringo's coming up to say hello. And he sent me a birthday. Said, oh, happy birthday, Jade. If you can't tell me, can't say how much that means to me. And I'm eating stuff. So I give her the thing and he comes up to me and I'm much bigger than he is. So I didn't know what to do. So I picked him up. And his feet are dank. Ringo's about five, six. Five, I don't know, or maybe five. I'm six two. So I picked him up, you know, because I wanted to hold. I don't know what else to do. I didn't want to shake his head more means. And I'm smiling. I didn't even remember what I'm talking. And he said, would you put me down? So I put him down and he walked off. All right. And I'm smiling, looking at Shannon. She goes, you got Godzilla size.
- [54:54]
A
Oh my gosh. Like salad in your teeth.
- [54:57]
B
Yeah, like a big thing sticking out. I'm like, his face is right here. And yeah, just get over yourself. No matter who you are, if you're the Pope, I Know you gotta poop just like I do. Right? Nobody's. I don't have that hierarchy thing. So I've met everybody from His Holiness to Dalai Lama to Presidents Clinton and Bush and everything. And they've achieved greatness in their field. But we all fart.
- [55:29]
A
Yeah. What do you. What have you learned about fame that you wish everyone knew?
- [55:36]
B
If you become famous, not always, but by and large makes a good living. The rest is how you can handle it. Or not. Because there are, I would say, lots of famous people, rappers, a lot of rappers who surround themselves with yes men and yes women. A posy. So that. And I admire rap, don't misunderstand. So that when you go someplace, you have that cushion of support. So it says, publicly, I am somebody. Whereas if you didn't have the fame, they wouldn't hang out. They're parasites and vampires. They're only around you because you have money and favor and they get free booze and free chicks and free. All that stuff. They're using you. You're using them also to say, look, I'm somebody. So why do rappers. A lot of rappers, some sports guys, why do they go to clubs with a group to advertise that there's somebody? I won't. I won't play that game. I drive here myself. I wipe my own ass.
- [56:52]
A
You have no pasta?
- [56:53]
B
Yeah.
- [56:53]
A
You came alone here.
- [56:54]
B
No, I'm just happy I can earn a living. A good living.
- [56:59]
A
Yeah.
- [56:59]
B
And the rest doesn't mean anything.
- [57:01]
A
Yeah. I mean, you've made a lot of money, though, at this point.
- [57:04]
B
What's a lot?
- [57:06]
A
Made a lot more. 99. More than most of people in America, probably. Right. Like the amount of money you've made.
- [57:11]
B
I would say that's true. 90 more. Yeah.
- [57:13]
A
So you've made a lot.
- [57:14]
B
What number is a lot? Because it's all relative, of course.
- [57:19]
A
What is driving you at this season of your life to make more money? What's driving you to make more money when you have made 99% more than.
- [57:26]
B
Most people as an athlete yourself, if you've broken the. If you're the fastest human being on two legs, and after all the cameras are out and the chicks are gone and the awards are gone and the money people, you're just there by yourself. Do you wake up at the crack of dawn the next day and try to break your own record? Yeah, of course. That's what made you a champion in the first place. So I'm going to be 76. I'm 75 now. I don't know about You. But the race is closer to being over than the beginning. I don't know about you, but when the. Looks like the race line, the finish line is coming. I run faster. Don't you?
- [58:09]
A
Yeah. To finish, finish strong.
- [58:11]
B
Yeah. What are you gonna do? Just. Or sit back and watch somebody else's ball game as they go by? Now, that's if you appreciate life, if you love life. Man, oh, man, I'm. I'm glad every day I can have a hot fudge sundae and a good back rub, a lap dance every once in a while, and then you die. That's all.
- [58:35]
A
That's it. Yeah.
- [58:36]
B
Yeah.
- [58:37]
A
Gene, this has been really powerful. We've been going for a while now. A lot of fascinating stories. I want to. I want to close with one final question with you. Before I ask the question, I want people to follow you. Gene Simmons on Instagram.
- [58:49]
B
Oh, I hate that.
- [58:52]
A
Where should we go follow you?
- [58:54]
B
Genesimmons.com okay, you can do Instagram, but my kids take care that I never go on.
- [58:59]
A
Okay.
- [59:00]
B
30 seconds of somebody watching. 30 seconds of somebody showing how they can pick their nose.
- [59:05]
A
And so GeneSimmons.com has got all your information because you're going. You're doing the solo tour. You got different stuff, different businesses, projects.
- [59:13]
B
Company, and all sorts of restaurant chains and a lot of stuff.
- [59:16]
A
Crushing it still. You're finishing. You're going strong. Go start strong and finish strong. This has been fascinating, interesting, but I have one final question for you, and that's. What's your definition of greatness?
- [59:30]
B
You will never reach greatness. You shouldn't think of it that way. The hunt is always what it should be about. Not the kill. Once you kill something or once you finish the. You know, it's fine, but it's fleeting. But when you. When your blood's pumping, your heart's pumping, and it's always about the hunt. That's what life is about. And I'd like to think the very last breath I take is going to be like, yeah, been there, done that. In fact, I know what it's going to say on my tombstone. Thank you and good night. Because I would imagine, too, lots of tombstones. I wish I coulda, woulda, shoulda, coulda, and all that stuff. No regrets, kissed a few girls, had a great family, made a good living, provided jobs for people, gave to charity stuff. I was good for this planet. I made the planet just a wee bit better than it was before I was here. In fact, wouldn't it be great if all of humanity and there's about 8 billion of us before we drop dead. If we could make the world just this much better times 8 billion, imagine the profound difference it would make. You don't have to give everything away, just little bits.
- [60:58]
A
Gene, thanks for the fascinating conversation. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy and if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life. But you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to make money easy easybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment. Moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening. Then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Summer's heating up and your snack game should too. Get My Mochi Ice Cream the ultimate summer snack. My Mochi is creamy ice cream wrapped in sweet dough for a bite sized treat that'll make you feel joyfully chill whether you're beachbound or backyard hanging. My Mochi hits the sweet spot with fun texture and bold flavors like strawberry, mango, birthday cake and cookies and cream. Summer snacking just got an upgrade. Look for the purple box of My Mochi at walmart or visit mymochi.com to find a store near you.